How Trauma Shapes a Man’s Life, Identity, Relationships, and Need for Validation | Ronald Zion on Alison Answers

Ronald Zion Roseboro shares how trauma, wrongful accusation, prison, and years of silence shaped his life and how he turned pain into purpose through healing, faith, and a shame-free path forward. You’ll hear why so many men stay trapped in silence, how sexual addiction often masks deeper wounds, and what it really takes to break free and rebuild.

Watch this if:
👉 You want to understand the hidden trauma behind addiction and shame
👉 You’ve struggled with silence, pain, or emotional suppression
👉 You care about men’s mental health, healing, and restoration
👉 You want a raw, honest conversation about purpose after suffering

You’ll walk away with:
✅ A deeper understanding of how childhood trauma affects adult behavior
✅ Insight into why men often hide pain instead of asking for help
✅ A clearer view of how sexual addiction can be rooted in unmet emotional needs
✅ A powerful reminder that healing begins when silence ends

Watch on YouTube [https://youtu.be/rWUrvGNYyEk] or listen on your favorite podcast platform! Check the links on my bio!

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⚠️ Crisis Resources:
Lager Counseling Services
Call: 516-221-2123
Text: (914) 363-0381
Wantagh: 3408 Park Ave. Wantagh, NY 11793

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Call or text 988 | Visit 988lifeline.org

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

I was convicted of five years and one month, which I spent in prison. I have never seen the inside of a prison. I don't even know what that's like other than television. So now I find myself fighting for my life.

SPEAKER_02 0:14

Ronald Zion Roseboro is the founder and owner of the Shame Free Life Coaching and Consulting Company. Ronald helps others rebuild their lives and confidently step into their full potential and purpose. And this is his definition of success.

SPEAKER_01 0:31

We have been conditioned and programmed as men to be the savior of everything in the time of AI. When you can go online, you can go on IG. You don't know what's real or what's fake. I found myself being bullying, I found myself uh being molested, that we oftentimes don't talk about as men. But my question, Alison, how can we man up if we don't speak up? I'm here to help you walk out your purpose. But what I have found out is this is that.

SPEAKER_02 1:06

Hey guys, how are you today? It is Alison from Allison Answers and Lager Counseling Services. My next guest is Ronald Zion. Ronald Zion Roseboro is the founder and owner of the Shame Free Life Coaching and Consulting Company, which provides expert shame-based trauma-informed coaching services. He has a Bachelor of Arts in Christian Ministry from Lee University and a Master's in Human Services Counseling, Crisis Response and Trauma from Liberty University. He's a certified trauma-informed care coach and member of the AACC, American Association of Christian Counselors. Ronald has also achieved certifications in sexual addiction, sexual addiction recovery coaching, compulsive and addictive sexual behavior, and a professional life coaching. He is an acclaimed author of nine books with three bestsellers: The Brick Method, Women If You Only Knew, and Is There a Samson in You. Ronald is a dedicated, is dedicated to help men find healing, hope, and restoration. Having personally experienced chronic trauma and complicated grief, he understands the emotional paralysis that often accompanies trauma. He believes that while we may not be responsible for the injuries that we do sustain, we're responsible for our own healing. Ronald helps others rebuild their lives and confidently step into their full potential and purpose. And this is his definition of success. I look so forward to hearing what Ronald has to say and the wisdom that he will bring forth. So if you know anyone who has any of these addictions, someone who's been uh experienced trauma or any sexual addictions, or a spouse of or a child of someone who's suffering from addictions, I would strongly suggest that you like, share, post, and share this with people who it will be meaningful for. And without any further ado, here he is. Hey, hey guys, how are you today? It is Allison from Allison Answers and Lawyer Counseling Services. As I mentioned, I have Ronald Zion here today. And after speaking to him off camera, I'm even more excited about what you're about to experience because Ronald has an expertise in uh trauma coaching and in regard to a topic that I think you all know is very, very important to me is to stop sexual addiction and the misuse of children in regard to um sexual deviation, and also to highlight and showcase the men across the world and their ability to heal and live a shame-free life. And that is, as I mentioned, this is Ronald's wheelhouse. So I'm so excited and I'm so grateful to have you here, Ronald. So I just want to thank you.

SPEAKER_00 4:29

Thank you so much for having me, Alison. It's a pleasure.

SPEAKER_02 4:32

Yes. And uh just to pre-frame for everyone, I ask that anything that you hear here, if it triggers you or it, you know, understand that sometimes we when we listen to things that are really um that are actually happening on this earth, it it can really trigger us because it's hard to, we want to look away. But this is about healing and growth and helping people live a shame-free life. And if you know someone who is struggling with any of the things that Ronald talks about today, I ask that you would share it specifically with them. You know, I only ask for sharing things that are actually going to help someone change their life. So, not just for the sake of a share. So I would ask that you'd consider that as you're listening. So, Ronald, welcome. And I would love to hear how you became the man that you are currently and how you started to build out this shamefree life life coaching and consulting business, which is just so important. So, I'd love to hear how you how you decided to get here.

SPEAKER_01 5:51

Absolutely. So, uh, through the bumps, bruises, and lacerations of life, get into a place of healing and um healing even the more. Uh, so um this is uh more than just a coaching practice for me. It's it's a lifestyle, it is a a mandate, it's a mantle that was placed on me. And so um let's just hit the rewind button. So uh came from a uh a wonderful family, as far as my mother uh and my father at that time. My mother's a highly decorated educator of 25 years of service in the school system, uh, four degrees to her to her accreditation of science, of course. She mastered that chemistry, physically, physics, and so on and so forth. Now, my my father at that time, my biological father and my mother, they divorced when I was two years old, give or take, and she remarried at when I was age seven or so. And my stepfather at that time uh was very present financially, and uh I attribute a lot of his dissonance concerning our relationship and what I really needed the most as a young child, a young boy, to have a greater understanding of what is manhood. What is this thing? Uh he was not present, he was pretty much MIA. So he was physically in the home, but mentally checked out and emotionally checked out. So my mother was basically the driving force of the family. He was basically the the one who uh he was the underwriter of the home, so to speak. Well they both were, but he to a greater degree. So kind of fast forwarding, um uh I um came from a uh a wonderful neighborhood, but a lot of trauma. Um, a lot of trauma hidden behind doors of professionalism, a lot of trauma hidden behind uh doors of being single parents or et cetera. And and so this trauma would leak into of a community onto the school bus. And so there I found myself uh being a victim of being bullied. Um I found myself of being molested that we oftentimes don't talk about as men, because to talk about such a thing as this, you know, it's almost like, well, we need to take your man card because certain things are very taboo, we don't talk about, but it's the things that we don't talk about that begin to gain velocity in our lives and create a lot of venom that we spew into the lives of others, yes, constantly replaying and rehashing what happened, trying to prove our manhood and masculinity. And I'm gonna get to that place because I think it's a very good place to kind of just sit in. And so um going through that, uh still trying to find manhood, still on pursuit or on a quest to find manhood. Now I'm surrounded by my peers who have the solution to manhood, so they think, but they're just as blind as I am. So when the blind leaves the blind, they both fall in the ditch, right? Yes, so uh yeah. I mean, that's like you know, Stevie Wonder, he's leading Ray Charles. So that's a whole gumbo. Exactly, exactly, exactly. So so here I am, I'm trying to trying to find manhood, trying to embrace manhood, and I'm learning from other dysfunctional kids who don't know what manhood is. Yes, and so I'm learning about what manhood is in the locker room of the YMCA after a basketball game, as they begin to talk about how to objectify women. Yeah, and and so, and and I'm learning about it in schools, I'm learning about it um um on the baseball field, I'm learning about it um on the football field after practice. So this distorted view of manhood I had before me, but I'm looking at my grandmother, my great-grandmother, and my mother, who's the polar opposite of all of this entail that I'm getting about women.

SPEAKER_03 10:32

Yes, wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:37

And so um as as I begin to progress in life um and and and getting past the bully stage and having to fight for myself uh because I have no siblings. So now I'm learning to uh to master the art of suppression, suppressing how I feel, who can I voice to? My father is present, but yet still he's absent. There's certain things that I'm going through as a young boy, and I have questions about, and I have these hormones, and I'm hearing these conversations, you know, in the back of the school bus or in the locker room, and I just have a lot of questions, but I feel too embarrassed to bring it to you as my mother, as a woman.

SPEAKER_05 11:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 11:21

So I have to converse with my peers. And as I begin to uh uh to to to move into um the uh the the stages of middle school, high school, now uh the one who was rejected, now I seem to be uh accepted by so many people. Because I've always wanted to be accepted. Uh I just I just felt that I was not good enough. I I just well because I think that whenever you have a man in your life that can um that can confirm or better yet affirm who you truly are and reinforce that, now you have the autonomy to move into the world a different type of way. You have a different type of confidence that comes um and that shows up uh that is very authentic. There's nothing counterfeit about it because uh you are rooted in a firm foundation which I did not have from a male standpoint. Now, I do not fault my father at all. Love him because he showed me a lot of wonderful things, but you know, you can't expect for a general contractor to build a home if he doesn't have a blueprint. Don't get mad at the GC.

SPEAKER_05 12:43

Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:44

Uh so uh he can only do what he can do, and such was the case, you know, with my father. So as I began to to date and uh begin to collect phone numbers and we're comparing phone numbers as far as you know, guys, and we're going to a party or whatnot, uh, thinking that that is one of the um one of the signs that you are on the right path to manhood. Well, it wasn't until I met this woman, and um uh and it was something strange about that encounter that we had, and I just felt like I think you should just leave her alone. But I didn't. And so uh we began to date, and we dated for a year, and she uh was the daughter at that time, she was a daughter of a sergeant in internal affairs, um, who uh recently, well not recently, but he he got his uh gun taken away from him uh by commanded officers, actually internal affairs, because he he was guilty of um of uh domestic violence against a woman that was not his wife. So they immediately took his gun since he was convicted, and now he is uh placed on desk detail. And so after that, he was immediately fired because there were some indiscretions that took place on the job. So let's move forward to this relationship that I had with his daughter. So here we are in a full-fledged relationship, um, and and for for a year, give or take, and she accused me of assaulting her. So now you have a young boy who always felt rejected, you have a young boy who's looking for masculinity, now he's a man now, and now I am being I'm being accused of this crime that I am vigorously determined to show up and to prove my innocence. Uh, to no avail, um, I was convicted uh of five years and one month, which I spent in prison. So now we're gonna talk about um trauma, and and I think is a perfect uh segue to the question, the initial question that you asked me. So now I have someone who is now it's very interesting because I I would always get the same question every so often. Well, do you do you know why you know she would say this about you? I have no idea. You would have to ask her that question. But one thing, one thing I do know uh is that truth stands on its own merit. And uh when I was taken away, now let me preface this by saying now, before the initial accusation and incarceration, uh, I was a single parent. I was a single parent of my child, my daughter. Her mother and I, we signed a consensual uh agreement uh that was through the court system, because she had other children at that time, that I would assume the responsibility as being uh the parent in her life to basically take over in a financial sense. So myself, my mother, grandmother, we began to work in tandem as a team to make sure that the well-being and the welfare of this young girl is something um honorable and admirable. Um, because I just felt that uh I'm I'm I'm responsible for her being here. So I have to step up and take care of this young lady, this this child. So from age one to age 11, I was taking care of my daughter. Not only that, uh I worked at a very prestigious bank during that time, and I worked part-time uh at an insurance company. In addition to that, I was also in a college transfer program at one of the local community colleges getting ready to go into uh college. Um uh in addition to that, uh I became a caregiver of my grandmother, who unfortunately uh she succumbed to Alzheimer's and dementia. So I have a lot of dynamics going on, and now this happens in my life, and it's like suddenly, unexpectedly, I have never seen the inside of a jail, of a prison. I don't even know what that's like, other than television. So now I find myself fighting for my life.

SPEAKER_03 17:32

My God.

SPEAKER_01 17:33

And so I'm thrusted, you know, into this environment. And um, it was very traumatic to say the least. So there's various types of trauma. There's acute trauma, that's there's an incident that just it's a single incident that happens, then there is chronic trauma that I I suffer basically. It's a it's a repeated or prolonged trauma. Then there's complex trauma, um, that is multiple events that happen and it's a prolonged, it's drawn out, it's just multiple event after event. There is there is environmental or systemic trauma um being placed in a barbaric environment, an uncivilized environment that have its own code of ethics that's invisible that you must abide by if you want to survive. So now I'm looking at this type of environmental trauma, and we can't, you know, and of course, post-prison, now we're talking about systemic uh uh uh trauma in the form of discrimination, apartheid, being considered a second-class citizen by way of discrimination. And you know, what I find uh to be um a fantasy is that we think, unfortunately, in society that we have a, you know, our society believes in a second chance. I think that by and large, there are some people that believed in that and they hold it near and dear to their heart. But I think overall, uh, we have such a uh a judgmental mindset that we think because we hear something that is true. Yeah, that we see something online that is true. Yeah, we hear something word of mouth, that is true.

SPEAKER_03 19:26

Yeah, true.

SPEAKER_01 19:26

When we don't fact check. And so we place ourselves in a seat of being judgmental and hypercritical when the answer you can find if only you make the time to do so. And you know, even now we know we live in a time of AI when you can go online, you can go on IG, you don't know what's real or what's fake. Is she really talking? Oh, is that a bot? Did this really happen or did it not? And so I found myself with layers and layers of trauma, and what really kept me the saving grace, other than just the hand of God in my life, yeah, that I used that time uh to use it as a launch pad for something greater, because I knew that my purpose was much greater than my pain. And I looked at all of the individuals that um I began to study that came out of jail. We there's a common theme. Mark Wahlberg, we love his acting, amazing, Christian Slater, Robert Downey Jr. Paris Hilton, uh Martha Stewart, uh uh 50 Cents, the the rapper, uh Martin Luther King, Jesus himself, the Christ, who spent time in prison on death row and was executed. Yes, so I look at all of these facets of people who are so different, yet there's one common denominator, it was something on the inside of them that was not just a flame, but it was a raging fire of wanting more and doing more. Yeah, and I made up my mind that I would not allow a prison cell, I will not allow a stigma, I would not allow child, childhood trauma, I would not allow uh my past to hold me hostage when I have a purpose that is greater than incarceration, whether it's literally, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, financially, or otherwise. And so it was during that time that I got a chance to meet other men that were there with me, that I got a chance to teach them how to read.

SPEAKER_03 21:57

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 21:57

It was during those times that I was. Collected by wardens, wardens and superintendents, those who were overseeing a body of uh 500, 1,000, 2,000 men, and they heard my name from officers. They would come and visit me and then see me in motion, whether it was Bible study or whether it was teaching men, and pulled me to a side and said, Whatever you need on my compound, I got you. I like what you're doing. This is called favor. I love it. This is called the favor of God on your life.

unknown 22:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 22:38

But the sad part, Allison, that I found unfortunately, so much favor, so much genuineness, even in the position that I was in and trying to fight for my innocence. But I'm thrusted into this uh this culture that was, and I'm not painting the picture that it was, you know, just dancing through the bullets because there were stabbings, there were other things. So we're still talking about now vicarious trauma. Now I'm Trump traumatized by this guy that just got stabbed in front of me. Yeah, and I'm not supposed to be here. But what I have found out was is this is that all of the things that I've uh experienced behind the wall that I think if I could do it over again, I I wouldn't even, that would not be my testimony. But since it is, let's maximize it. That every experience that I've had is one chapter in the book of my life that I can oftentimes refer to for strength to now move on and to write another chapter. But what I found is that um, with all of the wardens and all of the officers, all of the caseworkers that were there for me, believed in me, uh, and went to bat for me, uh, basically just said, this is whatever you need, I got you. I I I did not receive that level of respect and honor when I was released from prison.

SPEAKER_05 24:21

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:22

Now that's very telling.

SPEAKER_02 24:24

Yeah, it's yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:26

That's very telling.

SPEAKER_02 24:28

But you know, I'll tell you, I mean, that sharing that story, I just want to comment on you, just as a person, first, if I may. You you're an incredible, I mean, I know that you had done poetry and all that, um, but you're you're an incredible speaker. Like, you know, you the way that you just describe this story is just it's it's really beautiful. So I just I took note of it, just the way that you shared it. I just wanted to say that. And um just the trying to imagine what that would be like to be living life and suddenly taken out. I actually have like this weird, you know how people are afraid of a shark in a pool? Like I have this weird, because I think I saw one episode of Orange is the New Black, where I am like terrified, like, oh my God, suppose I got wrongfully accused to I like that to be in an environment that feels so like to be trapped and not know what to do. And the way you describe that they have a code, right? That you have to, you don't know it, right? And you have to adjust, which I I just and also, I mean, I don't think you're gonna agree with me, but and I know it's God's favor on your life, but I think it's also that you carried yourself, you had to have carried yourself with a level of dignity and like integrity and and love for others, helping other men, that that is what also it reminds me of Joseph in the Bible, right? Like you just you just became the person in this very dark environment that commanded the favor because of how God made you, you know. So, but back to what you're saying, I'm I'm sure that people who, you know, they hear about a man who has been in prison or whatever, or it, you know, as soon as we hear something or even gossip about a person, it like casts a spell. It's weird. It's like you have to like go well, wait, no. So back to what you're saying.

SPEAKER_01 26:34

You know, it's it's it's something that you said. I want to kind of just uh touch on if I can. You know, unfortunately, we we we live in a society where we we have we have waived the rights of becoming independent thinkers. Yeah, I'm gonna let that marinate for a minute. Yeah, we have literally waived the right to become what we are made to be, and that is independent thinkers. Yes, and so when we hear something about someone, you know, we we we just run with it without uh without asking for any type of evidence or uh perhaps getting to know that person. You know, I can't tell you how many people that have said to me, Well, you know, I don't know about him or her. I you know, I just had a bad experience. I I think that that person is this or that, they're they're a narcissist, a pathological liar. Yeah, but that was never my encounter. I had a wonderful encounter with that person. Yeah, I'm sorry that you did, yes, but you're not gonna deflect your issues and your and your perceptions of that person onto me, right? So I can become your teammate against that person, right? And so uh being an independent thinker is very important, especially nowadays. It is uh and so um, but when we talked about the the whole trauma piece, I really want to say this because I'll be remiss not to, I don't want anyone to to misinterpret what I'm saying. I have my days while I was incarcerated, and years after of anger, sure, resentment, low self-esteem, low self-worth, inadequacy, inferiority, yeah, and here's a word revenge. I wanted sweet revenge, yeah. And there may be somebody listening now, this may never never have happened to you at all. You can't identify with this, but perhaps you have in you have uh endured something in life that was so horrific to you, yeah, it was an injustice that happened to you, yeah. Right, and and and you feel that that person get off scot-free. Yes, right. They did not, they did, they just did the damage and moved on. And so uh I I don't want you to feel uh as if you are lost because you have these emotions, and I think a lot of times, especially from a religious standpoint, oh, if you have these feelings, you know, you're doomed for hell. If you have these feelings, you know, shame on you. No, shame on you if you don't express these feelings, yeah, these emotions that are real. Yes, and so um that was something that I had to contend with. And and and when I sought counseling, therapy um with this woman that spoke into my life and pulled answers out of me, uh I began to see myself shift in such a positive direction. And even though that during those times I was still struggling and wrestling with revenge and you know, uh, you know, just avenging my name, and you know, just just thinking just horrible things against um uh this individual uh and her father, um it began to poison my system, my spiritual and emotional uh system, uh, thus making me paralyzed that I'm unable to move forward. But during those times, I also began to kind of just show up for myself and look at all of the places in my life, even as a little boy, of not feeling good enough. And I found myself in this relationship. I've now I'm getting older. Now I'm now I'm in uh my teen years and young adult years. Now I'm now I'm in this relationship, that relationship, another relationship, and for what? And many of which I'm I'm looking and I'm starving for for some type of completeness. I'm starving for uh this void to be complete. And I have a false sense of understanding um what true intimacy is. It's not bed sheets, it is it is it is a bonding connection that that individual desires to see you at a much better place, a higher place uh to heal properly. That is to me that that's one of the facets of intimacy.

SPEAKER_02 31:18

That the person is like there supporting and walking with you as you as you do your journey to heal. Is that what you mean?

SPEAKER_01 31:27

Yeah, absolutely. And we're not we're not um using um uh a person as a means of escapism. Yes, yeah, and that is so many relationships now becomes a drug, right? Yes, yeah, yes, it's cocaine or meth or whatever the choice is.

SPEAKER_02 31:48

A hundred percent. The um, and in regard to that particular, as you're describing, there's so many different directions I could go in with you in this, but you know, I I was just on another podcast where we're talking about the lack within us, people um that we're looking to fill whatever that is, the the loneliness, the sense of lack with another human being, as opposed to meeting ourselves and healing, right? So now, or in a when you describe an addiction, and I did want to talk to you about that because I know that you have, you know, a lot of insight and wisdom in regard to this with men. And we did speak off camera about the the plague and also I think the support of society of sex addiction. Like there's like, I feel like the society is like more and more supporting it, you know, and it's being like accepted in a way that is um just different than it was before. And I think also women who are um will just go along with sometimes, I'm not saying that they don't have addictions too, but will sometimes go along with a man's sexual addiction just because they so much want to be loved. So they'll they'll deny who they are and they'll say, Yeah, I don't mind pornography or I don't mind like all these other perversions sexually, that meanwhile they don't they feel violated, but they don't even know it. And then the men are also violating themselves, and they don't know it, right?

SPEAKER_01 33:26

Yeah, 100%. You know, when we're talking about pornography, we're talking about sexual deviancy, there's a route to that. It's not just a stronghold of sexual addiction, but there is something that is that is that needs to be satisfied that the host or the person have chosen sexual gratification to satisfy it. Well, what is the it? When we get to the it, now the sexual addiction or pornography, i.e., can lose its power. Yes. What is the it? Is the it uh uh have having a sense to be to be loved? How about belonging? That's something that we all, regardless if you're male or female, we just want to have a sense of belonging. And so we we have these type of issues. I I liken it unto Allison, an iceberg. We look at a mammoth iceberg and it is huge on top of the water, whether it is the uh the the Arctic, you know, the Antarctic, wherever. But but just just just envision this huge iceberg that is mammoth, uh 200, 300 feet above the water. But I would and but I would charge you to do your research because the larger piece of that iceberg lies beneath the water.

SPEAKER_03 34:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 34:54

And it's always the things that we don't see that is the the bigger issue that we need to chip away at. Yeah, and so that's when when I when I look at uh especially, you know, men, we we have um we have massed a lot of pain and trauma. And the go-to drug of choice is uh you know sexual relations with someone, uh it is porn. I mean Pornhub uh is an a massive uh uh business. Uh it it it it it amasses billions of dollars a year.

SPEAKER_03 35:40

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 35:41

And I think the the last I heard, and I'm sure that it's probably the the figures are um are greater than that, uh well over 20 billion dollars annually.

SPEAKER_05 35:52

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 35:53

And so uh we're talking about not just uh Joe Blow, who works uh at a gas station or unloading a truck uh at UPS. No, we're talking about CEOs, we're talking about senators, we're talking about House of Representatives, we're talking about presidents, we're talking about uh uh pastors, and so um this is a huge monster. It's the 800-pound gorilla that's in the um in the living room with the Prada bag, and we walk by and see this gorilla with the Prada bag and act like it doesn't exist.

SPEAKER_02 36:30

Yes, and the abnormal becomes normal. The abnormal, and you know, it's like it becomes like it's like more and more acceptable, it becomes blurred out. Like, yeah. So when you when you think about, and I love what you're saying, that in like that's that is not a good, but it is a the solution to whatever the trauma is or whatever the the lack is inside. And if men are taught not to ever look, right?

SPEAKER_01 37:03

You know, I I I I talked a little bit uh uh a while back about the Miranda Law. You know, the Miranda Law is a law that's that that that's set in place where um we see it on television, but it is real. Uh, you have the right to remain silent. Anything that you say can and will be held against you by a court of law. Yes, and so um that comes before the arrest, the Miranda Law is given by law enforcement. Uh now, as men, we have taken on, in my humble opinion, an emotional Miranda law. Yes, we have reserved the right to remain silent, yes, silent about our fears, silent about the brokenness, silent about the molestation that took place at age eight, seven, sixteen, in touch properly by your pastor, in touch properly by your teacher. Uh, we have remained silent about a father who spent more time working a corporate or blue-collar job than spending time with you. So we have an array of various issues that we are silent about, and unfortunately, because of our silence, those issues have us under arrest.

SPEAKER_02 38:25

Yes, so true. It's an amazing analogy. Would you say that this is where I get tangled, and I would love to hear your wisdom. So, like when when we want men to be able to, you know, speak, to express what they feel about things, while at the same time them wanting to be maybe the storm wall in their family, wanting to be strong, and you know, and this illusion that, you know, this shared, you know, sharing their voice is going to somehow take away their masculinity or and I just can't even count how many men, you know, just being in this business forever, how many men have been sexually abused and are so ashamed because it's the same sex abuse, you know, same uh gender abuse, and they just don't know, they fight not to be seen as gay, they don't want anyone to know. And so many people who are abused in any way take on the shame of the abuse instead of recognizing that they're not the person who did it, right? If their body responds to it, then they hate their body or they feel like there's something wrong with them, right? And it's just a natural reaction of the body, right? Even a small child.

SPEAKER_01 39:44

So I just that's what happened to me. Yeah. Oh when I was when I was molested, um I uh I stored it in the back of my mind. Yes, I act like it never happened and never existed. Yes, just like being bullied. I just store it in the back of my mind, it just I just suppressed it. Uh that's the huge iceberg that I made reference to earlier, yes, that that lies beneath the water of your life. And so um I um I I I see what we go through um when we mask it as being being very problematic. Because we are told in society that if you are if you are a man and you've been molested, something's wrong with you.

SPEAKER_03 40:36

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 40:37

Um, or if something have happened in your life that's very devastating and you need to talk to someone other than Jack Daniels and Jim Bean. Right. You know, uh, you know, something is wrong with you. And the bars, not in every instance, but in the vast majority of instances, are filled with little boys, yeah, and men buy. Yes, that's just they're just tired. They're just tired. I know because I was one of them. I sat this I sat beside them. They'll come in very loud and very clamorous, buying everybody's shots. Hey, how you doing, sweetie? What's your name? Okay, well, shot for her, too. But when you get them by themselves, away from the crowd, away from their boys, now you begin to hear some of the horror stories that they have suppressed. What is it? It's the issues of a mammoth iceberg that lies beneath the waters or the ocean of their souls. Yeah, their souls are wounded, and so we're taught as men to not speak, and we're but we're all taught to man up. But my question, Alison, how can we man up if we don't speak up? And it's one of the wonderful attributes of women, they can get together, whether it is at a winery and sitting at the table and drinking Chardonnay and talking about their pain. Yeah, they can talk about their pain while shopping, they can talk about their pain while walking, uh uh wherever. Um, but when it comes to us as men, uh we bottled it up, we store it, we put it on the back shelf of our lives, um, just not understanding that what we're storing is TNT, and all it takes is one spark for the whole house to blow.

SPEAKER_02 42:39

Yeah. What did you do? Like, did you ever want to tell anyone about the abuse that happened to you? Or did you you you just stored it away, but did you eventually ever tell, you know, your parents or anyone?

SPEAKER_01 42:53

That's a great question, uh Alison, because I I like most men, I I I suppressed it. It became that huge iceberg in my life. I I I get to a place where uh I developed selective amnesia concerning what happened to me. Yeah. Because it was a safe place for me. I interpreted it as being unsafe to talk about it. When in fact it is safe to talk about it, but I had not yet taken that course of life here. But it wasn't until um being uh uh exiled and then spewed out of the system and now connecting my life with a therapist to talk about that incident that happened in my life. But then as we begin to unravel that incident, now there are other incidents such as the bullying, such as the molestation, such as feeling less than, and going all the way back. This woman walked me all the way back to my childhood. And this is where the vast majority of our issues, regardless of the wonderful car that you may drive, foreign car, whether it's an Aston, Martin, Abu Gotti, or whatever, regardless of the wonderful title, all of the achievements and the accolades, we all have um various um uh episodes that we're trying to escape.

SPEAKER_03 44:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 44:30

But uh, and it's very easy to clothe that, to camouflage that. But I think that when there is in my instance, to answer your question, there was this huge major event that drove me to a counselor's office to sit on the couch to talk about that and how it how it um uh horribly impacted my life. And as we begin to unpack that, she found another box that we need to unpack. And so we begin to unpack that journey all the way back to my childhood.

SPEAKER_02 45:02

Yes, and that's why I but up until then I hate it. That's why I feel like sometimes God, not sometimes, very often, God allows these situations in our lives that end up being, even though they're really horrible, not to minimize your experience in prison, but that they are the things that bring us to greater healing if we let them, right? So it's like, you know, he's always leading us to, you know, expansion and growth, right? So I just want to comment be just because whenever I hear about somebody who's been bullied, I just when I think about little children being bullied, it's I feel like it's just horrible, like what they go through. And because words spoken, they're you know, zero to seven years old, you're in a theta brainwave. Like you hear things, they don't go, it doesn't go away. Children are wet cement, you know? And it's like then it's whatever their interpretation is of it, and then it becomes their identity. And it's just, I've seen people that they've gone through so much of their life, and it's still there, the bullying, the voices, and the cruelty, you know. So I'm sorry that you were bullied, by the way. I just want to say that to you.

SPEAKER_01 46:23

Really, just just a lot, a lot, a lot of these children, and I thank you so much for that, Alison. I used to, you know, feel the same way to a higher degree than you. Um I I think that now and it now in retrospect, I look at the lives of the children that bullied me. Yes, and so many others, there are countless uh uh uh incidents where and just uh not too long ago, one young one young and I I began to weep. It it affected my heart in such a way I had to weep. She's on her way to school, bullied by these girls. They took her glasses off, broke them, and on one episode, and it was it was recorded, of course, for social media, but the person recorded never ran to the aid of the victim. Um picked her up, slammed her, broke her neck, she died.

SPEAKER_05 47:22

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 47:24

Wow, she was cut down in the spring, not the summer, the spring of her life. So, my question is you know, we we have such a um uh a very uh hard way of looking at things, and I look at it that way too, but I'm also looking at um from a psychological standpoint, what happened in their lives that drove them to a place, such a dark, demonic place, if you will, uh to take an authority or position of authority that is not yours, yes, to take someone's life. What happened to you behind closed doors?

SPEAKER_02 48:07

That's what I loved that you said originally when you were describing your life and you were just you were painting this picture of your neighborhood, and that behind those closed doors, there's all of these experiences happening. You weren't describing yourself as a victim, you were describing all these people's lives who were converging together, these young kids. And that is what that is. The bullies, I mean, what happened to them? Right? So, no, I hear you. Like, there's no one who's like, it's not just the kid who's being bullied, right? So, yeah, I really appreciate that perspective. It's very important because even just people saying the words like, oh, kids are cruel, I don't agree with that. I mean, kids are not cruel, they're you know, yeah, they're the identified patient. That's the problem, you know. We have people bring kids in all the time. Fix him or her. He's a problem, you know. He has this, and we all know here, he's just being identified as the one who's like like blocking what is actually happening in the household, right?

SPEAKER_01 49:15

He's the so honest, as you know, in your line of work, they will tell you the truth, they will tell you what's going on behind closed doors. Yes, oftentimes it's the parents that are lying. Yes, I we see that all the time, but the child will uncover it.

SPEAKER_02 49:32

Yes, we see it all the time, and it's you know, that's the the hard part because then trying to help them we want to help the parents be better parents, but if they're not willing to see it, you know, and it's not severe enough to have the child, you know, so there's just so much to it, but at least there's an adult there for them. But it's um, you know, it's a what do we what you said before, it's a gumbo of layers.

SPEAKER_00 50:02

Yes, gumbo of music.

SPEAKER_02 50:04

I'm gonna keep doing, I'm gonna keep using that word you use because I loved it. So tap so how did you so did you through your um really unbelievably traumatic experiences, like to me, just the prison thing just stands out so much. There's so many layers to that. Pre, post, you know, pre-during and then post, just unbelievable, the injustice, all of it. Like, what have you done with that internally? You know, because listen, I I completely would understand if you felt still like the injustice of it, right? I'm just curious what you you've how you've moved through that.

SPEAKER_01 50:46

Yeah. Uh wow, yeah. Uh another another powerful um question. Uh, I I would love to sit here and lie to you. I wouldn't want to lie to you without it.

SPEAKER_02 50:57

Listen, I would be like, I hate that boom. Whatever. I don't want to say it, but yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 51:02

Yeah, you know, it sounds very palatable and pious to say that, you know, oh, I am fine. Uh I I've forgotten about all of that. I'm moving on with my life. I still have my triggers. Of course. And even though I help men, yes, I do. Um, and even though I have a coaching practice, yes, I do. Um, but I still I'm triggered by certain things. And I think that um that that pins point not to a weakness or anything that's pathological, but I think it points to the reality of there's something that is emotional. And we're three-part beings, you know, we we have a body, uh, we possess a soul, uh, but without our spirit, it's like taking a battery out of a car. Well, I don't care how expensive the car is, uh, it could be it can have a thousand horsepower power, but if you take the battery out, uh it's nothing but a shell. And so um we have emotions. I so I I think I'm at the place where to recognize my triggers and to not see it as being something that is terrible. Uh, it was told to me a long time ago that if it's hysterical, it's historical.

SPEAKER_05 52:16

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 52:17

If it's hysterical, it's historical.

SPEAKER_05 52:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:21

So there's there's a there's a history that's attached to that particular trigger, and it's okay. I just I'm at a place now to not allow the triggers to rule me. Uh, because I understand that decisions determine our direct directions, and our directions, they determine our destiny, and that is my job, not the trigger's job. I'm going to determine my destiny, not what happened to me, not what I went through, regardless of uh of what I did not receive as a child, uh, all of the injustice, uh, abuse, or whatever the case may be, that I am responsible concerning how the story ends. The pen is in my hand. And I think that that was another turning point for me to understand that I don't get a pass regardless, and not to make light of anyone's situation that may be listening to this podcast, watching this podcast, not making light. I I I I am so sorry. Yeah, but at the end of the day, you are so important that your purpose and your identity is not connected to that event. Your pain does not dictate your purpose at all.

SPEAKER_02 53:45

Yes. Yeah. The um, you know, what what would you say? I mean, for a man to be in a situation like that, that I can't even imagine how fright, I mean, frightening, like so frightening, and having to, you know, always, and I'm sure a lot of the time having to be in a survival mode, right? And develop, yeah. So then to come out and be a civilian, right? And interact with other human beings who can be unreasonable at different times or even like irrational, right? Um, do you are you able to in a moment, like I always think about what is emotional sobriety? An event happens outside of here, right? It ha happens outside of me. And then emotional sobriety is I I feel a feeling, but then I go inward. Like emotional drunkenness is I go outward. You know, it's about them, or I'm gonna fight them, I'm gonna whatever it is about that person. But when we go inward, like then we can, I mean, that's where everything is trying to solve like an internal problem, tinkering around outside, like doesn't work, right? I think about Jesus, since we we both love Jesus, so I think about like he was the most detached person, but the most able to love, right? He's in his mission, like what's happening out here? He could feel he could care, but like you could love more when you're when you're detached from it, right? That it does it doesn't determine you, right? So with you, like you've taken these experiences and you've translated them, transmuted them into caring for others, building this more than a coaching um situation. You help men to find their purpose. Can you tell us about what do you do with yourself? I'm sure it begins with you, and then what do you do with the men that you serve? Like how do you help them?

SPEAKER_01 55:57

So I had, you know, there's a verse uh in the Bible says that the husbandman must be the first partaker of the fruit. In other words, that that that I must benefit from it first uh before you can. Yeah. And so I need to take this medicine first and become better, and then now I am qualified and justified with credibility to tell you how good the medicine has worked for me. So here's some for you. Um, and so that's something that I had to become my first client. I became my first client. I did that too.

SPEAKER_02 56:38

I've a lot of a lot of therapists do that. I would pretend, I would like do in my classes, I would pretend, I would write a case like scenario, and it would be about me. I'm always like trying to help myself. It's funny, right?

SPEAKER_01 56:50

Yeah, exactly, exactly. And so in doing that, I see how much I have in common with those men that I meet. Yeah, I'm not at a place at a lofty place or plateau that's two dimensions beyond where we are, and I'm looking down and telling you what telling you what you need to do, uh, or thinking that I am better than you. No, I am on your same level, and I'm walking with you. And you mentioned Christ, and I think that that's a perfect segue. One of the reasons why he was so detached from the Pharisees is that he knew who he was, yeah, and he also knew what he was not and who he was to serve. And he can rebuke the Pharisees that want to put a stigma or a label on him that was unjustifiable, and at the same time meet a woman at the well and tell her that you are more than your past. Yes, he can call Lazarus out of a stinking tune and let him know that listen, it's time for you to live finally. Yes, and so um I think that uh when I meet with men, when I interact with them, it is at a place where now we're we're on the same level. I'm here to help you walk out your purpose. Uh, we can talk about the past, but I don't delve deep into the past as you would uh because you're a therapist. What I do, I I I look at where you are right now, we discuss where you want to go, we come up with a plan of action, and I hold you accountable, and we're gonna walk it out. Yeah, and so um and and and that that brings me the most enjoyment um because that's my purpose. And so I I just I I I I get very um elated to help other people uh put on the glasses, the emotional and spiritual glasses to be able to see that they have a purpose as well.

SPEAKER_02 58:56

Yeah. You know what? Do you think about I'm sure you do, but maybe I don't know yet. Maybe I don't know you, but I'm thinking, all right, you have these experiences. Let's just take those five years, like in prison, right? So now horrible. Now, can we say that that's in terms of in some ways, it's your greatest education because you went into the the darkness, you learned about it through experien through experience. And um, I have like all these like really, really like traumatic things. I laugh about it because I actually do think it's funny because I see what it's done. Like, you know, I'm away from it. So it's like being sexually abused, having an eating disorder, being in a murder trial, like all these like crazy things. But I feel like it almost became comical. Like I feel like because I'm like, and it's not funny, and I don't mean to minimize it, but it's like that God is like, I'm like, okay, like, and I would picture myself, like if there would be a client who had like whatever the thing was that let's say had they had no hope, they just could not stop having an eating disorder and just suffering, suffering. But then I felt like I could take, I would picture myself taking a stake. I actually saw it as a cross and hammering it into the land and be like, you know what? I own that land, I can sit in that land with you. I'm gonna go, let's just go in there. I have authority over that land now because I've been there, you know, right? Do you have authority over the land of that horrific place of that prison of being also being wrongfully accused?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:36

Exactly. Or whatever it is in life, yes, whatever it is that have you stuck, yes, paralyzed, unable to move. Yes, you're constantly thinking about it. It's haunting the house of your mind, tormenting you over and over again. Oftentimes, we would take those situations and episodes, and it come it becomes our identity. Yes, that is not your identity. Yes, what happened to you is not who you are, it happened to you, but it is not you. And uh I think that that's a great analogy that you were talking about as far as with the cross and walking in that authority, uh, to to seize the moment and to show up for ourselves, and because you you're worth it. And uh when we take that type of posture of authority, um, we have to understand it's something that you mentioned as far as uh the school of heart knock, so to speak, or the university of affliction, yes, uh, or the academy of affliction, rather. Yeah, that we could call it so many things, we can call it whatever, uh, exactly. Um, yes, sure. Uh many things we wish that we did not have to incur. We wish that we did not have to be a witness to or experience. But I also look at the things that you know uh a pearl is found in the mouth of an uh of an oyster, yeah. It is hidden, yet you yet uh you will find that same pearl that is found in the mouth of mouth of an oyster, uh at Tiffany and Company. I mean astronomical in price.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:14

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:15

Diamonds are made under immense pressure, it's nothing more than just a black coal, black rock. It has no value whatsoever. None. Yeah, but you take that same diamond and you allow it to go under the immense pressure over a period of time. Now that black coal is a highly priced jewel, but it had to endure the pressure, and that's how I kind of see the the five years, and that's how I kind of see the molestation. I that's how I kind of see the bullying, feeling less than, and not having a father to really show you how to become a man, uh, and and all of that, the discrimination, uh yeah, feeling like a second-class citizen, uh, all of these things. So, and now we know Romans 8 and 28, that all things work together for the good of them who love God, who are the called according to his purpose. So, no matter what you throw at me, life, guess what? It's going to work for my good. No matter how you count me out, I am still gonna come back.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:28

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:29

And so all of these things, we're still going back to the gumbo. Mix it up. I'm still gonna come out. One big, one big squash of gumbo.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:38

Yes, exactly. So yeah, so like for you, like when you if you're sp there's a there's a there's a topic I want to talk to you about. I'm just curious because if we look at masculine feminine, they talk about masculine and feminine, like the you know, so I've I'm just like I've been looking into this more and more because I I believe that you know that we're made a certain ways, obviously, right? But what do you think makes working with men um different from women and the way that they two the two work together? Because let me just say this one part. So this is just what I believe doesn't mean I'm right. Don't I don't want any haters here, okay? So I feel like I feel like as I think men really, really are made for caring, caring for their uh their wife and child. Like I think they're made for that. And I feel like when they can't do that or they don't know that, that they and also they that's why it's very hard for them if their wife is complaining or unhappy, because it's a reflection of the how well they're doing, right? So it's because women like will complain to connect, and men will experience it as criticism, right? Or control and all that. So it's like now what I'm wondering about is that now if you have men who feel like they they need to be, and maybe, maybe this is a mistake on my part. I'm just curious that a man to be like a storm wall, I've said that. You gotta be a storm wall for for your woman, like not fly off the handle or you know, or overreact, but be able to take, I don't mean abuse though, you know, take a woman, you know, having feelings or whatever that is. But it doesn't mean the woman should be irrational. I don't mean that. But how do we like marry together that concept, and maybe you don't agree with it, but with them also, I feel like I kind of know this. They also they share, they share what they they're able to share what they feel, but they're also carrying the strength that they need to to feel that sense of masculinity. Do you know what I mean? Is that clear to you what I'm saying? Yes. You're sure? You didn't look like you thought it was clear.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:21

You've got to come up with some type of understanding.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:25

You can ask me what I actually mean, but so it is it not clear what I'm saying? I'm kind of thinking like, um, so a woman, like obviously, men and women take care of one another, obviously, right? But and it's not like, but I think that men are like there to like protect and provide. Doesn't mean that the woman is a, you know, doesn't do anything. I don't mean that, but there's a sense of like, you know, like I'm gonna cover my family, I'm gonna take care of my family, right? And then the so now they're there, does that make them not share their feelings? So, like, let's say their wife is sharing whatever's bothering them. Maybe they won't feel like they can, right? Because when, and then that goes into a whole other thing because she's reacting, which she shouldn't. But I'm just wondering what you think about those, you know, the masculine and feminine in regard to men being able to be open and share and talk, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:30

Right, right, and we have to have, first of all, an environment that's conducive to sharing a hundred percent, yes, without judgment. We need a judgment-free zone, yes, I agree, confidentiality and conversation, yes, that that that breeds understanding, and this is what we need. Yeah, so uh yes, the differences are there between men and women, yeah. We have been uh conditioned and programmed as men to be the savior of everything, yes, that if something is out of control, it's your fault. If uh you know the the sky is now is no longer blue but it's red, it's your fault. And so uh we have, and especially if you're dealing with a man who has insecure has insecurities, uh if he uh is a man who uh needs uh constant validation and affirmation and approval, yeah, not walking in the confidence of who he truly is and what his lane is, then he will succumb to the notion that if something is wrong with her, it's my fault. She's composed, she just wants to talk about something that is real that most women struggle with, or it's my fault. He will internalize her issues, uh, and vice versa. And I think that that's a huge mistake because we don't give one another grace, we don't give one another chance to grow in an environment to do so, and and we really don't listen to each other as we ought to, to be honest with you. We're listening through ears of pain and trauma, yeah, as opposed to uh ears of discernment, yeah, uh wisdom, prudence, uh, and and um and grace.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:34

Yeah, I um I discovered something, I just bumped into it in my life, and it worked out really well. Was that I made a decision because I was observing my friend, this is forever ago, just being so fine with being wrong. Like she just did not mind being wrong, no reaction, whatever. And I noticed, I was like, you know what? I'm gonna take the concept of right and wrong just out of my life. I'm just taking it out. And it was weird. It was almost like in, you know, the semantics of it. And I was like, you know what? I any conversation, so the way I would interact with my husband, you know, I would say, I have this feeling, but it it, I'm not saying you're wrong or you did anything wrong. I'm just saying I have this feeling and I need help with it. So like we became like able to say, like, I could say I'm mad, but it doesn't mean he's bad. Like it doesn't matter, like, and he could say something and it doesn't so like and like listening with the only intention is to understand without any agenda. No agenda, like because we're so scared of like the threat of maybe being wrong. I try to tell my kids, like, it's okay, like let's just be wrong. Like, like, what is wrong? Like, let's just be wrong, right? And all the therapists here, I'm like, I don't care if you're wrong, I don't care if you made a mistake, just it's fine. Who cares? Like, do how we're so invested in that, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:09

Right, and I think a lot of that what you're saying is so true because um we we oftentimes, you know, if you if you have come from an environment where everything that you do is wrong, oh yeah, you're a lot of men do right is never celebrated, yes, and so now you have taken on that mindset, that identity, and that posture. So now you're in a relationship and your partner points out something um that is wrong, or just points out something just in general, and now we're listening through the same ears of a 12-year-old. Yes, yes, and now we're trying to rush in to save it, but it's really nothing to save, it's just to sit back and observe.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:54

I've been in situations like that, like in other relationships, just where, like, just even me saying, like, oh, you know, I feel no attack, just nothing. Just like, you know, whatever. Maybe I wanted more attention or something. And then like the person going off the chain, like so mad, and like feeling judged and all that. And I'm like, you know, like, and it's nothing close to what I'm thinking or feeling, but you can't, like, you can't have that conversation. It's just coming from an unhealed person, right? And of course, and I'm not saying that I am a hundred percent healed either. I'm just saying, like, you can see that, and I and I just I see that here, like in the counseling centers, like so many marriages are have these problems where if they just if their intention was to just understand the other person without feeling like they're attacked, it's such it's like miraculous, like it actually works if they're willing to do it, each one, you know. But yeah, so I'm I'm trailing off, so which I do. Um, what would you say? Yeah, what would you say to like a man or the you know, like a man who's really lost all hope? I would imagine at times throughout your experiences that you lost all hope.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:27

100%.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:28

Like, was it were there those were there those very dark moments where you just could not see that you would ever feel good again or anything like that?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:37

Well, even taking it a step beyond that to the to the 150th power, there were times that I actually wanted to take my life. Yes, because I felt that death would probably be much more beneficial and less painless than this pain that I'm having to deal with on a constant basis on this planet, in which we understand that death is a uh um a permanent solution for a temporary problem.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:05

Um, so yeah, there were times that I was certainly pressed beyond measure.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:10

Yeah. You know what I'm gonna ask of you is that I have this reel where um I'm talking about death by suicide, and there is about there's like 900,000 like people who viewed it, and they're all commenting on there that they, you know, all different people are saying they want to die. And then there's other people like, you know, answering them, and it's just taken on this life of its own. So I ask everybody who's on my podcast to just speak to when you know, somebody who's had that in their own life, who's felt that I've have felt that it's a it's a very um, it's a unique experience, it's like an eclipsing of the mind. Like there's like there's no hope, and then there's like the it seems like that is the answer. So if if you were like could imagine like the person in front of you, like one of the men that you know you care so much about, like were to tell you like they want to die by suicide, what would you say to them?

SPEAKER_01 1:15:09

Uh I would well, I would not shame them because that's that's not something that they need in that crisis, um, but wise intervention. Um I would let them know that as painful as where you are right now, stuck in this place, it's like a chapter that you can't get out of. I want to be here with you to turn the page and write a new chapter. I just I just want you to have enough strength to trust me that I will stay here with you in this no matter how dirty it is, no matter how uncumbersome it is. Uh I I will stay here with you and be committed to you if you are committed to me to be with you in this, to now turn the page.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:10

Let's keep writing.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:12

Yeah. And you know, because sometimes I think younger people I've seen like it just whatever they're experiencing, because they don't have evidence of things turning around yet, you know, in their life, like they'll think that wherever they are, it's just gonna be like this forever, right? I know that I feel that even like now, like if I have like a bad feeling, I'm like, wait, Allison, are you thinking this is gonna be like this forever? And I'm like, yes. And then I'm like, oh wait, it's not, you know, like that's like the first emotional reaction. I'm like, oh, this is gonna be like this forever.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:45

But it right because we live in a you live in an age where everything is quick and so accessible. You know, we have a computer in our pocket that's called a smartphone, we get instant uh messages, we get instant uh food, everything is instant. So we think that oftentimes, unfortunately, that adversities are instant as well, it's supposed to end like now, right? True. Most times that's not the case, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:17:12

And the moving through it is really the the thing that helps us, and just even just being in it, and you feel like you you can't even do anything about it, something is still happening, right? I have to tell my honestly, I have to tell myself that now. I have to go something's happening that's good. I don't know what it is, and you're not doing anything good about it, but something's good is happening. Like, I'll actually have to say that to me. That's like my encouragement, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:17:44

We have to encourage ourselves because we live in such a time, and the climate of this country, the climate of the world, yes, is in a state of confusion and chaos, yes, death and destruction. So we have to constantly, not every day, sometimes every hour, every minute, you're gonna make it. And listen, this is not the end. You you you you you gotta keep pushing because we live in such a place of negativity. I mean, you know, every I mean, my goodness, I mean, every time we turn on the television, there's you know, there's a there's a drive-by, there's this, there's that. It's everything is so negative. Yes, and and because we don't highlight the positive, but we now have to become the breaking news ourselves. Yes, we have to literally become a news flash. I'm gonna make it. I love that. I'm gonna overcome. Tomorrow's a new day.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:41

Yes, you know what? I love that because you know what? You would think I was cracked, like cuckoo, because I'll be in, I don't even know I'm doing it. My son was like, Who are you talking to? Like, it would be me. I'm talking to myself right here. Yeah, I'll be like, Oh, uh, you know, I'll be really down in my head, and then I'll be like, You got this, Allison. And then I'll go up to the miracle, be like, You're beautiful, you know that, you know what? And I'll just start, even though I'm not feeling it, like I'll just be like, you know what, you got this. It's okay, you're gonna make it. This is just one day, you know, whatever. Things always work out.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:18

This is gonna freak you out. You may already know it, I'm not sure. Perhaps uh this will be a blessing to your listeners. Tell me, this is scientifically proven that a an oak tree was uh cut in half, and uh, and this is all on YouTube, by the way. Fact check this. So an oak tree was cut in half, and they took the the half that was cut, they they they they basically trimmed it down to uh the size of a phonographic records. Now, for you gen wise, you have no idea what I'm talking about. So uh a record that DJs used to spin back in the all of that before you guys started streaming and all of that.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:05

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:08

So they took this oak tree, right? And so and they took it to this place of to to treat the oak, and uh they they trimmed it down uh to like the size of a uh a photographic round, like a photographic record. And when they began to place it on what looks to be uh like a record player that would play records, um, but it was through some type of uh laser sonars or whatnot, they heard this beautiful music from a tree. Yes, yes, a tree, a living tree, yes. So that that in itself shows me the power of nature, yes, and the power that we have within ourselves, yes, to speak a thing into existence, to walk in the power and the authority and the identity of not who you uh think that you are, which is very flawed because of what you've gone through, which was unfortunate, which we which was unfortunate, but the reality of who you are, so that you can produce beautiful music in your life, yes, and in my life.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:23

Yes, I believe that all of nature has beautiful music just going on, and we don't we just don't hear it. And like sound waves are so powerful. Like um, you know, that's why I think the spoken word, you know, in the beginning was the word, and the word was all right. I feel like like we had like any words spoken over someone or any of that. They did another thing with like um uh a leaf, which you probably heard about it, but it was like if it was on the ground, and then when they take the leaf off the ground, that then they could measure the energy around the leaf, and that oh no, I'm sorry, the leaf was cut, and then so just half of the leaf was there, and then you could measure the energy, like they put light through it, and they could see this whole beautiful leaf was still like its presence or whatever it was, its light was still there, and it's just and you know, like we we don't realize like no eye has seen, you know, no ear has heard, like there is so much happening around us that we're just not aware of. There's so much more, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:22:31

Absolutely, yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:32

So tell there's I don't even know what time it is. I could be like running into your dinner, I don't even know, but it's irrelevant. You there's um there's a book on here that you wrote that I'm curious about Women If You Only Knew. Could you just tell us what the point like the whole the the summary of that is?

SPEAKER_01 1:23:00

Sure. Thank you for asking. Um so Woman If You Only Knew was a book that I wrote uh uh telling or basically informing uh women of what we think and what we wrestle with oftentimes as men. So I I I think it's uh a book uh that speaks to the very heart of men. And of course I can't speak for all men, but I I think that I can speak for most men. Some of the things that we don't talk about, some of the vices that we struggle with, some of the insecurities that we have, some of the fears that we have, uh that we camouflage, uh, will you stay with me? Uh can I count on you? Can I trust you? Those kinds of things. And so it begins to speak uh to the to the heart of women from the heart of men, what we go through, how we feel, what we think about, and uh yeah, it basically summarizes that. I love that.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:02

Could you just give us a few of them? Just a couple.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:07

Yes, yes, uh absolutely. So um the book is over there. All of these books are not woman if you only knew, but I'll be right back. Okay, yeah. I mean, do you is that okay?

SPEAKER_02 1:24:19

Just that's fine, it's within arm's reach. Just anything that we need to know about what a man feels or thinks that would be of help to us.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:29

Okay, gotcha. Okay, thank you so much for saving the trip.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:33

No, I yeah, you didn't have to go.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:35

I basically, yeah, so all of your books will be in our to leave and go to the library to read everything. Pick a channel.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:43

Yeah, no, no, no, I didn't want you to do that. Just like from your heart, like what do we need to know that would be of help to men?

SPEAKER_01 1:24:53

Absolutely. Um, that um that we have fears too. Yeah, we may not talk about it because we walk around with our um our Superman cape on as we step out of the phone booth, but there's another side to us, and that's Clark Kent. And I think Clark Kent is probably more real than Superman because you can't get one without the other. Yeah, and I know that we appear to be Superman because of the power job, power position, how you look, what you have, the expectations of society concerning you and life and how you move throughout life, those superpowers. But our kryptonite uh have been uh not having the courage uh or the environment to be able to show up as Clark can't, our insecurities, our our fears, the things that we wrestle with. So I I think that that is a perfect uh analogy of um that we you look at us as Superman and how we want to come in and save the day, and but there is another side of us that we we don't like to express to you. And you know, we we can't continue to save the world because we burn out, yeah. And um we can't be everything and and everywhere at the same time because we're stressed out, right? So we just want you to understand that there's another side to us. If you can embrace Superman, don't discount Clark King.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:34

Oh, yeah, and just being seen, right? And like and understood and accepted, yeah, exactly. Like a place, like a safe haven, a place to go. Yes, when you gotta go out there in the world, but you have like the per that person that you can tell these things to that will still see you as, you know, appreciate you and see you as a hero. And we would, you know, respect you. Yes, of course, yes, yeah. I do think there's a lot of that where men will not be respected if they share, you know, something, you know, vulnerable. Yeah, I I don't like that. Absolutely, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:12

And that's why we go back, you know, going back to the Miranda law, the right to remain silent. And that's some of the things that we kind of just uh suppress, yeah, uh, until it blows up on the job and you get into a fight with one of your colleagues or something like that. That's just one of many examples. Yeah, but yeah, I mean we we have to have a safe environment. You know, you can't take a uh a plant out of the rainforest uh of Brazil uh and take it to Arizona and plant it in the desert and expect for it to live. Because you have taken out taken that plant out of its natural habitat, yeah. It needs to be in the correct soil, the correct temperature, the correct atmospheric uh pressures, everything. have to be conducive for it to flourish. And the same thing with us as men. When you have a man, honestly, when you have a man who feels so comfortable in a woman, yeah, that he can basically tell her anything and she not look at him any different. Yes, that is a joy.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:20

That is it.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:21

And sometimes as men, because we're led by our lust and not by wisdom, um we will connect with someone because she's beautiful. We will connect because she has a nice body, a nice career, car, whatever the case may be, but she does not have the capacity or the maturity to be able to be the soil that you can grow.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:47

Yeah, that's cool.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:48

And so she looks at you different oh I thought you were better than that. You're acting weak. You're a weak man uh because she has her own issues that have not been worked out. And so what that man will do he will ingest that he will suppress that and when he gets into another rel another relationship with someone else he will not forget that. So he will not show up with all of himself. He will show up as Superman but he refuses to show up as Clark Kent because he understood how he was cut down by a weapon of mass destruction that's called the tongue.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:27

Yeah. What would you say to the woman who the woman who then is with the man who wants to you know wants to hear what he has to say but he's so you know guarded what would you say I mean obviously the man needs healing and all that but what would you say to that woman?

SPEAKER_01 1:29:47

I I think that just uh showing up and letting him know that hey listen I'm your ally I'm not your op. I'm your ally I'm not the opposition. Yep and I just want you to know that you have a safe place with me.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:06

I want you to know that you don't have to go outside of this home to talk to Sarah Lee Baba the next you mean the pound cake you know can you get to a pound cake right because or Mrs Smith exactly right that's another way Baba water about what you're going through.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:30

Yeah yeah sure she has a listening ear and yes sure she will listen to you uh and and and you know and Delilah listened to Samson exactly what happened to him exactly and so I would just encourage the women to just uh to just show up and just let him know that you are his ally and that you are interested in how he feels and what he thinks and it will stay right here.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:55

Yeah that's good because I think a lot of times like I would say things like you know we're on the same team.

unknown 1:31:03

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:03

We're on the same team we're not we're not on separate teams you know right but it's like and that you know that sticks with people because they're like wait oh that's true we're not against one another but then you know I think one of the things I'm I'm always telling like even the therapist here I'm telling them like say the words like if you're just thinking oh well I would listen to him you know but say the words that you would listen instead of like asking the questions about how do you feel are you okay blah blah blah like actually say I just want you to know I'm I'm here like I'm here to hold space if you do or when you do without judgment right because like that is like like setting the stage right instead of it's like because sometimes men are like I'm fine why do you keep asking me thinking there's something wrong it's just we do that like what's wrong what's bothering you you know and we think that that is leaving a place for them to talk but then they just feel like possibly that you're criticizing them that there's something wrong with them right right right and as men we have to also we have to own our own as well uh that to when when the door is open a positive door is open for dialogue and conversation uh to to to see it for what it really is and to take advantage of it. Yeah yeah that's what they need you to tell them yeah to help them right I'm here can you tell us what so I want to know how people can find you how they can how be served by you how they can like do you do it virtually do you do it in person what do you do tell us and where they can find you absolutely thank you so much so yeah so uh shame free life coaching and consulting uh you can reach me just by going to the website that's www.theshamfreelife shamefreelife.com um you can uh shoot me an email um you can also um uh connect through sampson restored uh it is a program uh a group actually that I have formed of all men of group therapy that we can come together that we can uh basically become a support for one another uh everyone is on different levels and stages uh but the end result is for us to become greater men and to show up for ourselves better than we have so therefore everyone else can benefit um that's sampson restored and uh you can go there uh to the uh to the shamefreelife you can literally sign up for sampson restored and um and and we can move forward for one on one and group uh coaching uh is there uh and this is virtual by the way because you asked as far as uh is it virtual or not yes it is virtual um so you can uh find that information on the website as well or you can just set up a free discovery call uh just sign up for a free discovery call get on my calendar and we can see if we are a good fit and um and and if we're not a good fit then I will refer you to Alison.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:28

So but uh you know uh but but there's so many different ways of getting in contact with this this is not just a coaching practice it's actually a masculine movement true masculinity yes and so uh shoot me an email uh sign up for 101 or group coaching or uh go to uh a Samsung restored that is on the website itself sign up for Samson Restored or just uh just sign up for a free discovery call.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:00

Yeah all of that information we're gonna have in the session the the notes for this podcast but I also want to just say that I feel like a lot has happened in our society where men coming from women they're um kind of being talked about and men are doing it too with women but it's just like really highlighted that women are like angry at men and talking about men. It's just like really negative. And I just want the men to know that there are a lot of women who really value men like you know who they are you know the way that they're made and uh not to give up hope in that because it's real.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:45

Maybe it's not you know our society's not like showing that but you know the we know there's a lot of really good men and even if they're struggling we know that deep inside they all they want to be good men too right yeah absolutely yeah yes and we we talked about the toxicity before you know as far as dysfunction that that there's big money made uh off of people's dysfunction and so this is the when we talk about the gender war that's a classic example of dysfunction and so it becomes very uh popular and even profitable uh to to to to to for your video to go viral uh whatever the case may be and just going in on the men and the men going in on women uh and and and and just beating one another up like punching bags as opposed to let me take a look at that man or that woman in the mirror what do I need to do to change why do I find myself in the same type of relationships over and over again whether you're male or female yes it's the same man all of these guys are dogs okay there's a reason why it's the same I don't trust them they they they they go diggers I mean it is I I can't trust them at all okay there's a reason why and so we have to get down to the common denominator of why these things these cycles these patterns exist in our lives so we can move into a healthy place.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:19

I love what you're saying because um we're just so quick to look outward instead of inward and one of this I have this practice I do that I'm telling it all today but this thing that I do where whatever it doesn't matter if it's a you know an employee or a uh you know a friend or whoever whoever somebody who comes in my life or a man what happens is I will if I have any discomfort in regard to whatever that relational situation is the first thing I ask myself is like oh what is that what is that reflecting back to me about me what is it what are the quant like the the darkness I see in you is the darkness in me or the light I see in you is the light in me or like what is it about me that this is here now and then I start to notice like oh um I'm I call into my life people who are this this this and this but then they're also this other bad thing. So then I say to myself how come I don't feel worthy enough for this wonderful thing so all these other I feel okay with having all of these qualities how come I don't feel okay with this quality whatever it is and then I ask myself and then look inward and say I don't feel worthy enough for that whatever it is intelligence or someone who you know is whatever you know and then to then look because it's always uh giving us an opportunity to learn and grow instead of being sad and upset all the time like what's wrong with me you know I do that first to come to that realization it takes so much courage to come to that realization that I want to be able to do to do a deep dive concerning myself. Yeah yeah and what's my and instead of settling yes it's and it's just sometimes you know it's easier to settle but it's also like everything's a like an opportunity to grow if you see it that way. Right? It is an opportunity instead of like this these miseries that's after I like talk myself out of it I'm like no you're you this is you're doing great Alison then I'm like okay so what is it about me you know so I think that really whatever we want we just become the person you know we attract what who we are not what we want yes uh there there's there's a lot of truth to that um you know and and I I don't I don't say this to to to uh berate at all but there's a there is a uh there there's a particular pattern and there's a reason why Holly Berry attracts the same type of man yeah it does it doesn't matter about his ethnicity uh his his color his background uh anything but it's always the same man in a different body and so we have to get there's a common denominator here and the same with men we we do the same identical thing as well and so there is something uh not uh pathologically wrong with us uh there's not even a disorder uh there are just there is just something that's out of order yeah that we have to rectify and not uh you know join the um uh the blame gang and just saying yes i understand you know we you know we're throwing the the shots back at the bar what or whatnot at the winery yes you can't trust these men but but we have to get down to the common denominator on why is this yes if you feel that you deserve all of these things that have not been checked off how do you find yourself yet again in this situationship or situationship when you say that you deserve better right because is because inside of you there's some childhood or some experience that's just stuck like it's just a belief system or where we've been wired from our experience just even watching our a mother and father interact like tell you know we don't even realize we're we're we're absorbing that and we're repeating it to fix it like God made us heal to to heal so we like want to make things better we don't even know we're doing it so we're gonna just recreate it again this time I'm gonna fix it and not right yeah that's right so Mr Zion all wonderful good things come to an end yes and I want to tell you that this was a wonderful informative like a really really enjoyable conversation I'm so grateful that you came on and that you shared your time with us and um I just want to thank you so much for being here. I feel like I got so much out of it and you just you're a great man and I just think you're just really wise and I want to thank you. Thank you so much it's been a pleasure and a high honor to to uh to share this platform with you uh I love what you're doing uh and and you know you talk about mission awake I have my sweatshirt on there you go made for the mission yes made for the mission that's right mission awake where's where is my sign oh there it is mission awake yeah that's right hey yes we are yes my comrade thank you so much yes and all the blessings to you and your clients and we will share everything about you