Red Dirt Catholics
Join Jayce, James and guests from "Red Dirt" Oklahoma as they discuss what evangelization and discipleship looks like in real life.
Red Dirt Catholics
Faith and Identity (ft. Sister Mary Michael Fox)
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Join Jayce and newcomer, Alex Sanchez, as they talk with Sister Mary Michael Fox, O.P., a member of the Dominican Sisters of St. Cecilia (Nashville) for more than 30 years.
Register now for the 2025 Discipleship Conference for the Archdiocese of Oklahoma City! This full-day, bilingual event will feature amazing speakers, breakout sessions, adoration, Mass, confessions, vendors and more at the Oklahoma City Convention Center on Saturday, August 9. Register now to get the early-bird price at OKDisciple.org.
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Links and other stuff from the show:
Pastoral Letter, "On the Unity of the Body and Soul:" archokc.org/pastoral-letters
Red Dirt Catholics Email Address: reddirtcatholics@archokc.org
The Book "From Christendom to Apostolic Mission" (Digital and Print): Amazon
The Social Dilemma: https://www.netflix.com/title/81254224
Daily Examen Prayer: https://bit.ly/309As8z
Lectio Divina How-To: https://bit.ly/3fp8UTa
Hey everybody and welcome back to Red Dirt Catholics. It's a pretty special day today. First of all, james Ryder is gone. He has taken a brief like he's not gone.
Speaker 1:gone he's taken a brief leave of absence to like be with his family and to as they're moving and during a time of transition. But James' loss is our gain because we have Alex Sanchez in the house. Alex, and we also have Sister Mary Michael Fox from the Dominican Sisters. They were so excited to have both of you guys here. Alex is now a member of Red Dirt Catholics and will be a regular contributor Wow.
Speaker 3:Thank you for the introduction. That was so warm, that was so kind. Yeah, I'm about a foot shorter than James Ryder and yet I hope to follow it in his greatness. And no, it's just, it's good to be here and I'm looking forward to the podcast regularly, but I'm also, in a special way, looking forward to today to dive into what Sister Mary Michaels is bringing to us. So that's great to be here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's awesome, sister Mary, had you been to Oklahoma before you were here for the Men's Conference?
Speaker 2:I had you been to Oklahoma before that no, just driven through it here and there, but that was the first time, I think, I've landed in Oklahoma, but I was really glad to be there. I got to see the Stanley Rother Shrine and related to Guadalupe Shrine. I was treated royally. Wow. Went to a great burger place famous but all I can remember was the burger. I don't remember the name, but the shake was really good.
Speaker 1:And Rachel Carribee, there's an entire sitcom episode and how I met your mother, the sitcom where it's the best burger in New York and they're desperately. They remember all these guys remember the burger but they don't know where it was and they keep going to all these different places and everyone keeps telling them no, I know where that burger is, as you describe it, and it's pretty funny.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you might have to have me back out, so I can try to go exploring.
Speaker 1:It's a little bit different exploring Oklahoma City. You definitely need some more transportation than New York City, but that is awesome. Sister, are you a sports fan at all?
Speaker 2:You know, I am actually Wow. Yeah just about any kind of a round ball that you can hit, kick, throw yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I grew up in a big family and lots of boys in the neighborhood, so Fascinating.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I assume that the I assume that you guys at the convent don't have direct TV or something like that, or subscriptions to NFL Sunday ticket, so you probably don't get to watch professional sports, All that often.
Speaker 2:Well, well, it depends who's playing. Hey, hey, hey sister's like not so fast.
Speaker 1:The Titans are on If Ryan Tannehill's on the TV, we're watching in Nashville baby.
Speaker 2:Maybe it's more if the New Orleans Saints are playing, because we got a lot of who-that people here and college ball. We do a lot of college ball. No, I would say, if it's on, we tend to watch it. Our local priors is a Steelers fan. I don't hold that against her, but it's charity above all things. But I'm a Ravens if I'm going to put myself someplace because of my home team, but at the end of the day I'm a cheesehead.
Speaker 1:Cheesehead.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you can't beat a franchise that's owned by the people.
Speaker 1:Yeah Right, like you can't beat that, alex. Do you know what a cheesehead means?
Speaker 3:I beyond the working definition of mine of someone who really enjoys cheese. I think it's Wisconsin, right yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wisconsin, there you go.
Speaker 2:Green pay packers, green pay packers yeah, I knew that for sure. I cheer for the people. That's great so sister.
Speaker 1:For the first year ever, our IT department started a fantasy football league for us here at the Chancery and the Pastoral Center, which has been really, really fun for all of us to just go out there and battle and then come Monday or Tuesday, come and rib the person that we just beat or mourn our loss. It's been an interesting time. It's Alex's first year getting after it and really hasn't followed sports a whole lot, but it's something that he's definitely gotten into. We all have that competitive spirit.
Speaker 3:I couldn't have named five players in the NFL in the last decade, basically before fantasy football. My whole life has changed. Why don't you do?
Speaker 2:fantasy fisherman or something like that.
Speaker 3:There you go, what's with the football, it's always football. I mean fantasy tennis. I would have done a better job probably, but it's been fun.
Speaker 2:Fantasy football Like fantasy pickleball.
Speaker 1:Let's start it up. Fantasy pickleball it's fun.
Speaker 2:It's the new thing.
Speaker 1:It is the new thing. I don't know If there was a league.
Speaker 1:I would probably watch it Fantasy pickleball. Yeah, I'm sure there's YouTube channels where they've made leagues and stuff, but recently we had a trade that was highly suspect. Alex has been trying to trade for and for all of you non-football fans out there. I'm sorry, I promise this will be quick, but Patrick Mahomes, who's the best quarterback in the NFL. He's been trying to trade our executive director, senior director Luis Soto, for him for ages, basically since the season started. Weeks, weeks, he's been trying to get a trade done. He's been offering him big, good trades where Luis is obviously the one winning. He just wants Patrick Mahomes on his team and Luis has just had none of it. He's like I'm not trading Mahomes without getting basically someone's entire roster, your entire roster, yeah, your entire roster.
Speaker 1:It's hysterical. I mean, yesterday, what if I did a fake trade with Luis where it looked like he was trading me this player for next to nothing, after Alex has worked so hard to try to get him this entire time, and what would happen? And so that's what I did. I let the entire league in on it. Before it all happened I was like, hey, this is a fake, don't freak out, I'm just trying to rib Alex and steal Mahomes from him and let him feel it for a minute, and we let him feel it for about 40 minutes after I made this trade for basically a kicker, for the quarterback essentially, which is just nuts to do in a fantasy football league, and Alex was just like what is happening right now, and I was so calm and composed and I handed it with charity.
Speaker 3:I have never typed faster into a chat. I mean, I was telling everyone. This is egregious. People were sending me GIFs, I was sending back GIFs and everyone's like are you mad? I'm like, I'm not mad, I'm absolutely livid.
Speaker 1:So it was a pretty good time. It was a good prank. Yeah, it was a good prank.
Speaker 2:Well, why don't you try after Brock Purdy, because he's really the hot guy now.
Speaker 1:That's what I'm reading.
Speaker 3:He is so hot right now he's the guy I know. That's what I'm reading. I still. It's been like five weeks of fantasy football. I've watched like one half, maybe a quarter, but I'm reading articles like nonstop on you know, fourth string wide receivers who may, you know, get one, throw a game, and I'm like, wow, you know it could be the next big thing. So I'm just so deep into it. Starting today, I'm resolved to step out of it. The Mahomes thing made me realize I'm a little bit too invested.
Speaker 1:My wife told me she was like hey, on Sundays, when fantasy football is running, you're a little bit checking your phone too, often is what she told me. I was like you know what? That's fair? We're gonna lock that up, that's good.
Speaker 2:Well, jase, you should have been in my talk, man, I could have helped you, yeah.
Speaker 1:I know.
Speaker 2:You could have really helped me.
Speaker 1:It would have been great, but I'm here now, I'm here to receive it firsthand and I'm excited. Sister, would you lead us in a prayer?
Speaker 2:Oh, be honored too, really, the name of the Father and of the Son, of the Holy Spirit. Amen. Oh, holy Trinity, father, son and Holy Spirit, we praise you, we bless you, we adore you. We thank you for creating us and your image and likeness, for redeeming us and for sanctifying us. We ask you just to continue to minister to our needs. I pray, especially for all of those who will listen to this podcast, that whatever is spoken or whatever words you inspire in my heart will touch their heart and their mind and just lead them closer to you, to give you glory through their lives and who they are and who you made them to be. And, mother Mary, we especially turn to you and ask for your intercession. Protect us all in your mantle of grace and bring us into your most immaculate heart, and we ask this with great confidence in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.
Speaker 1:Amen, amen, sister just tell us a little bit about you, some of your background and even some of the background of what prompted you to build this talk. What business does a Dominican sister have to give a talk on manhood?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I asked myself that too. Well, you know. So, sister Mary and Michael, I've been a sister for over 35 years. I always try to get away with the joke that I entered when I was 10 and some people believe it actually, but anyway, no, so I've been in the community for a good number of years. I'm the youngest of nine children, four older brothers, four older sisters.
Speaker 2:So you know kind of kind of plunky there at the end of the family grew up in Baltimore City so had just lots of, lots of boys in the neighborhood that I got to grow up with and be rough and ready with, and then I became a teacher and so you know, as a teacher working with junior high, especially my junior high boys that were just always in trouble with everyone else, and I just began to really look at them and try to help, minister to them and help them through that time. And I don't know, I guess I've always had a soft spot for men and trying to help them become just gentlemen, faithful, strong, sturdy. I can't explain it. I just had a lot of guy friends and they would ask me for advice and just found myself doing a lot of navigating their maturity in that way. But most recently in the past four, five years, I began working with some men in recovery and I think that's how I got discovered on a YouTube. I gave a talk to a group up in Franciscan University and I told the story of my fellas, the guys that I work with in recovery. And when I say I work with guys in recovery, what it was is that I was taking care of landscaping and it was getting to be a little too much, and so I tell the story.
Speaker 2:You know, I have the best husband in the world. I really do no offense to anybody else out there, but my guy is perfect and I just love everything about him. And Fed fell head over heels in love with the Lord Jesus and he's perfect. But when there's yard work to be done he doesn't show up. That's too good. I need a man. I need a man, please, lord.
Speaker 2:So I said a prayer and then I kind of went over his head to his dad, joseph, his foster father, and I just prayed. I said, st Joseph, I need some men to help me with this landscaping. And next thing, I know I've just got this team of guys. I mean there's a few things in between that, but these guys just started to come and help and as I started working with them and listening to their stories, I just learned more and more about the man's heart and the man's desire and what has gone wrong because of the world, the flesh and the devil.
Speaker 2:And because I was working so hard with these guys and remembering the boys that I taught and I just got more sensitive to their plight. Looking at my own brothers and just all the gifts they have and all the struggles they have, and it just pulls up my heart and I just wanted to speak well into the man's heart. So yeah, so I, before I came to Oklahoma, I did a test pilot of that talk because, you're right, like who am I? So my first group I knew we're going to at least hear me out because it was a group of seminarians, right?
Speaker 1:Hey, they got to be there. You know Well obedience baby. They have to love their sister. Exactly exactly.
Speaker 2:So I thought, well, I'm going to test this out, because, you know, if it's a disaster, it's just 12 guys, right, and they're seminarians, and so they're going to be like oh, sister, you know well, thanks for talking to us and just writing a lot of things.
Speaker 1:So anyway.
Speaker 3:I can't imagine.
Speaker 1:I can't imagine just like having to let a sister down gently because she did a terrible job. You know that sounds. That sounds like one of the worst things in the world that I would have to do of just like thank you, I would fake an injury.
Speaker 2:I hope they never give people a reason to do that.
Speaker 2:but so I gave the talk to these seminarians right, and so the title of that talk was you need to be a mama's boy. And I was just kind of playing with how they need to really put themselves under the blessed mother. And so I said to them I said, look, I've been praying about this and this is what came to mind. I always pray about my talks, by the way, I always, when people invite me, I'm like Lord, what should I say to these people? You know, sometimes they give me a theme, sometimes they don't, and this one I really didn't have. I could do anything, and this theme kept coming back. Talk to them about what it means to be a man, a gentleman, a Saint Joseph, a man of grace. Just lean in there, sister, here's your chance. These seminarians are going to be future priests and just tell them what is at stake and how much they need the blessed mother.
Speaker 2:So I wrote down some things that came to me and took it up to them, and they said, oh yeah, it worked, but you know, because they're seminarians, I thought, well, I'm going to try it again. So I had a retreat at our retreat house for guys that were coming and they were manly, I mean, they were bringing their chainsaws, they were cutting trees down, and I thought it was a Chriseo group. Yeah, it was a Chriseo group. And they said now, sister, will you give us a little talk, a little fervorino, after we do all this man work. And I thought man work, yeah, I'll try my talk out on you too. So same thing.
Speaker 1:Ah, some guinea pigs. Thank you, lord, this is nice.
Speaker 2:And I think at that time Ray Stevens had already invited me to this conference. And so the Oklahoma conference and men's conference. And so I went through the talk and I said to the guys it was a mixture. Well, they were all married men, but they were a mixture of ages, and one of them was a priest who I've known for years and just really admire him. And so I said the same thing Fellas, I would just want to talk to you about what it means to be a man, and I'm going to try to get away with this because you know, I'm a nun. And they laughed.
Speaker 2:And so after the talk, at one point in the talk, they were looking at me and you could have heard a pin drop. And so I thought, oh, I'm just dying in the water here. They're not liking this at all, you know. And so I stopped and I said is this making any sense? And they said, absolutely. Is there any more? And I said, yeah, I've got two more points. You just did the first two. Wow. And at the end of it I said now, guys, be honest with me, because I'm about to go to Oklahoma in three months and stand on the stage in front of a thousand men, and at that point I had discovered that I was the first woman invited, so that wasn't in the initial invite that you hadn't had a woman there before. Sly, sly sly.
Speaker 1:Hey, ray knows how to make an invite and knows how to get a. Yes baby. Ray knows what he's doing.
Speaker 2:Oh, he sure did it. He sure did it. He said I was afraid you'd say no. I said well, I probably would have contemplated it. So I said to the guys, the Chrissie group, and I said just let me know. And they actually they said no, take it on, take it on. So when I showed up at Oklahoma, right, I had the seminarians who were like, yeah, this was good. I had the Chrissie group that said, oh no, it works. And so basically I said, okay, blessed mother, we're going in, we're just going to shoot from the hip and we're going to be very honest. And you know how much my heart is for men to be the man of God that they're really created to be and with God's grace they can be and the world needs them to be. And so I'm going, I'm going and I'm just going to speak with confidence and honesty. And the reaction was really beautiful.
Speaker 2:So there were men that came up to me afterwards, young and old, with tears in their eyes and said I so needed to hear that message, sister, and so I just give it to the Lord, you know. So there I am. What's my authority, God?
Speaker 3:Pretty solid answer you know pretty hard, pretty hard to refute that.
Speaker 1:I mean, you could also say well Jesus is my husband. So you know, I know a thing or two.
Speaker 2:I know a thing or two about. But anyway, so yeah, that's what got me in there. And you know, oklahoma was a great experience for me. Even the tornado, that was a great experience for me. Driving on the highway there that Sunday night, oh my God. You know that while I was there, that was the only thing I was worried about going to Oklahoma, about.
Speaker 1:Was it tornado?
Speaker 2:Was a tornado, and sure enough sure we're on the highway.
Speaker 3:It was a 50-50 shot and it was going to happen.
Speaker 2:Oh boy. Yep, yep, we pulled off into the hospital there and it was exciting. I'll never forget Oklahoma.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So it's so funny watching out of towners experienced tornadoes Like Alex and I both went to the University of Oklahoma and like when you would have someone who was there from Virginia and it's the end of the year and the tornadoes start coming around. It's just hysterical to watch how the fear you know and like how actually afraid they are of what's happening, when this is just something that we experience over and over again. Like people make games out of it. We've adopted storm chasers as our favorites. It's like a sporting event really for us.
Speaker 3:Yeah, people from out of town get under the sink and then people from Oklahoma go outside and they drive closer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they want to go see it. We have a friend. We have a friend, connor RIT guy. He's a storm chaser, he loves chasing it. You know driving everywhere in that Ford Explorer.
Speaker 2:Yeah well, I have a whole new appreciation for you folks.
Speaker 1:You know, it's just like you get used to something and you know, I even had a moment where, like their tornado was on like a somewhat trajectory towards our house and like odds are still that it's going to go one way or the other and not hit. But it was close enough for me even, as in Oklahoma. I was like all right, Danielle, we're going to drive down the street over to Grandma's and get underneath and my wife is just like. My wife is like way more steely-eyed than I am on it. She was like it's not going to hit us, I'm not waking up, I'm not going, I'm not coming. I was like well, okay. Then I grabbed my son and we start heading out and she's like fine, I'll come it was hysterical.
Speaker 1:So, sister, why don't you walk us through some of this elixir that the men have, just like that men have?
Speaker 2:like really appreciated hearing.
Speaker 2:Oh well, yeah, and I think, alex, you were there. So if there's anything that you think I missed, go ahead and jump in and feel free to comment. I'll just give a little pause so for our listeners, who maybe were there and they just want to hear it again for some reason, but for those who were not, I studied John Paul II. He talks a lot about the theology of woman, the theology of man and so that God has created man and woman to be complimentary, you see, and in that he speaks about kind of a feminine genius.
Speaker 2:We've heard that and I believe the masculine genius is the same thing.
Speaker 2:So when you think genius, we're not talking about Albert Einstein, we're talking to kind of like the genus at the heart, an ontological way of being, like at my very core of myself. Who am I as woman, who are you as a man? And it's that particular core that God is wanting to speak to and pour His grace into that you can become the full person that he's made you to be. So what I noticed about fellows and I just got four points I'm sure there's more out there that you think, but when I watch guys and work with them, I notice so every man has been created to be a provider, a protector, a thinker and a doer. So these were just kind of how I organized my talk. That doesn't mean that women don't provide, that they can't protect, that they don't think and they don't do. We do that too, but there's something about the masculine way of being that really speaks to those particular qualities, right, would you say, alex. I mean, I think that's what we work.
Speaker 3:So this is the first time. Your talk was the first time I'd heard anyone talk about the masculine genius.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I haven't heard someone say that.
Speaker 3:It was kind of groundbreaking. I'll share it later on, after you get through some of the points, but there were some really, really moving parts of what you shared. But it was the first time I've heard anyone speak or read anywhere about the masculine genius particularly moving, and so, yeah, I'm just excited to get to unpack it.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I'm not in any kind of movement or anything about that and my degree is not in that, it's in catachetics. So I'm usually working with children and teaching children, but again, just what the Lord gave me in prayer and then working with the guys. So when you look at Adam, the first man God created, and he's the provider, right, he's supposed to take care of the garden and to have the food, the house and the paycheck, and just the man will take care of his family. It's just written in their DNA and it's what makes it so difficult when men can't work or men lose their job and aren't able to really be the one to take care of in that way. Right and again, it doesn't mean that the woman can't work. I'm not advocating for any kind of that stuff, but a woman can be at home taking care of the children. It's not hitting her existential being to not be out there in the work force.
Speaker 2:But I do believe that men have a sense of I have to take care of my family and that's a good thing. That's a good thing. Adam's taking care of the garden, you're taking care of your family, you're making your living, bringing that home. You're proud of it. It's a good thing, and what I find, though, with men is that that can then become their identity. So it's no longer my. Work from God, like St Joseph, is to provide. You know, to take care, provide, but now it's who I am. It's becoming my shingle that I hang out right. I'm the dentist, I'm the doctor, I'm the Fortune 500. And I watch a lot of men trip up in that quest to make the next bracket of money to the detriment of their family. So this provider that's written into your being goes overboard and you don't know when to stop right. Always check in the phone, always check in the Wall Street Journal, always check in the stocks, always check in the fantasy football. I mean, like what is this?
Speaker 3:Oh gosh I know people just like that. I know people just like that.
Speaker 2:I do too? I don't know, but we're not gonna let anybody out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, let's just move on from there.
Speaker 2:So there's this total preoccupation with having to make the next level up, right, right, and this has caused a lot of harm in our families, in our children need dad around, they need them, and so to provide isn't just to provide for the next best car or the next best house, but it's to do what needs to be done, but then to know when it's enough so that I have time for my wife and time for my children and time for my church, even my community, and so, yeah. So that's was one of the things that I just kind of put out there and challenged the men at the conference to really look at and examine. I can't speak for anyone, fellas. It's not like I'm watching guys who have a lot of money and saying, oh, you're a problem. No, I mean I'm kind of grateful there are men with money because they take care of my sisters. I mean we live because of benefactors. It's not that. It's not that, it's being able to have it in balance.
Speaker 2:And looking at the rest of my schedule, and is my work, my God, is that becoming my benchmark of success? Right, benchmark of success, right, I am who I am is how much I make. And it scares me because I watch fellas then crash and burn or lose their peace and their family. And yeah, I think one fellow right now is a dear friend of mine and he's just skyrocketed in his company, skyrocketed and we talk about it and I pray for him and just kind of let's stay grounded and thank God he's like brother to me and he's open to that conversation. So what do you think, alex? Any comment on that?
Speaker 3:Or I mean, I don't wanna just I think the part about preoccupation is really what kind of set out to me with that? So it's like the aspect of being a provider and that it's good. It's a good thing, like you said. It's a wonderful thing, but that it gets lost, that I get lost, that we get lost, that we're searching for the next best thing, like a restlessness and needing to seek the next best thing and being preoccupied. And I was just thinking about that when you were talking of how that starts so subtly. It's like I become preoccupied and in my desires and my imagination and then my free time and then what I'm reading and what I'm listening to and just thinking how, when I'm preoccupied with the next best thing, it slowly takes over these other faculties and I don't know if I have space, like for God from a relationship with him. But the preoccupation in combination with providing it makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's cool to think about the providing as like the genius part of it right, like that it is that that ability to persevere, to keep moving, to keep going, especially say you're in the antithesis of that, the opposite, and your family was struggling and you had to do anything and everything to like put food on the table and provide, like we're built to do that, but sometimes and so that's what that part is for, for that side of it. But I wholeheartedly agree and feel like and feel called out in a lot of ways. I've just thought about, like when I'm in the job, I'm really trying to accomplish something and it can become insanely like preoccupying because we have that tendency towards like this is the goal, this is where I'm running towards, and there is like the beauty is that we can keep going and.
Speaker 1:But it can be really challenging. It can be a challenge to like stop that train. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I'm glad, jc, that you circled back with that, because again, it is the masculine genius, right? It's who God made you, and we don't ever want to undo what God made. We just wanna put that nature under his authority and let his grace permeate that okay, Because it's true.
Speaker 2:Again, I know so many men who did just what you said did anything to make sure that the family was taken care of, and it's just beautiful, just beautiful. And on the flip side, I have come in contact with some young men who it's beneath them to do certain work and I'm like, no, no, actually providing for your family is the greatest, most heroic thing you could do. And so, for a man, work if it's for the right reason, right. If it's for my family, it's all good and I'll do anything and that's what nobles it if you will, so yeah. So I guess when I pointed out, I have a lot of admiration for guys who have done just hard things for their families, and it's beautiful, so yeah.
Speaker 3:I think, too, the other part that you mentioned with providing was because I've known other men who have lost their job or been in between jobs and how difficult that is for them, for their identity, for their sense of value and worth. And it makes sense in this context. It makes sense of it's not just like it's easy to be like don't give up, just keep trying, keep applying places or whatever, pick yourself up. But when I think about how it really is an innate part of being a man and how there's a part of you not being met and something that's just feels like a loss, that makes sense, that that's difficult, that's really a difficult thing, so thanks for sharing that.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And the one thing again. So Satan gets into our good and turns it right. He can't create, he can only distort, and that was kind of one of the messages I kept saying to the gentleman at the conference is that it's a distortion of this great gift. So, yeah, so the provider, and really closely attached to that is this idea of the protector, that the man does have this particular spiritual DNA to protect, right To lay his life down, which is just always so fun to watch. You even see it in little boys, you know, when I was teaching a little children and had a bag that I was trying to lift and this little little guy, I got it, sister, I got it. I'm like you're right, you got it.
Speaker 2:And so one thing that we often don't do for young boys is let them be the hero, right, let them take care of, do hard things. They wanna do hard things, they're made to do hard things and we often do it all for them and it just shuts them down. They stop trying, they stop trying. And so one of the things that I just really tried as a teacher was to always find a way that my gentleman, regardless of what age they were, could do hard things for me, for the classroom, for the school, for the other girls in the classroom. I remember a group of fifth grade boys. Do I have time to tell a little story? This is one of my favorite stories. So I was teaching fifth grade and I've taught all grades and this particular year I was kind of downshifting from a really busy assignment and I had been a principal at some place and anyway. So I get fifth grade and it's like a sabbatical right for me.
Speaker 2:It's just a sabbatical and I'm finally older than most of my parents. As a matter of fact, in this year I was older than all my parents, and that's lovely, because you can kind of give them a little wisdom, and so anyway, so I've got this group of boys and we're playing flag football. We're playing football on the playground and we got called out Not allowed to play tackle football. And of course I'm like, really, no, no, no, it's against the school rule. Okay, well, we have no flags. I'm like, well, we gotta get some flags. And so I said to the boys well, what are we gonna do? We need some flags. And so we gotta raise some money. And so they were brainstorming about different ways to raise money and they're like we could do a bake sale. I said, well, the girls could do a bake sale, but what can guys do?
Speaker 2:How can guys can't bake, please don't I don't want anyone to think that I'm just pigeon-holding men and women. I'm not. But there are things that guys do that it's a good thing. And so one of them said well, we could carry the girls' books and they could give us a little donation. And I thought, now you're thinking like a guy because your body is built Anyway. So we raised money and they carry. I said to let her home to the parents, told everybody what was going on. The guys were wanting to raise money and here's what they're gonna do. They're gonna carry the girls' book bags, which were really too big for fifth grade girls.
Speaker 1:They were what are fifth grade girls totin' in them bags these days?
Speaker 2:Oh, it's awful. So the boys had their bags and had the girls' bags. It was just so lovely. But the crown of that event now listen to this fellas. So this is how I knew that I had really spoken into these boys about being a protector and a man who can take care of is. There was one little girl who didn't have money to pay she wasn't ever doing that because her family didn't have the money and one of my fellas said I'll carry it anyway. Yeah, how about that? That's the good stuff.
Speaker 1:I love that. I'll carry it anyway.
Speaker 2:So this thing about guys to protect and take care of, it's a beautiful, beautiful quality that you have. You really do, and to allow you to do that right, to hold the door right, to just do kind, gently things like that, it's what? Yeah, it's what our Lord, he laid down his life for his bride, the church Jesus did. He laid down his life and you fellows are capable of that, as we've already mentioned just really heroic death to self when the family needs you, when the church needs you, when your wife needs you. I think, fellas, if we don't help men to recover some of this, this steel, I can die for you, I can purify my desires for you. You know we're gonna continue to have men who just act out on their animal instinct of passion and rage and domination, right. So that's what Satan does. Satan kind of lifts up this man strong, tough, and kind of makes you like a caveman.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, a brute, a bully.
Speaker 2:You're no fun to be around like that. So it's a gentle strength, the gentle strength.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So you should see, Alex, sometimes he'll just come stomping in and just like he won't even say any words anymore.
Speaker 3:I'll just lift your desk.
Speaker 1:He just picks up a chair and shows me his disgust and walks out, you laugh.
Speaker 2:but you know you've met fellows like that right? Yeah, we have. We see it on the news all the time these young men.
Speaker 3:I was thinking about how these things can be developed in your prayer and in your experience, and seeing fifth grade boys and high schoolers and then men in recovery, and then it's like the progression of desire or the loss of these almost instinctual things that have been placed in us, and I was thinking like, so, what so with being a provider, and then what we lose is we might lose the sense of actually who we are in our full identity or we start to become preoccupied with the next best thing.
Speaker 3:And so then I'm thinking about, with protector level kind of what goes wrong, what do we lose or what gets confused or what gets distorted. And then the thought or two that I had was maybe it can become insensitive, like we're no longer vigilant of what needs protecting or what's worth protecting. Maybe and I was thinking about that in the context of the story of like the reason it makes that story so heroic is like the boy still saw the value of protecting her, he still saw the goodness of doing it, even though she couldn't pay. And I was wondering if you had any other thoughts of what becomes lost or distorted in that initial good thing within us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I think Satan takes it to another extreme too, where you're actually not able to do the hard thing when you need to. Yeah, so there are times when the man of the family, the man of the house, has to speak to his teenage girl, daughter.
Speaker 3:Yes, it's so true.
Speaker 2:About modesty, wow, about dating, and in a healthy way, in a pure way, in a manly way, to put parameters around what she's doing, what she's listening to, who she's hanging around with, right. So sometimes daddies can be too soft, sometimes, oh yeah, too passive, even with their wives. I always think about Adam and Eve. And well, where was Adam when Eve showed up with her Apple and said, hey, k, let's take a bite? Like what he should have said was no honey, I don't care what your new friend says, we're not eating an apple. God said no, right, I mean, he should have stood up against her. That would have been the right, strong, protective thing to do, to say no in a way. That's clear, firm, gentle. So yeah, men can become insensitive, they can get caught up in again. Well, sometimes, this protective aspect, I often wonder if that's a lot of the body worship that happens with men. You know they've got to get all these muscles and I've got to be so whatever.
Speaker 2:I'm not sure. I mean, I'm not a guy, so I can only go so far with why you do what you do. It's a mystery. I don't always know why you do what you do. I'm just noticing on the outside.
Speaker 1:Hey, I think there are. I think a solid. Sometimes the best advice can come from outside.
Speaker 2:You know, when it comes to us fellas, yeah, so the protector gets twisted in being insensitive and actually I often wonder if that's a little more with the whole thinker aspect. But I was gonna go there with the thinker aspect of it.
Speaker 1:But yeah, you got like insensitive bully or you got you know, passive coward is kind of like the two Gumby yeah.
Speaker 3:Gumby yeah yeah, there's nothing worse than that that example of the father with the teenage daughter, and that there's such a sense of like the opposite of like feeling empowered, feeling like he has the ability to speak into her life is just like. Well, I've seen that. So much the passive kind of like well, it's not really my place or I don't know, almost like has to relinquish that aspect of protection. That's spot on. That's spot on.
Speaker 2:No, no, and fellas really those of you who are listening, especially if you've got young girls, just stay in that course of. They love their daddy and their daddy can say, good, hard things, strong, hard things. Put that parameter up Again. It's part of the protection. So you are your daughter's protector and I remember my dad just kind of stepping in sometimes and just remember he used to say to me remember you're a lady, remember you're a lady and make sure every boy treats you that way. Well, yeah, I mean I wasn't a perfect kid but boy, the boys knew, don't mess with me on some things because I held myself up very high in that way.
Speaker 2:My dad spoke that into my heart yes, yeah. And again, if you, yeah, anyway, yeah. So, sister, that's a whole nother topic really.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sister, tell us about how smart we are, please.
Speaker 2:You are so smart. You're stinky smart. How good of a thinker.
Speaker 3:I am. That's what I want to hear. This next portion you can just talk directly to me, you can just be you and I. Wow, that's hysterical.
Speaker 2:It'll be there, if you all have ever seen. So there's a guy on YouTube. I always forget his name, but he's got this little show. He gave it. It might have been a TED Talk men's brains and women's brains you know, and oh, it's brilliant, and how men's brains are just really tight, compartmentalized. Right, he's got a box for work. He's got a box for the lawn. He's got a box for his mother-in-law.
Speaker 1:It never opens up. I call it waffle brain. Oh yeah, same thing.
Speaker 2:Every compartment right. So there it is, and they don't but a woman's brain. Everything's interconnected, you know so. But it's true. The men typically go A, b, c, d right, and it's nice to work with them because you can pretty much anticipate where they're gonna go and they've thought it all through and it's a nice map to follow. Unfortunately, when that A, b, c D gets in its particular position, it's hard for them to deviate right.
Speaker 1:Because they make it by now. I don't know what you're talking about.
Speaker 3:Well, I do, Jase, I've seen it in your life.
Speaker 1:No, I know exactly what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1:My wife like like no, no, like I get to bring up an example where I was supposed to meet. I was supposed to meet, yeah, I'm gonna tell him myself. I was supposed to meet somebody recently. You know, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna head to this and do this, and then I'm gonna go to do this and this is the plan. And I'm not a plan deviator, I'm a plan improviser when, like, outside forces come in, but I'm not gonna just deviate because it feels like fun or something like that. And so, like one of the things like fell through and I was like, oh, I can't meet with this person. Well, on to the next thing, you know, and my wife was like hey, hey, like we don't have to do that, exactly, exactly, let's have a conversation and yeah, and that's really real. So it's just a thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're the steady Eddie that we can count on, but sometimes that gets locked into like a black and white. There is no middle ground. You know there is no conversation here. This is the way it is. And of course you know, when you look at our Lord, the way he worked with people was very different according to who they were. You know, now we're not gonna say Jesus didn't have a plan for our redemption. He's got a plan right. But when he meets the different the apostles, he deals differently with all the apostles, differently, because of who they are. You know, he just everybody's kind of on their own and it's just a beautiful way of being able to read the situation and discern right. It's that gift of wisdom and inspiration working with the Lord. What does this person need? I've got my plan, but what do they need? And that's where I think the sensitivity comes up.
Speaker 2:Alex I think when men are insensitive, it's because they're not allowing any other influence into their reason. That has already worked things out. It seems that way to me.
Speaker 3:Gotcha.
Speaker 2:I don't know why else you guys are so brutally honest and sensitive at times.
Speaker 3:Oh man so you know I you always have to be reasonable.
Speaker 3:I mean this is making a lot of sense to me. You know what's interesting? So I just finished my degree in counseling and I'm starting to work as a counselor one day a week and it's a female dominated workplace, you know. And why? It's because it's that lack of feeling. Honestly, it's like the lack of, or sometimes like lack of sensitivity and so from guys. And so I'm realizing that what helps me become more empathetic is is approaching it from an intellectual point of view. So it's like it's helpful for the person when I'm empathetic and understanding that and unpacking that well, why is it helpful From an intellectual point of view helps me be more empathetic. So, just to reiterate your point, it's true, it's like what helps me to be more sensitive is to realize the intellectual implications of being sensitive.
Speaker 1:But it's right, it's an eight, it's 100% true, it's an eight, or it's just like school of hard knocks in certain ways, right, yeah, like I mean we learned this in our marriages, alex, like that very first time after we're married, where we just decide whatever my wife is feeling doesn't seem rational and we state that it might not be rational.
Speaker 3:Man, I don't know how many nights you still have that scar. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, and that's really true, it's just a terrible idea.
Speaker 2:And yet, and yet the woman so needs the man to. Really, because the intellect is the driving force of our being. Emotion's out of control and if I'm always following my emotions, it's a disaster. And I'm not just saying that because I'm a Dominican, but the intellect really needs to be brought into me.
Speaker 1:She stole my joke. I had it.
Speaker 2:It was locked and loaded.
Speaker 1:Funny, it was locked and loaded. Man, I was ready. That's hysterical.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the brain is a terrible thing to waste. I remember those commercials, so we need you desperately. And so this very first time I've done a talk like this, it was on women. So I looked at the four things about women and what's gone wrong. It's called Mother Eve, mother Mary, mother Eve and who we follow in Mother Eve or Mother Mary, and so I make fun of my own gender, of how women can get all confused, and emotions is one of them where we just are wild and we need someone to help us, and that's the gift of a good marriage that can at least be honest with. Okay, let me think about this. And well, let me feel about this, and maybe we'll come together and how we're gonna work it out.
Speaker 3:But no, we need you. I sense a part two to this. That sounds very, very intriguing, but no, I'll say, with all of this there's something, and wait to the end, but there's something so affirming about you just highlighting the goodness of all of these things, very affirming.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, no, no, you guys I do. I have a very, very I think I do. Someone has told me once that I have a charism for working with men and I'm just like, well, I don't know. I love my brothers, I love my nephews, the boys that I've always taught. I actually have always felt sorry for them because I thought no one's understanding you, no one's working with you as you are, who you are, my dream.
Speaker 2:I remember telling my nephew, when he was in the third grade and just ready to drop out of school. I remember saying Alex, if I had all the money in the world, I'd buy a school and it would be just for boys, just boys only. Would you like that? And of course, he's got tears in his eyes. He's like I would like that, you know, because it's just, we don't know how we keep wanting to put the boy in a particular box and he's got his own gifts. You've got your own gifts, fellas. It needs grace, just like mine does. Right, you need grace, but I wouldn't want St Joseph to be anybody except who St Joseph was, and I wouldn't want Jesus to be anyone except who Jesus is right. And yeah, no, I hope it is affirming to you because it's challenging and affirming right, that's what we do for each other, help each other.
Speaker 2:So let me just let me get to the last point before you have some more questions, because I do think the last point is actually the aid for helping it. All right, so, provider, protector, the thinker, you know. Then there's this aspect of the doer, so you have been created with kind of the sense of acting upon the world. The woman's body is a receiver. This is what John Paul II has pointed out to us. You know the reception, and it makes us easy to receive others, to receive God, and so.
Speaker 2:But you have kind of a, I'm going out, I'm gonna go do right, and what Satan has done with it, and that's a good thing. I mean, I'm so glad that men were coming to my place to work for me. I mean to work. They wanted to work and that's what they wanted to do. They didn't want to sit around and talk, they wanted to work, and I'm so grateful because we had a lot of work to do. But with that, with that can kind of get into a with two things, there can be a control factor, right. So now I'm gonna, I'm gonna control my circumstances, I'm gonna control my environment, I'm gonna control my life, I'm gonna control you and that's a disaster. Right Cause cause. Men hit a wall really hard with their family, with their work, with their life. The guys in recovery like they couldn't control their addiction and it wasn't until they let go of that and recognized and claimed I can't, god can and I'm ready to let them that their life opened up to freedom.
Speaker 2:Do you see so this need to really surrender is so much harder for men than women. We're designed to surrender. You're designed to take over and control. Yeah, to resist, to take over, to fight Right right, and so what that also does is it makes it difficult for you all to rest and receive.
Speaker 2:And so that's where contemplative prayer becomes so essential. You almost have to schedule your prayer time, right. You just think it through. Look at your schedule. Here's your. Put it in and then sit with the Lord and don't take your rosary, don't take your all the things you're gonna do in holy hour. Just be with God and ask Him to transform you and fill you so that these other areas of your genius can come to their fruition, their fullness, their beautiful, their handsome completion, if I dare say it that way. Does that make sense so?
Speaker 1:Makes complete sense. We just, on a few of our previous episodes, we went through Wilfred Stenson's book Into your Hands, father, which is specifically on that surrender thing, and man, I just, I just hate it. It no, it's just like so. No, it's so good and it's so necessary, but I just look at it and see the hardness for it.
Speaker 1:One of the things that I have found that helps me be more in a space of like to, to shift out of warrior mode, especially when it comes to like in how I'm relating with the Lord and how I'm talking with Him, when I'm praying, my holy hour and things like that is like I try to be as like, like the child, like aspect of it when Jesus tells us to be a child and like I'm not I'm not ontologically different or anything like that, but like this is just my father and I wanna, and I wanna be a child to Him and like I'm just like staying still and letting Him perceive me and look at me and just like wanting to be near.
Speaker 1:Be near the Father Is one of the has been one of the best images like in my mind or like mindsets that I can like put myself back into when I'm thinking about how I just wanna rage against whatever problem or how I wanna dive after it and just conquer it myself, and like the operative word that every spiritual director I've ever had said man, he just said myself a lot there and I'm like, yeah, and it's just like I just have to give and let God and receive in that way. So I love that. I love that we're doers Like I love being able to do things, but even more, it's just so much more important to be able to surrender and to receive, especially from our Lord.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I just love that you're saying that. Yeah, excuse me, I didn't mean to cut you off, but it was one of the things that I watched Carl Anderson do in the Knights of Columbus, like I watched him transform that whole spirituality of the Knights, cause the Knights are doers, they're doers and they have done amazing things all over the country. I mean, there's lots of groups, but I'm just gonna use the Knights as an example, and I remember Carl Anderson beginning to challenge them to be more prayers, to become men of prayer as much as work, and I believe that they're on that beautiful path to balance in their own life. This work of prayer, at least, I attributed to Carl Anderson just listening to different talks that he was doing. I think that's what he was calling them on to be men of prayer.
Speaker 2:And yeah, and sometimes that I think about my Holy Father, st Dominic, and Holy Father Francis, both contemporaries, great men of the church, men who did tremendous work in the church. Right, you wanna talk about doers? They both had a posture of prayer that was really just this orons with their arms wide open, and what that was is the surrender. So in their body, their body was postured in such a way that was open and vulnerable to God in prayer and in that stance God was able to fill them with the grace they needed to do to provide, protect, to think, I mean it just brought their manhood to the fullness.
Speaker 2:Both of those guys are my heroes.
Speaker 3:I love that. I love the kind of the understanding, the vision of, like it's in prayerful surrender and in receiving and being open to the Lord. That would help bring these other things fully alive. It's not the loss of those things, it's not like it's not like if I surrender I just become obsolete, I become ineffective, like it's like these other parts of me become fully like greater. Yeah, as they're meant to be. I love it, but it is hard.
Speaker 2:It's hard hard to surrender. Of course it's hard. That's how you're gonna be a hero.
Speaker 3:Man, the physical aspect you're talking about, like being open with your hands, with your arms. I've seen that being important in my life. I've seen like sometimes I'll cross my arms and I'll be like well, that doesn't seem like.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna have to dialogue.
Speaker 3:Like if I was talking to someone like that, I'd be like, wow, you're not hearing a word I'm saying. So that has been important in my life. But, and also I don't know what this would tie in. But I think over the last month or so I've been on a little kick of like going on an early morning walk and praying, and it kind of came from like the like Genesis and like the word walking in the breezy time of the day and I was like, oh, like that'd be nice to like go walk while I pray, and so it's kind of been like a maybe a happy medium or maybe just maybe it's a baby step towards just sitting and resting in prayer. But it's been like this, the slight aspect of doing something still, and yet the interior posture is like to try to put me in a place of receptivity too. But that also was kind of coming up as you were sharing that.
Speaker 2:And that's important now, because it's a great point that you pointed out, because, yeah, I mean, the idea of prayer is just making myself available to the Lord, and walking can actually still the interior life, right, and that's what you're looking for is the interior life to be still so? Yeah, that's good stuff, fellas good stuff, great stuff.
Speaker 1:Sister, it's been absolutely wonderful having you.
Speaker 1:So go and cast, talk about all this, like I feel like we could I wanna go back to half of these points again. So we'll have, we will have you back again. You can, we would love that. And it's been yeah, it's been a great meeting you and discussing these things with you and like I'm just so thankful for the Lord's ministry and like into your own life and your own, like your own ability to respond to His grace and your work with man, cause it's just really, it's really great to have your insights and your thoughts and your affirmation as been as just absolutely wonderful. So it's been great. So thank you for joining us today.
Speaker 2:Thanks, chase, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 3:Thank you so much, great for my fellas All right very good.
Speaker 1:Well, this has been Red Dirt Catholics. We'll see you next time. Everyone love you.