DISTILLING WISDOM: UNCORKED with MATT HOWELL

What if the richest lessons in life, leadership, patience, and reinvention weren’t written in books—but aged in barrels, brewed in backrooms, and matured with patience? 

In this UNCORKED conversation, Tim Windsor sits down with Matt Howell—VP of Operations at Collective Arts Brewery, head distiller, microbiologist, and the “Pour Master” of Saint Howell Tastings—to explore what the distillation process of beer and whiskey can teach us about becoming better leaders, better creators, and better humans. Together, they uncork the gritty truth about fermentation, failure, experimentation, and the radical patience required to craft anything worth sipping—or living.

From exploding barrels to peated perfection, Tim and Matt expose the truth behind the myths—why older isn’t always better, why tension must be broken to unlock flavour (and freedom), and why predictability kills innovation. You’ll walk away challenged to embrace experimentation, to blend complexity like a master brewer, and to honour the process—even when the outcome is uncertain. 

Oh, and if you’re lucky, you might score one of two seats at a private scotch tasting event at Tim’s home in late August 2025. But be warned: the whisky will be strong, but the life lessons will be even more powerful.

Tim Windsor
the UNCOMMODiFiED Podcast – Host & Guide
tim@uncommodified.com
https://uncommodified.com/
  
PRODUCERS: Kris MacQueen & Alyne Gagne
MUSIC BY: https://themacqueens.ca/

Transcript

PLEASE NOTE: UNCOMMODiFiED Podcast episode transcriptions are raw text files and have not been proofed or edited. They are what they are … Happy Reading.

 © UNCOMMODiFiED & TIM WINDSOR

[00:00:00] 

What if the best life leadership and self-discovery lessons weren't mixed in a boardroom or a backyard, but distilled in a barrel or brewed in a backyard? What if the secret to patient's precision and transformation is hiding in your pint glass right now, or a slowly aging cask?

In this uncork episode, we're cracking open the world of beer and whiskey. My favorite worlds not just to sip, but to search deep inside of. We're gonna dive deep into fermentation, distillation, and the blend of pressure and time that crafts something bold, unforgettable, and fully alive. Life and leadership like brewing and distilling requires intention.

Discipline, curiosity and the courage to wait for depth to develop. You should keep listening if you're ready to chase that kind of aroma and raise a glass to everyone who knows that greatness like a magnificent whiskey or brewsky is never rushed, but always refined by time and effort.

Hey, my friends. Welcome back to the Unmodified podcast. I'm Tim Windsor, and today my guest on the show [00:01:00] is Matt Howell. Matt, welcome to the show.

Thank you for having me.

That's gonna be fun. Now a bit about Matt and how we met. So Matt is the Vice President of Operations and Head distiller at Collective Arts Brewery. He's a trained microbiologist with a master's degree in brewing distilling.

Matt has elevated the art and crafted brewing distilling at Collective Arts with his colleagues since 2015, guiding operations quality and packaging across multiple award-winning brands. But Matt is also the. Poor master. This is, I invented this term for you, Matt. Poor master. Not, not but POUR.

The poor master at St. Hal Tastings, where Matt transforms every sip into a story, hosting intimate guided tastings of beer, scotch, and other spirits, which Matt will be doing for me. And 19 guests at a private scotch tasting experience this summer on August 22nd, 2025, about a month from the time that this podcast goes live.

And I bid [00:02:00] and won this event, this experience at a charity auction. And that's how I met Matt along the way. And at the end, listeners, here's something for you. You could be one of those 19 people who joined Matt and I at my home for this tasting. And we're gonna, tell you how later on, we're gonna leave that for later.

But of course, this is an uncorked conversation. A true uncorked conversation. 'cause we're gonna uncork something to drink and then talk about making drinks. This is good, Matt. I love it. What are you drinking tonight my friend?

Uh, I'm enjoying a 16-year-old Glen Livet from the Scotch Malt Whiskey Society. Really nice. Uh, ex Sherry finished, whiskey, so it should be nice.

Got got like that. Now listen, funny enough, we didn't, we didn't rehearse this, but I got a 16-year-old as well.

Oh, no way.

My favorite 16-year-old. A 16-year-old lag of wound.

that's great. Well show, we'll share bottles. That one's mine there. But uh, that Lego of os one of my favorites by

Oh, I love it here. Cheers to you, my friend.

You [00:03:00] too. Cheers.

Mm. Oh, my son and I, , did a scotch trip in 2021, I believe, June, and we went to Isla for, almost a week. And we just toured around the distilleries. We hired a private driver. His name was Duncan. The guy was a, uh, the guy was an electrician for di all the Diageo properties, so he knew everybody. It was awesome. And one of the best tours we did was at Lag Ofwell and we bought a 26-year-old distiller edition to bring home. But it was a, a delightful trip. And so I do like the lag, and that is for sure. It's pretty awesome stuff. I, I can't, can't imagine life without it. So, Matt, we're gonna get, we're gonna get into this conversation now, and so here's a question.

So. Why did you find yourself in this world? It's a little non-traditional world, so why did you find yourself here and what, at the end of the day do you see that distilling the process of distilling either a great beer or, or the whiskey distilling process or a [00:04:00] clear spirit? What does this teach us about life and maybe leadership and ourselves that, that's kind of what I'm interested in.

Of course. 'cause I want, there's gotta be some major lesson in all this drinking I'm doing. Matt, come on.

So I'll give you the background of how I got to be where I am. Know, I did my undergraduate degree at University of Guelph, and I really enjoyed microbiology and what I studied, and I always knew I wanted to continue to utilize what I had learned there.

Uh, but do something fun. You know, I, had many, other job experiences at labs, at medical facilities, uh, research facilities, things like that just weren't my thing. And it just so happened, in third year when I was there. I had a housemate that got a job at Sleeman, and so that kind of got me thinking.

And, uh, you know, I realized, uh, hey, you know, microbiology and, and beer and, and spirits really go well together. They kind of, they're, uh, You really need to have a strong, microbiology kind of background in order to be a good brewer, distiller. And, you know, the other aspect of that is I knew I wanted to do a postgraduate degree [00:05:00] and, I did some research and I found like, oh, I could do that.

And in brewing and distilling as well, and found, there were three schools at the time when I went to school. There were three main schools that offered, postgraduate degrees. There was one in Berlin. Called Efen. There was, uh, uc, California Davis, , and then there was Harriet Watt University in Scotland.

So, applied to all three and got accepted and I was like, well, when's the next time I'm gonna be able to go to school in Scotland and, and live there for a year? So that got me there. Then while I was there, I was lucky enough to get a, a part-time job at a facility called the, uh, Scot Sch Malt Whiskey Society.

Which is a, a private members club that specializes in single cast, cast drink whiskey. So it really gave me access to a lot of really unique whiskeys. A ton of variety. Like, and at any one time behind the bar there were, you know, three to 400 different bottlings. And, you know, you had to know, what was in each bottle, certain flavor characteristics, because people would come to you at the bar and, and be like, I want a whiskey that has a, as a plumb taste to it, or something that's not too smoky or, something that's old. [00:06:00] And so you have to pick those bottles out and describe it to them and tell them why they would like it. And so it kind of really , built my pal up there.

And that's really kind of what I love about spirits and beer and, and fermentation technology. And, and what I do for a living is, twofold. It's, it's the uniqueness of it. It's, uh. The variety. There's always tons of stuff out there. People make their own kind of styles.

You know, there's different TIRs to, you know, scotch whiskey as well. Not necessarily the same TIR as you would see with wine, but you know, there's the different regions and they all have their specific styles and there's, typical reasons for things like that. , On top of that.

And to kind of answer the second part of your question, what, , distilling and fermentation teach me and what I hope they teach others about life is, you know, is patience. A lot, think of a whiskey. Whiskey is especially scotch. Scotch whiskey probably has the longest age requirements that of any of the, brown or aged spirits out there.

And, you know, there's a reason for that. It's the environment. It's cool. And you know that patience really rewards you when you try a nice whiskey, especially when you compare it to some of the other brown spirits, like [00:07:00] bourbons and rums are outstanding, but they, uh, there's, there's a certain quality to scotch that, eight to 12 or or 16 years in a cask just, you can't compare it to anything else.

So.

No, you can't. And, and so again, listen, if you're listening in, I always say you're listening for a reason. So you might not be a partaker in the spirits and that's okay. But there, I think there's some lessons that you're gonna learn and you're already hearing that. 'cause there is a wonderful patience that's required when you set.

Down a spirit or an investment for so long to be able to recoup. Obviously when we're talking about, you know, distilled spirit and then we're putting it in a cast, we're trying to figure out where it's gonna go, which is really a fascinating science to me. Obviously, I'm not an expert in this donor science.

Done lots of tours, so I think I know lots, Matt, but I know, know anything. So let's . Dissect the conversation in two parts. Let's talk about brewing beer and let's talk about distilling spirits and we'll talk about these age spirits and we'll, we'll come back to that. So, so you come back, you've had this experience in Scotland, it's all around age, spirits, and now you come back and somehow you find [00:08:00] yourself into the beer brewing industry.

So let's talk about that. So what attracts you to go from where you were into the beer business? And let's talk about your journey there and what. What that sort of, the nuance of that and how it's different.

Yeah. You know, the, the beer, you know what, what drew me to the beer business initially to be quite honest, is there wasn't much of a spirit industry or, or craft spirit industry in Canada when I came back. Like there were, distilleries here, but there, really wasn't much opportunity for me to take advantage of that.

And, I'm from Kitchener originally and wanted to kind of move back to the area, close to my family. And so the opportunity that was here was really around beer. I always kept, an eye out for, for spirit related, employment or opportunities. And that's kind of where I, jumped on the tasting side of things and took advantage of that and grew that business, , to what it is.

Um, but beer was really my passion and I just I stuck at it, you know, I made sure I. I learned as much as I could at, uh, [00:09:00] within the companies that I worked at uh, took advantage of opportunities that, were given to me and kind of have, have got to the position I'm in right now.

Right. And Running the operations at a, probably the largest, , craft breweries in, in Canada, so,

Yeah, you do. You know what, and what I love about collective arts too, it's, I mean, you guys brew really great beer, but also the whole the arts part of it and the way you guys look at your packaging and supporting the artistic world and all the stuff that goes into that, which is really quite Fascinating.

So here's a question I have about the difference between brewing beer and. And distilling a spirit. So in this case, is the general process of fermentation, is it generally the same or is it different in those two worlds?

you know, in, in general, the process of producing a beer versus producing a a, a spirit is the same, at least the front half of distillation, right? So, to produce , a whiskey, let's say, you take grain, you grind it up, you mix it with water, you create a mash. Which is basically [00:10:00] like a thick porridge where you're, you're breaking down the starches that are present in the grain.

It's as simpler sugar as the yeasts can ferment. And then, you know, once that mashing process is done, you're taking that mash and you're putting it into a water ton, which is a big sieve, to separate out the liquid portion, which is the wart. And, uh, removing it from the solid portion, which is the spent grain.

And then, that wart. From that stage, it that's where they, it kind of splits off from beer to spirits, with spirits, typically what you'll do is you might boil it at that point to sterilize the warts, but, and a bird distilleries, all they'll do is they'll collect that wart and they'll put it into a fermentor.

And they'll ferment that. And then once the fermentation is done, they basically have a beer. It's got no hops in it. It's, it's, but you could, you could essentially classify it as a beer. They take that, uh, that finished beer and they distill it. So they're basically concentrating down that alcohol.

Um, going back to beer though, like once you're collecting that wart, you're boiling it, you're adding hops, you're trying to [00:11:00] remove a lot of the solids that are present. In the wart just to kind of clarify it a bit, and then you're fermenting it and you can, you know, there's a whole, list of things you can do to the beer once, uh, fermentation is, is happening.

So that's how you kind of differentiate the two. But quite honestly, they're hand in hand. Kind of the same things is just, you know, whiskey is, is really just a concentrated version of a beer.

Okay. Interesting. And so, so at some point when the fermentation process is happening, you we're introducing and is it enzyme, what are we introducing? Yeast. I guess

You are using?

something that starts to activate and, and it starts to come alive and grow. Uh, and that's part of the process, which is kind of interesting.

So how do you control that and, and , can it get out of control?

Yeah. Oh no, for sure. When we talk about fermentation. Fermentation is basically yeast, consuming, sugars in the absence of oxygen and producing CO2 and alcohol. So, it's a living organism. It does its thing and, and it reacts to the environment it's in.[00:12:00] 

We control it typically by, you know, there's a number of factors. You know, the amount of yeast that's added. The amount of oxygen that's added at the start of fermentation really kind of dictates how fermentation will progress. You know, the temperature of. Of the fermentation will really dictate, what happens.

Uh, you know, as well, what nutrients are present, fermentation is the yeast consuming the sugar, but there does need to be a certain amount of nitrogen present,, in order for the yeast to appropriately function. Just like us, we can't just eat candy and, sweet things all day.

But, , yeast is the same thing. We need to balance, we need to have kind of that balanced diet. Um, and then, you know, o other things you add to the, to the beer during fermentation also play a big role. You know, some, in some breweries and deliveries, you know, you get secondary sugar additions

or, you know, in, in the case of some, uh, spirits, you may get a, uh, a spirit addition actually to the fermentation, to halt fermentation near the end. , And so there's a, number of factors. It's interesting, brewing and distilling are, are very, uh, [00:13:00] while, while they seem a little simple, they are quite complicated processes and, and things can go awry.

There is a bit of an art to it too, it's amazing some of the, uh, the recipes we've designed at Collective Arts and, and what's gone into them and, and how they've turned out,

It's fascinating. So what on average, how long does it from start to finish, how long does it take to make a beer that you guys would make?

uh, anywhere between, well, they typically take anywhere between a week to six weeks. And, you know, it's, it's really dependent on the yeast, the type of yeast we use. , You know, a bit of it has to do with some secondary additions we make.

So like if we dry hop or if we, uh, uh, do any fruit editions. Uh, but that's the big one, you know. Extrapolating from that, you know, we do have a big line of, of Barrelage products, so those ones take up to a year to finish. Right. So there's a, there's a, a large breadth of, of kind of time spans in terms of how long things take.

Okay, so just to clarify, so you take some [00:14:00] beer and you barrel age that beer.

Mm-hmm.

What does, so what does that do? The same to the beer that, is happening at a whiskey in that the beer is now taking on some of the flavor and complexity of the barrel or what's happening during that time? I.

Yeah. The main reason for barrel aging beer is exactly that, is to impart certain characteristics from the liquid that previously resided in the barrel into the beer. You can get some beers that are barrel aged where the the barrel acts as its own kind of microbiome for, you know. Wild yeasts and bacteria to kind of, um, do its thing.

But, you know, the majority of the barrel aged product we produce at Collective Arts, we are procuring used, , spirit barrels, so bourbon or um, or rum or rye barrels and putting a strong beer into there, usually 10% plus with the goal of [00:15:00] imparting some of the flavor of what was previously in that barrel into that beer.

So if I'm understanding the process correctly, you would have no exact idea. When, when you put that beer into that barrel, you have a belief about what could come out the other side, but you have no exact. Way of predicting what it's gonna taste when it comes out the other end, if I'm understanding.

A hundred percent. A hundred percent. That's why, you know, when we do barrel age stuff, we do barrel age beers. We do a variety. We do a, sorry, we put down a number of beers at the same time. 'cause there's a blending that needs to go on at the end when we, you know. We, even when we create new products, uh, on the Barrelage side, to your point, we have a rough idea of, how it's gonna taste in the end.

We also, you know, the other component of that is we have a rough idea of what the alcohol content is gonna be, right? Because we're really not sure exactly how much of that previous spirit is actually in the barrel. [00:16:00] Uh, and how much the beer is gonna absorb. So there, there is a lot of unknowns when we do that, barrel aging.

But like I said, you know, before we're lucky enough we have a great innovation team at Collective Arts and a ton of experience doing stuff like that. And, you know, with the combined experience of our entire team, we usually get a rough idea of how it's gonna end up. And, you know, usually we're pretty close.

The odd time we're not and we have to adjust accordingly. But usually we're pretty close.

It's amazing. So there's sort of this one part of this whole process that has to do with patients. You talked about that there is a patient, uh, uh, that's required in, in distillation, but in addition, there is a. A real powerful beckoning to experiment. If you're not willing to experiment, you're not gonna do well in this business.

It sounds like this isn't gonna work for you. And again, if you're listening in, I always say you're listening in for a reason. And so, you know, what does patience look like in your life? That's a good question for all of you to ask, whether it's in business or in life. And what does a quest for experimentation look like?

You [00:17:00] know, so often we want things so buttoned down and we're predictable, and we're gonna know exactly what it's gonna look like. Think about how many businesses are predicated on eradicating the experiment. They're all about the predictable, whereas your business is all about embracing the experiment. I.

Uh, which may be more businesses and more people, we all ought about be about that, embracing some experimentation. 'cause some really great things happen when we experiment and then we figure it out as we go. That, that's a really good life and leadership lesson for all of us to take. I think in this, how about, I mean, does this work out, uh, 90% of the time?

A hundred percent of the time. 80% of the time. I mean, how often do you get to the end of the process and say, oh my gosh, that just did not work. I.

Uh, it doesn't happen very often, but there, there are a number of instances I can, call it three or four instances I can think of in my head where, you know, we've got to the end and I'm like, that did not work. Like, that was not a great combination of [00:18:00] flavors. Or like, you know, you'll, you'll get spoilage of barrels too.

Like we've had, , you know, over my, my career, I've had instances of barrel age beers, you know, exploding because of an uncontrolled fermentation that happened. And, when we package it, you know, there's one or two that I've done that I, I clearly know, and I, I actually have bottles of them downstairs in my cellar that just to kind of save as a memento kind of thing.

But I, uh, you get to the end, I'm like, Ooh, that, that, that's not a great beer. Um, but, lucky enough, like most of them have turned out quite well and you learn from your mistakes and, uh, you know, you take those learnings to, and you translate them to other products you produce.

Now that, that's fascinating. Like, I like trophies to failure

Oh, yeah. Well, that's it, right? It's

in your basement.

exactly. Well, it's, you know what a great example of that on the whiskey side of things is, you know, when I used to work at the society, 'cause people always think, you know. The older the whiskey is, the better it is. That's not, that's, you know, and it's always a tale I always tell people [00:19:00] of, and it's not always the case, you know, I've tried whiskeys as young as three years old and as old as 40.

And, you know, one of my favorite whiskey, I always tell people one of my favorite whiskeys of all time was, uh. A 4-year-old , port finished Bmore beautiful whiskey, you know, had a rose color to it. The combination of smoke and port was like gorgeous. But I've also had a 40-year-old Glen Farkas that was black as tar and tasted like burnt tires.

It was amazing. So this high end whiskey club has a. Bottle that had aged too far. And you know, the only reason they bottle it is to show people an example of, yes you can, you can take things too far here and it gets too old. Um, and it's just, a good kind of teaching opportunity for people to be like, Hey, you want to try like this really old whiskey? It's not gonna taste great, but it's just gonna show you, hey, like, you know, things can go too far on, on this stuff. And just because you know, something. Claims there, it's got this certain age or there's certain quality to it does not necessarily mean it's, it's the best thing for you or it's, it's, it's the [00:20:00] best kind of product, so.

Yeah. So there's a lot magic in the marketing, I suppose, like in all things in life when it comes to these things. So, so, so here's, here's an interesting thing for me when we look at , this whole process, so. There is a, a part in which this, this experiment is alive. It's alive, it's growing, it's fermenting at some point in the process with beer.

Let's start with beer for a second. Does beer stop its living organic process or does it always continue?

Uh, beer will it? Not really. Beer is a living thing, like it'll continue to evolve over time. Um, uh, even, you know, uh. Basic, you know, IP or lager over time will continue to evolve based on the components that are there. You know, be it biological or chemical, like it, it's constantly developing. Sometimes it's for the good, sometimes [00:21:00] it's it's for the bad, uh, but typically beer, what will happen is once.

Fermentation is complete, or when we want fermentation to cease, we will, uh, crash. Cool. The beer, so basically means we'll take the beer from fermentation temperature, which is usually around, call it 16 to 20 degrees, and we'll cool it down to zero degrees. And what that does is the yeast stops fermenting.

Um, and it settles out to the bottom of the tank, which allows us to collect it and reuse the yeast. Uh, and it kind of, it, it kind of puts the, think of it as almost putting the yeast asleep kind of thing for a bit. Uh, and then depending on the style of beer or, or the requirements of the, uh, the customer, we will either remove as much or as little yeast as possible and package it as such, and then you'll get secondary microbial activity happening over time.

It's interesting now, for those of you who're listening who are [00:22:00] not in, a country that measures by centigrade by Celsius, this to be clear, these, I believe these are, these are Celsius. Degrees not Fahrenheit, just to be clear. 'cause I'm gonna get, I'm gonna get calls and go 20 degrees. What do you mean 20 degrees?

No, I, this is 20 degrees Celsius, I

of course. Yes, yes. I apologize. Yes.

Yeah, continues to live, which is awesome. Now what about, so on the spirit side, so does that continue to live over time or does it have a place in which it's sort of after? It's out of the cast, let's say. So, you know, I'm drinking a leg of one and it came out at 16 years.

Came out of the cask. Now I'm drinking. It is, does it continue to live after or is it now, is it dead?

Well, we, we, we talk about spirits once it reaches the spirit stage. So distillation has happened and it's been concentrated, the ma the aging that happens with spirits all happens within the barrel. So, , when you bought, you know, when you purchase, you know, your 16-year-old Lego, or, or you [00:23:00] know, your, your 25-year-old, the Freud or whatever, um, that's the amount that age declaration that's on that bottle is the amount of time that whiskey spent in the barrel, and it's the amount of time.

The youngest whiskey in that bottle spent in the barrel. So with, with a number of those products, like leg and, um, it's a single malt whiskey. But what that means is that the whiskey that's in that bottle, , it's uh, all from one single distillery. It can be from a number of different casks. But it's from one single distillery.

So you get a blend of products. So the age dec, so you know, when you buy that 16-year-old Lego V, um, they can have 16-year-old , whiskey in there. They can 18, they could have up to, they could have 40-year-old whiskey in there for all I know. Um, but that age declaration is the youngest whiskey that's there.

But no, once it's bottled, there's, there's no real aging that happens.

Okay, so now we've got traditional blended whiskeys, and then we have what we call, in this case we [00:24:00] have single, single malt whiskeys, so a blended whiskey. So. Here's a question I have. I saw a documentary one time, uh, and I was very poo poo on blended whiskeys for a long time. So, you know, at the height of my collection, I, I used to collect a lot of single mal.

I had about 65 bottles or so of single mal at one point, which I eventually bequeathed to my son. The funny thing about that is about six months ago, my son calls me up and says, Hey, dad, I thought all those bottles you gave me were empty. I said They were not empty. He said. I I, the other day I was checking and there's still stuff I said, yes, there was, they're not, none of them were empty when I gave 'em to you. But, but, uh, so I gave him all to him and I thought I'll just, uh, I won't drink as much. I'll collect here and there, but that doesn't work always great for me. But I was really a, I was a bit of a snob when it came to, came to blended whiskeys. And I saw this documentary on the art of blending. I was fascinated because I'm like, how in the world can somebody take all of these whiskeys and blend them to a, a [00:25:00] similar profile?

'cause now they're commercially going out and that product needs to taste similar to the consumer. Oh my gosh, what a complex world.

Yeah, they are, you know, master blenders are, are amazing people. Like, I don't think people appreciate how hard it is to do their job where, you know, you're going into a warehouse and you're picking, you know, there's millions of barrels there. And you're picking, you know, 300 at a time that, you know, when you mix together are going to give you that, you know, that typical, you know, BMORE or Leg or Glen Farkas or Akosh and kind of character that you want.

And it's, it's amazing. Like when I first started down the path that I'm at on, on the whiskey tasting side of things, it took me a, a solid. You know, three to four months of, it sounds funny, but three to four months of really tasting stuff, you know, trying a bunch of things and like thinking about, you know, what am I picking out?

Because that ability to taste [00:26:00] something and, you know, being able to associate that to a certain characteristic or a certain item in the world is really hard. But then to extrapolate that, to be able to taste, you know. Like I said, a hundred different things. Being like, okay, I'm gonna combine these all and I'm going to get this flavor.

It's unbelievable. They do an amazing job.

It's interesting. You know, I liken it to when I, when I watch this document and I was thinking about it, it's almost like an orchestra conductor.

Oh

taking all these different things which have a different complexity, whether musical instruments, and they're conducting them into a certain note. And it is, I mean, and you, when you hear a great orchestra, whether it's a rock band or whether it's a real orchestra, whatever, you wanna look at this, the fact that people can play, and there's this sense in which there's all this.

Difference, but it's coming out as one is a really interesting process. And again, I think this has such a great application for us in life and business because, you know, you are orchestrating this in all these individuals at your company and they're, or you're [00:27:00] orchestrating them into this one sort of thing for the sake of the business, the, the brew, the customer, the experience.

You know, I do that in my business. People do that all the time. We do it in communities, you know, so we have this wonderful diversity and complexity, but yet. There's a unification that happens in the process as it comes together, and that's a really interesting thing. And again, if you're listening in, think about how that applies to your world, to your life, to your business.

Because I think sometimes we can get so locked down in these things that we forget that there is something powerful and be able to blend this diversity into something that comes together. Again, that could be in our community, it could be in our politics, it could be in lots of different things. I think there's lots that we can learn from this world of spirits and the complexity that happens.

And I mean, I just find, find this whole, this whole world very, very fascinating to me. And, and then this idea, I mean, the oldest, uh, scotch that I ever had was I had a [00:28:00] 53-year-old, I wanna say it was, uh, it was a Glen Gordon, I believe, and we wet our grandson's head, wetting the baby's head, which is a great tradition with this thing.

Hmm

I was like, man, it was so good. Now, I know, as you said, sometimes age doesn't really play a part and it can be bad, but man, it was so beautiful and smooth. But it's interesting. So now I wanna talk about this because there's this age old debate. We're gonna talk about whiskey for a second here. There's an old debate here now.

So, so, ice, no ice. Little bit of water, no water. Um, so I want, I like to understand the science behind using a little bit of water.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. The science behind it really is, is that there are certain volatiles, um, you know, certain chemical components in spirit, um, that will. Uh, dissipate essentially from the spirit at, at certain alcohol concentrations, right? So, [00:29:00] you know, the less water that's there, the more ethanol that's there, the more those components are bound to the spirit.

And by adding, , a bit of water to your spirit really kind of allows those components to be released and allows the spirit to open up. You know, I usually recommend, uh. You know, no more than 20% water to your whiskey. Um, and you know, the other thing I always say is, you know, try, try your whiskey meat first, so without any water, and then add a touch to it because they are much different.

You know, some whiskeys do really, really well with water added to it like Dal Winnie Distiller's edition. Is a great example of that. People are trying to find something that's more a little easy, accessible. You know, it, when you add water to it, it opens up into like tropical fruit and it's just, it's the most beautiful bouquet on the nose.

Uh, you know, it neat is quite nice as well. [00:30:00] It's got a slight sweetness to it, but it, it really opens up with a bit of water. But then on the flip side of it, you know, Lehr, uh, did a. Uh, I think it was called Calders or something like that. It was a, it was a whiskey they released as part of it was, it was a, a variation of their quarter cast whiskey they released as part of some festival.

And I remember trying that with a bit of water and it turned into mothballs. It was the most, most unpleasant thing in the world, which is too bad. 'cause I, you know, I love la fro, it's, it's a great whiskey and I love ped whiskey. And it was just, you know, but it was good to know, you know, some do better, some do worse.

And so it's just one of those things and it's just, you know. Bye. I prefer my whiskey neat, but usually the first time I try it, I add, you know, I add a bit of water to it, see how it changes. Okay, great. And then I can go back to having it neat. So.

That is interesting and again, I I what I heard about this, and I'll test this theory, I, we were, my wife and I did a, a bourbon distillery tour at, uh, Elijah Craig in, uh, Louisville, Kentucky a number of years ago. And great tour. [00:31:00] And then we got up to, they have a beautiful sort of 1940 bar that you go into.

They've done a great job with this. It's just beautiful. And you go up and so the, the master distiller comes and does this sort of tasting with you. Great job, all good marketing, good theater. And they give you two glasses of the same bourbon, exactly the same. What he does is he says, okay, drink this. Take a, take a drink here and you know, have a drink of that one.

Neat. And he, then he takes a dropper and literally introduces three drops of distilled water

Yeah.

into it. And then. Taste it and it's like it's a different drink

A hundred percent.

his science behind that was, which is interesting, he said, and probably you talk about being bound to the spirit. He said, what happens is, is that wa just that little bit of water breaks the surface tension

Hmm.

that drink and just releases the flavor and it was amazing how different.

It smelt just by introducing three drops of water. I, I [00:32:00] couldn't believe it. And so, again, this is interesting because I think this speaks to me a little bit also in my own life, as you know, sometimes we've, we've gotta sort of just sort of break the tension. I. That to release the flavor in our own life.

Sometimes there's tension in our, in our psyche, sometimes there's tension. We gotta break some tension to release flavor to make it more flavorful in our lives. And this is, again, why, maybe it's, I, overanalyze these things, Matt, because I have to justify my own, uh, scotch drinking. But this whole world is so fascinating for me.

And I, you know, I, I wish some days, every once in a while, like, I would like this kind of job. How so? How does a guy get a job? Like Matt's job? I guess I gotta go to school. I guess I gotta get a master's. I gotta be a microbiologist man. Oh man. I don't think I'm having this job, Matt.

There, you know, it's, I am, I, I always remind myself, I'm very lucky. I'm very blessed to be in the position I'm in. Uh, you know, I, I do, I I love what I do every day. I, I love be able to tell people what I do every day. It's, it's a lot of fun. It's a lot of fun, and I am very [00:33:00] lucky. So.

It is pretty cool. I had a buddy of a good friend of mine, his son was a, he was a spirit reviewer for a, a magazine in the US for years called Uncrate.

Hmm.

so people from around the world sent him spirits and he would drink. Them and review them. That was his job. Okay. Talk about the best job ever.

I mean, that was his job and every time I would go down to where he lived and he, he ran a ta, a bourbon tasting business. You run a scotch tasting, but he ran a bourbon tasting business and he also. Got well known to have a good nose. And so he got involved and was able to, at times choose special ca uh, cast for some of the , big distilleries and the big heavy hitters in, in Kentucky.

So, you know, this is a very fascinating industry. So listen, Matt, I love the conversation and I'm gonna, we're gonna bring it in for a landing, but before I do that. Um, so you, you and I met at this charity event I bid on, uh, you know, this came, we were, we were there. I didn't know what was coming out. There was an auction not [00:34:00] silent, which was good.

There was an auction for this event, and you got up and you sort of did your marketing spiel about, Hey, you wanna. Buy this thing. And, um, and so I, I enjoyed my opportunity to bid on this thing and, uh, and to support the local charity, but now we're coming to a point where we're gonna have this event, and I'm looking forward to having you at my house.

So, listen, if you're listening here now, listeners, this is what you need to listen into. So what's gonna happen is, is on August 22nd, 2025, so in about a month or so from the time you're hearing this episode, when it releases. Matt's gonna be at my home in Kitchener, and we're gonna have a private scotch tasting event for myself and 19 other people.

I'd say 19 friends, but I don't have 19 friends. So 19, I'm gonna say 19 other people and I have left open. I. Two seats at this, uh, event. And the reason for that is, is that I'm always interested in meeting new people and having a drink with [00:35:00] them. So you listeners, you're listening in if you are in the general area and want to drive here.

Now I wanna make a caveat. If you drive here, you might have to stay at my house. No, you won't have to do that, but you might need an Uber. Okay, just to be clear. 'cause you wanna be responsible, but I am gonna give away, uh, two seats to that event, to that experience at my house. And so here's what's gonna happen.

So you're either gonna call me on my mobile number, which I'm gonna give to you right now publicly. Okay, I'm gonna give you my mobile number, so you're either gonna call me or you're gonna DM me, or you're going to email me@timatunmodified.com and you're gonna tell me why I need to meet you and why whiskey is your drink of choice.

So that's, that's the challenge here. And then we're gonna take whoever calls and we're gonna, I'm gonna write down their story and then. My wife and I are going to decide who gets to come and we'll notify you. So [00:36:00] if you wanna call me, my mobile number is 5 1 9 4 9 7 2 2 5 5. That's 5 1 9 4 9 7 2 2 5 5 or DM me any social media platform that you follow or email me@timatunmodified.com and tell me why you should be part of this event with Matt and my.

19 other people, not all my friends, 'cause I don't have that many. Now, just to wet your appetite a little bit, Matt, I told you about this, but I'm gonna do the big reveal here. So there is a scotch that we tried to get my son and I tried to get when we went to, to Isla and we couldn't, we couldn't get it.

It was too hard to find at the time. Um, and we didn't have time to hunt it down properly. Uh, because Brook La at, which is the distillery that makes this scotch, was closed during the time we were there for renovations. And so this scotch is called, and I'll put it here on the YouTube channel, Octa More and Octa more, I'll put it that way so you can read it.

Octa more is, I think, [00:37:00] considered the most heavily peated scotch that you can buy. Is that correct, Matt?

That is definitely correct.

Yes. And Timore. I thought it would be easy to get a bottle of Octa more when I came back in 2021. It took me three years to finally find a place because it's sold by allotment, it comes by special allotment across, uh, different markets.

And I found a wonderful spirit, retailer in Saratoga Springs, New York, where I have a customer and they. Get allotments. When I first approached the guy, he said, look, I haven't had that in two years. I dunno if I could get it. He actually called some people and the next time, every time I gone now for the trip, he has Octa more.

So I have bought several bottles of Octa more in the past, but when I was at my customers a couple months ago. I bought this bottle of Ur, it is Octa 15 three. So they do, every year they do three releases, I think. And this is a 15th year. This is 15 three. So for those of you who are into peed scotches, let me just explain what you'll be tasting if [00:38:00] you choose to taste this.

'cause it's not for everybody. I'm gonna keep this, I'm not gonna open it and Matt's gonna use it as one of the bottles that he's gonna, uh, give us some tasting of. So this is 307.2. Matt, on the PPM scale. Okay, so PPM scale is what Pete Per,

parts per million.

Parts per million. A peat. Okay, so it's 307, I believe that leg of wound is about 47 or so.

Okay, so this thing's got some, some heat, heat pea on it. Now in addition, they bottle this. I always, I believe at cast strength. So this one particularly is not only 307.2 on the peak meter, it is 61.3% alcohol.

Yeah.

This is not everybody's Dr. Let me put it this way. So just not to scare you away. Still call me (519) 497-2255 or email me at tim@oncommodified.com or DMA m me if you wanna come to, to scotch chasing.

Matt's gonna bring [00:39:00] some, uh, some bottles as well and all the glassware 'cause that's his business. So Matt, quick question. If people wanted to get ahold of you and, uh, get you to come to their private event and do some scotch tasting, how would they find you? By the way.

Uh, easiest way is to email me at saint.Howell@gmail.com. That's probably the, , easiest way, you could find me on LinkedIn as well, or, or the various other social media platforms. But, uh, the easiest way, if anybody wants to, you know, to do a scotch tasting themselves or, or host a scotch tasting themselves, or even if just have questions about scotch or you know, a bottle to buy saintHowell@gmail.com.

So that's Saint dot Howell, H-O-W-E-L-L, at gmail.com. Or you can call me, email me and you can be one of our guests. And when Matt comes to my house and we have this great tasting. Now, just so you know, Matt, my wife is gonna do a charcuterie board. She's got some taste, she's got some chocolate she's working on, she's working on, she's doing some research about what kind of [00:40:00] good.

Good goodies should go with scotch. So it's gonna be a great night. Thanks again by the way, for supporting, , the charity, , through this event. , It was a great opportunity and I am looking forward to having you at house. And again, if you're listening in an unmodified tribe, listen, stay on commodified.

Alright, drink responsibly. Let me make sure that we're putting this in. If you have, if you're in the Toronto area, Ontario area, Canada area, and you haven't tried Collective Arts beer, you ought to Great brew, do a great job. , Great, great, uh, supporters of the arts. So you get their, their beer cans, you put 'em on your shelf, you're gonna collect them forever, , and also find a spirit that you love.

And drink it for the right reasons. And remember that there are lessons in here, patience, persistence, , you know, breaking tension for the sake of flavor in our lives. Really important lessons. Matt, thanks for your time today on the show. Listeners, thanks for listening in. Cheers. Have an awesome day. And two of you, you come to my house, but we need to hear from you.

Cheers.