Red Dirt Catholics
Join Jayce, James and guests from "Red Dirt" Oklahoma as they discuss what evangelization and discipleship looks like in real life.
Red Dirt Catholics
What is Leadership? (ft. Luis Soto)
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Luis Soto, director of Evangelization and Catechesis for the Archdiocese of Oklahoma City, sat down with Jayce and Alex to talk about leadership.
Register now for the 2025 Discipleship Conference for the Archdiocese of Oklahoma City! This full-day, bilingual event will feature amazing speakers, breakout sessions, adoration, Mass, confessions, vendors and more at the Oklahoma City Convention Center on Saturday, August 9. Register now to get the early-bird price at OKDisciple.org.
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Links and other stuff from the show:
Pastoral Letter, "On the Unity of the Body and Soul:" archokc.org/pastoral-letters
Red Dirt Catholics Email Address: reddirtcatholics@archokc.org
The Book "From Christendom to Apostolic Mission" (Digital and Print): Amazon
The Social Dilemma: https://www.netflix.com/title/81254224
Daily Examen Prayer: https://bit.ly/309As8z
Lectio Divina How-To: https://bit.ly/3fp8UTa
So a quick update about fantasy football, because that's what all of you are here for, because we just did a podcast, you know, two months ago, with sister Mary Fox, alex, what's we're fit. We're one week away from the playoffs. What's happening?
Speaker 2:well, I'm still kind of in shock. It's my first season to do fantasy football and by my screen time.
Speaker 2:It might be my last, but what I've learned from from the people in the league, including our guests here, is that everyone ends up in one of two bowls, either the championship, or the, the one that's known as a toilet bowl, and so I have been designated and chosen by the fantasy football league and the number of wins that I have accumulated to make it to the championship, to make it to the playoffs, yeah well you're not in the champ, maybe I'm, maybe I'm assuming too much, but at least the playoffs.
Speaker 2:And I don't know that the same can be said for everyone for not everybody.
Speaker 1:Not everybody here is destined as of right now. So we're super lucky to have our boss. Yeah, luis Soto. I think I'm your director as my friend, but yeah, he's our friend too, and so you need to. You know, tighten the screws, alex, on those podcasts. Our bosses here.
Speaker 3:So okay, anyway anyway.
Speaker 1:So we get there. So I'm I am also heading to the playoffs, have a security playoff spot. But Luis, who's our senior director of evangelization discipleship, how's your season been so far?
Speaker 3:it's been great, it's been great.
Speaker 1:What's your record?
Speaker 3:again, I think shows the fact that I'm really concentrated in doing my job as director of evangelization and that really spending time in something else so my you haven't been active in the my record is.
Speaker 1:My record is like 6, 6, 6 I think you're 5 and 7 5 and 7. Do you change that?
Speaker 3:yeah, because I can change it and and even with a 5 and 7 record, I can make it to the playoffs with the combination of things that will happen this weekend.
Speaker 1:By winning this weekend, which I'm gonna easily, easily he's gonna he's gonna win, so this is this is just a quick glimpse into, you know, five minutes of our day when we we razz each other all about fantasy football, which is pretty fun, luis, what's so? What do you got going on this weekend? What's going on?
Speaker 3:not much. I'll be taking some time off and rest. I have a number of things I need to work on, but it's not much so. Mostly housing, shores and something that nice.
Speaker 2:So what's the one chore that you guys struggle to do? I don't. I don't personally have one, but I want to see, I see my chore folding laundry. Yep, that was that would be mine.
Speaker 3:I agree on that, but I don't like watching dishes either.
Speaker 1:If to, I got to, yeah folding yeah folding laundry would be my least favorite my wife would tell you that I'm a verse to a high percentage of chores, not just not just that one.
Speaker 3:So do you have like like a quick way of doing it? Like we'll make it not very nicely in yeah, yeah, I'll just like a man.
Speaker 1:Is this shirt inside out? Yeah, it is, I'll throw it in there. It's fine, just like.
Speaker 3:Make fold it in half and call it good yeah, I'll take care about the inside out when I'm gonna wear it not today.
Speaker 1:Yes, not today. A classic, you should have to work.
Speaker 2:I'm like I'm pretty sure that blazers inside out, but that's so hard, not okay, it's interesting, we all show it looks like inside out. Doesn't there what I'm wearing?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, it's like the style now yeah, everybody get a good look at what Alex is. You know, wearing this is a style known as seems out dude actually is this it?
Speaker 2:no, I do have one that's that you can't wear inside out, but not this one yeah, mine's kind of cool.
Speaker 1:It's got this like a little pocket. What's that for? Like they say, it's like for pennies or pennies or something like that my daughter asked me actually.
Speaker 3:I was wearing it the other day and my daughter asked me what's that for? And I said for the phone, and then she said that's some feeding there yeah, it's just kind of a it's.
Speaker 1:I think it's more for aesthetic purposes than anything, but you can come up with stuff. I like when someone handed me a business card before I've thrown it in there, or something like that, which is nice, hilarious. We've actually had a lot of compliments about these, like I think we're gonna. We're gonna do another order and allow young adults to purchase them.
Speaker 2:Nice, that'd be great consider the quilt style too. I get a lot of affirmations on this. It's hard to get work done with all of them. Yeah, just just just stopping right here specifically calls, calls yeah, cuz that's why.
Speaker 1:Cuz that's why people are calling anyways, anyway. So we're super excited to have Luis on. We're starting a series on leadership that you know Alex has kind of put together. Alex, how many weeks is this series?
Speaker 2:gonna be six part series a six part series.
Speaker 1:I think it that'll be the longest series that we've done on render Catholic so far, which is exciting. And today is just, you know, really just kind of an overview of what it means to be a great leader, and Alex and I are really good at keeping our jobs, so we thought we'd ask our boss to tell us what a good leader would be.
Speaker 1:No, that's not true. We love Luis. He's done a great job leading our office through a lot of awesome things, so we're excited to talk. Discuss that with him. Alex, would you say?
Speaker 2:a prayer, sure, and the father, son, holy Spirit. Amen. Man, what do you think you for who you are? What do you think you for the way that you Modeled servant leadership? Thank you for the way that you have shown us how to give of ourself and how to pour ourself out for those that we lead, and we pray for just a deeper understanding of leadership today, of Following you as a disciple and also being called to be a leader for other people, and we ask that this conversation with bless ourselves and any listeners. And Jesus. We trust these things in your name, so pray them, the father and of the son and of the Holy Spirit.
Speaker 1:Hey man so Luis. Yes, sir, when you when you first think of a leader, like what are the things that you're thinking about? Like what does that mean?
Speaker 3:Yeah, you send me some notes for today's Conversation. I have always defined leadership as influence, influencing the good sense of the word, like somebody who has the power to influence on someone else's life. Life is a, is a Is a leader. That influence can be negative or can be positive, of course, and Christian leadership will be around Influencing Christian virtues and values in someone's life. So I have always defined leadership as influence and in that sense I believe somebody can be a leader without Holding a position of leadership.
Speaker 3:My mom, my dad, you are. As a father, you can be a leader because you have the power to influence someone else's life or someone who is Like in the church. There's some people in these dioceses that are not here in the Chancery, but they have significant influence over the life of the archdiocese because of what they do, because of, because of the, the things they do, the, the activities, the Friendships, the connections, the, the business, whatever it is. So I think, one level or another, we all have some level of influence over someone else's life and we can, in that sense, exercise that leadership, that influence, in a positive manner.
Speaker 1:What do you think out like so, and how do you get to that? What does that influence mean? Like how do you, how do you, how do you delve into that and and Be in a place and be put in a position to be an influence?
Speaker 3:I don't know if you are putting a position, but you Can you earn it or? You can just like you are a leader for your son and you were not put into that position by anyone else but yourself. And and so it is not necessarily that you that is not necessarily an appointment that you were appointed to be the leader is based on your Relationships, responsibilities, qualities that you can be of influence.
Speaker 2:So we start talking about, and you're sharing, that we can be Really, we can be leaders in whatever situation that we're in, whether it's been, whether it has been appointed or whether it's more of a natural position of leadership and influence that we have with people in our life and as we start to move towards, you know, ideas of good leadership, of Christian leadership, what, what comes to mind for you and you think of man, this, this person is a really like Strong and good leader and that maybe in the church or in the world who come to mind.
Speaker 3:Yeah, whenever I have been asked for that question, I'm I'm very practical in many ways and I am very Simple, in the good sense of simplicity of some of these things, and I always mention our Bishop Charles chapter. I had the honor who I have, the honor that you've actually decided to give in your life and you've naturally influenced yourself and put yourself in fiscal Sometimes it's what we as a youth of working with him for 12, 13 years in Denver before he moved to Philadelphia, and I always recall the first time I talked to him in his office, I met him after a mass, but then I came to his office when I was going to be hired or I had already been hired, actually and he invited me to a meeting in his office. And I remember I was coming to his office and I was going through my mind what is he going to ask me? What if he asked me for this or that and a theological question or doctrine, something is he going to evaluate, if I am a good Catholic or not, or anything like that? You?
Speaker 2:kind of feel nervous yeah.
Speaker 3:I was very nervous, but I come to his office. He sat down wherever, in the same place that he always sat in his office, and he opened the conversation saying how are you? He said are you praying? He said do you have financial needs? Are you sleeping? Well, he was so very human, very simple, and I felt that he was not talking to the employee who has a task to do on my behalf. He was speaking to the person in front of him and he was always like that and I truly appreciated that part that I wish I was. I am more like that.
Speaker 3:Sometimes, I get very dragged into whatever is happening with work, but he had the ability of recognizing the person. He had a memory that was really amazing, or he has. I mean, he's still alive, still around, he's no longer a nurse bishop, but that he will see you after Mass. The next time that you come to Mass and he will call you by your name, he will say Luis, he will remember the name you gave him a week ago and I'm super bad with names. So he had that quality of. He showed me that he cared about me and I think by doing that not only because of his post and appointment and he was your speech. I mean, he was my boss. Of course he was the leader of the diocese because he was appointed to be the leader, but he was doing some things that will make him exercise that influence over my ministry.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's a lot of things there that I really appreciate the human aspect like you talked about, like you didn't just see the employee and the work to be done and the task, but just checking in on you and so how for you, how did that impact you? That very human experience, that kind of pastoral experience, how does that experience of leadership, how does that affect you?
Speaker 3:Well, I try to use it every time with the people that I have the privilege of working with to always spend some time, either at the beginning or the end of our conversations to go over how is your personal life and try to put their life first. I think the most important asset of any group company entity is the people, and I think taking care of the heart of the people is is essential. It's good. It's good.
Speaker 1:I like that my heart's well taken care of a lot of time but it's true. I mean, it's really like every one on one that I would have with Luis. How are you? That's how he does it every single time.
Speaker 3:I try and, as I said, I'm not so disciplined many times, but it's in my mind that you have to always spend some time to talk to the heart, to the person that you have in front of you, because, in the case of employment, because you exercise leadership not only through employment, but in the case of a work environment, when you are the boss and you have some people, you are speaking to their wallet through a salary. You pay, of course, and they will be happy and they are happy. We are happy that someone is paying their salary, but you are even happier when somebody is really speaking to your heart and caring about you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's something that's really important to hone in on. That is not just about employment relationships, but there's leadership in your everyday lives. You can be a leader in the grocery store and the checkout line and things of that nature. But what I like, luis, is that it's a habit, a habit of, because it's something that obviously the mass majority of us, especially us Catholics we care about each other, we want others to do well and we want them to be successful and ask them how they are and we're genuinely interested in their lives. And if we're not, then that's a habit that we have to exercise.
Speaker 1:But so we might think that and assume that a lot of the time and this is something that I want to work on is but always asking anyway, and even though I'm always thinking about it, sometimes I don't, like you said, you don't actually do it, and so, taking that and together like, how are you? That's how we're starting, that's how I want to start 100% of my interactions, not because and that sets the tone of like we're friends and there's genuine care, so you might always genuinely care, but people might not know you genuinely care and even without thinking, you have made a habit of you normally prepare a list of items for a conversation and the number one item is always personal and update.
Speaker 3:So we, you know that that's a good way to start, and I know that that's a good way to start and we have made it part of our meetings every time. Sometimes there is not much to update, and that's okay.
Speaker 1:But sometimes there is, sometimes there is.
Speaker 3:And we want to. I think that's that's that's important, so that that element in in anyone's leadership and you can be a leader. By being an usher at mass, you are exercising leadership there by helping somebody find the seat. I mean can be something as simple as that or as sophisticated as being a bishop in a, in a diocese.
Speaker 2:I think, when I, when I think about, like, what are the fears or concerns that someone might have in asking the question, how are you? Is maybe two things that come to mind. One would be I don't know that I have the time to listen, or the or the energy to listen. And secondly is, especially when it's in the midst of a work relationship, is wondering, you know, are we going to be able to land this plane, to still help something productive happen, at least that's, at least that's. You know, the thoughts or fears that that might be possible, and what?
Speaker 2:what comes to mind for you guys with, with that of you know, someone saying I don't really know, that maybe I don't have the genuine, you know, interest or curiosity, or maybe I don't feel like I have the time, or there's a concern of you know it might take away from from the productivity or from the work to be done.
Speaker 1:The first thing that comes into my mind is that like and this is an oversimplification of the human person, this analogy that I'm fixing to use, but I think it like kind of makes sense.
Speaker 1:Like, take, take, NASCAR or Formula One or whatever racing you might you might be into your car drives fastest when it's like, well kept, kept up, it has the proper amount of oil, it has the right amount of gasoline, the tires have the right pressure, the tire tread, and as you go on a race there's things that break, there's things that the tires wear out and you have to change your tires in different things.
Speaker 1:And the fear of starting with how are you as are like, specifically the fear of like I don't have time to actually know how you are. I have found over my time, in whatever leadership positions, that how someone is doing like in their personal life, like if they're feeling successful, if they're having a hard time, if they're depressed, the million different things that can be going on, the more well that those things in the personal life are addressed and, at the very least, heard and understood and there's care expressed. There is something healing about that to a particular person and it's like the equivalent of changing the tires and the reason why people in races and this is from a pure like, answering from an efficiency standpoint, like, firstly, we should do it because it matters and people matter, that's the given. But if you were to really want to be efficient about things, if you're changing the tires on helping somebody change the tires on something, help them have a better outlook or growth they're gonna be better at what they do, they're gonna.
Speaker 1:there's more that's gonna be done.
Speaker 3:So when someone is happy and taken care of their ability to perform, goes up and the person can be going through struggles or difficulties, as we all go through, because that's human life, but the fact that someone is taking the time to care, I think that makes a significant difference in your loyalty performance and also that gives you an opportunity to get to know the person. Again, I say the most important job I have in this position is making sure that I have the right people in the right place, and I need to take care of that part, and if that is taken care of, the rest will work better. So the most important task I have in my role is the people, and I supervise an office with about 20 people. So making sure that we have the right people in the right places is gonna help us to be more successful and to be able to do what we are commissioned to do.
Speaker 1:A phrase that's used in leadership a lot that this conversation is making me think of. I think the phrase is earning the right to be heard or to be listened to or something like that. And when there's genuine and this is on the word genuine expression of care of you are more than whatever you're supposed to do for me, say, you're just leading Bible studies and you're helping somebody else lead a Bible study, showing that you care about them before, how many people they have in their Bible study, this last week is really important, or, which I think is a really a key piece that even I, like I'll get distracted by. Well, what are we up to? What are we doing next?
Speaker 1:Like my employees will tell you that sometimes I'm good about it, sometimes I'm not, and that's real. But like all of these things, I wanna like broaden our horizons some and like not just think of like we're as little chancey workers, we're so ready to think of it in a leadership structure and like with people that were like being paid, and that introduces a lot of complexities. But I think we're really talking about like when we talk about influence, when we talk about being a part of somebody's life, like we're talking about discipleship in a way, and even in a deeper way, we're talking about like authentic friendship, of what that means, like if I care so much about this person, I will. They're good, and if they're doing something that's good, encouraging them in it. So how do you, what do you think? The Luis, the like, the relationship between leadership as we know it and discipleship.
Speaker 3:I think discipleship is, as you said is, a form of leadership. When you are discipling somebody, you are helping someone to grow and influence in the life of this person, to become a disciple. You do it initially. I was sharing before that. The conversation has started.
Speaker 3:There are five principles I think are key in the exercise of the leadership and can be used in the exercise of making disciples as well. Number one is you have to model the way. You have to show how. So you have to be a disciple. You have to behave as a disciple. You have to really do the things that a disciple would make. So when somebody sees you, they see in you something unique. You have to model the way. You have to inspire a vision, inspire a shared vision. So you gotta tell them about this great calling and invitation to be a disciple of Jesus Christ and invite somebody to engage and to get to know and love Jesus Christ.
Speaker 3:Number three you have to challenge the process, and that applies in an employment environment. When you are working with somebody you supervise and maybe you have to ask questions and you help them to do things in a better way and in a more complete and robust and holistic way. You have to enable them to act. I and you both know this. I'm not the kind of leader that will do everything for you or do things for you or be the only one coming up with the ideas or be the only one coming up with the new initiatives.
Speaker 3:I believe that I am a leader with leaders, and the disciple will have to understand as well that we'll have to enable the other person to become a disciple maker. So it's not only that, because you are a disciple, you will stay a disciple. You are being discipled in order to become a disciple maker. Number five that we have been speaking about is what I call encourage the heart, speak to the heart, speak to the heart and speak to the person and care for the person. I'm not saying I'm perfect in all these five and I make mistakes in some areas. Some areas are stronger for me than others, but I think we have to kind of make sure that we cover those five things. And happens also when it comes to discipleship, as I said, because in some sense we are leading or we are discipling somebody in the church.
Speaker 2:It's really good. I'm just now realizing that these five principles that you've shared, they match up really nicely with some of the rest of the series that we're doing after this. So it'll be good to expand on this now and then to really almost have an episode per principle, like when I hear the encouraging the heart principle will have a. One of the episodes will be on healing. We can talk about the importance of inspiring vision. We're going to have, but one of the podcasts will be on the importance of vision as a leader, challenging the process. A big part of that is, like in communication, so we'll have one on communication as well. So just cool to see how these five principles are actually lining up really well with the rest of the series.
Speaker 3:So in some sense, that the challenge of the process has to do with the fact that whomever is in a position of leadership can see beyond something probably you are not seeing or can. Because of the position he has, because he has more than one person supervising, he can see beyond what you can see. So in that sense, it's positioned to challenge the process in order to align better with other elements, and I think that's key. Many times in the church yard you haven't asked me this but many times in the church, especially in diocesan environments, we get used to just keep doing the same and do it over and over and over again and we are not challenged enough, I think, and I think that's an important piece.
Speaker 2:One of the questions on here to your point that I wanted to ask was do you have any phrases or modos that summarize your leadership? And you were like, well, I don't know. And I was like, well, that's perfect because I have one for you, but it ties in with challenging the process.
Speaker 3:I'm afraid, right now.
Speaker 2:And the process or the quote is this it's just two words why not, why not? That's such a Luis quote, and I think it's constantly challenging because it's you know, I'll come with something of like I just don't know that we could do X, y or Z, and then you say why not? Or then, or I'm like what you know, what do you think about this? And then you'll propose well, I think we could have this be even better and do this and do this. And then you end with why not?
Speaker 2:And it's that challenging the process is the push towards creativity. But I want to hone on something you mentioned, and I was thinking about this in terms of, like, being a leader, being a father. Sometimes being a father, you're kind of navigating certain things with the kids, because, because what you said is that you see further ahead, you see the repercussions, you see the consequences, you see that nothing's done in a vacuum, that if you do something, something else happens and it's kind of domino effect. And so you know, being a dad, you see a little kid climb on the counter and that's not the end of it, right? You imagine well, if he reaches for that, it's too far away. They're going to fall, it's going to cry, it's going to be hurt.
Speaker 2:But as a leader, like the landscape that you have to keep in mind, it seems like, almost as you grow as a leader, that becomes more broad. And so, as Jason and I are thinking kind of of you know the impact of our scope of marriage and family and of youth and young adult, your scope is larger, and so I wanted to ask you about that unique aspect of something that maybe you have and your relationship has. And really, as you grow in leadership, it's like that landscape of what you need to be mindful of and aware of and repercussions. It kind of grows. So do you have anything on that that comes to mind as you've grown as a leader and needing to kind of look out and be aware?
Speaker 3:The Lord said that if you want to follow me, you have to take on your cross. Right and leadership also has a cross. I was brought into the church. I was born in a Catholic family, grew up in a Catholic family, catholic my entire life. My faith story is so boring because of that, so I don't have a deep conversation.
Speaker 1:Sure, you edit that out, Avery.
Speaker 3:I don't have anything to do with that, but when I started being more engaged in the life of the church, doing my youth, I was engaged in something called the school of the cross, so this element of the cross has always been part of my exercise.
Speaker 3:So I believe in hard work, I believe in difficulty, but I think the biggest cross of the leader and maybe this is not only in a Christian way is that you can do a thousand good things, but you will be remembered for the one mistake you made, and so the leader has to really be paying attention to every step, because nobody's going to care about the good things you did if you make one mistake and the higher you are in leadership, the bigger the consequence of that is going to be, and that, in some sense, is a cross. It's a cross because being allowed to fail and you were talking about that yesterday I believe it gives you a sense of peace, provokes your creativity. You are willing to take risks, but in leadership and many times you ask about bishops they are in positions where they sometimes, and some bishops not our bishops, but some bishops are just afraid of taking risks.
Speaker 2:Because of that, yeah, I can definitely see that as a cross for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like, when we go back to those five things that you were talking about, I feel like a high percentage, a high, high percentage.
Speaker 1:There's another thing that's similar to what you just wrote down. That's like the five levels of leadership and we don't need to go through all those, we don't have time, maybe in a different one. You know, when you talk about modeling, you know and it's really good that it's number one you know, because if you're, you know, hypocritical or you know, not backing up the way that you're acting or asking people to do things, you know Like, like, it's obvious, like Luis, like Israel, when he's like, when he says like we want to work hard, that was one of the very first things that he said to us as directors whenever, whenever he was coming to the office you know like, hey, we're gonna work hard. That's something that I really believe in. And you know, we see Luis do that more than anybody. You know, and if, but if Luis were just kind of like here sometimes and not getting not making stuff happen for himself and all of that like Then that would like undermine everything.
Speaker 1:You know the rest of it wouldn't make any sense in like in the moral authority that we have to have as leaders, especially within the church. You know even more. You know even more so like the consequences of it, you know, become greater and greater with the more people that we're leading and that is across. You know there's been, you know I've I've just thought about like, you know, just from a purely human standpoint, I've thought, like even being as a diocesan leader, and this is just being vulnerable. You know, if somebody says something to me that I really didn't appreciate and I'm and I'm just ready to, I'm not like, not like to like fight, fight I'm, but to like say something about it and be angry, and that I have to think about. I don't represent Just me, you know, and this particular thing.
Speaker 1:I represent Christ and present the church and the archbishop, and that's like a, that's a really powerful Thing and like there's a responsibility, you know, within that, as far as the modeling goes, that's just, and when you tie that in with just DNA condition that we all have as humans of we're sinful and and then we're not gonna be perfect, it's very hard, hard to reconcile. Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know we we're, we're talking about some of the, the personal aspects, the human aspects, the, you know the, the personal well-being and the care that you experience, and also the cross of a leader and some of the responsibilities of a leader. And I wanted to get in just as we kind of approach the, the final minutes of this is ask how, how do you think we set someone can grow as a leader? What comes to mind with how can someone grow in their leadership capabilities?
Speaker 1:Well, there are some and maybe even just to hone it in just a little bit more, like the fastest you know, because there's a billion ways. Just elevator, how do you grow? Yeah, how do you hop on that elevator? Like saying to rest completely vertical.
Speaker 3:I Wasn't thinking that way.
Speaker 1:That's all right, you can say whatever you're gonna say.
Speaker 3:I was gonna say that that Of course there's something, some things that we can study and we can learn and we can. There are some good books, you know, and at some point in my life I don't know if what is the demographic listening to this, but I Encounter a book. This is not, it's not about leadership, or maybe this. It's called good to grade. Have you read that book? Yeah, good, good to grade. And then, and and it says that there is a principle Concept. What's the name of the concept? Do you remember the hedgehog, something concept. And he said there are three things you have to. It's like a diagram that they offer in the in the book, and he will say define. What are you good at. What are you good at? Number two what are you passionate about? Number three what drives your end? Chromic engine. I think so. When creating a company, you have to think what am I really good at? Am I passionate about this? Because you, you, you might be very good about playing soccer, but you don't like this board. So why?
Speaker 1:who does?
Speaker 3:really worry. Come on Okay baseball.
Speaker 3:Or you can really a Well be passionate about Sport, but you don't have the skills you are not good at that. So at some point in my life, I think those three and when, when choosing my, my or confirming my choice of Career, what I wanted to do, I think one good step to grow in leadership is that you will have those three, that you will be when you are good at what you are passionate about and that you are happy doing that because he's giving you what an issue will be willing to grow and and do more in that area so you can do it by Learning and studying. You can also be close to other people who is exercising Leadership in a good way that you admire and try to learn as much. That's what the disciples did with the Lord, right, they the first three years of their Following the Lord.
Speaker 3:In in the gospels you don't hear much they did. They just follow him. They were just watching. He was modeling the way for them. He was inspiring a service. He was challenging them every time they were making mistake, challenging them and challenging the, the process. He allowed them to act. He actually sent them to to be missionaries and and, of course, he was speaking the heart and really saying you have a place with me and stuff like that. So I think being around other leaders, others that can show you, show the way, is an important way of doing it as well and in practice and put it in practice and making mistakes and Trial and error and do it again and continue. I think that's that's an important thing. So if you have never discipled lead someone, start doing it and you will get better at doing it.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm, just start, just start, just start baby. Well, that's awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's really good. I think the the Like staying close to someone who you admire and then like seeing how, like the disciples did that with the Lord too, and seeing how that molded their, their leadership and then. But then they had to go do it also and had to make mistakes, but they just had to, they just had to try, they had to start. Yeah, like that.
Speaker 1:The the importance of surrounding yourself with the right people and people who you want to be, like you know, Because you just, you just naturally take things on from anybody. I think it's such an amazing, amazing and good one. Well, that's awesome, and we're coming up to the end of our time here, so we've been red dirt Catholics and we'll see you next time.
Speaker 2:Thank you, luis, thank you.