Red Dirt Catholics
Join Jayce, James and guests from "Red Dirt" Oklahoma as they discuss what evangelization and discipleship looks like in real life.
Red Dirt Catholics
AirPod to the Heart
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Jayce and James are joined by a mystery special guest (you'll either be excited, disappointed or indifferent) to discuss how it feels to be a sheep without a shepherd and Apple's technology and marketing partnership with God.
Register now for the 2025 Discipleship Conference for the Archdiocese of Oklahoma City! This full-day, bilingual event will feature amazing speakers, breakout sessions, adoration, Mass, confessions, vendors and more at the Oklahoma City Convention Center on Saturday, August 9. Register now to get the early-bird price at OKDisciple.org.
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Links and other stuff from the show:
Pastoral Letter, "On the Unity of the Body and Soul:" archokc.org/pastoral-letters
Red Dirt Catholics Email Address: reddirtcatholics@archokc.org
The Book "From Christendom to Apostolic Mission" (Digital and Print): Amazon
The Social Dilemma: https://www.netflix.com/title/81254224
Daily Examen Prayer: https://bit.ly/309As8z
Lectio Divina How-To: https://bit.ly/3fp8UTa
Hi guys, welcome to Red Dirt Catholics. This is Chris Beck. Today we have our special guest, james and Jace.
Speaker 3:Hey guys, this is wrong. Switch me, no, I want the big chair Switch me now.
Speaker 2:Now I gotta lean forward into the microphone.
Speaker 3:That was incorrect on so many levels. You found a way to mess it up in the first five seconds, Chris.
Speaker 2:The first take was fine. I thought it was great.
Speaker 3:Well, it's great having you back. Man, how long has it been since we kicked you out of the podcast?
Speaker 2:oh gosh, the podcast. It's probably been. We were talking about this in the car. I don't think I've podcasted since my son, ignatius, was born and he's two next month, so it's been. It's been a minute? Yep, it's been a minute I ditched, you guys, for the great state of texas, texas, a few months ago and you're not even in P-Town anymore thank you for acknowledging that it's called P-Town.
Speaker 3:I appreciate that just for you, buddy, for this special time.
Speaker 1:I think the main change is we've had some people reach out and say like I miss the Chris bashing so we haven't been able to, so we blew our speaker budget to get Chris here so that we could bash him for all of you. I think Father Irwin at least is one who really appreciate our Chris jabs jabs exactly.
Speaker 2:You only want me back to abuse me verbally anyway. Today we're talking about love and fraternal bonding.
Speaker 3:No, I'm sorry. So you moved. Why did you move? Catch us up on life, chris, yeah.
Speaker 2:So long story short, why we moved. None of our family lived in Ponca. My family's up in Ohio and Michigan, jenna's family's all down in South Texas where we live Lake Jackson it's cool to say and weird to say at the same time. But a job opportunity came for my wife to transfer.
Speaker 1:It's no P-Town, don't worry. Pauka City has my heart.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, a job opportunity came up and it was great for her and she really wanted to do it and it was going to get us a paid move to be close to family. So if we had to pick to be near family might as well get paid to do it. So we did, so I have. I did not get transferred, st Mary's and Father Carson didn't come with me. But, yeah, other than that, oh, I experienced my first hurricane, hurricane Beryl. There's only a cat one and that's what they call it down there cat cat one, and it knocked down my fence. So I'm a little bitter about that, that's it. I've been getting involved in our Catholic school. I don't care about you, I was talking about the hurricane, that's all it did.
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah, we were all praying for you and worried about you.
Speaker 2:Oh well, there's still people without power, who didn't have clean drinking water and who are still struggling.
Speaker 3:Most people are good. Well, those things are. But yeah, I mean our house was. That sounds real, so your prayers were answered.
Speaker 2:Hey, yeah our prayers were answered by our fantastic in-laws, who have a very nice generator, so we just went over to their house while they were on vacation and had power the whole time. I mean, yeah, we didn't get to live in our house for a week, but we weren't powerless in lifts in the Texas heat either, so it was so did you have to like board up the windows?
Speaker 3:so like how does hurricane differ from tornado?
Speaker 2:from tornado okay so that's the thing, because her see hurricanes.
Speaker 3:In my opinion, this is a hot take. For me, hurricanes are stupid in comparison to as far as their danger level, at least as far as loss of human life level, because you can just go away you see it coming a mile away like drive you know your house might go down but like purely from a no human life thing.
Speaker 2:You're right loss, loss of property, and I thought the same thing, because I'm like, uh, I was just talking with my wife and she's like, yeah, and like it only looks like it's a cat one, so there's no need to evacuate, and like, do we do anything? Uh, and then we, then we were driving to the grocery store and, uh, we got to the grocery store, it looked like it was abandoned. All the windows, they just like, were covered with boards and the doors were like sealed. And I was like, oh, and then I started driving by. Everyone has like these pre-built boards with special hooks it's a thing down there and they to cover up up. I did not know that, so we did not, but thankfully none of our windows broke, but I did find out, so I was telling people. I was like, yeah, I'm from Oklahoma, we know tornadoes, and tornadoes are so much more powerful. They're way faster and more dangerous.
Speaker 1:I was so wrong.
Speaker 2:No, no no, I wasn't saying it like bragging, like I don't know nothing about, no, no, so yes, you can just like leave. Tornadoes are fierce, but they're so isolated, you know, like wherever the tornado hits, house is gone. Hurricane houston floods houston is an hour and a half north from from, uh, from land and people still get affected. So it's just like more widespread, you know, even though it's not like as devastating, wind wise, in terms of like calamity elsewhere. Yeah, oh interesting, it's kind of wild much larger.
Speaker 2:And then and then you got on a flight and then, yeah, I got on a flight and here I am so happy to be here here you are, and how?
Speaker 3:how are the kiddos? They are give us we're getting the full update. Yeah, no that's okay.
Speaker 2:well, you can't have the full update, just kidding.
Speaker 3:Can't handle the truth, you can't.
Speaker 2:You can't handle the truth. So, yeah, no, my son and daughter. They're going to turn four and two next month, so super excited because we have a bounce house. What's funny is we didn't tell Faustina that we were going to get a bounce house. We were just like what do you want for your birthday? And she's like, listening off, like I want a mermaid, I want a mermaid robot. She's insistent that there's a mermaid robot. Yeah, I don't know what it is and she doesn't watch much TV, so I know she's not seen advertisements. And she's like and I want a bounce house. And we're like Jen and I looked at each other. How did you Okay, well, yeah, maybe we can make that work Did you tell her that we had a birthday? I?
Speaker 2:didn't tell her. So no, their birthdays. It's crazy, they're going to celebrate their birthdays next month. I'm trying to get really involved in our church, St Michael's Lake Jackson Shout out. Not as great as St Mary's because I love St Mary's. Has a place in my heart. I can say that because I love St Mary's. But, yeah, just been living life as like a stay-at-home Catholic dad now because, like I said, Jenna got transferred. I didn't get transferred, so that's been a shift. Yeah, just figuring out how to be shepherded by the Lord in a new place new environment with no friends, so I'm making some friends.
Speaker 3:I got to put him on blast in the podcast so maybe like two months or so after they move down there where I'm scrolling through Facebook and I see Chris's wife Jenna post on Facebook like, says like does anyone know any young Catholic couples in the? Houston area we're looking for people to, we're looking for a community and the entire group chat was just like Chris can't make friends.
Speaker 2:The best part about this is that I so my wife wakes up super early, so she posted this in the morning before work. I found out about it not from her, from the group chat, just like laying into me.
Speaker 1:What a loser. You can't find any friends.
Speaker 2:Is it working? I'm like what are you talking, talking about? And then, of course, I see it on facebook, and later that afternoon is, finally, when my wife texts me and she's like um, by the way, uh, I don't think you'd be upset, but even if you did, it's already too late. But I did, and then she told me what she did. It's like, no, it's okay, I'm not upset.
Speaker 1:All my friends are but but it's okay, it's fun.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's funny because it like didn't work shocker, yeah, throwing something into the internet no, I mean like a few people, um, who jenna knew. It's because this is where jenna grew up, in lake jackson so, and she's kind of a name because she was a state wrestling champion. So it's funny when they say, uh, like, who's your wife? Oh, jenna beck, she used to be jennaarsky, why did you say so? It's like, oh, everyone knows the Pasarskys.
Speaker 3:How does it feel to not have any clout anymore?
Speaker 2:Dude it's, so it's funny.
Speaker 1:Okay, you're firmly Jenna's husband. It's a toy. Do you want to change your last name?
Speaker 2:Two more For those who watched the Office office, that was the perfect.
Speaker 3:Michael scott face no so what was the question, chris pisarski?
Speaker 1:no, stop, don't put that in the air oh yeah, we're gonna start referring to him, so it's it's so funny, you don't know, I mean so cliche, you don't know what you have.
Speaker 2:Until it's gone, I didn't realize people just Catholic people at least knew who I was in Oklahoma City, just because I've been around here for a while and I've done the podcast with y'all and worked for a church. So people at the church worked for me and it was just so weird to not walk into St Michael's and people just being like do you want to lead a Bible study? Do you want to help me with discipleship? Do you want to do this? Do you want to do that? They're just like hi, welcome, have a seat, and then maybe they'll give me a look. Sometimes when my kids are screaming and I refuse to take them to the back, but other than that, it's like I don't know. It's like do you know? I?
Speaker 2:know, I know things I can help you. Parish could be if you just asked. It wasn't meant to sound like that.
Speaker 2:It was just. It's so weird because you guys understand it. If you are a young man, especially if you don't have a ring on, if you are a young man and you know let's say 35 and under and you go to a daily mass, you are going to be sworn by a whole bunch of like sweet old ladies, sweet old men and even whoever else is there being like have you thought about going to seminary? Like we need someone to help. Like lead our vacation Bible school. Like they just want they see that, oh, he cares.
Speaker 1:He wants to be.
Speaker 2:He's a man of faith. Let's get this guy involved. But when you have kids and a wife and you just are new to the parish, one only a couple of people have even said hello so far, so far. So we got to work on that, uh. But two, yeah, just like everyone's like oh, they got their vocation figured out. Like you know, if they want to help, they'll, they'll volunteer, but they don't pest you anymore. So it's like being married and not being known has been like just weird transition. Like when you go to new parish, people are just like oh, welcome, I like your kids. They look really cute. What are their names? Okay, have a good day. It's like, oh, is this what normal people's lives are like? Is?
Speaker 3:this how I've, only is this how the plebeians. Now what's?
Speaker 2:now. What's funny, though, is it's so it's hard, because I acknowledge that that's probably it might be like the norm, but as a I mean I'm only 32. The only big boy jobs I've ever had outside of like college has been for the church as a missionary or for a church worker. So I've always been known wherever I've gone, like in the church or the office or here at the pastoral center, and now I'm just like another parishioner, just a regular guy, do you find it?
Speaker 1:in some ways it could be disorienting and probably good for you, right, but in other ways could it also be kind of restful, like you're just, you're not being asked to be working.
Speaker 2:It has been bliss. I'm telling you yeah, and I think why is? Because it gives me one of the things I used to complain about all the time, whether I was in focus or working for the church. And you guys probably feel the same way to a certain extent or have felt you feel hamstrung, you want to do X, y and Z, but you have to give so much of your time to this project or to that. But now I have total freedom. It's like if I want to just invest all my time in like creating a men's young Bible study of like others, you know, young dads or even like single men, I could do that all my time all my efforts just to that.
Speaker 2:I like when St Paul says in Scripture like we've devoted ourselves to the preaching of the gospel, like he's. Like you, deacon, you stay here, you take care of the widows and the children and the orphans, but we're just going to go preach. That's my job is to go preach. And now I guess I just kind of feel like I have that freedom. Whatever God wants me to do, I can just dive in. I mean, as long as it doesn't interfere with nap time.
Speaker 2:But aside from that, yeah, I think there just been like a lot of freedom in what I, what I can do how long do you give him this stage?
Speaker 3:for my honeymoon phase like not so much a honeymoon phase, but how long do you think it'll take for the parish to be like oh you gotta step up, you gotta step up, you gotta do stuff. Two years, he'll figure it out by then. He'll have launched four Bible studies by then probably.
Speaker 2:Why does that guy keep kneeling when he receives communion? Don't you take it on your hand, like you're supposed to? Who is that?
Speaker 1:guy, I don't know. Yeah, one to two, one to two years probably, I think. If Chris is faithful though there's a good chance I mean the you know. Faithful though there's a good chance, I mean the constraints of vocation, don't let you be like abundantly available everywhere, like there's a good chance, like you'll find your little spot, you know and you can. But I'm sure at 18 months he'll have to actually say no to things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, which I am not known for, by the way. So say michael's, if you're listening please one at a time.
Speaker 3:Yeah, james and I went to, uh, we went to the zoo yesterday with our boys, which was pretty, which was pretty darn fun it's pretty epic. Yeah, so we, we get in. And I don't know, peter's just kind of has that driver mentality within stuff. He's like I want to do this. He's also a firstborn and doesn't have competition, so that probably helps.
Speaker 3:But so we're like, hey guys, what do you want to go see? And peter's like the Red Pandas or the park. And then we were asking James' kids and they were like, sounds good, there wasn't much in the way of that, so the goal was to go to the Red Pandas, which just happens to be. It is the farthest part away.
Speaker 2:The farthest point from the entrance.
Speaker 3:So we just are slowly making our way there, and our boys haven't gotten to hang out a ton, so it's always every few months that they kind of have to start over. But after a couple of hours Peter and Grayson were enjoying each other's company and hanging out. But then, just as guys do, they just start competing with each other, and so they're a little ways off.
Speaker 3:James and I are talking about whatever, and then I just see Peter going like they're trying to figure out who's taller and Grayson was having none of it, but Peter was stacking the deck because Grayson's a little older and a little taller, I don't know, probably three inches taller.
Speaker 2:It wasn't huge I stopped doing that about like fourth grade. I always lost.
Speaker 1:There's no chance there's no sense in measuring this. It was right, it was funny, it was right. There, the oklahoma trail, there's a spot where they have like the eagles, like wingspan, you know, and so it was right after that, and then they started, you know, trying to figure out who was taller boys at the zoo.
Speaker 2:What was so? What was the paper part?
Speaker 1:I'm assuming not necessarily the red panda well, it would have been the red panda if the red panda were there.
Speaker 1:No, we walked all the way and the red panda wasn't the lord knew you guys just needed some calories burned that day, which I did like I might have jinxed this, but like right, we were probably 70 percent of the way there and I was like jace, Jase, how much you want to bet the red panda's not there? He was like the red panda's always been here when I've been here I was like I've come to the red panda and not seen it before. So was I mean.
Speaker 3:Who knows, I was going to say like what's he doing if he's not?
Speaker 1:Well, if you were a zookeeper, wouldn't you?
Speaker 2:I don't know how they've survived. They just like fall out of trees. They're so funny to watch. I would just want to hang out with like the real pandas, but yeah.
Speaker 1:Just to make you feel better about yourself.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean basically I think their favorite, I think the biggest hit near the red pandas is a is a series of water fountains.
Speaker 1:It's kind of like a splash pad without all the ground. Yeah, so the favorite part.
Speaker 2:wasn't even an animal? Probably not.
Speaker 3:Should have went to a water park, so we get there, yeah, basically, so we get there and we walk by it the first time and Peter's like Dad, let me go play now. I'm like we're two miles from the. You'll be dry by the time we get to the car. Sure just starts running through it. Yeah, having them, having the time of his life, um, and then meanwhile, grayson and theo and gabriel were like everyone was just kind of watching like I don't know if I want my normal clothes wet.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they were like I don't know, and so then. So then we kept going and when we went and saw the the non-existent panda, but there was komodo dragon there was. So that was, so that worked, so that worked. But then we came back and peter was like, can I do it again? And I'm like sure, and so he's doing it, and everyone's kind of everyone's getting closer, like me, james, and then james like put his head in at one point and then, and then it was chaos they all they all started running through and dad did it fair
Speaker 1:game. Yeah, I think I put my head in and then it's like grayson, you can put your head in if you don't want to get all the way wet, and he puts his head in and then, like one second after he puts his head in because he got his whole back wet. He was just running through all of them just like beer, and then I love it and then we were there for 20 minutes that's awesome, it's like the whole first follower thing. You know, right, you've seen that video.
Speaker 3:No, there's like a there's like a video on youtube that shows like they're at like a music festival or something, and there's a there's a whole crowd around and then one dude just starts dancing like crazy and it's just full bore, no holds barred, and then everyone's just standing there and watching them and it's like painful to watch, like you're like, wow, this guy's a total loser, basically, as you're watching it and then a certain amount of time goes by and then one person joins and then the entire. Like five seconds after that, one person joined, the first follower and it became a crowd or cool, the entire crowd goes into it. So it's this leadership principle and discipleship.
Speaker 1:It's a really cool lesson Cause when you think about it, like, let's say, one of us is doing what we know the Lord wants us to do at our parish no one's joining Like if you can withstand it until you get one first follower, like everyone who was watching was split. Like part of me is kind of judging this because I don't know that I want to go there, but a big piece of me really wants to jump in with you, but I'm scared. One follower goes in. Okay, I want to do that too.
Speaker 2:That's so true. I'm going to ponder that for a while.
Speaker 3:That might be a good transition. Speaking of following, yeah speaking of following. So today we're talking about the good shepherd and being shepherded and interacting with those who don't have a shepherd or are not paying attention with their shepherd. So Psalm 23 is kind of the big basis for that Psalm 23 is a big basis.
Speaker 1:We could read that. But also what kind of brought it to mind was I don't know when this will air, but a recent Sunday's reading the gospel refers to us being sheep as well. At the end of it, after Jesus is tired and speaking to the crowds, the gospel writer says his heart was moved with pity for them, for they were like sheep without a shepherd, and he began to teach them many things. And like full confession for me and those of you who have kids who would understand this. I was at mass, five o'clock mass on a Sunday. The audio was out, I couldn't really hear the homily and my kids were being crazy and I was just like this homily is doing nothing for me. I can't even hear it, and so I took my mind back to the gospel and that kind of replayed it in my mind and the sheep without a shepherd just kept playing there. So I just chose to dialogue with God about it and not listen to the homily, because I couldn't hear it.
Speaker 1:But anyway, what the Lord? Like the first question he asked, and I'd love for you listeners to ponder this and the three of us to discuss. But the first question, like I heard from God, was sort of like okay, I made you all to be sheep. If you were made to be sheep, what's it like when you don't see me? What, like, how do you behave when you don't see me? And yeah, so just a personal question, but also you can apply that to others too. Like, if we're made to follow and we're not following the main guy, jesus, what else would our heart want to follow? How else would we?
Speaker 2:behave. You know, I think that's one of the things that I dislike most about myself is like you. You asked um, you know how do we behave like when you don't see me? Because the thing about sheep with a good shepherd they know if the shepherd needs to go away for a while, he's coming back and they know just stay put. You know, do don't. You know what I've told you just stay put. I'm the sheep that as soon as I hear the shepherd leave, I'm like okay, well, clearly he abandoned me. My life is over and I know it's something that God wants me to work on. But sometimes hearing this gospel makes me think like are you ever going to look at me with pity?
Speaker 3:Because I need it.
Speaker 1:I want pity. I'm pitiable. Please pity me.
Speaker 2:I need to see you and to know. But then the reason why I dislike myself so much is on the flip side. When god is there in front of me and he is shepherding me just as a man, I don't like to be prodded and told where to go and what to do and what his plan is for my life lead me, yeah, when I the way I want, to be like when I'm in the mood, when I'm in the mood to be led, when I'm in the mood to be led.
Speaker 2:This is now the Office Podcast.
Speaker 1:Welcome.
Speaker 2:Featuring your new host? No, but yeah, that's basically it. You know, when God's not around, when my shepherd seems distant Wow, you abandoned me like I don't know what to do with my life. Woe is me. But when he does try to like, lead me and guide me and he does it sometimes in really good, gentle ways I feel like, yeah, ryan, from the office, like no, no no, no, no, no, like this is my plan, lead me only when I want to be led.
Speaker 2:Right now I don't want to be led, but when I, when he doesn't lead me, then I'm like well, where are you? Why aren't you leading me? Just in my own interior life.
Speaker 1:I had a really similar kind of observation in prayer after that.
Speaker 1:It was like okay, well, sometimes, without thinking, I'm trying to follow all these things, like follow the approval of other people, like follow my own will, just because I'm made to be a sheep, I need to follow something, I need to be on a path and I'll just, instead of trying to find where Jesus is and and and finding peace and staying there and following him, I'm trying to find all these other things and fill it.
Speaker 1:But then, to your point, I realized like sometimes my choice will be to reject them as sheep and like think I'm a goat and I'm going to go off and venture on my own and jump over the fence and I'm probably going to get eaten by a wild animal. You know, like I'm probably going to get devoured right when I go away. So it was just interesting that I was seeing it. Like I feel like Jesus probably pities the sheep more. Who, like really wants to follow something but just doesn't know the voice of God yet and there might be more hope there actually, and so they're following this progressive thought, or they're following this political figure, or they're following what. They're putting that at the center, but then the like. Equally dangerous is like rejecting that I'm made to follow and sort of going on my own.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the first thing that I think of whenever I'm thinking about sheep and being shepherded and things, there's that meme, right, or a little short video where the sheep is like buried in the ground. Sorry, I didn't know what you're talking about and it's like I don't even know how he fit in this hole, but he is in there.
Speaker 2:He's like wedged in a crevice, wedged in a crevice with just his little hooves sticking out, yeah.
Speaker 3:And then you know the shepherd like grabs him by the hoof and like pulls him all the way out. And then you put it down and like the captions will say, like what Jesus does with me, and it's like all nice, but then and some of them will end it right there. But then there's the real ones who know what the Christian life is like, and it plays what happens to the sheep right after.
Speaker 3:And so the sheep is just bouncing around super happy, you can't believe it and, within 10 seconds, right back down, right back down into the crevice, and I think that there's a sense of like that's what I think about when I'm not wanting, or just when I, when I don't see the shepherd, is that I? I'm just, but on the winds, you know, left to my own devices, yeah, left to my back in that hole, back in that hole.
Speaker 1:yeah well, it's not so much like I'm not trying to go to that hole, it just happens. It always happens to me.
Speaker 3:But there's just like a sense of I'm just going to, I'm not paying attention. Yeah, like there's an asleep-ness. There's a Sleep-ness.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, like just non-alert, and like this sounds good, I will go do that, and that sounds good, I will do do that. And then it you know, and it all leads back to the crevice, man all roads lead to the crevice or crevasse.
Speaker 2:How do you say is it crevice? It is.
Speaker 1:I don't think it's crevasse Okay.
Speaker 2:Wow, piscinski, I don't think it's Anyway.
Speaker 1:We can call him Piscinski. This is not working out. We were going to call you Piscinski, all weekend.
Speaker 3:Piscinski, what's your last name? Again, I'm not telling you. We're going to mispronounce it.
Speaker 2:I don't want to lose my train of thought. The episode is about Shepard's guy, so you said not paying attention, and so, for those who don't know, I think I already said it my son is named after St Ignatius of Antioch, the first bishop of Antioch and disciple of John, not of Loyola.
Speaker 3:Well, hold on.
Speaker 2:But I do love saying the ages of Loyola, but I have found I understand his conversion so much more because now that we live in a world where it's so noisy all the time I just came out of an airport there's not one person that didn't have an AirPod in.
Speaker 2:If you're under the age of 40, you got an AirPod in Just one. You're talking to someone. They're just actively listening to music or an audio book or a podcast, watching YouTube reels, shorts, and when I just take like even 30 minutes, ignatius is napping Faustina's up coloring or something and it's just me in the house and all of a sudden I just feel like man, I feel really close to God, like he right here and he's just talking so clearly and I just think of in John 10, I am the good shepherd, you hear me and they know my voice. His voice is talking to me probably way more than I think it is and I'm complaining that it's not. But in reality I just have an AirPod in all the time and I'm just tuning God out because, just because you know he talks in the silence, we know that and I just hate silence.
Speaker 2:Uh, it makes it really easy to just reject the voice of god, like you said, and just not pay attention I love that.
Speaker 1:I think. I think that in in some sense, like the this gospel and the psalm, the quote you mentioned from john, the, the lost sheep, what jesus does with that, the I feel like the invitation is to accept that I'm a sheep and to listen to my shepherd, right, whereas, like if I, if I didn't do, if I didn't do both of those things, then I'd be totally lost. Like if I accepted I was sheep and just followed whoever was, just followed the whims of the day, doing what I think is best, and I'm never recentering to hear where the shepherd's going. And, to your point, it's actually easier just to turn the noise down, like, instead of like over-complicating following the shepherd. It's like, well, when am I checking back in with the shepherd? When Am I reducing the noise? Because I felt the same way.
Speaker 1:And you mentioned Ignatius. I'm going to quote Loyola, but he says an unexamined life, is life not worth living? And I feel like, as a sheep, it's, if I stick to the analogy like where the shepherd is is like a constant examine happening, like it's just like he's in the field Maybe he told us he's going away but like it's a constant reality of life. Yeah, as a human distracted by many things, worried about many things instead of the one thing necessary. Jesus, I can really get lost quickly, even though, to your point, he's constant. He actually has an airpod to our heart, right?
Speaker 3:you know, like he's constantly there. It's just like did we choose to turn it on and listen, producer avery, I want you to change the name of this episode and call it airpod to the heart, genius, genius, what uh man, you're just ambassador to gen z, just meeting the people where they're at gen z ambassador.
Speaker 2:All right, now we gotta get jace uh no uh, but it was funny.
Speaker 2:So you said something. Sorry, did you have something first? So, um, I don't remember your words specifically, but it made me think about something that my old teammate, dorian, told me. So, in prayer, he was my first year teammates, so shout out, dorian Arellano.
Speaker 2:I remember we would go to chapel every day for a holy hour at 9 am and remember I was still a baby Catholic at this point. I converted in 2013. I started work as a missionary in 2014,. So pretty new, but I just left focus, new staff training and going to the chapel. And I have my breviary, I have my prayer book, I have my Bible, I had my rosary and I had my phone because everything you know smartphones.
Speaker 2:And I remember talking with Dorian later in our house and he's like the goal of adoration is not to, like you know, pray all the things. He's like it'd be better if you could just go and not need anything. You just talk to God, and I can't tell you how many times I've reflected on that in my life. There have been so many times where I felt like I couldn't understand what God was trying to say. So I pull out a spiritual book or I and I dig through it or I try to listen to more Catholic podcasts. Maybe I'm not Catholic enough. I'm listening to all these Catholic podcasts, I'm reading all these Catholic books, I'm looking up all the lives of the saints and God's like over here, just come talk to me in the chapel. Like you said, I got the AirPod right to your heart, buddy, you don't need to try to dig.
Speaker 1:Not saying you can't do all those good things, but but they should accompany the prayer life, not be the prayer life.
Speaker 2:Yes, no, exactly, yeah that was a great summation and I know I get caught sometimes doing that where I know I need to go to adoration. I don't really want to, but I'm going to go, but I don't want to be bored. So I'm going to bring my spiritual reading book that I like to read, just so I have something to entertain myself catholically and still feel like a good person, versus being able to just sit in silence with Jesus for an hour.
Speaker 3:Wow, isn't it awesome that even though half the time when we go to prayer with the Lord we're thinking about ourselves, but somehow it's still efficacious for us.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:That is awesome.
Speaker 2:Like I'm coming in Thank God, literally. That is not blasphemy, you know like.
Speaker 3:I mean, I just keep you know, thinking about this within a sheep, and I also want to talk about Inside Out too, in response to what you were saying of you know, coming in, you know, is just like into a holy hour, is just like, is like a sheep orienting, like OK, there's a shepherd, I'll walk that direction and be in that place and like get close if I can and just like. It's just a, it's a posture, almost more than anything, and but the posture is like receptivity, like I am yours and I will follow you you know, okay, it's very I love that it's.
Speaker 3:It's very simple, um, of what we're looking towards there. But I was, as I was hearing chris talk about some of the obstacles in doing that in prayer, and like the thing that I was hearing reminded me of the Inside Out 2 movie, which is like it's a Pixar movie. It's about like emotions and different things, like it's got some good stuff, counselors really like it, and but there's a piece in this movie where, like the kid grows and like anxiety becomes like an emotion and eventually kind of like takes over in a little bit of a way, like in well-meaning ways, but um, but it just like everything is going haywire and the girl's core self, like the the in like.
Speaker 3:Maybe it's related to, like, the health of the soul. You could figure it out wherever you want to say it. But the belief of the person before anxiety took over was like I'm a great person, I have a great family, I love my friends. Those were the different things that were resonating within her and where all of her actions were coming from. But when this anxiety thing came in and like infected it all, um, just trying to do better and be better like the, the thing that became the core, the core belief of herself, was I'm not good enough. And that's, that's the crux of what was happening there. A little bit of like I'm not good enough, I need a book.
Speaker 3:I'm gonna have any of the rosary you know like and and we are is the reality, regardless of um how sinful we are. I'm so sinful, but we are just beautifully chosen and the shepherd's like uninterested, doesn't matter how often you run into the crevice. Um, uh, and that's just a really important thing to like.
Speaker 1:Note that you just being there and paying attention is the point I love that you mentioned this and, like our posture and disposition of heart and I had kind of a follow-up question, I wanted to ask us all. But I want to reframe what you just said through like an analogy of like kingship and that we're an heir to the king. So so like Jesus, the Trinity king of the universe, he invites us. Imagine he's a real king, he invites us into his. I mean not a real king, imagine he's an earthly king, imagine he's real.
Speaker 3:Imagine God is real for a minute. Guys Bear with us. Well, actually that might be helpful, like remind yourself he's real.
Speaker 2:Step one God exists.
Speaker 1:He's real, but, like, imagine it's in physical form and he's the King's inviting you into his home for dinner, right, because he and the pretense is he took interest in you, like he wants to know you, like this this air of mine is very interesting the anxious person who doesn't think they're good enough, and all of these things which I find myself being lots of times. I'm gonna take in, like like the things I've been working on and like the stuff that I'm proud of, and like I want to show them that, like, maybe I'm a general, I'm gonna take like all the after action reviews and all this um, the king wanted dinner.
Speaker 1:You know the king wanted to be us and so, like when we come to prayer, like the Lord, he just wants to be with us. He wants to tell us something, he wants to show us something. He really cares not that much about our after action review, the perfect things we're doing. You know. He really wants to be with us. So I want to. I want to ask the follow-up question. In the Psalm it says the Lord is my shepherd. I shall not want Airpod to the heart. There you go. We changed our title, so the psalm that accompanied the reading says the Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want. I'm just curious from you guys what's that say about the Lord that we shall not want? He's our shepherd, we shall not want, and what's that say about what? The Lord is my?
Speaker 2:shepherd. I shall not want. So on the second part of your question what does that mean for my interior? It kind of goes back to again what I was telling you, that my friend Dorian told me. I'm not there yet, I'm still working on it.
Speaker 2:But I remember having this conversation one time with a friend and we were talking about how I felt whenever I would sin even if it wasn't like a bad sin, even if it was maybe just like I had a bad week. I didn't get adoration that week or I hadn't really prioritized my prayer life the way I should have and just feeling like the scum of the earth right. And we were talking about how, as you're ascending Mount Carmel, as you're climbing your way to heaven, in this life, when you fall, you don't fall all the way down the mountain and even if you feel like you have, you know a quick confession or you know a quick repentance and God lifts you right back up, like he says to Saint Therese. You don't have to claw your way back to where you were just because you fell.
Speaker 2:And in my interior life, I know I struggle with, I know I don't need anything. I can, god, I just need you Not to oversimplify it but at the same time to oversimplify it. Padre Pio, I think, said it best Pray, hope and don't worry, chris, I got this. I'm your God. I'm kind of a king and I am real.
Speaker 1:You have got this.
Speaker 2:I'm your guy like I'm kind of a king and I am real. You have nothing to worry about. It's like well but low. I have all these worries. I said you have nothing to worry about, did I?
Speaker 1:yeah this really is the office podcast which, to your point, like in the same analogy, like if we were a general in the king's army or whatever, and he said you need not to worry about that, it's all been arranged, taken care of it. It Like you won it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, right.
Speaker 1:And so like he is more real, our king, than that analogy for sure.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the thing that, like the first thing that I shall not want thing. Well, two things it makes me think of. Like first thing is that Audreya Sade song, beautiful song, shall not want, which I always put on one. I need a good cry. Basically I'll put the AirPods into my ears and then it goes to my heart.
Speaker 2:There you go.
Speaker 3:I can't so just sit here. I just want to go home Only you, lord. And also a first reaction is just like Psalm 23,. When I was younger and was Protestant and in these Bible memorization classes and things called a wanna for those of you other converts out there, I distinctly remember the picture of the shepherd that they put on that thing. It's just kind of like a little cartoon shepherd thing but it just sticks out in my brain. But I mean, there's just claiming dominion over our heart is like what I am imagining.
Speaker 1:And like as a guy.
Speaker 3:I don't like being dominated or claimed or being a part of that dominion. There's a really natural resistance to that, to that receptivity. But I mean I feel like the Lord's desire for us in that is just to make it as easy as possible. But it's so easy that we just feel like we have to do extra credit work.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know I've always been a little bit jealous of the way that it seems like women have easier receptivity to the love of God, especially like oh my gosh, sisters, there's nothing better than a religious sister.
Speaker 1:They especially like oh my gosh sisters, there's nothing better than a religious sister, they're just like.
Speaker 2:they get to, just, they get to wed Jesus right, they just get to, like, receive his love and give him all of theirs. But yeah, like, as a man it's different, but the well it's never. It's not as funny. But yeah, the shall not want that you're talking about and just accepting, even though all we hear when we're bad or when we feel bad or sinful is you're worthless, you're useless, you're stupid, all these things is the fact that God made us so awesome that he just like you said, the king, all he wants to do is spend time with us because he thinks we're so dang interesting. Chris, you could talk to me for days and I would not get tired of it. I'm like are you?
Speaker 2:sure, have you heard me talk? I mean for those podcast listeners from the early seasons.
Speaker 1:Jason almost went, yeah right, but he's loving you a little more.
Speaker 2:And he's like no, no, you don't need to bring anything to impress me. Yeah, uh, but like you said, again like that male mentality I want to impress the king like let me show you what I've been doing and just for him to like not spit on it, but just be like. That's not what impresses me you impress me like, but I haven't been in adoration all week and my prayer life's been terrible.
Speaker 1:You impress me and I still love you, been in adoration all week and my prayer.
Speaker 2:Life's been terrible. You impress me and I still love you and I hate that because I know that, but all I think is like but I want to be worth your impressness.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean. Yeah, the idea of being worthy enough to go to prayer is a big thing. Yeah, that's tough.
Speaker 1:I feel like there's a double meaning to this. I shall not want, and for me the first conviction was like why are you doubting that the Lord's providence reigns over everything? Why do you, of little faith, doubt that I can take care of everything? That's the first thought. In some sense he's saying I shall not want because he's going to provide and so I need to re-ascend to him, believe that truth, truth. And in the other sense, the second phrase becomes easier if I'm already in that place. But like, the disposition of my heart should be from a place of believing that, like I really don't need anything. I really don't want anything, like there, there's no reason for me to want something, the thing that I think is disordered, or this off, or that will fulfill me, or that I'm not perfect enough in like, the Lord is actively providing for that.
Speaker 1:And you quoted, you mentioned you know St Therese, like I love her quote let nothing disturb you. Let nothing disturb you, let nothing frighten you. All things will pass away. God never changes. Patience obtains all things. Whoever has God lacks nothing. God alone suffices. And, like I guess, my prayer for us and for the audience and for all of us Catholics is Lord, can you make our hearts be that pure, please, To realize actually that thing that triggered me and I'm agitated or worried now it's not really that real.
Speaker 1:It's far less real you know it's in in nothing and actually let's take that, let's say a huge failure Like you, totally like a huge failure that you totally rock bottomed on, whether it be material or spiritual. Like, are you materially any different as a human? Like, did anything about your dignity or worth change? You know, like, let's say you, I made terrible decisions and gambled my whole life away on some silly investment and my family's poor like and and starving. Like, yeah, I failed on on the duty, but like, did anything change in my essence there? Did anything about my children's essence change?
Speaker 3:Still a sheep baby, yeah right.
Speaker 1:I'm still chosen in his you know? Yeah, clearly a sheep.
Speaker 2:It's been a while podcasters.
Speaker 1:But yeah, I don't know, I just wanted to kind of firm in on that Like so much stuff that I'm letting disturb me like it's not even real. It changes nothing about who I am and how he made me and the thing about that is and about who I am and how he made me.
Speaker 2:And the thing about that is and I know I'm harping on it, but it's because it's so noticeable in my own life and I know it probably would be to everybody else I don't remember what saint it was, maybe PO, but you can't stop on your path for every barking dog and we just allow too many dogs to bark at us.
Speaker 2:Again, I allow things to bother me that shouldn't bother me. I allow so much noise in my life that it just when I'm scrolling through social media and it's all political debate, this, this and this, and oh, the world is in catastrophe all of a sudden I'm anxious. I'm just worried about everything and I just see I hear more dogs barking and I'm intentionally bringing more things into my life that make me worry. Like God, can you, can you handle all this? Can you, can you deal with all this? Look how crazy the world is, look how crazy my life is. But if I just live my life and my me, my wife, my kids is like our little family bubble in our catholic parish bubble um and just move one day at a time, how much less would I be worrying? Will God take care of all my wants?
Speaker 3:And he will, and he does, and then at the same time.
Speaker 1:I think it'll be a virtuous cycle. The more we believe in that and the more we try to move our disposition that way, the more our heart actually legitimately doesn't want anything else. So it's not meant that we're not in need, but we like we've actually moved to a place like no, I actually don't want that person to like think I'm cool, like I want Jesus.
Speaker 1:And that's it, I want to love and be loved, and that's it. You know, I actually don't want to fix this problem. If the Lord wants it fixed, if the Lord desires it fixed, great. But I don't want that to be perfect. I want what Jesus wants for me in this moment, and so I think there's so much about our heart that can be transformed and help us to let him care for us.
Speaker 3:Yeah, trusting in the providence of the Lord being, you know, the key within all of that. And it's hard, like all of this is really hard and like the falling over and over again, and like it's just, it's super easy and it's super easy and I kind of want to leave with this exhortation that it's super easy to feel, because you fall within 10 seconds of being saved over and over again, that there's something substantially wrong with the way that you are attempting to follow the shepherd, but the Lord just desires you to follow him and get restored and be in an amazing place as a result of it.
Speaker 3:So there's just a—if you're struggling right now, there's—like keep struggling. You know it's really a perseverance thing and even though it's like I'm doing the same thing over and over again and it doesn't matter what I do and it's always going to be, you know like there's all of these things that we can say about ourselves, that it just isn't the point being with him is the point.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Patience obtains all things right.
Speaker 1:And so I would say just a slight reframe. It is perseverance, but it's a perseverance with patience, because we can't just willpower over the thing, right. And so it's a counter step to your point, jason. We need to stay in it. We need to keep receiving what's happening, except with the reality we're in, um, and not not like uh. Except with the reality we're in and not like totally check out or numb ourselves or avoid things, but stay in it. But we do need to relinquish. So inside the counter step, the main step we're driven to would be to overcome our own imperfections and try and be perfect. And we're going to exhaust ourselves again and find ourselves where we were again. But the reality of where we need to move there is a counter step where we actually do less.
Speaker 1:So if the shepherd is right now leading us there and I'm a awry and getting dangerous, I actually need to move more into the shepherd and actually let him carry me now, right, like I need. You know, it's like okay, we're going up the mountain and I'm falling down the mountain as a sheep and I'm getting hurt. Okay, and he, we got back up and we're walking again the mountain and I'm falling down the mountain as a sheep and I'm getting hurt, okay, and he. We got back up and we're walking again. It's happening again. It's like now it's time to be carried like elevator happening.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And so there's a movement, we don't give up. But we do realize like, okay, he's he could carry me here. I need to let him carry me.
Speaker 2:He can carry me as much as you want. You sure can. I'm carrying me as much as you want. You sure can Make a rule, you sure can.
Speaker 3:Well, this has been great, Chris. It's been great having you back again. Thanks, guys, come back anytime, all right.
Speaker 1:If you get it right, jace might. If you let Jesus carry you, jace might let you sit there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm still kind of bitter about that Only if Jesus is carrying you, but anyway.
Speaker 3:But yeah, I'm Jace, I'm James and I'm Chris, we'll see you next time.
Speaker 2:Oh, oh, oh, oh.