Fewer Presents, Fuller Hearts

What would change if we built a rule of life that actually fit our days and led us to Jesus? Join Jayce and James as they discuss what this could look like. 

We unpack “rule” as a trellis, not a cage—simple anchors that help prayer, work, family, and rest breathe. New Year energy is helpful, but the real move is choosing one priority and letting everything else take its proper place. That’s where fasting and asceticism come in. From Exodus 90’s cold showers and media fasts to the Daniel Fast’s clarity, we share the honest early struggle—headaches, hunger, fidgety evenings—and the surprising fruits: easier yeses to our kids, a renewed desire for the nightly examen, and a heart that listens without forcing.

Along the way, Jeff Cavins’ challenge hits home: if you have “priorities,” you don’t have a priority. Spouses and children matter immensely, yet the center cannot hold unless we order our lives to the will of the Lord. We explore how daily Mass becomes a fixed star, why saying no creates real freedom, and how fasting sharpens spiritual hearing. 

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Links and other stuff from the show:
Pastoral Letter, "On the Unity of the Body and Soul:" archokc.org/pastoral-letters
Red Dirt Catholics Email Address: reddirtcatholics@archokc.org
The Book "From Christendom to Apostolic Mission" (Digital and Print): Amazon
The Social Dilemma: https://www.netflix.com/title/81254224
Daily Examen Prayer: https://bit.ly/309As8z
Lectio Divina How-To: https://bit.ly/3fp8UTa

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:30

So, what'd you get your kids for Christmas? How do you do Christmas?

SPEAKER_01 0:34

We like to do from us three gifts. Three. Yep. Limit it to three from us.

SPEAKER_00 0:40

Very uh wise men.

SPEAKER_01 0:44

You're right. Tying that into that. Um we don't go theming beyond that per se. Um so we'd get three gifts, but then also obviously St. Nick brings something to stockings and another gift, so there's kind of a cheat there, right? So they end up getting four plus the stockings. And some of the things my wife puts in the stockings is meaningful enough for a gift, you know? So maybe they get five from us, you know, indirectly. Oh shoot, we should have given like a warning to parents.

SPEAKER_02 1:11

Sensitivity.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

You think there's kids like lower than six who haven't figured it out? I I don't know. Oh, I don't know about that. I do remember side note. I don't know. I was probably like second or third grade. I was pretty sure I figured it out that like maybe it was fourth. I don't know. I don't think my third year old third graders figured it out. But anyway, I was legitimately kind of frustrated. I was talking to my sister or my friend. I was like, well, I hope my parents will tell me at some point, like if Saint Nick is real or not. Because when I'm a parent, I'm gonna need to know if I'm doing the thing or if I'm waiting on Saint Nick. That's fun, which is pretty funny. But uh anyway, uh so that's kind of our thing. And we uh we went to mass at 7 30 at Christ the King. So like not a vision.

SPEAKER_00 2:02

No PM Oh so not like the Oh that's right, not the all-in-Mary was talking at Mary was talking about that, our our our accountant, that that's like that's like the chill Christmas. Quiet Mass. It's really peaceful. Christ the King.

Mass Choices And Holiday Rhythm

SPEAKER_01 2:14

So it's probably similar attendances. I mean, there's probably a few more at midnight, I would guess. Um but it's probably similar attendance, just the demographics sort of change a little bit. But like 4 30 mass at Christ the King, standing room only, over standing room only in the overflow too, you know, it's it's pretty packed. Uh you could get there early to save a seat. And so we really liked it because it was like then mass was the main thing of the evening, and we could kind of have a slow Christmas Eve afternoon, you know? Yeah. It's really peaceful. And then Sunday morning open presents.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

And was there was there a particular present that like was a huge hit or um let's see.

SPEAKER_01 2:50

The they had told us they wanted to go to a Thunder game, they'd never been to a Thunder Game, and they had a sense that it was expensive. Um, and they're like, hey, we we don't need any other presents if you get us tickets to the Thunder game. Like, we'll even share some of our money. Like they just wanted to go that bad. And so I kept downplaying, like, I don't know. That's what we'll think about it. It's really hard. Like, and in my head, I knew we were gonna do it. So one of the gifts, you know, is it was a last surprise family gift that didn't count as these three gifts was the Thunder game. Um, and we went that day on Christmas.

SPEAKER_00 3:21

You went to the Thunder Game on Christmas.

SPEAKER_01 3:23

Oh, yeah, Thunder and losing it against the Spurs, but it's really fun game to watch. And yeah, really. And for like a family that was like a I think it was like a two o'clock or three o'clock game or something. Uh-huh. So it's like not near bedtime.

SPEAKER_00 3:34

Wow, they must have lost their minds. Yeah, that's so awesome.

SPEAKER_01 3:37

Yeah, this video of my son. If anyone's ever been, you know, at the beginning, they're like doing the slow clap, like, you know, speeding it up. And he's just like, not only is he doing the slow clap and having fun, but he's like into it. Like he's like, his face is like he's focused on the fact that the game's about to start. Like he's just locked in, his eyes on the court, like almost like he's working hard at something. He was so into it. It was hilarious. They had a lot of fun. They brought their card some of their cards of SGA and others, and when those players would score, they'd like hold up a card. Yeah, it was pretty cute. Yeah.

Thunder Game Reveal And Family Joy

Pokemon Nostalgia And The Pokedex Gift

SPEAKER_00 4:09

Yeah, that sounds amazing. I love that. That's a great thing. Man, I man, I wish Peter was more into smart. So I did I did something with cards though. So Peter is Peter is really into Pokemon, right? Um, so this was a Pokemon Christmas. Um and it it it kind of had a lot of things. So my mom, when I was seven, Pokemon had just come out. Uh, and so I was collecting the cards, it was all the rage. So for Christmas, my mom like got me like this custom looking binder that had like Pokemon on it. But when you opened it up, it had a spot in the sleeves by number of every Pokemon in existence at the time. There was 151 of them to start. Um, and so I I was like, oh my gosh. So I like grabbed my other binder and started sorting them all, and it was just like really cool to like have them organized as a set, and I loved it. Um she did that. So And you eventually got to then kind of complete your whole setup. Yeah, you yeah, you know that it helps you know like who you're missing, you know, you don't have to like think about it, just like the Pokedex is what they call that. Pokedex. Um and so I was like, all right, Peter's enough into it, he's asking for Pokemon everything. He's the same age as me, we're gonna do it. Um but in 2025 versus the year 2000, um, or ninety-nine, um, uh there are 1,025 Pokemon that exist. So I spent about 10 hours uh in the offices at the cathedral when I was on vacation or whatever, and just printing off sheets of like Pokemon, and I even had the pictures of the Pokemon on them for this one with their numbers, and was chopping them up in the in the deal, and I ended up with like a whole table full of just like little tiny cards, and then I had to like go through all of his sheets and like put them in there and figure it out. Um but Peter flipped for it, and it was really cool to like connect to my mom and that in that same way, and like feels it just felt restorative and it was awesome. So he loved that. We went to We Braved Midnight with Little. It was so good. Um, it was actually really funny. So like we did this whole thing where I just thought it would be funny to like uh put your I put a poll on Facebook of like, will Peter fall asleep during Sunday Mass? People were like yes or no and all this stuff. And we were all very sure that Peter can hang um and is gonna stay awake uh for the majority of it. And so we were having fun with all of that stuff, and then like Peter's uncle like bet money again against me and Danielle because like like five dollars and all this stuff. So we were just like we were doing, we were like interviewing Peter ahead of time, like, all right, Peter, you're heading into the game. There's money, there's a lot of there's money running on this. How are you feeling? And he's like, I'm not tired at all. And you know, and different things like that. So it was just really fun. Did you nap in that day prior to? No, we didn't even we didn't even do it. We we we did it completely raw. And um we were more worried about Jude than anything, like, because he had been his sleep schedule the entire break was we were hitting that regression hard, so we were like, we'll we'll see how it goes. Uh and on the way to midnight mass, Jude was kind of cranky in the car, and we were like, oh no, this could be a this could be a long one. But and we got there, he fell asleep almost immediately and was super easy, the whole mass. And it was just we've been in we won't with kids, you're always scared of midnight mass, right? Um and uh, but it was so beautiful for us. I bet um like with what Nolan does with the music program there, and it was yeah, it was just really special. The church was so well decorated, and um a few of my sisters decided to come because who all like I was like, hey, music's really good, and they're like, Yeah, we like the music. So they came. Um, and it was just awesome. Uh Archbishop had a great gospel homily. It was just a little too long for Peter to stay awake. He stayed awake through all the readings, but two-thirds into Archbishop's homily, he started Archbishop sued them to sleep. Yeah, he sued him. What? Yeah, it was interesting. Yeah. Um, and uh, but it was really awesome. But that was like the present. And Peter got all sorts of stuff. He got really expensive things like scooters and stuff from his grandparents, all of that happened. And at the end of the day, his mom asked him, like, what was his favorite thing? It was like, oh, the Pokedex for sure. Um, and I was like, Oh, thank God. Because if he hit if he had said like some dumb five dollar toy that he got was his favorite, after I spent 10 hours doing it, I would have been mad.

SPEAKER_01 9:13

Kind of cool what you said about midnight mass. Your your sisters are not Catholic, right? No. Yeah. It's really neat. Like I had uh a friend reach out, like, hey, can can we invite ourselves to go to midnight mass with you this year? And they're not Catholic. And uh I was like, well, heck yeah. And you're always invited. Um, I don't know if we're going to midnight or not. Would you come with us regardless? You know? And so he committed to come, but then they all got sick. So we'll just have to do a redo. But it it is interesting, like midnight mass at Christmas and midnight vigil mass at Easter, like they do attract folks that are like curious about Catholicism or want to be your friend or companion, because in a practical sense It's just an event. Well, yeah, you know, well, yeah, in the liturgical sense, it's it's like a higher, bigger, like awesome thing that's cool and unique. Um, but then in a practical sense, it's also not during when they would normally worship. Yeah. And they don't have anything else scheduled at midnight.

SPEAKER_00 10:11

Yeah, so they know it's a novelty to it, like the church knew what it was doing.

SPEAKER_01 10:16

Um I was talking to Father Rick, and he said that you used to not have like these afternoon masses, you know, like back in the day. Right. Like you wouldn't have had as many of them. Um and so probably more of us would have had to choose, like, okay, we're doing Christmas morning or midnight. Or we're doing midnight, you know.

SPEAKER_00 10:33

Yeah. And and but it was still awesome. Like we got there at like 11 15 or so because we we I kind of had a sense that it was gonna be pretty full for mid for a midnight mass with everything that the music program does and all that. And it was full by 11 40. I believe that. Uh before. And um, like it wasn't like the there were still more people. We had like almost 900 people in the cathedral for the that 5 p.m. Christmas Eve of mass, but it was awesome. Even producer Avery was there at our midnight mass. It was awesome. Nice. Um uh but yeah, so Merry Christmas, happy new year, um, with everything that we're going through. Like we're kind of the the topic that we're wanting to dive into today is something that James and I have both done. We've we've even recorded we've even uh yeah, we've talked about recording and thinking through some of these things, but this idea of a rule of life um with like asceticism, fasting, and uh how we're experiencing it. Um and it it just kind of came up naturally for us the other day when we were deciding what we're gonna talk about today. So James, why what's the point? Why, why, why fast?

SPEAKER_01 11:56

Yeah. Um I'll start with rule of life first. Good. Um the you know, rule of life, I think often that comes from like the rule like a rule, like Benedictine rule. And I just want to like invite you to not, you know, shell up immediately on like rule of life necessarily if that if you're not excited about that. But rule would be like the root word would be like regular, like to regulate. Yeah. Um so it's just kind of like a a trellis, so to speak, for you to kind of have some structure with your life. It's not meant to like completely, you know, hamper everything. It's really just to help guide, you know, your spiritual life and your and your natural life, honestly. And there's something quite freeing to it. My first experience was like there's this friend of mine, James Silk. He's in town. We were both really in love with the Lord going to young adults.

Braving Midnight Mass With Kids

SPEAKER_00 12:43

Is he still around or did he go he goes he went somewhere?

SPEAKER_01 12:45

I believe he's uh discerning or pursuing the priesthood in Louisiana somewhere.

SPEAKER_00 12:51

Praise God.

SPEAKER_01 12:52

Yeah. Um, yeah, wonderful man. Uh I think he's in seminary. I need to it's been a year or so since we connected, but he uh he just challenged me, like, hey, we all need like a rule, we all need kind of like a rhythm that we're living by with the Lord, like what's yours look like? And so, you know, the just the challenge to write it out and like make the commitment, um, and then sometimes reevaluate with a spiritual director or a good spiritual friend of like, okay, am I going, am I being weak sauce towards myself or am I going over the top, perhaps, and being too scrupulous or trying to do too many things? Because there can be a temptation to like take on every devotion. And then all at once. And if you're doing that, or if you're switching them all the time um without discretion, like you're probably not pursuing, you know, like I've done that at least. Like I've tried to do too many devotions, or I've been excited about this one and jumped around and I've never gotten like continuity. Um but anyway, so like the rule of life would be to kind of provide that structure, that anchoring. Um, and so it's a way of prioritizing the most important thing, your life with Christ, and how that looks in your day and in your weeks.

SPEAKER_00 13:56

In our in our OCIA class, we were we just finished going through like we hit we took two weeks to go through church history, you know, which that means three hours over the entirety of 2,000 years of church history is not nearly enough time, but we did stop and talk about the monasticism starting and what and what it meant for the church. Um we starting with the early desert fathers and becoming popularized through the Benedictine Order with Saint Benedict, kind of like known as the father of it. And like, and he and he wrote a rule, right? Of like, this is when we wake up as monks, this is when we eat as monks, this is when we pray, this is when we work, this is how we eat, is and and it got more and more detailed, and it's a great thing to read. Um but don't go grab that and just directly apply it to your life. Right, right, right. Yeah, it's not not what I'm saying at all. Yeah, you could definitely get a couple of things for it, but when we we're not talking about that. When we're talking about rule of life, and you you're already explaining that. We're talking about um yeah, regular scheduling, habit forming type things, which is which is topical right now, right? Because everyone's like new year, new me, blah, blah, blah. Like, why do you think why do you think that the new year is so why do we prime ourselves so much with that? Like we could we could start a new habit whenever.

SPEAKER_01 15:27

Yeah, we could start it whenever. I mean, I think I mean what's interesting, we're we're sacramental beings, right? Like we're we embody real space and real time. And so I think in some sense, some of us could be tempted to be um uh negative towards New Year's resolutions because so many of them, you know, don't work. Um, but there's something kind of normal and human about it. Like, okay, we just took a period of rest, you know, from work to celebrate Christmas, and the calendar changed over to to begin a new year, and I maybe haven't started back up the normal routines. We're out of out of school at the moment. And so there actually is like it's like a spot. There's a spot and a time, and the natural constraints are kind of right to reboot in a way. Um what I would what I think is kind of cool. Or maybe not return to factory settings as Avery joked about, you know, original sin. But it is it is a way to at least refresh, you know, IT guy would say to restart your computer. So I think uh it's just a a rhythm here and then that makes sense. And then it's kind of cool that the culture does reinforce this as a time. I think the challenge I would lay out as we keep talking this episode is like we're probably not gonna overly talk about New Year's resolutions here. Um, except we might argue for one priority. Um but I think that it's worth if you do want to change something, you have to say no to things and you have to make space for it. Right?

SPEAKER_00 16:58

So like Which one of those two things is harder for you? Saying no more. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 17:05

Okay, so like if Jesus is who you want to anchor your life around, whether you're a beginning disciple or you're coming back in, you gonna need to spend time with him. And if you're too busy, you're saying no to things on your calendar to make the time, right? Um so for me, they're kind of one and the same reality. Um I would say for me it that the the time is the more important move of just anchoring, like, here's when I'm obviously Paul calls us to pray all day, but here's when I'm doing this specific thing with Jesus every day. And I know I can do it every day. It's like reasonable with my life. If I put that in there, it will force me and put in some other whatever the other minor things are, and I make the commitments, it will force me to say no to the other things, the minor things or the or you know, to prioritize it correctly. So for me, I'm not sure which is harder, but the more important lever is to set the time.

Why Midnight Liturgies Draw People In

SPEAKER_00 18:07

I'm my lever, my the one that's more difficult for me, like making the space is not a problem. Like happy to I mean, just like my schedule's like pretty pretty flexible overall, right? Like working for the church and and and all of that. Like some nights I'll be at the church until 9 30 p.m. Other other days I'm not there at all. So there's specifically within like late evening and morning, there's quite a bit of freedom there. Um and yeah, making the space isn't difficult, but like saying no to competing competing goods or even for me like distracting goods. Um like the more things. So saying no to other things, like um like I had a friend call me. I was gonna I was about to do like my examin last night and he called and he started calling and I I had to make a decision. Yeah. Answer the phone. Or call him back after your exam. Or call him back after and and risk not doing my exam um and whatnot. And so I just like hit call and I didn't hit text because I didn't want to be in a text conversation, and I just you know did it and then got back to him. Phone down. Um as one of those small victory Jace wins uh with it.

SPEAKER_01 19:32

Uh it's interesting you say that. I love that you're like saying for you it's it's more on the nose. I I think both are like in some sense they strengthen each other. Yeah. Because what's interesting is like I had to make the time, but I I too struggle with the nose. Like I feel like a big driver is like, well, I want to be helpful or valuable or you know, to these people. And you know, being being called to do that, like it's very easy to say yes, but like in being clear about the priorities, now I've like had to force myself to say no, you know, which is nice.

Setting Up The Topic: Rule Of Life

SPEAKER_00 20:07

Yeah. So there's so there's that, there's like your schedule and all of that, um with it all. But when we're talking about rule of life, there's almost like and we look at the history of the the fancy word is asceticism, which is like discipline, depriving oneself of like theoretically that's something good, fasting, uh, and all of that, and everybody's how everybody fasts can look and be very different. But an attitude that I had had that I think is prevailing a little bit right now. Not for not for all of us, but especially for people who are like who are actively praying, actively going to mass, actively living a sacramental lifestyle, like have made have made their relationship with the Lord a priority. There's there's almost like we look at fasting as like something we have to do or we should do like a around inland time or advent, but also like if something's really, really wrong. You know, or like there's some that there's some huge sin in my life that needs to be conquered within it and and as a result of it, like the motivation behind uh doing an intentional fast, like a food fast as a as it were. It could be anything, like a media fast, yada yada yada. But um I just see so often when someone is in a close enough relationship with somebody else that they are like kind of letting them in and letting them know, hey, I'm fasting over this area. And so often it's like, oh no, I'm forget that. That's that's too hard. Like I've I've seen that multiple. Multiple times. Um and I I don't know. I just feel called to like share with like talk about like we gotta we gotta we gotta change something with that um uh with it and that was that was my that was my attitude towards fasting like James is super good at fasting I'm like I'm gonna I'm gonna brag about him like I'll tell him like hey I need prayers for my family in this particular and he's like sweet no what know what my fast today is going to be over it and like that's the way our relationship has been but almost every single time James has like said that to me personally I'm being like I'm trying to fast I'm not trying to do that like maybe I won't watch a YouTube video today and I'll call it good um but just like that that recoiling away from it and in my mind the like the justification of like I don't need I don't need to do that I'll just you know pray and different things and it's like like Jesus is really like Jesus fasted super intentionally like I'm not telling you to not eat for 40 days but I'm um but we see it all the time in scripture and how powerful it is and so there's just like this initial this initial recoil that I think is prevalent of oh I have to deprive so you're why bother you're in a fasting season right now do an Exodus 90 what uh is your mindset changing yeah um and I like I've done Exodus multiple times like I did it a bunch in college when it was before it was had a nap and was cool um or when and while I was a missionary huh?

SPEAKER_01 23:40

Or when it was super cool because it was whatever.

What A Rule Of Life Really Means

SPEAKER_00 23:43

Um and done it before and I and I did it once or twice. I don't remember I hated them all. Um when I was working at the Archdiocese um did it with some guys in that and I don't know my I'm just like closer with the guys that I'm doing it with and that's a really big yeah thing. Uh so I think that I'm doing better with all of the asceticism. But for those of you don't know Exodus is like um just like super intense like you take cold showers, you fast on certain days, you can't watch TV, all that stuff. So I have a lot of time on my hands.

SPEAKER_01 24:30

Get seven hours of sleep.

SPEAKER_00 24:31

Yeah get all this it's a whole thing. It's great. It sucks but it's great.

SPEAKER_01 24:36

It's like basically if you haven't tried if you've never been exposed to a rule of life you could just receive that one. It's like one it's one they're giving you for 90 days and I think the hope is always like was there something of this that I can be changed and kind of keep anchoring in my life as a spiritual practice.

SPEAKER_00 24:51

Yeah like the point is to the point specifically within the Exodus stuff is to like find freedom. Like that's their that's their tagline their tagline with it. But to answer your question, I was giving all of this background information because at this point in my life where you know have a dad, have a husband, family, kids, um like the the amount of priorities as we've talked about like can stack up and the suffering that you can go through really naturally within that I was like I'm suffering enough um in certain areas. So I I really hadn't paid attention to it. I hadn't fasted super well on a media type level like I've done all the like church things abstained for meat and all of that but I'm just setting the stage that coming into it I was more distracted and uh yeah just didn't have that discipline coming in. And I and I think my brain was like wired to like receive like this the the reels and the shorts and all of that stuff. And even though like maybe those things were like Catholic or good things it was just like where I was it's just where I was at um but I noticed in the first couple of days it was actually like I struggled to I struggled to sleep I like it was just like like little headaches coming in before bed. Um yeah it was just a struggle like because I I I love to snack I'll eat a bag of popcorn almost every night before I go to bed like watching whatever show it is was like the habit um and feeling how hungry I was made it really hard to fall asleep. But I also felt like my brain chemistry like changing and almost it like withdrawal was like the feeling and then I and going through that I was like dang it it it just kind of woke me up in a way. I was like wow like that was painful in a way giving that up and I think that I would have told before having gone through that I would have told myself oh yeah I can do that whenever I want and I think that that can tell me like I there was a sense of pride there in it. But after a couple of days like going into a a prayer time um I just noticed an awareness to it like it wasn't necessarily any more prayer than what was already happening but like just being able to listen to the Lord and be with him in that space and I just became very grateful for the the fasting that I was invited into even though I really didn't want to do it.

New Year, Priorities, And Saying No

SPEAKER_01 28:03

You know? So you found it freeing already? Yeah I mean we're still pretty early in um but so far I've yeah I have a couple questions for you up based on our phone call last night but before we do just while we're talking about like fasting aestheticism rule of life those things being freeing I just wanted to share like two vignettes that that came to mind. One one is from Father Jacques Philippe and I think we've talked about it on here but I just it's just such a powerful reminder. He's talking about interior freedom and he says we think being able to do anything we want is like what freedom is like that's kind of an American idea of freedom. And he's like that's that's far from freedom. Let me give you a story. He's like I come here to America I forgot my pajamas and I go to the big store and lots of things I could buy in this big store I go back to the pajama section of the big store and I have Superman pajamas I have pink pajamas I have sports character pajamas. And he starts like laughing in this really endearing French laugh. He's like it's very complex to get some pajamas so I was overwhelmed by the options of pajamas here. And so similar like you talk about like all the potential things we could do, all the things we could say no to we don't have like it's really freeing to restrict things with a rule or with fasting of just like hey I've got a no in this category or not yet or not until this is done or this thing first, right? Like those are really helpful because they just give you freedom. So like for me right now I've realized like I need to be at daily mass in the morning like I need to go there. Like there's enough distractions in my life around the home of cleaning it or around starting work early because I you know I get my identity from performing sometimes that like if I just get my feet moved to the sanctuary at Christ the King and receive mass and pray, it's just way better for me to have a life with Christ. So by me saying that like I don't have an option when it nears you know 645 like my feet if I'm gonna be at mass need to get to the car to go to masses like that's just and so it's really freeing because like I don't have to overthink, I have to be worried about these other things I'm behind on. I don't have to think should I clean this or clean that just like I it's I'm going I'm going to mass. And so it's like a daily thing. Now I have to in my own rule write what Saturday look should look like and what Sunday should look like because those schedules are different.

SPEAKER_00 30:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:33

And it's important to do it. But anyway I just want to say like that little simple thing. But then I want to brag on a friend many of you probably know him uh Brandon Hale. I don't know if if anyone's ever been with him nearing the nine o'clock hour 9 p.m he will just like be very convicted about saying goodbye. He's going he's going home and so he goes to bed at a certain time because he wakes up at a certain time and he's found that that's when he can pray and then write and so he never would have written that wonderful book series for kids like a little shout out what's the name of that you know the name of it'll come to me here in a second. We'll maybe throw it in the show notes.

SPEAKER_00 31:10

Maybe it'll come back in a little bit I wonder how often the stuff we say goes in the show notes.

SPEAKER_01 31:14

Yeah I don't know if it does or not. Um but anyway look up Brandon Hale on on Google and you'll find his books. Um but he's just really disciplined about it like to the point of like he'll even like let his wife stay for game night on something and he's gonna go home and go to bed. And like for him it's probably freeing like that's the way he's able to give this little gift of these his time in prayer and these books he's written.

SPEAKER_02 31:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:34

And so like while for some of it's like oh wow you're missing the whatever you know it's really kind of beautiful that he's had a little resolution that and I and I don't think he does I don't think he does that out of punishing himself at night. You know, I think like the Lord's given enough freedom that he just knows like this is good for me. Right. And I think that's super beautiful.

Asceticism And Rethinking Fasting

SPEAKER_00 31:52

Another one of those things that played into like factored into our decision to like want wanting to talk about this there's um on the Halo app there's like millions of awesome Catholic things that you can do. But right now they're doing this Daniel series that you can go through that's like promoting the Daniel fast um which is super intense like it's just like a no meat type thing um probably no sugar too but anyway uh but basically to say it differently they've got only vegetables and legumes I think is the Daniel Fast. There you go. Um thank you um uh but so they're doing it and they uh they have all these great people they have Jeff Cavins Chris Pratt is reading the narrating the Bible parts of it um heather Heather Kim did one I did one with Heather Kim this morning um did Alexio Davina big shout out to that go look at that but some of the key nuggets that we've pulled out of that um when it comes to our attitudes towards fasting one of the things that I think James and I have harped on before especially James he's really good about it is talking about like this majoring in the minors type of thing and where we're not making what is our top priority our top priority. And we've even said like our top priorities because like it's really easy to like bunch in the big three, right? And you put them in the put them in order my relationship with God as a beloved son, my relationship with my wife as a husband and my relationship with my children as a father like bada bada bang those are the those are the three and Jeff Cavin's doubled down on this and I just thought it was absolutely beautiful in this thing he talks about and he was like you can if you have priorities you don't have a priority which I was really I was really struck by because and then he kept going he's like my wife and my kids are not my priority they're important to me but they're not my priority um and some might think of this as like semantics but I think it's important um and he's like my priority is to like do the will of the Lord in my life um do what he asks me to do and have a real relationship with him.

SPEAKER_01 34:16

Like that's the first thing and it that is it you know yeah and some I I like that you're challenging semantics like obviously to I mean if you follow it rationally like if you are a father and husband like part of the way Jesus is going to want you to live out your holiness is doing that really well. But if we put the cart before the horse we could be completely spiritually dry and actually end up not doing that well. Yeah um but Jesus is pretty clear in scripture too like when he rebuked when he talks to Martha and Mary and he's rebuking Martha he says Mary has chosen unum necessarium like the one thing necessary and um I think that's really helpful like a really helpful reminder as we begin the new year is like Jesus said I am the one thing necessary Jesus said I am the way the truth the life so and Jeff Cavens is saying one priority. I mean he's just making that clear right and so like as we're writing a rule it's like all right what do I need to say no to or where do I need to make where do I need to make the center space for Christ yeah and like that's the priority and one thing you said on the phone like for me for some of us sometimes like if I'm honest like depending on the season like that's kind of scary to sort of clear the deck and be like hey I can't afford to like give the space that it seems like I'm supposed to give to the Lord Mother Teresa said if you can't afford an hour gift too you know and many saints and great people have said that. I was gonna ask you you said something about your ascetic practices I asked like if you'd notice God doing anything new in your life or notice anything different and I think you said like um I think you said all the things you'd been wanting to do that were like good and holy started to become easier. Yeah.

Exodus 90: Stripping Distractions

SPEAKER_00 36:10

You want to talk about that a little bit yeah I you know there's it's really easy to know what you could or should or what would be good for you to do. You know? Like when I like I'll give a I'll give an example like um a couple of weeks ago I come home from uh religious education I get home around like seven or eight o'clock after that and Peter's like dad can we can we wrestle and it's a long day um me in there and I told him at the time I was like dude I'm I'm too tired and I knew I should have I knew I should have said yeah I want to go and wrestle with you and spend this time but I kind of just wanted to sit and disassociate for a minute and you know see what's happening scroll basically is what I was aiming to do as I was transitioning into into the home life and and so I I I remember that. Um and then Vignet parlay that with Wednesday night this week I and I got home and instead of instead of him even needing to ask me I just can't like I was excited to do that before I came in. And it was something that I w love and want to do and it was easier um to do something like that. Or sounds like grace. Yeah yeah 100% grace not not for me at all or you know another another example of that is uh yeah diving into this uh idea of a nightly exam and is something that I've done on and off throughout my entire Catholic life and there are stretches where I where it goes really well and there are stretches where I you you look at my evening and be like where's where's prayer at all you know in that outside of um a few things but like I don't know I desire it more um and it's definite like and definitely like the re the reality of like oh well I can't can't watch an episode of the office tonight or can't uh can't play can't play my video game with um might as well what else can I do? You know I I I guess I can pray but like it's just easier and and you're more aware to it and like uh it's sweeter um in a way and like that isn't has nothing to do with me and everything to do with what the Lord is doing in my heart as a result of the fast. And I I don't think I I've done like I've done these type of fasts before and I don't think I've gotten I don't think I've had like this is a new grace. Yeah I love that for me where things are easier. I think I think before I complained a lot and uh and you know would probably take shortcuts and do different things and but yeah this one has been particularly grace filled early but another thing that I wanted to bring up that Heather Kim talked about today um in the Daniel thing is like the point eventually we move to a place when we fast and when we're fasting for the right reasons. Because if we're just fasting to lose weight to do better at work or whatever thing if like if that's kind of like the the root like desire for it all it's not fasting. It's just dieting and being weird I guess. But like she mentioned that like the whole point is eventually I'm gonna stop thinking about how how hungry I am and start realizing that the whole point of the fast isn't what I'm giving up. It's like what I'm turning to. Yeah um who I'm turning to and what I'm and who who I'm turning to you know and and my brain in that time like I was talking about how like this like dopamine reset that my brain was probably going through it became really obvious how much I needed him. Because like I was in distress and paint like because I'd removed all of these crutches or numbing agents that we've talked about before.

Early Fruits: Ease, Grace, And Prayer

SPEAKER_01 40:48

Um so yeah it's transformative really is yeah it's interesting like one thing I've noticed in fasting and before but especially this this go is like two two things. One is just like listening to the Lord like ability to hear him like people some of my favorite people that have like encouraged fasting in my life like that's been their main theme like if you feel as if you need you need some more wisdom from the Lord like you need to know the Lord better you need to hear something from the Lord fasting might be the best thing to do you know wisdom yeah you know um and I really love that. And so for me like it's it's not anything like practical or worldly that the Lord's given me necessarily right um but it's just there is a time after mass like the fact of fasting from working as much and fasting from eating has reformed my heart a little bit. Like I'm sitting there after mass and I'm reflecting with gratitude on a phone call or a texting interaction that was very loving and spiritual with a former client happened to text him just what reaching out to him just like thinking about him and I asked him for a prayer request and I hope you're well like it's been a while and he told me that this was the anniversary his son died from a drug overdose. Wow and so like I was just like praising the Lord for that day like wow like I don't know I don't know why I thought to text him fully there's something I was working on that prompted it. Yeah in the spirit and tone of tenor was in a way that he could tell me like I'm doing good but today's real rough and then what the next thought in my heart was like just full graduate for that was like the Lord showing me where I've almost died spiritually and physically where I've been far from him where I've been in the same place my friend was and how he's loved me amidst it. And so like that grace wasn't earned right like I didn't earn that grace and like I could just see like okay because I've given the Lord more space he was able to use me yesterday in a way that I didn't even mean to and what he gave me back as a reminder is like he showed me the ways that he's loved me in my suffering or the ways that he's given to me. And I was just like holy cow like overwhelmed by the goodness of God. Right. And so if we live normal life on the current that we and our culture and our egos, our pride, our selfishness would lead us, then we're not like hanging on Jesus's every word. We're like hanging on the real we're hanging on the next snack we're hanging on the next badge of honor I'm gonna get or whatever the thing is, right? And like this at least gives us a little more time to hang on Jesus every word and like receive his daily bread. Mm-hmm. And uh man like that's been so good to be able to hear him.

SPEAKER_00 43:53

Yeah. But yeah we get um Spiritually dumb. Or at the very least, spiritually very imperceptive.

SPEAKER_02 44:06

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 44:08

Uh and that happened. That same thing happened in the early church. That's why the desert fathers like had to go and live in a stinking cave in order to grow in their holiness with the Lord. Like that's like it isn't like it isn't this isn't meant to like villainize like phones or food or any of the like those are just tend to be the simple things that are that are medicating us.

SPEAKER_01 44:36

Most sin is the misuse of a good thing.

One Priority: Ordering Everything To Jesus

SPEAKER_00 44:38

Right. And so but diving to the next level of that, like Daniel Um his fast that he did made him wise. Like the book talks about that. The Lord talks about that. And wise and perceptive in a in a more spiritual way. And I was just real, I just, like, and I've kind of been hitting ending around all of this, like there, I was like, even though I was like still being fed and like in love with the Lord and all of that, like, and you don't fast all the time, but I'm just noticing. I'm just noticing there's a stark difference, and like I'm not, I'm not saying like I'm all this super wise person or anything, but I'm just you just perceive more, and you're talking about it like the Lord's movements, like I had this amazing moment with your friend where you could like be with him and you had no idea what was going on, you know? And like there's just gonna be more moments where you can the soft promptings of the Holy Spirit that are that are there are more accessible, um, and will make you a better missionary. Absolutely. Um, so to like close, like, yeah, fasting is a great thing, Exodus is a great thing, like go watch them father Mike's mit Mike Schmidt's video on fasting if you want to get like more in the details because we're starting to run out of time. But the thing the last point that I wanted to bring up or talk about is like what is a I think I'm answering my own question, but like in the church there are seasons, right? There's liturgical seasons. Like we have we have Lent, we have Advent, um extraordinary time, Christmas time, and Christmas time is like feast season, right? Um, and Easter time. And uh and we're approaching Lent, which is obviously a time where fasting can be. I guess what I'm trying to drill down to is like fasting all the time, can't do it. Like, um, but fasting in time in tune really intentionally with where the Lord is at with us church, probably really great for us to start.

SPEAKER_01 46:56

Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Yeah, I'd just I'd I'd just make the challenge to just set some time aside with you and the Lord. Could be right after this podcast, could be at a lunch break, could be when you wake up before things start, before you go to bed to like set aside the distractions and like love Jesus and yourself enough to just ask him the question how should I rearrange? He'll tell you. Yeah. And and uh can't wait for the fruit you're gonna experience. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:36

Yeah. All right. This has been Red Dare Catholics. I'm Jace. I'm James. See you next time.