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© UNCOMMODiFiED & TIM WINDSOR

Tim Windsor: What happens when the path you trained for is not the one you're meant to walk? Today's conversation is about journey more than destination about identity before impact, about what you learn when you move across continents, countries, cultures, and careers, and realize that the real work is not just building systems.

Building humans about people, about patterns, and about purpose. Hey, my friends. Welcome back to the Unmodified podcast. My name is Tim Windsor and the guest on the show today is Omar Husan. Omar, welcome to the show.

Omar Hussein: Thanks, Tim. Thanks for having me.

Tim Windsor: Uh, looking forward to it. Listen, let's, uh, grab a coffee and we will get this, uh, conversation started.

Omar Hussein: So I just recently kind of stopped coffee and I'm now drinking the green tea. But,

uh, I might, yeah, I might be moving, uh, back to coffee, but I just wanna have a break. You know what? That's a very [00:01:00] smart idea. Too much Coffee's probably not that good for 

Tim Windsor: you. 

Omar Hussein: I think, uh, at some point I've had like seven per day, so yeah. I need to, to tone it down.

Tim Windsor: Y. Yeah. Yeah. I'm I'm that way every day too. Probably could use some green tea , in my repertoire, that's for sure. All right. Well listen a little bit about Omar as we get started. Omar is a computer scientist by training who discovered along the way that his real passion is working with. People and helping young people in particular discover their potential from launching a social, uh, enterprise , in STEM education and workforce development in the Middle East, to building partnerships and inclusive economic opportunities here in Canada.

Omar has built a reputation for connecting people ideas and opportunities in very powerful ways, and we're gonna explore that. In this conversation, he also serves as the director of the Brilliant Blue Challenge, a global ocean innovation competition helping students, I imagine the future of a blue economy.

I'm sure we'll talk about that today. So here's how I wanna start the conversation. Where today, so you've had [00:02:00] this amazing journey where you've traveled across the globe, you've done all these amazing. Things. I wanna first start talking about you and then we'll talk about the work you do. But I'm always interested when a person like yourself goes on this deep life journey and you, you, you traverse the globe and you find yourself in different places and cultures. What are the things that you're learning about yourself along the way? Let's talk about that and then we'll move into the other parts of your life. But what's teaching you about who you are?

Omar Hussein: Um, I think most of the projects that I got in myself into, I try to. To really do my best in what I know, but also go with an, , open mind. And, uh, I try to empty my cup, if I may, to learn more from people and, uh, from, uh, colleagues and, uh, and partners, , and reflect. When I reflect, I start knowing, okay, this is what I'm.

am I going in the right direction? Do I want to, uh, what I'm learning out of this, uh, how can I maybe bring, uh, [00:03:00] previous experiences to this new project? Or maybe what can I learn from this new project? So I think the more you expose yourself to opportunities, the more you learn about yourself and what works and what doesn't as well.

Tim Windsor: Yeah, that's, that's a really good point. So, , your training is. In this deeply process driven, uh, get, you know, you get all the code right, and it all stays in place world, but you actually live today in a world that isn't quite as neat and tidy as that. And that's this world , of social enterprise and connection with people, which obviously isn't quite as linear.

So at what point in your journey do you start to realize that maybe the thing you trained for isn't necessarily the thing you're made for or destined for?

Omar Hussein: So, um, maybe I can tell you a bit of background as well. And tell you a bit about the journey. It can help a bit, uh, inform that question. So, graduated from Egypt in computer science. , Then I was visiting Lebanon. I, uh. And I liked the country [00:04:00] and I stayed. So, uh, it was stable back then. I worked as a software developer for a couple of years and I was teaching at university a couple of computer science courses, and then I realized that this is exactly what I don't want to do in life.

One of the best realizations of my life, that I'm, I'm more of a people's person than machines. And, uh, I didn't want to work in academia, especially when there is a disengagement with industry. , So maybe during that phase, uh, this is where I really, , made the move. But, um, I think I've, I felt it earlier when I was, studying, um, computer science at university.

It didn't really click with me. I, I wasn't enjoying being all the day on coding and, and what have you, but, and not having as much interactions, but also always wanted to have an impact. And I felt like, I don't know if working at a typical software firm. Working on, I don't know, apps to deliver food is exactly what I want to do as impact.

I really want to do [00:05:00] something beyond that. I wanted to grow the impact as well. so I think , the moment that really hit me was when I was, uh. Working as a software developer. Uh, in my first, the first company that I've worked with, a colleague told me that, um, are you enjoying what you're doing?

I said, what do you mean enjoy? I just do, it's just work. Uh, and, uh, and I don't know any better. I don't want to be wasting four years of my life, from university and, uh. And I feel that, that, to go vain, I want to make sure that, again, I, I, this is what I, how I'm trained and what I, I was trained to do.

And I don't wanna waste the four years of university. So he, he told me back then, wouldn't it be better than wasting, I don't know, 30, 40 years of your life and something that you don't enjoy? And it's really, it's really helped me hard, uh, in the core. And I think a couple of weeks, days that I resigned and, uh, I went on a journey to discover myself.

Tim Windsor: Uh, [00:06:00] that's amazing. Again, if you're listening in, I always say you're listening for a reason, and I'm just gonna challenge you with what Omar's saying. Maybe you're locked down in a life or a world or a career that's not giving you satisfaction. It's not really what you're meant to do, and you haven't been able to.

Sort of say, Hey, maybe I'll make a different change. Maybe this conversation's for you, as you think about you can contemplate, you know, life is short, and if you stay stuck in something that really isn't for you, that would be a tremendous, uh, disservice not only to yourself, but to others. And you also might be missing the impact that you can have.

So, just a challenge to you as you're listening in, as you take some things from Omar's story. So I just gotta clarify, so like within weeks you're like, okay, I'm done. I I'm gonna do something different. Can I ask you, was that. Unusual for you or throughout your life have you've been a person who's, who's been able to do that?

Omar Hussein: First time, so I always, wanted to challenge things, but I didn't take big steps like this. That was the first big step, I would say, career move, and especially that I don't, I didn't know what I want to [00:07:00] do next. That's a very big move. Uh, so, um, but it was one of the best realization. At least I knew that, okay, this is exactly what I don't want to do.

I will remove it from my list, try to figure out what I wanna do next. So it's, it's really freeing to feel that, okay, this is not what I want to do. Okay, so what, maybe I focus on what I want to do, uh, next. Uh, so it was a big decision, but, uh, I've, I, I was always reflecting and trying to learn more about myself and, um, I wouldn't know more about myself.

unless I tried it. So I, I had to go through software development, uh, working in software development, I mean, and also teaching at university, uh, and then realizing, no, this is not for me.

Tim Windsor: so you make this, you, you fall out of the sky now and you realize I'm gonna go in a different direction. what are some of the first things that you do in this new season of your life, and how do you start discovering the world that you're in now?

Omar Hussein: Sorry, you mean [00:08:00] back then when, when

Tim Windsor: Back then. So what is the first, yeah, what's the first move you make and where do you go after you, you leave? And how does it start moving you towards where your journey is now?

Omar Hussein: So I always say to others when they are exploring, what they wanna do, what's their real value in life is that you try things and then reflect. So I think this is what I did back then is I tried software development and, uh, working in academia and then I said no, and then I reflected.

So I went on a, camping, trip for solo camping. Uh, and uh. I reflected a lot. What do I wanna do? What's my, what's my purpose? What's the meaning of life kind of thing. Uh, and then, um, I realized that we're here in this world to have an impact and that I really wanted to have an impact in the education space. I think it was me trying to, tell younger self that yeah, you can explore things earlier. You can try new things. You don't need to worry, you [00:09:00] don't need to be stuck in one direction. uh, You don't need to be told, uh, that this is the career for you. you can explore your own path as well.

So, uh, this is where I, uh. I realized, okay, this is what I want to do. I want to have an impact in the education space, uh, as a start. And then it evolved from there.

Tim Windsor: So you start , moving in this direction, is it always focused towards younger people in a younger generation? For you, in your journey, is that one of the constants in the last while or is it, not necessarily just focused there?

Omar Hussein: Great question. So it started with, uh, youth and it's still, uh, an ongoing, uh, passion. I really wanna support, uh, students, especially around high school. I think it's a very critical age group. Uh, usually, not as supported as they should be. so I want to give them a sense of. , Freedom.

You can explore new things. You can fail, you can try, uh, you can ask hard questions, but also, um, listen [00:10:00] to them. 'cause they're usually not listening to it. They're being presented to ideas all the time. So it's truly listening to them. and yeah, so since I think, that camping trip I started, uh, couple of months later, I started a social enterprise in technology education and STEM education for youth.

And I continue doing that until today. But I also, since then, I think that was in 2012, I think since then, I, um, it evolved as well to, to supporting other, uh, age groups and other, uh, other causes as well.

Tim Windsor: So it's, but it starts with this thing about youth, which I find very fascinating. It reminds me more of something. A couple of years ago I did a leadership, experience in my local community. And at the time my, my nephew was the principal of a high school here in the city I live in, and he. Done a lot of different things with his students over the years, and we partnered together and what we did is we actually brought [00:11:00] a group of high school leaders into this experience that was typically for business leaders.

So we had business leaders, we had social, community leaders, and we had a group of student high school leaders all together for this leadership development experience. I'll tell you that I left that experience, Omar, with a tremendous hope for the future. Bright, caring, passionate, articulate students, who just when they contributed to the conversation, which they did, you really stepped back almost.

Just took it in. It was amazing. So, you know, I, this what an awesome opportunity to impact people in that very, very formative stage of their life as they're trying to figure out not only what they want to do, but maybe more importantly, who they want to be. Uh, because we spend so much time, particularly in North America, think, you know, Indoctrinating kids into what they need to be for a career. We don't often focus a lot on who they need to be , [00:12:00] as they do that. And this is a big part of your journey 'cause you're discovering who you are along the way. So I just find this fascinating how it all comes together. How does this connect with this, uh, brilliant blue challenge, this, uh, this initiative for students?

Explain that to me.

Omar Hussein: Sure. So, um, I ran this, um, social enterprise in the Middle East for around a decade before I immigrated to Canada. And since I moved to Canada, I've been trying to see how I can add value and where, uh, so, think I told you this, Tim offline, uh, in my second maybe year, I've made like 2,500 meetings, when I moved to Canada trying to understand who's doing what, where are the opportunities in Canada, especially in the fields that I'm interested in.

And as I was exporting opportunities on the east coast of Canada, I realized that there's a huge industry or. See, uh, an ecosystem called the Blue Economy, everything related to the ocean. on the east coast of Canada. Very interconnected [00:13:00] ecosystem, and very little engagement with youth.

So it's a perfect recipe for my previous life. So I then want to invent the wheel. I joined forces with an, , stem medication provider on the east coast of Canada. after. Sharing with them a vision of how can we engage youth on a, not just on on a, on a Canadian level, but also on a global level, how can we engage you within the blue economy?

And especially, I got excited 'cause I realized that I cannot think of a better industry or series of industries that has a career for almost everyone from underwater robotics to shipping and ship building to marine conservation. You name it. And is that impactful from climate change and food security and everything in between?

So it, I got super excited and I, I realized that this is an opportunity that's still on tap. There is not a lot of efforts, put into, uh, creating pathways for the students, especially around high schools in the blue economy in Canada, [00:14:00] nor across the world. So,

Tim Windsor: Wow, that's very powerful. That is amazing. So you, you've used the term several times and I wanna make sure that , we're all defining it the same way and that my listeners are defining it the way you would want them to define it. So when you use the term like a social, enterprise. What does that mean to you and how do you see the enterprise or business or however that, whatever that term means, and the social thing coming together.

When you use this term, how are you using it and why is that term so important for you?

Omar Hussein: , I think, um, a good friend of mine when I was still exploring in that, in that phase when I was, uh, rediscovering what I want to do next, uh, always, uh, he was a good friend of mine. He always, uh. Said, think capitalist and socialist. It's really, uh, sparked something in me that, yes, I really want to make sure that I, I'm here in this world to have an impact, but also I'm not a tree hugger.

I want to make sure that I [00:15:00] make ends meet. I want to make that I, I live comfortably. Uh, I know that if we're not living comfortably, if you are not, uh. Stable financially. Your, your creativity is really diminished, a lot of things really, um, uh, you, you're not in, in best spot.

So if you're not able to, uh, to really, uh, take care of yourself and your family, you are not be able to really have a, um, a big impact in this world. So, uh. I think the simple way to define social enterprise, at least in my terms is, uh, a business with a, purpose. so, um, it could be a non-profit, social enterprise, could be a for-profit social enterprise.

Regardless of the structure or where, the generation of revenues coming from, uh, it should, it should be focusing on the mission, not on the the profits.

Tim Windsor: Yep.

Omar Hussein: or the revenues, it should, uh, and in my mind, it shouldn't be either making impact or generating revenues to sustain the efforts. It should be [00:16:00] both.

Tim Windsor: Yeah. No, and it's brilliant. I really love the way you use that. I mean, this idea of, of thinking capitalistic , and executing. From a, a socialistic, from a social perspective, it's a powerful idea and blend. I even think, and I, I love again. I think terminology matters a lot. You know, we often use that term and we, we've used it in the conversation today, we talk about for-profit or not for profit.

I actually like this idea of, for-profit or , social enterprise. Because when we say not for profit, if we're not careful. Almost like is there's no profit, meaning there's no value. But in fact, social, uh, entrepreneurship and social endeavors has tremendous profit in our world. It profits our minds, our hearts.

Uh, it may not profit in the same way economically, but I could make an argument that social enterprise, when done well, actually contributes to the underlying economic drivers of a community. So I, I love this way that you're approaching this and [00:17:00] recognizing that there is a certain amount of. Economic funding that has to be generated either through donation or in this case, through the value of the transaction or the value of the work you're bringing.

And I love that idea because I think sometimes people get so locked down and we see these as a dichotomized, , thing as either we're either this or that. But you have this idea of bringing this together in a both and scenario. And I'd be interested to know as you've sort of walked that out. How difficult is it to get people to understand this idea that there's this both end when it comes to this, or they tend to wanna live on one side or the other of this idea?

Omar Hussein: It really depends on the person, but I feel like, uh, we still have this dichotomy that it's either or and uh, it requires people who have been, , through either or and are not enjoying what they're doing the way, or they think there are better ways. So. I can speak, I can write a small book on [00:18:00] why I don't like chasing grants and, and donations for the nonprofit world.

, A lot of especially, um, in those interesting times we live in, I think more and more nonprofits see that this is not sustainable and we need to do something about it. We cannot be, uh. Only focusing on grants, uh, and government funding in order to really continue operations and grow the impact.

, So this is where they start getting pushed into, okay, let's explore other ways. And maybe social enterprise is one answer to that. Uh, also the, the for-profit world, , I think a lot of people struggle with a sense of meaning and purpose in life. When they're just there working really hard and then they realize that they're not really having a sense of meaning, they're just making good money and that's it.

I don't, I think they feel like, no, there is something different that needs to be done. Maybe social enterprise could be enough an option. So those only those who reflect and really see that there [00:19:00] could be a third way or maybe other ways that are more receptive to the idea.

Tim Windsor: it's a great way of looking at it. And I like this idea of the third way. I've had some conversations with people on my podcast in the past, uh, who've talked about this idea of the third way. And I think this is another example of a third way of approaching something, a different perspective that we can take.

So, so listen, I've got a couple questions that I wanna. Just the rest of our conversation around. Um, and I'll give you, I'm gonna give you these questions and I'll let you decide what order you wanna approach them in. So I'd like you to think about an experience that you've had recently that has really delighted you and excited you a lot, and ultimately maybe even been better than you expected in one of the engagements that you are working in.

I'd like you to share that. Then on the other side, I'd like you to share an experience maybe you've had in the last, uh, maybe three to six months that's held some disappointment for you, uh, in something that you had hoped would be different or better, but you're finding some [00:20:00] disappointment. I think, you know, oftentimes we tend to think of life as it's always just gonna be going well, and it isn't.

But there's, there's a stance between what is going well and what often isn't. So I'm interested to know something that's gone real well and you have some pride and excitement in, and something maybe that's creating some disappointment for you. You decide how you wanna handle them.

Omar Hussein: Can go in your order. , So I think, This has been a repeating, experience, uh, since I got myself into STEM education and, technology education. , Recently, as, as I I did in the past is, um, receiving messages from parents and students that you've changed our lives.

Tim Windsor: Hmm.

Omar Hussein: I, cannot think of, Something that touches me more. then I feel like I really added value in, trajectory of a young person's life. So I think this always, hits me in the court and, uh, I, I kind of got addicted to it. I wanna, feed it more As I add more [00:21:00] impact. So not, 'cause I wanna, have, more Igor enjoy this. It's just, I feel like this is what makes the hard work worth it. And the journey is worth it. So I feel like at least I'm doing something right. I'm trying to add value here and I'm getting some, uh, validation that I'm doing something right.

Tim Windsor: Uh, . That's very powerful and, uh, what an honor to receive a call like that or get an email or a text from somebody when you realize that , you've been a person of impact in their life. I mean, here's the thing is you never know. You and I never know. Who is in front of us and how we're ultimately impacting them and where they're gonna go in their life, we have no idea.

You could be impacting, frankly, the next global leader 20 years from now. You could be impacting somebody who comes into a place of privilege or authority or power that actually could have influence across the globe. You have no [00:22:00] idea. And the exciting part is, is that the moment you meet them, they're just this ordinary every day.

You know, young adult, but yet you're having an opportunity to shape and impact them, and you have no idea ultimately of the reverberation of that. So what an awesome thing to do every day. That, that is amazing.

Omar Hussein: Appreciate, and there are many ways that you can impact others, but I feel like, this is the ultimate goal. Is to, I think this is the meaning of life, is we're not here to enjoy life. I don't think this is the best planet to enjoy life. Uh, I think we're here to have an impact and to add, add value. Uh, so that's for the first question, second question.

Maybe I'll give you, uh, a bit of a longer answer. I, I think, , so disappointment, well, I don't easily get disappointed, but I get disappointed when, , people are, are working for, uh, their self interest, even in, um, mission driven [00:23:00] organization. I do feel it. , Sometimes with partners, sometimes with colleagues, sometimes with, uh, different stakeholders and, I feel like.

If you're working, especially in a, social enterprise or, uh, or an impactful organization trying to do good in the world, uh, and in an ecosystem that is mainly, uh, in the nonprofit world, for example, 'cause I, a lot of my work is in that space. I always had this, I know, I felt like we're, uh, we're here to really add value in this world.

If we, if we're not here to add value, maybe we're not in the right. Industry, but I feel like a lot of people are in those, in the non-profit world of ly. Uh, they're not there for the impact. They're not there for the mission. They're there for, career opportunities. They're there for, uh, personal gains.

And it really disappoints me that you're, you feel like you're, um, sometimes, . Moving on your own rather than supporting [00:24:00] each other and trying to really add value and grow the impact if you like. People sometimes are very shortsighted. They just wanna, how can we, , get value out of an interaction rather than really, uh, work collectively towards an impact.

So such interactions usually really, uh, also disappoint me.

Tim Windsor: Hmm. Um, by the way, thanks for sharing that. And I, and I can appreciate that. And it's interesting 'cause you used this word about collective, the collective good, the collective experience. And then on the other side, it sounds like you're describing again, a little bit of that hyper individualism that comes in and causes, uh, that, that war.

I'm interested to know, like when you look at. Like your experience, uh, where you were born growing up, and I don't know the answer to this and I could be wrong in my supposition, but, do you believe that you learned, from a young age about the value of a collective understanding of, of experience? Do you believe that in North America, now you live in Canada, do you believe that, this is [00:25:00] something that we need to continue to learn more about?

Do you think we, we operate out of a more individualistic mindset by nature? Or do you think that that none of that is really part of the problem?

Omar Hussein: I think by nature we have both sides and ourselves, but, uh, it's Which side do you choose where do you wanna be? So think generally speaking, and I'm overgeneralizing, um, the western world has been mostly individualistic, as we all know. Uh. but also the, the Eastern word is, is no longer as communal as it was in the past.

Uh, but still you can find some, communal aspects of things. Also, you can find it at work. I'm overgeneralizing, but it feels like, uh, when you're working within a team, you have each other's backs when you're working in, uh, when while you're in a neighborhood, you have each other's backs. It's not, , barely knowing the person or just smiling and saying [00:26:00] it's a, it's a, it's a nice day.

It's actually really knowing the person trying to support them when, when they need support. So, and I think. I'm, I'm, obviously, I'm leaning to more towards how can I help and, uh, where, how can, uh, we grow, together as a, as a community or as a, as a team, regardless of the, structure I'm talking about.

Tim Windsor: Yeah. No, and and I think that's a really important part of it. So when you look back, just like in your upbringing. So the kind of things that are important to you, are these things that were transferred to you from a, from a parent, from an individual in your life who was trying to transfer some of these thoughts to you?

Or do you find yourself in quite a unique position within your, even your family structure, in relationship to what's important to you?

Omar Hussein: I think all of the above. So all of the above shape us, right? parents, uh, family, society, uh, friends. but. I, I was telling you maybe before our, uh, podcast is that, [00:27:00] um, my typical day is 12, back to back meetings every day. Uh, ironically, I'm an introvert. Uh, so, uh, I developed this later on in that.

I, I am, I try to connect. With people and network and so on. But, , I think as an introvert I always reflected, so I had interactions with people, learn from them, try to reflect, okay, what, how do I want to behave in this word and what I need to add value? And so I think the introvert side of me helped with that dot.

Tim Windsor: Hmm, interesting. And help me on that for a second. What, what do you think en the enablement was from your part of your personality, which is more introverted? What do you think that it actually enables or informs that is important to you?

Omar Hussein: So I think reflection is, is key. So I always reflect, I always sit, uh, on my own or go on a walk. Or camp or something and then say, okay, where am I heading? Am I going the right direction? What do I [00:28:00] learn from this mistake or this challenge? and then continuously trying to learn and, uh, pay attention. I maybe, I'm, I'm not always the, uh, loudest in the room, but I pay attention.

Tim Windsor: Well, that's by the way, that's a great provocation. 'cause I wouldn't say that I'm always as good as I should be about that, Omar. but what a great gift you can give in a room is to actually pay attention to others, uh, to what's being said, sometimes without words. What's being communicated, what people are feeling.

Uh, and again, if you're listening in, uh, you know, what does that mean for you? I'd encourage you to contemplate what does it mean to pay attention, , a little bit more or maybe a lot more depending on who you are to the world around you and to people around you. Uh, you know, we live in a time in our culture and our history where, I think unfortunately a lot of people feel lonely and not heard.

What a wonderful gift to give people, Omar, is the ability to pay attention [00:29:00] and to listen and to enter into their journey with them. That's, that's a phenomenal gift that you're giving people, and I, I have deep appreciation for that.

Omar Hussein: Appreciate. I think, in my teens, I think, I realized that, this is something that I enjoy and I'm good at. So I started listening to friends. And I became kind of their, uh, their shrink at some point. Uh, people coming to me all the time sharing about their, their challenges, and I, I feel like, uh, this is part of my impact back then, but at least I can let people vent and, they usually feel better.

So I developed that also, through 

Tim Windsor: Yeah. Yeah. And I, I, and going back to something you said earlier in the conversation, just very interesting to me. I mean, you saw it as a tremendous gift to have this revelation of what you shouldn't be doing. I think sometimes when people make a choice and they get down a path, sometimes I think they feel like they can't turn back, that they've committed to it, either to themselves or maybe people around them, and they feel [00:30:00] obligated.

You know, I think on one level, obligation isn't a bad thing, but too much obligation can be, you know, I have this idea about sort of what drives us and I, that for me, I think of that I, I wanna live my life in such a way and do the things. From a proposition that I get to do them, not I have to do them.

And whenever I feel that I get to do something, my agency, my passion, my, my commitment, my ownership obviously rises. When I feel I'm doing something more out of obligation, it doesn't always feel quite the same. And so for me, part of finding value and worth for me is what do I get to do. What do I choose to do?

What am I gonna do with my time? How am I gonna show up? All very important things. So, so I, I love that, part of the conversation. So let me ask you this. Let's say somebody's listening in and they're at a point in their life where they're wondering what they should invest in next, and they're trying to figure it out, and they're a bit stuck.

What would be your [00:31:00] best counsel to them as they sort of go through that experience? What would you encourage them to think about or to do?

Omar Hussein: The good news is that I have these conversations all the time. So I have usually an answer. Uh, again, that's my answer, my, view. so I usually share two things. Uh, one is, I don't know if I shared this with you in the past. But for the audience I came across early on also in my, , career, the Japanese concept of Ikigai. So, uh, for those who don't know, uh, it's the Japanese view, on the perfect job, or reason for being and their, uh, translation, so in their views is the intersection of what you love. What you're good at, what the word needs and what you can get paid for. So this is one of the frameworks that I really use, , often.

Uh, and that's kind of my North Star. So if I find the sweet spots, then the section of what I love, what I'm good at, the word needs, and [00:32:00] what I can get paid for, I'm in a happy place.

So that's my, the first part. The second part is that, a lot of people think that they can figure out their next steps.

Uh, and maybe I'm talking at least from changing careers or, or path, through their minds or reading. I often say that no, don't leave it to your mind. Try new things. You there is, there are a lot of things that you don't know un unless you try. So I the second part of the answer is try new things and reflect. 

if you don't do that, uh, you wouldn't know about a specific path or a specific career. You need to try it even on a small scale, even on a small project, try it and then reflect my, is this something that I'm good at? Or, I'm enjoying, uh, do I see myself in that space? So those are mainly my two advice wise.

Tim Windsor: brilliant. And when you talk about trying it, what I'm thinking as I hear that, which is really interesting, I think the problem when people get stuck and inertia you know, takes over, they get stuck When you [00:33:00] try things,

you still stay in motion. And if we think about even the principle, like think about. Of a vehicle. You know when a car is in a parking lot and just sitting there, it's a little bit harder to turn it and get it to go where you want. But when you're on the highway and you're moving and you just touch the steering wheel, you know you'll find yourself in the next lane.

That forward momentum of trying something, you become a lot more guidable or steerable when you're in motion. But when you get stuck and then you just sort of stand there and you settle in and you atrophy, it's very, very hard to move forward. So the the try it and move into it and test it and feel it out and then let some kind of guidance take over, whether that's, you know, your experience guiding you, the experience of others.

Maybe some people see that maybe as a little bit more as an esoteric or spiritual experience, however they see it. But I love the idea of just. Just try it, get out and do some stuff. 'cause I think so many people, when they get into that stage where they're in this [00:34:00] contemplation, they can get stuck. So what a powerful and simple way.

And again, so if you're listening in, if you're stuck, what are you gonna try? Try something new. Try something different. 

Omar Hussein: yep. Exactly. And also, um, it doesn't need to be the next best move. It just, just a move. Make the move, try it. Uh, if it works out, that's great. If not, like I did, uh, that's not for me, and I remove it from my list and 

then try the next. 

Tim Windsor: it's so important. I was talking to somebody recently, I was coaching one of my clients and they were really stuck, in fact, they used the word, I feel like I'm procrastinating a bit stuck right now. And I said, well, well, why is that? And they said, well, like there's.

There's like 20 things I need to do, and I said, Hmm, actually I don't agree. And the person looked at me, I was doing this virtually. He goes, well, what do you mean? Yes, I got 20 things. I said, no, you have one thing to do. You have the next thing to do. I think so often we all get, we get bogged down where it's like, I've got so many things to do, [00:35:00] actually.

You probably always just have one thing or one more thing to do, and if we can change our perspective on that, it doesn't seem so daunting. It's like, yeah, I just have this one next move and then I can figure out my next move. But if I got 40 things to do or 20 things to do, ah man, I don't know if I'm even getting outta bed today.

Omar Hussein: Yep. Yep. So I have a slightly, uh, different answer, but it's similar. Uh, so I usually say, especially, I think we're not designed to do one thing in this world back, in, um, I know the Roman civilization, for example, that you have. People who are poets, who are, uh, also farmers who are also, uh, we we're not designed to do one thing.

So I, I, I sympathize with people who want to do multiple things as well. So I usually say maybe try your best, top three things.

Tim Windsor: Yeah.

Omar Hussein: If you really wanna do multiple things and you wanna try multiple things, maybe not 20, maybe try start with three.

Tim Windsor: Yeah, and get out and [00:36:00] try it and get doing it. Listen, Omar, what a great conversation and I really appreciate it today and It's been great to get to know you. I mean, I was introduced to you several months ago and we've had some great conversations and I wanted to have you on the show because I wanted to share a conversation with you that a larger audience could listen into.

I find you, uh, an extremely. , Inspiring individual. Uh, you're very thoughtful. , you have a deep compassion inside of you that I hear when you talk of great concern for the wellbeing and the benefit of others, which I love. but at the same time, and I don't like the word, but 'cause it sounds like I negated and at the same time I'm gonna remove that word, but, and at the same time you understand again that if, if we live at the intersection of these things in our life.

One of them is, it goes back to we said, what I can get paid for. It's that blending again of that deeply capitalistic understanding that whether we like it or not, we live in a world that's, about economy and money [00:37:00] and, and provision and all that. At the same time, we wanna marry a deeply, a deep commitment to the social good of the planet, of, uh, individuals, of our communities, of, of our neighbors, our friends, and when we can bring that together in an intersection.

Then we have a very powerful mixture. in a sense it's almost like we, where nuclear fusion can happen. It's like you bring these together and you get a, you get an energetic release that is so very powerful. And again, if. if you're interested in this and you wanna explore more, Omar, if they, if somebody wanted to find you and explore your world and learn from you, or even find out more about what you're doing or maybe invite you into something you don't even know about today, what's the best way for them to find you?

Omar Hussein: So they can connect me with me on LinkedIn if they'd like. Um, we, I think, uh, we, we can help, uh, share that. Um, currently I don't have a website, but I work on multiple projects. But yeah, shoot me a message and I'm always, [00:38:00] uh, one coffee or green tea 

Tim Windsor: Yeah. Uh oh. Hey, that's awesome. And again, if you just want the proper spelling. So it's OMAR and it's H-U-S-S-E-I-N, in case you're looking up. Omar. Omar, thank you so much for your time. And again, if you've listened in, I always say you've listened in for a reason. Thanks for listening in.

Do me a favor, email me@timatunmodified.com. DM me and let me know and let Omar know what you're doing, how you're uncorking. This we call these uncork conversations, how you're uncorking this idea and pouring it out in your life for the positive benefit of yourself and others. Thanks for listening in.

Have a great day. Cheers.