Red Dirt Catholics
Join Jayce, James and guests from "Red Dirt" Oklahoma as they discuss what evangelization and discipleship looks like in real life.
Red Dirt Catholics
Faith Osmosis
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Jayce and James sat down with Fr. Rick Stansberry, rector of the Cathedral of Our Lady of Perpetual Help and president of Bishop McGuinness Catholic High School in Oklahoma City, to talk about the role of the faith in a Catholic high school.
Register now for the 2025 Discipleship Conference for the Archdiocese of Oklahoma City! This full-day, bilingual event will feature amazing speakers, breakout sessions, adoration, Mass, confessions, vendors and more at the Oklahoma City Convention Center on Saturday, August 9. Register now to get the early-bird price at OKDisciple.org.
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Links and other stuff from the show:
Pastoral Letter, "On the Unity of the Body and Soul:" archokc.org/pastoral-letters
Red Dirt Catholics Email Address: reddirtcatholics@archokc.org
The Book "From Christendom to Apostolic Mission" (Digital and Print): Amazon
The Social Dilemma: https://www.netflix.com/title/81254224
Daily Examen Prayer: https://bit.ly/309As8z
Lectio Divina How-To: https://bit.ly/3fp8UTa
So Father, how much of a sports guy are you?
Speaker 2:I mean to some extent yeah, I'm a sports guy, you're to an extent I'm just too ADD to watch a whole game.
Speaker 1:Ah, too, add to watch a whole game that makes sense. So, ou OSU, where do your loyalties lie?
Speaker 2:well, of course, my favorite team to root for was obviously notre dame, but I did go to ou for grad school, so, yeah, I'll probably owe you, yeah how about that, james? What do you?
Speaker 1:think about that god's country I winning. I would say it's the wrong choice.
Speaker 3:But uh, I did grow up cheering for ou, but my parents met at ou um we're not for you, you wouldn't be here exactly yeah, I have a lot to think and I've lived in norman and the community around st thomas moore pretty stellar yeah, it's actually in our diocese yeah, that's fair, that's also my dad always sent a ou stamp why?
Speaker 2:notre dame well, because I think ideally, I mean, notre dame is just kind of has that reputation one they're always usually pretty good, but also it's just it's whether, whether you like it or not, it's kind of the catholic school of the us. I mean that when people think catholic college, you know they don't, they don't go to slough or maybe loyola, they think of Notre Dame.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I feel you on that. So you're at McGinnis now. You're a part of the mega sports complex that McGinnis is. Do you have any stories from being at? I assume you go to the games sometimes, whether it be football or I think your volleyball team is especially good, yeah. I think they always win right. I see the social media posts every year of the volleyball team with Archbishop and their trophy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're good. Yeah, I was at one not too long ago and just sitting in the stands and it was at that part in the beginning, when they're like practicing and the balls are going all over the place.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I'm just watching and actually I'm on my phone and all of a sudden wham, this ball just beelines clear across the gym and just smacks me right in the nose, breaks my glasses and some people around me started laughing. They go well, we wouldn't have believed that had we not seen it. Can you see without your glasses? I can Not great, but I can. In fact I had another pair, and these are my old pair because I haven't got the other ones fixed yet.
Speaker 1:Wow, yeah, so you just got smacked. Was it someone from the other team or was it someone from the McGinnis team that clipped?
Speaker 2:you. It was one of the McGinnis people. They were just practicing?
Speaker 1:They were just practicing. Did they apologize, did they?
Speaker 2:get a suspension? No, I don't think they even knew, because there's just balls flying everywhere Just going all over the place.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:It was just balls everywhere. That was good for your humility.
Speaker 2:Yeah, whack, I'm just imagining it. I can't believe that just happened.
Speaker 3:Did anyone catch it on film? That'd be a nice little reel we could put on our social media.
Speaker 1:There was one time where we were playing, I was reffing for the Catholic Young Adult Sports League for their volleyball deal and a similar thing happened. It was either dodgeball or volleyball and it just came clear across and just knocked me off. Thank me, my glasses didn't break.
Speaker 3:Most of the sporting events I'm at, the parents notice they're far away from the kids warming up, because seven, eight year olds oh yeah, they control the baseball.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's gonna go. Who knows where it's gonna go? Um, father, you're telling. You're telling us a story that happened to you recently about uh ordering from sonic yes, um I'm really interested in recounting that for us here.
Speaker 2:Well, lately I spend a lot of time driving 1.2 miles up and down Western.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I get my morning caffeine at Sonic there by. Mcginnis, and sometimes I'm in a hurry and I'm not really thinking and I just pull in because I order on the app and then I'm just saying order for Rick. And so I pulled up and I stopped and I said-.
Speaker 1:So this is a Sonic that you've been to multiple times. Oh, yeah, yeah yeah, oh, yeah, that's a. It's a frequent stuff.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's a good piece of context I didn't have earlier.
Speaker 2:I went to mobile order for rick nothing mobile order for rick. And I was like honking, like why aren't they responding? And then I looked and I was ordering in the trash can. I was like well crap, and then I pulled up.
Speaker 3:Were you also on your phone at this time? Oh yeah, I was on my phone.
Speaker 2:I'm as bad as the kids, yeah.
Speaker 1:What's the frequent open on the phone, Like if we were to look at your screen time or whatever? What would be the thing?
Speaker 2:Is it just like the Outlook email or what's? It's a lot of emails, a lot of text. I do like to watch YouTube videos, different ones.
Speaker 1:Heck yeah, that's my poison of choice for social media is YouTube.
Speaker 2:As YouTube videos Yep.
Speaker 1:That makes sense. So we're talking about education and specifically like the intersection of faith and Catholic education and what that can look like. Father, would you lead us in a quick prayer and specifically like the intersection of faith and Catholic education and what that can look like? Father, would you lead us in a quick prayer?
Speaker 2:Sure In the name of the Father, son and the Holy Spirit. Amen, almighty God, we ask you to continue to bless all of our Catholic schools, our students, faculty staff, our parents and families. Continue to help us further the mission of Christ and his church, so that we can truly be Christ for others.
Speaker 1:We ask this through Christ our.
Speaker 2:Lord, amen, amen, father, son and the Holy Spirit.
Speaker 1:How many years in Catholic education have you had as a priest so far?
Speaker 2:33., 33?, 33 years I've been very blessed to always be in a parish with a school and now, being at McGinnis, a full Jesus lifetime and right now you're getting double time because you're involved with the Bishop John Carroll School.
Speaker 3:Both schools, yeah, and McGinnis.
Speaker 1:What's it been like? How long have you been at McGinnis now?
Speaker 2:I started the 1st of July 1st of July.
Speaker 3:So you've been— About four months, almost four months under your belt.
Speaker 1:What's that transition from Christ the King to doing something at McGinnis?
Speaker 2:Well, it already transitioned from Christ the King because that was three years ago to Our Ladies. So that was a difficult transition, just because I'd been there so long and knew so many people. Plus, I grew up in that neighborhood. But that transition is fine now. But no, I mean the McGinnis one. It's been good. I mean I know a lot of the kids. I baptized a good chunk of them, married many of their parents. I know a lot of the faculty, and so it's been. But, like, at times it's a little overwhelming in the sense that high schools have a lot more moving parts than grade schools. Like, for example, in grade schools in the fall you have volleyball and then you move into basketball and then maybe soccer, whereas at McGinnis it's all right. Now you've got speech and debate, you've got volleyball, you've got fast-pitch girls softball, you've got football. You've got cheer cross softball, you've got football, you've got cheer cross-country. All these sports they're all just intersecting all the time has there been?
Speaker 1:has there been much with, like I know, with name, image and likeness stuff with college football? Has that trickled down into affecting high school football at all? The name, name, image and likeness stuff? Nil, what is it? Take that as a no.
Speaker 2:Well, maybe I don't know Well they started paying college athletes right.
Speaker 1:They started paying them to come to those schools no, no, no.
Speaker 2:There's quarterbacks? No, no, no. We do not. Contrary to the rumors, we do not recruit and give scholarships to athletes.
Speaker 1:I was just curious if there had been an impact with being at McGinnis From knowing dads of high school students at other high schools.
Speaker 3:I think the main impact isn't direct, but back when I was playing ball and talking to recruiters and coaches and stuff, you would meet these guys, talk to them at camps or tournaments, tournaments and you might have to send them tapes or dvds like of your game film or whatever. But now, like, the pressure on the parent is like you got to have an awesome instagram account or youtube account of your child and you're like constantly promoting them, yeah, and so I don't know. I that's somewhat where the games moved and where the society is placed. Like I don't see that Sports is the altar. You don't see it too much.
Speaker 1:No, I don't see that that's good.
Speaker 3:That's kind of encouraging. I don't see that that's encouraging Because some of our public schools that's indoctrinated. Now that you've mentioned it now, it'll grow.
Speaker 2:Oh no, we ruined it.
Speaker 1:Of course we need to be doing this Instagram accounts for athletes and everything, but so you've been there for four months now, um, and you're you're a staple within the community as far as Catholic education goes. What are some of your dreams? You know early on for what you're hoping for as far as bringing the faith and letting it come alive in the students at McGinnis.
Speaker 2:I think my dream is to just I mean all you always hear, well, mcginnis needs to be quote more Catholic. I have found a a lot more Catholic than I was led to believe.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the rumor mill is the rumors yeah, you can't rely on that.
Speaker 2:But I think obviously you can't just say, oh yeah, it's Catholic and just let it go. I mean, you constantly have to reinforce that and just kind of let the kids know that, and my dream would be that they would really realize that without faith life is very difficult. For example and I've seen that literally my first week on and Dr Worthington's first week on for the July weekend, one of our students who was going to be a senior this year died and we had a prayer service the following Monday and I think we had 900 and something people in the auditorium and this is during summer, yeah, when a lot of people are gone and then the, the students in the faculty organized a prayer service in the football stadium on I think it was the Wednesday night before Zach's funeral and I bet there was we had. It was like going to be a candlelight thing and of course, Mr Positive, that won't work. The wind's going to blow all the candles out. Well, at any rate, Wait, you said that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I did, but it did work and the candles didn't blow out and I was wrong, which is typical, but at any rate 3,000 people showed up and that was all kid driven and faculty driven. It wasn't like Dr Worthington and I saying we need to do this. So I mean, the faith is there when it I shouldn't say it when it needs to be, but I think making that faith more just, alive in their lives, yeah, Everyday, living Everyday yeah, not when a tragedy comes Right, because it's.
Speaker 1:I mean, that's when you know, when we talk about the state of most church youth these days, they're described in that moral, therapeutic deism node where you know they're raised to be good people the moral part of it and they come to God whenever it's therapeutic for them whenever they have a problem or something like that, but he isn't really involved in their day-to-day life and the death of the students. That tragedy brings in a few different things.
Speaker 3:And it's beautiful that you highlighted it.
Speaker 1:But, yeah, the memento mori of it all right, right Of remembering that we will die and that, like that focus, that lens being cast on in that, in that area for them is really important because it just lets us know that we're not built for here, right that there, that there's, that there's something else, and when you're out, when you're in high school and I mean high schoolers have busier schedules than I- do.
Speaker 2:Oh, they are so over-programmed. I don't see how they get anything done Right, plus the seven and a half hours of screen time per day that most kids do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's crazy. You know it's an insane cycle for them. So those moments can be really like, can be great feeders of asking some of those bigger questions that I think that you guys are hoping that they ask themselves at Bishop McGinnis.
Speaker 3:I'm curious what do you think the daily life for those of us who don't have kids in high school, or for those of us who might and want to peer behind the veil? What's the daily life and daily struggle like for a high school student?
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, all of us can remember back to when we were high schools me way back longer than you guys, 45 years ago but I think being a teenager is always somewhat stressful because we're coming into our own, trying to figure out where we're going to go in life and things like that.
Speaker 2:So I mean I certainly see that as an issue with our students, in that, while they don't maybe vocalize it, I think in the back of their mind they're wondering well, where am I going to go? I was telling them well, god has a plan for you, you just have to be open to it.
Speaker 2:And it might not even make sense, but just be open to it. And so I think their average daily life is it's consumed with, just like any young person, adolescent. It's consumed with friendships. It's consumed with screen time. It's consumed with, you know, gaming. It's consumed, you know. You see it, we don't allow cell phones in the classrooms, thanks be to God. But they can have them in the passing periods and at lunch. And it's funny because if you're not watching where you're going, you'll get run over because you're just, you know, and but I mean, I think that's a lot. I mean really social media and cell phones. I'm old enough to remember when we didn't have those.
Speaker 1:It's changed.
Speaker 2:It's changed, it's totally different now and it really, on the flip side, it's made things, I think, for our young people, much more stressful, because studies have shown the mental health of young people now is probably the lowest it's ever been. Yeah, yeah, and we had Dr Worthington, our principal. We had a Catholic charity psychologist come in because we took an idea that James Ryder gave me from another school that you know to have like a parent thing each month to bring up.
Speaker 2:So we had a mental health lady come in and you know, just to tell the parents things to watch for and yeah, that's so good, that's cool.
Speaker 3:Parents, I might share from the heart a little bit, but would probably be okay for a high schooler here, but not anyone younger I would think right, um, I, uh, it's interesting. It's interesting you mentioned the phone stuff because I I am too just barely old enough to remember it not being a part of my adolescent life. Um, I got one my junior or senior year but I remember playing basketball after school, freshman, sophomore year and like not having a phone, but there'd be like an hour gap from school so I was either doing homework, warming up early, spending time with friends, but it was like real living, not propagated with what was on social media. And I think had I had it, had what I have in my pocket now, then my days would have been filled with non-reality and worry and anxiety and comparison and like I don't know if anyone can relate to this, but like for me, like my high school experience was one of like growing up in a great grade school which we have plenty of them here Like I knew the faith, I knew what was right and wrong, I knew it intellectually.
Speaker 3:I had kind of a partial encounter with Jesus when I was 12, where the gospel was proclaimed, that told us, to us. And at that point I already had moral sin pretty active in my life Masturbation, pornography, promiscuity, and like the Lord spoke to me well there. But I didn't really have anyone to accompany me in that, like it wasn't safe to talk about anyone with that. But I remember, like in the high school lunchroom, being crippled with anxiety in some sense of like my junior year, in some sense the anxiety of sin, like I know I'm in mortal sin, I know I'm doing things with my girlfriend that I shouldn't, I'm concerned about where that's going, but I can't stop. I'm worried about what coach has given me on the ball field or on the on the basketball court and how I'm performing and if I'll have time to work out tonight after practice to get my gains ahead of where they need to be. And I'm worried about the calculus exam that I'm just got to deal on the last one.
Speaker 3:And so there's just all this pressure, and I didn't even have the social media stuff layered on top of that, or the texting in the hallways layered on top of that, or the elevated sense and speed of communication around rumors, and I was so crippled I couldn't even eat at lunch, you know, like I was just so weighed down and I just I don't know.
Speaker 3:I want to invite us to realize like that that our high schoolers, many of them, find themselves in that way and some of them find themselves where they don't feel like they want to invite us to realize that our high schoolers, many of them, find themselves in that way and some of them find themselves where they don't feel like they need to hide and they're rebellious and it's out there and I'm not sure which one's more tormenting for the soul. And then others find us like I want to be faithful, but it's not accepted in my peer group or it's not cool, and so I'm don't know. I think it's helpful to look with mercy upon our high schoolers and try to come to a place of understanding and pray into that as parents or teachers or coaches, and give some time to give them space to be safe, to be real.
Speaker 1:And you didn't go to McGinnis, but you went to Capon. I went to a Catholic high school.
Speaker 3:Yeah, great Catholic. Yeah, like wonderful school and in some sense, like it was plagued with the same weeds of the world that most of our high schoolers are. High schools are like there's a certain amount of affluence there that has its gifts and problems. There was a certain amount of like idols that we hold in the world that aren't jesus, um, but there was this great core culture, just like mcginnis has, and so, really honestly, it's kind of an epic battleground when you think about it. Like these kids are about to be on their own in just a couple years. Like Satan has their number and he wants to win. Really bad, and I think we need to realize that. That like Catholic education yes, there's the intellectual and all the beautiful things there, but we're actually in a battle. Like these are prizes for the lord, he sings songs over them and satan hates them like they took his spot.
Speaker 3:they're destined to take his spot and, uh, I don't know, I think it's and not to like make it too serious, but but in some sense, like there's an epic drama happening and we're so busy with everything else that we're not. We're often not engaged and I'm speaking of my own self too in that, and I'm just so glad we're talking about it because you see, sometimes, kids at lunch.
Speaker 2:well, they get in the groups and then you see them eating with one hand and screening with the other, Screening. Sometimes I'll see them and they're all looking down. And then there's all this laughter and I said, okay, you're either watching something you shouldn't be or you're ripping someone apart. Which is it? Oh, neither one. How?
Speaker 1:do you know Immediately?
Speaker 3:feel called out.
Speaker 1:So what do you think? Some of the key areas like so that's like the backdrop of, like the individual, the person that we're wanting to encounter through Catholic education, both in like helping them think, because if they can, think they can get everywhere else where we need to go, but also like encounter the Lord and being engaged in the community and all of that. So what are some of the key areas you find that you want to pay attention to the most as a president of a school of developing?
Speaker 3:Yeah, do you have a top short list or?
Speaker 1:something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, obviously to make available more opportunities for that kind of growth in faith. Now, how that will play itself out, I'm not quite there yet. One of the things that our kids they know our motto is be Christ for others, and they are very good when it comes to service projects, helping people. They love that, like the senior project, is the boys and Girls Club down on 30th, 36th and Western and they go down there and work with those kids. And then the McGinnis we're starting the canned food drive and they always just rock it with the canned food drive. So those kinds of things where they see helping others, you know, mission trips, things like that. They're really good at that, just trying to get them to engage in their faith more. One of the things going forward that I want to look at is we have all school masses in the auditorium, which is not ideal. I mean it's too big and we have a chapel that can seat about 250 or 300.
Speaker 1:So one of the things going forward is.
Speaker 2:I mean, this is just on the Dream page, but maybe a monthly class mass in the chapel, in a much more sacred space than in the auditorium and some people have expressed that even kids who are a faithful say yeah, it's difficult to really pray in an auditorium, and that's faced all Catholic schools, because if you try to fit everybody in, you'd have to have the shrine size church?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's usually a gym or an auditorium, Right yeah, but sometimes, like FCA, that's kind of a student-driven thing and they had a speaker the other night and it went really well and I told our campus minister, Kelly Allen, and others, if you have something and a few kids go and they really like it, then those things will exponentially grow in time, Because growing to the faith can't be an old man imposing it from on high or a teacher. It has to come from them or that desire.
Speaker 1:How do you feel like encouraging that desire? What is the role of a Catholic school in doing that? And what are the key areas that affect that desire?
Speaker 2:I think one of the key areas is that luckily, in a Catholic school, you can discuss faith in any topic and in all topics in reality.
Speaker 2:And I do know like, for example, in one of our English classes they were reading a book the name has escaped me, but it was a poem about the fires of hell, and so the teacher had the kids make like clay-dough sculptures of that part of the book Of hell, kind of what hell might be like, and it was really interesting seeing that they were really good. I mean, you'd have like Plato, a little hell, a little Satan here and a little angel here. I mean, those kinds of things were even in just like English class. They can bring faith into that.
Speaker 1:That's real. Speaking of this is a slightly tangential topic. This is more of a story, james, do you remember? Did you watch Prince of Egypt growing up? The DreamWorks.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Peter and I watched it the other day and it holds up so good and I promise I'm getting to the hell piece of it, but it's really good and the music's really great. Peter and I have been listening to the music in our car drives but we go through all of the plagues and Peter's just enamored like oh, wow seeing kind of their miraculous power of God and some of these different things.
Speaker 1:But then we got to the Angel of Death plague, where the firstborn child of all of Egypt passes away. And so when something strikes a chord with my five-year-old son or not, I kind of just find out, because he starts crawling up a lot closer to me and I hear his voice kind of like start wavering. And he comes up to me and he goes dad, is the angel of death real? And I was like, yeah, angel of death is real. And he's like is that, is that Satan?
Speaker 1:And I was like not exactly with that and we had a full-blown conversation. But the idea of that happening in this cartoon was like we had a conversation. He ended up being fine about it, you know, within a couple of minutes, but, like you were saying, with like exposing different aspects of the faith within the context of English or you could figure it out. You could even present the gospel in math in some way. It's huge. It forms them as it comes along, so I love that. I mostly wanted to talk about how great the Prince of Egypt was.
Speaker 3:That's really it to talk about how great the prince of egypt, that's really good, but but I mean, in lots of places of conversion let's take, uh, let's take saint ignatius of loyola when he walks his guys through um, the spiritual exercises. You know, there is a focus on the eternal and heaven and hell and some time to contemplate that, and that's so good. You know, when our lady of adam appeared to the children she gave him a glimpse of hell and they're glad she didn't leave it on their eyes for too long.
Speaker 2:I don't think we talk about it. I mean, like last week's gospel was where Jesus said if you lead someone into sin, it'd be better that you had a millstone around your neck and your thumb to the sea.
Speaker 2:and then James says if you're a hand, chop it off. I think when I was talking to the theology classes this week I was like how do we lead people into sin? You know crickets. But then when you started, kind of like, okay, if you're the one that's at the party and you're the one that is encouraging your friends to drink, that's leading people into sin. You know, if you're telling lies and people can't trust you, that's leading people into sin. And they were like oh, you know, if you're telling lies and people can't trust you, that's leading people into sin. And they were like oh, you know, we never thought of that, or you know, I think they just don't think of that.
Speaker 2:Not that we need to go back to that old like when I grew up, not as a Catholic, but I remember going to my grandma's church and she was hardcore, yeah, fire and brimstone, oh. And he would like pound on the pulpit and say rip it, you know, and sinner and burns. And I was scared. But even in the Catholics it was like well, if you ate meat on Friday, you were going to burn in hell, or if you chewed the host, blood would spurt forth. I mean, we've kind of gone, where now Jesus is like Big Papa Smurf, you know, he's all warm and fuzzy.
Speaker 1:Right, and the reality is somewhere in between, exactly, and the virtue of it all, it all and yeah, you don't necessarily want to preach fire and brimstone and gehenna all the time, that won't work anymore. Um, yeah, it's, that's not going to necessarily work, but, but also not communicating what reality? There's a way to communicate that hell is a reality in a loving way, right, in a way that makes sense to this generation, without condemning Right.
Speaker 3:Well, yeah, I mean if, across the years we have, we're talking about the reality of hell, but we're also talking about the reality of things Jesus said to the woman caught in adultery. He's perfectly truthful and perfectly loving, embodies mercy. There. Did they condemn you. Neither do I. Go and sin no more. That's actually a very hard thing if you want to hear it. Go and sin no more. I don't condemn you Like that's our Lord. He looks at us that way.
Speaker 2:That's what young people. They don't want to feel like they're being judged. Right, well, none of us want to feel like we're being judged, but so I think that emphasizing that mercy of god. Uh, is is real important, not that god is up there with a tally oh, this and this, and this and this, and you know five more you know, thank god I know we'd all be down the drain.
Speaker 3:What do you think the default now that we're on this riff? What do you think the default images of god are that our high schoolers might have, If it's not this all loving, all merciful perfectly truthful God, what other you know?
Speaker 2:to be perfectly honest, I think probably in the minds of most average high school kids I don't know that they really even have. I mean, they have an image of what God might be like, but I don't really know and I could be wrong, but I would be surprised if many of them had a concrete image. And I would say that's not just high school people. I would say that's a lot of people nowadays, since think about it More people in our country now know religion than any religion, all the major religions people are. They're like well, I'm spiritual but not religious.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like almost God's an idea.
Speaker 2:God's an idea, it's a concept, it's a nice one, but but it does, it's not relevant to my life.
Speaker 3:Yeah, wow, yeah, that's fascinating, I think. Um, I had someone kind of formed me in this, and one of mine is distant rule maker god. The other one's like the moral therapeutic god. I think the intellectual idea of god was there, certainly for me. And the interesting challenge is like, if that's the god we believe to be true, what worship do we owe that god? Right, none, none, none, you know, because that's not a God worthy of worship.
Speaker 2:Well, even me as a priest 33 years, I mean. Obviously I believed in God deeply and the promise of eternal life and all that. But I think I mean I hate to admit it, but even at times as a priest there's days when you go well, what if this is it?
Speaker 1:You know what I mean, yeah.
Speaker 2:And that's kind of a scary thought. What if this is as good as it gets? And then I go away from that. But I just think a lot of times. People don't think about God much anymore, which is why our society is in such the mess it's in.
Speaker 3:Thanks for that honesty. It's helpful to know. I mean, I think if we're all honest, we struggle with belief.
Speaker 2:No doubt I mean Father Teresa doubted. A lot of the saints doubted.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a natural piece of it all. Bringing us back to the school and some of the different things that school can be, I want to focus on some of the fruits you were talking about earlier when we were prepping that the community that Catholic education and Catholic school can bring can be a huge force for good. Can you talk a little bit about that community that Catholic education, that Catholic school can bring can be a huge force for good Can?
Speaker 2:you talk a little bit about that, yeah, and I've seen that in pretty much every Catholic school I've served in, where, if something, sadly it takes something bad to happen. But it's oftentimes that community that really comes together to circle around the family, to offer prayers, consolation, to organize, self-organize, a rosary or a prayer service or something that really and one of the things. Two weeks ago I went to New York for a wedding and I decided to organize a McGinnis alumni gathering up in New York because we have a lot. They're living the dream in Manhattan, which I always wish I did, but that's a whole other issue. Merely an accident of birth, but just seeing all those kids come together, and they were. It was just that community.
Speaker 2:And I ask a few of them are you going to church? But some were. They said, yeah, I go to this church or that community. And I ask a few of them, are you going to church? But some were, you know, they said yeah, I go to this church or that church. So I think that's kind of cool, I mean so, yeah, I mean I think the young people, I think the thing about young people. That's why we have to be careful in the church not to conform ourselves too much to this age, because I think the kids do want contrary to some people's belief, I think the kids do want moral absolutes. They do want guidance. Now they may not admit it, but down deep, I think they want to know what's right or wrong. We're designed for that. They don't want to be judged for messing up, but they want to know where's that line that I shouldn't cross. Sure, right, wow.
Speaker 1:It makes a lot of sense. So we have the community and how it can, how it can pull things together. What do you think about how, like, what are some hopes that you have for McGinnis coming in? Like, what are some of the things like you mentioned earlier that, like you're upping, you're upping all of the religious. You mentioned earlier that you're upping all the religious imagery that is seeing and you're bringing incense into masses and we're dialing up the beauty is what I was hearing a lot is we're dialing up the beauty because the beauty creates curiosity in the hearts of our high schoolers, which is an amazing strategy to be going forward. But what are some of the things that you're most excited about for the future? For?
Speaker 2:McGinnis. I think the things obviously like you mentioned, I mean we didn't really have. You could walk into McGinnis and you might as well be in PC North. I mean it didn't have any kind of religious imagery or much to say.
Speaker 2:So seeing that around more icons, crucifixes, things like that, the kids are kind of noticing those things in sense at Mass. But I think my hope and dream would be that it becomes and there again I may not live to see the fruition of it, but it becomes where, like you were saying James, where believing in God is cool.
Speaker 2:I mean it's not something that you're embarrassed about, because I see sometimes kids going in the chapel and we have a few that will go in the chapel unapologetically and they'll be walking down the hall with their friends and they'll just go in there and say a prayer. Then you have others that are probably looking around. Don't let them see me going in there. I mean that kind of thing to where you know it's. It's not weird to be um religious, uh, and there again, I don't know if I'll live to see that fruition, but I think I think sometimes you know kids are like oh, if you're too religious, that's like weird, um, unless they can also see through self-righteous, judgmental people which do us all a damage what role does the parents play in this catholic education and with all of that?
Speaker 2:yeah, and every school I've ever served in whether it was rosary, christ, the king saint charles, john carroll, um, you know now, mcginnis, I drill into the parents and we had a parent meeting not too long ago, a parent night, where the parents could go in and visit all their teachers. But I said ultimately, you know, you can entrust your kids to us all day, but the main teachers of the faith have has always been and always will be the parents. If what we're teaching in theology and religion is not getting reinforced at home, then it won't work. And vice versa, if it's getting at home and they're teaching there, then and they're not getting it reinforced in school, it won't work. So the parents have to play a part of that. They can't abdicate that to the school and say, "'well, they're going to Catholic school "'that's all they need, you know? Yeah, or we go to mass on once a month. We don't need to go to any other mass.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's a both, and it's interesting, like, as parents, you're right, we're the primary educators, primary formators, obviously in chronological order, we start first before we send to the school. But actually, in authority and effectiveness, the way in which, even if imperfect or not all the way, knowing everything, the faith of the parent is more powerful than the faith of the school, right?
Speaker 2:Right, and even if they're not preaching it, so to speak, it's like, supposedly, st Francis said on this is Feast Day.
Speaker 1:Don't quote that quote on my podcast, please. Okay, I'm not allowed to quote it. I think it's true, Actually. No, I'm just kidding.
Speaker 3:I'm just kidding I'm just kidding.
Speaker 2:Preach the gospel if necessary. Use words. I mean I may I. Maybe he didn't say it, I mean, who knows, but I like that.
Speaker 3:You don't like that, jay's so the the reason why the reason why a missionary soul might not like that is because, one, we don't think he actually said it. But second, it's not the actions aren't more important than the words, necessarily. No, it's that you have to have both Exactly Talk the talk, walk the walk. Yeah, like if you are talking the talk and not walking the walk.
Speaker 2:That's very dangerous Right.
Speaker 3:It's less dangerous to walk the walk and not talk the talk.
Speaker 2:For sure, yeah, However, the mercy of jesus needs to come off of our lips. Oh, absolutely, yeah, no, it's got to be both yeah. But if, like, people are saying, oh, you know this and that, and then they don't practice it, then that's not good.
Speaker 1:Now, yeah, you can't just be a nice guy and then think they're gonna automatically osmos faith out of that yeah, I love that which which I think that phrase just to like put it, put the cap on, I feel like that phrase gets used it does to state that faith, proclamation of the faith by osmosis, is what saint pope, not pope francis- saint francis, saint francis, is hoping for, when that's just the exact opposite of what well saint franc faith without works is dead, right, yeah, I mean, it takes both, definitely yeah.
Speaker 3:Any struggles or weaknesses in your role that we can pray for. We can support you in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean obviously taking on a role like this. It's new. It's new to the school because, you know, david Morton was there as president and principal forever Right Huge change.
Speaker 2:And so now having this dual model, like Capon does, and really most of the Catholic Bishop, lynch, bishop Kelly Cascia, all the Catholic schools have this model One trying to figure out exactly what the president does and what the principal does, is a little overwhelming. But I think just the worthiness it's like okay, a, this is a big deal and just, am I worthy to do it? Do I have the chutzpah, so to speak, or the faith to carry it out? Because I think kids can see you're not genuine and so I, I would say just that self-doubt that we all have would be probably my biggest fear wow
Speaker 1:yeah, I think we can all relate to that, that's real self-doubt and and the self-doubt thing the like am I worthy to be doing this, like I? I was talking to a friend of mine who just started in ministry professionally. It's a guy that I've been spending a lot of time with and that was the first thing he said to me. He was talking about some areas of struggle for himself. He said, and he said, jace, I don't know if I'm worthy to do this. And I was like, well, that's a great question to be asking yourself, um, but the reality is is like we don't make ourselves worthy by our own stuff. God makes us worthy.
Speaker 1:You know the you know the classic thing were they the classic thing God doesn't call the qualified, he qualifies the called.
Speaker 3:Yeah, right, which we see very clearly in the apostles, even in the head.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, you know even in what's that Chose the weak to confound the strong?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and we also see it very clearly in how awesome Father Rick is and the great job that he's doing. I don't know about that.
Speaker 2:But yeah, it's. But I mean, I think it is a real fear that you know, am I qualified to do this or this and that? But yeah, we have to figure it out. I don't think God micromanages, but I do think God puts us where we need to be.
Speaker 1:Do you have a favorite story in education of a student coming through and like the lights coming on for them of knowing who Jesus is, that you'd like to end this with to give us a sense of hope?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I remember I don't want to say which school, but I've known a couple of students over the years that you know. They were little turds, so to speak, and they cleaned it up.
Speaker 2:But they you know no faith. No, and I remember seeing, even at Christ the King and now at McGinnis, some of those kids that were just you thought this one's lost, lost little lamb. Now they're rocking it as parents. I remember one guy in particular. I mean he was a big old, long-haired hippie and just really kind of wild guy and he is now very active in his parish and probably one of the best dads I've ever seen. That's amazing. And so you see that kind of thing and you're like well, you know there's hope, don't write anybody off because you just never know. Yeah, you know where people are going to get touched.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I've seen that a lot actually in parents that I thought, ugh, god help their kids. And then they're like the best parents ever. Yeah, wow.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's beautiful. I mean, that's what that man was made for, and his life across the years, the Lord worked to pull it out.
Speaker 2:I remember one time I told the kid a long time ago I said well, if your kids act like you, you're just god, help us all and uh, and he remembered that and I go. I know I was really sorry and he goes. No, I probably needed to hear that. But now he's a great dad. You know his kids are great. If your kids act like you, god bless, thanks for modeling the broken vessel theory there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know because in some sense what's kind of neat is like that might have been a father rick response, but the holy spirit probably used that in the time it was needed, right. You know where it was something of god to to help the boy hear it and as a man it's impacted him that's's cool.
Speaker 2:So I see that a lot, which is awesome, because priesthood is one of those things you don't see the fruit of your work. I mean, you don't, you just don't yeah.
Speaker 1:You're there in the key moments for a lot of people, but you don't get to necessarily be the one following up that entire time. So you just got to set things up and put them into play. That's a reality. Do you think that that's hard for priests not getting to see the fruit?
Speaker 2:It's very hard, especially with the moving, because I think priests I've known in other dioceses that don't move as much as we do here. I'm not making an anti-move thing, although I prefer not to move, but anyway, that's a whole other issue and everybody knows that. But I'm happy now, so I'm all good, he's happy now we're all good.
Speaker 2:But I am, and I'm in a great parish. But the thing is, when you don't get to follow these people, you get really close, you get attached, they become part of your lives, you watch them grow and then you're gone. Some people that you're close to, I mean, I'm still close, very close, with a family that I met my first year priesthood at St Charles and I've watched their kids grow up and now they're grandkids. So you do see that some, but you don't see it like with your own kids, yeah, so I do think that's hard, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I always say like when we move or you know people move on it's like it's almost like a divorce. But the new dad got custody of the kids, you know.
Speaker 1:Oh man that's crazy. Wow Well, father Rick, it's been an absolute pleasure having you on the podcast.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you very much for having me.
Speaker 1:We'll bring you back on, talk a little bit more about education, maybe have a little check-in after year two and see how things are going or after year one get into that, but this has been Red Dirt Catholics. I'm Jace, I'm James, I'm Father Rick and we'll see you guys next time. Thank you.