Alison Answers #MissionAwake

Why Strong Women Still Feel Lonely | Angela Goodman on Alison Answers Podcast

• Alison Lager LCSW, CASAC • Episode 206

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Angela Goodman went from looking like she had it all together to realizing she was deeply lonely, driven by approval, and trapped in repeating relationship patterns. In this episode, you’ll see how childhood divorce, emotional neglect, control, and years of over-performing shaped her life and how self-awareness, faith, and pattern recognition helped her finally break free.

You’ll learn how to stop confusing success with healing, why people-pleasing often hides deeper pain, and how the same emotional wounds keep showing up in love, work, and identity until you finally face them.

Watch this if:
👉 You feel successful on the outside but empty on the inside
👉 You keep attracting the same relationship patterns
👉 You struggle with approval, loneliness, or people-pleasing
👉 You want to understand how childhood wounds affect adult choices

You’ll walk away with:
✅ A clearer understanding of how childhood shapes adult relationships
✅ A better way to recognize emotional triggers and repeating patterns
✅ Insight into why overworking and performing can hide deep loneliness
✅ A more honest view of healing, growth, and self-awareness

Connect with Alison:

⚠️ Crisis Resources:
Lager Counseling Services
Call: 516-221-2123
Text: (914) 363-0381
Wantagh: 3408 Park Ave. Wantagh, NY 11793

988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline (24/7, free, confidential)
Call or text 988 | Visit 988lifeline.org

SPEAKER_05

One of my greatest gifts that God gave me is to recognize patterns with people in their life. And so I have this ability to see in someone's life and find the pattern for them.

SPEAKER_03

Angela Goodman is an award-winning entrepreneur, author, podcast host, and creator of Evolve, as well as the visionary behind her 18 minutes catalyst method. Today Angela helps purpose-driven leaders uncover their greatest gifts, remove what's holding them back, and turn vision into aligned action. Real results and lasting impact.

SPEAKER_05

Look at everything that happens to us in our lives as a gift. If you are in physical danger or in physical harm, that's a relationship you don't need to be in. There's been times in my life where I have definitely thought about wanting to take my own life for sure. You just also have to not give up on yourself. You have to be committed at all costs. What people don't always realize is that.

SPEAKER_03

With over 25 years of experience in business, leadership, financial strategy, and operations, she has built, scaled, and advised companies across industries, including HVAC and Entrepreneurial Adventures. She first stepped onto a stage as a lead in IELTS by Eugene O'Neill. And she's been commanding rooms ever since. Today Angela helps purpose-driven leaders uncover their greatest gifts, remove what's holding them back, and turn vision into aligned action, real results, and lasting impact. And without any further ado, here she is. Hey guys, how are you today? It is Allison from Allison Answers and Lager Counseling Services. As you know, I introduced Angela Goodman to you previously. And now here she is. Angela is not only all of the wonderful things that I described, but she's also a true blue and good friend to me for many, many years. And um, I feel very honored to have Angela on the show and for her to share with you um her experience, strength, and hope. Because what you'll hear is you'll hear her life experiences and how she overcome, overcame these life experiences and continued to build and create and expand. So this podcast, I would say, would be for a person who needs to know that they can keep on keeping on and that they can, in spite of circumstances, find hope and um achievement and greatness. And that is both of our missions. So without any further ado, welcome, Angela.

SPEAKER_05

Oh, thank you, Alison. I just love you. Like, I I and when I when I I hate being on camera because I just want to like snuggle you, right? But anyway, let's cuddle. I know I'm honored to be on here. So thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_03

I keep hoping the first form is gonna, you know, they're gonna like uh say, Hey, oh, you know what?

SPEAKER_05

Let me should drop it, we should drop it to Andy and be like, here you go, here you go, Andy. We do and I'll just start sponsoring.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, it's purple though, but it looks blue. I love the purple and the blue. Anyhow, who knows?

SPEAKER_05

Who knows? It could happen, it's manifested.

SPEAKER_03

Let's do it. So, Angela, tell let's start at your your life story, you know, the way where you began and the significant parts of your life that you feel have been influential in creating who you are today and the success you have today. So tell us a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_05

Okay. Um, you know, it I've spent the last probably six years really working on myself internally. So what a lot of what I'm gonna tell you comes from a point of awareness that I did not have six years ago.

SPEAKER_04

Love it.

SPEAKER_05

So yeah, so six years ago, I've I was very much a victim. Six years ago, I was very much in my feelings. If I if people were um, I felt like people were judging me, but what I know to be true now is that they never were. Um, I come from a you know broken home. My parents divorced when I was eight. I have six siblings, they're all half siblings, I don't have any full-blood siblings. Um, and I lost my younger, older brother about three years ago to overdose. And he struggled his whole life um with narcotics. I mean, hard narcotics and alcohol. And so growing up, when I was young before my parents divorced, he was in the house with us at the age of 16. And so he had started kind of this behavior, wild behavior back in his teen years. Um, and he started the hard drugs around that time too. So there was this whole, there was this whole divorce that happened with my parents where I felt responsible uh for the divorce. I feel like when we're children, and especially between the ages of eight and 10, we start to really form those memories of emotion and love and separateness from our parents. And when my parents got divorced, I was happy because they fought a lot, but I felt responsible for it because they didn't know any better. Like I couldn't fix it, if that makes any sense.

SPEAKER_02

Yes, it makes a lot of sense.

SPEAKER_05

So so as I was growing up from the ages of eight to 15, when my mom got remarried, my sister, who lived with us, was very she when when my parents had divorced, she was 13. And so she acted out in every single way because her entire life at the age of 13 went topsy turvy and she had been on the cheerleading teams and she was like the popular kid at school and she had done all the things. And when my parents got divorced, we moved. And so she had to go to a whole new school. She became, you know, a product of divorce, right? So she was very wild and acted out a lot. So me in the ages of eight to 15, I was the peacekeeper. I was the one who was like, I'm gonna do everything right, I'm gonna get good grades, I'm gonna not cause any issues, I don't want to be part of the struggle for my mom. Um, and so I like learned to do nothing but people please for that long. And I can look back with that perspective and see that now. I didn't know that then.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_05

Um, and no one, in my opinion, then was there for me the way I was there for everyone else. So I feel very lonely. So I spent most of my most of my early childhood and into adult years feeling a lot of loneliness. And I spent a lot of time trying to get affirmation from men because of that. Um, and so my life has kind of been like this great, amazing. Like I go out, I perform, you know, everywhere I work, I get awards, every business I've had has gotten some type of awards. And it's it was a lifetime of performance in order to receive accolades, love, and attention from my parents because I didn't get it growing up because they were embroiled in their own things. And I also, you know, made a lot of decisions in my life because I was not close with God at that time in my life that um sacrificed myself. Um, and now I know better. But to your point, like I achieved and I performed and I did the things. And so from the outside looking in, Angela always had her shit together. Angela was always, you know, doing amazing things. Angela was always this. Angela, you know, went got through college and got a degree in chemical engineering and got a master's degree and did all of the things and everything looked perfect, but inside I was crushed, right? So that's like the backstory of where I come from.

SPEAKER_03

Um I have um I could I can highlight so much of that being the therapist that I am, you know. So I have to be careful not to go too hard.

SPEAKER_05

I don't care. I mean, I'm gonna look, I'm an open book. I mean, my goal is to help people come from where I was to the awareness of where I am today.

SPEAKER_03

See, the biggest thing we see here at Lager Counseling Services, and also I've seen in my own life, it's like you're telling my story very similarly. Um, because the biggest addiction for me was approval and like people to think that, you know, I had it together, that I was pretty, that I, you know, everything just because I felt so like such a core sense of shame inside of me, just so solid. Like it was like didn't it was such a part of me that I didn't even know it was a part of me. So, and I just you know, the things that you just talked about was loneliness and a victim mentality, right? And um a peacekeeper. Yeah, and we see so much. I feel like one of the largest ills just anywhere is the victim mentality. This is I'm this is happening to me, but then people pleasers act like they're not victims too. So like they'll feel like victims, but then they'll shine, they'll shine like they're not. Right? Isn't that interesting?

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, I think it's you know, for me, I in my experience, um looking back, I had a lot of um, I had a lot of guilt in there too, because my my mom especially was a person who would say to me, You're so selfish. She would tell me I was selfish. And I was like, wait, but I'm doing everything for everybody else. You know, I was living my life for her approval. And when I would choose to do something she was unaware of, I was selfish. And then when I got married, it was the same thing. It was kind of always like she was like, Oh, you know, she liked my husbands better than she liked me, was like kind of the feeling that I got, you know, at the time. But now knowing where she came from and being able to look back at, you know, what she went through and where her parents were not emotionally available to her. Like I completely understand and have empathy for why she treated me the way she did then. What do you think about how they've come out of it?

SPEAKER_03

What do you think the reason was that she identified you as selfish? Because there's there's some payoff in there. You know, there's a like when you're identifying, like if you look at family systems, as like the children are labeled, um, they're identified in this um category, you know, the hero, the I always think the peacekeeper is partly the hero, you know, and the here, those roles or the scapegoat could be the drug addict, right? And it's like it's we always see that when kids come in here, they're the identified patient. And we know that it's a family system issue, that they're just the one um covering up by their behavior, they're covering up the actual problems. So if you could be the selfish one, what did that do for your family? And you may not like to think of it right away, but what is that?

SPEAKER_05

Well, I'll tell you, I'll tell you with her specifically what it is. Um, because I for my sister, I was I was the goody two shoes, right? So it was like I had different roles based on based on the human. And with my mom, um my father prioritized everything in his life and other women over her. And I look a lot like my dad, and we have similar similar mannerisms. And so there was, I believe, for her, this connection of me to him that it was like she just couldn't shake.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Um, she's very smart and had always kind of relied on men in her life. So one of her big things for me was I want you to go to college and get a degree so you don't have to rely on a man to pay your way. Um, and also I was living something that she wanted for herself because she was never able to do that for herself. So it was kind of like I was selfish because I was doing things that she was not able to do for herself. And so that's where that came from with her.

SPEAKER_03

That's interesting. And you know what? Um, I'm not sure if this relates to that, but I in my situation, the way to get close to my mother was to be a victim to have a major problem. Because but you couldn't be successful in her eyes because then you didn't you didn't get the same kind of love.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, yeah. And I I would say for my mom, as far as that went, I think, you know, she she definitely um wanted to control the choices I made. Um, and it wasn't that she didn't want me to be successful, it was that she wanted that success for herself.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

So if I did something that she didn't control or I made a choice that wasn't something she would have originated, then I got, then I got the heat for that.

SPEAKER_04

Wow.

SPEAKER_05

You know, and she she has is fairly, I mean, I you know, I love my mother, so I don't want anybody to think that I don't, I but I love her to pieces, but I see who she is now. I see her for for how her life has been. And she has made choices to not do some of the growth, the journey that I've done, and that's okay, right? Um, but looking at the situation now, I can I can very clearly see why also it would terrify her for me to make these choices to do what I want to do with my life because it's like I'm leaving her behind.

SPEAKER_03

100%. Yes. Yeah, it feels super threatening. You know, it's interesting because we're parents. So like we can understand as a parent that we have to, you know, our greatest mission is to launch our children into their own lives and not, you know, as a you know, as an extension of us, but as their own person. So I have had those little emotional internal feelings like, oh, she's leaving me, you know, my daughter Grace. Like she's like, she's she's blossoming. But I immediately tell myself, you know, that's what's supposed to happen, and it's wonderful, but she's not doing it with me. Just like, yeah, because but it's okay. But I guess someone who's not aware, self-aware, that you know, there's no we can understand that, you know, if you're not self-aware, you're just gonna want to stop it, right?

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, it's funny because it was easier for my mom, my mom didn't, and my stepdad did not help me go to college. Like they they paid for me to go, they paid half, my dad paid half. They didn't move me to school. It was four and a half hours of the way, so they didn't even help me pack the car. Like I packed the car myself, drove the car there, and moved myself into college. It was like, it was like that was too much for her, you know. That was overboard, like having to actually do that. And I look back on that now and I think about my own girls and my oldest is in college. And I'm like, I would never, like, I would never do that. Um, but what I what I can say is that when I was raising my girls, I said one of the greatest gifts my mom ever gave me was the gift of independence.

SPEAKER_04

Oh, yes.

SPEAKER_05

And she did allow for me to learn independence. I mean, I was doing my own laundry at the age of eight. Like there were there were just things that that she gave me skill set-wise because of how she was that that gave me this sense of independence. Cause when my girls were growing up, I used to tell them, and I it was for me, it was kind of a joke, but not really. But I used to tell them when you're 18, you have to move out or you got to pay me rent. You don't get a choice, right? Like I wanted to raise, I wanted to raise my girls to be independent and kind of be on their own. And my oldest is 20 now. And when she got to be 18, she told me, she says, I'm gonna go move down with my dad. I want to go to school down there and I'm gonna move out. And I said, Well, what where are you going?

SPEAKER_03

You didn't realize the power of your words, right?

SPEAKER_05

And she said to me, Well, for my whole life, you've told me when I was 18, I either had to pay rent or move out. So I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go live three hours away because that's where I want to live for a little while. And I was like, wait a minute, I didn't really mean it. I just want you living off of me. Yeah, I didn't want you living off of me for your whole life, but like I didn't really mean for you to get out.

SPEAKER_03

Yes, that's so cute. Yeah, so you know, the things that we're talking about, one of the things that I wondered about the things that you're saying, like these experiences of you know, with your mom or feeling guilty, how do you see that in your adult life tying into maybe triggers or additional problems? And then how it strengthened you to become um, you know, how did it become part of your success?

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So it's like one bounce and then the next bounce. Well, I'll tell you.

SPEAKER_05

So one of the things that's been with the awareness I have today, one of the things that has been most difficult for me is my my mom is a control freak, like she is. And I thought that was normal, right? Because that's what I grew up with. So I thought my I my have this goal to help people. And so I thought my helping people was helpful to them, but I was doing it in a way that I had learned from my mom, which felt instead to the people around me like I was trying to control what they were doing.

SPEAKER_03

So too helpful.

SPEAKER_05

Yes, yes, too helpful, too helpful. And and I will say, one of my greatest gifts that God gave me is to recognize patterns with people in their life. And so I have this ability to see in someone's life and find the pattern for them. And I have to recognize that people need to learn that on their own. Because what I did for 20 years of my life is be like, oh, oh, I got a solution, I got a fix. I know what's going on. I can see the patterns, I can see the things and all of that. And I would offer that up. And then people will be like, uh, no, I don't need you in my life. Like, go away.

SPEAKER_03

That's so interesting. Do you know? I wonder, you probably know your human design. Are you a projector seer?

SPEAKER_05

No, so I actually am a manifesting generator, but I'm a six-two. So I'm a I'm a half my life learned experience, the other half of my life teach experience. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Interesting. Because a projector seer, like I'm a projector seer, so you'll see things that and you're here to you see things, but people aren't ready to know them. So then, and they talk about that in Kabbalah as when you over share even something good with someone where they're not receptive to it, they call it the bread of shame. Yeah, yeah, people get mad, they get mad at you.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. Well, ironically, so I when I got into human design about five years ago, um, I had my friend who's an amazing human design reader, I had her take pull charts for my whole family. So I had her pull for my kids.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

And my oldest is a projector seer. And my but the problem with her, when projector seers aren't living in their design, they invite themselves into the situation instead of being invited by the other person. So my daughter was that way. Like everything when she was growing up, everything she saw, she threw in my face, right? That's just a part of what she's designed to do.

SPEAKER_00

Yes.

SPEAKER_05

Um, and as her mother, I was like, uh, you're the kid, like, I don't want this.

SPEAKER_03

Right. Right. You know, makes sense. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

But yeah, we need to be invited and allow that to happen and not jump in, right? Yeah. So you as so as you see like the the different experiences you had with your mom where you felt lonely or guilty or like a victim, how did that translate into relationships later on in your life? Did you you saw those patterns, right?

SPEAKER_05

Oh, yeah. So I I would say, you know, when I was in my early teen years, um, you know, I love for me was defined by attention. Like that was it. If my parents gave me attention, then they loved me.

SPEAKER_03

Could you define attention? Tell tell us what you mean by what is attention?

SPEAKER_05

Um, talking to me, spending time with me, um, you know, being engaged in conversation or being engaged in doing something together. So when I was growing up, you know, my dad was working a ton. He had, I don't know how many girlfriends on the side. That's a whole nother story altogether. And my mom was uh I found out later in life. I found out later in life. Yeah, my mom told me all the things later in life, all the things I want to know. Um, and so he was doing his thing, and my mom was having to, after the divorce, work full time. And she had been a stay at home mom prior to that. So for me, my mom nor my dad told me they loved me. Neither one of them actually said those words. It was just wasn't something that they did. And so I associated them spending time with me. Um With love. Like that's what love was equated to for me. So as I was growing up, I was just looking for someone to spend time with me. And so it got me into a bit of a pickle in my early teenage years. Um, I started, I essentially got groomed by somebody who was in their 20s. And um, and that lasted for probably six or eight months. And and then, you know, I had boyfriends all through high school. Most of them were long-term, but you know, and they were good guys, like they were great guys. They were never bad. I never was in a situation where I wanted that love or attention from a guy who was a bad guy. Like I that wasn't my thing. That's it. They were good people, they were good people. And at the same time, I felt like being pretty and and being attractive and being cute and being smart and all of those things was going to get me the kind of love I wanted to have. Yes. And so my first, my first marriage. Um, I always say it's funny. He took, it took him seven years to convince me to marry him. Um, he was my mom, like legitimately was my mom, personality-wise. He's very controlling. I mean, he's a great guy, he's a nice guy, he's very capable. We went to college together, that was how we met. Um, we dated on and off for about seven years. And my oldest, that's that's my oldest father, and we got married and it lasted not even a year. Like I we got married and I got pregnant with her, and I knew I was was expecting, and I had her, and it was just like really clear like this if this marriage goes on, Alison, we would have killed one of us would have killed each other legitimately. We were just like two, like we were just like two fireball explosions in the same room. And so I learned through that marriage that like literally that was like being married to my mom because he was trying to control literally everything I did. And that wasn't gonna work out for me. And so I the next marriage was a savior. So, you know, we do these right, we do these growth patterns, and we're like, okay, well, we kind of grow and we learn and we recognize these relationships. And so, you know, I was not aware at this time. I didn't have I didn't have a relationship with God at this time in my life. I was 27, and there was a man that I worked with who was 16 years older than me, married. Um, we spent a lot of time together because we both worked on the same job sites and all of that. And I had gone home to visit my mom with my newborn, my five month old. I knew my husband was gonna be moving out, but he I fell down the stairs at my mom's while I was carrying Morgan and she was only five months old. And I just like slipped on the carpet, you know, it was 6 30 in the morning and I lost my footing. And when I fell down the stairs, I like pitched her forward so that I wouldn't land on top of her.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

I ended up breaking my foot and she ended up with a skull fracture.

SPEAKER_02

Oh my God.

SPEAKER_05

And so I called, I called my first husband and said, um, this has just happened and, you know, I've got to go to the hospital, um, leaving the baby with my mom. So while I was at the hospital, my mom called and she said, she's not stopping crying. Like she's continual, like she hasn't stopped crying. So we I get casted up, we rush her to the children's hospital to find out that she had a double skull fracture. And so I called my husband at the time and I said, This is what's going on. Like, you need to come. Like, I'm I'm like, what is gonna happen to the baby? Like, I'm devastated. I'm you know, I'm not I'm I'm in shock just from all of the things that have happened, right? And he didn't come. He didn't come. He said he wasn't gonna come. And he had work to do and he wasn't gonna come. He was like five hours away. And I said, Well, my foot's broken, like I can't drive myself home. So at some point, you need to come. So eventually he showed up. Um, but that was the end of the marriage for me. And so when I went back to work and told everybody at work what had happened, then this man who later turned into my second husband was like, you know, wanting to take care of me because I hadn't been taken care of.

SPEAKER_02

Got it.

SPEAKER_05

And so then I found myself in another relationship of somebody who wanted to be a savior to me, and and that's kind of his MO and where he was. And we were married for 16 years, and he's a great man, and we also have a daughter together. So I found myself in all these relationships with great men, and at the same time, I was still so internally broken that I wasn't good in those relationships myself.

SPEAKER_03

In what way?

SPEAKER_05

Well, I felt very lonely. I felt very lonely in all of the relationships, to be honest with you. Um, just because I hadn't found I hadn't found myself well enough to know what it was that I actually wanted and needed from my relationship. And I was so busy performing in my career. So, you know, I didn't at the time I was married to my first husband, I had a career I was building at a Fortune 50 company, I was running a community theater, I was doing plays and shows um in my spare time. I had just had a baby, like I right? You laugh because I was like, I was running away from life with all of the work, right? And lonely. So yeah, and lonely. And then um, because he and I just couldn't get on the same page. And then in my second marriage, I had I I had was with that company and I grew in that company to an executive role and then decided that the company wasn't wasn't fulfilling me, so quit that, and then got into business for myself and then created like four more businesses because it was just easier to be busy. And oh, by the way, I played uh tennis at least six or seven times a week, and you know, and here I've got these little kids. Like I was running away from me without even realizing I was running away from me. If I could perform and be best in everything I was doing, then that was what I needed to do. If everybody thought my life was put together, then that's what I needed to do. But inside I was so devastatingly lonely. And I and I figured it out and I and because I kept I kept changing my life, Alison. Like I would change careers, change jobs, change things that were going on because I was unhappy and I was lonely, and I thought that was the problem. Yes, but I was really lonely inside my marriage.

SPEAKER_03

Yes. You know how many, uh, I'm sure that probably everyone listening can relate to this on some level because because I think that the majority of humans do not, we're not taught, or it's not even out there that much, the value of understanding that any lack, there's there's no lack within us when we're with ourselves. Yeah. And the and the lack outside has no relevance.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Right. So it's like this, you know, I I have this practice that I do when I get to the door and I say, if I feel the energy of that I'm going to get something and I'm leaving with lack, I'm going out there, whatever it is, work. And a lot of days I do. But I say, you know what? There's all that I need is within me right now.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_03

And I think about you, like that little girl, eight, nine years old, that lonely girl. And I would, I would even extend that earlier for a few reasons. I'm sure you've already recognized. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05

I did a whole, I did a whole life regression study with myself a few years back. And and and lonely and angry were like, those were my words for legitimately my whole life.

SPEAKER_03

Yes.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

You know what's interesting? Oh, God, there's so many things I want to say, but the lonely, the lonely part, I think I see the little girl, right? So then here you're in this adult body running from her weight, her sitting there lonely, right? And just reintegrating with her is actually the solution. And God, of course. So it's like the other thing, go. I'm I mean, it just stood out to me is that you said you were the the one, all of your siblings were half siblings, correct?

SPEAKER_05

Correct.

SPEAKER_03

So then you were the one, you were the only sibling that was not a a part of what they were all a part of. You were just like a half part of it. Is that the way it was? You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_05

So my so my dad had four children before he met my mom.

SPEAKER_03

Got it.

SPEAKER_05

So they were and then my mom had one child before she met my dad.

SPEAKER_03

Got it.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So then that that four was a grouping, right? That they had like they shared this.

SPEAKER_05

Well, when my dad and my mom got together, the two boys came to live with us because they were they were trouble. So the two boys came to live with us because their mom was like, I can't handle them. So they came to live with us, and then the girls stayed with their mom. So I never lived with those two half-sisters. Yeah. I would see them at like Christmas and stuff. My dad would would take us to his side of the family, and I would see them at like Christmas and holidays and things, but we never actually lived together.

SPEAKER_03

Wow. Okay. Yeah. So now back to what we're saying about the whole, you know, that loneliness, lonely and angry. I have this other thing I want to ask you about that, and then we'll talk about it.

SPEAKER_05

Well, and I will say this too. So my my next closest in age sibling is five years older than me.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_05

So even that, right? Even that was a pretty big age gap. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And for she ran away at the age of 16. I was 11. So so I was and only for the last eight years.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

I mean, that does the positioning of the family does make such a difference, right? Yeah. So, in regard to like, you know, the feelings that we've felt the most, like the feelings that we've rehearsed throughout our whole childhood, and then we bring them into our adulthood, that that becomes our chemistry. And then when we move away from that chemistry, like let's say you're not lonely, you feel fulfilled, right? Then our everything around us, our body, what we see will draw us back to this homeostasis, this baseline of loneliness, because it's it's our body believes that's the safest state. So it's like being able to overcome that so that you know you don't keep returning. I think under times of stress, we end up returning to those old, you know, states. The wounds.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Like if they if they are not healed, and and we don't ever get to a hundred percent healed, that's my opinion. But if those particular wounds are not healed to the point where where you've done the work to work through them and they don't show up anymore in the ways that they did. I mean, when I when I got divorced from my second husband, and you know, I about a year later I met Matt, who is the person I'm meant to be with. But in the first year of our relationship together, all of those loneliness, all of the attention, all of that wounding was like front and center for me.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, in your career, but thankfully, you mean is that what you mean? Yeah, yeah, in the beginning of it, yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Like, and thankfully, thankfully, because of the work and the growth and the things that that we have both done, yes, um, you know, thankfully I could see that yeah and be like, oh wait, I don't want this for myself anymore. And it and it added like I found a partner who lives 1800 miles away. If I want to feel lonely, I found one that's going to make me feel lonely regardless, right? Yes. And so when that core wound would open up in the beginning of our relationship, Allison, it was ugly. Like what would you do? What would you feel? How you know? So so funny. Um when we first started dating, he because of his prior relationship, like he was all about me in the beginning, right? He was like, I was the best thing since sliced bread. So every moment of his day, yeah, but every moment of his day, he would be like messaging me, texting me, updating what was going on in his life. And then things got a little crazy for him with his with his life situation, and he didn't communicate as much. And I was like, Oh, does he still like me? And then I would be like lonely, and I would I would call him and I'd be like, What do you why didn't you call me? Why didn't you text me? Why didn't you this? Why didn't you do that? And it and you know, it was all me in those moments, reliving all of that loneliness.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Um, and it and it was probably a good five or six months into the relationship before I I looked at myself and I'm like, girl, like, come on, you crazy. Like this guy's clearly in love with you, yeah. And you don't need to be lonely. And at the time, like my relationship with God had grown so significantly that it was like I could be by myself and be by myself. Yes, yes, and be with God. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So those um, those moments that as you identify as crazy, I'm not saying that, but those those moments like that when you when you feel that raw old feeling, um you know, I mean, I know you know, that the reason that you guys were able able to overcome that is because you became you're aware of it, you saw it, you looked in. So I just want to highlight that in terms of anyone who's listening, that if you start one of the things I do, if I start to notice a bad feeling, whatever it is, you know, state of being, I'll ask myself, when have I felt this way before? How often do I feel this way? Because it's just a different cast of characters that we we will will blame outwardly about an internal situation and try to tinker around outside to try to fix this internal issue. But when we can take our big but then we'll say, Oh, this situation's different, that's different, but it's not because we're the same person. So it's like for you, you're able to identify and you that your light shined on this poor, this lonely girl. Yeah, right? Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. I mean, and he was the he was the the solution to her in until he was until you recognized he wasn't.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Oh yeah, because I mean he totally fed into you know all of that need for affirmation and for love and somebody telling me they loved me and paying attention to me and being engaged with me. And um, you know, I I won't forget, I won't forget how I was at the beginning of our relationship and credit him with the patience of working through that.

SPEAKER_02

You mean when you're gonna be able to do that?

SPEAKER_05

He never gave up, he yeah, yeah, because I gave up on him a lot. Yeah, like he was going through his own things and he was working through his own conditioning that he's gotta work through. And but he never quit on me. Yeah, but I quit on him all the time.

SPEAKER_03

It's probably so scary for you, that's why. Well, you know what?

SPEAKER_05

I just didn't want to feel that way. And I thought and I thought if I wasn't with him, I wouldn't feel that way, Alex. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02

Exactly.

SPEAKER_05

That's what I thought. And then I started looking at, okay, wait a minute, let me let me triangulate this, right? And I'd been in this relationship with a man prior to meeting to meeting my my current my current beau Matt. And I'd been in this relationship, and I started I started triangulating it when Matt and I were dating. I'm like, wait a minute, this is the same thing that the guy before Matt used to complain to me about.

SPEAKER_03

He would complain you needing.

SPEAKER_05

Well, he was very successful. He communicated with me a ton, like we talked a lot, like we had a lot of things in common. And um, but there would be times where he had a million things going on, and so he didn't make time for me. And um, you know, he would complain that I needed too I needed too much communication. And he would complain, you know, so those were complaints that had literally just been voiced to me by another human. I'm like, wait a minute, there's something to this right here. Yeah, there's something to my need for this that is that, and I crazy is a bad word, but there's something to my need for this that makes it not necessary, you know. And so I spent time working on that and kind of delving into that for myself because to your point, until we have the sense of awareness of these things that we're doing, like I don't want to feel that way. And I would get to, I mean, the anxiety is miserable and the mind racing is horrible, and the the continual loop of telling yourself that you're not enough, and that's why somebody's not communicating with you, and and nobody wants to live that suffering. No, and and what I recognize now that I didn't know then was that it literally was a choice in those moments where I was liver living that suffering for myself. I literally could have choose to turn the loop off.

SPEAKER_03

You know, there is no shortage, which you know, of women who are feeling that way right now, absolutely a lifetime of it because how many you can just see it everywhere. You see it in love songs, and just like and even men identifying women as crazy because of this, right? And it becoming like this battle of the sexes. So I'm I'm gonna segue after, but not yet, because I want about the masculine and feminine, because I want to talk to you about that. But with that, with that, like you think about you're having this state. What would you say? Because I'm sure that someone listening is feeling this way.

SPEAKER_05

Oh, is is oh, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03

Like, how many women feel this way? And it's a lot of young women feel this way, and older too. But like, what would you say to them? And you know, I remember being really young and feeling that feeling, and people would say wise things to me, and I couldn't, even though I kind of knew it was wise, it just didn't feel like I could ever be that, you know. Yeah, so I'm wondering what you would say to someone who's just feeling this the the cr the the loop in the mind and they can't stop thinking over and over. It's it's a thing.

SPEAKER_05

So um the the clients that I work with, what I what I request for them to do is to think about other times that they've felt exactly this way.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_05

So where else in your life have you felt exactly this way? And write it down. Write down when it was because chances are it was not just with a romantic interest, it was with a friend or a coworker or a parent or some other relationship in your life where this same physical feeling has bubbled up for you so that then you can determine where the pattern is, and then you can make the choice to heal that wound. But until you fully identify what it is and where it came from, it makes it really difficult to heal it.

SPEAKER_03

And it's so, it's so the repetition of it that's not recognized is so difficult to live with. I'm gonna I'm gonna throw just an example out there that doesn't have to do with a romantic relationship. So I started noticing that I was repeatedly having the same angry, internally angry and resentful feelings toward like different employees. No one now, so I don't want anyone to think it's them now. No one. Yeah, no, good. So just you know, over the like maybe over the last uh 10 years, I noticed it. So I would notice, and then but the the beginning thoughts were like, wow, you know, I just can't seem to hire the person, right? And then I was like, you know what? I'm so tired of feeling, and then I would be, I then I'm like, let me apply what I ask other people to apply. Where have I, what is let me isolate this feeling? So it's this anger, and what am I angry at? Incompetence. And then what was I mostly angry about in my life? Neglect and incompetence, people not doing shit, people not taking care of shit, like in my home, like when I was growing up, like I saw my mother as like just not competent. I couldn't trust her to complete something or make sure I was okay. So all this time, I think I was drawing people like that to me in order to heal. But yeah, well, I saw it, I was like, you know what? Now I did have to let people go, but what but now understanding it, I was then able to not hire in the same way because I'm going to now I know that I have this that I have to address, obviously, and and doing the work to address that with what all those stuck feelings with my mom.

SPEAKER_05

What you said is so great because what people don't always realize is that we get these relationships placed in our life on purpose.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, yes.

SPEAKER_05

We come here with a contract to heal our soul, right? So we've already replaced or we've already placed these relationships in our path to do exactly what you said so that we can face it, see it, and heal it.

SPEAKER_00

Yes.

SPEAKER_05

So if you have a relationship like that in your life, you say to yourself, okay, this is a healing moment for me. What do I need to do to heal myself through this actual relationship?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

And then you don't run from it.

SPEAKER_03

Yes. And you know what I love also? It's like, it's like, I thank you, whoever the person is. It's like in your own soul, you're like, I thank you for being here. Thank you for illumining because they're illuminating a part of your heart that is so dark and ugly that you're just fucking running from forever. Like, like, do I want to see that? No, do I want to remember that like the new, you know, right? But and I think a lot of us, because think about it, I'm I'm a therapist my whole adult life. I've done so much work on myself, through myself, blah, blah, blah. And then I'm I'm like thinking I arrived. And I'm like, no, you have not, you know. There is no arrival. There is no arrival.

SPEAKER_05

We're like onions, just keep pulling the dang layers back.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

I just ask, this is what I do think. I don't think you convince me not. I think you'll agree. So, like, people will come in your life, right? But then during that process of them being in the life and this, whatever you're feeling, and then you were, but then when you do a different thing, like you just do a different thing than you would have done in the previous situation. You do this different thing, right? That suddenly I've noticed, I see it like almost like a centrifuge. Like the person just flips, like out of your life. Like all of a sudden, they're just like gone. And you're like, I still want another dimension. Am I in another frequency? Like, no, you did what you were supposed to do.

SPEAKER_05

That was the reward, Alison, for for seeing it and acknowledging it and healing it. And then it's like, that's your reward. Now you just get to be without it.

SPEAKER_03

I'll be like this, though. I'll be like this. Is that gonna come back? Like, what is it behind me? Wait, like, am I gonna like do this again? Because I don't want to do it again, right? I mean, you might like I don't want to draw that to me again. Yeah, you know, so back to you. Anyhow, love the conversation because I relate to all of it. Oh, yeah, and yeah, so now, how as you're experiencing these difficult, you know, these different difficulties, recognizing that they are you, it's just yeah, like everything's us, we're responsible for the three feet around us. So now, and we also have, and I um, I'm pretty clear in your situation, you have a human being whom I happen to know very well, who is like probably being triggered at the same time because that's the beautiful magic of God's love. Like, that's how iron sharpens are in certain things. What did we just say?

SPEAKER_05

That's why you get relationships, right? Is to heal the things. So, so there has been no one in my life who could trigger me more than him. And there's been no one in his life that could trigger him more than me. But when we first started, well, but when we first started dating, tell me we called each other cat five hurricanes, like legitimately. We would get spun up and we would both be like cat five hurricanes at each other. So legitimately. Yeah, and also so necessary. It was necessary, and thankfully, God put things in our life so we wouldn't quit.

SPEAKER_03

You know, I want to ask you about that because I'm sure people are listening who, because I know both of you, and you're both wonderful. So I'm sure people who could be listening also may be in a situation where there's cat five hurricanes, but they're not to stay. They have to, they have to not be in that, even though they're triggered, because the relationship is not it's not good for them, right? Yeah, so like what I'm identifying as what's different with you guys, you know better than I do, but I am thinking is that you have two aware people, aware and willing people, yes, willing to look at themselves, willing to grow and change individually, that that to me is the that's the dividing line.

SPEAKER_05

Yes. And so for so, you know, having been through right two marriages prior to this, one of the things I said before I met Matt, my list of what I wanted, right? Yeah, said someone who is willing to grow every day.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

And not just look at me and point a finger, but also point the finger back to themselves, right? And then I have to be that partner too. Like I can't expect him to do that and then me not do that. So to your point, that's the reason why we have, you know, been able to get to the point that we are in our relationship. Like we we've dealt with more than some people who have been married 50 years will deal with, you know, in two and a half year time frame. And because of that, what I recognize is number one, people have to be able to want to and be willing to grow every single day because it never stops. And then on top of that, you also have to be able to choose love because there's going to be times where you absolutely don't love each other. Yeah, there's just gonna be times where that happens, and so it becomes a conscious cognitive choice. Yes, and then on top of that, you just also have to not give up on yourself.

SPEAKER_02

Yes.

SPEAKER_05

Because if you are if you are quasi-committed to growth, you will quit. You have to be committed at all costs. And I would say to anybody, I would say to anybody who's struggling with relationships of this kind, if you are in physical danger or in physical harm, that's a relationship you don't need to be in. So don't be in that relationship. Like it's okay to walk away from that relationship. Um, because that means that the other person chooses violence over growth. Even if they say they're committed to growing.

SPEAKER_03

I think, you know, um I also think like if you're attempting to communicate with someone and they are not able, you know, they're only able to like attack or defend, and that's like all they can do without, you know, I've I've seen that so much, like, you know, because it's just in marriage counseling that until people can move away from those two things, attack, defend, attack, defend, because somehow people don't are afraid to be wrong, or afraid to have made a mistake, or afraid for someone else to not be pleased with them, you know.

SPEAKER_05

And I mean, I I will say for us, um, and I don't think he would care about me saying this, yeah. Um, that was his choice. He was a ch chose to defend that was part of his core identity for himself because of conditioning he had early on in life.

SPEAKER_03

And or he recognized it, right?

SPEAKER_05

It took time, it took time in in working with somebody who helped him to see it. Yeah, and then it took time for me not to call it out all the time. You know what I mean? Because legitimately, when you are when you are each other's trigger, I'm gonna definitely gonna say something where you feel like you need to defend yourself. My brain works at a million miles an hour, and I'm gonna pick something apart, and you're gonna feel the need to defend yourself. And and so I had to get to the point where if I saw the defense mechanism coming, that instead of instigating it heavier, I had to be like, okay, I got to get out of this conversation because otherwise it does this.

SPEAKER_03

There's nowhere, it can't go anywhere.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. So you have to choose to actively be looking for that and then also be willing to allow your own ego to get out of the conversation. And there would be times where we'd be in the middle of a fight about something. He's like, You're always ejecting, you're always ejecting. I'm like, I would have to be like, No, I'm not ejecting. It was like, bite my tongue, I'm not ejecting. We just need to not talk to each other right now.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, you're just being composed and you're not escalating it, right? Yeah, I mean, that's very important. You know, I won't, I won't scream and yell ever. Like, I'm not gonna do that. So, like for me, like to me, I feel like a conversation can be had, right? That it can be had, right? So if if someone yells at me, I'm I'm not in that conversation. Like, I'm even if I'm sitting there, I'm not in the conversation. Turn it off. Yeah, I'm not because there there's nowhere for that to go except for harm and like like escalation and just making things worse. So to me, yeah, and I and I I probably just for whatever I'm a sensitive person. Just I find that it's like hard for me, like to be yelled at is just yeah.

SPEAKER_05

I mean, I don't know, like I mean, I know a little bit about your life growing up, but you know, I would feel like maybe you were around that when you were younger.

SPEAKER_03

I wasn't around yelling ever.

SPEAKER_05

Oh, I was just neglected. I was good that you weren't around yelling. I was around yelling all the time. So I happen to unfortunately be a yeller.

SPEAKER_03

I was just neglected.

SPEAKER_05

That was normal for me.

SPEAKER_03

To be the dirty girl of the streets. That's all. No, I don't mean I don't mean dirty like that. I meant like literally like a baby pulling in the mud in my backyard, yes, playing with dogs, you know. Yes, yeah. I mean, yeah, and I think you know, that is a that is definitely like a trigger for me, probably, you know. Just if I I feel like if somebody is not rational, that I don't know, create, I just feel anxiety because I know that I'm even if someone's mad, like if you started yelling at me, which I don't think you would, but if you started yelling at me, but we could we were having a rational, we could have a rational interaction, that's cool. Like I wouldn't like it, but if it's you're yelling and can't hear anything and it's totally irrational, to me, that's like it feels so like it makes me I feel so anxious with a situation like that that I don't even want to be near it, you know. That was my life growing up. That was literally my life.

SPEAKER_05

That's why eight-year-old me was like, Thank God they're getting divorced.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, legitimate.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, that was like, but but for me, for me, hashing out a disagreement in that way, well, there wasn't another way to hash out a disagreement.

SPEAKER_03

That makes sense because of what you're describing, yeah. Yeah, I got it. Yeah, so you you saw that that could actually create like a resolution in your mind, you believed that that would really you could do that.

SPEAKER_05

I I guess it wasn't so much that you could create a resolution, but you couldn't you couldn't work through it if you didn't do that.

SPEAKER_02

Uh-huh. Got it. Got it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Like there was no there was no frame of reference where where being quiet was going to work through the problem.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, which was very different. Like, so it's to your point, like when we would argue at the beginning of our relationship, that was one of the challenges because I when I'm convicted and very passionate, like my voice gets loud. And I wouldn't say I don't get irrational in those moments.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Um, but I'm loud, like I'm for sure loud.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

And um, you know, and then he would try to match my loudness, which was unnatural to him because he, like you, grew up in a house where people didn't yell. There was no yelling that happened.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

So oh yeah. This is this relationship has been a a point of healing for both of us in so many different ways.

SPEAKER_03

I love it. I love it because it is really actually true that um things that couldn't be uncovered can be uncovered in that way, you know, which is really wonderful. You know, I see that in marriage counseling all the time. Such a blessing to be, and when people can hear and understand where the other person's coming from, they don't have to fight to be right. It's such a good, such so much freedom. So I want to ask you, because I don't want to leave any of that out. There are th you know, I want to hear about how through your transformation, through this this period of growth, you know, you know, having difficult times, rising back up. I know you had a near-death experience, and I'm I don't know why I'm laughing, it's not actually funny, but um, I mean, I would have rather bought a winning lottery ticket.

SPEAKER_05

Believe me, I would have rather bought a winning lottery ticket than what I had happen. But yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03

I laugh at everything, but anyhow, so what I want to know is because I want to get to your 18-minute catalyst thing. So but we gotta so like let's go to like so I see you as someone who you know you climb out of things, you perform, you do you do, you do excellently, and that you know you'll have a tragedy or whatever it is, and you just continue to climb out. And I feel like I had a very similar similar life, but I believe that that's a a path God gives us, so we so we get it's just heavier muscle uh weights to lift, right? Yeah, yeah. So, and we have a choice of what we do with those weights. So tell us about you know, your ex your I would like to hear about your dear near-death experience and how that transformed you, but you also described being in a deep depression and um losing hope. So if you could just expound on that.

SPEAKER_05

So I at it to be really quick, at the age of 32, I was getting ready to give birth to my second daughter. And I had her, and four days later I couldn't walk. So, what had happened was I ended up with a blood clot in my ovarian vein. And um, very long story short, there was a lot of back and forth to the doctor. They didn't believe what was going on with me. They finally got me in for CAT skins and ran the tests and then freaked out. And um, to the point where I went to the doctor's office, she wanted to come out to the car to tell me what was going on. I opened the door to talk to her. She slams the car door on me and tells me to roll the window down. The doctor, she slams the car door closed. We have the newborn is in the back seat. My oldest is at my mom's, and my husband is driving. Ex-husband, but husband then. And so I roll the window down, and the doctor leans in the window and she looks over at him and she says, She's going to die. I already sent the admitting paperwork over to the hospital. It's you're to take her there right now. You're not to take her home. She's not to pack a bag. Um, she has a blood clot and her ovarian vein, which is like one in 17 million something, something. And um she told us to roll the window up and away we went. And um, so I got admitted to the hospital. And what ended up happening was the clot cut off blood flow to the center part of my body. So my organs were all fighting what was going on, and so I had this infection from like the middle of my abdomen down to the middle of my thighs, and so all of my organs were starting to shut down. And um, I can remember when I was rolled into the hospital, like I just remember that the hallway was so long ahead of me, and she had just said all the things that she said, and I was pretty much catatonic, and I just remember saying to God, and I didn't have a relationship with him at that time, but I remember saying to God, I'm gonna get back out of this hospital. This isn't how this is gonna end. Like I remember saying that. Um, and so I end up there for about five days. They were able to stave off the infection. I was on blood thinners for about three months, and eventually the clock carried and I could walk again, but it took me a long time. But during the course of that going on, my dad didn't come visit me at the hospital. My mom didn't come visit me at the hospital. She was she was with my oldest. So, I mean, you know, she was helping. It wasn't like she wasn't supporting what was going on. And then, of course, I had all the hormonal drop from just having a baby. And um, I couldn't breastfeed, I couldn't pump milk, I couldn't do any of that because all the medications they'd given me, I couldn't do. And so I went into this like really dark place. Um, I really that was a time in my life where I don't think I've ever felt lonelier. And I'd been a I'd been a person who combated loneliness for my whole life, you know, the whole first 32 years I felt lonely. That this was a whole different level of loneliness. And um, you know, I was grateful that my that my husband at the time was able to take care of our daughter, who was four days old. And I was jealous of that relationship.

SPEAKER_01

Of course.

SPEAKER_05

Because here I was, her mom, I couldn't walk, I couldn't change her diaper, I couldn't feed her, I couldn't, there was nothing I could do. Like I literally sat still. He had to help me. This is so embarrassing, but this is what happened. He had to literally help me sit down to go to the bathroom. Yeah, because my body wouldn't bend or move in that way. It was like this, it was like a um dagger was slicing open my insides. So when you cut off circulation, you know what that feeling feels like. Well, when that happens in the middle of your body, it just feels like it feels like there's some kind of rubber band cutting everything off in there. Um, yeah. So I I was in a pretty deep depression. My work was fighting with me because I was only supposed to have eight weeks of leave and they didn't believe me because I mean, like this doesn't happen, you know what I mean? You go there, you have a baby, and then instead everybody believes that you know you're lying because you want more time off. Well, no, that's not true.

unknown

Right.

SPEAKER_05

Um, so I was fighting with them about that, and it was kind of uh, so it was not good. And I was there for I was the heaviest of my life. I think I weighed probably 230 pounds um after all of that happened because I couldn't get out and move and exercise or do any of that stuff.

SPEAKER_03

So yeah, it was a lot. You know, the helplessness, you know what's interesting to me, just stands out is that with your first child, when you fell, oh yeah, you couldn't walk. And then again, like you couldn't walk.

SPEAKER_05

No, I never I never even coordinated the the walking impairment with the first one and then the second one. That one was five months in instead of five days, but yeah.

SPEAKER_03

But interesting, five days, five months. The you know, the thing, and you were 32, by the way. Yeah, yeah. So uh anyhow, what I'm thinking, yeah, when you when you zoom out and you look at that and you just from this conversation, you're running and running, and that was your solution, you know, to loneliness, right?

SPEAKER_05

Oh yeah, oh yeah, God was trying to slow me down for years, years he was trying to slow me down.

SPEAKER_03

But that's so that's like so much more. I feel just as a mom, not being able to take care of your baby is like like just a a different kind of pain, right? Uh to me anyhow, it's just not natural, yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_05

Well, and at that time in my life, I didn't have a support network outside of my parents and my husband. Yeah, like I didn't have a lot of friends because I did nothing but work all the time. My friends that I did have, you know, all lived far away, nobody was close by. So I mean, I didn't have it's not like I had anyone coming to me, you know, every day to say to say to me, um, you know, you gotta, you gotta get better, like you gotta feel better. How can we help you? Like, I I didn't have that.

SPEAKER_03

Yes. And everybody else is trying to take care of your kids, the thing, right? So it's like you don't have, yeah. That's so painful. So what um did you did you have like how dark did your thoughts get?

SPEAKER_05

Did you ever oh I definitely I mean there's been there's been times in my life where I have definitely thought about wanting to take my own life for sure. Like there's been multiple different times. Um that very first relationship, like I couldn't understand why I was alive after all of that happened to me. And then, and then um, you know, when when that happened, um I was like, well, you know, why did I why did I get spared? I don't need to be spared. Like there were times in my second marriage where I felt so lonely. And I was like, my kids and my husband were so close to each other. Like I ended up moving out because I didn't feel like a part of the family unit. And when I made that choice, all of my family sided with him in that choice. So I there was many a night where I was alone, you know, crying in my in my fear and in my loneliness that I felt like, why am I still here? Like, why is this keep going? Um, you know, I never got to the point. I I also had like this is this is funny, but not funny. So when I was in high school, I I did a lot of theater in high school too, and I was building uh set with um the other cast members, and I can remember using a hammer, and I had the the claw end of the hammer actually like sliced my wrist a little bit, and I can remember after that happened, like I went through another depression time in high school and I was way over dramatic. And I told somebody that I tried to do that, like I've been through I've been through that place so many times, and I think what I've recognized for myself is is I don't I wouldn't want to leave in a way that I felt I hadn't done anything I that I could hadn't done everything that I could do to help myself first.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. What would you say to someone who because one of the things that I hear over and over again with people who want to die by suicide is that they really believe no one loves them. They really have that like visceral like loneliness and a lack of worth. And you know, I always Wanna say don't quit before the miracle happens. Like people don't have evidence that it can change, you know? So what would you, if you could just speak and look in their eyes, what would you say to someone today who was feeling that way or thinking that you know, I would just let them know that them loving themselves is the most important thing. And you know what they'd say, right? They don't love them.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Right? Yeah. And it's a amazing. Like I always want to tell people that, you know, no matter how dark it is now, things change. This too shall pass. Oh, it's temporary.

SPEAKER_05

That's absolutely everything is temporary. We are we are literally living in the moment, in exactly whatever moment is happening right now.

SPEAKER_03

So now when you think about that too, if you have a um somebody who's younger, an adolescent or a young adult who hasn't had the evidence of things changing yet, like we have evidence, like, oh, I've gotten over shit like this before. Yeah, so many times. Yeah. And and you come out better, like to know that. And um, I just always want people who are younger to know that you know, just wait for the evidence, you know, don't give up, right? Yeah. Now I'm gonna ask you to share your evidence because you have created so much after this. You have a thriving relationship, and I want you to tell us about what you're doing so people can see the transformation.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. I mean, the work that I do now is to help people get out of their own way, and I say that very flippantly, right? Get out, get out of your own way. Um, I have been a person who's been in my own way for so many years, like decades. And I'm also the same person who everybody says that I have it all together, right? I'm that person where people look in at me and they're like, oh, you have it all together. What do you mean? So I I had the opportunity to sit uh with Ed Milette for 18 minutes. And we it was the two of us, we were in a hot seat together, and for 18 minutes, he told me what he saw in me because I asked him. And that 18 minutes changed my life. I haven't had loneliness since that happened in a way that is that paralyzing that it can be. You know, we are all here and we're all created for a reason, and we are also all here to help each other. And knowing that I had the opportunity to sit with someone who has the ability to see people and listening to what he said to me gave me more love for who I am.

SPEAKER_02

I love that. Like his voice had power.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, and it wasn't, you know, he's an incredible human being. Yeah, and also he's a vessel for God's work.

SPEAKER_02

A hundred percent.

SPEAKER_05

And I believe that the message that I needed to hear came through him that day. And I recognize God has God has done so many things in my life and given me so many gifts and so many abilities and so many, so many different avenues for healing myself. That why wouldn't I be using that to help other people?

SPEAKER_02

Exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, you know, that's I have always thought, like, you know, you describe your life and all those different difficulties, instead of seeing it like as a victim, though, this happened to me. Like, I feel like every time something would happen in my life, I'd be like, this can't be a coincidence. Like, this is a lot of stuff. Yeah, yeah. I'm like, so yeah, this must be here to like do something. And I knew because I was a therapist, I was like, that's gotta be something, you know. Like I I can help, I could help somebody in a w murder trial, I could help somebody who has an eating disorder, sexually abused. I'm like, the list is just I'm like, this is weird, you know. But we end up owning the land. Like, you know, I picture myself with like a you know, a steak, and I'm like, yeah, I understand this land, I'm just gonna sit in there with you until you're ready to go out.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03

You know, so you the the description of what you went through with your babies, there's just so much wow, so much there. And so, like when I hear your story, my my stories don't even sound bad because that to me, probably because I didn't have it happen to me, right?

SPEAKER_05

I remember yeah, to me, they to me those those stories are the heartbeat of my life, and yeah, I don't even see them as difficult anymore. They were just a part of what I had to go through. Like we haven't we haven't touched on what's been going on in my life in the last year, but um tell us. I mean, I I had prior to the beginning of last year, I had a a brick and mortar restaurant business, you know, not a small business, a staff of 32 people. I had a consulting business, I had uh real estate businesses, and I sold them all and exited them all last year. And now I'm in the process of going through bankruptcy because of the way all that played out. And I have so many people who are like, How do you like look, you know? Um, to your point, it is temporary, it is a learning phase, it is something that I can utilize to help other people with the choices and decisions that they need to make. I mean, bankruptcy is such a hot button for shame and guilt for people.

SPEAKER_02

Yes.

SPEAKER_05

And and it was not an easy decision for me. Um, it was honestly a gift that God gave me to get out of the financial situation that I was in with all of these businesses. You know, I made a lot of choices and put a lot of people ahead of myself. And um, so it was a gift to get me out of where I am right now. Um and I look at everything that happens to us in our lives as a gift in that way. What lessons did I learn from it? How am I understanding how I use those lessons to help other people?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Um yeah, it's just all you know, you know what I love about that with you because it's so counterintuitive, what I'm gonna say is that you going through that, I feel like it makes sense in the kingdom of God because it's opposite. So you're an expert, you're a financial expert, and you help people financially. So now you have to stand in this situation, making this choice to me, that's just a heavier weight for that skill. Like I feel like it's incredible.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, well, and the amount I'll say this too like the amount of ego death that goes along with that because of everything that I had to endure and everything I've done. I mean, I've helped I've helped clients build, you know, million-dollar companies and I've run million-dollar companies. Like this, this whole situation for me, what this is for me, in all honesty, is gonna sound a little silly.

SPEAKER_02

Not to me.

SPEAKER_05

For me, this is an ego death for judgment.

SPEAKER_02

I got it. I love it.

SPEAKER_05

Because not only, not only do I have to be in thoughts, because I know people are gonna judge me for making that decision. I have to recognize too that there were times in my life where I judged for people making that decision.

SPEAKER_03

I got it, yeah.

SPEAKER_05

And as we go through life, judgment is one of the biggest killers of dreams.

SPEAKER_03

It is. I think the longer we move along the earth, um, the more we recognize that I'm very afraid to judge because I'm um I feel like I could end up in the same situation no matter what it is. And it's um yeah, and I can really see and it's it and it's it's not I maybe it's not popular or maybe in our circles it is, but to see it as a spiritual, it's a spiritual thing and it's like a cool thing. I also feel like I think about you know, whatever situation, if there's like the more you the more you succeed, the more financial big things that can happen, right? Oh yeah. Like yeah.

SPEAKER_05

And I feel like I mean, I'm a risk taker. I'm a risk taker, I'm a daredevil. Like the there is no no doubt about that. And I, you know, the the final straw that broke the camel's back in that situation was um was an event that I that I hosted and I didn't recoup, you know, almost $200,000 on, right? That was the final straw that kind of broke the camel's back. And um, you know, this is all a part of so all of the all of the work I'm doing now, all the business I'm building. Um, you know, I am a speaker, I am on stages, this is all a part of the the keynote delivery I have because it's important for people to understand no matter how bad the situation is, you can literally put it behind you can and move forward.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. And it is a choice. Yeah, but you have to make the choice.

SPEAKER_03

You know what I love about what you just said? Because like, so like let the $200,000. I'm just using that number because you said it. So $200,000. So any mistake that I've made where let's say I've lost money or whatever it is, right? I take that number and I say, okay, $200,000. Okay, what does that mean? That means that I have to somehow get a $200,000 education. So I'm gonna do that shit. So now, no matter what, so whether it's $20,000, whatever it is, I'm gonna learn $200,000 worth. So then it's worth it because I'm not gonna walk away from this without it being worth it.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

No, yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_05

I mean, I yes for for me, it's it's how can I help other people not lose that $200,000 too, right? Yes. How can I help the other people have the level of discernment that I didn't have? How can I help other people identify the patterns that they're doing that's costing them that that level of financial strain? Like there's um there's so people are gonna think this is wild when I say it, but it it's true. Like it is a gift. Me losing that $200,000 honestly also is a gift because there will be there will be hundreds of people that I help not lose $200,000 because of the lessons that I have learned.

SPEAKER_03

That was your investment.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I just I just like um bailed out of three deals, right? And I'm like, and I have like some costs to them, but it's not like gonna break me, but they're costs, yeah. Each one of them, like these fees and shit, right? And somebody who doesn't want to give me money back, but whatever. So my point about it is this is that I'm like, okay, well what like I and I just stopped and I said, What did I learn from this? And I'm like, I can't believe all the things that I I've even done, like I thought I knew, and I didn't. Like, I'm like, I all these little nuances were uncovered with banking and like all these things that I hadn't I mean, I buy and sell real estate, so I'm like, how come I didn't know this? But now I know it. I wouldn't have known it if I didn't have these problems. So it's like you know, it's good, and it sucks too, but it's good. So, anyhow, what what do you wish that I asked you that I haven't?

SPEAKER_05

I have no idea. I'm just here to serve. So, whatever you so whatever you asked me, you were meant to ask me. I'm just you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03

Just want to make sure I didn't miss anything. Did I leave a stone unturned? Is there anything that you I mean?

SPEAKER_05

There's a million and twenty-five things I could talk about, Alison.

SPEAKER_03

So we could be here for hours, but I'm sure people are not wanting to listen for they would, they would, because you're wonderful and magical and honest and authentic, and you have provided so much hope and wisdom to everyone who listens, including me. So, what how where can people find you? And how I know that you want to serve people, you have evolve, you have um, you know, so what could you just tell the people everything that you have to give?

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. So the the best place to find me is on Instagram at Ms Angela Goodman, so Ms. Angela Goodman. Um, I am I do have a podcast also if people want to listen to that. It's called Evolve Through God. So it's people sharing their stories and relationships with God. And Allison will be on there also at some point. We get that rescheduled. Um, I also have Evolve, which Allison mentioned, which is an annual event that I do for entrepreneurs and small business owners to sit down, look at their businesses, not only do their businesses, but look at their life. And let's talk relationships and communication and leadership and all of those good things. Um, and in September, I am hosting an event for people who want to share their testimony of their relationship with God live. Um, so that's going on in September. I will I have a lot going on right now. Yeah. For someone who doesn't have a job at this moment in time, I have a lot going on.

SPEAKER_03

That's awesome. Angela, I want to thank you so much for being here and for just sharing your wealth of knowledge and you know, and your your struggles that and you've you've shined on them and made them into beautiful, you know, beauty for ashes.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that's what you did.

SPEAKER_03

That is what you did. I love that.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03

I love you so much. Thank you for helping me. Um I can't wait to get, you know, in your presence.

SPEAKER_05

Right?

SPEAKER_03

We need to make that happen today. Yeah. It's a wrap.

Contributor

Alison Lager

Host