Red Dirt Catholics
Join Jayce, James and guests from "Red Dirt" Oklahoma as they discuss what evangelization and discipleship looks like in real life.
Red Dirt Catholics
Should We Listen More Than Once? (Grace and Discipleship in Action)
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During this episode, Jayce and James are back! Join as they dive into powerful stories of discipleship and mission through the lens of recent guest interviews, exploring the transformative moments that shape authentic Christian witness and community building.
• Bold leadership decisions make space for the lost, as demonstrated by a youth minister who chose struggling teens over volunteer convenience
• Creating time and space for authentic response to the gospel is crucial, particularly in retreat settings where distractions are minimized
• Having five invested, faith-filled adults in a young person's life significantly increases the likelihood of maintaining faith beyond high school
• The "art of Christian living" forms the foundation of effective missionary work, focusing on internal growth that fuels external ministry
• Ordinary settings like sports teams and family gatherings provide opportunities to model virtues over outcomes
• Observant, intentional relationships create openings for divine encounters, as seen in Weston's six-hour breakfast with Jared
• Boldly extending invitations beyond comfort zones often results in unexpected growth and mission opportunities
• True discipleship requires scandalous amounts of time and investment that may seem counterproductive but yield profound fruit
Jayce also announces that he's leaving the archdiocese for a new position and we wish him all the best!
Register now for the 2025 Discipleship Conference for the Archdiocese of Oklahoma City! This full-day, bilingual event will feature amazing speakers, breakout sessions, adoration, Mass, confessions, vendors and more at the Oklahoma City Convention Center on Saturday, August 9. Register now to get the early-bird price at OKDisciple.org.
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Links and other stuff from the show:
Pastoral Letter, "On the Unity of the Body and Soul:" archokc.org/pastoral-letters
Red Dirt Catholics Email Address: reddirtcatholics@archokc.org
The Book "From Christendom to Apostolic Mission" (Digital and Print): Amazon
The Social Dilemma: https://www.netflix.com/title/81254224
Daily Examen Prayer: https://bit.ly/309As8z
Lectio Divina How-To: https://bit.ly/3fp8UTa
All righty Good to be with you guys today. We've got Jace and myself in the same room, which feels a little rare. I'll be honest, I was excited. We were both excited about our last two guests, and I don't normally listen to the podcast.
Speaker 2:Me neither.
Speaker 1:But since I wasn't on the last one Jace recorded I was listening and Jace I, just I got to play this clip and we got to talk about it.
Speaker 2:James and I are kind of tired of each other. We decided that we needed a break. So that's why it was just James and Joe last week and now it's me and Jared, and we really only record with guys whose name is Jay.
Speaker 1:So can you help me understand what's going on?
Speaker 2:Well, I mean we've just been drifting apart, james, you know this, and it's really just been taking a toll on me and yeah, so I think right now is probably the best time to just come out and say it that I'm leaving the archdiocese.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:All right Because of the podcast.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's just been a really long. I can't do this anymore.
Speaker 3:We're joking.
Speaker 2:We're absolutely joking. We just uh, our schedules didn't clash.
Speaker 3:I was just being funny um and thought it would be a funny thing to say to open the podcast.
Speaker 2:Um, but what is true actually is that I am leaving the archdiocese, but not not for any negative reasons, uh, but I'm going to be going to the cathedral and going to be taking over for faith there as the director of evangelization and I couldn't be more excited about it. There's just been a movement in my heart for a while, but I've been really happy here and in the work that we've done at the Archdiocese, so I haven't really thought about it too much. But there's just been a movement to be on the ground doing the stuff that we talk about, like even doing some of these podcasts and listening to them, of just like being more boots on the ground and I get to do some of that and I get to hear lots of great stories from the archdiocesan level. But I felt the Lord say very clearly and when the Lord wants me to make a change, he tends to just not let me think about anything else whenever I'm in prayer with Him.
Speaker 2:I've seen that multiple times and I just I couldn't get. When I saw the opening for the cathedral, I just couldn't think of, I couldn't get it out of my head at all. So I talked to Father Rick and reached out to him and I couldn't be more excited to go to the Cathedral May 2nd. But we're going to continue doing the podcast because James and I are best friends and I really missed having.
Speaker 2:James and as I was listening to the podcast back, I was like man, there's something different, like obviously when we record differently, but like I think having us both there is the best.
Speaker 1:I enjoy it. It was kind of funny. Like the first read read, I was laughing out loud because you're, you know, full of bs there at the opening and I was like to be honest, since I'm more the serious type, I was like a little half nervous, like are they gonna think we really have a fight? And then you start joking about jays and I'm like, yeah, okay, they're gonna get, it's a joke. But I almost didn't get. It was a joke at first to be oh, no way.
Speaker 2:No, I'm kidding. Oh, my god, no, I got you.
Speaker 1:Okay, that would be, that would be insane, but uh, yeah, I'm, uh, oh, oh, producer avery darn do we need to do that again start wherever we were and now.
Speaker 2:But now we're back. Now we're back.
Speaker 1:Miscommunications aside, yep, joking but you might have to. If you're thinking about being a guest, we might keep with the j theme.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, yeah, you have to start with the letter j, otherwise, otherwise you can't be on.
Speaker 1:That's pretty good and.
Speaker 3:And everything.
Speaker 2:So what's been going on for you? Peter started playing soccer for the first time, which is exciting for us. I have some funny stories from that. But what's been going on in your family?
Speaker 1:Yeah, a little bit of youth sports seems to be our main go-to these evenings. We just had a flag football game last night. Friday Night Lights is the name of the league. It's pretty fun. What position Is it? Grayson? Yeah, grayson, he was quarterback last night for most of it and they lost. Honestly, like the kids were kind of like deer in headlights and, to be candid, I was too. Like first play, I didn't defensive coach, I did not have them lined up on the ball, like I didn't't, the ball wasn't spot, then it spotted and then the team, you know, went. So anyway, it was like our first defensive play, the team scores a touchdown, my total.
Speaker 1:We did an after action review with the coaches and my head coach was like well, your first thing is to get your defensive coach, you know on the ball but uh, what's funny about Grayson is we come home we have these like one, two, three little like places to throw the football, like a big net, and he's got like a bucket of balls, then actually a costco box of avocados, of balls and he throws uh, he throws into it and so like when we got home he was like determined to improve and he stayed out there and threw for like 30, 45 minutes while we're getting the other kids ready for bed. That's pretty hilarious to see a seven year old do it.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, peter started soccer and our first.
Speaker 2:We've had two games and one practice. The first practice was really just a lot of fun, but they really didn't get much into like game time scenarios, and I'm just, I have such a new respect for coaching as a parent watching these kids learn for the very first time what some of these sports are, especially like the introductory ones, like they just have no idea. So the game started, one of our players on our team wasn't at practice because, uh, he's on a different club, kindergarten soccer team. His name's pedro, ped Pedro was very good, and so when Pedro came to our first game, I think he scored five goals in the first 30 seconds of the game, Just like bang, bang, just like having a complete ace on our team, which was super fun.
Speaker 2:Peter, on the other hand, enjoyed some skips and actively ran away from the ball a few moments, um, and was just happy to be out there and having fun, um, and we saw that a little bit in the second game. But the second game Pete Pedro wasn't there and our team was not did not fare as well on our second game, and, but Peter has said every time he's left the game it's like I want to get better and I want to come home and practice.
Speaker 2:And we spend a few times kicking it around. But there's an aggressiveness that you have to teach, an aggressiveness in your movements that it's just very obvious which kids have thought that all the way through and connected those dots and which ones haven't. So we're going to work on Peter's aggressiveness.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but it's been fun.
Speaker 1:That's pretty fun, pretty normal, that, like your first time in a sport, there's that watching behavior, you know, kind of sort of aloof that was definitely mine, but yeah, kind of all the kids, as they've hit that age, seem to be that way and trying to get them up to speed to understand the game and when to be aggressive.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's fun. Yeah, so we're doing something new today for the podcast that we've never done before. You saw at the very beginning, like we're, we're playing clips now and and reacting to them, like we're, we're modernizing here, you know. And so the entire point of our podcast with Red Dirt Catholics and we're going to continue doing it, even though that I'm leaving which I'm really excited to be able to continue to do with James and have is to dive into the dirty work of discipleship through stories, and sometimes we have great stories and have great guests. Sometimes it's just been us and we share different anecdotes, but the last two episodes have been especially good on the story side and diving in. And so James came up with the Will you talk about, kind of the idea that you came up with.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was actually with a handful of friends and it was before Jared's came out and after Joe's came out and someone had brought it up like hey, I heard this and then we started reflecting on a couple parts of the podcast and of Joe's story, almost like we were dissecting discipleship and like what worked in Joe's life there. And just sitting there amid the conversation I was like I need to talk to Jace about this, because I feel like we could talk about this with our listeners and it would be something our listeners probably think about and just invite everyone to kind of examine, hey, what occurred across this person's story and maybe like reapply it to our own life. So in some sense I hope we're kind of like pulling the curtain, like what was maybe happening behind the scenes In others. It's just like a pure reaction and thinking about it a second time, you know, and understanding more deeply what the Lord might've been doing, what was going on in that person.
Speaker 2:And what's also cool, when you brought it up, when you brought up this idea of doing this reaction video like we probably had the most active texting conversation about the podcast that we've had in quite some time there was something there within this idea of pulling back the curtain and diving more into some of these stories, so much so that it's given us like a new idea of a, a new project, as it were, for us to to get into. We haven't, we're not going to reveal it yet, but we're going to tease that. We have a big idea of something that nobody's done before, yeah, and, and we're going to start working on it, and we're going to be working on it, maybe even on off to this side for a while, and when, when it's ready, we'll we'll let you, we'll let you know. But it was just a really cool conversation.
Speaker 2:And there was just obviously a lot of fruit of man. What if we look at discipleship?
Speaker 1:really intently here and my hope for this time, as you guys are listening, is, like Jason and I felt I personally felt renewed interviewing Joe. I felt renewed listening to Jared's story. There's something when you've heard the gospel and you've responded to it, when you hear the story of it happening to someone else, it lights your fire right. But also like it was kind of getting back to Red Dirt's roots of illustrating discipleship through stories. One thing we've talked about offline is we also really hope to kind of fuel the missionary fire in your heart. So feel free to give us some feedback, but that's kind of our hope here that as we talk about these missionary stories, we can learn from them and increase our own fruitfulness.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you can text us in the description is what Producer Avery is letting me know now. So that's pretty fancy. When did we get that? I turned it on to see what would happen but we had the first or second episode wow nice, shoot us a text shoot us a text if you have any extra feedback for some of this stuff and do please share this story.
Speaker 1:I had someone stop me after first Saturday Mass and Adoration and say, hey, I love those episodes, like we're gonna be sharing them with a lot of people, so like please do share.
Speaker 2:That would be so wonderful yeah yeah, share, like, subscribe all of the great things that we can be doing with that. So, but diving in here, if you haven't listened to the episodes, highly recommend it. And this don't necessarily have to, because we're gonna be playing some of the clips and reacting to them, but I would highly recommend it. I listened to the first time. I listened to y'all. I was like working in the rain on a few different things around the house, um, and I would. I've just, I don't listen to the podcast very often, but I really enjoyed listening to those. So there's, there's something cool there. But I'm going to play this clip, uh, from joe's heart of a vagabond, season six, episode two. Um, we're going to play the clip and then we're just going to kind of give our own thoughts and feedback and like diving into like what are the behind the scenes things that are have to be happening there and how we can apply that you know.
Speaker 2:So here Joe. This is in discussion with Joe being a vagabond, being kind of a bad kid, doing a lot of bad things and causing problems at his youth group and his youth minister figuring out what to do about it.
Speaker 3:But, needless to say, the volunteers that were at this church were really upset with us in general and they kind of saw me as the root of the problem, you know, because I was bringing all my friends and we were the ones that were causing all this trouble. And they show up at the youth minister's house, and so there was this youth minister that had moved to town, he had graduated from Steubenville and he had started doing youth ministry there and he really just thought he was doing normal church things, you know, like a normal church youth ministry. But I think we had, me and my friends, had kind of created this dynamic that was different than what he was expecting. And so these volunteers show up at his house one night and they basically had gone out to dinner and decided we're not helping out at church anymore unless they tell Joe he can't come anymore. And so they kind of ambushed him.
Speaker 3:Where they just show up at his door, cause again, this is back in the day where you just knocked on people's doors and they answered, you know, and they just told him you know, we're going to quit if you don't tell Joe he needs to stay away and he says fine, I gladly accept your resignation, because if we give up on one of these kids we're not doing God's work. And that night for him was kind of a cool turning point because about half the volunteers stopped helping that night but the half that stayed kind of rededicated towards especially like me and my friends, where they were starting to really pursue us and kind of take on the task of like this is why we're here. We're here to serve these kids that obviously need it.
Speaker 2:So youth minister versus volunteers. When I was young and in when I was young and at First Southern Baptist Church, like at Sunday school or doing Awanas and different things, they had a busing ministry that they would. I don't know where they went. I don't know anything about it other than they would bring underprivileged kids to Sunday school and would pick them up from wherever and bring them in. And there was I don't even remember his name, but there was one kid who was pretty hard and like at one point he like pushed me into the wall and I'm like eight at the time. So this was kind of a wild thing for a little homeschooled kid to be experiencing at his Sunday school, at church. But there was a moment where they did end up asking that kid to not come anymore because he couldn't behave well enough. And looking back at it I think, wow, what could a different response have been?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I remember hearing this in Joe's story the first time and for me there's something happened in my heart, you know just like I was like inspired by the boldness that Bob had, but it was also very like God, like it was a very God-like response, you know it was very much like the father, very much like what Jesus says in Matthew 18.
Speaker 1:Like, if a man has a hundred sheep but one of the sheep is lost, he will leave the 99 on the hill and go after the lost. And like what I kind of contemplate like two things are happening, one on the mission side, one on the discipleship side. So like for Joe, if this is the heart of the guy leading him, like imagine how Joe felt around Bob right, like if that was really, if this is us seeing into Bob's heart, like Joe was probably used to and his friends getting the stuff that these volunteers were getting of. Like let's reject these kids. But clearly the kind of love that Bob and a few of the volunteers at least were giving Joe and these kids was, like you are important, you're valued, you are the prize, but then go to like the mission side. Like dude, bob took it to a whole new level that moment.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just imagine, like walking up, like the amount of intensity that you have to have to like go to their door, like I realized that people did that more often than you didn't have cell phones, couldn't write, you know but go to their door and say, and we all are leaving and have led this rebellion, and like in a split second, like I don't know how I would respond to that. Like if every person on a team that I was leading were to say we're done and to have the boldness to like stay the course for what's happening and to say yes to the Lord, like that is some what I think that is. I think that that is an obvious mark of somebody in ministry who's praying.
Speaker 1:I would agree with that. He has to be in tune with the Spirit in that moment, because the natural response you're about to lose your whole volunteer staff is like maybe think about it, or like let's talk about, let's talk about this. You know like it's sort of like a defer and game plan and you know you're trying to like keep the peace or whatever, and figure out how you're gonna crisis, manage this or something, risk manage this through yeah but he was just like yeah, so there was an.
Speaker 1:There was an obvious boldness there which I really really liked seeing um do you think for the volunteers that stayed like, for the volunteers that stayed was, do you think he was given like implicitly? Do you think there was a certain calling happening there?
Speaker 2:I mean there had to have been like within a team like that, when you go through something traumatic on mission, something like, just like, and working with human beings who are broken, who have issues you know we see that in the Bible. You know people not getting along and having to do mission separately, you know, and so I think that that's all really normal but requires a response from a leader for everybody who's decided to stay. So I am sure Bob had to double down and say this is the whole point of this, this is why we're here. If we're just gonna be turning kids away because they're different than us or because they've caused problems and everything, what is the gospel? Why are we? Everyone deserves this, not just so. There's all of that. So I just think that there's a high call in that moment and I think that the volunteers who stay probably feel it too like rededicated of, like dang, they left.
Speaker 1:What's interesting like I think an encouraging thing to take the risk. I agree with you. I think there's definitely a high call moment that happened there and some said no, they couldn't hear it, and the others said, yes. What's encouraging like as a leader in that role, you're almost scared to lose some of your help, right, but if you're articulating the mission you're on and you're articulating the high call, the people who stay are going to be way more fruitful. You know, because they're on board with the same mission. But also like you can't enter into that kind of work without praying, without relying on Christ. You know because there's some stories if you listen to the front part of the podcast before we get to this, like so much of his friends felt like kind of a hopeless bunch.
Speaker 2:You know oh they, they. 100 seemed like a hopeless bunch. It would be so easy to be like, all right, you guys are just. You have to be relying on god for that coming for the coca-cola and for the girls and all this stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, yeah and so, so, yeah, I just thought that the the boldness there would be something that I will want to have, even more so at the cathedral. So then you go through Joe's story a little bit farther and, through the intense pursuit like he was talking about of himself, he ends up on this retreat with several of his friends. So let's take a look here at what happens here.
Speaker 1:If you could like, pause us there in that moment where before and after, you look back and saw all your friends crying, like what were the sorts of things going on in the heart and mind there, like what was the experience going on in the heart and mind there Like what?
Speaker 3:what was the experience? Yeah, I mean, I think, I really think part of it is the gospel. Is, you know, hearing the gospel proclaimed in a way that you can hear it Like there's just objective power in the gospel, you know, and there's obviously there's objective reality that Jesus is present in the room and he's going to do what he's going to do. There's the reality that there are people praying for us and interceding for us, and there was a lot going on, you know, behind the scenes, but I think in the specific moment, I really think it was a focus on the cross. You know, like hearing about Jesus dying on the cross and then being left with some time to deal with it.
Speaker 3:You know, like cause, I think one of the biggest things that I think everybody can fall victim to is distraction. You know, like you just do stuff so you don't have to think about it. You know, but to hear that God loves you and he died on the cross for you and then to have a chance to deal with it is just powerful and and to have, and that's a lot of times what retreats do is they. You're retreating from any obstruction, any distraction, anything that would stop you from having an opportunity to hear what God's been trying to tell you anyway. And so, yeah, so I mean I think like practically in that room it was. You know, they're playing music in the background, the lights are dim.
Speaker 1:Jesus is there, you know, but God was doing something different you know, yeah, I love what you said about the chance to kind of address that or answer that or respond to the truth of the gospel, because your point, like we could hear it, or we could hear it in RE, or we could have this small moment, but to have the time set aside where there's silence and it's safe to respond.
Speaker 2:So I love this because I think so often with retreats, often with retreats, there is a disconnect between what the Lord is doing and all of the prep work that is surrounding a retreat, all of the people trying to make something happen, trying to add as much content into a retreat as possible, when sometimes, like that's not what you need on a retreat, you need when somebody's going through that, when you're setting up, when you're trying to build a space that gives someone the opportunity to have an encounter with the Lord. Like you want that. I just love that. He said you want that time Like that's why that's the whole point of retreat to step away, to remove distractions, that's why that's why it there to be hearing everything, but also just like a moment of like you get content throughout the weekend, but you have to have a moment where you're just with the Lord, thinking through all of these different thoughts that you had and giving him the opportunity to really speak into it, whether that's through music, silence, moments.
Speaker 2:Before Joe was in this adoration moment, like you talked about, his friends started crying and they were smoking a cigarette outside of the church because they didn't want to. There was probably spiritual attack happening that didn't want them there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they were almost avoiding the serious moments of the retreat.
Speaker 2:But Jesus chased them out of there, chased them outside of the room went out with them and it was absolutely beautiful. And I think the other thing that Joe highlights here and this is something that in the retreats that I've led, that I'd like to get better at is the intercessory prayer piece of it, Like even within our podcast, like what if we had a team of prayer? This is something Joe's very good at and this is something that our office, that the youth office, lost as he left.
Speaker 1:Yeah, side note if you get involved with Vagabond, you'll get intercessory prayer texts. Yeah, I get them all the time.
Speaker 2:I open a lot of them, but not all of them, but they're all. But that's all there and you actually get them. So that's just something that obviously has stuck with Joe all the way. From this moment, which is a real piece of discipleship what you experience becomes what you would like to repeat. That's right and that's both in a good way. That's both a good and a bad thing, sometimes, Like if you just have this expectation that everyone else will encounter Jesus in the same way and we're all just different people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I want to stay with you on the point of intercessory prayer there and I want to kind of come up 30,000 feet. So Joe described how kind of he was experiencing it and even invited a little bit of what might have been happening. In the moment when the gospel is proclaimed we don't do much Like we're not the agent of evangelization. The Holy Spirit is, and so I thought it was beautiful here when I asked you this question about that oration moment, because we hadn't heard that yet. And we see the supernatural thing like the kids crying outside and then everyone coming inside and crying when the gospel is proclaimed, crying outside and then everyone coming inside and crying when the gospel is proclaimed, but God pursuing them while they're out smoking a cigarette. To me is this evidence that we're not the agent of evangelization, and so usually when we set out to preach the gospel, the Holy Spirit is going before us to prepare the heart of the one that's going to receive. And so I would be willing to bet thousands of dollars that the people leading this retreat were praying that way and had been for Joe and his friends that they would receive the gospel here, and that's why you start to see their hearts break before they even hear it right. And then, while it's happening, while we might feel like, oh, our group's heard this before or whatever, like the retreat leaders are still great at proclaiming the gospel because it has power, and so there's a temptation maybe, oh, these guys have heard it, so I'm going to avoid it. And then, yeah, I love the time to respond. Also, I don't know if we'll get to it later, but after this, joe and I had a little if you keep listening in the podcast a little chat about do you think it would have been different if you didn't have Bob in your life, but you were at this retreat? And so there's, after the gospel proclamation, that chance to respond. Someone is also facilitating that response in an ongoing relationship, and so I think those components there are really important. And I'll just like cross compare it.
Speaker 1:So this is a retreat setting but, like many of us have probably led a Bible study, been in a Bible study, been in a discipleship group, where we're at that time in the material where a gospel proclamation is happening, and so like we don't have to overthink it, but the most, please don't, but like the most important thing is the time. So, like I found myself doing this. I was, quite candidly, underprepared. It was like family faith formation stuff at Christ the King and I was leading my little small group with the parents who have their kids in the catechesis on Sundays and I realized what we're getting to when we're prepping on that like relationship diagram. We're like talking about where Jesus is in our life. It wasn't even a full on gospel proclamation yet. It's like prepping for it.
Speaker 1:But the leader's instruction manual says like give people time to think about this, and like I could have just skipped to the next question. But I just paused and prayed and like empowered people to write it out and said we wouldn't have to talk about it necessarily. And then, as I was praying, write it out and said we wouldn't have to talk about it necessarily. And then, as I was praying, they all started talking about it, like they all started answering the obstacles to a life with Christ and kind of answering a gospel proclamation of response. And so I was like I was just smiling and tearily because, quite candidly, I did a poor, I didn't do the best job ever, but I had this instinct in me of like, okay, let's just give this time and pray. So I really didn't do anything remarkable.
Speaker 2:I just opened the door and then prayed in my heart and I think that the devil tries to trigger us into not opening that door a lot of the time. I think the biggest In a Bible study, setting the amount of young adult college.
Speaker 4:Bible studies that I've seen some of them.
Speaker 3:I've led myself where there is a they know this.
Speaker 2:This is basic. I'm not going to insult them or I don't want to insult myself. Where there's this, you're above the gospel mentality hubris. That is just a poison pill in all that we do and can just kill the moment of not allowing the Holy Spirit to be in that moment and to do something through the gospel and having an understanding of its power. So that's a huge. I've talked about this before on the podcast.
Speaker 1:So I would just issue a little challenge while we're talking about this. If you find yourself in a setting where you're forming others like maybe you're helping with a leadership team, maybe you're leading this Bible study revisit how to proclaim the gospel and see if it's not in the content. Is there a place I can? And just like a fun little challenge? If we're all honest, we all need a refresh on responding to the gospel and being reminded that we need a savior, and so what I ended up finding myself doing that morning is I just started answering the same questions, like I gave everyone silence, I started answering, I started writing it down, I started reflecting and yeah, just gosh, giving people time to respond to the mercy of God, to Jesus's mercy, it can be one of the greatest gifts we can give them. So, like you might have content for an hour, stop it for 10 minutes. Let the Lord do something with it, yeah.
Speaker 2:That's absolutely amazing. So then we're fast forwarding quite a ways in Joe's journey to now. He's the area director of Agabon Missions and he starts discussing what does discipleship look like now, with missionaries and everything?
Speaker 3:Pope Benedict had this term that he would use. He'd talk about formation as teaching the art of Christian living. That he would use he'd talk about, like, formation as teaching the art of Christian living, and I see, like taking a time as a missionary is learning the art of Christian living, and so that's one of the biggest parts of my job is actually investing in them and forming those missionaries and, like you know, so they, I would say they do their best time with the kids, but they also, they also are invested in their own growth.
Speaker 1:It's interesting you say that when I, shortly after I had my conversion to Christ fully like a reversion later in life and fully became a disciple, he invited me into a mission and that was mainly the mission fabric of my ordinary life and leading discipleship and stuff mission fabric of my ordinary life and leading discipleship and stuff. But I quickly started to realize like people who either have been full-time missionaries or were currently a full-time missionary, they had something to share with me about how they lived, about how they discipled and like I mean in a playful way I would say, I'm like a little bit envious of, like they had this time in life where they had a couple of years to decide to really be in that space and develop that lifestyle and that habit. And so, like I don't know, like I would encourage anyone who might be contemplating like hey, is now a time for me to be a missionary, like from like the dozens of people I know, like that time and formation and that act of like applying the formation Right.
Speaker 1:So like the people with you like to cite an example, the four people you mentioned like as a team. Together they're actively challenging each other, growing, may have mentors within or with outside the postulate, but then you're kind of helping coach and teach and model them, but they're putting into practice coaching and teaching and modeling the same things to students. So there's this. Obviously they're engaged in missionary work and that's fruitful in of itself, but for the rest of their life they're also going to be able to bear fruit and be better formed and live a life closer to Christ because of these years devoted to mission.
Speaker 2:I love what you said.
Speaker 2:I love the idea that almost just as important as giving the gospel proclamation and doing all these things that we teach and ask people to do, that there's just a sense of curiosity, like, if you want to use the terminology from Sherry Waddell of the importance of living well and teaching within the scope of people.
Speaker 2:And this is something that I've seen done well as a disciple of somebody and I've seen myself have it catch fire within a few different communities. I've seen it within myself where I haven't done a great job of teaching the art of Christian living and having that interior growth be where the wellspring of the majority of the ministry that we do. But I think that's so important, like it almost dummy proofs it If you're like, if one of the main points about being a missionary or working for the church is to grow yourself, it almost forces you to interact with the Spirit and be in the Spirit in a really large way, whereas that's not always the case. So I think it's a really important thing to have as a habit in. Discipleship is like what are we, what are we growing in together?
Speaker 2:and having somebody like ask you that, and the art of Christian living is a great way of looking at it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's very fascinating that this like came up now very much, as has been on mine and my wife's heart lately. But, um, you know, we did a podcast on that ruthless elimination of hurry book and my wife and I were rereading it and applying it during Lent. There's a quote in there that says if you want the life of Jesus, you need to embody the lifestyle of Jesus, and so it's interesting we can think about discipleship as the things we do. But discipleship really wasn't a commonly used verb in the time of the first disciples. It's really a noun, it's who you are.
Speaker 1:I'm a follower of someone. And so what's interesting to Joe's point like to really help us as people who are missionaries, like yes, there are things we need to do to be on mission, but it's actually the fullness of it is like what Paul says, like be imitators of me, right. And so Paul had to have the audacity and the moral authority of living such a good life that he could say imitate me, right. And so there's really this paradigm shift of like sometimes it's more important than it's just. The holiness and mission go on two sides of the same coin, and Joe does this really well, sometimes just showing how I'm living like Jesus lives. Right Is almost more important than a technique about something or a best practice about being a missionary, but just like adopting Jesus's life, style.
Speaker 2:The virtue is kind of just in the middle. There, right, you have the two extremes where you put it all on yourself, you practice your gospel presentation overly. You just almost eliminate the Holy Spirit from the process by making yourself and your excellence the main reason why something is good. Or you go on the flip side of it and you're like, well, I'm praying and I'm holy, and people will catch it by osmosis, which is also a mistake. That's right. So there's a great tension in the middle there. It's a both and for sure.
Speaker 2:And a both and, and I think that.
Speaker 1:If, done well, they're feeding each other. Right, you should. If I have the heart and habit of a disciple and I'm with Jesus, thirsting that more souls come to him, well then I probably will prayerfully like, think about the words I'm going to say in the gospel presentation for the folks and like, maybe I'll realize I'm worried about how so-and-so will receive that, and so, instead of trying to mince words, I'm praying for so-and-so. Right, yeah, there's a I love that about Joe, and Joe models it well. If you spend some time with him, he really does. He does Live the Christian life well.
Speaker 2:He did for me. Well, I worked for him. All of those things were something that he cared about. So the last one from Joe's episode how are we doing on time? We're a little doing.
Speaker 2:fine, we're about, we're pretty good. The last one is talking about and it's not very long after it, which is funny. I almost chose a different one because I thought it was too close together. But this one is talking about. Some of the just more natural obstacles to discipleship are perceived as such and I just love his thoughts on it. I think it's a really important highlight.
Speaker 3:And it's kind of the advantage of you know, I'm old enough to be doing youth ministry back when safe environment hit for the first time and it felt like a tragedy, right, because you felt like, oh my gosh, we can't be alone with a kid Like I.
Speaker 3:Have so many conversion moments, just Bob driving me home from youth group, reading scripture and praying for me, you know, but like um, but it actually, I think, makes us healthier, because now when we, you know, drive kids home, there's a few of us in the van praying together or there's um, you know or they're, they're getting to know more than one interested in adult, and there's actually a study that came out a few years ago that talked about, like what are the conditions that people need to keep their faith after high school, and one of the key components was having at least five interested adults in their life.
Speaker 1:Who kept the faith as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah, who just modeled or who are like. So it would be like an adult that was, had a faith, that was interested in them, you know. And so so it was fun because when I first heard that, like as a youth minister back when I, I would try to find that, like, can I give them a confirmation sponsor and help the confirmation sponsor actually engage with the kid? Can I give them a small group leader? Can I, you know, give them, put them on various sports teams or whatever it is, and like I would try to build how many interested adults? And I think we get to do that here, and so when one person has a change of life and they're not there anymore, the ministry doesn't fall apart. The ministry doesn't start over, which happens a lot. Right, you get a, you know, maybe a burst of a ministry because the original people are there, but then they slowly spin off.
Speaker 2:Why do you like that model? That's what you're about to say.
Speaker 1:Well, it's been a minute since I've been there with Joe, but I think what I went in to say there was hit the way Vagabond is structured.
Speaker 1:He's got his missionaries, but they've got the next layer of all these volunteers, whereas if you might look at a campus ministry setting like yeah, staff has some support, but there isn't that like the tenure of other adults around necessarily at the college ministry level. Or even I go to like a different youth group setting right, like some might be like one youth minister and some volunteers they've sourced some. They've really done a great job of sourcing a lot of volunteers and so I just what I like about Joe's model is like those missionaries are going to go and there'll be some new ones, but the um, the adult volunteers are like rooted in the city and going to be here for a while and have some continuity. But I think the question I wanted to ask the audience here I don't know if we did on that on the podcast with Joe is like who were your five? Did you have any, or were you an outlier and who can? In what ways are you five one of the five to kids in their lives?
Speaker 2:I'm thinking through mine, so mine's interesting and different because I was young, when I was Protestant and sort of becoming Catholic.
Speaker 2:So from a pure, like just Jesus standpoint, I would say that the people that my parents were friends with, um, they had made friends with parents of kids that were in my classes. So I remember, I remember like there was four families that we spent a lot of time with. I spent time with the Richters, the Ripitos, the Blackburns, and, yeah, yeah, the four, three families, sorry, three families. And then us, the Palmers, and, like we would, whose house we were hanging out at at each any particular week. Who's who's driving the kids to Awana that particular week.
Speaker 2:We didn't all live exactly close to one another, but there was just a lot of community time spent. And so there was time spent where Zach's dad, jeff Richter and Lynn Richter talked to me about the faith and when Kelly Evan's mom talked to me about the faith and was reinforcing the way that my parents thought about it. And, looking back, that has been instilled in me and it was a huge grace where, like, being close to Jesus has always been a priority for me, regardless of whether when I was Baptist or when I was a Catholic. So those are the five that I immediately thought of, and this was from elementary school through high school.
Speaker 1:Wow, yeah, on my end my five, I would say. One of the early ones was a neighbor across the street and this is in just the pure being a follower of Jesus. They were kind of in a, I think, just like a smaller Bible church, maybe Ended up, I think, making their way into presbyterian communion. But, um, they lived across the street. They very much had a relationship with christ and modeled it well and they had their. Their young daughter had cancer and I was probably like she was my sister's age, so I was probably seven go to the funeral and um, tony is up there. So I'd looked up to tony, I thought they were virtuous, I thought they like led their kids well and I was impressed with that, even as a kid. And he told a story where his dying daughter told his dad like he was really stressed, daddy, why are you crying? And he told her and she said God says not to worry. And then Tony quotes back the scripture that's found in you know, not to worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will have its own, today will have plenty of its own, something to that effect. And like that moment as a kid, like I'd spent many an evening with this man and I'm seeing his humility saying like saying how his daughter taught him about Jesus, taught him the scriptures that day, and I'm seeing his rawness and that left a mark on me still through today.
Speaker 1:And then another one's my godmother very active, relational. She'd take us to lunch. She was kind of one of those families like you're talking about in the core group, you know, yeah, but she'd take us to lunch on our birthdays and remember our baptismal day. But she modeled very well what Joe taught us in the podcast. She was observant and intentional. So she would be observing what's going on in my life and like be intentional at taking some action.
Speaker 1:And there are lots of books I read, but the most, one of the coolest moments I thought was one time I remember being in sin and like sneaking down to confession Cause I could walk there and not really like telling anyone in my family. Yeah, I was like probably 14, 13, maybe 12. I don't know. And uh, going to confession, like seeing my godmother at confession, which she was probably there all the time, and I was like horrified, but I'm already in line and there she is. And so I had this misconception about confession and the mercy of God. And she said to my mom. My mom was like hey, did you go to confession today? And I was like, oh no, I'm caught and I didn't really respond quickly.
Speaker 1:And she was like, yeah, I saw Jennifer. She said she saw you there. She was very proud that a young man like you would want to go to confession and so, like that little bit of leadership helped me understand some. It changed a limiting belief about Christ in my heart. I remember a high school professor so he wasn't even super direct, but he was just so intentional and bold. His name was James Lewis at Capen, a religious, a religion teacher, and then, frankly, a couple of the priests in college you know were in right after college were key because, let's be honest, I wasn't 25 yet, my brain wasn't formed, I was still a kid. But to flip it, I know he stayed there a little bit. But I do want to emphasize this intent, observant and intentional. And I'm curious right now yours and my life, listeners' life in what roles or settings can you be one of these five people? Yeah, you know any thoughts on the roles and settings out there that we can be one of these five role models for?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I'm going to have the opportunity at the cathedral to do just that, and I think that's part of the draw, uh, for me, of I'm gonna have the opportunity to, yeah, be the first face of doing something outside of sunday mass with with a lot of these kids, but also, but also, be the one who's like really intentionally organizing some of these like parent communities.
Speaker 2:You know, that's like one of the first things that I thought of, like within, like how I want to approach, um, the sacramental life of our parish is just, like you know, adding a little bit more relational stuff into it so that this, this hangout of families, starts happening, because I think that it's the secret sauce deeply, and some of this can happen through, like family of faith formation, which I'm interested in thinking out, and all of that. So there's a ton within my role there. There's a ton of opportunities within my own family. I was shocked at almost our entire family and this is something that I'm going to have to take advantage of too as a parish leader Almost my entire family came to Peter's first soccer game.
Speaker 2:Like everybody Danielle's brothers and sisters, my brothers and sisters, grandmas, grandpas everybody was there and it was not good soccer. It wasn't interesting to watch. Peter was just like you know, running up and down the field and everything. But there's lots of opportunity there, but also within, like the school kids' sports teams, that's right Like having relationships with the different parents in peter's class or um, and and things and stuff that I just haven't done as good a job of being good at with being on the diocesan level. So those are.
Speaker 1:Those are some of my first thoughts. I love that you mentioned sports like that. My kids are at the age where there's a lot of that and I've been observant and like. The question I want to like I want to ask all of us and ask myself often is like when was the last time I praised about a virtue and not an outcome? When was the last time I stopped practice? If I'm a coach and I talked on a plane higher than the game, right, did I pray at practice?
Speaker 1:So there's the basic ones where it's like, okay, obviously we should pray, right. But then there's those moments. So it might be that a kid has a downward countenance about how he's performing and we might step in and articulate that in whatever way is appropriate for the moment, that I'm proud of you, whether you succeed or fail here. If it's your own kid, I love you. Whether you succeed or fail here, you know. If it's your own kid, I love you, whether you succeed or fail here.
Speaker 1:And so there's like lots of little moments where I think if we're, if we don't even have to add anything to our calendar, if we're observant and intentional about the young people in our life, you know, and it's really kind of exciting there. So I left last night's football game like texting one of the coaches like, yeah, something was a little off about that kid, like something outside the game was bothering him, you know, almost just wondering like, yeah, we should just lean in and know him a little bit Right. And so I think there's opportunities that are before us that we can be that person. It might not be a formal role, yeah, like I might not be their godparent or whatever. It might just be a kid's friend. But also fast forward, when they're older and some of you guys have already been through this milestone Kids coming over after the high school football game, hanging out at your house, like that's a great opportunity. We're sitting around in the kitchen, you know, asking them about their life. Who knows where that could go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's so good. So much more we could talk about, but we've got a whole nother podcast.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we've got a whole nother reaction to go to. You want to jump into Jaren? Yeah, Okay, sweet. So Jaren, if you guys haven't listened to it, he was with us here in the diocese at the Young Adults Group, involved with some stuff with Jace, and he's at Focus right now and we're going to hear some of his story. The first part, other than Jace jeering me at the beginning that I highlighted to step into, is this also an encounter in adoration?
Speaker 4:So yeah, basically get this invite to come to Steppen and they're like we're going to go to this thing called adoration. Beforehand and like pseudo-catholic, I probably should have known what that was and I had no idea. Like I just was like, what is adoration? Like we're gonna go to adoration, okay, um. So they tell us to, um, meet him at the cathedral. And, uh, I get there and none of the girls show up, like literally no one is there it's just me.
Speaker 2:What a bait and switch.
Speaker 4:Baby, no girls, just jesus yeah, yeah, um, and so I think just like experiencing, uh, a lot of like man this is not why I came here, but like I guess I'm going to stay and so I think just getting in the pew and yeah, I mean obviously the summit nights you guys put on are amazing Lots of praise and worship. Candlelit cathedral the cathedral in Oklahoma City is absolutely beautiful. The lights are all dim. It's just really a place that you can encounter Christ in a very real way. And I think just kind of sitting there and watching as like the monstrance came out and every Catholic in the cathedral just kneels and watching as Christ is, I just got chills with you saying that that's cool.
Speaker 4:Watching Christ, just like being processed through the room, and I think, like and seeing that people were following the monstrance with their body, like with their head, to the point where, like they are literally aiming to see Jesus. And it's like in that moment, like I just became uniquely aware that like Christ is here in this room and he's in front of me, and like my life has to change, like right now, and not even knowing what that meant, not even knowing like anything about, like what any of this was going to look like, but just wow, uniquely aware that like there is a God and he is right here in front of me.
Speaker 2:He's right there. I love that clip from Jared because just it highlights how we can set people up for the best chance of success.
Speaker 2:You know, like he talked about like the first way that like helped him move from I'm sitting here to try to find a girlfriend to, oh my gosh, that's Jesus was other people's, was the Lord using other people's postures to help him understand, as a human being, what is happening, and that's like. That's like a really it's kind of an animal thing of you know, like when you think of like a mob mentality in a way, like if a bunch of people start running, I'm just going to like start running that direction too because they're afraid of something you know. But it's just like the community modeling what, the truth of who Jesus is and demanding a response for him.
Speaker 1:That's right. Yeah, when he mentioned that, you know, monstrance comes in everyone kneels and we hear at the beginning of the clip like he didn't understand what adoration was. Yeah, and so I think, quite you know, hats off to the folks who are actively inviting people on the edge into this, right. So that's a beautiful observation. But I loved his quote too. Like, in this encounter in adoration, he encountered Jesus and he says now everything in my life has to change, right. So what's cool is there's probably ongoing curiosity, openness to what God's doing, even though he was going to this Catholic Young Adults thing to find a girl. Maybe is what we think it was?
Speaker 2:I don't think it was.
Speaker 1:maybe I think that was the goal and so like but even though that was his goal and that's what God used to be around, and probably in the background there was like I'm gonna be a good, better person for going, and all this Like there was probably curiosity and openness and some trust to the people around him and he was probably moving to seeking. I would think at some point there, if he was so ready. Here I'm walking through Sherry Waddell's thresholds of conversion. So he's looking, actually, honestly, he's seeking. He was just seeking the wrong thing, right. He's seeking a woman, right, and so that would fix everything. And so he's moving through these thresholds and he's seeking. Well, then he sees who he's seeking, right, and so how loving of a friend to invite him to this because he can see who he's seeking. And, to your point, it became obvious to everyone else If everyone's moving on their knees right when this thing goes by, this must be Lord, right. And so there also he had this silence to ponder. Like that this really is Lord, yeah.
Speaker 2:I love listening to Jared talk about. I could hear that I've heard that story many times. That wasn't the first time then.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and it's just so fun.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just to enjoy how Jesus does what he does and just watch it. How Jesus does what he does and just watch it.
Speaker 1:So the next clip I want to pull is Jared talking about you know, a special person in his life, and we'll unpack it after. We look at it Same night, though. Same night, yeah, so this is just a little bit later. And do you know, this is Weston we're going to hear about. Had he met Weston before, do you?
Speaker 2:know, I think so, I think he says he meets him here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think he was like kind of knew who he was, sort of like seen him at events but didn't really know him.
Speaker 4:And that night I met one of my best friends. His name is Weston Weston Ishen. He's another Focus missionary. He serves at Louisiana Tech. At the time he was just in college and was kind of involved with Focus at UCO. And so, weston, just like immediately we had this like kind of brotherly, like familial bond and it was just an experience where it was like man.
Speaker 4:I feel like I've known this guy my entire life and that's weird and so, weston, you had met him for the first time at Summit, at Summit or after Summit that same night, the first time at Summit or after Summit that same night, yeah Right, Right after Summit, yeah, and so he he's just like talking about adoration and I think he could just see that like I just had a profound experience like here and like I'm I'm sharing like bits of it but like not even necessarily comprehending super what happened. And he's just like, dude, do you like want to go grab something to eat or something? And I was like absolutely so. The next day for breakfast we meet at like cattlemen's for breakfast and we spent six hours in a booth talking. Like it was the most intense conversation of just like him sharing his testimony with me, me kind of giving him a background about myself, and it's just like it flipped.
Speaker 2:How do you go from? I just met Jesus, I just talked to this guy and I'm going to spend that much time in a booth with this guy in a restaurant.
Speaker 1:That's right and really, to be honest, before he showed up at Adoration, he was in the like I'm going to go country dancing with girls, like that's why I'm here, right, yeah, quite a change in just a. This is just one day turn. I mean, this is 12 hours, basically, right, is what time is summit? 7 pm, okay, and so he's breakfast the next day. So we're, this is beginning 12 hours later.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 12 to 14 hours later yeah, and this is just like a beautiful all-in type of encounter and like different people who have different ways of encountering the Lord. But man, the freedom that I want to highlight, that I think is or like the principle that I want to highlight is like the freedom of Weston to you want to get breakfast a really amazing thing. Like that isn't always my first move when I meet somebody, even if I really like them.
Speaker 1:Let me ask you a question, because I agree that what Weston did here and we'll hear later I think it's very critical in Jared's life and Jared's story. But you have done things like this before and I'm sure many listeners have. But can we unpack that? Put yourself in Weston's shoes? Like what are you feeling to know you need to lean in when you're observing, like what's going on inside you as someone who's like reaching out to another, who's clearly got the Holy Spirit doing something in them? Like what's the interior movements of someone in Weston's shoes?
Speaker 2:the interior movements of someone in Weston's shoes. Yeah, I mean, the first thing that I feel like I would have noticed being in Weston's shoes was just like something happened to this guy and he's trying to figure out what it?
Speaker 2:is. So there's that something happened to this guy and you'd pick up on I would pick up on fairly early Like this guy isn't churched. This guy is coming in Like I think the word that I tend to use for early baby Christians is raw of like hasn't necessarily been explicitly seasoned, doesn't know what the right words are yet, and that makes the moment even more precious, more precious. And so when you notice those things and you're like this person's brand new, this is his first time doing a whole lot of anything, was just trying to go two stepping with a girl Then I'm realizing it in the conversations like this person probably hasn't been loved and like seen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so there's intellectual observations. Do you ever feel anything of the spirit at that moment, and like what's it feel? Like what's the sensation?
Speaker 2:Sometimes you feel prompted to ask something in particular. You know, I've had moments where I feel really called to ask you about your time in adoration, for whatever reason, or what was your life like before coming into this? You know, like there's, like there's, there's, there's moments where, like that desire bubbles up and it's obviously from the spirit and it happens For me.
Speaker 1:There's like if I were to describe the sensation there's a like a warmness in the heart, a little bit like, honestly, like in my chest, yeah, and it's almost like the nervous. What I feel is like the nervousness you might have chest and it's almost like the nervous. What I feel is like the nervousness you might have, like if you were about to do something exciting and you're not sure if you should or take a risk, that you would feel in the upper part of your gut. It's just a little higher than that for me. It might be different for others and I have this sense that I want to resist that, but I have so much peace in not resisting it.
Speaker 2:Does that make sense? Yeah, it'd be easier to just do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it'd be easier to do it and it doesn't actually feel rebellious in doing it. It gets peaceful as the more I lean into doing it. But I can feel like a tinge of risk or a tinge of wanting to kind of hold on to it and see if that's of God and it kind of rises out Like when I try to push against it it sort of rises out of me yeah, if that makes any sense.
Speaker 2:And I think what Weston illustrates here is like time is so important for generating intimacy and generating the ability to have some of these conversations. Like Jared summarized, a six-hour conversation, not including a one-hour conversation after summit, unpacking some of this stuff how many people do you know are just willing to throw six hours of their day away?
Speaker 1:That's right Scandalous.
Speaker 2:How many people do you know are just willing to throw six hours of their day away to sit with a guy that they just met who's just trying to find a girl. Yep, you know that doesn't come off as productive, or something like that of even later on, when I knew who Jared was and like met with him and he was trying to talk with me about these different things, I didn't. My first inclination wasn't to go sit down with him for six hours. Maybe it should have been. It was to like give him a phone call, um, and like make an invitation. Of course he was like very quickly progressed to different stages and didn't know what I was doing, but, um, but yeah, I think the scandalous amounts of time piece is really important to look at here as like part of the recipe for that success.
Speaker 2:And that's like, and that's like a gift and a sacrifice. Like Weston was probably having a great time and you know it was in college, maybe didn't have classes that day, didn't have work, whatever. But there's a lot of moments in a six-hour conversation at coffee or whatever breakfast to say, well, got to go work on my homework. Got to go do something else where I don't feel like being here anymore. And he didn't do that. Yep, yeah, and I think that's profound, absolutely.
Speaker 1:The other thing I'd want to highlight from the quote that I've definitely experienced with at least half a dozen people in my life is this he articulates this brotherly bond Like I felt, like I've known this guy my entire life and so like just an encouragement if there is someone like that in your life and you feel like you need a little bit of a recharge spiritually, go back to that person or you know, go back to that that moment. But if you sense that like this person feels really familiar, I feel like I know a lot about him, like lean in, lean in, alrighty. Now we're going to go to to one where I think it highlights how just the call to leadership can be so important.
Speaker 4:Flash forward to like I meet Ryan Delgado. He's like a a young adult coordinator for St Monica's there in the city and, you know, have like one of the best nights of my life just hanging out with their young adults and really just chilling and enjoying it and I was like really considering making St Monica as my parish and just driving like 45 minutes from where I was in Midwest City to make that my parish.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and.
Speaker 4:I tell that to Ryan.
Speaker 2:It's really tempting.
Speaker 4:Yeah, no, and I think like, yeah, there's good community, it's really tempting. Yeah, no, and I think like, yeah, there's good community, it's really beautiful. My friends go here. This is great. And you know, ryan, I very intently remember him sharing with me like you are always welcome here. But I really think that you should start something on your side of the city. And I remember thinking to myself like I met Christ literally yesterday and we're talking about like starting a young adults group in Midwest City. So I had no idea what that meant and I just kind of told him like I don't really know that I can do that, and he just kind of went God doesn't call the qualified, he qualifies the called.
Speaker 2:Wow, any thoughts?
Speaker 1:I love that Ryan just went there, you know, and encouraged him to do that. I love that Ryan just went there, you know, and encouraged him to do that. Um, I love what I guess I would encourage us, like as folks active in the church, that, like giving someone agency and responsibility in the great commission is very important, you know. And to say that a less fancy way, like letting someone take some ownership in this faith we have and encouraging them to do it, it forces interiorly. He didn't. I mean, he's kind of saying this in his resistance.
Speaker 1:But I remember this moment in my life that my wife said hey, I'm starting a Bible study with the gals, you're going to start it with with the guys. And I remember hearing the same things, like I've seen missionaries do these things. I know what this looks like. I'm not, don't know if I'm ready, and so I had to go to Jesus, you know, instead, I either shy away from the opportunity or I take to Jesus. You know what, I'm not ready and I kind of lean, begin to lean in. And so it would be very similar, like when the disciples started walking after Jesus. They weren't fully prepared and ready, they just began to move with him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that it's a like I love that quote, like everybody uses that quote. God is the call qualified, qualifies the call. As somebody who's about to start working in a parish, I just want to highlight how awesome it was for Ryan to say what he said. I'm imagining myself at the cathedral and I have somebody like Jared wanting to come and be around and join my parish. I'll be like come on in, boy Water's fine. But Ryan had a more global perspective in that moment I would have been seeing like oh heck, yeah, leadership.
Speaker 3:Let's go.
Speaker 2:Even now I'm not sure if I would have been able to when my main focus is serving the people of the cathedral. So that's a really beautiful thing. But, just like man, when you have an authentic counter with Christ, how quickly you desire to serve is beautiful and it's something to like really note in yourself that that that's that that's a really key part of our discipleship. Is like that feeling, that urge like I can't not do this and I think it's a really key, a really like probably a staple of Catholics in 2025, probably over the course of like the 2000s, even, where we just we get a little, we get a little fat, dumb and happy with our sacraments and with our own prayer lives and with what the Lord does for us a little bit consumer. And I just think that when we get into that man we've stopped encountering and when we stop encountering we lose that and we lose, like, the desire to bring others there.
Speaker 1:It's interesting we talked on this with about this with Joe, almost the other side, with Joe's episode, the art of Christian living piece. Yeah, one time I was like really curious about like how missionaries are living and you know why their life is this way, and I and I actually mind mapped it like okay, here's what it looks like your life would be. And I put it in front of Chris Beck, who used to be a co-host with us, and I said, hey, of all these like areas of support, ways of living, activities, what's the most important, you know, for you as a missionary and one of them was one of them was activity. He pointed to proclaiming the gospel and he pointed to prayer and so it was interesting.
Speaker 1:He kind of highlighted like holiness and mission, like two sides of the same coin and so in some sense, like Jared's having a conversion, he's growing closer to Christ, he's wanting to pray.
Speaker 1:These things are happening and, like it would be natural if you just met the most wonderful person ever to want to share it with someone Right and so like, cut off the share part, like you stifle your growth as a Christian, as a disciple. This was like this back to that, both end right. So it's early growth and I think it's. We discount that sometimes we think people need to be credentialed but like the woman at the well converted that whole town she went back to and the disciples were just there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and Jared turned around and was the most influential figure in young adult ministry.
Speaker 1:I remember seeing him before I knew his name. Like people were literally following him around, like you had this group of people going to different you know Lenten things or different conferences.
Speaker 3:It was pretty amazing, it was awesome.
Speaker 1:All right, we'll get to our last clip here before we land the plane. Yeah, I got a great missionary. He's going to be like an awesome DJ someday. Oh sorry, back that up a little bit. Okay. So we're rolling forward where Jared is at SEEK, the SEEK conference, and he's about to encounter his friend Weston, again that we heard of.
Speaker 4:I remember wanting to see Weston at the conference. He was there with his students from Louisiana Tech and first time I see him and it's probably been months since the last time and I walk up, I'm like man, you guys got a great missionary. He's going to be like an awesome deacon someday. And he's married, you know whatever. And he goes Jared's going to be an awesome missionary one day.
Speaker 4:And I just remember being like what are you talking about? Like, stop. Like can we just stop pushing this? Like I don't want to do this, like it's not. And so he was just like dude, I really think you should think about it.
Speaker 4:Like let's eat lunch at the conference one day was just like dude, I really think you should think about it. Like let's eat lunch at the conference one day. And so go eat lunch and we're sitting on the floor and I'm just like there's people walking by and I'm just like I have done so much with zeal and just like this is what we got going on and these are the parishes that are involved in. You know, like this is what we got going on and these are the parishes that are involved in. You know like it's just going great and like I am so excited and these are the things that we're doing.
Speaker 4:And he's just listening and happy and nodding along and you know, I kind of turn it around on him like why do you want me to be a missionary? And he's like, dude, every bit of that sounds absolutely amazing and I think that you should leave every bit of that sounds absolutely amazing and I think that you should leave all of it and be a missionary. I'm just like I don't get why. And you know, still I didn't understand why. But I ended up talking to one of the seminarians, henry, and I remember having a conversation. Just because I'm an external processor, I'm telling everybody this crazy missionary dude Weston wants me to be a missionary.
Speaker 4:I'm like dude I got like a house, a car, a dog, like I can't just uproot and leave. This is nuts, you know. And Henry, just kind of like, pulled me to the side and was like you know, have you prayed about it? No, not at all.
Speaker 2:That's the dangerous part.
Speaker 4:Yeah, no, absolutely. And and he was just like, well, firstly, you need to pray about it, firstly, you need to pray about it. And he said, secondly, um, like, what is your goal with zeal? And I was like, well, I just want to like lead people to know jesus and I want to build community. He's like, bro, focus literally builds community. And I just remember like hearing that and being like shot dude, like I just felt like, oh, like he's right, and that is frustrating to me.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So for the sake of time, I want to go on for a second. We there's a couple other things we hear before jason I react. We hear um jared talking about having a house and a dog and responsibilities and his job, and and we just heard him talk about Zeal, which is a part-time mission he was doing that he was really excited about, and we go on to hear him continue to struggle with you know, struggle through and pray with this throughout the life of the conference. So, yeah, I just want to react to what happened here, what Weston said, and get your take.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I really enjoyed and I'm thinking like just the oh man, I just love boldness, the boldness that the Holy Spirit can embolden us to have. That all sounds great. You should leave all of it like. That doesn't make any sense, any rational sense. Earlier that year I had asked Jared if he'd ever considered being a missionary and he was like no dude.
Speaker 2:I would never do that ever, ever like seriously, jason, ever like. It was very firm. I had asked Jared if he'd ever considered being a missionary and he was like no dude. I would never do that, ever, ever Like seriously, jason, ever.
Speaker 2:Like it was very firm and so hearing him and I even could see this a little bit when we went to seek and yeah, I was just seeing it all happen within Jared, this just wrestling with the call and then ultimately saying yes, which is so hard to do. A call like that where you have so many good things, like I mean that's what's happening for me in a bit of a lesser way, like moving from the archdiocese to the cathedral, like I've loved being here, We've done amazing things, it's been great, but the Lord was really firm about the cathedral. So this idea of saying yes and having a disposition of yes to the Lord like not in a funny Jim Carrey yes man movie type of way but in just being open.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the thing I'm humbled by hearing this is like when I hear Weston's word like that, that all sounds great, I want you to leave it. I hear Jesus' words like to the rich man go, sell all you have, come, follow me Right. Like that's what Weston said to Jared. Like that's great, sounds awesome. Sell it all, gone Jump full. That's great, sounds awesome. Sell it all, gone Jump both feet into mission with Jesus, right, yeah.
Speaker 1:And so I left this piece of it with a challenge that I want to kind of lead to the listeners. It's like, okay, probably not all of you I'm sure some of you are based on who could be listening are being called to be a focused missionary, but all of us are being called to go, sell and follow Jesus. We're being called to go, not wait and think about it forever, to detach from anything we're attached to and to follow Jesus with our fullness, not just part of our effort, not just part of our heart, not just a partial commitment, everything. And so with Jared's story here, like there's the comfort of his job, his house that he owned, his dog, his career trajectory, maybe wanting to like, date a woman around here, all the fruitful things he was doing, the way he saw it, and the Lord was saying no, no, no, I want all of it.
Speaker 1:I want it all, jared. And so I just want to like remind each of us the Lord says that to us too, to each one of us I want all of you. I want all of you here, and so, whether it's like relationships we're worried about how people will perceive us when we go all in for Jesus or it's the things that we find comfort in that we're worried about. If it's how our family might perceive this, just know that the Lord will provide, and he is asking for you to put everything on the line.
Speaker 2:Yeah, every time. Yeah, every time. Well, this has been awesome. It's been Red Dirt Catholics. I'm Jace and I'm James We'll see you next time.