the POWER of PULLING TOGETHER: UNCORKED with ABBIE PECKHAM

What if your most significant strength wasn’t just how hard you pull but how well you synchronize with others? 

In this episode of the UNCOMMODiFiED Podcast, Tim Windsor syncs up with Abby Peckham, the Head Coach of the High School Girls Program at Saratoga Rowing Association in Saratoga Springs, New York. A coach who has learned that the rhythm of life and leadership has far more to do with trust, timing, and teamwork than we like to admit. From the hum of bubbles beneath a shell gliding across the water to a young woman sobbing in a McDonald's parking lot before discovering the power of showing up, Abby shares real, unfiltered stories of pain, presence, perseverance, and what happens when we learn to row as one.

Whether you’re leading a team, building a business, parenting through chaos, or simply trying to get your life back on track, this episode delivers. We discuss how our blades, which don’t cut through the water but instead plant into it for leverage, are like the commitments that drive us forward. We explore why synchronized effort trumps solo hustle, why posture becomes more important when the wind hits hardest, and how leadership requires us to be fully present and unflinchingly honest. 

This isn’t just a rowing lesson—it’s a blueprint for navigating the waters of life, business, and becoming UNCOMMODiFiED in a world that constantly tells you to paddle alone.

Tim Windsor
the UNCOMMODiFiED Podcast – Host & Guide
tim@uncommodified.com
https://uncommodified.com/
  
PRODUCERS: Kris MacQueen & Alyne Gagne
MUSIC BY: https://themacqueens.ca/

Transcript

TRANSCRIPTION:

PLEASE NOTE: UNCOMMODiFiED Podcast episode transcriptions are raw text files and have not been proofed or edited. They are what they are … Happy Reading.

© UNCOMMODiFiED & TIM WINDSOR

[00:00:00] What if the key to extraordinary success isn't found solely an individual resilience, but in the relentless rhythm of rowing together? What if it's ultimately fueled by the compelling power of unity, alignment, and synchronized purpose. Ultimate success ultimately isn't a solo journey. It's a boat propelled by many oars, guided through rough waters, by collective spirits, mutual commitments, and the courage to trust each other's stroke in the water.

Because at the end of the day, when you cross the finish line, rowing as one isn't just about coordination. It is about connection. It's about configuration, and it's about catalyzing the combined strength of your team to create momentum like you've never experienced before. Hey, my friends. Welcome back to the End Commodified podcast.

I'm Tim WinDor, and today my guest on the show is Abby Peckham. Abby, welcome [00:01:00] to the show. 

Thank you so much for having me. 

It's gonna be a great conversation. So a bit about my guests so that you can get introduced to Abby. Abby actually is the wife of one of the people that I work with at, a company in the area where Abby and her husband Nick live.

And so, uh, I got a chance to meet Abby at the Christmas party and now I said, Hey. You gotta come on my podcast. And so here's Abby on my podcast. So why did I wanna have Abby on my podcast? Well, here it is. Abby is the head coach of a high school girls program at Saratoga, , rowing Association in Saratoga Springs, New York.

If you by the way, if you've never been, you gotta go a beautiful place. The very place where she first fell in love with that sport of rowing as a middle schooler. As a former division one recruit, Abby found her way into coaching after her own college drawing program, lost its funding and a volunteer coaching opportunity reignited her passion for the sport.

Abby is dedicated to helping young athletes not only chase excellence on the water, but also build the resilience. Confidence and leadership skills [00:02:00] that will serve them far beyond their roaring careers. The ultimate mission, her ultimate mission at the end of the day, is to empower the next generation, one practice, one race, and one lesson at a time.

Now, this is an uncorked conversation, Abby. So we're gonna uncork a drink together. So I got a question. What are you drinking tonight? Now remember, you're a coach of a rowing team, so what does a coach or a rowing team drink at 

nighttime? 

we, I'm actually, I'm drinking a Wegmans Seltzer right now. 

Oh, very nice. It's little 

we don't have any Wegmans near us. Uh, but it's funny, my whole coaching staff is obsessed with Wegmans seltzer. So whenever we go out to Western New York or Massachusetts, someone always has to stop and stockpile Cases of seltzer. 

Cases of seltzer. This is a non-alcoholic

Correct? Yes. a 

non-alcoholic ginger seltzer 

just so you know, you know, to balance out your non-alcoholic seltzer, I have a white claw, hard seltzer, natural natural lime though. 

Yep. 

uh, I'm gonna [00:03:00] try that. I'm gonna try that on. So I don't drink a lot of, uh, these kind of drinks, but I thought I'll go seltzer too.

Hmm. Cheers to you, Abby. 

Cheers. 

Okay. Listen, every great conversation for me starts with a great question. So here's what I want you to think about as we start. So you're in this world. This world is very different than the world that a lot of people live in. So my question is, what's the world of boats Are they call boats the special boats?

Okay. There you go. So you don't even know what they're called. Uh, what, so what is that world and oars and rowing and all this stuff, what does it teach you about life leadership and how to help people learn to fail and to flourish? what are you learning along the way and how did you get to where you are now?

Yeah, to me, rowing teaches a lot about it's okay to fail and a lot of the time. The greatest breakthroughs and the greatest moments are on the other side of failure. 

and I wouldn't have gotten into this [00:04:00] position of um, and gone down this whole career route without feeling like I went through one of the largest failures , because as a youth athlete, one of the biggest things that we're all kind of. Focused on is recruited as a division one athlete. It's like the big focus of high school rowing. Like you wanna compete at the top level for your but you're also looking at that next step of how can I get recruited and continue this journey.

And the funding for my collegiate program, I got recruited to, the funding was cut at the end of my freshman year. and. Obviously that I didn't have any play in that happening, but to me it was like my life flipped upside down and it felt like a massive failure because they handed us this opportunity of, okay, like you've got 12 hours.

Let us know if you want to open up to the NCAA that you're looking to get recruited to a different program or if you're not interested. And so we were given this [00:05:00] super short time limit. And in my core, I just knew that at the moment, transferring to compete somewhere else didn't feel like the right step.

It didn't feel like the healthiest step So that felt like a huge failure for me. but down the road, that failure led to me stumbling my way into coaching, which has been like the greatest. Opportunity that could have fallen into my lap. 

That's amazing. So for you, your story is born out of failure. There's this massive failure of this program and you're in the midst of this thing. You gotta figure out what it looks like. And so in fact, that takes you into a world of coaching that you may or may not have found. Based on the fact that something didn't happen the way you expected it, but you stepped in and said, you know, I, I could move in this direction.

Yeah, I had no clue. I thought I was just gonna finish my four years of collegiate rowing and then go on to be a [00:06:00] physical therapist and just live a totally different life. , And after I.

did one year of volunteering for a girls' school out in Buffalo, I was like, this is the coolest thing ever. And so I just started talking to any coaches that would talk to me and just riding along and following any coaches that I could follow.

And I just kind of stumbled my way into. Some really cool opportunities and there were some times that I worked for like, pretty much no money and my parents thought I was absolutely crazy, but I was like, this is the coolest thing ever. I'm in college when I'm gonna have the opportunity to do this again.

, And it led to a really cool position running the high school girls team at the program that I grew up that like developed this passion for the sport. 

That's amazing. So, so what attracted you personally to rowing in the beginning? Because obviously you had this attraction to rowing, which is not, I mean. I, I, maybe, maybe it's different in the States, but for sure where I live, it's fairly atypical. Now, we do have a fairly significant [00:07:00] rowing club and community about an hour south of where I am.

In a place called Niagara on the Lake Ontario. You have the Henley there and all of this kind of stuff, which is quite famous. but how did you find your way into this, this rowing, from a sport perspective?

Yeah, I was super fortunate where one of my best family friends had an older daughter who tried rowing out and they got a rowing machine in their And so we were all over there for like a family party and all of us were down in the basement and she was like showing how to us how to use this rowing machine.

And it was just fascinating 'cause I've, I've always enjoyed sports, but I was never great at playing basketball or playing soccer. It just didn't really spark any joy in me. And I was like, oh, this is kind of a cool motion. And the feeling of the way that you push your legs and then pry the hands into your body and the coordination and the flow to it was really cool.

And so my parents then signed me up for like a two week summer program. and [00:08:00] I signed up with a few friends. And the feeling of getting into the boat and the way that your blades place into the water and the how you push your legs. But you're really like hanging onto handles that are pushing the water and the feeling to how all of that gets the rowing shell to move underneath you is the coolest feeling.

And then as you add more bodies into those boats and the way that the boat speed can pick up, and one of the things that I talk about with my girls pretty frequently is. Um, when the rowing shell is moving at a really good speed and you're really cruising, you can kind of hear the bubbles running underneath the shell a little bit.

Um, and sometimes you're trying to get the movements to be in time and the, hull up to such a significant speed that you wanna be able to hear the bubbles. it's the coolest feeling. 

So in a sense, really, you just sort of, if you're doing it right and you got some speed, you're sort of skimming 

Yeah. Yeah. Every time the blades enter the [00:09:00] water, it's almost like a peg going into a peg board, and then you're pushing against the peg to move the boat past where the peg enters. So the blade isn't actually moving the water, the blade is planting against the water to push the boat past that point. And so every time you start with the push of your legs, the boat kind of picks up out of the water and planes on top and so the goal is to kind of keep it running on top of the water. So a lot of the time I'll be talking with my athletes to tap the boat along, don't let the boat settle down into the water. 

Interesting. So again, I know nothing about this world, so this is a great conversation for me because oftentimes when I have my conversation, I know a fair amount about the worlds I'm talking about. I know zero about this world. So, and I love to learn. So this is, this is great for me. So help me understand.

So the skills, the technique and skill required to row single 

Yes, 

and the technique and, and the skills required to row with multiple people in a boat. How, how, what's the maximum people you could have [00:10:00] in a, sorry. And I know it's not called a boat. 

it's okay. 

What's it called again? 

Shell. 

A shell. Okay. It seems strange to me, but a shell, it's like we're, it's like we're gliding in a peanut.

What the heck is this? A shell. Okay. so what's the maximum number of people Who, who row in a shell.

So the maximum number of people would be eight rowers and then one coxswain. So, nine people total, but only eight of them would have oars. 

so it could be up to eight. And as you as one. Okay, so the skillset required and a technique to row as an individual, and then compare that to rowing with two people, three people, four people, whatever. Is it fundamentally different or is it subtly different? 

it is subtly different?

there are two different types of rowing. there's sculling and then sweep. and those two are fairly different types of styles because Sculling, each athlete only has one ore. But, uh, in sculling they have two. 

Okay.

so with that, you're dealing with like one handle versus two handles.

So there's a decent amount of [00:11:00] difference there. but the core concept of the movement is very, very simple. , like we start from the catch position, which is where the blade enters the water. Your shoulders are slightly in front of your hips, your knees are pulled up towards your chest, and your arms are out long.

Your blade enters in that position and you push your legs, you swing your shoulders behind your hips, and then you pull your hands into the body and then to get back into that position, it's just the opposite. So your hands move out first, your shoulders lean forward, and then your knees draw upwards. So the core concept of the movement is very simple.

Um, and there are a lot of coaches out there who love to kind of. Dissect the stroke and make it super, super complicated and work very itty bitty parts of it. which that I find to be quite helpful for racing the single. but when you're working with a larger team boat, it's [00:12:00] much easier to focus on like.

The big, simple concepts and executing them extremely well, and especially with the youth level, the more complicated you make it for them, the less you're usually gonna get out of it. 

Uh, fair enough. And by the way, I think that's not just for youth. I think that is in general 

life. And, And, again, you know, those of you listening on a regular basis, you know that I like to draw lessons or that along the way of things I hear, but I think that's a really good life lesson is that, you know, again, we, often think that where wisdom and where all this efficiency's gonna lie is in this complexity, but actually it's about breaking it down into its simplest form. That doesn't matter if it's in business or in life, but breaking something down to its simplest form, its most repeatable and sustainable form usually brings better success.

So there, there's probably a core relationship there. So let me ask you, is. Being in sync, being synchronized? If I'm in a boat with multiple people, is it, uh, depending on whether it's one or, or two or how I'm [00:13:00] doing that, is that critical to success? Or am I am asynchronous or synchronous with the people I'm in?

How is this working?

So the goal is to be as synchronous as possible with the team. With you. It is totally normal to have some bits of the stroke that aren't absolutely perfect because you're also working with within the boat. I primarily coach eights, so there's eight rowers, one coxin. Um, within the eight I'm gonna have eight different girls of different heights with different leg lengths, with different torso lengths.

So there's gonna be a little bit of, some of my girls that are a little bit shorter are gonna have to slow down their movements a little bit more to stay perfectly in time with the girls who are very long and lanky. 

Interesting.

And so there's some. Manipulation the shell itself and how it's set up to help match all of that up.

[00:14:00] But there's a little bit of fluctuation in trying to get that overall bigger picture to match up. So for some people, they're gonna have to move their hands a little bit slower for some people that are gonna have to lift their knees a little bit quicker to get that one fluid movement to it. So there's.

in the big picture, everything moves as one, but you're, as a coach, sometimes I'm dissecting individual by individual to get that picture together. 

That's interesting. And that's just fascinating to me. ' cause I think about, again, I think about my life or I think about in business and sometimes again, we have this idea that. You know, we're gonna go at our own pace, and that it's all individuality that contributes to the whole.

But what you're telling me here is there is some adaptation or giving up or matching towards my partners in the shell. That is helpful because if I don't, because we're different, because in this case, because we're different body types, heights, et cetera, it creates a, a disconnection or creates [00:15:00] disunity, but, so actually creating an adaptation.

One rower creates the connection to the other. That is very interesting. 'cause I, 'cause again, I think that we have this idea of we live in this hyper individualized world where it's all about, as ASAs, what this is telling me is sometimes I, have to look around and match something, my cadence, my rhythm, my whatever it would be to someone else for the greater good of what I'm trying to accomplish.

And again, if you're listening in. Maybe ask yourself, what does that mean to you? Are you in an environment where you're trying to do something together with a team and you have to understand or ask what's the subtle adaptation that you need to make for the of the whole or the benefit of what you're trying to accomplish?

That is a really interesting sort of subtlety to the world that you work in. I love that. That's interesting. Very fascinating. Okay, help me understand this. So I what I don't understand, so if I have six rowers in a boat, there's no coxswain. 

Yep. [00:16:00] 

But if there's eight rowers in a boat, now I have a coxswain.

Help me understand the history and tradi. How does, how does this work? I don't understand. All of a sudden why is there now we need somebody to tell us what to do. What happened?

Yeah, so the coxswains with the eight person boats, um, we require having the coxswain just because the speed, the potential speed of those boats is so fast that it could be dangerous if you don't have somebody like at the helm actually steering. 

Oh really?

Um, because also you, if you think about it. The direction that the rowers are facing is the opposite direction of the way the boat is going.

And so when you're in a smaller boat, so most of the boat classes we have eights, uh, which are only sweeping. and then we have our four person boats, which are quads or fours. Um, and those can be with or without a coxswain. So we've got opportunity on both ends of that. Um, and then all of our doubles and singles, none of those have coxswains. Um, [00:17:00] so the doubles and singles, you don't have coxswains in there because they're moving a lot slower, and then it would be a lot of dead weight for one to two people to move. 

Okay, so again, my ignorance about rowing is gonna be revealed. So when you row, because I think I've watched the Olympic rowing every once in a while, but I have to admit, must not be, that'd be attentive. Are you telling me that all the time? When rowing is happening, people are rowing, facing backwards to where they're going.

Yeah. 

Okay. So how does, how does that work? Because how do you f Like now you have no bearings. Like how, how, how does that work? 'cause I would find that, you know, when I row in a boat, I like to look where I'm going. 

Yeah, 

Uh, 

it's a little bit disorienting. So the nice thing is most of our championship racing happens on a fully buoyed course. So one cool. Opportunity of facing the opposite direction of the way that the boat is going is especially if you're in the lead, you get to see all of the competitors behind [00:18:00] you.

versus if you're facing the other way. When you get out ahead, you don't know what's going on right behind 

you. So that's one cool perk to that. and the nice thing about being in the buoyed lanes is you just have to stay parallel. so if you're in a boat without a coxswain, it's actually fairly simple to go straight on a buoyed course.

Um, in the fall season, we don't race on fully like Buoyed Lane courses. They're actually much longer races. Which one race we go to is the, head of the Charles, which is, 5,000 meters and weaves through Boston. You're crossing under multiple Bridges, you're going through multiple turns. 

and there are plenty of events of boats without coxswains.

And so those rowers. Usually have steering cables attached to one of their shoes, and their shoe can pivot, and so as they turn their toe, the rudder will move, and so they're focusing in on either rowing their single to the best. Usually there's not steering in singles. [00:19:00] That's all pressure steering, just pulling harder on one side or the other, but doubles and quads.

We'll have that toast steering. So you're focused on rowing with your shell and perfect timing while also taking peaks over your shoulders on both sides to make sure you're like taking the turns correctly and also watching out for others around you. 'cause in those races, you're started one at a time without about 10 seconds in between.

So there, there's the opportunity to pass votes or be passed. 

Wow. I, okay, now it's ing. I would not have realized that you have some races where they're turning, I, I'm always thinking it's just a dead. Straight race. But again, and my ignorance precedes me on this matter, so I'm, I'm learning lots today about rowing. So let me ask you, so when you look at your career as a coach and the, girls in your program's, girls in your program who've come and gone, and you look at what values that you think this experience, beyond the [00:20:00] technicality of rowing and all the rowing experience, what life or leadership lessons or values do you think this is instilling in those young women?

You believe will, sort of carry them into the future?

Yeah.

To me, some of the biggest core values that I think come out of this sport. Is learning how to be resilient and also learning the power of being a part of a team. 

Yeah.

, I feel like there's so many highs and lows in rowing and especially 'cause there's so many uncontrollable variables in our sport. rowing out on the water every single day, we get different conditions every day we go out there and a lot of the time the wind will change halfway through our practice and we have to adapt.

and. We try to focus in on one of our biggest phrases within our team is, as long as you show up with good attitude and good effort, like you've won the day, and [00:21:00] no matter how poorly the row goes, as long as you approached it with good attitude and get, you gave all the effort that you have.

That's okay. and they learn to approach that on the days where the boat's running perfectly and they're hitting the numbers that they should be hitting and the boat, they're just cruising. , But also on the days where the boat just doesn't seem to pick up right or something breaks during practice, , at the end of those days, it's like, Yeah, that's a, that's a bummer, but.

How's your attitude and effort? And they're like, you know what? Like, it was really good. it's like, that's a win. We, we got the job done. and over time, like watching the girls become okay with the days that aren't perfect and just like give themself the credit for showing up, has been huge. And watching them carry that into just how they manage themselves through school, because.

My kids come right directly from school to practice. We start practice at three 30 every day. They usually get us outta school at somewhere between two 20 and two 40, [00:22:00] and some of them will come from school and have like the worst day possible. I had a girl call me maybe three weeks ago. She was in a McDonald's parking lot, sobbing her eyes out because she got some really bad news from a college coach and like nothing was going right that day.

And I was like, I totally support whatever you need today. But I think being around your teammates and being present in the moment could be good for you. Like your teammates are always here. They're showing up for you. are you gonna be able to show up for them? And I was like, if, if you really need the day, you can take it.

But take a few breaths, call me back, like, let me know what you want to do. She ended up coming to practice. And we had a really, really hard indoor workout that day before we went onto the water, and she hopped off the machine after the hard indoor workout and walked over to me and hugged me and was like, thank you so much.

Like, that's actually exactly what I needed. And if we didn't have that [00:23:00] conversation, I, I wouldn't have had this. Um, and so I think. I'm in a really cool opportunity to teach them that. Sometimes you just gotta show up when you're a little bit scared, and the more frequently they get to have those opportunities, the more it's gonna stick to their core.

Yeah, it's super powerful. I mean, and I love that. Again, think about the simplicity of the wisdom that. Abby's just talking about, I mean, are you showing up with the right attitude? Like again, are you, coming and being present? Are you showing up? Do you have the right attitude?

And again, you can apply that anywhere if you're listening. 'cause sometimes I hate to say that we have. Shitty attitudes, like, our, our asses in the seat, but our attitudes are not great. So really simple life advice. But if you think about that, if they carry that forward into their workplaces or their communities showing up, being present, um, you know, your teammates are showing up for you.

Showing up for them. All of these things are wonderful lessons. And I, [00:24:00] it's interesting what you said about how. Out of control you are of the environment that you are rowing in a lot of sports. I mean, there's a lot of sports that do have elements of unpredictability, but there's a lot of sports that, you know, millions of dollars are spent grooming that field and making sure it's perfect and, you know, some little spec of something gets on it and it's gotta come off because, you know, it, there's this pristine sense of the playing field, whereas.

Your playing field, the water, which is unpredictable, that has its own mind. Uh, you've got wind, you've got all these things. Again, speaks to that idea of resilience and adaptability in the moment. Because I mean, they, the old adage is, you know, a poor sailor blames the wind. Right? so let me ask you when, um.

wind comes against people, when wind comes and puts 'em off course or puts 'em behind, is there strategies that you can use to sort of make yourself more aerodynamic [00:25:00] or because of the way you're rowing and the rhythm, is that quite impossible or can you adapt to that environment in any way?

there's some small adaptations you can make. , There's some technical skills that we work on pretty consistently, but the girls know if the wind kicks in, this is where our brain has to go. So the water that we train on and we actually do a lot of our racing on is generally known for having pretty terrible water specifically on racing weekends.

Um, it's kind of funny, but it's good 'cause we get to practice in it. We, we spend so much time in it that our kids are kind of unfazed. , But the biggest thing is making sure that we are connecting with the water as quickly as possible. When you get up towards the catch where the blade needs to go in, a lot of teams will have some hesitation or they'll actually start the leg drive before the blade is connected with the water.

so we [00:26:00] focus a lot on how can we fine tune and get the blade connected as quickly as possible so we have something to push against to get the boat up and out of the water and moving. there are also some. Changes in the equipment that we can make, that'll change the load and this or that, but the kids don't really know too much about that.

That's something that the coaches just kind of do on our own, but we talk a lot about, Okay.

it's really windy. We need to make sure that we're sitting tall with good posture and so we can connect with the water as quickly as possible. 

Interesting. So it's interesting the way you describe it because again, when I'm watching it, I'm just thinking about this, this boat, but it's a shell going across the water. You are describing the water as almost as the connective point to launch yourself. So you're describing the water very differently than I would see it.

You're also using, from a physics perspective, you're obviously creating a mechanical advantage. In a sense, it, this is a lever and a fulcrum that's at [00:27:00] work in the shell, but also. If I'm understanding you correctly in the water, because you place the blade, you don't even call it an or onto the surface of the water, into the water.

You actually, you propel yourself out of the water and forward almost in a leveraged position almost. so that's interesting to me because again, I think about this when I, when I hear these kind of things, I think about how it applies to my life. I think about how it applies to business, whatever.

But this is this idea for me as. this is a great challenge. Like, where am I putting my blade into something and propelling myself forward? Giving myself some leveraged advantage in the races that I'm running, whether that's in my community, in my family, in my, mental life, my social life, uh, you know, my spiritual life if I think about my life that way.

But in business, what are we putting our blade into? Sort of it in there and saying, we can use this to leverage [00:28:00] ourselves and push us forward. Because you're describing the process of rowing very different than I would think of it as somebody observing, am I getting the, the physics of this thing?

Am I tracking with you?

Yeah.

that's absolutely it. We, a lot of people see rowing and think that it's a pulling sport, uh, but we really try to flip That, and it's really a pushing sport. You place your blade and you push against the feet, which you're hanging off the handle and pushing off the water to leverage the boat up and out and get it running.

Now again, I, because I know nothing about this, this is fascinating to me because I would never perceive that. But as you're describing it, I'm seeing a more of a connection to me about how, what leveraged advantage and, and you know, I often talk when I'm training, I. Leaders, but often salespeople.

I talk about this idea, this idea of identifying as a comedian in our thinking. Of course, Archimedes famously said, gimme a lever long enough and a ful and well placed. I can move the world mathematically. He was correct. It's the principle of [00:29:00] leverage and so I often talk about what does creating leverage with our client or in a market look like, and in this case, what do we stick?

That blade or that that thing we have, how do we stick it into the market and pull ourselves or push ourselves forward? you're using the same analogy from a rowing perspective, which is quite fascinating to me. So listen, this is an interesting conversation. Again, if you're listening in, I always say you're listening for a reason.

Don't forget that, and you might not be a rower, but how can you apply these things in your life and in your business? That would be my challenge to you. Hey, I got a question, and we haven't talked about any of this, but have you ever rode,, in Niagara on the lake in Canada at 

I have. Yeah, so I raced at Canadian Henley multiple times when I was in high school. I also now have?

the opportunity to coach my athletes there during the summers. 

It's a big historic thing that our program has always gone to. And something kind of crazy about that event is they only award [00:30:00] medals for the first place winners. 

Interesting.

Yeah. A lot of regattas will medal one through three, but it's like a big deal to win Canadian Henley and you've gotta come in first to get pulled into the awards doc and get your medals and your plaque with your team. It, it takes a lot. To win that event and it's when you do it is one of the coolest things. 

That's amazing. Now also, I'm gonna see, I'll take a flyer on this. So, a number of years ago, as part of, uh, my business and different things that I've done, I had a partnership with a physician in the Niagara area and we, we built a series of medical clinics. And at the medical clinic at one point, we had a.

Bunch of doctors working for us, and one of the doctors that worked for us, his name was, Tom Mazzoni. Tom. In addition to being a physician in Canada, was the, , rowing coach, one of the rowing coaches at the University of Buffalo for like eons. so that was kind of interesting 'cause he had this whole other sort of side [00:31:00] hustle, this side gig And so he was a coach at the University of Buffalo. And when I first started my podcast years ago, I had Jeremiah Brown on my podcast and Jeremiah Brown, his claim to fame is quite interesting. So he was a Canadian Olympic silver medalist, I think in the fours. I forget what year it was. It might have been.

Two, two Olympics ago, maybe or so, maybe or three. And what hap his story is, is that he was a couch potato, overweight eating chips on the couch when you're watching the Olympics watching rowing. And he makes a decision and says, I'm gonna do that next to Olympic and make the team.

And he does. He goes from never having rode in his life. F to making the Olympic team and winning a silver medal. I mean, it's a crazy, crazy story. I can't imagine that that would be a, uh, very typical, but, okay. Let me, let me ask you, if I was gonna become a rower, which by the way I'd probably die, I'd have a heart attack.

But I'd me ask you, is it body muscle strength in your arms and legs? Is it cardio that's more [00:32:00] important? is it have to be both or you're gonna, I'm gonna die. 

It really has to be. Um, it's, you work both your aerobic and anaerobic system during racing. so your body has to be primed for both. and also it takes a lot of leg strength and also core strength. So your core helps connect the power 'cause you're hanging off of the handle with your arms.

And so your core supports you to hold that leverage as you let the legs work. So it really is a full body movement. but training the aerobic and anaerobic systems is vital to success in rowing. 

Okay, so just a full, full, full confession then. I am not rowing anywhere, anywhere. Anytime. 'cause I will die. That will not work. That will work, not work for me, Abby. So listen, Abby, love the conversation, and again, if you're listening in, listeners, you're listening for a reason, ask how do you apply this and figure it out.

Now, maybe some of you wanna go, if you've got, you know, the body and the stamina [00:33:00] and the skill, maybe you wanna go learn to row, you should do that. But. Other than that, if you don't do that, maybe you ought to take some of these ideas and put 'em to work in your life, in your business, and in your community and your family, and ask what can lessons, can I take into that?

So, because this is the Unmodified podcast, Abby, and we're gonna bring this plane in for a landing. I, I always like to explore this idea for me, this idea of, of un commodification. , Isn't just applied or shouldn't be just applied to business and to products and this kind of stuff that we think of as traditional commodities, but I actually believe that one of the challenges in life is that we can become commodities.

That we, we are coached and cajoled into sitting down and shutting up and fitting in and giving up some of our uniqueness for the sake of, you know. Being acceptable, which is on one level. Okay. But another level, we can give too much of that. So I'm interested to know about people's unique expressions.

So, so when Abby's going into a room, or when Abby goes to the side of the lake or the side of the river, I. You're bringing only what Abby [00:34:00] can bring when you're bringing the Abby, like full on the Abbey. what unique contribution do you think that you tend to make in those environments that you believe is, positively influencing that environment for the benefit of the people there?

Yeah, I always come back to when I'm in those moments, I'm so unbelievably present. No matter what else has happened within my day, it doesn't matter. I have these two and a half, three hours with this awesome group of kids who are there showing up for the team. I'm going to be just as present as I'm asking them to be.

But I also have so much faith and trust in their potential that I'm gonna hold them to it. And sometimes it's really easy conversations with the kids and then sometimes it is kind of harsh conversations that I have to have. But I am [00:35:00] having them and holding to them to these points because I know that they can achieve these things.

And some kids. I have to kind of read the room and everybody responds to different types of coaching differently. And so I try to trust myself to know how different kids respond to some things and with the kids who can handle some, like tough feedback, like give it to 'em because it's, I am there to help them become the best athlete and teammate.

And sometimes they, they need to hear it straight. and it all comes from. A trust and belief that they're capable and it comes from a really, really great place. But I think sometimes people are so used to sugarcoating and being so soft and like not saying it as it is. and so I try to be straightforward and hold them to what I know they're capable of. 

Powerful. So there's this, wonderful. Gift of presence being present, with people. That is part of the [00:36:00] unique thing that you can bring. But then not only present in a way that is always just sort of saying, well, you're doing a great job. There's a presence that says, Hey, I believe in you enough to say.

We could get our game on here. you can do this better. We can do this better. Which I think is really important because sometimes we, we wanna be unusually kind with people, but not unusually honest. And I think these things have to be married together. We have to be unusually respectful, unusually kind, unusually present while being, not, not, but, and.

Unusually candid, unusually frank, for the positive benefit of people hearing that, which is true to catalyze them to a greater, output or effect. So what a great contribution, Abby and I love it. And again. Maybe that's your unique contribution to listeners and you need to bring more of that. I know that's a great challenge for me, Abby.

Really appreciate the conversation today, [00:37:00] and I wanted this duly noted on the podcast forever. So whenever it's played anywhere in the world, we will all remember that Nick Abby's husband is currently doing the dishes now. Come on now. That is a modern man. 

Yep. 

Nick is a modern, man. 

He, he does a good job. 

Sweet. So listen, if you're looking for a dishwasher, you can't have, you can't have Nick, 'cause Abby's, Abby's got 'em taken, so he can't have Nick.

Listen, Abby, thank you so much for your time Again, if you listened in, you listened for a reason, do me a favor as you uncork this conversation into your life, as we've uncorked a drink together, uh, DM me or send me an email at tim@unccommodified.com and tell me and Abby, how are you, how are you processing this?

And what are you doing and what are you thinking about as you think about this great journey that you could take? Because this is so important. 'cause remember. What I said when we started. At the end of the day, listen, when you cross the finish line, rowing is one isn't just [00:38:00] about coordination, it is about connection.

It is about configuration. It is about catalyzing the combined strength of your team to create momentum like you've never, ever experienced in your whole life. Thanks for listening today. Cheers, having a wonderful day.