FACT(s) of Mission | Part 3

In this episode, Jayce and James continue exploring the FACT framework, trade birthday stories, garage rock tumblers, and sports mishaps before turning to the heart of FACT: why teachability might be the hardest and most vital trait for disciples and teams. We map the D1–D4 learning journey, name wounds and pride, and offer simple steps to receive correction with humility, curiosity, and courage.

• Family rhythms that make celebrations work
• Why teachability matters more as you get better
• D1–D4 model for competence and confidence
• How wounds distort feedback and trust
• Pause, curiosity, and naming emotions
• Detachment from outcomes and secure identity
• Team health when feedback is safe and direct
• Discipleship as lifelong apprenticeship to Jesus
• Two challenges: find a mentor, pray through past correction
• FACT audit for honest self-review

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Links and other stuff from the show:
Pastoral Letter, "On the Unity of the Body and Soul:" archokc.org/pastoral-letters
Red Dirt Catholics Email Address: reddirtcatholics@archokc.org
The Book "From Christendom to Apostolic Mission" (Digital and Print): Amazon
The Social Dilemma: https://www.netflix.com/title/81254224
Daily Examen Prayer: https://bit.ly/309As8z
Lectio Divina How-To: https://bit.ly/3fp8UTa

Transcript

Birthdays, Rocks, And Family Life

SPEAKER_04 0:30

We're back in the saddle. We're here. We're back in the saddle. It was Peter's birthday yesterday. Nice. So, and it's actually kind of crazy. So, recently he's been getting really into rocks, which is funny because his name is Peter, you know, the rock pond. Like the build the church. So we got him a couple of a couple of rock things. Nice. Um, we got him this whole dick kit that has like a pickaxe. Like you could kill somebody with this pickaxe. So I had to like go through all this safety stuff with him, what not to hit with this at pickaxe, and this whole shit shovel kit. Backyard. Okay. Just digging it out. And his uh his grandparents have a bunch of land, so he could take his bag out there and go to town mining for rocks. That's what he wants to do. Um picking away.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

Um which if you are in a rock area, like you're gonna want that over just a shovel. Like that's gonna be perfect.

SPEAKER_04 1:28

Yeah, yeah. To get out of once you get once you get lower than like a foot, it's like actually really hard to get much farther into the ground without it. So anyway, he's got that. He's doing it. We also got him this I I kind of well, I don't regret it, but there's a part of me that regrets it. We got him this rock polishing thing. Um but what I didn't realize is how noisy it was. So basically, this thing is like a little tumbler that just constantly spins. Um you put rock, yeah, you put rock, you put grit, you put all your you put like a handful of rocks in there. And like it takes a month to go from rock to pretty looking stone you could theoretically put in a jewelry set or something like that. Just constantly spinning. So we've like put it in the garage. Kind of like a small version of your garage. Like a hobby version one. Um, and it's just like Does it sound like if you were to put rocks in your in your dryer under it? Basically a small dryer um with water and all this stuff. So he's really excited for it. And I'm glad it's a set and forget thing. But garage is then you gotta change that. Yeah, and then you gotta change the grit and all this thing. Um but uh but he really liked it.

SPEAKER_00 2:48

Um you haven't been able to see the results yet, because this was just no, we started yesterday.

SPEAKER_04 2:52

Started yesterday. Um then we were trying to convince him. Do you do you do birthday dinners with your kids?

Noise, Tumblers, And Parenting Wins

SPEAKER_00 3:00

We actually do like birthday breakfast usually, like at like make it special because then it works with whatever's going on schedule-wise.

SPEAKER_04 3:06

Like, do you go somewhere or is it just at home? Usually at home. Okay. Yeah. So we were trying to take him somewhere for a birthday dinner, and I was like, Peter, let's go to Red Robin, they'll sing to you, or bring you a free whatever, and or let's go to Texas Roadhouse to get to sit on the saddle, it'll be so fun. Um, so I was trying to, I was trying to get him there, and he was like, uh, no, I want to go to Panda Express. Or like Panda Express, really. And he was like, Yeah. So so we go to Panda Express, and then poor kid on his birthday, on our way back, somebody rear-ends us. Not like nothing crazy, like nobody was hurt. Um, but I was like, sorry, buddy, it's gonna take a minute. And so went through the whole process and I was like, it was it was pretty funny. But anyway, but so you do birthday breakfasts. Yeah. What's special about the birthday breakfast?

SPEAKER_00 3:57

Oh, usually um whatever is sweet is what's special. I mean, so that could be a cake during breakfast, a pie of some sort, or like cinnamon rolls. So that's usually the special homemade part, and then it's just like whether someone has school or even if we had sports or something in the evening, like there's just a time to be special in the especially theirs in the morning. And you know, we'll sing and open up some presents and stuff, but just kind of enjoy that. The nice thing is for like a home day, because we we do like a blended school where we're homeschooling um all the days but two. Um so if it's on one of those days or maybe we might even move it, like the agenda of the day is a little different. Like the you can lose a lot of the morning just having fun. So that's good. Um I think it also seems to be easier for me, like let's say you do have a pro some kind of programming in the evening, like it's a little easier to like wake up early go into work a little late and and then still have your evening obligations as opposed to like rush home from work at the end of the day, do the birthday thing and whatever else there is, right? So it just gives them some more space.

SPEAKER_03 5:16

I feel that could be after that.

SPEAKER_04 5:18

Um but yeah, birthdays are fun. Jude, baby Jude is here. Yeah, he's uh a little over a month old now, like yeah.

Birthday Meals And A Fender Bender

SPEAKER_00 5:28

Danielle always says that we're almost two months by the time you hear this, probably.

SPEAKER_04 5:32

Yeah, two months probably by the time you hear this. He got baptized. Um Huh? Year and a half old is what producer Avery says. We're uh he's busy, we're behind, he's a busy man. Um yeah, so it's just been awesome. That's fun on that stuff. Jude is so much easier. Alexander, it's my it's my middle name. Nice. Um and uh yeah, he is so easy in comparison to Peter as a baby. Like wild. Like he'll actually sleep in his bassinet in between feedings and different things like that. Like it's it's crazy. Didn't know that was possible.

SPEAKER_00 6:07

The little victories that are awesome as parents, like you know. Are you are you guys sleeping through the night or close to it?

SPEAKER_04 6:14

No, he wakes up. Yeah. Um I sleep through the night because there's not a whole lot I can do. Yeah. Um, but I'll like help with um the on the closer, I'll like get him swaddled and make sure he's like asleep asleep before we put him back in. Um but uh my biology is useless in comparison to my wife's. I get that.

SPEAKER_00 6:39

I'm in the same place. Go figure. That's cool. Anything going on with you life? Sports, more sports, sports? Sports are fun. I mean, we're about to switch from baseball and football to basketball and a little bit of extra pickup football for fun. Um I it was actually really fun last night to get all the kids to give mom a little bit of a break. I got all the boys out of the house. And Gabriel, who's four, hasn't I haven't really done much baseball with him? Like, that's a little harder to just like randomly pick up in the front yard. Like, I mean, yeah, you can play catch, but if you're no good at it, but like the kids don't, the kids will get out the football and throw it around or the basketball and shoot. So he hadn't learned too much of that. And so I'm like playing with him just in the dugout while we're watching the other kids. I'm like, man, he is just terrible. Like as I'm as I'm doing it, you know. And then he he takes his glove off to do something. He's like, Dad, which hand again? And and I started to tell him, and I was like, Oh, that's why you're terrible. He had his left hand glove on his right hand and was throwing with his left hand. And I was like, Okay, let me help you out, buddy. And then once we switched, it was like really natural and he looked pretty fluid. And that's real. Yeah, fundamentals, right? Like glove on the correct hand and throw with your strong hand. Um, but that was really fun. Like he and I did that for like 30, 45 minutes while Grayson was practicing and uh and uh enjoyed that. Awesome.

SPEAKER_04 8:05

So we're talking about fact part three. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 8:10

Somehow we managed to take apart what we thought was a two-part episode into three.

SPEAKER_04 8:14

Well, we thought we thought it was gonna be one.

SPEAKER_00 8:17

That's right.

SPEAKER_04 8:17

We thought it was gonna be one, and then we just kept talking and talking and yapping. Uh some good ones there though. Yeah, I like it.

SPEAKER_00 8:24

If you haven't heard it, you can go back to the prior two of faithful, available, contagious, teachable. Yeah. Today we're on teachable, right? Yeah, the hardest one. It really is kind of the hardest one. Probably the most important. Well, faithful is probably the most important.

Why Breakfast Celebrations Work

SPEAKER_04 8:37

Faithful's probably the most important, but also like faithful is just like a one decision of like, what does the church say? You know, and changing your changing your mindset on that, and like obviously like developing your prayer life and all of those things are part of it. Um but teachable is a whole nother a whole nother game plan. Uh but let's say it let's say a prayer really quick. Yeah, let's do it. Amen. Lord, thank you for the ability to grow. Um, and for the ability to be faithful. I pray, Lord, that as we have this discussion over teachability, Lord, that our that our humility will be heightened and will grow, that our pride will be shrunk, and that we'll have a great discussion about what it means to have fraternal correction, how to receive that, how to have a posture that's open to that, um, for the sake of the gospel. In your name we pray. Amen.

SPEAKER_03 9:34

Father, son, holy spirit.

SPEAKER_04 9:36

Amen. So teachable. For the most part, what we mean by that is I mean, it it is what it says it is, is like, do you have the ability to be taught something? Like, or are you too good at it or you know, too stuck in your own ways or too prideful to receive something from somebody, which is a whole whole slew of emotions with that? Um, what is what it where does it strike you when it means what it means to be teachable?

SPEAKER_00 10:11

Uh it's interesting. I was kind of like mulling over as we as we knew we'd do this podcast today, like what virtues are embedded in being teachable, and then also like what the key common obstacles to teachability would be or vices. Uh but I think obstacles is helpful because it's not always just a vice. Um, but so like I don't know, teachable, I think about like in my own life, I kind of see two spots. Like one's like wanting to learn, you know, like wanting to be coached and taught and all of that. And then the other is like when the rubber meets the road and that intersects with a need for growth and virtue. It's like, am I able to be humble and receive correction and like lower myself and not let pride be in the way? And uh I think those are kind of two different levels of teachable in some respect. Like if you think of like let's use it like a new job or a new missionary experience, like if you're excited and you're in that D1 learning environment, like you know, you're you're really eager.

SPEAKER_04 11:15

We talked about D1, D2, D3, D4. I don't know if we have. Quickly describe that.

SPEAKER_00 11:19

Okay, I don't know if I'm gonna get the quadrant right, but it's like a four-part quadrant of like competency and confidence, right? And so D1 would be I'm low on competency. Wait. Low competency, high confidence.

SPEAKER_04 11:34

High confidence, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:35

Yeah. And then D2. The hardest would be the I'm low on both. Like I've now aware that I'm actually not that good at this. And so my confidence is kind of lowering. And then D three is actually like right, I'm confident or I'm competent, but I might not have the confidence. And then D4 is like, I've got both, right? And so what's interesting is like depending on where I am in that quadrant, I might need to ask for a different type of leadership. And if you were leading me, you might need to discern, like, okay, what's he need here? So like let's take um D2 for, or let's take T D three, for example. I now know I can, I now I'm good at it, but I'm lacking some motivation or confidence. You just need to coach me and like kind of be a cheerleader, right? Right. Like you need to encourage me and like affirm me. Whereas if I was back in the D2 where I had no confidence and I didn't know what I was doing, like you've got a really hard job, you've got to pick me up and encourage me and give me the technical skill set that I need.

SPEAKER_01 12:37

Yeah, yeah.

New Baby Joy And Sleep Routines

SPEAKER_00 12:37

Both convince you that it's possible and tell you exactly how to do it. Whereas like D1 is a pretty great place to lead someone lots of times because they're like super excited and confident, they want to learn everything and they're drinking from a fire hose. And so you give them technical instruction and they're like, yeah, sweet. They want to learn it all, right? Um, and then D4, another way to put it is you're subconsciously competent. And so the other fun way to think about it, if you're not familiar with that quadrant, is you go from unconsciously not uncomp incompetent to consciously incompetent and then to conscious unconsciously competent or consciously competent to unconsciously competent. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_04 13:13

Yeah, where you don't have to think about it anymore. Yeah. Great little, great little small vignette there. And so oftentimes, like if I'm coaching somebody in something like that, I'll bust that out and try to think that through um from a coaching thing. So that's but keep going.

SPEAKER_00 13:29

It's fascinating here though, for a second, because like it's almost easy to be teachable when you're D1, and maybe even if you're D2, right? Like I'm early, I don't know what I'm doing. Like I'm aware at first, I'm not aware, but I'm excited. And the second part, I'm aware that I don't know and I'm kind of deflated. And so I'm actually like a little more humble. What's interesting is actually in the D4 spot where you're unconsciously competent at something, it might be hard to be taught because like you're really freaking good at what you're supposed to be doing, right? Yeah. Um and there's experience backing it up. And so you could actually be blind to that. Like, okay, maybe you're good at the thing we're doing here, you know, the event or the whatever, but I'm trying to teach you something you're not seeing. Yeah. Or there's a defect of character that as your friend, um, you're looking into me and be able to see it, and I haven't seen it yet, right? And so it might be hard for me to notice that amidst the things we're doing. So it's actually, I didn't even plan that, but it's actually kind of interesting to think about depending on where we are in the area we're serving for doing mission, like we might need different things to be teachable.

SPEAKER_04 14:33

Yeah. So being willing to, and that just takes a certain amount of humility, right? To like when you're subconsciously competent and you're like, I know what, I know what's going on, to be willing to be like, I could be blind.

SPEAKER_00 14:45

I think it takes humility. I think it takes obedience, I think it takes detachment. Um It definitely whatever the opposite of self-reliance is.

SPEAKER_04 14:59

And to be honest, like as you're as you're discussing it, it probably takes healing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:04

To do some of that too, because there's Oh, the hardest fraternal correction is around an area of a wounded of woundedness that you haven't had healing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:12

So you and and I think that I think that it would be wise to say that every single person has some sort of wound instead of somebody saying you you suck at this or whatever. And so some healing has to be involved there. Um and it has to happen organically, and it kind of just has to you there has to be the pain, you know, of uh receiving something from somebody. But you also have to unlearn, like maybe there's a wound, and maybe the wound is justified because it was an unjust correction. But you if if you had a bad correction where somebody tells you to do something and it was a terrible idea or it didn't make you better, you become more heart of stone, of where like other people don't know what they're talking about.

SPEAKER_00 15:59

I know what I'm doing. Yeah, to stay safe, you learn to avoid misdirected corrections. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 16:08

So it's so it can become, like we talk about it in the in this nice little pretty chart of like this really simple thing, but it becomes really messy early on there. So like say, James, say somebody were to let you know something and it stung. Like, and like what do you what do you think you're what are the natural what are the natural emotions or process that you go through when you're thinking from that?

Sports, Fundamentals, And Small Wins

SPEAKER_00 16:36

Well immediately, I mean I think most of us, if we're honest, there's like a certain level of defensiveness that's gonna happen first. And then there's sometimes like sometimes you might move to victim on it. Sometimes you might just flat out disagree or like kind of be blind to what they're saying, like well, they don't have the full context. Um I would say depending on if we're around an area of a wound, those would be like the default impulses that I would have, right? And I think Victor Frankel said this. I'm sure s I'm sure people before him had too, but like between stimulus and response lies choice. And so I think if we're honest, we're all gonna feel that sting and those immediate response invitations. Um I find like just pause is really helpful there, and then being like curious um next. Maybe even like a little playful. Um I think seeking to understand for me is like the the train the learned behavior that's healthy as opposed to the other ones, is like someone gives me a correction, the first thing is like what's interesting is like humility actually like there's a certain feeling to humility, right? It's like when you're being humbled. Like I don't I don't know if it you could tell me unless you've developed some unhealthy pattern. I don't think it's natural to not feel the humility. Does that make sense? Yeah. So like I don't know, if I get a fraternal correction, I'm even if the person loves me, I know they're loving me, like I kind of feel the humility, right? If I'm disordered, it might feel like shame. Um, or if the enemy's involved, it might feel like shame. Um if I'm legitimately wrong, it might feel like guilt. If I harmed this person, it might feel like sorrow, right? Um might feel like embarrassment. Um, or it could just be this little sting of a reminder that I'm not perfect or something, right? So I don't know. I think there's always that little feeling, but then for me, I've been able to become teachable by like asking a question next.

SPEAKER_04 18:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:46

Right.

SPEAKER_04 18:46

I think one of the hard things about receiving that is there's not a you don't tend to get a heads up.

SPEAKER_00 18:53

Nope.

Kicking Off FACT Part Three

SPEAKER_04 18:54

Nope. So everything, everything that's piling on throughout your day is already there and and is going to to be a part of it. So just like awareness is so key early on with that. And like I I really like, I think it's really important. I'm gonna highlight again what you said of just like taking a beat. And like you can vocalize that. You're like, all right, give me a second. Yeah um to to think that through. Um and yeah, I love the curiosity side that you're discussing because you may very well think that that's BS. You know, like I don't think that that's true. But looking at somebody who's had the guts and the courage to bring that to your attention, guts courage, or you know, la lack thereof, even um uh curiosity is going to like disarm the whole thing. Like we're almost getting into crucial conversation territory in here, um, which is interesting. Um great book, by the way.

SPEAKER_00 20:04

Yeah. Crucial conversations tools for talking when the stakes are high. Yeah. Great book. Um It was interesting. You mentioned you don't normally have a notice, yeah, a heads up. But I immediately thought, like, yeah, and some healthy relationships, especially if there's not like boss's subordinate thing, but just like fellow missionaries or friends, you could say, like, hey, can we have some time set aside for a crew con? Like you could actually give the friend a notice. Um, or like, do you have some time for like kind of an intentional conversation? Um, but even then, right, like it might not be prudent to like let someone stew in the fact that you stew in this anxiety of what could impossibly be safe.

What Teachability Really Means

SPEAKER_04 20:40

So it's uh yeah, it's just uncomfortable regardless of what it is. But it doesn't always have to be this like this big thing, right? It doesn't have to be end up being a crew con. It also could just be like a a working on your own interior posture, right? Um like one of one of the things that I'm gonna get to do here that I'm gonna be working on my uh my receptivity is I'll be going on a retreat that I'm not organizing myself for the first time in like five years, or is not being led by like Father Jacques Philippe or something like that, um, which is a different place for me where I'm gonna have to just go in like and seek and be open and like seek to receive. Um and I think that oftentimes we're not interested in some of that, especially if we're in that D4 category, right? Of like you haven't been doing this, I have. Um but I think a a part of it is uh there's just there's just all of this built up within our inner selves of we want to be great. We want to be thought of as great, um, and we want to like be loved, and all of that is there. And we see growth sometimes, especially if it's coming from a a source. That we're not a fan of for whatever reason. That we just want to resist it. Because if we if we make this step or if we make this change, we feel like it could invalidate everything that I was doing before. You know, maybe you need to maybe somebody is giving uh some feedback on how you're leading your Bible study and you feel like you've been doing it for years and whatnot, and somebody comes through and like gives something that would genuinely be a good idea, and you know that it would be, but you're like, ah I don't do it that way. We've always done it this way, you know. Uh which is which I think is an interesting uh thing that you'll have to get around. So I love how you said curi receive it, curiosity, being playful with it, asking those questions. Um But there's how do you how do you, James, like when you're in the midst of that, seek to how do you want to how do you deal with some of those emotions that bubble up when it comes to like, oh, you're saying that everything that I do is wrong or I've been doing it this way wrong for years and all of that? Like where does those things come how do you process those?

The D1–D4 Learning Model

SPEAKER_00 23:18

Um before I answer that, I would say it's healthy like the best way that it's been processed hasn't been in any one of those moments. It's from not getting from not having uh received correction fully well or not being teachable and like getting better across the seasons, but I would say like the biggest shift for me has been one of like an area of healing of like my worth isn't in how I perform, right? And so my worth is in the identity of who I am and the worth's already been given to me. Like it's not threatened by this conversation or the outcomes. And I for me, I think the past five years or so, like that has been iterative moments, and really my whole life, but it particularly the past five years, there's been iterative moments where that's been clearer and clearer to me. And like I just don't put my hope in outcomes, I don't put my hope in w how people are gonna look at me. I don't put my hope in the things I'm gonna do and opportunities. I don't know if that makes sense. And so so from that place, what's interesting is like you go to like dear relationships or other high stakes, like marriage or whatever, right? Like there's still woundedness because like you okay, now we're entering a different territory, like you don't have marriage outcomes, right? But you wanna like you wanna be really great at loving your spouse. So if that's like a new territory is threatened, like so for me, it's like clear that I still need on ongoing healing because that default reaction is a lot stronger in the married married life. Whereas, like, let's say like a someone that I'm doing mission with or a coworker or like a fellow coach confronts me about something that's not going well, like I kind of just view it as a bit of a game, I guess. And not like a game that doesn't matter, but like in this, if the destiny is there as in heaven, and my worth isn't in how I perform, but it's really important that I do what I do best. Like this little feedback loop is just like help me run the race. You know what I mean? Like, it's actually gonna, even though it doesn't matter, it's actually gonna change my performance, which is kind of interesting. So I think for me, like the number one is just having a spirit of detachment. But then the other one would be like having a spirit of like great love and rudeness in your identity, right? So like there's teachable moments, plenty of them before the crucial conversation or the fraternal direction, right? And so if you just like have this posture of like, I love who I am and who I'm with and where we're going, and I'm living out of like my vocation and my apostulate, well then like being teachable is just part of the game. Like it's just part of the thing. Like you're gonna have to continue to have correction happening and new learning moments. And I just think of, is it in John 15? Like in in like every tree that's of him will bear great fruit. Or every every tree, every tree that doesn't bear fruit will be cut down, and any tree that does bear fruit will be pruned so they can bear more fruit. I'm paraphrasing. And so it's like I don't know, a standard of the missionary life that God, like the great vine dresser, will harm you. Wow. Right? Like temporarily. Like it's a beautiful vision. If you've read Chronicles of Narnia, Aslon hurts the three kids at different points. It could be a reprimand. At one point, there's actually like discipline that happens that seems like physical in a way. Um, but like the Lord actually like permits like a little bit of suffering for us or some chastisement from himself, from others that love him as well, so that we will because if you think about it, and I'm using that word kind of audaciously, but like pruning, if you're a living plant, like it's cutting off part of you. Yeah. Like it would hurt, hurt. Yeah, you know, if I doesn't it, you know, it's not feelings, but like if I'm a plant, like that would hurt. It would be real loss. Um, good loss. Loss is gonna bear more fruit. And so I think that I think just like more important than like little tactics is just like of the heart that suffering is for my welfare, corrections for my welfare, mistakes, failures are for my welfare, sin God isn't intended for my welfare, but God will use for my welfare. Right. Um, and so I think like just a different paradigm shift and like taking yourself a little less seriously and realizing this is part of the spiritual life.

SPEAKER_04 27:56

Yeah. And there's a twofold reason. I don't I I don't think I have anything else to like that. That really sums it up really well of like why humility and how the Lord sees it and looking at it there. Shifting a gear to why? Like, why is teachability one of these like pillars of how to be a good disciple? Right. Um, like I think I I can think of two really big key reasons off the top of my head. First one, uh you're not good at something when you just start it. Like you you don't just you just you just don't open something out of the box, like like discipleship and the and the ability to serve on mission, the the ability to serve on teams is something that you grow. Um is something that you grow in, and your experiences form that. So that's a like you're just not you're not that good out of the box. And so so some humility is necessary on that. You might be great in a lot of areas, but nobody's perfect. A. B, um the reason why being teachable is so important is because if you're not, it kills your team. You become somebody who you people avoid. Become really fragile as a team. You become really fragile, and like there it just things build up, communication isn't free-flowing, and there's just like trust ultimately can't thrive.

SPEAKER_00 29:19

When I said like it's one of the most important earlier, like I think what I meant in this statement is it's one of the most fatal if you don't have it.

SPEAKER_03 29:25

Yeah.

When Competence Blocks Growth

SPEAKER_00 29:26

Like it's just gonna totally sink it. Um sink the fruitfulness. Um that's interesting. I uh yeah, I would agree with those two points. The what I as you were talking about it, like you were saying, like, because you you're not great at anything even when you begin. But it's interesting, like on mission and discipleship, we're on this path to be one with God forever, functionally right, and to become sharers of divine nature. Like, well, we're not divine. I'm just gonna be really technical. Like, so like trying to live the divine life is very foreign, like it's non-human. So, like, even if you're like really good at this disciple making.

SPEAKER_04 30:10

We don't have to get down and dirty into the theological repercussions, but I would say that there is something divine about like we were really quick, sorry, because we were made in the image and likeness of God, there is something about the divine life that is represented.

SPEAKER_00 30:25

That's inherent in us. Absolutely. Okay, so thank you for being clear. But being somewhere between, let's say, 16 and 40, living in the world. Living the divine life is foreign to your normal experience. Sure. Is all I'm trying to say. There we go. And so, like, in retrospect to the saints and to our Lord, like, we're all beginners. Yes. And what I what came to my mind was like, I'm thinking of the people that I sought out to be taught by like early in my discipleship. And they're some of the most teachable people. Yeah. And I've known them for like an over a decade. And they would still like want to learn things. And they would probably, if I were to ask them, like, hey, do you think you've picked up anything about discipleship or mission over the past decade? Like, they could probably fill books. Yeah. You know? And these are the people that I would have gone to to like be formed by and taught by. And so I just share that example to say, like, I think the other reason why teachability is important is like this is an active battle we're in. Like, there's an ongoing drama. We're gonna meet all sorts of new types of people. The enemy's gonna unveil some new tactics that we haven't seen before. And like, yeah, it's not just some linear thing. It's not like a random skill set. It's like a secular skill. Um, and it would be good to be teachable for a random secular skill set. And so, like, for mission, all the more teachability is important.

SPEAKER_03 31:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:58

Within the church, I've seen I've just seen teachability kill. I think every team that I've been a part of that's had issues, it is in teachability. Yeah. Like like thinking on it right now. I think different examples that I've been with.

SPEAKER_00 32:12

And I'm also introspecting like if there's moments where something was stagnant that I was at the home of, like my inability to be taught or opened or influenced, like certainly.

Wounds, Correction, And Healing

SPEAKER_04 32:22

Yeah, plays a role in. Um and so the a third thing within teachability that is part of this posture thing that I've been talking about, and you just referenced it and how you've been living out life is is seeking out counsel within it. Like even if you're great at something, like having a posture of hey, I really am a big fan of this, but I want your thoughts. Um, or something like that. I've just been in, you know, parish council meetings, team meetings, you know, Bible studies, discipleships, just so many things fracture when something is either the person giving the correction is really uncharitable about it and needs to figure out some of that. But also the person receiving it, you know, it should you should be able to like our ideal holiness level or ideal discipleship level, human formation level is that we can receive human correction that's given very poorly. And maintain the relationship and take and take what's real in it. Like, and I think that that's like the hardest part, right? And that's what wounds us and makes it difficult, but that's where that's where the Lord's trying to like bring us towards um is having that ability. But it's just it's just always the thing that hurts it. Like a men's a men's group, two guys are like annoyed with each other and don't have the conversation about it, and then they then it fractures it because those two guys are their friendship, what was what was holding that community together, you know? Um so I just think it's very important.

SPEAKER_00 34:06

Absolutely. Yeah, I like what you said. I mean, in some sense, it's kind of basic, like if you go down to like that's and bolt's discipleship, like the disciples had Jesus. The people the disciples led into had the generation above them, right? Or like Timothy was out doing his mission and he clearly had Paul investing in him, right? Paul had the other apostles, you know, had a quite direct thing happen from Jesus, um, of course, when he got knocked off the horse. But like it wouldn't be discipleship if you're not being taught. You know, and and I think so true. That's a really that's a really key point.

SPEAKER_04 34:47

If you're not learning something.

SPEAKER_00 34:56

Like it's related. But I think it's cool that we use the word missionary disciple because it's like I'm a learner who's going out to help with things, you know. And um yeah, it would just be completely stagnant if we weren't learning and being trained by the master. And I think that's the other thing that's really helpful is like discipleship isn't just well, we use it as a verb sometime, it's not like this thing that I do.

unknown 35:20

Ooh.

SPEAKER_00 35:21

It like discipleship is more a way of living, you know, it's it's an apprenticeship. Like so like if I'm going to state of being. Yeah, if I'm gonna be a disciple, I'm gonna always be learning from the master. And the master is gonna use his people to teach me. Like, absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 35:38

So what is uh if you were to pick one challenge, one practical thing to like if somebody wants to grow in this, what would be a a really easy and practical way?

SPEAKER_00 35:49

Um go pray. If you don't have a Paul in your life, like someone leading you, um take it to time in prayer, like wondering um who the Lord might have in your life to lead you. Um that can, you know, is kind of a model for mission and could speak to you and help grow you, you know, like teach you. That's great. Like a real one, like this person you can meet with and they can know you and you can know them and you can be vulnerable. Yeah, the whole the whole nine.

SPEAKER_04 36:20

Find somebody to disciple you.

SPEAKER_00 36:21

Yeah, exactly. And I don't care where you are, right? Like I'm almost saying this to myself in a way, like right now. Like, okay, I or any or any other like fruitful missionary, like, yeah, if sometimes we go through seasons where yeah, someone discipled you at one point, or someone led you at one point, but now they've moved or they've passed or whatever. Yeah, or but like, yeah, is there anyone investing in you that you and you might have to go ask about it?

SPEAKER_03 36:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:48

Especially if you're active in mission right now, like people are gonna assume, like, oh, that person doesn't need whatever. Like you, if you're a disciple, you gotta own that. Like you have to own to your point, like go seek the counsel, seek someone to disciple you.

Pause, Curiosity, And Crucial Talks

SPEAKER_04 37:02

That's a great one. Mine is gonna be that's a great one that's like very checklist. You can you can go do that. Pray prayer, and it's starting with prayer, mine's gonna start with prayer as well. But I want you to think about because we all have it. What's that last one where it hurt you too much, and maybe you reacted poorly, maybe that person reacted poorly. And I I I'll invite you, and this is painful, but to like bring, ask the Lord to bring that forward in prayer and to relive it, and but to have Jesus in the scene with you and just see like and to see what happens, like just kind of like go through that and see how the Lord can like heal you in those things and like ask the Lord how He sees you in these deep moments of where you're feeling maybe shame or something like that, in the terms of a of a correction. Um because uh receiving that healing and finding like I think the buzzword for us would be freedom uh in it. Um like it it it will start there. Yeah. In a big way.

SPEAKER_00 38:15

I love that challenge. I just add one more challenge that's kind of like a bow on it. And I'm just gonna make the presumed close that you have a friend you could do this with. Maybe it's that Paul Line character, maybe it's another friend. Just like do a fact audit on yourself, right? And hang out with a friend that's like willing to challenge you. Like, I feel like if I did a fact audit and I only had 15 minutes, I might be weak sauce on faithful, like it's kind of like presumed, right? But there's if we're honest, there's probably some area where we're struggling in faithfulness. I can trust in the Lord. Yeah. Um, or in faithfulness in like an obedience way. Um, but yeah, like do a fact audit because like I think like self-confession, like several times throughout my life, I have to work on that A, because I'm the kind of person that's just gonna say yes to a lot of things and like be really excited about lots of different opportunities. And so I have to like rein myself back in on the available part. Like, okay, am I keeping my availability for the first where first fruits should go? Like mission and family life and prayer, right? Um, and so yeah, do a fact audit, do it in your journal, share it with a friend, challenge each other. I love it.

SPEAKER_04 39:23

This has been Red Dirt Catholics. I'm Jace. I'm James. We'll see you guys next time.