Red Dirt Catholics
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Red Dirt Catholics
Top 10 Past Episodes (so far...)
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As they blow out the candles on the fourth anniversary Red Dirt Catholics, Jayce and James take a trip down memory lane to revisit the top 10 past episodes of the podcast.
The episode is a thoughtful journey through the power of the Gospel and its capacity to address the universal yearnings for divine love and acceptance.
Check out the list of past favorites in this episode, and listen to any of the past episodes with the links below:
Top 10 Episodes:
1. "Great Friends, Great Bishops" - S1:E 24-25
Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/great-friends-great-bishops-part-1-ft-archbishop-paul/id1500082309?i=1000488027907
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/3aNgvX06w5RBZfWW4qxF2s
2. "Why Lent?" - S2:E 8-9
Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/why-lent-ft-fr-jerome-krug-and-fr-michael-brungardt-part-1/id1500082309?i=1000512492013
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/4JDCARDbJmvX8RV21z2M5V
3. "Surrender Novena" - 2021
Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/surrender-novena-day-1/id1500082309?i=1000545107720
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/0o0yqiYtfFk5ivPWiftnEt
4. "God Will Make it Right for His Sons and Daughters" - S3:E 13
Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/god-will-make-it-right-for-his-sons-and-daughters-ft/id1500082309?i=1000593292108
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/0PWu3d0oFrtVA1XP7NpDUD
5. "Proud of God" - S2:E 10
Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/proud-of-god-ft-sarah-wells/id1500082309?i=1000514333528
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/6kWlEytUd4tkaHtSHR1Gju
6. "Self-Reliance is From the Devil" - S1:E 26
Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/self-reliance-is-from-the-devil-ft-bishop-james-conley/id1500082309?i=1000489263628
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/6S7XxauU2axJY5u4CahsUB
7. "The Gospel and the Rescue Project" - S4:E 11
Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-gospel-and-the-rescue-project-ft-father-john-riccardo/id1500082309?i=1000626132074
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/2dTwAXXgNgK746hF4xP9UT
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDvxvYWnc7k
8. "From Christendom to Apostolic Mission, pt. 4" - S1:E 39
Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/part-4-from-christendom-to-apostolic-mission-ft-archbishop/id1500082309?i=1000503378542
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/3mADRrkbAUk9DDDuPSYf6I
9. "Work, Leisure and Mercy" - S3:E 9-10
Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podca
Register now for the 2025 Discipleship Conference for the Archdiocese of Oklahoma City! This full-day, bilingual event will feature amazing speakers, breakout sessions, adoration, Mass, confessions, vendors and more at the Oklahoma City Convention Center on Saturday, August 9. Register now to get the early-bird price at OKDisciple.org.
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Links and other stuff from the show:
Pastoral Letter, "On the Unity of the Body and Soul:" archokc.org/pastoral-letters
Red Dirt Catholics Email Address: reddirtcatholics@archokc.org
The Book "From Christendom to Apostolic Mission" (Digital and Print): Amazon
The Social Dilemma: https://www.netflix.com/title/81254224
Daily Examen Prayer: https://bit.ly/309As8z
Lectio Divina How-To: https://bit.ly/3fp8UTa
so my son peter peter's five, he's like starting to read and he's just like growing into his own person. I'm seeing like we're seeing the personality more and more, which is awesome. Recently he's just kind of learned that if he says he doesn't like something, that his chances of not having to eat it specifically with Danielle are higher. And so he started saying that he'll eat. He'll eat a salami sandwich one day and the next day say I don't like salami sandwiches because he wants pink ramen. That's his absolute favorite food, is pink ramen. So much so that my wife, who's a Timu addict, bought pink ramen pillows for him for his bed and he loves them. But he's starting to say just the funniest things.
Speaker 2:So my wife makes a mean pepperoni pasta is what it's called. It's really, really good, and at first he always asked any, any pasta he's like is there cheese on it? Because he for some reason he thinks he doesn't like cheese, but he actually does like cheese. Um, and I'm like I did my best to like pick around it. Um, I didn't try, uh, but I told him and, uh and and so, but he eats it and like maybe five or six bites into it. We're in the middle of watching Star Wars Episode I together and he just goes oh, that's the good stuff. Just like out of nowhere which I know I've said before. But he's like, he's like picked up on that and stuff. So like what's, what's like a catchphrase that your kid says that's just like Theo, our four year old.
Speaker 3:Like anytime, something has like a filling to it, he calls it the goods A filling. Yeah, like if there's like the insides of a you know fajita or the insides of a little casserole dish or something like that, like the filling that's delicious, he calls the goods. I can have some more goods, some more of the goods.
Speaker 2:That's pretty funny. And another thing Peter said we were talking. Talking about it was like a comparison between mommy and daddy. Oh, I lost it.
Speaker 3:I don't remember what he said now, or we can move um the my, my oldest has like crazy memories, like just like locked in from years ago. So we're like eating chicken fajitas, um, with like a salsa verde sauce that emily made spinach and chicken and and we're eating it and theo's doing the same thing. This was his favorite dish and now he's like, yuck, I don't want it like this is gross. He ended up eating most of it once. He like started tasting it, but grace and our oldest was oh, I remember one time, when we ate this, we watched the Frozen. I was four. It's like, dude, you're six. It's like we were in the old house and I was four and we watched Frozen after we ate this. I had no recollection, but he was like, yeah, you're right, buddy, I think on a family movie night or whatever.
Speaker 2:Oh man, that's's funny. Yeah it, it blew my mind. He was like he his teacher sent him home with like a little homemade reading practice book and like he's starting to read. You know, it's really exciting. Like he's sounding stuff out like we were at. We were at the hospital, um, my, my grandma had had surgery and she had this little heart pillow, um, that everybody signs, and he like sounded out grandma nice, like he's like, and I think he could probably get. I think he guessed a little bit that it probably says grandma right, but he's sounding it out. That's pretty, pretty cool. You know, which was really cool. So having having kids like that is absolutely wild. Chris Beck moved, I know. He's full blown gone.
Speaker 4:Left P-Town.
Speaker 2:He hasn't just left the podcast, he's left P-Town, he's in Lake Jackson, which is basically south, like an hour south of Houston, if you can go that far south without being in Mexico.
Speaker 3:I think there's still a little bit of room to go.
Speaker 2:But he's loving it there. They just finally sold their house, nice, which was exciting for them. They're having to figure all of that out, but we've been hanging out. We've been playing a video game me, him, and another guy great guy from Ponca City, aaron, and playing a pirate video game called Skull and Bones. Nice, it's been fun, fun, where we dominate the high seas.
Speaker 3:There, you go.
Speaker 2:That's cool and whatnot, but we're celebrating some sort of anniversary. I don't remember exactly what the anniversary is. Maybe we celebrated it months ago, but now we're back in February. So February was what? Our fourth year, our fourth year anniversary so.
Speaker 3:A was what Our fourth year.
Speaker 2:Four year anniversary. So Avery put together a list with us of all of our favorite episodes and we thought it would be fun to just kind of like discuss them all.
Speaker 3:Yeah, kind of four years in review, a little bit of a highlight reel, I think, populate some from what we like the most, but also from what y'all like the most, based on listens. Yeah, so I don't know. We hope to kind of invite you guys back to listen to some of the favorites, if you hadn't heard them, but also share some of the high points here and review Heck. Yeah, james, will you open us in a prayer, absolutely In the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit? Amen.
Speaker 3:Heavenly Father, we praise you for how good you are. We thank you for our listeners, we thank you for the many disciples here in the Archdiocese of Oklahoma City who are living out the mission that you mandated for us to go make disciples of all nations, and we just pray that this podcast will continue to be a fuel for fanning the missionary flame and illustrating the realities of discipleship. And we thank you for the opportunity to kind of relive some of the moments that we've shared on air here. We praise you for who you are and we ask that, through your son, that you may make us all new. In your name, we pray, amen.
Speaker 2:Amen.
Speaker 3:In the name of the father and the son, the Holy spirit.
Speaker 2:Amen, amen. What's do? Amen In the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, amen, amen. Do we start at 10?
Speaker 3:And go to one. I don't know if we have these in any particular order, do we?
Speaker 3:I guess we kind of had them in an order. I don't know if they're ranked or not, but yeah, we can go down our list. I don't know. I think we we were debating which were our personal favorites we can. We can maybe start with there and then popcorn around. But I know on my end I had a buddy asking me about it last night and I think, like my, the most fun episode to be on for me was with Archbishop Coakley and Bishop Conley.
Speaker 7:In fact I was getting ready to head out to Cape and to hear confessions it was during Lent, on a Tuesday and got the call and you know it was Archbishop Sambi who was the Apostolic Nunsu at the time, and he said the same thing I have good news the Holy Father has named you the Auxiliary Bishop of Denver. Do you accept? And of course I was just discombobulated at the time and didn't really, you know, I was running late and so I said can I wait and call back tomorrow? Can I pray about this? And he said sure you can pray, he says, but just remember, the apostles dropped everything and said yes to Jesus when he called.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, Don't see you.
Speaker 7:Give me a call in the morning.
Speaker 8:He's like yeah, pray about it. You're going to say yes.
Speaker 7:So, yeah, I don't know why I even thought that I could wait, and pray about.
Speaker 3:It Just really got to kind of feel and I think we did when we listened to it too just feel the authentic friendship that those two have. And he was right on the heels of Bishop Conley's sabbatical, so he was in town basically re-observing how to bishop, yeah, yeah, which is pretty cool and his sea legs back.
Speaker 8:It was yeah, which is pretty cool Sea legs back.
Speaker 2:It was amazing he was officing out of here and it was like having a bishop that isn't surrounded by meetings all the time and different things. So we got to record several podcasts with him. It was one of our longest ones as far as our two-parters. I think we were in the booth almost for two hours. I think you're right. That was before we had this cool studio that Avery built for us, which is also one of our favorite things about the podcast now. So shout out, producer Avery. Yeah, I remember them talking about like playing baseball together.
Speaker 8:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Jimmy.
Speaker 3:Conley up to bat. Yeah, jimmy Conley up to bat.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Jimmy Conley.
Speaker 2:I remember that piece of it and just like the friendly ribbing that they both gave each other, and I had never heard like we'd heard Archbishop like vocation story, like multiple times, like it's an amazing story. So you know, whatever events that it's appropriate, he says it as he should, but we hadn't heard it when they were because they were together for all of it and I loved that yeah, it was pretty neat.
Speaker 3:I I didn't realize they grew up together, Like so the baseball stories and the fact that they were like right next to each other at the in lockers in school was kind of cool to know. I mean, obviously lots of us who've tracked the story know they were in the integrated humanities together at KU and and really embrace their faith more fully there. But yeah, seeing their, their friendship from adolescence, you know, through high school and college and then as priests and bishops, it was pretty cool. I remember a funny moment where Archbishop Coakley alluded to the fact that Bishop Conley knew that, probably knew that Archbishop was going to get the call to be a bishop before he knew. And you like called him, called him, called him out on maybe that he had a part of that and uh, bishop conley said nothing but he winked at us.
Speaker 3:That was before the video that was before the video, yeah, so that was funny I think we I think we narrated that we got a wink from from one side of the room uh, yeah, that was so funny.
Speaker 2:The other thing that I thought was really funny it it was cool was like the circumstances surrounding Bishop Conley going to the RCIA classes, like it was somebody who didn't who was going, but who decided to go because they were dating a friend of the archbishops and they didn't want to go alone. And so he was like, oh fine, I'll go with you and like, help you stay Protestant, or whatever. A friend of the archbishops and they didn't want to go alone. And so he was like, oh fine, I'll go with you and like, help you, stay Protestant, or whatever his thought process was. And it turned out he was the one who actually converted and the other person didn't, that year at least. Maybe, I think. Maybe they came on later, but you know.
Speaker 3:Oh, that's right, Bishop Conley's a convert.
Speaker 8:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they, you know. Oh, that's right, bishop conley's a convert. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, they can. They converted it like.
Speaker 3:I mean they both converted right through the great books program over at ku rest in peace, yeah, maybe, maybe all replicate it in our own ways right in our right, yeah, whereas coakley's was, you know, being a nominal catholic, not really super interested in practicing his faith and coming back home.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but that was an amazing episode. Just to relax in there and there was just like. There wasn't even like a like. Normally when we were with a bishop there can be a time where it's like all right, I'm a bishop, I got to go do something else now and whatnot, but that one felt just super free.
Speaker 3:It felt pretty timeless, like I think, if you want one. If you haven't heard the episode, I encourage you just to get a a sense of the humanity of our shepherd and and you know how, how he is as a friend, I feel like he really let his hair down, you know, so to speak, in the episode and was just super comfortable and casual. And there's no script, no calculation, no pausing to think about what was to be said.
Speaker 2:It was just all two friends hanging out I'm still dying to find a picture from when he was a dead head, both of them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they both loved with their long hair, like I feel like they would have looked like wayne's world or something which would, which would have really funny, I think. One of my favorite ones, but one that was really impactful. The next episode that was really impactful for me was with Father Krug and Father Michael Bumgart from Wichita, one of his close friends, when they discussed with us why Lent or what's the purpose of Lent.
Speaker 8:The thing is we want to get so fixated on like our struggles with particular sins, like maybe it's a struggle with lust, and we get so zeroed in on the way that I fall when I struggle with lust, when really the important thing is really not to zero in on the sin, but to zero in what else am I feeling when I'm vulnerable to fall in particular ways? What else is going on? Don't focus in on the sin. Don't focus in on the lust. Don't let the lust or the anger be what regulates your moral life, but let what's actually happening in you, beside the sin, be what regulates your moral life.
Speaker 2:Initially it was really important for me because, as a convert Initially it was really important for me because as a convert I really hadn't given a ton of thought or credence to the idea of liturgical seasons. I just kind of like, well we're changing it up.
Speaker 2:Different colors, more colors of vestments, is good. You know different liturgies, that's good, but I hadn't really considered the reality of the church's seasons and every bit is real, as like the difference between winter and summer in our own spiritual lives and that Lent isn't something that we do, which is kind of what I thought of it as Like it's time to give something up. Can't eat meat, that sucks. I hate fish, so it's just cheese. Pizza is a regular in my linten diet. Um and uh, as a result of that, um, that that like just kind of like lint is something that happens to you. Easter is something that happens to you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that was a profound thought that it it happens to you. I even had that experience this year, like I don't know. I kind of felt like my efforts on Lent were eh, you know like.
Speaker 3:I kind of petered out a couple of times and uh, but then, like as as Easter came, like Easter kind of happened to me, like there was, I really felt the grace of the resurrection come into different parts of my life, like things I was trying to resolve to do, and now, as like my own volition, and now it was more like I was just responding freely to an invitation, and so Easter certainly happened freely to an invitation, and so easter certainly happened. But I think that paradigm is helpful no matter what you know season, we're listening to that.
Speaker 2:Advent happens to us, lint happens to us, easter happens to us, christmas happens to us like that's yeah and it's just kind of like a let it happen kind of a thing and not sticking ourselves as the centerpiece for it, like Lent it's. It's not about you you know, um, kind of a thing which I think is a a really huge thing, cause I think we're really good at making it about us because of the whole like fasting and penance thing of this is what I gave up for Lent, Right, you know, or at least I've done that to myself.
Speaker 2:I'm like ooh, look at me. I remember one year, gosh I was. So, I was such a pious little college student. It was hysterical. But there was one year where, like, I will only drink what Jesus drank, so that was water, milk and wine For the entirety of. Let you know, and I just thought I was so cool that I came up with that, that I came up with that idea. It was just ridiculous. I love that.
Speaker 2:Another huge thing that he was discussing within this aspect of Lent is like how we should be looking at our sin, and the idea is that often, a lot of times, when we're looking at sin, we look at the sin and he akin it to the equivalent of when someone has cancer or something like that. That person probably throws up. But if all we focused on is helping that person not throw up like that doesn't help that person, they're not going to receive healing. They need chemotherapy, they need surgery, you know, but if all they were getting was like some dramamine to like not throw up anymore, that doesn't work, like it doesn't heal the person. In the same, in the same way With sin we can become I think he used the example of lust like we can become hyper fixated and focused on lust and that and like not wanting to let like a fall happen in that regard, when the real thing that we should be paying attention to is like what are the circumstances that led to that? Like what are the feelings?
Speaker 3:What are the yeah, what are the divine longings I have here? What are the legitimate needs that I have that I'm filling with the sin? Yeah, what wounds are causing me to find the sin? So, instead of treating the symptom, the throwing up or the sin or the acting out, how do I treat the wound or meet the real need I have? You know? So my, do I need more intimacy with other people? Do I need to live in reality better?
Speaker 2:yeah, and I mean really the real answer is like intimacy with the lord right yeah, right is being like the most basic human desire and need. But both of those things I found like really impactful for myself, so I thought that they were.
Speaker 3:I thought that was one of my favorite, yeah that was a really strong episode and those two were such good friends that you got a good feel of some priestly friendship. And that one was back in season two, episode eight, which, if you're kind of following along here, can we put these in the show notes like links to the episodes and stuff, so you'll be able to kind of click down and go back into one of your favorites there. Another one of my favorites was the Surrender Novena. Oh Jesus, I surrender myself to you. Take care of everything. Oh Jesus, I surrender myself to you. Take care of everything. Oh Jesus, I surrender myself to you. Take care of everything. Oh Jesus, I surrender myself to you.
Speaker 3:Take care of everything, oh Jesus, I surrender myself to you. Take care of everything, oh Jesus. I surrender myself to you. Take care of everything, oh Jesus, I surrender myself to you. Take care of everything, oh Jesus, I surrender myself to you. Take care of everything, oh Jesus, I surrender myself to you. Take care of everything, oh Jesus, I surrender myself to you. Take care of everything, oh Jesus, I surrender myself to you. Take care of everything, oh Jesus. I surrender myself to you. Take care of everything, oh Jesus, I surrender myself to you. Take care of everything, in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Amen.
Speaker 3:Like I remember praying this over in Ernovina. Yeah, that was crazy, pretty like a couple different times leading up to that, but one fairly recent and, uh, we, that was in 2021 was in and then, yeah, 2021, so like right before 2022, because we did it leading into christmas. And uh, I remember being at a place in my life like, like the episode before, we talked about advent and spiritual poverty and, uh, surrender, and then we kind of keyed up the, the uh novena, where we dropped it for nine days straight and the Novena is actually those are our most listened to episodes. So apparently the listeners like those quite a bit too. Those are at the top. But I remember just sharing in that episode preceding it about like okay, I've, yes, surrendered earlier in my conversion, like surrendered like the carnal things of life, like the struggles with sin. But like what I was coming to in that time and I feel like I'm feeling again now is like I've barely scratched the surface of knowing how to surrender, like there are so many things that I try to, um, I try to fix myself or ignore or numb out or avoid or escape instead of a proper surrender, and I don't know.
Speaker 3:It's just pretty neat for me personally, I think I'd had the realization to just pray, the serenity prayer over different parts of my life, which has some wisdom embedded in it. It's like God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference. And so for me that was a powerful moment, but I also heard from lots of our listeners that it was. But I think that was helpful and still is helpful for me now. On surrender, like very often there's yeah, I just need to be at peace, like Jesus can take care of everything. Jesus take care of that thing, like there's nothing I can do. But other times he's taking care of it and part of how he is is he gives us the invitation to have some courage to address it, to change it.
Speaker 2:What piece of the serenity prayer do you find the most challenging out of all of those things? The wisdom to know the difference accepting the things you can't change.
Speaker 3:It's probably the beginning because, like courage to change the things I can. Actually, maybe it's wisdom to know the difference, because I think in my humanity my default response is one of two trying to change it like just self-reliance, pull myself up by the bootstraps, go change whatever I don't like. But if I'm in like a wounded place or tempted to play the victim role or something I might face, something that I should surrender by just avoiding, by just trying to escape it, like trying to deny it. And so, yeah, after a little bit of thought, I think wisdom to know the difference is the place where I need more grace, because, um, yeah, the the things I would avoid are where I need the courage to change, and the things I'm like, oh, I'm going to fix this and make it better, like you can't even affect anything on that anyway, buddy.
Speaker 2:Like yeah the, the one that I have, the, that like the wisdom to know the difference, I think, is actually the answer. Yeah, um, for myself, but the one that I feel the most is like, like you said, like the, the to accept the things that I can't change, like, and it's not even and accepted in a way like that way, like that, I'm trying to actively do something. A lot of times I know that there's nothing to be done. A lot of times I know that then, or is a, is a higher plane of, like coexistence with something that you can't change. Then, um, then, like obsessing and thinking about it and, like you know, working it through your head, or like trying to find different angles for like, how could it? Maybe, maybe it looks better from this angle, and this is the way that I should be looking at it, when, when, in reality, it just doesn't matter because there's nothing you can do and really there's just like a, like there's a peaceful shrug and be, like, okay, that I want to be better at.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's interesting is like the reality of surrender and this serenity prayer processing. It kind of parlays well into one of the other episodes on our list, which was season three, episode 13. God will make it right for his sons and daughters with Father Jerome.
Speaker 8:The surest bridge from orphanhood to sonship is that, when I'm still riddled by the effects of orphanhood, when I'm exhausted, when I'm weary, when I feel hopeless, when I feel alone, when I isolate, when I numb out, when I choose not to pray, when I rely on myself, when I believe God is not trustworthy to make the conscious choice to believe in that moment that, despite all of that apparent evidence that I am known and seen and loved perfectly, even though none of it feels true, nothing will bring us from orphanhood to sonship than in the midst of orphanhood to believe sonship. And that's exactly the reverse of what brought orphanhood on was that, in the midst of sonship, mistrust brought them to hold on to orphanhood. And so when we're surrounded by the inverse Garden of Eden, that is our fallen world, right? Maybe you could use the imagery of the upside down from Stranger Things, right?
Speaker 2:Topical season. What season are we on Four? I don't know. I stopped watching after two.
Speaker 8:They were too far between, anyway. But yeah, our way out is the reverse of our way in. So, when you are weary and burdened and exhausted and numbed out and alone and self-reliant, to not think in that moment that you're lost, because the truth of sonship is that you're lost, because the truth of sonship is that you're not. The truth of sonship is that you're not.
Speaker 3:And he talked about, like I think, the word choice.
Speaker 2:Father Jerome got on here twice, I know.
Speaker 3:I know We'll have to give him a hard time. Shout out Father Jerome, yeah, the word that I hadn't used in a spiritual context before I heard him a recording of the talk he gave before he came on here at Archbishop's Cookout for the young adults was this idea of orphanhood. Yeah, and I think like what we were just processing is really in our failure is how an orphan would respond. Someone who doesn't realize they're adopted by the father would respond to the problems of life. You know try and you know scrap through and figure it out, or like run from the trouble. You know one or the other, yeah.
Speaker 2:And what James means by the like the orphan idea is like is like, literally, you're an orphan Like you've like, you've been left out to dry, you've been abused, you've been hurt, you've been not chosen. Very specifically, and when those type of like real things that are a result of the fall happen to us, like it, there's a natural closing in, there's a natural walling off, like everyone, like everyone and their mom has seen it in the, in a, in a, in a romantic comedy, where it was like I I my walls are up.
Speaker 2:My walls are up. You know like there's like it's a it's an understand phenomenon in our, in the way that we as humans relate to each other. But Father Jerome just did a really good job of relating that idea of orphan and how we respond to all of that.
Speaker 3:So so continue, yeah, and I thought what was beautiful about that is like even like post surrendering everything to Jesus and like accepting him fully and living under his Lordship. Like even after that and even after our baptism from original sin, we carry these tendencies and habits and thoughts and behaviors of an orphan Like so it's like something in our human formation as well as in divine action we have to continually work through and work with that. Like I'm actually predisposed to, like try to save myself.
Speaker 2:And to believe that no one wants to or can't help.
Speaker 3:I'm predisposed to think that I'm alone. I'm predisposed to think that no one will love me. You know, like these things are innately in the human condition and it's like our adoption isn't just a one-time thing. That happened at baptism, like that's where it began, but it's this like continual re-embrace of what it means to be adopted and I thought that was a really beautiful invitation. So if you've ever felt like alone, scared, I'm not wanted, I'm rejected, I'm not chosen, or like only I will be able to protect myself, like if you ever felt some of those things like, I think season three, episode 13, would be a good re-listen. It's been powerful for me, yeah.
Speaker 2:I think we like these episodes so much because they like impact us in a in a, in a special way and almost like I was kind of going through these, I was like there's a, there's a narrative amongst all of these episodes and a similar thread, because this is something that like really hits home for us and probably for just like a lot of people like in our Americanized culture. But like, another one that was amazing and we're gonna play the music really quickly, is Proud of God, which we had Sarah Wells on. Well, actually we had Sarah Wells and Sister Maria on, but we botched the recording. It got corrupted or something like that.
Speaker 2:I think Sarah Wells' mic wasn't on or something.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so it ruined the recording, but it was so powerful the first time that we were like we have to do this. So I think it's actually I'm fairly confident it's the only episode where I went solo with a guest because it was the only way to figure it out with our schedules and get it out there. But Sarah was a musician. She was a missionary at the Gold House, like the Sister Maria's place for the Gospel of Life Disciples, yeah.
Speaker 2:Gospel of Life, disciples. That's like a house for the dying, really Mother Teresa-esque in that, which is really amazing. But she played a song for us that I think hits in the same chord.
Speaker 1:So we're gonna play it now. But it seems the harder that I try, oh, the harder it becomes and I feel like giving up Most of the time and, dear God, I've been chasing their approval and it's killing me. And I know the more I try to prove, the less I have to show and I'm stuck inside my head most of the time. But if I pray a little harder, if I follow all the rules, I wonder could I ever be enough? Cuz I try and try, just to fall back down again and I ask myself why do I try to chase the wind? I should lean into the mystery. Maybe hope is found in a melody. So I want to try again.
Speaker 2:I'm a fan of that.
Speaker 3:Me too.
Speaker 2:I really like the hope at the end. That's what was really sticking out to me right there. It's just like that. I've been spinning my wheels, man, but I do want to keep trying, try again. That's what stood out to me there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you're right, there's a thread line between this and the others. There's that orphanhood, this sense that I have to prove to God that I'm worthy of His love, to God that I'm worthy of his love. You know, like that, even in this, even in a converted place where, like God is my savior and I want to please him and serve him and glorify him, there's still I'm kind of carrying some orphanhood in there where I just I have to try harder and I have to prove it. And I think the father looks at us and is like you, I've already adopted you. You've got nothing to prove. I love you all the time, always. Yeah, it was really powerful. I remember hearing that, like she said she cried the first time she heard it and so did we.
Speaker 3:Yeah, on that episode I actually had a buddy he's's really successful business guy and on his LinkedIn he was posting like favorite podcasts and uh. So he asked me like if I listened to podcasts and wanted to share those. I was like, yeah, I'm actually on one. He was like, oh, cool, and I was like it's not a business one Catholic podcast. He's like, well, I love it, I'm Catholic. Like yeah, and uh.
Speaker 3:So I shared a couple episodes. This one, father Ricardo, but when I shared this one to him he was like, dude, you have to post this on my LinkedIn, like on the threads, so more people see this and hear this. And I was like which one it's? Like this one with this beautiful song man, like the rest of the episodes, just like speaking to my heart and I don't know.
Speaker 3:I just think it is very universal that we would have that sense that we have to earn this and that we have to prove it. And it's just deeply healing to be reminded and I think, particularly in a song in that episode, because it kind of connects the head and the heart a little bit but to be reminded that, yeah, the father doesn't need us to prove a thing, you know, um, he just wants us to respond to his love. And so I think that whole episode was beautiful because I think that Sarah was like kind of in this season of really converting in that. So you just get kind of like the raw relating to God in this space out of that episode and I like the notion the episode title bears it, but this notion of being proud of God, so it's kind of just the statement of that makes it clear like it's not our actions that are great, but it's what God is doing for us, in us, through us, and, yeah, a great paradigm shift is kind of invited in that episode.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it was, that was just a really beautiful moment invited in that episode. Yeah, yeah, it was. That was a just a really beautiful moment to like watch that happen. Um, yeah, what's what's next on the list? Oh, actually, like, I want you to talk about like what I feel is like kind of a culmination of that arc. Um, going through these is with like like season one, episode 26. Ooh, with Bishop Conley.
Speaker 7:Yeah, I think it's St Augustine who dealt with the Pelagian heresy and Pelagius believed that. You know and this is some people think this is from the Bible. Yeah, I know where you're going God will help those who help themselves, which is a heresy, you know, god will help those who help themselves. And a lot of people will say isn't that from the Bible? And actually the truth is no. Not only is it not from the Bible, it was condemned as a heresy during the time of St Augustine Because St Augustine realized, as did St Paul, that anything we do that is good is by the grace of God, that we're absolutely dependent upon God for everything.
Speaker 7:We need God for absolutely everything, and his grace is what inspires us to do anything good. Even the thought or the intention to want to do something good is the grace of God. All is grace, all is grace. And, like a baby, they are totally dependent upon their parents. They really can't do anything themselves. They are totally dependent upon their parents. They really can't do anything themselves. They can scream, but they can't do anything to help themselves. And that's why, in the gospel passage that you just referred to, james for today, that Jesus time and time again said unless we become like little children, we cannot enter the kingdom of heaven.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so that episode was really a response to God's work. Like that was a response to the Holy Spirit, because we have there's really all the spirit. We have Bishop Cullinan here because he's on the heels of this mental health sabbatical and his main thing he's working through is self-reliance, which is what the episode's about. But it was actually on the you know, the two bishops great friends kind of episode where like at the end he's sharing some final thoughts and so he's been warmed up and he's like really grateful and he shares a closing statement and he and then he talks about some of his healing and he says self-reliance is of the devil. And we were beyond the archbishop's time at that point in the day and we left and we're like wow, that was so fun, we're talking about it. And I was like Jace, do you think you could walk over to his temporary office and ask him if he'd come on tomorrow morning before he leaves to talk about this reality that self-reliance is of the devil? And I was like okay.
Speaker 2:I was scared Just because of how awesome that was, and I was like, do I dare ask for more? It was the idea and he was like, oh yeah, can we do two other ones too? That was, that's one of the ones that we've we still need to rerecord. We have a lost file about education. Yeah, that would be really neat.
Speaker 3:But the self-reliant one of Ryan's reliances of the devil is really really neat. We got the luxury of having breakfast with him beforehand and kind of talking through it and developing our friendship a little bit. But, um, it's just, he's so authentic and humble and how he shares it and very real and raw, and this is like before the media, like spent some time with him. Where did we?
Speaker 3:eat um I don't remember that it's on northwest expressway, somewhere along here, like okay, I don't know like a jimmy's egg or something but um, he, he just shares like kind of having. He shares what's happening in counseling, but he also shares like what led up to it, like having a bit of a savior complex, like I've got to do these things or else the church is going to crumble or whatever under his watch. And then he shares as he's going along doing some of these good things, like his pride is just getting inflated.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he was talking about like how well things were going in his diocese and people were like calling them all the time, but also like the amount of like talks and travel that he was being asked to do. Like he had a pretty regular segment on like Catholic Answers or something like that. Like I don't know if I did Gosh, god, don't let that happen to me, because it would be brutal, I'd crash and burn, way worse but yeah, and then he was just sharing some of that. But even like the prequel to him sharing some of that story was like this, just the generic understanding of american culture which I just hadn't thoughts so much abhorrent, like he talked about. Like you know, one of the reasons why like america is the united states is meteoric rise for our age on the world stage. Was this like the separation from britain and like wanting to do it ourselves.
Speaker 2:Like this rugged individualism is the philosophical term that he used for it. Well, whatever happens, we'll get through it and we'll make it happen.
Speaker 3:Yeah to pull yourselves up by your own bootstraps mentality.
Speaker 2:And we were talking about our parents and even probably us as parents, we'll take pride in some of the stuff that, like we didn't give to our child, that we didn't make easy, you know, for them, and even so much as like there's a little bit of that in this idea in our culture currently of like privilege and different things like that and different things like that, Like it's almost like we're in an errant way rejecting gift Right, Because you know it's not something that's, it wasn't something that was earned and you know which is a which isn't a good thing, and so juxtaposing that standpoint, like my dad being proud that he wasn't paying for my insurance. When I was 16, I had to work at Sonic to figure it out Sonic the worst job I ever had, by the way. We'll talk about that sometime. It was just an amazing experience him walking us through that and then being just really raw about his own experience there.
Speaker 3:That's a top two one for me. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, that's definitely dangers of self-reliance and what it had done to him and really by proxy as people like I think is a really beautiful witness for us, because I mean, there is something good and like having a good work ethic and making sacrifice and doing what you're supposed to do and all that, but it what he's really getting at is this, like this sense that I have to do it all on my own, like if I don't do it, it won't happen, and he kind of shared this.
Speaker 3:You know a helpful prayer he'd learned. That was like okay, god, I'm going to bed now I'm worried about fill in the blank, it's your church, I'll let you take care of it, you know kind of like a nightly like okay, I'm anxious, or worried or thinking, I need to continue to perform and I'm going to give this back to you and rest and see in the morning, kind of thing.
Speaker 3:You know, kind of realizing our place instead of putting us in God's place. And I think that's the trick, like in, or that's the lie, like in our neo-gnostic kind of culture, like we're, even in self-reliance, we're basically putting ourself in the place of God, like we're, we're saying we don't need him. It's like a way to. I've confessed this in like in confession, that I've denied God's existence, like through my actions and self-reliance. And I think if we're honest, we can find ourselves there quick.
Speaker 2:How cool is it when Father Ricardo presented the gospel to us.
Speaker 3:It is awesome In this room. It is so good. And yeah, if you haven't heard that episode, that one's pretty recent right. I mean, that was season four, episode 11.
Speaker 5:Yeah, no-transcript, utterly unconquerable, and he became a man to hide so as to engage the enemy in battle, because the enemy is not stupid, even though he's not wise, and he knows he can't beat God. So God hides himself as a man to draw the enemy into a conflict, and that's what's happening on the cross. This is extraordinary stuff, guys Like this is extraordinary stuff. Like God, jesus on the cross is not a victim, don't don't misunderstand that. He's really suffering, by all means worse than anything you and I can fathom, not just because of the physical but most especially the spiritual pain.
Speaker 5:Right, but Jesus is hunting on the cross. He's an ambush predator, which is the term for certain kinds of animals which lie motionless and still camouflaged with their environment for one reason to attract prey. And that's what he's doing. He's trying to get the enemy to come close and to bite and he bites, and the result of satan biting is he unknowingly undoes his own kingdom. So the fathers of the church used to talk about this all the time, that that it's only right that the one who deceived our race into you know, selling ourselves into slavery, should himself be deceived to bring about his own destruction.
Speaker 3:You know, there was a piece of me, to be honest, when I was like watching the rescue project, that I was impacted by it a lot. But I was also like, is he just really good at performing this, you know? But when he was here in the room and I think you'd probably see it on the video too there was such a humility in who he was before God and such a conviction that was almost palpable.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was palpable the moment him and the entourage rolled in. And at first I won't lie when he was like, yeah, I'm coming in, my associates will be there too, and all of that. And I was just like, oh my gosh, what are we walking into? We've got big shot. Yeah, coming in, headliner of the Discipleships Conference. Yeah, coming in, headliner of the Discipleships Conference. Yeah, coming in. I was like, okay, but they were some of the most genuine loving.
Speaker 3:Yeah, instead of being the entourage, it was just his two best friends that were sitting in the room with us.
Speaker 8:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:And fellow laborers that were very, yeah, super authentic.
Speaker 2:And they just really we talked so much about so many different things that were just like happening in our own personal lives and in our ministries and different things, like before the camera even got turned on, and it was just one of the quickest warmups, you know, because, like when you try to record a podcast, especially one of our nature, where it's just kind of like intimate and vulnerable and things like that, sometimes it's hard kind of like intimate and vulnerable and and things like that Sometimes. Sometimes it's hard to get catch that in a bottle without spending 45 minutes, like getting real about something first, but there's, it felt really instantaneous, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I felt like I don't know if you felt like you've backslided in your like mission, missionary work, you know, in your disciple making or spiritual multiplying, or proclaiming the gospel. That's a great shot in the arm kind of episode. Like I left with a conviction of like, yes, like when I'm concerned about how I should invest in this person or if they're all in, like I need to proclaim the gospel.
Speaker 2:The gospel has power, yeah gospel yeah, just, the gospel has power. Yeah, yeah, the gospel has power. 100. And also just the idea that we need to be rescued. Within the gospel, like he uses such visceral language of like like being a woman trapped in a sex trafficking ring and that jesus is the person who's just coming in, taking out, murdering, getting all the guards and opening the cage and saying like come follow me and you know. And like imagining the gratitude that a woman being saved from that situation could feel towards that person who sacrificed all of it for um, for her, and like that we need to have a similar view of that. Like that that's what happened to us and it's just, it's too easy to not have that perspective. But also like being willing to make that deep of a analogy when we're presenting to others. Like it was, it was just a masterclass. And like I've presented the gospel hundreds of times but, man, that one will like I love getting presented to yeah it was great.
Speaker 3:It was like getting the the rescue project in in a nice little bite-sized nugget nugget and getting to know the people behind it was great. It was like getting the rescue project in a nice little bite-sized nugget and getting to know the people behind it really well, and there's a nice little. If you've ever wondered how can I be a good friend to and minister to my priests that I love. There's a nice little segment on there, too, where he talked about that, and I thought that was really helpful as well too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just opening up and being real about like their needs and how we can serve them, which is an awesome thing that was a beautiful one.
Speaker 3:Yeah another headliner when we had Monsignor Shea and Archbishop Coakley at the end of our four part series on the University of Mary's work from Christendom to Apostolic Mission, like that was really, really enjoyable.
Speaker 6:And that's what we need to continually be attentive to. What are those ways in which the church in our own time can witness in an impressive fashion to the beauty and the truth of God's teaching and the exhilarating wonder and mercy of a life with God? And so I think that's, you know, one of the things that we have to be attentive to in terms of living apostolically.
Speaker 3:And a great culmination to the series. And, like I don't know, hats off to Monsignor Shea pretty busy schedule and his assistant in his office there. We didn't really plan ahead a lot to get him on Like it was just like okay.
Speaker 2:No, we were like we're doing this. Archbishop loves this book. Like it was just like okay.
Speaker 3:No, we were like we're doing this. Archbishop loves this book, we love this book, yeah. So we were just excited and I think we called him after we'd recorded episode two.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're really good, I want to affirm you. You're really good at like making the asks that like I, just that I'll write off. You're like Jace, you should go ask Bishop Conley to talk about his mental health sabbatical that he hasn't talked about at all on our podcast you know and I'm like okay. And you're like I'll call you Mary and see if we can get Monsignor Shea on, and that might've been like slightly before, like the book kind of like is where he became like keynote speaker for a whole lot of different conferences and things.
Speaker 2:But yeah, it was great to have the two of them. The thing from that episode that I reference more than anything else from the time that we had with Monsignor Shea is when he discussed coming to the beatification for Blessed Stanley Rother and he kind of he referred to it in a similar language that he uses in the book as a cultural inflection point for Oklahoma City and like getting to watch him and Archbishop like kind of discuss, like yeah, that's why we did it, you know, and figuring it out. But it really is like everything is very different in Oklahoma City and you could point all of it towards like the intercession of Blessed Stanley and everything that's been happening with that. So just like understanding the cultural aspects of that in particular, like I've used that over and over and over, yeah, it was pretty sacramental, you know, like kind of it's a visible thing, you know, pointing to an invisible reality.
Speaker 3:So there's the. You know, the blood of the martyrs is the seat of the church. So we have this martyr interceding for us in a very missionary way. But yeah, that was such a great moment because there were tons of I mean probably a thousand people that at least they couldn't get in. We were full. Oh, it was more than that.
Speaker 2:Did we turn our way? 20 K people or something like that?
Speaker 5:No, it was a lot.
Speaker 2:I'm pretty sure it was five digits.
Speaker 3:I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be surprised because all the local areas were, all the local restaurants and bars were like full of people watching it on TV and close proximity yeah it was.
Speaker 2:It was absolutely insane.
Speaker 3:The uh. No, that was a really beautiful episode and I think, um, what's neat about that episode or that series is we didn't highlight as an episode, but we had, uh, sue Ryan on on here talking about, like, classical education and what they're doing within the program at McGinnis and she was sharing that. A friend shared this series with her and then she picked up the book and she was like, oh wow, like, if the age has changed, like what am I supposed to do? Like if we were in a Christian of Mage at some point and we're clearly far into an Apostolic Age, like how should I respond? So it was really neat, like just shout out to the whole audience for anyone who's responded to that work and to the Archbishop's encouragement of us reading it, cause, um, it's really great and a little preview, I yeah, there's a sequel.
Speaker 3:Yeah, jason, and I plan to cover the book. What is it? The religion of the day? Is that what it's called? That's also written by you, mary, with, uh, once in your shaving, a big contributor to it. So we're excited to yeah we're gonna bring him back.
Speaker 2:You guys, we're gonna get him back on. He sent it to us. He did yeah, with like little cards, nice little note. You know, he spent half an hour with us, you know, and that was really cool, yeah um but another episode of his that is that or that is heavily influenced by him was the men's conference talk.
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah, that he gave on on work and leisure.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I love that one so, as jace was mentioning, he had it separated between work, leisure and integration. Right, how to integrate the concept in each of these? And so that first tier, the attitude or mode, as jace mentioned, of work is a work is just a job, it's just getting. I just need to get money so I can pay my bills, right. And then we have leisure, and the concept of leisure that is associated with that is escaping or amusement, right, like, I get my job, so I can get money, so I can have fun on the weekend, and then I just go right back into my you know, my drab job, and then the integration of that is right Gratification I have a job for money to amuse myself on the weekend, so I can, you know, survive another week of five days of misery and then repeat the cycle.
Speaker 2:Which was just like an incredible understanding of like proper prioritization and like the. I remember there's like three different levels. I don't remember what they were.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the, the, the. At the first level it was like work is I?
Speaker 2:you hate it?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I hate it and I basically work to to be able to afford to play like I work, right for the things that I want. You know, it's just like this utilitarian tool, um, and then like leisure. In that level one was like just escaping life, you know. So it's like I work so that I can escape life better like like the level one.
Speaker 3:And then level two is like my work is sort of a careerism reality, Like I have, yeah, that my worth is in, yeah, and so I'm like the work I do is to keep growing there. And then rest was so I could be better at work, Right. And so he like called out a book that I bet a lot of us like like Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. There's a part in there that talks about sharpening the saw and he's like which. It means, like you know, getting better so that you can be better, you know getting better, so you can be yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Refining yourself so that you can be better at work.
Speaker 3:And he was like hey, sharpening the saw good thing, but that's work, not rest, and I think you can almost feel in the men's conference room like a lot of guys be like, yeah, career is everything that's important to me and I do rest so I can get better at working. It was pretty fun. And then I think the last one was the thing I loved that he pointed out about. Career is like the meaning of the word. He was like it means to take you somewhere, like the career's for something, like it's to take you on, like the career's for something, like it's to take you on a path, and so actually, like the work is for you, the work is for your vocation, and then, yeah, work at the last one was vocare, like a calling, to like live out a calling. And then rest was something he divided us, he invited us into as holy leisure, contemplative leisure, was what he invited into.
Speaker 3:so like you know, a book, a run time with family, like these times where you're not actually escaping but you're even more present, and uh yeah, unpacking all those on that episode is yeah really worth a.
Speaker 2:I mean, I remember when we were at the men's conference, like we walked out with like six of our friends and then sat at a table and just talked about that, yep, the rest of the day.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we ended up missing the third speaker because we spent like 90 minutes just like reflecting on how real that was in our life. Super great episode That'd be fun to try and have have. I wish you had that talk recorded out somewhere. I guess you could. We could get it from the men's conference somewhere.
Speaker 2:Yeah, get it from Ray.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, another great one. Oh, here's trivia, james. There is one episode that we've only. There's one room where we've only recorded one episode. That's right.
Speaker 3:Do you?
Speaker 2:remember what episode.
Speaker 3:The Parlor. Yeah, and that was on the letter that Archbishop wrote about the unity of body and soul, right yeah?
Speaker 2:And honestly, I think that one was a historical episode for us, because that's where we Is. That where we recorded video the first time, every sort of. It was the first time that we recorded somewhere, not in our studio, and it was really, really good.
Speaker 9:I'd like to start even a step before that the fact that we are created. We're creatures, we don't create ourselves. We receive our being from God, who has formed us out of nothing, who has created us in his image and likeness, as the church teaches, as the book of Genesis clearly articulates. So we are created by God. We receive our being from God, in his image and in his likeness, and, as humans, that means we have certain powers of the soul, if you will, that are part of our likeness to God our intellect, our understanding. It gives us the ability to grasp the truth. Our will, it gives us the opportunity and the ability to strive toward the good, to choose the good to love. Those are some of the powers and the ability to strive toward the good, choose the good to love. Those are some of the powers of the soul that liken us to God. That is unique to us as human beings, as human persons, male and female. That's part of our way of manifesting the richness and the fullness of divine life that is in God.
Speaker 2:I liked it. Another thing before we dive into that episode, I just had a random thought there. There's a time with covet where, like it was so, it was so covety that we were recording episodes in our earbuds from home. Yeah, I remember that, yeah, which was a which was kind of a wild thing as well, like I remember, sitting like in my bedroom, yep, like I think we were doing, we were, we were kind of doing live lexio divina essentially over a few easter.
Speaker 3:We like we were easter people or something, yeah, um, that was just a memory that I had that was a good memory, yeah, and I remember I had like a I'll call it a clophus, like a front, like an office in our front bedroom that I'd like emptied out and it was still only like a three by three or whatever, but I would stand in there and record because my kids were at the house and you would hear them if I was like just in my bedroom.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean shout out to producer Avery for like making mashing that all together, I mean he's been. He's been the mastermind of all of this.
Speaker 3:Yeah, did we have to record stuff on our phone and send it to you, or how did you do that? I don't even know how you did that. That was pretty impressive, it was impressive.
Speaker 2:It was absolutely impressive him being able to do that. But on the unity of body and soul in the parlor on Archbishop's letter, which was a cool thing because the whole point of this podcast starting was because Of the first episode Of the first pastoral letter. So it was like going back to the roots of like why does this podcast exist? Almost being able to like really discuss that. But I mean, it was so like there aren't a whole lot of other bishops who've taken a similar, like written stance on it. And then, like, having it as well researched as it was and having both again, father jerome was there too. Um, you know, with, uh, with archbishop coakley. Oh, my favorite moment from that episode I remember um, this was pre, when, like this was, this was full-blown, do father jerome, where he had the flow Hair, do the hair do? And I remember making a joke about it and Archbishop, kind of like you know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was almost the dynamic of like kid in school who has violated the dress code on the hair length and principal or teachers sort of calling him out on it. Yeah, yeah, I know.
Speaker 2:It was a really funny moment. I like texted him afterwards I was like, hey, I'm sorry I put your hair on blast in front of Mark's picture and I opened the episode that way yeah.
Speaker 5:That's what I did.
Speaker 3:It was a pretty good icebreaker.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I just like I just jumped right in and like didn't talk to him about it, didn't ask, was just like I'm doing it, you know.
Speaker 3:So I remember that one yeah he kind of Artrisha made that kind of, and I think he was being playful like sort of the judging comment about it or whatever. But then he also made a joke or a jab at it a little bit later. Yeah, it was kind of funny yeah.
Speaker 2:But it was just super, it was super forming. I feel like that letter and the conversation that we had reframed and reframed the entire idea behind the debate for transgender, because I think in our culture, in our one side or the other polarized thing, like we, we make them the enemy. Yeah, they have the their agenda and they're writing bad books and putting them in our libraries and putting it, sneaking it into our kids' television shows and all that. And there is a sense of where there's like we're fighting a genuine evil there in the ideology. But I feel like it just like humanized. Yeah, he did a very great job.
Speaker 3:The struggles of the person who's struggling with the letter in the episode. Just a really great job of not avoiding the ideological problems and addressing them, but really entering into the pastoral reality of these are human persons made in the image of God and um, yeah, I think you're right. I think we both almost said the same thing at the same time in the episode of, like, you know, this person, like even the person propagating the ideology, right, Like, so, not necessarily someone kind of caught up in the suffering and confusion of it all, Um, they're the prize, not, not the, not the enemy. Um, the enemy we can't see. And yeah, that was a really beautiful episode and great. I would encourage anyone who's curious on how a Catholic should respond to that. The letter and the episode are certainly thought provoking.
Speaker 2:Definitely. Yeah, that was a fun trip down memory lane.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that was a fun trip down memory lane. Thanks for going there with us, and if the audience has, like particular requests for things we cover or people we have on, we'd love to hear your input. We've got an email address right that folks can send it to. Yeah, avery will put it in there. So, we'll have our email address in the show notes, but feel free to like leave a review or comment and suggest that as well.
Speaker 2:All right. Well, this has been Red Dirt Catholics. I'm Jace and I'm James. We'll see you next time. Take care, thank you.