the COMEBACK: UNCORKED with EMILY O’BRIEN

What if the biggest transformation in your life didn't start with a clean slate, but with a criminal record?

What if the thing meant to crush you became the very pressure that cracked you open and released something new—something powerful, something irresistible? 

In this UNCOMMODiFiED Podcast conversation, Tim Windsor sits down with Emily O’Brien to explore what it takes to reframe your worst moment into the best story you can write. Emily’s story. From being arrested at Pearson International Airport in Toronto, Canada, with over two kilos of cocaine to building Comeback Snacks, a wildly successful mission-driven popcorn brand, Emily has turned rock bottom into a launchpad. 

Emily’s story isn’t just about popcorn—it’s about redemption, reintegration, and refusing to be defined by the lowest moment in your life. We explore how she built a brand behind bars, why she employs the formerly incarcerated, and the launch of her Comeback Catalyst program—training other second-chancers to create their own businesses. She shares the mindset shift that turned prison into her personal MBA, how trust can endure betrayal, and why listening to someone’s full story—not just reading their rap sheet—can change everything.

If you’ve ever felt stuck—in a job, a relationship, a poor decision, or just in your own head—Emily’s story will inspire you to stop waiting for permission and start creating your next chapter right now. This isn’t a soft-focus redemption tale. It’s raw, genuine, and incredibly motivating. And by the end, you’ll be asking yourself one question: What’s the comeback you’re ready to make?

Tim Windsor
the UNCOMMODiFiED Podcast – Host & Guide
tim@uncommodified.com
https://uncommodified.com/
  
PRODUCERS: Alyne Gagne & Kris MacQueen 
MUSIC BY: https://themacqueens.ca/
 

Transcript

PLEASE NOTE: UNCOMMODiFiED Podcast episode transcriptions are raw text files and have not been proofed or edited. They are what they are … Happy Reading.

© UNCOMMODiFiED & TIM WINDSOR

[00:00:00] What if the biggest transformation in your life didn't start with a clean slate, but with a criminal record? What if the rock bottom of your life. Wasn't the end, but a starting point. And what if the hands at once broke the law could now build a business, a life, and a legacy? In this episode, we're turning up the heat and talking about what happens when you refuse to be burned up and instead you pop back up like kernels in a pot.

Pressure and heat doesn't destroy you. It actually has the ability to expand you, crack you open and release something entirely new and tasty. Hey my friends. Welcome back to the UNC Commodified podcast. I'm Tim Windsor, and my guest on the show today is Emily O'Brien. Emily, welcome to the show. 

Hello, Tim. Look at us m. 

we are gonna have, yeah, you know what?

I'm recording this past my bedtime, just so you know, for you, Emily. So all bets are off. I don't know where this is gonna go, because normally I'm in bed by eight o'clock. I'm I'm [00:01:00] old, but we're gonna have some fun with this. So listen, let me introduce Emily to your listeners. Emily is the founder of, a company called Comeback Snacks, who, by the way, I received some of Emily's.

Product for a Christmas gift last year and amazing product. If you've never found it, you gotta find it. I'm sure she'll tell you where. It's a mission driven popcorn company that she launched after being incarcerated to help others turn second chances into success story. She's a passionate advocate for reintegration.

For redemption and for reshaping the narrative around incar incarceration. Can't even say the word. I haven't even had a drink yet, and entrepreneurship in Canada. But of course this is an uncork conversation, so I always like to uncork a drink with my guests. Emily, what are you drinking tonight? I. 

I.

have, uh, some poppy, it's a lemon lime soda with a little, uh, Pepsi actually dis acquired this for billions and billions of dollars. So it's a CPG. Major success story, but it's also really good 'cause it's got apple cider vinegar in it. 

Look at that. You, you're drinking that I'm gonna have a non-alcoholic beer. Tonight is we're not gonna have, [00:02:00] because I did a podcast last night, uhoh 

Uhoh. 

Uhoh. That was not good. 

We're gonna choose the the camera. 

Mm. Yeah. Cheers. Cheers to you. I just got my beer all over my leg, but that's fine. 

I'll be fine. 

leg here. We love those. 

It happens. It happens. All right, Emily, I think this is gonna be a fun conversation.

So this should be very interesting. So Emily, you've got an amazing story obviously, and my macro question that I'd like to explore with you, and we'll find out your story along the way, is I would love to know what your journey's teaching you about yourself along the way, what it's teaching about others.

And how has your second chance that you have received, how is it benefiting you and others along the way? So, okay, Emily, we, we gotta understand this, you, you start a popcorn company while you are incarcerated. Is, this is not a typical business plan.

Nope, but prison isn't, wasn't really typical life plan either. 

Yeah. So did you take market share from another [00:03:00] popcorn company and they put you in jail? Or how do you end up in jail, Emily?

I ended up in prison, you know, definitely was never on my life plan. I went to university, did a kind of. The whole nine yards in terms of trying to build a career, path and everything like that. Um, family went through difficult times, struggled with substances to cope and went from, you know, I was always a drinker like in university of celebrating a university, but that took a turn for the worst one.

It went from like celebrating to medicating. And I found myself in not just like drinking, but also cocaine use. And I was living in Toronto, so it wasn't. That big of a deal, you know, it wasn't, no one really cares, like it's a party drug. Like, like, it's not like condemned or anything like that, you know what I mean?

So it was very easy to hide, medicating, as celebrating. Um, and I met someone I worked with, and I'd known him for about eight months. You know, he was, he was sober. He said he went through all of that and I knew that I was kind of not in a good place.

Like I knew that I was. Kind of living [00:04:00] dangerously, let's say with with all that stuff. And I wasn't happy. so he was sober, so I actually hung out with him a lot. And you know, you'll read some articles that say he was my boyfriend. He wasn't my boyfriend, he was more like a close friend. Like there was no like physicalness to this at all.

Um, but it was something that I really knew and trusted. And he invited me to go on a trip and we go onto this trip and three days in, he's like. Did you really think this trip was all fun and games we're here to work and went from, you know, this person that I thought I knew to a completely different person, like a demon.

And, um, turns out when he booked the tickets, he'd sent my passport to these people that he owed money to. I guess he was actually in a lot of debt. And, um, you know, I, I traveled a lot. I had extensive travel history, so he knew that I was struggling with substances. So maybe thought easy mark.

And I guess, I guess I was, and I don't regret that, you know, like I don't regret. Trusting someone, I'm not gonna live my life. Not trusting people. You know, there's people that, that do deserve it, right? So it's just like, I'm not, I don't feel bad that I made a mistake on that.

You know, I, I feel bad that maybe [00:05:00] I didn't recognize things sooner, but, hey, we're here today for a reason. 

That's true.

So anyway, I got arrested at Pearson International Airport with two point something kilograms, cocaines dropped my body, and then I pled guilty and served a four. Your sentence in Grand Valley Prison in Kitchener, Ontario. 

Oh, so you know, you know what? Like literally five minutes from my house. 

Oh goodness. We were neighbors. 

Yeah, we were neighbors and we didn't know it. See, I didn't realize that. Okay, so, let me just track here with you. So you go away, you think you're going on a little trip. Unfortunately, this trip goes a little bit sideways.

You obviously are, uh, asked to, required to, however this works. You, you now come back and now you're carrying cocaine. Uh, you get arrested, you plead guilty. You go to jail, and now you're in jail. So your life is. Gone in a massively different direction than you expect, and now you're in a situation where you're in free fall, different world.

So where does your journey now start [00:06:00] intersecting? Where does that past journey start intersecting with where your future is now and where it's taking you?

So my past journey, like, so how did this all start? This whole

So you, so you end up in jail, that's now your past, and now you're in there, and now you're starting to figure out what's the future gonna look 

Mm-hmm. 

So, I mean, now you own a popcorn company, uh, which is awesome. And by the way, the, the branding line of your company is brilliant, 

That was born behind bars, you know, take 

and, and I believe the branding, I remember when I got the popcorn. I think it said so good. It's criminal. I 

think it's what 

made with conviction, 

made with

conviction,

right? Made with 

conviction and so good. It's, these are very brilliant things. So, okay, so how does this work? You get out and start a company or you start this idea in jail.

So it, I had to spend two and a half years on house arrest before I even went to jail. And the first year of that was very, very dark. in like this emotional anguish. I was very depressed. You know, I [00:07:00] couldn't really leave my house, I couldn't talk about the case and I knew that person like wasn't me.

And I, but I also knew that, you know, there was consequences for actions. but I just got very tired of living in this emotional anguish. And I, 'Cause I was at my mom's house and we'd look at old photo albums together and it's like, I, I knew that I was a good person and so all these things that were being said about me, you know, by people that I knew that I didn't know that I was this horrible person.

Like, I just knew that it wasn't true and people telling me like, my life was over. And so I was like, you know what? That really pissed me off but it was definitely some spite. Because I was like, you're not gonna look at this. I was 25 years old. You know, there's 365 days in a year.

1 day out of 365 days, out of living 25 years, that one thing is gonna determine my whole future. No way. Absolutely not. And um, I kind of developed this mindset before prison that I was gonna do something, people are like, write a book. And I'm like, what? No one wants to hear about some girl who smuggled drugs and wrote a book.

Like, I didn't fucking, oh, sorry. I was like, I didn't do anything. I haven't 

You don't have, by the way, you don't have to be sorry that that's a common language on the 

Oh, 

Okay, so that's all fine. We have an explicit warning [00:08:00] just in case on 

all of our episodes. 

Parental like my CD in 

grade 

eight. 

case. Yes, it's fine.

And yeah, so I developed this like, kind of like, I'm gonna prove myself, right? And prove other people wrong. I didn't know what that was gonna be, but I also knew it couldn't have just happened to me. I was like, how is this not happening all the time? And then when I got to prison, I realized that a third of the women in there were in situations just like me. 

Wow.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And um, popcorn actually started from inside prison. ' Yeah. 

so, okay, so you're now, you're making popcorn in prison. 

Yeah, 

Okay, so popcorn starts in prison. when do you start saying, Hey, you know what, this could be my future business. When does that cross your mind?

I knew that it was gonna be my future. When I was in prison, I had this little book, and it was a book that I got from the chaplain 

Yeah.

and I still have it to this day. It is called Pop Thoughts. And it's all my goals and all the things that I want. Like I put something in there called pop stock. Eventually I wanna have my employees [00:09:00] be able to own stock in the company.

So I have like longer term goals and shorter term goals and and flavors. And so I began to like kind of see where I wanted this to go. Like with the flavors, with the hands that it was gonna be in, um, the stores that it was gonna be in, but also being able to hire the formerly incarcerated. 'cause when I got in there, I didn't meet people that broke the law.

I met moms, I met artists, I met. I don't think I have many, many doctors in there, but I met women and people in there that had skills, had talents, were completely capable of contributing well to society and, and the economy as well. And it's just very difficult to do that because you're just condemned even after you're done your time.

And I was like, something needs to be done about this. And like, I've always been, I don't wanna say like a workhorse, but like, I've always been stubborn. It's like when I see something that needs to be done, I wanna do it. 

And, um, Yeah.

that, like, that was the one thing we had in common was like we all realized that we were in there for a reason.

Not, not everyone. I mean, there's also a lot of mental illness unfortunately in prison, where it's like the person doesn't even know what they're doing. I'm talking about the people that realize they did [00:10:00] something wrong and they wanted to rectify the situation for themselves and their families and their, their reputations, right?

So I was like, maybe I can start this popcorn company where I can hire people and prove that we are worthy of redemption and second chances and. We make really great employees contrary to what people think. 

Yeah. And you know what, so what it's interesting to me, first of all, because this circumstance that you obviously find yourself in it crushes most individuals along the way. Obviously for you, this thing that wants to crush you becomes the thing that sort of. Transforms you into something else, which is, it's interesting.

It's almost like it's the metaphor in a sense of, of like the metamorphosis that happens in the crystals. You know, you, you go from one creature to a totally different creature. But it comes through a time of being bound up. I mean, it's a very interesting thing and the struggle out of the chrysalis.

I, I dunno if you know this, but, it's kind of fascinating scientifically, if you were to break open a chrysalis and try to help a butterfly emerge, they would die. And [00:11:00] the reason for that is their strengthened through the struggle outta the chrysalis. And they're, they need that struggle to strengthen their wings.

And so you've got this struggle that, again, this binding up this incarceration, you have limitations and it could. Actually strangle the life out of you. But for you, it incubates life. It puts you in a different place where you wanna start moving forward. And that is really interesting. And again, if you're listening, I always say, listeners, you're listening for a reason.

You know, maybe you're in a place of your life, you know, you might not be in prison, but maybe you're in a place of feeling a little bit bound up and imprisoned in your life, and you're wondering how you can move forward. I'd love for you to understand this story and ask yourself, what does it mean to you?

Because most of us are not gonna find ourselves in literal prison, but many of us find ourselves in lots of different other kinds of prisons that want to control us, want to shape us, want to crush us. Actually within that, sometimes we can find destiny. And clearly you [00:12:00] have found a sense of destiny in this journey.

So, so you got this idea, now you're gonna get out. know, do you get paroled early? Do you have to serve your whole time? Like how does that work for you?

So the Canadian prison system, it's like if you?

don't mess up in prison, you can get out after. A third of your sentence. And so I knew that I was going there for a reason. I wasn't going to, I knew that I needed time away from like the booze and all that stuff. I knew I needed that kind of sabbatical rehab.

but I thought of this as like an investment. Like I didn't see it as prison. I, I kind of reframed the entire thing. Like I knew that I, you know, justice for wrongdoing, but in order to actually heal and grow, I had to reframe it as something different. And so that was not just an investment in my education.

So my lawyers were like. 40 something thousand dollars. I paid most of it. My parents helped me out with the last little bit, paid them back every penny because, you know, that's worth. I, so I saw it as my education. So I was gonna read as many books as I could, which I did business books.

I didn't know I was gonna be reading popcorn books, but, you know, once I figured out I was going to [00:13:00] be doing popcorn, I started to read about, that, building a, a snack company. I saw it as rehab rehabs can be like $30,000 a month. So it's like if I'm paying 50 grand for a whole year, that's great.

And, um, Yeah, so I, I reframed it totally as that. So that's kind of how the whole, the whole mindset shift started. What, where was I going with this? do you remember 

Yeah, I do remember you were gonna explain how you get, as you get out, how does this, how does this work for you? And by the way, I love the way your mind works. 'cause, and this is, the secret to probably to your success. You obviously are in a thousand places at once, trying to figure out where you want to go.

I love it. 

Yeah. 

Okay. And, uh, your energy and obviously, and your passion is infectious. And I can't imagine that that hasn't been critical in building your business because you obviously are a very passionate, articulate, and passionate woman who understands exactly who you wanna be today and where you wanna go.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. No, and I knew that this was gonna be a part of my life regardless. and my parents always, like, I knew [00:14:00] that I was very lucky in the sense that I had great parents. but they deserved better. you know, it wasn't the first time there had been an incident with drugs and alcohol.

This was kind of like the thing that like, I really needed to be like, okay, stop fucking around. Like, do something really good with this. My dad just said, Emily. You know, this happens So.

we can do something really good with it. That's funny. He was like, you know, I'm gonna be public with it. I'm, I don't really care.

Like I'd rather be able to help other people take the heat, whatever. But at least like I'm being myself and I'm not lying about it. 'cause no one's gonna have any dirt on me 'cause I'm gonna out myself. Um, and that's the accountability part that I think is so crucial to building any kind of business or any kind of project because people have to know that you can be trusted. 

Absolutely. So, so you get out, do, you start your business right away. is there a lag time, like, or are you already starting the business somehow in jail? Like.

Yeah. so my current business partner, we would talk on the phone, we would sketch logo designs back and forth in snail mail. And I would like, um, I would call my mom on the phone and uh, ask her to look up like business [00:15:00] books or on certain things. And then I would work with a Kitchener library 'cause they have a really Good. library program with the prison.

And, and check out those books. And so I began to kind of make it like a tailored list of like academic and stuff, so I could kind of learn in there. I read 82 books. I also wrote letters to all the, authors. So I began to build this network of people that I wanted to associate with and wanted to know and, and and everyone opens a letter if it's coming from a prison.

Yes.

It's like a secret marketing hack. So I met Dave Chilton. You know, I wrote an article called The Relatively Wealthy Inmate, and it was all about how I managed my $7 a day budget. 

Oh my gosh. 

and I worked with the, the volunteers that came into the process. So started to build this network and then I also. We'd write articles and my now business partner had this like just like little landing page and he'd upload the articles that I'd write and then mail them out to him.

And then we'd have like a little tab for like email updates. So it's like, put in your email. So [00:16:00] we start to grow this email list left on the 

my gosh. That is phenomenal. 

Yeah. 

So you're doing all this while you're still incarcerated. Now you get 

out. Um, is the transition for you getting out? Is it easy? Is it harder than you anticipated? I mean, how does it feel when you, you're freedom's been taken away from you, now you're getting it back.

How does that feel?

So I wouldn't really call it freedom. Being on parole, you have a lot of restrictions. If anything, you have even more, they want you to jump through so many hoops. They tried to catch you in lies. They tried to honestly like set you up. There was a lot of inappropriate conduct that was done by my parole officer. That you can't even do anything about. in the beginning we had a very, very tense relationship. She didn't even want me to hire. So when I applied for my parole, I said, Okay.

I'm gonna, this is part of my plan. I wanna hire people that have also been incarcerated. And then she tried to stop all of it and the parole board of Canada was like, no, this is allowed this.

So, so we came to an agreement that I could hire people that had a record, but this just weren't on parole. 'cause [00:17:00] there's like this clause called non association, which is like. I mean, I get it, but not really. So she tried to stop it and was battling with her and um, you know, and I worked at the gym. So gyms are all also synonymous with fresh starts, second chances.

I was always athletic, like going to the gym a lot in prison was and working out was honestly like my soul is. 'cause I have to put my energy somewhere, like when I don't put it somewhere good, like it goes in somewhere bad. 

Uh, yeah. you know what? Energy is sort of like that. If you don't direct it in the right way, it'll, lead you in lots of different ways. 

I, I can 

of partying

in my own life. 

yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's like I.

can go to 10 house parties in night, or I can go to 10 meetings in the day. Right. Like, what are we gonna do? 

Got you gotta make the right choices with that energy. So where, when does the, so the company's already in its infancy, you've got a partner, you're trying to figure this out. How long after you get outta jail does this thing start to get some legs?

after we found our manufacturing partner, it was [00:18:00] actually during COVID. It was during COVID, 

which is interesting, you know, because I was an essential business. Food was an essential business, and so I'd always have popcorn in my car all the time. I could go around, make deliveries.

And I actually, the business grew a lot during COVID because everyone thought they were in prison. So when I would deliver this popcorn, I was like, listen, I've actually been in prison and this is what you can do. You have to reframe it as as freedom. It's like you're on recess, like, relax, you know? So I was able to build this really good customer race and actually help a lot of people that were really struggling during that time.

so that's when we grew. We had, uh, we focused our product line on caramel. So we switched from savory to caramel. We got a manufacturing partner, which extended our shelf life so we could be on more retailers across the country. And then the natural organic growth that came from the COVID deliveries. 

Uh, now that is fascinating to me because it's like this theme. So you went to prison, you come out, COVID is this, as you said, this prison that's happening to everybody, [00:19:00] particularly in our area in Canada. And now it's like this thread of connection, in these moments, which is very, very fascinating.

Emily. It really is. 

Wow. So, so you start the business, it's starting to get some traction. You're, you find a, a partner who can give you extended shelf life. are you selling only in Canada?

At the time, Yeah. we started in, uh, my first city was Hamilton. My first province was Ontario. Then we just started, getting distribution for out west two years ago. So that was 'cause our distributor from Ontario, they're called the Neal Brothers, 

like they make the checks. But they also had a distribution company, so they chose on, 'cause Peter Neil, one of the brothers, went through a lot of mental health struggles, , suffered a lot.

And so he really resonated with my story and was like, I really wanna help you build this. Calls me at 7:00 AM one morning I'm driving because he is like all over the place. He is very energetic. He's great, great friend To this day has been awesome and it's all connecting through the humanity, right?

Like the food was, popcorn was almost secondary. I mean, it has to be good popcorn. You gotta have a good product, [00:20:00] but 

Yeah. No, and well, and I think a lot of business, frankly, the product is ancillary to the relationships and the human connection, which is a big part of business, obviously. So, so now you, you've got this business that starts to rock and roll from the very beginning. Are you, are you intentionally building this business cause you want to hire people who have records, who are gonna struggle to get a job.

Is that an intention From the very beginning.

From the very, very beginning, but as we found our co-packer, we realized that. we weren't gonna be in the manufacturing world. We wanted to be in the brand building world. And so I had to kind of change the role of people from baking popcorn in our little commercial kitchen now to like having marketing roles or doing store demos and stuff.

But because of the structure of our organization, we're never gonna own our own factory and like be this big thing with like a million people from prison it is just impossible, especially in the CPG world. You, you grow very. Slowly, Right.

when it comes to like that. So I was like, okay, so if I can hire people to come and do store demos that that's another thing that they do.

But then I was like, I really want to do more. And so this [00:21:00] year I actually just launched the Comeback Catalyst program, which is an entrepreneurship program for people coming out of prison and so they can learn how to launch their own company. Just Literally launched in January. 

That's amazing. So tell me about, tell me a little bit of that. So where's that functioning and how does it function? 

Yeah, so it's online to start, like the first cohort had 25 students, and everyone in the program had been incarcerated at or had a criminal record. And so I wanted to be able to teach people what I did with the popcorn using my skills. And I didn't comfort, like I didn't have a lot of money, but like I was able to work with the community in all the ways that I.

Connected that really helped build the business. And I bootstrapped it for the first, like four to five years. So you can, you know, kind of create an income for yourself because employment is gonna be hard to get. 

but it doesn't mean that you can't create a life for yourself.

And so yeah, so that's something that is really growing. The impact that we have, 

That's amazing. So you brought 25 people, 25 students into the first, cohort. 

So do they pay? 

great. [00:22:00] Wow, great. We got a grant from North Pine Foundation, and so the founders, they have a specific arm for our formerly incarcerated persons, and so that combined with like sponsors. So next, next year, we wanna apply to get startup. Stipends for each person. 'cause you know, if someone can have like a thousand bucks just to start, that could mean everything for someone kind of coming outta prison.

'cause like you make $7 a day in there, right? So 

it's, still a risk. And we don't want people to, obviously we want people to have work, but we don't want 

right. 

encourage people to like, give up everything you have to start your business. right. 

Correct. 

not wise. 

No. So there's a prudency there, but you know, I want to, I wanna go back to something you said earlier, 'cause I really think it is a fascinating part of the story. So you find yourself in a position where you, could have chosen never to trust another fucking human ever in your life.

Okay. And to say That's it. I, I am going it alone. Fuck everybody else. Everyone's untrustworthy. And you could have adopted that. And a lot of people do when they get, when we get hurt. And our trust is betrayed, is so [00:23:00] easy react in a way that causes us to shut down and never want to trust again.

But yet you find this ability, this. Amazing ability to say, I'm not gonna let that thing control my ability to trust other people. Into the future. 'cause that's not healthy. That is really, really powerful. Because that's a really hard thing to do because I mean, we have that old adage, right?

You know, once bitten, twice shy, 

uh, there's, we have this adage. So, so now you're in a place where you're, you're trusting, you know, you got business partners, you're trusting some people in your business giving them opportunities. So I'm interested to know. Of the people that you've trusted in your business, has anybody along the way betrayed that trust again, or have they primarily fulfilled the trust and held it sacred that you've given them?

Everyone's been awesome. I can say every single employee that we've had has been great. They've had their own personal issues, but nothing has been done to [00:24:00] me. You know, and I'm very understanding of the barriers that people face coming out of prison. So if you know, people can't make it to work because they can.

Pay for the bus fair or some, something like that. It's or if someone, you know, kind of has a relapse, like I get that right? So obviously you still wanna like run a robust organization, but you also have that lived experience so you know how hard it can be sometimes even just to get out the door, right?

, And having that kind of like family relationship, that trust where they can trust you actually creates more, more loyalty and makes people feel safe. 

Well, again, it's, it's such a really powerful story and, and you know, my podcast is all about this idea of Being our unique selves and making unique contribution. I mean, unmodified. And clearly you're an unmodified individual and you're running a very unmodified business model and trying to figure it out.

The entrepreneurship program, all these things that you're diving into are so, so powerful. So, people wanna find your product, they find it online, they find it in a store. how do they find it?

Um, so if you go to comeback [00:25:00] snacks.com, we have a store locator on there, click shop, and it can, you can find any store and then you can also order it right online. 

Okay, so I can order from you. We can find it in a store. Um, and I will attest f full disclosure, like it is, insanely good. and I listen, I probably, now I just have my blood work done and I have an unusually, ridiculously high cholesterol, probably because of you, Emily. 

Oh. 

It might be from you.

No, I'm not. It's not from you. It's from other things. Lots of other things, but the popcorn is amazing. So tell me now also, so that's the business side. They can, they can support the business by buying product, which is a great way for them to support this initiative and what you're trying to do.

Now, let's talk about the entrepreneurship program. So are there ways that people could potentially partner with you or participate with you at all in that? What does that look 

Yeah. We're always looking for guest speakers for the program's mentors, so each. Student is paired with a mentor. So anyone [00:26:00] that, basically we have like?

a whole pool of mentors. So people that are opening up certain businesses, we try to match them with, um, you know, someone that's worked in their field.

Like we had this one guy, he, um, started a roofing business and we had a roofing mentor. So he's like helping him out with all these things that sometimes the internet can be a really confusing place as we know, like so much information you're getting like different things left, right, and center.

Whereas you have a mentor that can actually. Work with that person who's been, been through it and like, you know, can help 'em cut the bullshit and, you know, do all that stuff. Um, so Yeah.

always looking for mentors. Always looking for, community organizations to partner with, even employers, you know, 'cause a lot of the time these people are coming out of prison and, you know, they wanna start their business, but they also need work.

So there's like a 

Yeah. 

businesses out there that would consider hiring someone that, you know, maybe made a mistake but is really smart. 

Yeah. You know, I, I totally agree and I, I have my own family history. Uh, we've had, several exposures to this world that we're talking about, and so I can attest firsthand that their redemption is [00:27:00] possible, that things can change. I actually think that, the same. Crafty wildly craftiness that sometimes gets us in trouble is the same wildly craftiness that will actually help us succeed in business.

Again, it's about applying that energy to the right thing, but the skills, you know, I train salespeople for a living. I do a lot of other things, but, you know, salespeople can use their power for evil or for good. 

Let's put it that way. It's the same, it's the same power. So I love the idea and you know, I do want to talk to you offline about the possibility of, I would love to 

figure out how I could 

potentially, 

you can be a mentor. 

yeah, I would love to know how I could be helpful.

And I do, you know, I've been doing training of leaders and salespeople for 30 years and you know, maybe there's a way that I could potentially contribute somehow to what you're doing because. I think it's so powerful and it speaks to that issue of redemption, which is a word we don't often use. It's, a word we, we often don't use in our culture society, [00:28:00] but the idea that people can have a second chance and can have a redemption in their story.

It's so powerful. Unfortunately though, we're not great at it because, you know, as a society, as people, we tend to hold grudges. We, we tend to make judgements. we have this, this hindsight bias and we paint people with the brush and then we write them off and it's, a sense that's criminal, that's terrible.

And you're actually recognizing that that's not a good way to do it. We can, we can have redemption, we can change things. We can change what this all looks like and reintegration and getting people back into healthy environments where work. 'cause I mean, if you think about it, the cycle's bad. I get outta jail.

Nobody wants me. I can't get a job. I imagine I'm probably falling back into crime most times. Not because I want to, but because I run out of options so quickly. I 

imagine in this 

Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Yeah.

And then you're just, you give up hope, right? And, but like there's so [00:29:00] many organizations out there and the US is actually leading the way that once you give people like. that chance, it's like they will hold onto that, you know, depending they have, like everything else, you'll also have to have a housing in place.

You need to have like, you know, your basic needs met before you can like really thrive in a role obviously. Um, but Yeah. the JP Morgan, a financial institution hires the formerly incarcerated. So you're really starting to see even like, you know, these big archaic like organizations that, you know, typically are set in their ways really starting to, to change. 

you know, it's such, it's such a powerful story and I love where you're trying to take this. And so you, you are obviously a catalyst. You have great visions. You have this, little notebook that you 

got from a chaplain 

and Yeah. 

show and tell box that isn't 

And what do you call that notebook again?

What's it 

called? 

thoughts. 

 Pop thoughts. I love it. Pop thoughts now. let me ask you, is there. Something else in that pop thought book that hasn't made its way, hasn't been birthed yet into the real world, [00:30:00] but it's in the book, uh, that Emily has in her mind and heart to do that. You, and you don't have to by the way.

No pressure. Well, there's a lot of pressure actually. Is there and no pressure. Is there anything else in that book that you might wanna let myself and my listeners know that they should be looking for? 'cause you got other 

ideas I 

imagine. 

Um, I wanna start like a fund for the formerly incarcerated to launch their businesses. 'cause also, um, a lot of the time there's these grant programs and once you get to like the loan, like BDC or something, or like, there's another one called they will not administer grants to someone that has a criminal record.

So like even these entrepreneurs like I got approached by the BDC to apply for a loan and they didn't even know their own policy. 

So I'm just like, oh my God. So that's what I wanna do. I wanna have my own kind of. System for supporting the formerly incarcerated 

and 

Okay, so you want, you've got this incubation idea. So you get this accelerator, well accelerator, like an incubator where you're incubating now ideas, but where you want that to go is you want [00:31:00] to be able to find people who would be willing to bring some investment in creative ways that can, Begin to invest in this group of people for the benefit of their future and the future that we can create together. But that's a barrier in of itself. So again, if you're listening and you know, maybe finance and, uh, this understanding is your mad skill. It's not my mad skill, but maybe it's your mad skill and maybe you go, man, I think there's ways we could do this.

You need to hunt Emily down ' opportunity in 

this. 

need to be 

hunted. I'm very 

no. no. You don't have to hunt her down. Okay. She's easily, easily found. Right. 

What. There, just like there she is again. There she is. So if the people wanted to message you directly or email you directly about the incubator and about the entrepreneurship program, how do they find you 

specifically? 

Yeah.

Okay.

so my email is emily@comebacksnacks.com. 

Or 

Okay. 

go on Instagram, you can send me a direct message, E MZ O'Brien. 

There you go. So you can hook up there. Um, and I definitely am interested [00:32:00] in chatting further about, maybe there's something I could contribute because I love the idea. And I will tell you that, you know, again, we, I came from, uh, fair Lake. Difficult background where my family grew up in Ontario housing and government housing.

Uh, my mother actually put my brother when he was 18 years old, my mother had my brother put in jail, because we were a rather violent lot. And, um, we all flirted with the police, uh, in, in several ways. My, my brother actually once was arrested and his, um, the way they. Made him pay back his debt instead of putting him in jail.

They made him wash police cars 

Okay. 

in Kitchener Waterloo. And the 

other brother, my, 

business. Now, you know. 

yeah, exactly. Exactly. And, and he turned out to be a great man. And my, and it's interesting because my brother, who, my mom put in jail because he had put his fists through every door in our house. and left him in there for a little bit and then he eventually got out.

On my mother's deathbed. When my mother passed away in [00:33:00] 2012, and I think this is the power of sometimes of the impact when you come to grips with your behavior and it hits you in the face and you have an opportunity for redemption. And on my mom's death bed, my mom said to my brother, Terry, he said, Terry, I wanna apologize to you for something.

And he said, what's that? And she said, I'm sorry I put you in jail. He actually said to her, it was such a powerful moment, he said, mom, that changed my life. 

Yeah. 

That event changed my life. It, it caused me to ask myself who I was gonna be. It was a moment of opportunity. And his life is fundamentally different now, but it wouldn't have been, in fact, I don't even know if he'd be here still based on the trajectory of his life.

So I think sometimes these moments of incarceration, whether it's a metaphor in our life or whether it's a physical incarceration, they present opportunity if we choose to find opportunity 

in them. Clearly you [00:34:00] have found opportunity. Clearly you're finding other people who are, who are asking themself, how do I use this and change the trajectory of my life?

Because at the end of the day, you know, it, there's no difference between myself or anybody who's in jail. The only difference is, frankly, some days I'm a little bit more crafty about not getting caught. 

Yeah, 

you know, what we're we, we all have our stuff in our life that we have to deal with. 

Absolutely. 

So it's a, it's a powerful story.

So I'm gonna give you the last word here. So if you're gonna challenge, I'm gonna give you two people groups to challenge. So one, somebody who's totally fucked up in their life and is enduring the punishment of it and 

wants to 

find redemption. What would you say to them? what would the hopeful message that you would give to them?

Good things take time. 

That's a 

Mm-hmm. 

Forgiveness isn't granted. Um, 

Yeah. 

know, sometimes we might not even get it, but that doesn't mean that you have to work hard to rectify your own life and things that you've done. 

Wow. That's very, very wise. [00:35:00] Now, what would you like to say to people who could potentially enable someone who has been incarcerated to find a new future by giving them a second chance? 

you say to 

them? 

Listen, listen to their stories, it's not about the crime. Like, listen to their stories and what they went through before and you'll find the human there. 

Wow. Very powerful wisdom. I love it. So listen, again, if you listened in, you listen for a reason. I appreciate it. Emily. Thanks for your time again. Do me a favor as you contemplate this conversation, listeners, and depending on what you wanna do with it, DM me or uh, email me at tim@uncommodified.com and let myself and maybe Emily know what you're doing with this conversation and how you are.

Moving in a way that could be transformative for you and others, how you're breaking free from the prisons that you might be in and how you are actually helping other people find a new 

future. That's the power of this story. I love it,