Caring For Chrysanthemums

Chrysanthemums (mums) are one of the most popular fall garden flowers. Most varieties are easy to grow with their basic needs being full sun, water, rich soil, good drainage, and good air circulation. There are hundreds of varieties available in a range of shapes and sizes that can provide blooms from late Summer through end of Fall.
In this episode we chat about caring for your mums with Zannah Crowe from Johnson's Gardens in Cedarbug Wisconsin!!! When to plant, watering, fertilizing, pruning, propagation, disease/insects.

Since our interview, Johnson's Gardens was sold and is now Hayden's Gardens. Check them out at:
https://www.heydensgardens.com

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DID YOU KNOW?
The founding of the chrysanthemum industry in the USA dates back to 1884, when the Enomoto Brothers of Redwood City, California, grew the first chrysanthemums cultivated in America.
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https://www.facebook.com/Your-Midwest-Garden-Podcast-104823994541594
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If you would like to participate in the next Mike's Mail episode, please email your gardening question to:
YourMidwestGarden@bex.net

Or better yet, get your 15 seconds of fame and record your question on your phone (using the voice memo app) and send that to us! Then hear yourself on the podcast!
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If you happen to be in the Toledo or Perrysburg, Ohio area, please stop in at our sponsor's garden centers or visit them online at:
https://www.blackdiamondgrows.com

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome back to another episode of Your Midwest Garden. Now, today's show is about caring for Crissan , Crissan mums. All right , it's a fall thing. Today's podcast is season one, episode 19. Welcome back to Y M G . I'm Michael Roarke, the garden guy. Now, Scott's here today, too. Well, you know, he's gotta be here. It's his studio. He's here every day .

Speaker 2: 0:41

Hi Mike. Hey everybody.

Speaker 1: 0:43

Hello, Scott. Today we have a special guest and we're happy to have her on board. Her name is Zanna Crow. She's from Johnson's Gardens in Cedarburg, Wisconsin, and she's gonna help us on specific fall things like mums perennials, what to do with them, what to expect. Um, you're getting a little tired of, you know, what's out there. What can we do right now to invigorate and get the thing going again, clean up , and even the good old fashioned bulbs for next season. I mean, what else can you expect? This is gonna be great. Stick with us,

Speaker 2: 1:14

Mike. We've had a number of episode downloads from the Wisconsin area. Yeah. So we're nice .

Speaker 1: 1:21

We we appreciate that.

Speaker 2: 1:22

Yeah, it's awesome. So I thought I'd, you know, spread our wings a little bit and fly west. Well , it's it's economy airline, but west

Speaker 1: 1:31

Young man .

Speaker 2: 1:31

Yeah. And , uh, so I contacted Johnson's Gardens and Zanna agreed to talk about mums and fall items. And so yeah. It's , it's gonna be exciting.

Speaker 1: 1:41

Now, on the fall items, I mean, other than the mums themselves, a again, there's something that we can dis Well, I've been interested in, and I know you've been interested in, of course, we created the monster in you. The thing I want is to , for people to understand that just because things are starting to wane, it doesn't mean to go and yank 'em out. It means to go ahead and allow things . I mean, for instance, you, you brought something to my attention about the perennials in your yard right now are starting to go a little bit ucky . Yeah . And you're wondering, should you, you know, go ahead and crop these down. Now, it's not like you're taking care of a newborn child, but

Speaker 2: 2:16

What I was asking about is in years past, at certain points, and then the front yard, I have a bunch of cone flowers and I've, you know mm-hmm . <affirmative> once, once the petals have fallen off, I've kind of cut them down. I've kept the greens to make it, you know. Yeah . A little fun for fall and Halloween by putting pumpkins in the greens in that area. But the stems and the flowers are , are the seed heads . Now I've cut off, but bing bang, boom. I was talking to somebody and they're like, no, don't do that. Save the seed heads . Well, you wanna tell us why?

Speaker 1: 2:51

Well save the seed heads . I'd leave the seed heads lay on top. I mean, let 'em stay there.

Speaker 2: 2:56

Yeah. Don't not cut

Speaker 1: 2:58

'em . Don't cut 'em off. I mean, it may not look as pristine, but this isn't your family room, your living room, your dining room inside of your house. This is the outside. There's other things that you can play with that we'll talk and touch upon when we talk to Zana . But the , the flowers there for a purpose. What are they doing, Scott? They're going to seed.

Speaker 2: 3:16

Yes. And ,

Speaker 1: 3:17

And what is the seed there for?

Speaker 2: 3:19

The seed is there for nourishment

Speaker 1: 3:24

For,

Speaker 2: 3:24

Well, I have a bunch of , uh, American Goldfinch that live on those, and the cats stare out the front door watching them. They're amazing . It's

Speaker 1: 3:34

Their television set. They're amazing .

Speaker 2: 3:35

Yeah. It's exactly nice. Yeah. It's ,

Speaker 1: 3:37

I mean, is there's ,

Speaker 2: 3:38

It's four by three window, not a 16 by nine. Well,

Speaker 1: 3:41

No . Okay. Yeah. Digital

Speaker 2: 3:42

<laugh> , but I mean, yeah, it entertains them. But I mean, so , uh, you know, I kind of started looking around and they're like, you know, leave the seeds because those birds, you know , are migrating or they're staying over winter and they need to fatten up, or they need that nourishment for a long flight. And I'm like, well, yeah. So no , I'm , I'm not cutting 'em down anymore.

Speaker 1: 4:04

Don't cut 'em down. I mean, it may not Look, you can do that come Thanksgiving if you want to. I right at the moment, you not only are the birds gonna benefit from it, you've got other critters that are out there that some of us find as nuisance. I mean, squirrels are gonna be eating those things. Have you ever seen a squirrel take some of the sunflower heads? I'm not talking just the seed. They'll crop that head right off, drop it to the ground, and they'll all that around. Yeah . Yes. Now, these are for the benefit of nature, the things that are coming, we're bringing back all sorts of neat things like the beneficial insects that I know Zana and you and I are gonna be talking about later. We're bringing back certain types of bird life that you've never seen. You, sir, have never paid attention to the fence until you've started to notice these things.

Speaker 2: 4:46

Yeah. They're cool. I mean, I like color. And, and once they started, the yellow ones started showing up. I was just like, oh, color. I love

Speaker 1: 4:53

This . Oh, they're gonna

Speaker 2: 4:53

Change colors now . Come on people. It's, it's a nice gold color on top of your flower. It's part the land that looks dead. So now there's color, it's live in, oh , can I borrow the line in living color? And

Speaker 1: 5:07

The , the bingo? Yeah. It's awesome . It's a Disney throwback. I mean ,

Speaker 2: 5:11

And , and if you have cats, like I said, they'll be entertained. Well,

Speaker 1: 5:14

You can have dogs with the squirrels too, that get really antsy about it.

Speaker 2: 5:17

I've gotta I've gotta do a shout out here. Mike, go a work buddy. His wife started , um, some gardening, but it's not just your basic gardening. It's goth Gardens

Speaker 1: 5:29

I know is legal . Oh, it's goth?

Speaker 2: 5:31

Yes. Oh, cool. And she calls herself, wait a minute, everybody pay attention. Instagram, she has an Instagram account. It's , she's called the Gothic Garden girl. And she does like goth gardens, and it's like using like, you're kidding. Certain type of dark and spooky plants. Oh,

Speaker 1: 5:47

Wow.

Speaker 2: 5:47

Like black pansies, blood grass , black petunias , like , uh,

Speaker 1: 5:52

What good Japanese maples are you talking ? I mean, really

Speaker 2: 5:55

Like Queen of the night tulips.

Speaker 1: 5:57

Really?

Speaker 2: 5:58

So, and then on top of that, so , so she also sells skull planters.

Speaker 1: 6:04

Wait a minute, wait a minute. You're talk skulls . Skulls.

Speaker 2: 6:06

She makes about

Speaker 1: 6:07

The bone skull.

Speaker 2: 6:07

Yeah. You know, like the pirate, the pirate flag. Yeah . The skull . Not the crossbones, but just the skull.

Speaker 1: 6:13

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 6:14

So she takes cement and just forms skulls. Some of 'em have teeth, some of them don't, but she used those as like succulent planners. They're not huge, but you, you know, you buy , you buy a bunch, your hammer

Speaker 1: 6:25

Sheet has some chicks in it, and

Speaker 2: 6:27

Yeah . Yeah. So, no kidding. And then, so I was messing around on the internet, as you know , uh, as I do. And so I looked up goth gardens, and there's a ton of people into this. It's, it's,

Speaker 1: 6:40

So, I mean, you're talking like goth the definition of what I, you know, I mean, there's so many other def different definitions. In other words, this garden basically is focusing on the way that you can have color, but more so in a , in a , in a theme of the gothic

Speaker 2: 6:57

In a Yeah. A theme routine . So for , and, you know, maybe we should just have her on and tell us all about this.

Speaker 1: 7:03

Can we, I mean, you know, these people personally,

Speaker 2: 7:05

I'll arrange it intimately . Yeah , I'll walk it out . But it's like, you know, I think a lot of it has to do more with the names of the plant. And a lot of it has to do with color, like the, the , you know, the dark plants. But then they'll have something popping up that's colorful,

Speaker 1: 7:20

You know, for some reason something's popping up in my head. There's certain types of plants, especially around the Halloween season. I mean, I can see the fog machine just going out there. And then you can have the , that type of a thing out there with all these plants and making it look pretty. Yeah. Yeah. Could , could you set that up and see if we could have a discussion? I don't

Speaker 2: 7:39

Care. I'll make the call.

Speaker 1: 7:40

Oh, beautiful. This is gonna be real . Anybody that has anything new and you unique as far as gardening ideas, I , we would definitely appreciate it. Because like you had stated, I didn't know that this existed.

Speaker 2: 7:51

Yeah, no, I'd , it was just like, the website just popped up, boom, boom, boom. All kinds of gothic garden tips and stuff. So check her out again. Gothic garden girl on Instagram.

Speaker 1: 8:01

Gothic Garden girl. Instagram. She's on Instagram. She, so we , let's say if we went on Google too, and did Gothic Garden, girl, would she pop up?

Speaker 2: 8:09

Well, a bunch of things . She does pop up, but , and it's her Instagram account. But,

Speaker 1: 8:14

But then you've got a number of other ones that , that are gonna pop up throughout. Check

Speaker 2: 8:17

Her out . 84 .

Speaker 1: 8:18

We'll make it a point to , what's her name again? Scott

Speaker 2: 8:20

Gothic Garden Girl.

Speaker 1: 8:22

So on with the show, everyone, I'd like to introduce you to Zanna Crow. Uh, she's from Johnson Gardens in Cedarburg, Wisconsin. Welcome, Zanna .

Speaker 3: 8:33

Well, thank you very much, Mike. It's a pleasure to be here.

Speaker 1: 8:35

Now, would you like to give us a quick intro , um, basically about , uh, your title and what you do at Johnson Gardens?

Speaker 3: 8:44

Uh, Johnson Gardens is the retail piece of , uh, Johnson's Nursery, which is a third generation family owned nursery in Menominee Falls in Jackson, Wisconsin. Um, we specialize in native plants. A lot of the plants that we propagate are from seeds collected from local ecotypes in our area, so that they're ideally suited to growing in our part of southeastern Wisconsin. Um, at Johnson's Gardens in Cedarburg, like I say, we're the retail piece. So we're the full service garden center. We have annuals and tropicals and , um, garden tools and home decor and all that stuff , uh, versus , uh, the nursery in the falls, it just carries the hardy plants. My title at the gardens is , uh, educational horticulturist, and I assist the customers , uh, on a daily basis. And then I'm also the one that if a garden club calls up and wants a presentation or something like that, I would be the one who would go out and do that.

Speaker 2: 9:43

Or , or a podcast Correct . Like we're doing right at this moment. <laugh> . So I , real quick, since you mentioned native plants , um, we've had two episodes now. One , uh, episode five early on when we had a local native plant person talk. And then we just , uh, interviewed Alan Brannigan, who ha , uh, came out with a , a scaled down book , um, native plants, native plant primer , um, for the Midwest. And we had , that was like two episodes ago, one episode. Yeah . That was a great discussion with him. But my point being is that the Native plant episodes are like our number one episodes. It's like taking off you finding the same thing in your area.

Speaker 3: 10:31

There is a , a huge increase in interest in gardening with native plants, which is really an important , uh, gardening movement because, you know, as we develop more and more of our , uh, naturalized areas , um, our native in particular beneficial insects are really being threatened. And just even on a city lot , uh, you can make a , you can have a tremendous impact , uh, by planting these native plants that have, you know, a long association with our native beneficial insects and our native birds and wildlife.

Speaker 2: 11:08

And before you joined us on this episode, Mike and I were discussing real quick, a little tidbit as far as, you know, not cutting down your cone flowers and stuff for the homeowners to , uh, help the birds , uh, feed for their winter flight or over wintering. So it all , it's uh , one big circle, isn't it?

Speaker 3: 11:27

Yeah, exactly. And the piece that that is often missing from, from that discussion is the insect piece. You know, we all appreciate birds and we think about the seeds and the berries mm-hmm . <affirmative> that we're providing for the birds to eat, but the vast majority of our native songbirds need to feed their young on , uh, insects. Yeah . And so we really have to have an awareness that we can't always think of insects as an enemy in the garden.

Speaker 1: 11:54

Do you find that to be something natural? Zana ? I mean, we're noticing that people are now, and I gotta blame it on, which is accredited to this, but the people being closer to home now, I mean, being more interested in , in going, well, let's say natural organic beneficial insects instead of having pesticides applied left and right when they see a spider, people freak out. I generally, we we're trying to let people know, but we don't have to anymore. They come and ask, is this a good a spider? Is this a bad spider? Praying Mattis , are they good? Uh , cicada killing wasp. Are they good? I , I I mean, are you noticing that this is something that is a trend more so than a fad?

Speaker 3: 12:35

Um, I am hoping so. I think there does seem to be much more awareness. Uh, we carry , uh, a full line of , um, organic pest control products where the emphasis is on controlling the, the destructive insects, but not , um, affecting the beneficial insects. And people begin , are really beginning to understand that concept.

Speaker 1: 12:57

Well, you just said the word, you said control. I like that. Because generally you're controlling , uh, like Scott said, basically there's a cycle here that you want to contain. And the beneficial do more than just pollinate. I mean, they're predators also that, go ahead. I mean, you've got a wasp that goes ahead and lays its eggs on top of the tomato horn worm to, to knock it out. You leave it alone. It looks like it's some type of stegosaurus from the prehistoric periods. Um, you're going right now into more of an organic, more of a natural routine on horticulture , um, and agriculture. I wanna , I wanna basically kind of segue , um, and then come back to your, your , your beneficial, because there's a, there's a derivative of , uh, of the mum plant, which is called pyrethrin, which is a natural insecticide that is extremely toxic to certain insects that are not beneficial and those that are beneficial , um, as compared to, let's say, using the good old fashioned long time ago, diazinon, when it comes down to it, do you promote this or do people come over and ask for it?

Speaker 3: 14:02

Um, we have, like I say , two complete lines of , um, garden pesticides. We have the organic line, and then we have the more traditional chemical line, if you will . Yeah . And , um, I find more and more, I always ask people when they come in with, you know, we have people coming in all the time with , and, and I say, does this, does this matter to you? Whether it's organic or not? And cuz I want , I don't wanna push them one direction or another. And , um, the vast majority of people say, yeah, I really would prefer to go with an organic if, if it will be effective. And , um, you know, as a general rule, the main difference between those two is the longevity , um, on some of those more traditional chemical applications that they, you know , um, remain on the plant for a long period of time and they can basically turn the plant into a neurotoxin, which, if you want a pristine plant maybe is your goal. But I think for a lot of people, when they realize, you know what it's all about, they don't necessarily wanna go that direction.

Speaker 2: 15:07

Beautiful. So speaking of control , I would like to take a little control and let's <laugh> let's, let's hit our subject. You know , we've got, we've got some pulse subjects to talk, but people are tuning in for moms, so

Speaker 1: 15:20

That was subtle

Speaker 2: 15:21

<laugh>.

Speaker 1: 15:23

Well then, okay, now that we see, I was trying to segue going with the , the ,

Speaker 2: 15:28

Which is I ,

Speaker 1: 15:28

That I saw the derivative there . I saw that.

Speaker 2: 15:30

Um , I'm also time conscious.

Speaker 1: 15:32

Yeah , I know. He's too much of a professional. Anyhow, the, the mom , since we've discovered that there's the pyrethrin, let's talk about the prettiness, the time of year, the difference between what they call , you see him advertised , there's the hardy mom , and then you've got ta the most beautiful one in the world. That's gonna be, you know, something that you've really gotta maintain. Can you , I know that, that you deal with basically perennials, but tell me about your mom's. Um, people are gonna start going , wanting to put color in . Scott said that , uh, the being that there's, you know, your coneflower is going dormant, your sunflower is going dormant, the seeds are beneficial to the birds, et cetera . You're moms people want color. Do you supply both of them?

Speaker 3: 16:17

Well, this is the time of year, as you said, that a lot of the perennials are kind of winding down and people want that pop of color. And so basically there's two, well, there's many, many different types of mums, but for the gardener , there's really probably two different relevant classifications. Beautiful. And , um, there's the seasonal mums that are sold usually in full bloom and looking like that beautiful cushion of color. Um, those in many cases, they're often sold as, and the tag will say hardy mums,

Speaker 1: 16:53

Right ?

Speaker 3: 16:54

In most cases they are in fact hardy varieties. But because of the way they've been grown, grown in a greenhouse, pushed , um, with fertilizer , um, their energy at this time of year is being put entirely into that beautiful floral display. And so they would, if you planted those in the garden, they tend to go into the winter in a weakened state because their energy hasn't been put into developing a strong root system. It's been put into producing all those beautiful flowers in the , in the autumn. And then on the other , uh, side of the coin, there are the true garden hardy mums. Now crisan mums as a , a genus has been divided up in recent years. Um , so there are a number of hardy mums, which are now called Lucan Theum . They've been reclassified and they look basically like a daisy. Um, they're a fall blooming daisy , uh, which can be made to look a little bit more like what we think of as a traditional mum by pinching them prior to, oh , say the 4th of July. Yeah. Um, but then there's also a couple of series of , um, fall blooming mums. And our favorite is the mammoth series. It's a mum that gives you that same look as a seasonal mum , where you have that beautiful complete cushion or mound of flowers. Um, but this one is, is Hardy will come back in your garden year after year. It's called the Mammoth series. And they were developed at the University of Minnesota and specifically developed for extreme cold hardiness. And they're hardy all the way up to into Canada.

Speaker 1: 18:35

Wow. Because , yeah, I was, I was generally, that's one of the reasons why I was asking about the zoning earlier. Um, again, we're stuck in, in somewhere between his zone four to his zone six. And it depends on what the season's like and what mother nature decides to throw. You're probably in a same or similar area. These are things where most of the , especially the people that are starting to garden now, I mean, they're at home more because of what, you know, we're going through at this present moment, but they're at home more and they're making their gardens and their house pretty, they're out there playing with it . Gardening can be and is therapeutic. But these moms, the mammoth moms are the hardiest of all.

Speaker 3: 19:14

Well, there , there are other moms in quotation marks that are equally hardy, but this is the hardiest that gives you that look of what we think of as a traditional mum without any pinching or any training. They will grow in that beautiful mound of solid flowers.

Speaker 1: 19:32

Beautiful. I mean, I , in this case, you can go ahead, drop 'em in the ground. The root system will a accelerate in its growth, meaning that it , it will sustain the winter . Or is it one of these things that, you know, okay, you drop it in the ground, the chances of survival are gonna be 80% higher for these than let's say our standard hardy moms.

Speaker 3: 19:52

I would say that's probably about right because the, the heart , the what are sold as the seasonal moms, like I say , which are often called hardy mums . Right . Um, they may or may not over winter. They might over winter . And there's things you can do to try to increase the likelihood that they will, but most people will just treat them as a seasonal annual plant .

Speaker 2: 20:12

Yeah. Because , you know, speaking for us weekend warriors, doing my homework, looking at them winterizing and taking care of the moms in the spring, man, that's a lot of work. You know, if you're cutting back each branch , uh, at this time of year and then cutting them back again and then letting them go. So they bud and mulching over winter. I mean, you know, as a weekend warrior that's , uh, I can see why people care , uh, treat them as an annual in the fall.

Speaker 3: 20:45

Yeah. And if they're , most people grow 'em in containers and so then when, you know, on their front deck or patio or whatever. Yeah . And if you're growing them in containers, I would say just dispose of them at when they're finished. But if you are putting them in the ground, there really isn't any work, additional work to trying to overwinter them. The main the main thing is probably just to do not cut them back in the fall because if you leave that growth , uh, on top in the fall, the , the spent growth, it does protect the crown a little bit. So just that one simple thing. Um, and then in the spring, if you get new growth coming, it survived. And if you don't, it didn't, you know, there's no extra work involved.

Speaker 2: 21:25

Right. And then cut it back if it does.

Speaker 3: 21:28

Correct. And you cut back that spent , uh, growth in the spring. Where

Speaker 1: 21:32

Was Zanna Crow from Johnson Gardens in Cedarburg, Wisconsin? I, now that you made mention of that, I just, before we went on air, I was making mention to Scott that yeah, I've got moms that have been there for, they , they , they're , they're not the most pristine, but they've been , I've lived in this house for about 16 years and the previous owner put them in. Now they , they come up, they bloom in the spring, they'll bloom again in the autumn. Um, when it comes time when I'm doing my final mowing, and now this sounds disgustingly awful, but like when you made mention do not cut 'em back, I don't do that. I, I just leave 'em alone. Right . It it , it's just one of those things that, you know, the less is best routine in this case. I mean, you can read up all you want on it, but generally, if you're fortunate enough to have what you've been calling the seasonal mom and we've been calling the hardy mom, if they do show any new growth down below, leave alone. Here's one thing that I wanted to bring to your attention also. Um, people are, were questioning, you know, my moms didn't come back up this year. All that was coming up was were , were, were, were weeds. And I'm going, well wait a minute. Okay. What are you defining as a weed? And did you cut your moms down last fall? Yes, I did everything that, you know, the internet told me to do. And then around the outside of where the , where the mum was, where thousands of little green leaves of something that I had to pull out because the only thing that was coming back <laugh> . And in essence, Zana , why don't you go ahead and tell us what those thousands of new things coming up are?

Speaker 3: 22:57

Well, I mean, I suppose it's not impossible. They could have seedlings or it could be, you know, growth coming up from the root structure.

Speaker 1: 23:04

They were yanking out the growth from the root structure. Yeah. And I mean, generally ignorance isn't bliss in this case, but it's one of those things where you, if you leave it alone Sure. You're probably gonna get, you know, a couple of other introductions to weeds coming up. But the moms have been coming up on a regular basis. They , it looks like a little bit of chickweed when it first starts and they just take the shovel to it and say to hell with it.

Speaker 3: 23:27

Yeah. I always tell people to be very patient with their perennials. I so many times with things that break dormancy late, you know, they'll, they say don't dig it up. Wait till the middle of June before you decide anything is not coming along.

Speaker 1: 23:39

Well, now's the time to start thinking about putting the mums out into your yard. You don't have to generally go haywire as far as what the internet says. You know, cut it down this, you know, to , uh, four and a half inches. Put some mulch around it, wash it in so that it freezes . Forget that noise. You go and get the , like what Zanna said, the seasonal moms, the hardy moms and if, and should they come back next year? We'll do the happy dance next May now.

Speaker 3: 24:02

Exactly.

Speaker 1: 24:03

We're we're, we're gonna segue into the perennials on the perennial garden that we were,

Speaker 2: 24:08

But before, before we do that, can I just so

Speaker 1: 24:10

Much for my segue, <laugh> All right , go ahead.

Speaker 2: 24:12

I don't know about Johnson's Gardens if you guys have started putting some out for purchase yet. I know at Black Diamond we've put a few that were actually , uh, blooming and start or starting to bloom. Um, and I actually had, because two, two reasons. One that we planted earlier than we normally do, only because of Covid knowing that our, our , I mean our, when your annuals sell out in no time, the

Speaker 1: 24:39

Supply is gone. Right?

Speaker 2: 24:40

Yeah. And then, so everybody's garden now is getting, their annuals are starting to wilt a little bit yellow because of the , the cold evenings. So they want new color and frankly, I think they're just getting bored and want something to do. So we put a few out and they're , cuz there's people been asking for over a week already before that, when are the moms coming? And we're like, geez , you're a lot early <laugh> . And the , and then I had one lady come out and, you know, leaving the store after her purchase and she's like, man, you guys have moms out out already. This is way too early. So she's like a real traditionalist. And I was just like, well, you know, COVID people are bored. So are you finding that

Speaker 3: 25:22

Well be , people did begin asking a about a week or two ago already for moms, and so it seemed real premature to us, but we , um, you know, because of the shortage of a lot of plant material , uh, this year and we had sold entirely out of annuals. Our greenhouse was literally empty. That's never ever happened before. Yeah. Yeah. And so , um, we did , uh, we don't grow our own moms . We don't have the greenhouse , uh, capacity for that, but we buy in from a local grower. And , um, so we did fill our greenhouse with moms last week and over the weekend we've sold lots and lots and lots of moms

Speaker 2: 26:03

People just bored. Yep .

Speaker 3: 26:05

People are ready. Yeah , they're

Speaker 2: 26:06

Ready . People are ready. And and you , we discussed off air a little bit, you discussing about people getting , uh, antsy and bored and , and they maybe moms are arriving at the time of the year where we need to rejuvenate our excitement for gardening.

Speaker 3: 26:22

Right. And that's one thing that I've seen this year that I is maybe one of the only positive things that comes out of this horrible situation is there's gonna be a lot of new gardeners. Yeah . A lot of people that are getting interested in gardening and a lot of children, which is wonderful to have a new generation of gardeners.

Speaker 1: 26:39

Now don't you find that really unique that the children are showing, not necessarily interest, but it's getting their noses out of these little, you know, video games, but the uniqueness of their interest in what's, how things grow? Uh, like ,

Speaker 3: 26:52

Well, you know, a lot of the kids were home from school and their parents were looking for projects to do with them. So a lot of them went to growing plants from seed and that's exciting for kids. Yeah .

Speaker 2: 27:01

Yeah . We had , I'm , I'm sure you guys did too. Uh , seed, we had a banter year for seeds and for the topsoil because everybody was building garden beds.

Speaker 3: 27:12

Yep , yep . Absolutely. We sold completely outta topsoil at one point. We're struggling to get more. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 27:17

Yeah. So w Wisconsin and Ohio seemed to be very much linked together as far as , uh, people's attitudes and about gardening for the , during the covid season,

Speaker 1: 27:29

Covid season. I do not like that word.

Speaker 2: 27:32

So. And <laugh> . Yeah . And it sounds as the weekend warrior as , uh, visionary here, it sounds that moms are actually easier to take care of than what the internet makes 'em out to be.

Speaker 3: 27:48

Oh gosh. There's nothing to it. I mean, when they purchase their fall moms and put 'em in and all you gotta do is water 'em. That's it.

Speaker 1: 27:55

Thank you Zana . That's what I was trying to get across. You got, you got somebody like Scott who goes, well, I don't know, I'm gonna look this up. And then you get four pages of nothing about what to do. I think all you gotta do, it's called pop and drop. You just drop it in the ground as you said. Water 'em, enjoy them. Yep .

Speaker 2: 28:13

Now one of the things I'd like to add also, if I remembered last year and putting mums out and stuff, that they need a lot of water. Um, especially the ones just in your containers, and I know some people suggest , uh, the saucers , uh, to help you with your watering so you don't have to keep an eye on your mums every day because I'm sure most greenhouses are watering every day . You kind of want to keep that going at home a little bit. So maybe the sauce pans will help Black diamond . We had a florist division way back in the day , um, like way, way back in the day, like when you go pick roses for your girlfriend boyfriend, they teach you to pick the tight buds so that the flowers last longer and then they finally open in your presents. So moms have a similar pattern, if I'm remembering correct. You want to buy once with the closed buds if you're gonna put them in sunlight because they need lots of sun. And that will open up. And then if you are going to put them in shady areas, purchase the ones that are already opened , the buds are open because you're not gonna get enough sun to open those. So with picking the proper mum for the area , you're gonna put it out and keeping it watered. It's very simple. It's like I said, simpler than what I was reading on the net

Speaker 3: 29:40

Right .

Speaker 1: 29:40

Don't make this out to be something that's gonna be really , uh, an ethical thing that you're gonna have to try to maintain as far as like going to church every Sunday. No, enjoy what's there. If it needs a haircut, give it a haircut. If it needs fertilizer, give it a fertilizer. Contact somebody like Zana to find out what needs to be done over there at Johnson Gardens at , you know, Cedarburg, Wisconsin. So, <laugh> , no , Scott, may I segue now? Yes. Thank you very much. I , I want , I wanna segue, this is a segue into perennials. Perennials are starting to look a little ratty right now. I mean, are you gonna , people are out there trying to water them cuz they're going, they're , they're not shriveling up, but they're going dormant. The flower is, is starting to go to seed. Um, they , they just don't, and people are hacking and whacking at 'em . Are there any suggestions that you have for a perennial garden right now? Or for specific plants that are perennials?

Speaker 3: 30:37

Well, they're , I think a lot of times people are, when they're shopping for perennials for their garden or shrubs , um, they, they tend to do their shopping in the spring, right? Or earl very early summer. And so they tend to buy, it's just human nature things that are blooming that are pretty. And so what happens is that the late summer and fall plants , uh, are never seen in their beauty at the Garden Center cuz people have stopped shopping at the garden center at that time of year. So what I do recommend to people, if you've got your local garden center that you like to visit, stop in every couple of weeks and buy something that's blooming so that you know that in your garden you're gonna have bloom throughout the entire season. And there certainly are plants that bloom , uh, right up until frost in the perennial garden, but most of them are really underappreciated and underutilized because people simply never see them at the garden center. So if you try to sort of plan ahead , um, you know, maybe either do your own research or talk to someone at your knowledgeable person at your local garden center and say, I wanna have, you know, three full seasons of bloom. So can we try to include some fall blooming things here? And then the other thing to consider is what the foliage looks like. Like you say, things can get kinda ratty looking late in the season, and people should not hesitate to cut down their perennials if they don't look good. Like, for instance, I'm a daily lily collector. I love day lilies . I think they're spectacular in the middle of the summer. They look absolutely terrible at this time of year. I just cut 'em down. Yeah. So if they don't look good, cut 'em down, that's fine. And then allow the plants that are still beautiful to, you know, take the show. And some of the , um, you know, like for the Shade garden, I like to direct people to, we have a real issue with slugs here. And so if you have a beautiful hostage garden, sometimes you're battling slugs all the time. So to pick plants that are maybe more slug resistant and still look like, an example up here is there's a plant called Turtlehead, and it blooms in October in the shade. And what's nice about it, not only that it blooms late, but it has this thick, leathery glossy foliage that's very , uh, slug resistant so that the foliage still looks pristine at the time when the plant is blooming. And that's certainly an important consideration.

Speaker 2: 32:57

So I'm gonna say, if any , I mean, we have more to talk about, but up to this point, if anybody takes anything away from this show of what she just said was to go visit your garden center like biweekly, because I'll tell you what, so this is my first, first summer working at , uh, the Garden Center. He

Speaker 1: 33:20

Just didn't show any interest in the family business. No , no . He was Scott, I do not get dirty now. You can't keep him out of the garden.

Speaker 2: 33:27

My real job requires me to be at baseball games all summer long, so I'm not at the garden center. But now that I have been this year, I've been paying attention to like the blooming. I mean, you talked about people, like they see the blooms and that's what they want. But I tell you what, now that I see what plants are blooming later on and what they look like, it's like, man, I wanna get one of those. So, you know, she, she nailed it perfectly by saying, you know, keep coming back, even browsing, you know, looking around and it's just , uh, it's , it's , it's like going to , uh, your metro, local metro park .

Speaker 1: 34:03

Well, sometimes it's even better than that because I mean, after <laugh> , seriously, because I , when , when, and if you go to like biweekly or to, or bimonthly or whatever to the garden center, you look for perennials and you're looking at 'em that are in these four and a half inch pots and they don't look too healthy. Well, this doesn't mean that they're dying. It just means that okay, things are going through a cycle right at the moment. There's a tag in these things. Or ask someone who knows, basically to find out when this is going, is this all right? And then, you know, it's the best time of year to buy 'em too because a lot of the garden centers are gonna be knocking a little bit off of the price unless you're getting like three gallon containers, which has got a healthy plant to it, really, really healthy and hardy. But , um, when it comes right down to the four and a half inches, get 'em, put 'em in the ground and then go and see what kind of a montage you're gonna have later on. But grow , grow them or drop them in the ground in accordance to what the tag says. Full sun parts on part shade, full shade. Like what was that plant again? Zanna , that leather leathery leaf one that's ,

Speaker 3: 35:04

Oh , the

Speaker 1: 35:04

Turtlehead turtlehead turtlehead turtlehead. I'm wanna look that one up. Yeah, because I mean, the

Speaker 3: 35:09

Flower looks like a turtle's head. That's where it gets,

Speaker 1: 35:12

And it does, it does bloom. I mean, you've got yourself the characteristic of the foliage growth, like a Sylvie a Sylvie has a seed out on it . It's gonna be a nice color to it. Mostly a shady condition. But it's, it's the texture of the , of the leaves that help to add to the contrast in the garden, like this turtlehead that you're talking about. Um,

Speaker 3: 35:30

Yeah, thinking about foliage is, is huge. You know, I think a lot of times people think concentrate too much on the flower , look at the foliage and think about what the plant is gonna look like in the out of bloom season.

Speaker 1: 35:41

It gives it a great accent and it compliments the other ones that are blooming. And in this case mm-hmm . <affirmative> , if you become somebody like Scott, you're gonna end up, well see, he goes to the metro parks and he looks at all the flowers that are growing , uh, there. Now some of those have been planted by the, the , the , the horticulturists that that's out there . And some of 'em are natural , um, a as far as you know, the, the , the native plants. But he's paying attention and we're noticing that there's a lot of other people that are paying attention to , and I can contribute it to not necessarily , um, people having not too much time, but basically not enough time to go and play in their gardens. They just wanted maintenance free . Now it's therapeutic. Are you finding that , um, when the interest, like you had said , made mention that there isn't much of an interest left in this right at the moment, but then we're gonna go to something else. I mean, board gardeners from board gardeners. Is there something to, to instill into them, like what to look forward to? Uh , because like you said, the perennials right now, get something right now so that you , next year you're gonna have, something's gonna look really, really cool in anticipation. You're gonna be waiting for it to pop. Are the things that you can put in, in the fall, i e hint, hint bulbs that you can put in for next year?

Speaker 3: 36:59

Well, yeah, I think that's, you know, we have so many people come into the garden center in March and April and just oohing and eyeing over these beautiful plants they're seeing as they're driving around town and they wanna buy 'em . These are the daffodils, these are the tulips. These are the very, very early minor bulbs, like the snow drops and the glory of the snow and the crocuses that come up right through the snow and they say, oh, I've gotta have that for my garden. Can , can I buy it from you? Well, they could have bought it in the fall and put it in, but in the fall people were tired of gardening. They didn't even wanna think about it anymore. And I, I think that bulbs are such an important piece of the garden because they offer, for us here in our climate in southeastern Wisconsin, those what they call minor bulbs, the very, very early bulbs that begin blooming right up through the snow can give you an entire whole season of color. They come up bloom and before any of the perennials have even broken dormancy, and then they are dormant by the time the perennials come up so that you have had now a whole season of color you wouldn't have had otherwise. And all it takes to get that is, you know, to make that trip to the garden center in the autumn and get a bag full of various bulbs and, and pop 'em in. Most of these bulbs are, are hearty and increasers so that even a one time I like to add bulbs every fall, but even if you just do it once, you will have for years to come that enjoyment of that early spring boom .

Speaker 1: 38:35

Now, when it comes down to , uh, uh, uh, the bulbs themselves, are you finding that there , there are people that are coming in with this leaf and this thing that they call a weed that has a flower? You're familiar with Celia , uh, crocus, Eastern European people who used to throw this stuff around because they weren't interested in lawns. Um, and these things are coming back up now. Is there an indigenous bulb that , or a native bulb that comes up each year in the middle of that you're noticing that comes up?

Speaker 3: 39:03

Well, there are very, very early, you know, what we call spring ephemerals. These are woodland native plants that utilize , um, that they utilize the spring sun. So in other words, they grow in wooded areas. Um, but they're actually sun loving plants. They are growing prior to the leaves coming out. And that's their survival tech technique. That's how they manage to compete. They're gonna come up, grow, everybody else is still asleep underground. Right. And then by the time the leaves come out on the trees, they're gonna go down underground and wait till the next year. And this would be things like , um, our native , uh, bleeding heart, the little dutchman's britches. Um, there are some, some native enemies , um, <laugh>, I mean things like the Trillium, the jack and the pulpit. Those are native bulbs , native woodland bulbs.

Speaker 1: 39:55

So I in conjunction, but see they're , they're popping up in the middle. Look, I got a bluegrass lawn. I don't want this in there. Well, I'm sorry, but you know, we kind of invaded their territory . Like you stated, it's a woodland area , um, especially where there's new housing , uh, these things are gonna pop up. And when you disturb the soil, let's say I e with building a newer house or you know, doing your landscaping, that's, you're gonna find that these things are gonna pop up all over the place. I , I do have, are there any particular bulbs that you made mention of the , of tulips you made mention of daffodils? Are there specifics that you're more interested? Like a double tulip or anything new?

Speaker 3: 40:36

Um, well the , like I mentioned earlier, the , the bulbs that I am most enamored of are those very early ones because they're so hardy. Most of them are pest resistant. The deer don't eat 'em, the rabbits don't eat 'em, with the exception of the crocus. And even the species crocus, they tend to leave alone. Um, I love the daffodils, although the daffodils and the tulips, the later blooming things can be a little more challenging to incorporate into the garden because you do have to allow that foliage to die down, take that energy back into , back into the , into the bulb. Yep . And that's what I love about the early ones, that they are gone by the time you wanna start enjoying the rest of your garden. So I usually use the taller things along a shrub border or , uh, you know, the edge of the woods where I don't mind letting that foliage , uh, die

Speaker 1: 41:27

Down the back

Speaker 3: 41:27

Down itself down . It's not gonna

Speaker 1: 41:29

Bulb one bulb. Now, there again, the internet is saying, well, you've gotta dig the bulbs up in the wintertime. No, these got , these bulbs have to be dormant. The only ones that you're gonna have to are gonna be like, you know, the cans. Cans, yeah. Things of that. Leave 'em alone, let 'em sat back downward, let 'em build back up. There's nutrients that you can put in when you do the wand clean up in the garden, clean up that you can put down. I eat bone meal , things of this nature , um, that are gonna help develop more of a, of a bloom. Make it more vibrant. Now since I did make mention of cleanup, what is it that you're recommending as far as cleaning up? I mean, in the garden and the lawn? Uh , I mean, let's say your whole landscape.

Speaker 3: 42:07

Well, I think a lot of people wanna have that nice clean pallet during the winter months . That's what we've kind of been trained to do, is to go out there and cut everything down, haul it away, and the movement towards understanding a little bit more about holistic landscaping. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> the movement towards using more natives, that sort of thing. Um, it really is beneficial , uh, to leave , um, the plant material standing during the winter months. We have seedheads on our perennials and , uh, shrubs that the birds are gonna utilize as food. The hollow stems of those. Um, standing perennials can provide , uh, shelter for beneficial insects during the winter months. And the leaving that material standing does protect the crown of the plant a bit. So you do have to remove that. Um , and also during the winter months when you're looking out there to have even those little seed heads with the little cap of snow on them, at least there's something going on in the garden during the winter. Um, and then of course that, that , uh, last year's growth does need to be removed at some point prior to the new growth beginning. But that, you know , is best to do that in early spring so that the benefit is there , uh, over the winter months. Well , the only exceptions to that would be to remove foliage of anything that , um, was diseased so that you're getting those pathogens outta the garden and you're not , uh, having that cycle of those , uh, diseases continuing in the garden.

Speaker 1: 43:41

We're noticing that, you know, like you said, but then again, that's where people are getting antsy and they want to get outside, especially for being cooped up for four months indoors. And so Zanna Crow from John from Johnson Gardens in Cedarburg, Wisconsin. Um, I want to thank you for being on board with this and with us right now. Is there any way that we could possibly convince you and Johnson Gardens on , uh, coming back on board , uh, us giving you a holler when we have questions about specific things during other times throughout the year?

Speaker 3: 44:11

I would be thrilled to join you again. This has been a lot of fun and I would like to mention , um, oh , like I said, our, our parent company, Johnson's Nursery in Menominee Falls, if people wanna visit the website, it's jni plants.com . If at the top of the website there is a button called Knowledge Base , and there is a tremendous amount of information right there. Um, we have digital publications and we have articles on every kind of topic you can imagine. There's a search bar where you can put in whatever you're interested in learning about, and it's a really great , uh, resource for gardeners.

Speaker 1: 44:48

Now is this the letter J as in Joseph, N as in Nancy? I, is I the letter i plants.com

Speaker 3: 44:55

Plants? Yes. It's Johnson's Nursery Incorporated Plants, plural. Yep . And that's a , like I say, that's our parent company. And then we are jg plants.com. That's the , uh, the retail nursery in Cedarburg . We have a blog with a lot of information, but it's not as comprehensive as what's on the JNI website.

Speaker 2: 45:14

I'll put both links on the , uh, show notes. Thank you very much. Everybody look down in the little description area and click the button.

Speaker 1: 45:23

Zanna Crow Johnson's Garden Cedarburg , Wisconsin. I want to thank you so very much for, for having the patience with us and at least helping to inform our audience as to what to do and what not to worry about. Make it simple and enjoy it.

Speaker 3: 45:35

Thanks so much Mike and Scott. It's been great talking

Speaker 2: 45:37

To you . And I'd like to thank the listeners that got off their butts halfway during this when we were talking about being lazy, got in their car, finished listening to the podcast on the way to the garden center, and are now closing their door. Ready to go look at some late blooming plants .

Speaker 1: 45:55

Oh , get ready, get ready, Zanna . They're coming in the door now. Okay.

Speaker 3: 45:58

You met. Excellent . Wonderful.

Speaker 1: 46:00

Thank you ma'am. We appreciate this. Okay,

Speaker 3: 46:02

Thank you.

Speaker 1: 46:05

Thanks for listening to your Midwest Garden. If you like today's conversation, please share this podcast with friends and family and don't forget to click on the subscribe button so you won't miss any future episodes. Plus, if you have any show topics you'd like us to discuss, head on over to our sponsors Facebook page, which is Black Diamond Garden Center , and message them your topic idea for all of us at your Midwest Garden podcast. I'm Michael Rrk , the garden guy. Hope you enjoyed today's conversation.