the GIFT of LOVING LEO: UNCORKED with the HENNEBRY’S

What if the most profound insights about love, purpose, and parenting are not found in the “perfect”family, but rather in an “imperfection” we’re told to fear? 

In this deeply human and disarmingly raw conversation, Tim Windsor sits down with Aidan and Leanne Hennebry—two creatives, parents, and unflinchingly real people—to talk about the journey they’re on with their son Leo, who has autism, and their other two children, Betty and Walt. They explore what it means to parent through joy, through grief, through diagnosis delays and missed milestones—and what it looks like when love, not control, becomes the guiding principle of a family. This isn’t a conversation about suffering—it’s about reimagining strength, rethinking "normal," and finding out what divine purpose might actually sound like in the quiet and chaotic spaces of your life.

Whether you're a parent, sibling, friend—or simply someone trying to understand how to show up better for others—this episode will challenge you. You’ll gain insight into how to advocate fiercely yet kindly, how to embrace tension without trying to fix it, and how to find unexpected joy where others only see struggle. You’ll hear how Leanne and Aidan confront systems that sometimes try—and fail—to hold them back, and how they, still amidst it all, manage to come out laughing, loving, and leading their family with radical hope. You’ll learn how Betty teaches Leo, how Leo teaches them, how God teaches them all, and how being a dad—or a mom—is not about having all the answers, but about being all-in regardless. If you’re brave enough to listen, you’ll leave feeling more human than when you arrived.

Tim Windsor
the UNCOMMODiFiED Podcast – Host & Guide
tim@uncommodified.com
https://uncommodified.com/
  
PRODUCERS: Alyne Gagne & Kris MacQueen 
MUSIC BY: https://themacqueens.ca/

Transcript

PLEASE NOTE: UNCOMMODiFiED Podcast episode transcriptions are raw text files and have not been proofed or edited. They are what they are … Happy Reading.

© UNCOMMODiFiED & TIM WINDSOR

[00:00:00] 

Hey, my friends. Welcome back to the Unmodified podcast. My name is Tim WinDor, and, uh, this episode's gonna be a little bit different, so I'm not gonna wax eloquent with some wonderful introduction tonight because it doesn't need that thing. It's gonna be a different kind of conversation, and it's a conversation that's gonna be different for couple of reasons.

We're gonna explore a topic I've never talked about before, and I'm gonna do it with some really good friends of mine. And so I wanna introduce to you, uh, my listeners some good friends. It's Aiden and Leanne Henree. We like to call them the Henne Breeze, which is a great way to look at it. Guys, welcome to the show.

Thank you. Yeah, thanks Tim. It's good to be here.

Yeah, it's gonna be a lot of fun. So, uh, I've had the pleasure of knowing Aiden and Leanne for, oh my gosh, now I'm going to, you know, I'm gonna feel old now for a second. So how long have we known each other? I'm gonna say it's probably eight, nine years.

Oh no, it's at least 10. I mean, if we count you as, uh, the father of the groom when [00:01:00] we shot your husband's wedding. When we photographed his wedding, that's, uh, more than 10 years ago now.

By the way, just to be clear, not my husband's wedding,

Oh,

another show. another show. Aiden. Hey. Okay. I've been, I've been outed now on my show. No, not my husband's 

son's, 

My son's

son. He was the husband

know, I know. But every once in a while doesn't Chris feel like my husband? I'm seriously, like my son is so mature, he

you often you call him, uh, Mr. Mr. Windsor, the senior Windsor. So he is like your dad. He's all kinds of

We, yeah, this convers. Can you imagine listeners, this conversation starting off while it's gonna be amazing. Yes. You shot, you, you shot the photos at Chris and Emily's wedding. That's right. I forgot about that.

Yep. I.

And that was, that was, uh, that was a great wedding and you guys did some awesome photography for that.

And then, you know, full disclosure, I've hired Aiden for different projects over the years 'cause he's a graphic designer. We'll talk about that. And Aiden was the designer behind my book, unmodified. So we've been on a long journey together and of course then we get [00:02:00] to go over and we get to meet the lovely and talented Leanne and that's awesome.

And so, but tonight it's not gonna be about the amazing, uh, business that Aiden runs that you're gonna wanted to learn about and hire him to do some work for you. Shameless plug not about that tonight. We're not talking about their great photography business that if you aren't great photos, you gotta talk to them.

'cause they do great photography. It's not about the graphic design, it's not about Lean Ann and her wonderful motherly skills are, although it is tonight. And Aiden's amazing husband and father skills because we're gonna be talking about Aiden and Leanne's family and their parenting of their kids and the wonderful gift that their kids are, and also so the challenges as a family that they are, they, they're processing and dealing with.

And, and I wanna start by saying. You guys are some, some of, if not the best parents that I have ever observed. [00:03:00] You guys are awesome parents. I remember the time we came to you, to your house where you guys live now, and just watching you with your kids, and particularly bedtime. Like, seriously, I want to be, I wanna be at the Henneberry's house at bedtime because there are some serious bedtime stories that happen.

And Aiden, you believe you came in with some massive teddy bear that was, it was craziness. And I, again, this is just all that you, you guys are, so first of all, tell us a little bit about you, you and your family. How did you guys, how'd you guys get together? How long you've been together? Tell us about your kids, and then let's start a conversation, particularly maybe about Leo's journey, but

Yeah.

what's going on with you guys?

yeah. So we have been, uh, a couple for almost well thir over 13 years now. Yeah. Married for almost 11, which is, uh, exciting and fun. Um, yeah, I mean, I fell in love with Leanne the first time I saw her in a grocery store in [00:04:00] Kisser Waterloo. And, uh, the rest is history.

the aisle? What aisle? Aiden?

I can, yeah, sort of, it was actually, it was not down an is in front of the aisle, but yeah, she was wearing black leather jacket, flat brim hat, skinny jeans, Tom's shoes.

Oh yeah, I remember the whole thing.

Look at that. Oh, okay.

So, uh, yeah, I was very into Leanne very quickly and, sometimes people would ask Leanne, when did you know Aiden liked you? And Leanne would, Leanne's answers often. Well, he never didn't. Yeah.

He never did

So a well known fact. Yeah.

a factoid. I like

So yeah, I, uh, she rejected me a couple times and eventually I convinced her to be my girlfriend, which was awesome.

Well, he, he is younger than me, so in college it felt more obvious 'cause I was finishing one course and he was fresh outta high school. Yeah. So he was four years younger.

Oh, just so you know, you're, you're like, uh, you got, you got, [00:05:00] you're like, Mrs. WinDor. I'm, I'm five years younger than Mrs. WinDor.

Okay.

Um, I like to say she was my babysitter, but it, it, it's not true. But I love the story.

Yeah, that would, that would be quite a story. So anyhow, we'll fast forward a little bit, but yeah, we, uh, two years later we got married. It was a beautiful wedding day, and then a couple years after that, we decided to start a family, as many couples do. And so, first came along, our son Leo. And, as of today, as of the time we're recording this podcast, he is seven and a half.

And then, is that right? Seven and a half, almost. Almost seven. Seven, seven and a half scripted. Uh, and then two years after that, we had our daughter Betty in 2020 just before, COVID like truly hit the world. So we were lucky that we didn't have to deal with, weird hospital restrictions Yeah. And stuff like that.

And then yeah, , it took us a little bit longer to have our third child, Walt. We had, uh, experienced a couple [00:06:00] miscarriages. We had a miscarriage before Leo as well. And so we weren't totally sure if we were going to continue having kids and we kind of said, ah, we'll take one last kick of the can.

And then, uh, sure enough, that was the one that stuck. And then nine months later we had our youngest Walter, , and he is now two. Right. So,

It's two now.

yeah, Walt is two. Yeah.

And 

I gotta ask you about the names, but before I do this, like I, I'm so off my normal kilter in my conversation 'cause I decided, you know, not to start the same and I, I clearly am a creature of habit. I forgot this is an uncorked conversation. I forgot that I need to have a drink. So before we get too far into this, I need to have a drink.

Uh, and I'm having a nice kee. I know that you guys are not big alcohol drinkers, so we got a Coca-Cola.

yeah,

And we got a Monster Energy drink, which I don't think is any better than alcohol. But anyways, cheers to you guys. I'm gonna have a drink as we do this. Hmm. Okay, I gotta talk, I gotta ask you about the names.

'cause these are non, these are [00:07:00] non-traditional kid names. Come on now, Leo.

Leo came, like, it was one of those names you talk about when you're dating and like, oh, if we had kids, , what would you name them? And Leo was one of those names. So we just had it forever. Mm-hmm. We can't recall who said it when, and then it just Yeah. Was our, and we, we didn't even really have a girl's name.

We didn't know what we were having any of our children. So Leo was, we just felt it's probably a boy

Now is Leo. Is Leo short for a longer form or is it

Nope.

It's Leo. Okay. All right. And what does Leo mean? Does it have a meaning,

I mean it's like Greek or Latin or something for Lions,

Well, yeah, so lying. Okay. I like that one. Okay, now next child name,

it's Betty and

Betty.

yes. And we got really into watching madman. , When we, when we had Leo and, , our late nights with the baby. Yeah. And then we just [00:08:00] watched through this all the seasons, and then there's a Betty on it. We're like, what's, we gotta bring that name back?

I like that name. Yeah. She's a, she's a fiery character on the show. She's a 1960s, blonde bombshell housewife, but she's like, she's got spunk in character and that almost in a way feels like foreshadowing. 'cause our Betty is, she's a firecracker as well. So,

That's awesome. And then we have Walt Short for Walter.

yes. That is short for

Okay. Walt, come on now. This is not a traditional boy's

No, it's a,

24, 25.

definitely an older one. I, I was inspired by like, Aiden having read the biography of Walt Disney

Okay.

and, , just really enjoying that. They're like, okay, I like Walter. I'm like, I'll always call him Walter though. Walter will be like, if he's in trouble.

in trouble.

But he is mostly Walt or Wally. He gets the nickname

I'll go. All, okay. Well, at least he didn't get Mickey. Perfect. 10 or some other name that, so [00:09:00] I love your kids' names by the way, 'cause they are throwback to a bit of nostalgia and you guys have that vibe. You guys, it's like, you gotta, you might have, you know, if you believe in time travel, which I know you don't, but I might, you

for it.

Yeah, yeah.

But you guys are definitely got a def a, a vibe from a, a retro world, which I really like about the way you guys, your style, the way you do life. You're in the dog house right now, which is this, how, how, how many square feet is this office?

99 square feet, so 11 by nine. Interior dimensions are 11 by nine. So yeah, 99 square feet of

coming to you as from the dog house, which is also your design studio called the Doghouse, which I also think is your business name. The doghouse

that's right. Yeah. Yeah. Multiple purposes. It got the name because when we moved into this house, this was like. It had some doggy doors and a fence around and like, I think the old owners bred dogs, so we just were like, we just started referring it to as the dog house, and then it was like branded [00:10:00] that.

Yeah,

perfect. Yeah, so I, I was sad 'cause I, when I first heard about the dog house, I was sure it was gonna be DAWG, but no, it's not. It's DOG, which is, which is fine, less, less sexy to me than the dog house, DAWG, but it works for me.

spelling, traditional spelling.

All right, listen, let's take the conversation now out of sort of this happy go lucky, uh, world.

And let's get back into the reality of parenting. So you got three kids, which is no, from today's standards, three kids is, is probably not the average anymore. So let's, that's more than the average number of children. And you also have some, you've had a unique gift given to you along the way, and I would love to talk to you about that.

Obviously, all your children are a unique gift to you, but you have a child that has a unique gift and some challenges, and you guys are processing that as a family. And that's part of what I want to, uh, explore with you tonight.

Yeah, so Leo, our [00:11:00] ELs. Yeah. He, , has autism. , He was diagnosed, he was four. Yep. He just started kindergarten , which I think is a little late to be diagnosed and had nothing to do with us inquiring, but more to do with, , the COVID slowdown of the medical system. And so, like the appointment to be diagnosed for that took two years.

, Yeah. So yeah, he, he wasn't talking at. Two. And that's when you start to be like, okay, maybe speech. And then through that. And they thought, oh, I don't think autism at that point. 'cause he had decent eye contact. And that can be of, that's a major indicator when you're quite young, obviously. 'cause there's less, , comparison to kids at that age.

, But by the time he got diagnosed, , more, more, , they're more milestones and the way he interacts and stuff became more obvious of autism. So when I brought him to that [00:12:00] appointment, I was trying to prepare myself, like, that's that's what I'm gonna hear today. So, yeah. And, , he still doesn't talk.

Mm-hmm. He is a, a nonverbal, autistic kid. , And we would, we would classify him as, . How did I say? Not like, like severe? , Yeah, like yeah, he's not high functioning. Yeah. It's like, as each year goes on, like how you describe it is the gap between him and his a and an kid his age. An average kid his age seems to get larger with, , like our 2-year-old in a sense has , crossed way more milestones and understands and can comprehend and do more, , than our 7-year-old.

Okay, so can I, can I ask you, so you're having, you're having this experience with Leo. You recognize that his development is not. Tracking the way you might expect it to track. , And you're starting to [00:13:00] process all this, and now you're gonna go to the doctor, you're gonna understand this. How does, how, how does this feel for you guys and what's going on for you guys in those beginning days?

You wanna take that or you want me? Well, I cried. Shocker. It was Leanne's birthday too. Yeah. Which I just find a unique, interesting anniversary that the day that we were officially giving to diagnosis was, , Leanne's birthday. So yeah, it's like, yeah, I knew, I really felt like I knew it was coming and I was trying to prepare myself, but like, you still cry, , when the truth truly is revealed.

, So it was like a bit of a, a grieving process at first. , 'Cause I'd say. Like, everyone kind of tries to give you hope and you hold onto that. Like, oh, I know of kids who don't talk, , till they were seven or till they, you know, you hear those types of stories and and like when it is younger, you're just, it is more about the [00:14:00] vocabulary, but as they get older, it is like, , they're not comprehending and they're not responding and , et cetera.

So you're like, it, it's more than just speech. Mm-hmm. , So it was, it was, like yeah, a little bit of grieving. But then like, okay, it's also like nothing's different and, let's, see what we can do from here. Yeah. I would say for me, like I was working the day that, , Leanne took Leo to his appointment.

And so, I knew there was an assessment and so I figured, okay, Leanne will call me. And I, I think in my mind, I was not expecting that we would actually get a diagnosis that day. So I was just kind of not in the frame of mind to receive such news. And so when Leanne called me and very quickly I can, she was crying on the phone, I'm like, uhoh.

And so she had shared it's autism. I remember it very much, , feels just a little bit of shell shock, right? That you're like, oh boy, I took the rest of the day off work. I, , [00:15:00] went for a long walk, cried a bit in the park, just like kind of tried to, to start coming to terms with it anyways. And , definitely, , we kind of, when we reflect on it, we say there was kind of a, at the most, it was about a week mm-hmm.

Where there was a lot of. , Yeah. Grieving and what I would say grieving in the sense of like, , we, we do remind ourselves like we're grateful he doesn't have cancer. I don't think he's going to die imminently. Like it could be much worse. Right? And so what we were grieving in that moment was really kind of the future that we thought Leo might have, right?

Because, , , it, it's our first go around as parents and our, , you, you dream for your kid's future, I think as most parents do. You know, okay, go to school, grow up, buy a car, move out, you know, all these different things. And so we were quickly kind of coming to terms with like, okay, at best, the future is a really big question mark right now.

[00:16:00] And, , we kind of need to just live in that tension now. So it was, yeah, it was interesting.

So, , it, it just, as you describe that, and first of all, I appreciate the conversation, and again, if you're listening in, I always say, listeners, you're listening in for a reason. So first of all, if, if you know somebody in your world that this is the kind of podcast subject that they ought to listen to, I'd encourage you to make sure they find the podcast.

If you're listening in and, and maybe you're just listening in so you can understand this journey a little bit more and you can have a little bit more compassion for others. Maybe you have a similar journey. I don't know why you might be listening, but if you, if you're listening, you're always listening for a reason.

I'm always gonna say that to you. So I think. Throughout this conversation, no, I don't think, I know you're gonna find some opportunities to do some self-reflection about who you are, about, if you happen to have the privilege of having children who they are, the hopes and dreams that we have for our kids as parents and all of the things that go around with this.

And the one thing I wanna say to [00:17:00] both of you guys, I mean, when. Pam and I came over for dinner at your house. It was a while ago. Now, I will say that, , both of us left again just watching you guys parent all your children, but , there were times where Leo was struggling a little bit that night and just watching you guys interact with him, with the care, with care and concern.

At the same time though, with a framework of there is, getting this understanding that, hey, there are some things that Leo can understand and comp, and, and comprehend. And so you, you, you, you parented him or you interacted with him in such a way that you, you, you wanted to provide some framework, even some accountability for him and his behavior at the same time.

This deep sense of compassion. And I just wanna say it was really awesome for us just to watch that. And of course, we don't have experience with this, so we, we can't, we, we don't understand all these things. But I do wanna say as somebody looking in from the outside, . It's really awesome to watch how [00:18:00] you guys are, are parenting your kids and parenting Leo in a way that is just so wonderfully positive.

And I don't know if I could do that to be really frank. So, so I just wanna say I really appreciate that about you guys. So I'm, I'm interested to know when, did you have any experience histor, like with autism or any grid for it? Meaning, so when they say diagnosis, Leo has autism, or do you have a comparator in your life, or do you have, have you done a bunch of research already and you, and you go, we know this means x or is this, are you just free falling and go?

We're not really sure what any of this really means.

, Do you have any, like, before like knowing me? Not really. No. So mine would be, my brother is, my brother's eight years younger than me, and he is autistic.

Okay. Didn't, I didn't know that.

Yeah. , And he's high functioning. He's mm-hmm. Cool kid. , But yeah, he, I, knew a bit about my [00:19:00] journey. His journey with my mom mm-hmm. Of how, like it started with speech therapy when he was really young, speech therapist saying, I think it's more than just speech, , getting diagnosed.

, And then like, , there's a spectrum obviously in autism and I think throughout his years, like he would shift within that as he developed and grew. , But , he speaks, he was a cute kid, like he was eight years younger, so there was kind of like a slight motherly roll of me, like real big sister who just loved to take care of him.

And he was a sweet, cuddly kid. , And like I would have different memories than like my mom being the parent of him. , But I don't recall him having much behavioral issues. , I know breaking a routine was extremely difficult for him. If you like, stopped into his school during his birthday and like you were a person that's not.

Technically should be in that environment. He had no interest in what you had to bring him. It could be your the his favorite thing. And he's like, why are you [00:20:00] here? , But yeah, so I, I did actually have a bit of experience, , and an understanding. , And like right now he's, he can drive, he works pretty much full-time at Costco.

He's extremely athletic. He's, , like a long distance runner and he does a lot of, special Olympic sports too. So he really, uh, gravitated towards athletics. , It's great. , But yeah, he is, uh, my biggest framework of that. And it's interesting too because obviously the difference between like even mm-hmm.

Funding and systems and, . Diagnosing and all that. Like from what he was way, , 20 years, it's about 20 years or so that Yeah, yeah. Like to today, like there's, like, I have like knowledge of it. And also like our son Leo is also like, , quite different from him too. Mm-hmm.

So there's this difference in a, and again, a difference the way that we look at these things in society. We've had some progression and thinking on [00:21:00] these things may , at the same time there are those unique challenges. So I'm interested to know if you could sort of frame it this way. So what are, what are you learning about yourselves? As individuals and as a, as a, as a couple through this experience, what are you learning about? What do you learn about Leo and your kids? 

Hmm. 

what are you learning about others? And by the way, these could be positive or or negative learnings, but what is it you're learning along the way? And do you have a sense that this is part of, , is there a grand why in this?

Or is there no grand? Why in this? I mean, I think a lot of people we always wanna know is, , is there a grand, is there a sense of a grand why? And maybe there isn't, or maybe there's not.

Mm-hmm.

, But I'm interested to know like, what are you guys learning along the way that, that through this journey

I mean, lots naturally, and, and I think that some of that just comes with parenthood in general. That's not exclusive to, uh, obviously having a kid [00:22:00] with autism specifically Leo Leo's role in our family is unique for a lot of reasons. , One of which is, , even just different for us and our experience as parents, because Leo is the oldest.

So Leo is the first one going into school, the first one that went to daycare, the first one that is, , quote unquote reaching certain milestones. Whereas in Leanne's family, Brian was the third, and he was eight years behind. Leanne, who was the oldest. So Leanne's parents kind of, you, you had a little bit more of a natural framework of like, okay, here are the, here's where I expect my kid to be by this age.

Right? And so without that, it, it's just like, I mean, it's the only life we know, so it is what it is. But I imagine that that is different because our kind of expectation of the, , level of independence of our kids and things is different. Just because Leo's the first but more. , At a deep level.

And I would say especially something [00:23:00] recently, Leanne articulated it so well in a recent conversation we were having, , , we, like, we recognize that as parents of a kid with autism, our lives, all of us are going to look different than, , a family that does not have anyone with special needs.

Right. And one of the things that I think is easy to do is to fixate on all of the things that you lose when you have, , someone in your family with special needs. So again, kind of going back to our gut reaction, I think it's a fairly normal human gut reaction in that kind of week prior or week after finding out that Leo had autism was to really be like, okay, I.

, From where we stand today, we have no idea if Leo will ever move out. No idea if he'll ever talk, even no idea if he'll ever function well in school. , Certainly doesn't seem like he may find a partner or grow old with someone other than [00:24:00] us. So there was a lot of, we need to not hold on to that so much and we need to kind of let that go and just kind of let Leo be Leo and love him for that.

And so the, the thing that Leanne articulated really well though is, , I, I think of quote unquote kind of regular family activities, okay? So if you're a mom and a dad with some young kids, , something as simple as like going to the movies, right? Or going out to the mall and just walking around a store.

We go into that. We have to go into that with a very. Open mindset of like, this could go horribly. 'cause Leo, like many kids with autism, one of Leo's biggest challenges is transitions between environments and transitions between activities. Those can really overwhelm Leo, stress him out. , Part of that is, , his lack of comprehension of kind of like what is coming next, right?

And so, , even we, we recognize at some point, oh, every time we get in the van to go somewhere, [00:25:00] Leo has no idea where we're going. And it must be like Russian roulette to be like, am I gonna go somewhere awesome like my Gigi's house, my grandparents' house, or am I gonna go somewhere I hate like the doctor or school or something like that, right?

And so even those were eyeopening moments for us to try to come up with visual cues and things that we could do to communicate to Leo where we were going and what we're doing. So anyways, the, the movie theater example, we cannot just like take our kids to a movie spontaneously without. Calling the theater ahead of time or checking in with the manager, Hey, we need to bring certain blankets, certain snacks, headphones for Leo.

, He may leave halfway through, we may leave with him halfway through and just have this kind of lowered expectation of going into it. And there are times definitely that we do things like that and it doesn't work out the way we hoped. And we try hard not to get frustrated or disappointed as parents.

Yeah. Because we try to just go into it expecting, hey, this may not work. But the flip side [00:26:00] of that, and the beauty of it is that when certain things like that happen and they work out, it takes something that is kind of mundane in the average family's life and it turns it into something like spectacular for us.

And that was what Leanne articulated in a really nice way, was like these kind of normal things that you can just get swept up in and the hurry of everyday life, they become that much more meaningful and rich for us. Because we recognize we may not get them. And so when we do it is that much more sweet and that much more awesome.

And so then the, the challenge for us in our hearts is to not hold that against Leo. And I think we do a pretty good job of that. Oh yeah. But, it enriches the things that can otherwise be quickly forgotten in your daily life. Yeah. So we went to Moana two as our first movie theater and like our kids are Disney watching kids like Leo Loves Cars number one, toy [00:27:00] Story Monsters Inc.

To Toy Story Monsters, Z and Coco or Pry all up there too. So like, he likes Moana too. He's watched Moana. , So like, we're like, we are hopeful with the recognition of the characters and we were like, okay, let's make sure the popcorn, like he likes smart food popcorn, not regular popcorn. And so certain things like that.

And we're like, alright. And then our daughter of course is thrilled and she's gonna wanna sit through that whole thing. So we're just like. Okay. Kind of deciding like Aiden has is gonna be the one, if someone needs to leave, he's gonna leave. And we're like, that'll be the game plan. , And he loved it. He sat through the whole thing and we just were like, this was the greatest family experience ever.

Oh. That's a, you know what I, what I love about it too, and, and maybe it's a good reminder for all of us, is that I think this is the problem for all of us is we take a lot of this stuff for granted, right? You, you just, you we have an expectation of what, what quote normal or what regular or what all of these terrible, frankly terribly ridiculous terms.

[00:28:00] 'cause what does it really mean at the end of the day, but the delight that you clearly are taking in this, this event 

Mm-hmm. 

And that leads me to a question about like, like your kids, obviously Walt is, is younger, Betty's a a little bit older. How old is Betty now?

Five.

So Betty's five. So, so tell me a little, I mean, Betty, you know, you named Betty after, , just to be clear, Aiden, you did say you named your daughter after some blonde bombshell on, uh, Mad Men.

Okay. So just, just to be clear. Okay. That that's what, but I get it. That's awesome. I love it. But so that means that she's, she's got a destiny for sure. Here. So how does Betty. Process this. And how does that interplay work? Because you have a relationship in your family, Lee Leanne, with your brother, but you were older.

How do you, how is the inter, tell me about the interplay between, between particularly Betty and Leo, and what are you seeing in Betty that gives you joy along the way?[00:29:00] 

well our middle name is Joy, so

Okay. How interesting.

, Honestly, like the interaction between our three children is like something that brings us joy daily. Like we are always kind of calling up. Did you see those? Those two, doing that together or, but like Betty is interesting because she's the second middle, but she's kind of got an older kid vibe because she, she does take on Leo's caretakers sometimes.

Mm-hmm. , She like encourages him to make noises or sounds like he can make a dda sound kind of for dadda for mama. But, and like when, when she gets him to do it, she'll be like, he, he said Mama and she gets so excited. , And Leo loves, physical touch, physical wrestling, tickling hugs, like cuddles, like everything.

And oh, she'll get right up in there like just jams her fingers in his and he loves it and he runs. And so like, [00:30:00] there, it's really cool 'cause there's not much of a. Barrier almost between them for his lack of certain comprehensions and his lack of speaking, , that she just gets right in there and plays.

So, like, it's, it's a huge blessing to have to Leo to have other siblings because in a sense they're gonna be as great as friends because he's Leo. That's just who he is. , He doesn't come into school and he's the kid that doesn't, isn't like everyone else. Mm-hmm. And also, Leo doesn't really care at all.

So in a sense, he doesn't care if he doesn't have friends, but he loves his siblings. And Betty is just, she's so fantastic with him. Like, and, , he can be behavioral a bit with her. Mm-hmm. , But she's so understanding too. And she's quick to forgive. She's quick to try and play with him again and help turn some of his moods around.

Mm-hmm. , She is, she's amazing.

Well, I think we all have some Betty lessons to learn. [00:31:00] Uh, I think Betty sounds like an inspiration to me, and she ought to be an inspiration to everyone. I mean, , again, that's I guess, the beauty of kids, right? Like, there's a certain naivety that is just, , a wonderment. It's unfortunate we lose that , as adults often.

Uh, although I'm, , I can be a kid most days, but, I just love the way you're describing that interplay between the two of them and how you see that working out in your family and what that looks like, which is really interesting to me because I think this is part of the thing that you're discovering some things that you wouldn't discover, obviously, if you weren't dealing with the same circumstances.

You know, imagine now, you know, you, Leo's in school, Betty's in school, I think, right? So now you're dealing with that whole piece and trying to figure out what that looks like. , , so, you're learning this stuff about yourselves and your family and how life is gonna look and , where are you gonna find joy and all these things.

Now we get out into the, the world beyond your family, and that, that world can be beautifully beautiful and [00:32:00] horrific. It can be lots of different things. 

Hmm. 

So, I'd be interested to know in these beginning days of the experience of Leo in school and what that's looking like, what's been maybe easier than you expected?

What's been more difficult, if there's parents out there that are maybe going to, aren't, aren't there yet, but are gonna navigate this kind of stuff in the system. Like, what are you seeing there and, and what are, what are you learning that might be helpful for yourselves and others?

Yeah. I mean, , everything is better and worse at the same time. Like, that's the cop out answer. I would say like, yeah, our experience. With, government funding and resources and things like that has been a lot tricker. We just haven't seen most funding come through at the time that we, officially had Leo diagnosed and applied for autism funding in, , Ontario.

It was something like a five to seven year wait is what we knew. So the challenging part about that is that, , , you want to [00:33:00] provide therapies and resources and things for your kid while they're as young as possible because as their brains are developing, obviously that's when you're gonna see the most return on that investment.

Right? So that was really challenging. , I would say school in general has been like a, a bit of a tumultuous thing. So we had started Leo at the public school just up the road from us and. , His teachers were amazing and like we very much feel like it was a like, , a god thing. We are people of faith we're Christians that Leo's teacher, , she had like extra schooling that kindergarten teachers don't need to have, but she had it and she had experience, if I'm not mistaken, doing therapies with kids with special needs.

So she understood these things. She had frameworks. She was amazing to help us, , understand the school system and kind of here's what you need to do if you want to maximize all of the resources available to you within the public school. And, you know, I don't want to get [00:34:00] her in trouble, but like, , telling us things that maybe teachers wouldn't be the first people to tell you about how to navigate these things.

And so

That's good

I'm in time again, we were just continually. Blessed by the profound and deep love that she had for Leo. And I mean, prior to that she was so great. She was really good at being like kind and gentle with him, but like firm and like would out stubborn his stubbornness like, oh, she, she, yeah. She had the most perfect balance.

I'm like,

sound. Sounds like my wife. My wife is kind. Yet she outlasts my stubbornness. I think that's my, my wife's gift too.

We all need that. So yeah. Then like, , we'd, we'd switched over to a private school, , earlier in this school year because when he was going into grade one. Yeah. So after two years of the public school going into grade one, part of that was surrounding us trying to get Leo a one-on-one support person in school, believing that this would be the best thing for him.

And that ended [00:35:00] up just not being a great experience. The, the private school that we went to, I think there was a lot of things that Leo and I have learned from that about proactive communication and, , not necessarily taking people at their word when they kind of casually tell you, oh yeah, everything's great.

And, uh, needing to dig in further. And so we ultimately switched the kids back to the public school and once again. , , on paper what would not have made sense and what did not seem to be the better choice ended up in reality being the much better choice. And so, , again, going back to your question of like, hey, for anyone listening, any, , parents of kids with special needs and , what is this like and navigating the system and all that, the biggest thing, , that I wish to convey to any parent of a kid with special needs, like I've got a number of books on the bookshelf behind me of, , , memoirs, different experiences of kids, parents, what have you, of someone that has someone close in their life that has autism.

And most of [00:36:00] those books are very negative in nature and very, this has been such a difficult road. And, and of course I don't want to invalidate anyone's personal experience 'cause that's totally valid, but what I feel very quickly when I read those is like, hey. Sounds like that person has had a really rough go of it.

That's not my experience, and I don't want to get attached to the idea that my life is worse than or lesser than because my son has autism. And so my biggest encouragement, and maybe one of the biggest things that I'm an advocate for is really trying to encourage people that an autism diagnosis is not a death certificate.

Like your life will go on, your kid is still your kid. And it, if anything, you know, it, it, it can reframe the way that you understand them and help you get to know them in a more intimate and beautiful way. And so, although absolutely, [00:37:00] that's a difficult, painful process. And again, everyone's challenges are gonna be unique, I guess, , I, I feel strongly about, , just.

Keep your chin up, like feel your feelings, go through that, grieve, what have you. But it does not need to be doom and gloom the whole way through. We would say in general parenting and parenting, Leo, , we wouldn't just umbrella is as parenting is difficult. We would say parenting as, and parenting Leo has difficult moments.

Mm-hmm. But parenting is wonderful. Mm-hmm.

Wow. Okay. I love, by the way, I just really love, I just wanna, so, so parenting. Parenting is wonderful, but parenting has difficult moments. And that's by the way, true for all parents regardless

Hmm. Yep.

whether your children are, uh, , Harvard academics at the age of five

Yep.

, Parenting is wonderful and there are difficult moments and I can attest to that with my own children for sure.

So, but first of all, I've just, I [00:38:00] mean, I do really love this conversation and I wanna take it. In a direction right now that, , and, and I wanna be clear again, if you're listening in, I always say you're listening in for a reason. So I'm gonna talk to you listeners for a second. I wanna talk a little bit more into Leanne and Aiden's understanding and belief system and how they see it benefiting them.

So listen, just full caveat, if that conversation's not for you, you can, you can press pause, you can stop and you can move on. I'd encourage you not to do that. Just, just just take an open mind about the journeys that we go on and what people find, uh, sort of strength and soulless in, because this is part of the story that I think is also important for me and to understand.

And I have, you know, listeners, you may or may not know, I have my own Securist journey regarding faith in my life. That's still another podcast series one day. But , I wanna start with a quote and I want you to. Think about this quote, and I want you to respond to it. So, CS Lewis, was, this amazing man who [00:39:00] wrote these amazing books like The Lion Witch Wardrobe, et cetera, he was part of this group called The Inklings, contemporary of JR.

Token and others who were quite amazing, but they were also all, theologians. They, they had a lot of ideas about who, what a God and, and, and, and faith and all these things, and they wove these things into their stories. But also, CS Lewis particularly had a life of tremendous pain. His wife was very sick for a long time.

Uh, there is actually a wonderful movie that was made, I forget the name, might have been called Shadowlands. It's a movie about their life and, and he had tremendous pain and difficulty, and he actually wrote a book called The Problem of Pain, which is kind of an interesting book. But he said something in that book, which is fascinating.

He said. This is his perspective. He uses the term, God, you again, listeners, you can fill it in with a uni. You can fill in with whatever you want. It doesn't matter. But he said this in pleasure. God whispers in pain, he shouts, which is an interesting idea [00:40:00] about how we hear the divine in our lives. , I wish it was opposite.

I wish that, that, I wish that I heard the divine in my life louder when, when everything's going well. But CS Lewis had this idea that somehow he, that pain is this megaphone that amplifies the voice of the divine. Which is a very interesting way of looking at it. So I've got a question for you. So obviously you, your people of faith, faith is important to you.

Your belief system, , is, is important to you and what you believe about God, what you believe that informs what you believe about people and the value of human, of human life and, and what it, what it, what it informs you about how you function as a couple. All these things, of course. So I'm interested to know how is this supporting your understanding and really driving the kind of values that you want to live out as a couple and as a family.

I'm, I'm interested in that part of the conversation and [00:41:00] I think it is an important part of your journey. 'cause it's who you are. It's not something you just do it, it's who you are. And I ha I imagine, and I believe that it affects the way you look at your children and yourselves along this way, this journey.

Oh, well, definitely, I believe, , we definitely believe our children are gift from God. Mm-hmm. And, um, yeah, we, uh, operate with that, but mm-hmm. There is great purpose. Like you, you said previously what, what's the big why and, I, so we believe in Jesus and we, we read our Bible. , And so I actually have a verse, from John nine pulled up and it's, , a book showed it to me about, motherhood and disability and how it's kind of like one of the, kind of the one time in the Bible that it touches on disability.

'cause they're talking about a blind man. And, uh, so it reads, , verse one to three. And he passed by. He [00:42:00] saw a man blind from birth, and the disciples asked him, rabbi, who sinned this man or his parents, that he was born blind? And Jesus answered, it was not that this man sinned or his parents, but that the work of God might be displayed in him. So that would, that's our, our purpose like that is that. God's love would be displayed through Leo and our love for God and God's love, um, would just be displayed in us as we parent and as we teach our kids.

Well, you know what a Leanne, thanks, by the way, for sharing that. And what a powerful verse. , And again, I just wanna be really clear, listeners, , again, some of you, when Leanne reads that you have a great affinity and affection for it. 'cause that maybe is your belief. Some of you, it viscerally, , it makes a negative feeling to you.

Just stop for a second. Listen to the wisdom in that. And again, whether you see it as an actual thing that happened or not, it doesn't matter [00:43:00] right now. Forget all that listeners, listen to the wisdom in there. Because what I hear Leanne, in that that scripture you just read is we have this propensity to believe when bad things happen, that means somebody did something terrible and they're being punished. I think, I think that's the macro sort of takeaway a bit in that, in that, in that Bible verse, which is somebody must have done something so terrible that the universe or God or or ancestors is, is exacting punishment on another human and now on your family and then you've got Jesus in this case saying, well wait a second, you're missing the point

Mm-hmm.

You've got this all wrong. Actually this is actually because there's this thing somehow that the divine God, Jesus is all exec is, is, is, is amplified in weakness

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

and we [00:44:00] have this all. Totally as backwards in our society, particularly in North America because we look at strength virility, , upward trajectory, prophets, all these things.

This is a, this must be a the divine. You must be a prude by God. But in fact, there seems to be something very different in this wisdom that this Jesus is espousing, which I think is really, really important for us to understand because you clearly don't feel like you've been punished.

No, it's more like, well, this is, what are you gonna do with this? Who cares? In a sense, even like why it's happened or like, like in the broader stroke of like, why is autism happening? Like, yeah, sure. Like people should research it. , But like for us it's like, well, it is what are, what are we gonna do with it?

Like, are we gonna sulk? Are we gonna mm-hmm. It's like. No, we're, we're gonna, we're gonna [00:45:00] praise the Lord that we have a fantastic autistic kid who's teaching our children about patience and understanding, who's teaching us about patience? Oh, yeah. Understanding. To be clear. Just to be clear. Yes. Oh yeah.

And like who, yeah, he's got behavioral things, but he is affectionate and cuddly and funny, and connects with you. And like, , there is a spectrum in autism and we are thankful for where he is in it, that we, that we get to experience with him. Yeah. I mean, like, , being Leo's dad definitely transformed my understanding of faith and it deepened it because, .

It's an interesting thing to become a father and to relate to your child. And, , as the dad, I, I didn't carry Leo in my womb. I don't, , feed him and sustain him, , in any way. And so like, , , a, a father's bond to his kid, I think it's just unique anyways from that of a mother. , And I just, I remember very, very clearly over and over again in the [00:46:00] first year of Leo's life just holding him and being like, man, this is my flesh and bone.

Like, this is my son. Like, what I wouldn't do for you? Like, I just am so in love with you. You're like, this is like, oh, this is, if I love you this much. My belief is that God loves us infinitely more because we as just fallible, messed up human beings. How could we love, how could our love ever compare to the love that God has for us?

And so when I look at Leo. Yeah. And all of my kids, of course, and I think about man, like, I would give my life for you in a heartbeat wouldn't even cry. It wouldn't even be a thought like I would lay down my life for you. Right. And I think, man, it, it brings it all back full circle for me of like, well, Christ did lay down his life for us, and it, it draws me anyways closer to God because I'm like, man, , , when I get my priorities outta whack, when I'm thinking more about work or am , , my [00:47:00] ambitions and dreams and different things that I'm like, no, like it's recentering and it pulls me back to what matters and what doesn't in life, you

Wow, and, and thanks for sharing that. And listen again guys, if you're listening, and I just wanna make a point here. All of us through our journey of life, , have times of great blessing and and pleasure, and we have pain, and we have maybe the pain that, the kind of pain and pleasure that Aiden and Lan are talking about in their family.

You know, you might have different pain and pleasure in your life. And again, that the challenge with pain is, is that it often leads us away from, , our understanding of divine things in our lives. Okay. And again, for you, that might be you describe that as God for others of you, you describe it differently that that's okay right now. But , I would just encourage you if you've had difficulty in your life and it's led you away from something in, about what, , , maybe the essence of our life is beyond just this strange mortal thing we got going on. Hey, I just [00:48:00] encourage you. Don't, don't lose that along the way. Because it's easy to lose that because we have this idea that if we're on the right track, everything is gonna be great.

And when we're on the wrong track, then we get punished. And there's this weird dichotomy that we look at as humans about pleasure and pain and about blessing and punishment and all of the stuff that goes with this. And , there's lots of interesting themes in this conversation, but one of them for me guys is this, is that it is easy to interpret when things don't quite go as we plan that somehow we're off course or we're not on the right track.

And that's just a really poor interpretation I think, of life And what I love about. The conversation is, is that you guys haven't seen it that way. And , I think about this on a very practical level. Leo was your firstborn and he had autism. You had a choice as parents and, and as a couple to say, are we going to risk this again?

You mentioned you had, , I didn't realize this, but you, you mentioned that you had some miscarriages [00:49:00] before, so you obviously are, , you've, you've got a difficult journey when it comes to, , having a child and then you have a child, and of course you're people of faith. So I can imagine, again, if I get myself into the psyche, you've had some miscarriages, you're probably, , seeking God for something better.

You now have you, you get pregnant, this is the answer. And then you have Leo and you realize, man, this Leo's got some challenges. And then you've gotta, then you have a choice. Are we gonna do it again? And what I love about your story is you go, yeah, we're gonna do it again and we're gonna do it again. That's, to me is such an interesting part of the story because I think a lot of people would give up hope, they give up faith, give up, whatever along the way. And what I love about you guys is that that's not who you are. And I do think that, know, there there is a, there's a, there's that thing in that story where it's like, you know, you know, did it, did, did his [00:50:00] parents or did he sin?

And then Jesus' wisdom, no, this is actually about something bigger. This is actually for the glory of, of God. This is for the glory of the divine. , And that maybe is really the, the byline of the story

Mm-hmm.

for you guys and for Leo and for Betty and for Walt and for everybody you encounter along the way. And the other thing, 'cause I know you guys enough and maybe Aiden, you, obviously you and I talk a lot more, but what I love Aiden, and I wanna just acknowledge this is.

You are, you, you, you are a person who wants to be kind and compassionate, considerate by nature, which I love. But what I love about this, for me, as I watch you and I listen, and you and I have conversations sometimes in our life about, being kind and compassionate and caring is great, you're also learning to contend

Hmm.

for yourself, your family, and your son.

Mm-hmm.

And contend at times when the school system isn't doing its best and people aren't doing their best. And, [00:51:00] and, and what I love about that is that's, that's really powerful because I think sometimes we think that it's kind of compassionate not to contend. That being, being a contender, fighting for something somehow wars against being kind and compassionate, considerate.

But actually I believe there, there, it's all on the table. And so the one thing I would say that I love in my conversation with you, Aiden, and uh, Leanne, I think you're a contender as well for sure, is that you're learning how to be kind and compassionate to yourself, to your children and others and, and not, not, but, and contend with passion and potentially aggression for that which is important for you, your family, your son.

And I think that's hard for people to, to balance those, those things between them. And I love, I love that actually, Aiden, when you and I talk and you know, you've just went in and, , we're fairly firm with somebody about something that's not working. I just just love that because that's what fathers, mothers [00:52:00] parents do for their kids.

They contend for them in a world that isn't always in their corner.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I

would say 

I love that.

aid, he is fantastic at that. His business skills come through in a sense with all the great communication, communication and confrontation, respectful ways like yeah, it comes out now as a, a dad and with the schools and making sure we know all we need to know and everything like that to make sure our son is, , getting in a sense all the resources he can.

And we had a meeting recently and Oh, he's so helpful there because I might get a little more flustered. , Yeah, I don't know. Like it, I mean, I, I am, , Tim, I mean through, many different coaching calls over the years with you. , I think I've gotten that much more comfortable to have. Good, vulnerable, , conversations with people and certainly with myself, right?

To, not just accept whatever excuse I wanna [00:53:00] make for myself, but really dig deep and challenge myself to something greater. Right? And so, for me, it, it comes naturally in the sense of, arguing on behalf of my son. And I would do it for any one of my kids because I just love them so much and I wanna give them everything I can.

Right? And Leo specifically, it's an interesting thing and it, it's, I imagine all parents experience this at some point, and for us, it felt like it just came early in our parenting journey with Leo, specifically Leo or Leo especially. Anyways, Leo will have challenges in his life that I cannot protect him from, that I cannot save him from.

And so what that, in, what, what that means for me is. In any area where I can help him, push for him, advocate for him. That is not just my duty and responsibility and expectation as a father and as a husband, but it's my joy because I love my son. And I [00:54:00] frequently will summarize, , my journey as a dad is saying, if this is what it means to be Leo's dad, I'm in.

Like, I, I don't know what I'm committing to fully. Just as I think when you get married, you don't fully know what you're committing to. Right. And who I'm sitting next to today, 11 years later is not the person I married at the altar 11 years ago. Right. But it's also supremely beautiful and I mean like a fine wine over here in more ways than one.

But , like with there you go, like, you know. Being my kid's dad. It's like, whatever that means, whatever that takes, I'm up. I'm, I'm gonna do it. And, and , again, for, for me, and for us, it is, we really believe that it is by the grace and the strength of God that we had the ability to do that.

Like, I remember, , I talked about that kind of one week grieving period when we found out Leo had autism, where we kind of [00:55:00] arrived at after a week, was like, man, okay, the, like, we're in this. I'm glad I got you and you're glad you got me and we're gonna navigate this. And, and obviously like, , what's the alternative?

Like, give him up to adoption. Like, no, like, are you crazy? I'm not gonna do that. And, and for us, we just felt, uh, uh, an overwhelming, like foundational piece about it to know that we. Walk in faith, we believe that Leo is loved by God the father, so much more deeply and perfectly than we could ever love him.

And so let's do our best and let's give it a go. But we find a lot of peace and and refuge in the fact that if God loves Leo all the more than we do, you know it. It's not promising Leo a life free of suffering. Not in the least nor us, but there is a lot of comfort that we find in that.

Yeah. And, and that does [00:56:00] remind me. I mean, there is a age old saying, and it is found in the Bible that apparently, God's, , power, , the divine power, . Is perfected somehow or enhanced in our weakness, not in our strength, not in our virility, not in our ability to control all of our circumstances.

It's actually perfected in our weakness and, and that. To me is an important reminder. Again, if you're listening and you're listening in for a reason, Hey listen guys, what a really, , precious conversation. First of all, thanks for having it with me. Thanks for having it with my listeners. , And my hope again, if you listened in and you're still listening in, that you're asking yourself a subset of questions.

And, the one thing also, again, I just wanna be really, , practical for a second. Aiden and Leanne have a complex life and, uh, there's a subset of other expenses they manage and things they have to figure out as a couple and what work looks like and how they figure all that out.

And Aiden, you know, , has a really wonderful job, but he also does this side hustle at the [00:57:00] doghouse where he does design work. And he's done lots of great work for me over the years, and you might want him to do some great work for you too. So, Aiden, seriously, like if people wanna hunt you down, first of all, if they want to connect with you and maybe chat with you about their life or their story, or maybe they gotta child with special needs and they, they want to chat a bit. Or if they wanna put your great mad skills, , to, to play for them in marketing and graphic design and all the great things you guys do, , photography, you probably do some other things. Oh, videography, you do, you do it all. How do they find you wonderful people?

I mean, uh, easiest way, , to get in touch with, anyway, me directly anyways would be just doghouse design.ca. I mean, at the end of the day, if, if you can see our names somewhere in the podcast description, what have you, if you google Aiden Henry, Leanne Henry somewhere, we'll pop up there. We're on social media and all the classic places.

But yeah, I mean, I know I speak for the both of us when I say that we would absolutely connect with any parent, [00:58:00] especially if you're at the beginning of this journey and feeling very lost. 'cause it was an interesting thing for us. You know, when, , we, Leo was diagnosed at the Hamilton Hospital, I don't remember the name of it, but the Children's Hospital there.

Yeah. , And, , they were, they were trying to comfort Leanne by saying, oh. You know, what's great about this hospital is there's like entire floors dedicated to autism. And, and they were saying till the end, you know, okay, it's a, it's a, today's a heavy day, you're probably not gonna hear much more of what we're saying.

So, come back in a week and, and we'll really kind of hold your hand and walk you through this. And that was absolutely not true. We felt no handholding whatsoever. Absolutely. Like, put your name in the waiting list for funds and that's all we do. Yeah. So, again, like we feel very fortunate that now through the number of years that we've, been on this journey, we've stumbled around and found out a few things.

And so, particularly for any of your listeners in Ontario, Canada, we definitely have, , some more direction that we can give. And just even sharing, , some of the different [00:59:00] techniques and things that we've learned that have worked with Leo because Leo's. Nonverbal. There's a lot of trial and error in there.

, But, and I wanna just say, , we do have Leo in some therapies right now. , While we wait for funding, and my parents do help out with that. Mm-hmm. So I just wanna shout out and say, thank you mom and dad for Yes. For also loving our son and allowing him those opportunities because mm-hmm. We, we couldn't afford them right now.

Uh, that, that's, that's, that's awesome, Leanne. And thanks for thanks for that shout out because you know what, this is where we, this, this is what being real family is.

Mm-hmm.

Listen, it's easy to be, you know, you guys know we, I mean, we have, we have two kids and Melissa just got married last year and, obviously you guys know Chris and Emily quite well and our grandkids and, this is where family shine or not.

We're not, no.

It's, it's in the difficult moments. It, it's in coming together and it's being family and it's pitching in and doing what's required , and it doesn't mean it's always convenient or easy, [01:00:00] it just means that it's the right thing to do. And there is wonderful blessing and benefit in it. And I appreciate that acknowledgement of your parents along the way.

Guys, thank you so much for this conversation. And again, if you're listening in, you're listening in for a reason. Do me a favor, , if something in this conversation has got your attention. I imagine it might have 'cause it's a very different conversation that I typically have on my show. , Do me a favor.

DM me or email me@timatunmodified.com and let me know how you are processing all of this. And, just remember that if your life is full of a little bit of pain right now, it doesn't mean that you're off, you're off course. Oh, there goes my dog. He's barking now because somebody just rang the door. It doesn't mean you're off course in your life.

It doesn't mean that you're moving in the wrong direction. It just might mean you're moving into a place where God or the Divine or something else actually will be able to be heard more effectively by you in this season than in season of tremendous great blessing [01:01:00] or what we think is blessing, which isn't actually.

Thanks again for listening in. Have a great day. Cheers.