Red Dirt Catholics
Join Jayce, James and guests from "Red Dirt" Oklahoma as they discuss what evangelization and discipleship looks like in real life.
Red Dirt Catholics
Craving Catholicism
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In this episode, Jayce and James sit down to talk about people coming into the Church, suffering, disc golf, sports, community, friendship, Pokémon prayer, a desire for beauty and more. Casual.
They don’t ignore the hard parts. Alongside conversion stories, they wrestle with how pain can become the place where mercy breaks through and community becomes essential. If you’re praying for someone to return to faith, we offer grounded counsel: be bold, invite again, offer to go with them, stay patient, and let God do what only God can do.
Who is one person you could invite and walk with this week?
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Links and other stuff from the show:
Pastoral Letter, "On the Unity of the Body and Soul:" archokc.org/pastoral-letters
Red Dirt Catholics Email Address: reddirtcatholics@archokc.org
The Book "From Christendom to Apostolic Mission" (Digital and Print): Amazon
The Social Dilemma: https://www.netflix.com/title/81254224
Daily Examen Prayer: https://bit.ly/309As8z
Lectio Divina How-To: https://bit.ly/3fp8UTa
Disc Golf As Low-Barrier Friendship
SPEAKER_00So you're thinking about getting into disc golf finally?
SPEAKER_02I don't know if I'm thinking about getting into it, but you've made the That's what I heard. You've made the invite a couple times of like, hey, when you're ready to like slow down things.
SPEAKER_00A couple times would be putting it smallly, probably at least 50.
SPEAKER_02So I'm like the guy that would like to go golf golf. Like that sounds fun or whatever, but the reality is like, okay, there's a lot of things that I'd like to spend a half day on that probably make it there before golf does, you know? And uh so I had a friend, another friend explaining to me that he went like every like once a week every morning with another friend doing disc golf. And I was kind of surprised that he liked disc golf. Like he didn't fit the archetype, maybe. I don't know. Um he might have felt like more of a golf golf guy. Uh and uh the way he described it addressed that objection of like, hey, I don't I can get some good time with my buddy, and I'm out in God's creation, and I'm doing something fun that engages me. But it's not like I have to commit to a hobby like golf. You know, and I was just like, oh, interesting. Maybe there's maybe there's something for that for James to just go hang. $30 will get you into a super enjoyable round. What uh how long does it take to have a round of disc off?
SPEAKER_00Uh if you're by yourself, like hour 15 at most courses 18. Oh wow. So that's two of us a couple hours? For for for two of us, it would be hour and a half. Frankly, it depends on how bad you are.
SPEAKER_02Um Yeah, so maybe two for me because longer.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, two would be like it and it it depends on the course. Like there's some longer courses that it would take longer. Um, but like Delease or like Will Rogers, I can do 18 in less than an hour, like 45, 50 minutes. Um DeleC can be, I've done it at around an hour before too. So I mean, it's nice, it gets you out there, you're in nature, you know, it's quiet.
SPEAKER_02How many different discs does a guy need? Obviously, if I go with you, you just can share. No, there's that.
SPEAKER_00I would I would easily be able to share. I could give you, I could give you a whole other backpack um uh full of discs.
Kids Sports And Coaching Joy
SPEAKER_00But I mean, driver, putter, mid-range. Three. Three? Yeah, would be would be plenty. Um That's another nice thing.
SPEAKER_02You can just you can't really keep your golf bag in your car the whole time, but you can have your disc golf bags.
SPEAKER_00I have my discs with me under the seats. High percentage of the time. It's actually in my garage right now because I don't know how that happened. But um but yeah, so that's awesome. Um put it on the calendar. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02We'll make it happen.
SPEAKER_00You talk about it. Yes, we did it. We did it. Uh how's uh young Grayson sports career going? Well, now it's all three of them. It's pretty fun. All three. Yeah. Not on the same team, though.
SPEAKER_02Uh we actually get to put two of them on a team from time to time. Like cool. You know, obviously one of them's playing up or down in theory. You just can't you can play up, but you can't play down. And so like to a certain example. So like Theo, for example, he's on a baseball team, coach pitch, and he's six, and so he's already playing up. And so we in theory like pulled him back down to a six U T ball team to play with his brother, who's four. And there's like this group, a couple some of us who go to Chrysler King, some of us who go to St. Monica's, and so we have it's really fun. There's like, I don't know, probably seven families, eleven kids. Um, and we're with ages four to six. Um, and so it's we're all playing six you, um, but it's really fun. I forgot. Sometimes I enjoy pre-K and kindergarten more than the others. And what I mean by that is it's just a different challenge. Like Maria Montessori would say the kindergarten, like that age group is like the absorbent mind, right? And so when you're coaching sports to like third and fourth graders or eight, nine, 10-year-olds, you've got enough age on you to resist or to know. Like, I know, I know. But at like four and five, for the most part, you just want to download everything the coach is saying, especially if there's like a decent enough culture with the kids. I mean, they're they're crazy and they want to goof around and all that, but there's honestly less of it. And like if they're more like if you've got them engaged and you're high energy and you've got fun stuff, they're learning so much and repeating it back to you, yeah, is super fun. And so we've kind of mixed a nice little blend in that kindergarten team. And they're all Catholics, so we're like we'll end practice in like a song or prayer, and uh, we'll have little virtue moments throughout sprinkled in here and there. And uh for the most part, we're just learning baseball, but but we have that just a bunch of Catholic parents. Yeah, it's really fun.
SPEAKER_00Super internet that sounds like an awesome way to spend several evenings.
SPEAKER_02Um we do it Saturday morning at nine is when our practice
Pokemon Cards And Family Moments
SPEAKER_02is, and that's really restful too. Yeah, it's kind of easy. It's not too late, it's not too early where you're rushing them, but there's really not enough time to do anything other than like get fed and go to the car, and it's a little later than school drop-off normal time normal patterns. Yeah, just relax. Yeah, you're just a little shortly after the morning sunrise, you're out there playing some baseball in a neighborhood park. It's awesome.
SPEAKER_00That's awesome. For for Peter and I, uh I can't remember if we if we if we would have been talking about this at all. We've been a little spotty recording recently, but hopefully we we get back into it in a little bit better rhythm. But around Christmas time, Peter got really into Pokemon cards. Um, I made him a Pokedex, and so we've been I think you did mention that on here. Going, yeah, we've been going into card shops, buying 10 cent cards and trying to fill that out. And we completed that, so we're kind of like leveling up and moving into like different things. So he wants to collect all of a particular Pokemon's card now and going to shows. But him and I have just like really bonded over this, like watching the show together, looking for cards, like he's helping me sort through cards to sell on a store. Like it's just like a whole thing that we're going through. But the other day, the really exciting thing is like sometimes when you pull a card out of a pack, it could be worth a lot of money, like just like a baseball card or whatever. And the other day he pulled a $200 card out of a pack, which was insane, and we lost our minds. Um it was super cool. We're about to send it off for grading. Um, but we're enjoying that. Jude is seven, just turned seven months old, and I walked out. He's starting to crawl around. I walked out and he'd crawled out of his little pen because we left the door open on purpose so that he'd want to start crawling around. But he'd like crawled up to some box and like pulled himself up on the box, and we were like, oh man, we're in trouble. Like it's time to child proof. Um, but it's been it's been super awesome.
The Surge In OCIA Conversions
SPEAKER_00The other thing that's been really cool. So this is post-Easter, like I was just reading an article in the Sooner Catholic. Um they called it Sacred Surge, which is a really cool, which is a really cool name for it. But it was talking about, you know, how many, how much of an increase in OCIA and new Catholics coming to the church that we had this year. And all year, because this because we had the most, we we ended up with 54. At times we thought we might have more at the cathedral, but it just kind of like the way that the class tends to go. Some people decide they need to wait, some people go to a different church, it just depends. Um but it's been really cool getting to walk with all of them and see see the demographic. But all year, Monsignor's like, why? Why are we almost double what we've ever had at the end of the day? You called Monsignor. I was like, who is he talking about?
SPEAKER_02In my mind, Father Rick's still Father Rick. And it was Monsignor recently. I need to work on that once.
SPEAKER_00Oh, I still I still say father all the time. We all do. Um uh and he would ask me what what's happening? I was like, dude, I I wish I could tell you. Uh I didn't do anything particularly special. Like, I think our classes are good, but um so it's been a really cool thing. What's in the air?
SPEAKER_02Like it seems like I heard I had a friend explain to me that he just senses there's a spirit, like the reality across the country is there's a spirit of conversion.
SPEAKER_00It's really across the world, right? Like we're hearing about we're hearing about France is having an increased number, London. Um, you know, I think the like I mean Africa's been kicking butt as far as conversions for a decade, and they're not they're not getting the it's not, it just doesn't grab the headlines quite as much. Um I interviewed the vast majority of the one. Like, I didn't get to every single person, but I when I interviewed them, I asked them like, what was and it really wasn't there wasn't this like uniform thing. Like some people have been like postulating, like, oh, it's the Pope Leo effect, uh, uh American Pope that's put a lot of great publicity on the on the Catholic Church. Some people have said here in Oklahoma City, we have the president of the USCCB. Like that that could be uh with Archbishop Coakley, who's absolutely awesome. And uh people have postulated that that could mean something, at least for the cathedral, especially, because then you get to be brought into the church by the president of the USCB. Um, but no one really mentioned that and in in particular either whenever I was discussing it with all of them. The thing that we've seen, and that I've seen, and I was I was uh it wasn't debating, but we were discussing this. Uh one of my f if you haven't, one of my favorite priests to follow on Facebook is Father James Goens. It's a riot. Like it's it's amazing. He's got really, really heartwarming stuff, but also like really thought-provoking uh things and humorous and just a great follow. So I love following him, and he he wanted to discuss it because his he had a fear, like we have all this positivity surrounding like, oh look, the churches we're bouncing back. Things aren't things are better now. You know, we're we're winning, we're winning for the first time, and he wanted to have this moment where we kind of pumped the brakes on it and like took a step back and like look like look, the baptism rates are still pretty bad, the the marriage rates are still pretty bad. So, like, what do we do? Um and what I heard the most out of my people at the cathedral of why the cathedral, why Catholicism is they were tired of a service that was about them. And that uh a lot of that that like that's like an amalgamation of all of it, but a lot of them mentioned like, yeah, the music and the reverence and of the mass and all of that that we have at the cathedral. Like, I mean, Nolan's like the best of the best, right? So that's a really easy thing for us to to point out as why people want to join the church with him, but it still happened everywhere, even if they had a completely different set of music. Um but putting all of those things together, I had I had one guy who was like, Man, it was so refreshing to walk in and not feel like there was a used car salesman trying to get me to fill out a welcome form right away. And um and that all of the people are like, We're not we're not here for you, we're here for something more bigger. And I I thought that that was a really beautiful thing.
SPEAKER_02That's fascinating. I have a friend who's a part of a very large uh Protestant church in town here, and um he has a increasing desire for liturgical things. Uh like he prays Liturgy of the Hours um with his family, and um it's not gonna take very long. Yeah, has attended um like has asked to attend like Christmas vigil with us, and we we took him to Ash Wednesday mass, and I was asking him some of these questions, um similar, and he was like, Oh man, the Protestant world is craving liturgy, like is craving like history, is craving like what has the church always done, like once the whole thing is like they're craving Catholicism. And like a big phrase, you know, like changing phrase. It was like an and the same person like shared with another uh who asked, like, why are you when are you gonna become Catholic? Like had kind of heard some of these things or why aren't you Catholic? And he had a really authentic answer of like being discerning about timing and things. I agree. The name of this episode is Craving
Why People Crave Liturgy
SPEAKER_02Catholicism with a question.
SPEAKER_00That's what you're writing down right now. Awesome.
SPEAKER_02Cool, cool, cool, cool, cool. And it was interesting to kind of listen to him on that, but like I just share this because it's interesting. There's like the formal coming in conversion, and then there's this like this ongoing interest in Catholicism. So like separate circles that I'm a part of than that. I just hear a lot of people like quoting Catholic mystics, Catholic saints, Catholic teachings, like at a higher level. And I've been noticing little patterns of that in little pockets, especially if people are following this spirit. They're very likely open to things that like great Catholics have said across the years, um, even if they're not Catholic yet. But like, so I've heard that. But what was interesting about this other man that's similar is he actually shared with me that a a Protestant spiritual director of his encouraged while he was taking on the kind of like a struggle of suffering in his life, encouraged him to try and spend some time with Mary. Wow. And to ask her to bring some of the virtues she has to him. And I just it's off brand. Yeah, it is off brand, but like my heart like grew big there, big there amidst that. Yeah, that's amazing. And like to ponder like, what role does Mary have in this? Was an interesting question. But then the other thing, different circle, and I don't know if you've encountered or not, but I had a different friend share, like, okay, the spirit of conversion is in the air, and also a high amount of suffering is present. And like he was pretty adam adamant that they're related. Yeah. You know, and I don't know, I just receive that with like some gratitude and openness. Cause it's interesting, I don't know if you experienced it, but like in Catholic circles and non-Catholic circles I'm in, I'd the same time that I'm experiencing the faith increase in people, I am seeing a lot of suffering. And I don't think it's disconnected from your prior comment earlier either. But I'm curious what your thoughts are.
SPEAKER_00Which comment?
SPEAKER_02Uh I'm not here for me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah, I I think those are definitely those are definitely tied. Um I've cried in my office with people in our OCIA class plenty throughout this year. So the idea of suffering being present in that. Do you remember we were I think we were with Jim one time and we we I think we might have we might have done a pod about this, I don't remember. But what's coming up in my brain when you were when you're bringing up suffering like that um was this idea of when you pr want someone to be more deeply converted but they're uh comfortable, right? Maybe that maybe they're they're maybe they're really maybe they're they're a doctor and really well set financially or really well set. They're just are just in a really in a really great spot where it it becomes more and more difficult. Like this is what I kind of think that Jesus was talking about when he talked about a rich man not being able to get through the needle. Um that his idea was I'm just gonna pray for their suffering to be upped a little bit because sometimes I think that's what's you know necessary. And that's like a counterintuitive.
SPEAKER_02He was praying they could see their own misery.
SPEAKER_00That's right. That's right. That was the word that they could see their own misery.
SPEAKER_02To see their own misery. Which is a not unrelated to the word mercy. Right. Misericordier, right? Um and so like it's interesting. Yeah, but they could see their own misery, like I don't know, like I ponder like even people going in a deeper conversion in this season that have were Catholic and are still Catholic, but maybe are embracing the fullness of things in their own heart. That essential ingredient sometimes is to see I'm hurting here, I'm in need.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I'm in need. That's a really good one too. I think that that's happening a lot. Uh but it's like there's there's a different kind, because like for forever, you know, I'm just I'm just kind of like going back on my young adult roots with this here. Like you talk about the studies and all the things, and they all know they're lonely. They all know that they desire community. Like that's the marching cry. But so often, maybe we hit a little bit on it when we talked with Michael Scaperlanda about like the the the fake dopamine that we're getting out of social media. Chris, you mean? Yeah. Chris, sorry. The the like a thin habit of something instead of a thick habit. And and and instead of the real the real stuff. Uh but we're seeing this like realizing we need other people.
SPEAKER_01Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00Um, like the other day, we were supposed to have our big celebration potluck for the end of the year for all our OCI people. Everybody came in, we're all super happy. This is awesome. It was on Tuesday, supposed to be on Tuesday,
Suffering And The Path To Mercy
SPEAKER_00and they were saying how bad it was supposed to be, and they're saying up to softball size hail, and I spent the entire day wringing my hands, like, oh my gosh, I don't want to cancel this. These are I want to hang out with my friends and hear about all their conversion stories and like what happened to them at the vigil. And um, and eventually I just had to cancel it because the guy was like, dude, my finger's hovering over this Chick-fil-A order, you need a finger call, you know. Um uh and it was just really sad. Like, we're gonna do it on Tuesday, but like this whole group has a really big desire to be together, and we're trying to like capitalize on that in a few different ways at the cathedral specifically, but I would I would wager that it's that way across the board. Um, if the class is set up in a way where they get to know each other. Um uh and you just really quickly figure out your need for others, you need to be understood by others, and it's just such a friendship, the human friendship is such a uh practice ground for friendship with the Lord. Um and so I think that the way that we have OCIA set up with being every week and all of that is really conducive to that if you do the if you do it well. Um But I think people are becoming more aware of their own suffering, just like you were talking about, like that became the harder things get, you know, the stats get worse, you know, all of it become everything becomes more and all of that.
SPEAKER_02I also think that in addition to maybe someone being aware of their misery and finding conversion. Um I actually think the suffering church like the different people. So like I'll just cite a vignette have a friend going through great suffering in their family life, outside of their control, lots of loss around with their kids and that's not an isolated story, but like many people find themselves in the church fully converted, fully aware, and now they're helpless and they're suffering through something where like all they can do is rely on the Lord and the people around them.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And so they're they're experiencing an interior conversion, but I think like the church militant is like that suffering is actually connected to the spirit of conversion of the people coming in. Like I really think it is. Like if you're listening and you're like, hey, all this conversion stuff, I don't know. Uh this is heavy on my heart right now, and I'm trudging through this. Yeah, I can I can list like six examples of that. Like that reality is a participation in the mass, is a participation in Christ's sacrifice, and is a participation in the conversion and the healing and the growth of the church. That's so awesome. Like so, would I uh just a word of encouragement like if you ex are experiencing a great suffering in your life right now, the Lord may not let you see. At this moment, all the things it's for. Um, and chiefly it's for him to find you and pursue you and let you know how he sees you all the time. But also like just accepting, receiving, and working in that, fully aware of who he is and fully aware of who you are. He's going to perform lots of little miracles through through that those things you're meriting. You know what I mean? Like I don't like that suffering is not purposeless. It's very good for you, but also it's so good for a lot of people around you and even people you might only meet in heaven. And I really I don't know, I've just been close enough to some suffering folks that I think that's real. Like I know that's real.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. All of that is so beautiful. And tying the mass into it, especially. Because like that's what it's Divine Mercy Sunday. Right. Just happened. Yeah, just happened. Um you know, going through the treatment Easter and all of that. So there's just so much happening in that in the life of somebody who's decided to come to OCAA. Um and like culturally, counterculturally, um, there's just a lot of accelerance and decelerance and all around in that space, but like just the Holy Spirit has the power to cut through all of that, and we have to just believe that. Um I absolutely I absolutely love that. I'm trying to think of a way to share this story. Um there's just I've just seen so many families out of the ones that have come through where there's all of those things. Hurt, suffering, obstacles being thrown in their ray throughout the year, things easily disturbing peace. Like when we did our retreat for everybody in OCA, we had a little section on like what spiritual attack looks like because they're gonna experience some sooner rather than later, likely. Like it was like two weeks before the vigil when we did that. Um and we just saw that very, very consistently, but the Lord just like purifies that so quickly. And like if we're if we respond to
Encouragement For Those In Pain
SPEAKER_00some of those wounded and suffering type places and give it to the Lord and give it to our communities within the church, it just changes everything.
SPEAKER_02Question for you You're someone who's close to the scene of people going through this if you're speaking to someone else who maybe has a family member that's they're hoping would grow in the faith or they're hoping would convert or is in the conversion process and we're seeing obstacles and stuff, what words do you have for that family member or person close to another that's they're wanting to experience conversion or is actively experiencing conversion and its obstacles?
SPEAKER_00So speaking to the person who's wanting another who's accompanying.
SPEAKER_02Who's like accompanying or praying for or hoping for, and is like adjacent to what's happening. Messy and beautiful, usually, conversion and real. Um but really can't directly do anything about it, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Like what what words do you have for that that person?
SPEAKER_00I mean, so that's that's so many people's position right now, right? Of like a son or a daughter who's left the faith, or husband or wife, or all of that. Like it's just a very common thing. Uh kind of just like the sadness of that, like made me tear up a little bit just thinking about it just now. Um the word that came into my mind was boldness. Um and the reason why I think that is the answer like uh it's it's what we talk about all the time when we talk about the evangelization thing. The answer is always no unless you ask, you know? Um I've watched a bunch of people like like I I I think I've talked about this guy and um a guy that I met at Coffee and Donuts talked about being like bragged me about being uh agnostic and he just likes Nolan's music and I, you know, and met him within my first couple of weeks of the cathedral, and then right before OCIA started, I I saw him at Coffee and Donuts every week, and we went disc golfing together one time, and then after that I was like, dude, just come to class. Like come to OCIA. Like, are you gonna like you're not gonna have anything to lose, you're here anyway. Like see what happens to you. Was like I said it just like that, maybe even more casually than that. But just kind of like it's kind of a bold like, what do you got to lose? Um and he came. And now he's super all in. Yeah, you know, he's yeah, he's Catholic now. Um and like I don't take credit for that, but uh What was the risk, right?
SPEAKER_02There's none. I mean, functionally. There's none. He's there kind of happily choosing to be agnostic. And so if he if that pushed him away.
SPEAKER_00Uh what we're seeing, what we're seeing is the in OCI is the bearing out of everything that we've talked about in all of our podcasts as far as evangelization goes. You know who who the people who tend to like the most that are in OCI are the people who know three or four other people who are Catholic, who have invited them, who said that they would go with them to that class every single week. That's cool. That's that's what we're building. We're just invite it's just an invitation, and I'll go with you, and it's not something you have to do on your own. And like come and see. Because the product, like knowing the church and the depth and the beauty of the faith and everything that we do, but you can't even you can't even scratch the surface in OCIA. Like someone who graduates from OCIA if it's a great, if it's a great class, like knows more than probably your average Catholic sitting in the pew.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But I don't think that that's the main product. It might help some people get through a few of their
Helping Someone Convert With Boldness
SPEAKER_00like major hurdles coming into the church, but I think the main product of getting them together every single week is to start mixing them up and blending cultures and putting them in the community. Yeah, that's cool. And so that's what I'm most proud of of what the team, the OCIA team did this year. Like there is a party. I didn't even get to go because it was on Easter proper. I had I was out with family stuff, but it was hosted by one of our OCIA sponsors' homes. Uh it started at noon, and there were people there, a decent amount of people there from noon all the way until 8 p.m. Wow. What does that tell you?
SPEAKER_02They were home, dude. Home. That's cool. I like what you say about being bold. Um you just remind me of like a simple thing that I think is totally attainable for a lot of us. If we're willing to commit, we have to also have the sacrifice that's gonna come next. You know, like we have to we have to lean in. And I think that's what we're fearful of sometimes, to be honest. Like we're fearful of sacrifice of giving, of not having my own agency in time, how I like it. But like Joe Rita was sharing something he did for Lint, which I thought was super cool. Like, I think he's he's from California and there's some monastery near there, and they do this special thing for Lint where they kind of spoon feed the Lint to you. I forget what program it's called. It feels a little bit like Exodus 90, but like a little more chill, maybe. Okay. Um and uh so he just posted on Instagram or Facebook or something like, hey, this has given me a lot of fruit the past few Lents. Just gonna throw it out there. If anyone wants to do it with me, message me and let's hop in. And he had like a former missionary that he was friends with in the missionary life share that he really needed something like this. He had a friend from his, like three friends from his Catholic high school that weren't Catholic anymore. Dang. That responded. I mean, like one of them was like, Hey, man, I needed this. I'm ready to try this. I just got from back from a messy breakup and I've been thinking about coming back to the church, and like this feels like just the right thing. So like Joe's boldness, like he didn't even know who was gonna get the net. You know what I mean? Yeah, but he just cast it out there and he was willing to walk with whoever random wanted to join him for this. Yeah. And the Lord just did these things. And so what I saw in Joe's life, Joe shared more of the story, but like the missionary friend also just got off a messy breakup and was fully Catholic and super well formed. And so like those two started connecting and talking about stuff and working through it outside of it. But he had everyone share a little video. And so, anyway, what happened is like the principle I saw is Joe was bold and did his part. Yeah. And he knew Jesus would do his part and let Jesus do his part. Yeah. Like Joe's had a part in his light working life with his young family that like he doesn't have a lot of bandwidth outside of certain hours to do stuff, but he gave the bandwidth he had. And like the Lord did the rest. Yeah. So he gave that full sacrifice he had, like the woman with the one coin or whatever, or like the the multiplication of the fish and the loaves, like gave what we had, he multiplies. And I thought that was really beautiful. The other thing in my mind is you were been talking. We've been listening to Halo 2 a little bit. There's like, if you've got kids, like this Saints Alive stories.
SPEAKER_00So good.
SPEAKER_02They're really good. Like my kids are like telling kids at school about them. And like the teacher's asking us, a non-Catholic teacher actually is asking us, like, hey, where are these Saint stories coming from? Like, I'd love to download them and listen. They're listening to Saint Monica. And the thing I treasured from that one is like these things that we hear about St. Augustine. Like, our hearts are restless till they rest in thee. That was from Saint Monica.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Like that was from his mom in a place where he he was caught. He and his dad both caught in the messiness of life, sins of the flesh, addiction, pride, whatever. She was doing her part and being bold with them, but she was also so patient. So patient and steadfast. That was gonna be the second point that I had. Letting God do his thing, right? Like, okay, I'm gonna do my part, I'm gonna let God do his part, and I'm gonna be patient and steadfast. I think she had a little phrase I heard this separately, not in the kids' story, of like, hey, trust God in everything and clean house was her thing. And so it was like this, which is interesting thought. But so she was patient and she was bold with them, but then what she was vigilant in was what's happening here in her own heart, right? So she was like, so what she couldn't do with them or for them, she was so reliant on God to do him to do it, and so aware of her own failings to keep growing in holiness, if that makes sense. Like it was like this kind of three-legged stool going on there. And uh, if you drop one of them, it wouldn't work well.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Like if not being authentic with other people or bold or honest or loving, right? Drop that, doesn't work well. You you're not aware of yourself, doesn't work well. You're not trusting and aware of who God really is and actively pursuing that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And so I don't know. She modeled that really well, I feel like. Um, especially if it's like a family thing or a close relationship.
SPEAKER_00I mean, I could do a whole podcast about the fruit that you can find in in the Halo app and everything. Um yeah, there's just so much good and really good formation there. Uh it's been transformational. Not a not a Sunday goes by the cathedral that somebody who I don't even know taps me on the shoulder and says, Hey, thanks for bringing Hallow. You know, it's it's a big deal. Um The Lord is so good and he's so patient, and we have to be the same.
SPEAKER_01Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00Uh, in all of those spots. And it's just so hard because sometimes the person who's resisting in some of that and that you're trying to accompany can be the worst, you know, and be really hard and be really um uninterested in it. Like every OCIA class has people who are kind of a little bit disruptive. Um uh but you just have to trust the Holy Spirit and like continue to walk with these people and like be on the cross for them and accept whatever's whatever comes that way as far as suffering that you have to burden because of that accompaniment. But yeah, I think patience is probably the hardest one. I think I think that all of us who really love these people that we're accompanying, we've invited them once, and it hurts so much when they said no that we haven't done it again. And I think we should do it again and again, but always from a place of high trust. Um and not from a place of well you're you're not this so and you should be, so be it. It should almost always come from a place of I need this
What God Thinks About Us
SPEAKER_00in my life, and because I need it so bad, I'm convinced that everyone else does, and so I do this because I love you, you know, like that's the difference.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. One thing I've been growing with could be summarized by a statement a friend shared with me. But I and I it just feels like appropriate to share it here. I wonder how it relates with your experiences, but it was a quote that C. S. Lewis responded to. The quote, I forget who the original quota was, but it said, The most important thing about a man is what he thinks about God and C. S. Lewis's quote was no response to it was no, actually, the most important thing about a man is what God thinks about him. And I think it's really important that we sit with those two statements for ourselves. Sure. But then if we're engaged with other people who are on this path of conversion, which newsflash is if we're human, we're on the path somewhere. Um is am I aware of what God of what I think about God? Am I aware and reminding myself of what God thinks about me? When I'm gauging this with this other people, am I attuned to perhaps what they think about God? Am I reminding myself what he thinks about them?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And like, man, if we can, I do not have like what's been clear of me over the past few few years is like, yeah, he's got me on the path of conversion too. And I do not yet have the father's eyes. You know, never will, but we'll grow into it. But man, I'm I'm aware that like I want to have them more often, you know. And uh there's those experiences in life that are like really hard. And those things that as people are going through conversion that are just it's metanoia. Like we're turning around, like this is a whole new way of living. Yeah. And so it's normal that it's gonna be different and that there's gonna be suffering from us and ask from us and all this. And I just I don't know, a really high level when someone said when a friend of mine shared that quote the other day, I was like, that's like a first things kind of quote. Like, that's a really deep, deep reminder of to
Adopt A Convert And Closing
SPEAKER_02live from the place of what God thinks about me and what God thinks about these people and like live in that truth.
SPEAKER_00So the challenge I'd say as we wrap up is if you weren't a part of a con of this massive wave of converts journey through OCIA, my challenge would be to go find one and enjoy the fire that you feel from them. But also like um the the scary stat with all of this is that one in three people who go through OCIA leave within two years.
SPEAKER_02Which we could change that the Lord could use us all to change that.
SPEAKER_00We didn't put those, we haven't put those stats in the uh in the uh in the in the giant one, but that's a real one.
SPEAKER_02And so go what's exciting about it though, and I know you have a challenge here, is like for this class, that stat's not measured yet. It's it's certainly not the people actively coming into the church.
SPEAKER_00So go go adopt a convert, is basically what I'm saying. It'll be just as good for you as it is for them. I love that. All right. This has been rendered Catholics. I'm Jace. And I'm James. We'll see you next time.