Episode 243 is our conversation with the founder of www.studentsofjesus.com, Ray Hollenbach. Ray is a pastor's coach, a college theology prof, a church planter, and a church consultant. Ray talks with Jeff and Jonny about the pain of and struggle of the fear and loss, that results from change. This is an episode that piggybacks off the last one, episode 242, with Tod Bolsinger. If you are struggling as a pastor with keeping up with the rapid change in our society, this episode will give you hope! Paul the Apostle dealt with what we are going through, 10X! Ray refers to him and makes a great point in the process. This episode will encourage and inspire you as a small church pastor, a 200church pastor! Enjoy!