SEEING DIFFERENTLY: UNCORKED with ANDY WRIGHT and CLAIRE DONNISON

What if the problem isn’t what you’re looking at—but the lens you’re looking through? 

What if the frustration, limitation, or even the breakthrough in your life has less to do with your circumstances and everything to do with your perspective? That’s the raw and real truth that Tim Windsor and his wife, Pam, UNCORKED around their dining table with two remarkable creatives - Andy Wright and Claire Donnison.

This wasn’t a polished studio session. Just one iPhone, one angle, one table, and four people daring to see differently. They explored art, photography, creativity, culture, neurodivergence, and the surprising ways perspective shifts can flip your life on its head. You’ll hear Andy’s journey from IT burnout to becoming a global photographer, Claire’s story of transforming shyness into a superpower of communication, and Pam’s reflections on how changing your lens changes how you see people on the margins of society.

Here’s what you’ll take away if you lean in: how to reframe the ordinary so it becomes extraordinary, why gratitude for the small things resets the soul, how humour and curiosity disarm cynicism, and why risk—stepping into a new lens, a new space, or even a stranger’s story—is the only way to grow. 

If you’ve ever felt stuck in one frame, this conversation will dare you to tilt your head, shift the light, and see the world—and yourself—through a different lens.

Tim Windsor
the UNCOMMODiFiED Podcast – Host & Guide
tim@uncommodified.com
https://uncommodified.com/
  
PRODUCERS: Alyne Gagne & Kris MacQueen 
MUSIC BY: https://themacqueens.ca/

Chapters

• 0:00 Tempo: 120.0

Transcript

PLEASE NOTE: UNCOMMODiFiED Podcast episode transcriptions are raw text files and have not been proofed or edited. They are what they are … Happy Reading.

So what if the problem isn't what you're seeing but the lens you're seeing it through? What if your frustrations, your limitations, even your breakthroughs have more to do with your perspective than your circumstances? What if it's not just about shifting lenses? What if it's a brand new one if you're watching on the YouTube channel?

How you doing there? Guys, you can already see that we're breaking some convention in our usual format. No studio, no remote podcast tech. Just my wife, Pam, joining us for the first time. That's gonna be fun. Our two amazing guests, so I'll introduce in a second and me gathered around our dining table after sharing a meal together.

It's a single iPhone recording tonight. That's it. One camera, one lens, one angle, one shared space, raw, real, and personal. And the weight we're recording. This is actually part of the story because sometimes changing how you see starts with changing, where you sit around a table. And how you record the moment you're experiencing.

In this conversation, we're gonna delve into the literal and metaphoric lenses that shape our [00:01:00] perspective on the world around us. We we're gonna explore art, photography, culture, creativity, and neurodivergence. We're gonna talk about learning differently, living curiously, and helping others see with new eyes because life expands when your perspective does.

Even if you're a person who is long to see things different, if that's the kind of person you are, you sometimes need help seeing from a different angle. And that's exactly what this conversation is gonna be about tonight. It's about shifting focus forever, hopefully. So pull up a chair and join us at this table.

That's your invitation. Hey my friends. Welcome back to the Income Modified podcast. I'm Tim WinDor, and today my guests on the show are my amazing wife, Pam. Pam, welcome to the show. Thanks, Tim. First time here. Gonna glad to be here. It could be, could be the start of something new, Pam. Never know. Oh my goodness.

We can co-host. Oh no, no thanks. Okay. We'll see. And our newfound friends, Andy Wright and Claire Don. And Andy and Claire, welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank you. Uh, it's been an absolute pleasure. So we have just shared a beautiful meal around our table. It was a great time. We've had some times chatting and we just wanted to do something [00:02:00] very different in the show.

So a bit about Andy and Claire. Andy is a commercial photographer, creative director. And an entrepreneur who believes in making a difference in the lives of people he touches. He believes, and this is from, this is kind of interesting. He believes that life is too short to be boring, which I have learned, and way too short to look at boring photos.

So no boring photos from Mandy. Now Claire is the conscious entrepreneur, a digital artist, a creative thinker. A customer care geek self-described. That'll be interesting. She loves curiosity, creativity, and collaboration with apparently a doll up of fun on top. Definitely. Which I like a doll up of. Of fun.

No, doll. Doll. Up of fun. Sounds good. We had a doll up of whipped cream on her creek tonight, so perfect. Now how did I meet Andy and Claire? So Andy and Claire, we met originally at a local fuckup night in Kitcher, waloo, and a couple of years ago. And the moment that I engaged with them for the first time, I realized these are the kind of people that I would like to hang out with, people that I have not hung out.

A lot in my life with, but what a great opportunity [00:03:00] when we met each other. You've been part of some events that I did locally. You've been so encouraging and I said this to you at dinner. I'll say it again. You guys are some of the most wonderfully warm and graciously accepting people that we've met, and that is such a privilege and it's a gift that you give to us, you give to other people, and that's part of what I wanna explore in this conversation.

What does it mean to live. Different perspective in generous ways for ourself and others. We're gonna talk about life. Well, I'm sure we'll talk about business. We're gonna talk about all these things. But of course, any great conversation for me, particularly an uncorked conversation, it gets kicked off with a drink.

And Andy and Claire were gracious enough, I'm gonna bring these balls from out, from under my table for the presentation. This is really good. So you guys bought a couple of bottles of wine. Explain those bottles of wine 'cause they're actually have a story to 'em and I love it. Well, I, I will not just go into a store and buy a bottle of wine.

I will spend half an hour in there looking through all the labels, finding something that just pulls me visually first. Um, and then [00:04:00] looking for a, a time with the name to, to whatever it is that we're going to an event or a dinner or whatever. There's an importance there and there's a significance there.

And it's, um, it's a, a personal touch. Mm-hmm. It's not just a. A generic wine for the occasion. This is a wine that's been bought for a reason. Hmm., And so I picked up tonight, this Robert Shiraz called the Formula, uh, the Formula because I think all of us as entrepreneurs are forever. Trying to find, searching for, we are we, whoever searching for the formula, the formula, it's their most one to, to do the things that, that we wanna do and to, to kind of just, just make the successes that we wanna make.

And then the other one I found was called Collab and Bloom. Collab and bloom. That's great because we found for ourselves and for many of the people in our circles and most of the business work that I do, if you collab with the right people. You flourish and you bloom, and you just kind of do incredible things.

So these two, [00:05:00] two wines are. That is awesome. That's an awesome. All right, so listen, choose whichever wine you wanna open, and I'm gonna say, first of all, for anybody who's on my show next time, you have a massive gauntlet to have to try to, you have to find now the wine that goes with the conversation. Now, I do wanna apologize to advance listeners.

Couple things. One, we're recording this rough and ready. So one camera, iPhone, an iPhone on the table recording this. So there's gonna be some clunks and bumps along the way. Don't. Don't freak out. It's okay. And particularly an apology to my producers. We'll have to wrestle this back from the abyss, but they will do that 'cause that's what they're great at.

So I'll tell you what I'm gonna go, do you guys want a glass? Please do. If not, you don't want anything right now. It's up to you. Which one? I would. Okay. What would you like? I love the collab bloom. Collab Bloom. Bloom. Okay. Awesome.

Cheers to you guys. Cheers. Cheers. Awesome. Thanks very much for coming. Thanks for having us. All right, let's kick this off. So here's how I wanna start the conversation.

So I've got two questions for you guys that we wanna start with, and then we'll just sort of see where we go. [00:06:00] So one is I want to talk to you about. This idea of different lenses, different perspectives that you bring to the work that you do, obviously as artists and photographers that you bring to your work, but you bring to life and community.

So you know, what does having a different lens or helping people have a different lens, what do you think that does for them and for you and the other? Piece of this is, you know, you talk about this idea of being, you know, conscious entrepreneurs, being entrepreneurs that have a certain consciousness about how you wanna live and operate.

That is very fascinating. But let's start with the, the issue of this issue of perspective and lens and how this connects to photography, but how it connects to your larger worldview and what you guys are about. That's where I'd like to love to start. Okay. Well, for me, I've been a photographer for nearly 20 years now.

But this was never my intended path or my intended destination. I was an IT guy, forever from when I left school back in the uk. Kind of worked in [00:07:00] that for a long, long time, 24, 25 years. And photography wasn't even something I did as a, you know, as a pastime. It was just, just never on my radar.

And I fell into it. I really did fall into it. I was actually working on. The Xbox 360 project with, peer group in town here. So I was part of the team that was supporting the, the manufacturing lines in China. So peer group wrote the quality control software that was used to test the lines. So you start with the motherboards, build everything through, to finish Xbox, which then goes to the store and we were in there to kind of help that process and, and see how that went.

And I. I thought I was doing the, the best it job I could ever do was 'cause you kind of the epitome, I know the top of my, top of the tree for me is my career. It's never gonna get better than that. It turned out to be three years of possibly the most stressful, insane environment I've ever been in.

I used to go to China for two weeks, come back [00:08:00] for two weeks, go to try live for two weeks, come back for two weeks. And I did that for about two and a half years, which was great 'cause it makes you unafraid of long distance travel. 'cause it's easy. If you're doing a 24 hour trip every two weeks, it's kind of like, you know, it becomes something You get very, very simple.

But I was just, just doing that and the. There was no time off until the day before we flew home. What would happen is we'd all go out as a group to, a Shivas Royal Bar. So they'd just literally sell bottles of Shivas and you just have empty glasses and you'd just like, just keep filling the glasses and you just drink and raid the pressure and the stress of the job, and it's insane.

And then that final day before we flew home. Everyone just kind of stayed away from each other and you just had your own space. And a friend of mine had bought me a little tiny point shoot camera as a, as a birthday gift, and I started taking it out. I was like, well, I'm somewhere I've never been before.

I'm just gonna not think about the project for a few hours. So all I was doing was wandering around. Taking random pictures of things, not thinking about the project. [00:09:00] For no other reason. It was just, you know, just clear my head. And then I came back. I went on Blurb as a, used to be an online site where you can make books.

I think they're still out there. You can probably still do things on there. So I kind of put all these pictures into a book. Printed it as a, yeah, I did this. And I try it to people as just my, my, you know, my photo album of my time in China. And people would look and sort of say, oh, so you are a photographer.

But no, I'm an IT guy. No, no, no. You're a photographer. This is, no, I'm not. I'm an IT guy. No, no, no, no, no. Every single time, every person that saw this book would look, would have the same reaction. I was like, it's not who I am. And then a, a lady that I knew in networking circles at the time, she was very much kind of like a human LinkedIn.

This is back in 2006, 2007. And she said, oh, I, I know a guy you need to meet. So she introduced me to somebody that was based here who had come from England and he was a wedding photographer. And we kind of went and met him and showed him his little book and he's looking through himself. [00:10:00] Oh, okay. And he was like curious and he didn't sort of say a lot, but he was sort of like, let's see what you did here.

And then he said, do you wanna come out and try your hand to shoot in a wedding with me? And I'm kind of like. No, I'm an IT guy. I'm an IT guy, and he said, he said, I think you might have a good time doing this. I said, I said, okay. So then he spoke to head of bride and groom that weekend. He spoke to them.

Basically all they were gonna get was extra because obviously no, he was there to, to do the work. And he, and he said, yeah, okay. So he gave me, he handed me this. $10,000, extremely heavy camera. Gave me about five, 10 minutes. Very basic instruction. Said kind of do this, do this and you'll be all right.

And then the rest of it work out on your own, but like, you know, you'll be fine. And so like absolutely terrified. I hadn't been to a wedding in this country ever, and the only wedding I'd been to previously to that as my own from a few years before back in England. Not to me. Not to you. Another part of the story, [00:11:00] so spoiler alert, ran along to the day he handed me and I was just ran around like a, like a, like a mad person for a day.

Just kind of shooting tons of things, absolutely exhausted. Just kind totally worn out. Just like, you know, I, no idea what the hell did I just do. He took everything away from that and then thought, okay, well that was interesting as an experience, it took me a couple of days to get over it. 'cause you know, it was really.

Strenuous 'cause it was a very heavy camera and just the adrenaline kind of light on overdrive. And then about a week or two later, he calls me and says, look, he says, I want you to come over. I said, okay. And I went over and saw him and he sat down and he was one of these first, 'cause this was when digital really just kind of just taken a hold.

So he was kind of very entrepreneurial in his approach to photography that he would give people all of their jpeg as well as, so you get a finished album with two or 300 pictures, all edited, telling the story of the day, but you'd also get a second disc with like, you know, up to a thousand images, all JPEGs, just like [00:12:00] this is everything that's been shot across the whole day.

So that makes you stick. Which is like young, it was just his thing. But then he's sitting down, he said, okay, so I've had the bride and groom over. They've like, you know, they've loved their pictures, they've taken this, they've got the discs, everything. They're really, really happy. I said, okay. He said, just so you know, a third of the pictures were yours.

Hmm. And I was like, oh, okay. And, and he's like, he looked at me, he lean across the table. He grabbed my hand and he went, you are in the wrong fucking job. And at that point, he, like, he said, I, he said, I don't have to teach you what to look for. Wow. He says, you have the eye to take the picture. He says, I can teach you how to work you by around the camera.

He says, but I'm telling you, you've got the eye. To do what you need to do. That's, that's amazing. Yeah. And then that was a launching point for me. To kind of go down this completely final, like, you know, a new lens, a new way of looking at life and then going through a different way. And all the way [00:13:00] along with that is my journey.

I'm not trained. I'm not like, you know, I haven't gone to school for, for this. I haven't got degrees in this. I literally winging it and I'm just doing it on the fly. That's incredible. And I've learned as I've gone along to do what I do. And I've. Always brought a very unique viewpoint through that approach.

Yeah. You know, I'm not afraid to try anything 'cause I dunno if I can't do it. I haven't tried, so I will try anything. Wow. And invariably, no. You know, that works. So. Wow. That's, that's who I'm, and that's, that's what I do. You know, it's so powerful. And what Andy, what's interesting to me is, I mean, we're talking about lenses and perspective.

So you're having this experience where you're going to China and you're having the same experience over and over again, and then all of a sudden you take up a camera and you look at that experience through a different lens. As somebody sees your interpretation of that experience through that lens, and they see you through a different lens, you see yourself as an IT guy.

Yeah. Their lens is they see you as a photographer. Yeah. And yet. You're not able to see that at the beginning, which is interesting because I think in life [00:14:00] and business, and you know, even in our relationships, you know, we have a certain lens that we look at ourselves with. Yes. And that we see ourselves in a certain way, in a certain, you know, I don't know a lot about photography, but we see ourselves in a certain light.

We see ourselves in a certain frame. Mm-hmm. The way we frame ourselves, and then somebody else comes along and oftentimes that's a, a partner, right? Yeah. Who comes along. Reframes the way we look at ourselves or their lens is different on us and it awakens something of that, US which this did, which is really an interesting part of the story and the journey that you are going on.

Yes. Yeah. Well it was, and especially 'cause as I was then, I was kind of, just approaching 40 and, kind of thinking to myself from a career viewpoint, like, you know, I've kind of hit everything I could ever hit. So I didn't know what was, what should be next for me. I didn't know where to go with that, what to do with that, to kind of go beyond there, you know?

So yeah, finding this entire new world being opened up to me, I [00:15:00] was, it was just a perfect thing at the perfect time. That's, that's perfect. And I'd never looked back on that. I like, you know, I loved that. I was just so happy to go. And then there was a couple of real difficult years of. Living in both camps at the same time.

Sure. So like, you know, full-time job and working every weekend shooting weddings and then working till half the night editing weddings and just kind of just going through that. Yeah. As a, as a process for a while, until it got to a point where, you know, pretty much this had to replace that. And that it cost me a lot.

And I, you know, it, did a lot to, to change everything about my life. But, where I am now. I'm very happy that plan where I am. That that's amazing. I mean, I love the journey. So clarify for yourself. So how does perspective and different lenses, how does that narrative play into your experience and story?

Right in there, Tim. Right in there. So I was quite shy growing up. I know and see Wow. Changing your perspective. And, in my college years, I went and studied hotel and restaurant management. And at the end of it we had to sort of [00:16:00] look for jobs. I couldn't find one, but Club Med came along, ah, and they came to Montreal, did like sort of a cattle call sort of thing.

And I started to work for them. I worked for them for four years and I got to work in a Lutheran in The Bahamas, Guadalupe Turks and Caicos, Greece. New Caledonia. Dating. The teams that we were working with were an international team. The locals obviously spoke different languages, and so the perspective of the communication part of life became really, really important for me because you had to sort of, you know, figure out how to communicate with people and that was quite, a revelation.

And so I think part of me changing my perspective was that I could get along with anybody. Mm-hmm. I could, I could cater my language to anybody. Fast forward, my career was, a lot of it's been in, customer service and call centers. So again, that communication component, and you'd have to often deliver bad news.

Part of it was working for a trust company, so it was all financial information. Wow. A lot of times you have to deliver bad [00:17:00] news. Mm. And it was learning how to do that without it sounding like bad news and tell people what you can do, not what you can't do. Mm. So changing that perspective of, you know, being, being.

Troubleshooting being, you know, service oriented, being, a thinker, thinking through things, being solution oriented. That changed for me a lot. 'cause I remember, again, being really, really shy and very, very introverted. Couldn't, you know, couldn't talk to anybody. So that became part of, really me learning how to communicate properly.

And in the call center part of it was coaching people. And so. You know, teaching them how to speak people properly, but also coaching them and, and having them do their performance appraisals and, and analysis of themselves and that kind of thing, and working people to do that for them. You end up sort of asking yourself these same sorts of questions and mm-hmm.

And, for me, communication and, language was so, so important and I'm quite funny. Yes, you are saying [00:18:00] thank you. Thank you. Yes, you are. Thank you. I'll just add to my, to my bill. Add it, add it, add it to your resume. That's my dad. Yeah. You haven't heard both of her. No, but, but her wittiness precedes her.

Thank you. Thank you very much. I'll, I'll pay you later. But that's part of it is as well it, disarms people in a way. If you can be funny, if you can find a, a common ground right, where you sort of build that rapport right away, we're all really, really different. But if you find that commonality.

Lots of folks like blue, lots of folks, right? Some one simple little thing that you have in common. Yeah. And the changing perspectives of how I viewed myself. Yeah. And then how others view me, and then how I continue to change perceptions. A lot of that came when I met Andy, and we have this Venn diagram of the two things that we're really good at.

Working really well together. That's powerful. Changing perspectives. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well it's interesting 'cause language and culture obviously is a tremendous lens that people look at the world from. I mean, I was born in North America.

I [00:19:00] was born in Canada. You guys come from other journeys. You know, Pam, you were born in England. You were born in England, you were born in England. So we have the English, we have Brit. Contingency here. And so language culture is a perspective and worldview that people have hard to see beyond it at times.

Mm-hmm. Probably easier to discern when we see that cultural lens than we see. We have lenses that we're wearing about lots of different things in our, our world about the way we we're, or we're all about the way we view other people, the way we view , other people groups, regardless of how we would define them.

Mm-hmm. We have a lens that we look at. People through. Yeah. And some of those lenses I suppose, are really helpful and some not so helpful. Mm-hmm. And the unconscious bias, correct. Right. Yeah. Which is that your framing of that event and that experience is the right framing, right?

Like I just, this is all very interesting to me and again. If you're listening in, you always know that I ask, these questions. We've gone along, you know, you're listening in for a reason. You could leave at any time. You could be gone already. I don't know [00:20:00] if you're still here though.

Hopefully you, you need to ask yourself a subset of questions also about this conversation. What are the lenses that you're looking at your world through? Where are they helpful? Where are they not? Where do they need to change? Where do you need to borrow the worldview or lens from somebody else?

I think this is relief. Really fascinating. So you guys come together in this journey. And, and Pam, you chip into the conversation anytime you want. And I, I'm, I will call on you later. Don't you worry. So you, yeah. You know, I'm, I'm gonna, I'm the reluctant, I'm the reluctant podcaster person. She's, she's a reluctant podcaster.

But we're gonna get her, into it. So you guys now come together in this journey. You've got, you know, you're coming at it from different worldviews. You come together with, now you've got a similar worldview. You've got this creative element, you've got this artistic element.

That you're bringing together. So when, when do you guys start to, to figure out how you're gonna bake all this together into the world that you have now? 'cause the world you have now is quite unique, it's complex, it's got all this variation. So I, I'm interested to know, how does that start to [00:21:00] emerge where you start to say, man, we've got something that if we mix this thing together, this is quite interesting.

It was the walk. So I lived in Toronto and he moved in with me or just before, just before he moved in with me. I would take this walk along chorus Key, so along the, the harbor front. Mm-hmm. Same path every day for two years. And I taking Andy to sort of show my neighborhood and you know, Andy and I talk, were talking and suddenly Andy's.

10 paces behind me where he should be. Right. There you go. He's falling behind. Worldview, worldview of view. He's falling behind. And I thought, what, what, what, what's he doing? So he stands up and he shows me, and he is taking a photo of a park bench, this park bench that I've walked by every day, for two years.

And I had never seen the park bench like that before. And Andy had caught, there was like a Fibonacci spiral in the, in the ironworks underneath the bench. So underneath had squatted down. So the literal looking at something differently, uhhuh, right? And so I [00:22:00] had just been studying NLP.

Neurolinguistic programming partly for work, but obviously had a huge influence on, on my personal life. And you're a master practitioner and I'm a master prac. So Andy, having the, the physical manifestation of changing your perspective Wow. Clicked with my, my love of the language of that, and it we sort of took it from there.

Hmm. Like that was really the, like, oh wow. Like you've, you've just a park bench. I've gone by that every day. Yeah. I also, now teach a photographic workshop, which is, aimed at anybody basically, who wants to be able to take better pictures.

So it's not a technical course going into depth of, of specific cameras or anything. Yeah, it's, it's, if you use a camera, if you use a cell phone, whatever you use. Come in and you can learn how to look at the world like a photographer. And one of the key things I use through this slideshow that I kind of have going on over the.

I know half an hour, I think it was an hour, is I used this bench three different times, but [00:23:00] in very, very different ways. Wow. Interesting. And you, and it's not until the end that spoilers, it's not until the end of the workshop where I kind of put these pictures side by side, that you actually realize that it's the same place.

But the, but the lesson of the workshop is like, you know, if you stop, if you turn 90 degrees, if you look at something from a different angle, if you duck down, if you just change the way you're viewing it. What changes? What can you see? What are you looking at differently if in the same space? You know, but just, just rearrange how you are interacting in that space and what can you see that's so powerful.

People see before that's, so that's, and it really is, it is a good mic drop moment because people really kind of go, oh, and it's like, yeah. Yeah, it's a whole, it's a whole what if it is? And you mentioned that earlier, right? Yeah. What if I do that? What if I look this way instead of that way? What, what if like being curious and, and and open to that is huge.

It's so powerful. And, and again, if you're listening and I think that it's such a really wonderful analogy. I mean, what. Thing in your life do you need to get down and look at differently? Mm-hmm. Now could be a, [00:24:00] could be a success you're having. It could be a failure experiencing, it could be a problem you're having.

It could be a relationship that is complicated, whatever it would be. It could be some kind of macro world thing that you're processing. How do you actually take a different perspective? Yes. Take a different photo of that. Experience and then look at it differently. It's a really, really great challenge.

And it starts with, to a degree, I think it starts with looking at yourself in the mirror. Mm-hmm. And being able to like, you know, take off the filters. Yeah. Take off the, you know, the disguises, take off anything there and actually look at yourself. And, and ask yourself, are you being true to who you actually are?

Are you being the most genuine version of you that you need to be? Yeah. Like, you know, are you lying? If you're lying to yourself, then you, you're, you're never gonna convince anybody else. You'll tell you the truth. Right? So, like, you know, if you start there and if you find yourself in a position and in a place where you can be fully authentic.

Yeah. And, be a conscious [00:25:00] entrepreneur. So I turned down work because. I don't like the ethics morals of people that absolutely ask me to work with 'em. Yeah. I don't just work for the dog. Yeah. I work because I like the cut of your gib. I like the way you think about the world. I like your perspective on the world.

I align with that, and I want to be a part of that. I want to help tell your message in that I'm not, I don't just kind of like, eh, no, not interested. I'd rather work with the right people, with the right view of the world and be that aligned. That's powerful. And listen, again, if you're listening in, I just wanna say I'll apologize in one level, but I won't, in another level.

Ultimately, this recording potentially, and the YouTube video might be a little clunky. That's fine. And part of the reason is we were gonna shoot this in different ways. We wanted to have Andy and Claire over. We could have done this in a traditional way, but it didn't feel right. Because we wanted to do this differently, we wanted to take a different perspective on a conversation around a table, which it's not easy to [00:26:00] facilitate. You know, we're not this massive production studio. So I would, yes, maybe, who knows? Maybe in the future if Andy has his way, we'll be better at this.

But I do wanna say that there's a method in the madness for me. So again, if you're listening in and it is a bit clunky, I, I, I apologize, but I don't, I actually, this is a really great conversation around the table and it is about changing perspectives, and I asked Pam just a couple of hours ago to be part of the conversation, which wasn't her happy jib, but.

I'm interested for, for Pam, for you, when you look at changing perspectives on things, and if, if I look particularly maybe at the work that you do in the community with the homeless population and the stuff that you're involved in. So what does changing Perspectives look like for you and why do you think it's important, a social issue?

Like, like homelessness? What does changing worldview or perspective do for you in this, this area? Well, I, I do think that it's such an easy [00:27:00] thing to just look at a problem like homelessness or poverty and kind of like pull back from it and disengage from people. Disengage from connection.

And so I think what happens when you work with people, the powerful element of. Of connecting with a person who's on a completely different level of financial means and social means, and family means than you is just hearing their story. And I just love story. This is what I love about the podcast and what I love about when we hear Claire and Andy.

Story and other people's story. It's listening to someone's story. When I hear someone's story about how they got to the place that they're at, it's like we're human. We're the same. We have the same needs for connection. To be loved, to be valued, to be seen, to be creative, to to live, to love, to feel, and I think I love.

Talking to [00:28:00] people. I do this thing where I give out, bags at the side of the road, like in my car. I keep them in the back of my car because I don't wanna give cash for many and Sunday reasons. And what's important to me when I, I make sure that I can actually stop. So if I'm at a light, I wanna stop because I don't just wanna give a person a bag or you know, it, it's like, I want to know your name.

Yeah, so it's like, hi, my name's Pam. I have this bag. There's a few things in here. What's your name? They tell me their name. I'm sorry that your situation must be really difficult, you know, that you have to be here. So for me, I, I find you have to risk. Mm-hmm. I think like what you're talking about is risk.

You had to risk. What your photo was gonna look like under the bench. You had to risk to make a decision that I am gonna move from it to now. Taking photographs, you had to risk to look in the mirror. Right. And I know Tim talks about that a lot, and it's the [00:29:00] same when you're with people. It changes your perspective.

You start to see that you just have a greater level of empathy and compassion for humans and for one another. And it just makes you feel so good inside to know that you've loved somebody. Mm. And they've felt it. They've actually received it and they felt it. Now, it doesn't always happen that way, you know, it's not always wonderful, but yeah.

Mm-hmm. It reminds me, we, years ago, we lived in Oakville and we were involved with the homeless community there, and so I. Created this, this project for work where I would hire homeless people to give tours of how they live to rich, wealthy people in Oakville.

So the rich, wealthy kids would come, I would pay homeless people to show them how they lived on the streets, to change their worldview of homelessness. And one of the people that we met early on in our experience there about prospective changing is, you know, we made an assumption about all the people that we met.

One of the people [00:30:00] we met early on was a guy named Frank. And Frank, in fact, wasn't homeless. He lived in the mansion on the Lakeshore, but it was the one he had left. He had also lost everything because he was a doctor who had a cocaine addiction who lost everything. His practice, his family, his wife, his kids.

The only thing he had left was his home. So on one level it looked like he lived in a mansion on another level, if he took his own perspective, he was poor. So it was a real altering perspective. So this idea about perspective and lens is really fascinating. So you guys have this creative piece of your life, you come together, you create, you know, you're a visual artist.

You're a visual artist, but you're artist different. So how does art, the process of making art and understanding art, how does it sort of tuck into this conversation about perspective and the lens and the, the, the shape you put on something or the place you take for vantage point, whether you're taking a photo, or whether you're taking that, enhancing it digitally.

How does this all play into the process of creativity for [00:31:00] you? Ooh. It's a great question. Yeah, great question, Tim. It is. Well done. It's very good question. Yeah, I, I, I really like the idea of putting play , into any kind of, , new thing that you're learning. Mm-hmm. Making it just. Taking the power away from it of being like an important thing, like playing around, like what does that do?

I have, the state of the art iPad and I got procreate. I don't know what the hell I'm doing. There's like 12 million brushes on it, and, and I don't know, but it's like, but I, I have it. It's like, well, what does that do? What does that one do? I like that. And so it's fun just to be creative , and be okay with it looking like crap.

'cause I can erase it, but, but playing and trying, trying different things. So looking at art that way as opposed to classical art, if you will. Right. Where the, you know, a technique, the painter is intentionally choosing the different paints and they're painting something that's, real, that's a landscape or whatnot.

Yeah. Where mine's abstract and so it can be anything. Mm-hmm. And then I love the result of that where. Again. That's what [00:32:00] I saw. But what do you see? Hmm. That's powerful. You right. I love the word. I mean, you used two words but you, you use the word procre, which is very interesting.

It's like the process. Well, that can't be played too well. It can't. It can. It can be play, can very different it very different podcast. It can't be played, so we won't go there. But it is the process of creation, right? So you're, you are giving life to something, an idea or a form or some, which is really interesting because that I'm not an artist.

At all. I've never done art, but I love art and I love looking at great art, and I love looking at all the different kinds of art, and part of it is the process of creation. How a person can see something in such a unique way and then bring it to life, give it birth. I mean, that is a really interesting idea to me.

I love, I love that concept. Yeah. Firstly, this is your art. Oh yeah. You are an art created artist. Yeah. Everybody is an artist. [00:33:00] In something interesting. If you are skilled accountant and you are an artist in spreadsheets, that's your art. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's what you're very good at. That's what you do. Okay.

I'm I I'm going with that. If you do all things that you no one else can build, that's your art. Yeah. And you're doing that. I love that. And you're very good at that. There's a, there's a great joke, but many years ago, back in the uk, a fantastic comedian called Tommy Cooper, he'd walk onto the stage sometimes and he'd be carrying a violin and a painting.

And he was sort of safe that I was, got really excited. I was up in the attic, he says, and I found these, he said, they're very old. He says, so I went to a, an auction house. And I said, well, he says. You've got a Stradivarius and you've got a Rembrandt. He said, that's amazing. I'm rich. He said, well, you're not.

He says, 'cause Stradivarius is a shit painter. A Rembrandt can't make any violin. So yeah, it's gone. Find what you're good at. Yeah. And you know where you have that natural Mac and that affinity. That is your art. That is your place [00:34:00] of creativity. That is where you are being. Your most artistically true self.

Mm-hmm. So we, we are all artists. I agree in very, very different ways. Some are people are great or writers. Some people are great writers. Some people are great cartoonists. Some people are great. Decorators. Some people are, whatever we are all, there's a cat and some and some are great cats. Great cats. Now not my cat's making appearance.

So, so, so like I refute you saying you're not an artist 'cause you are. Yes. You, you are finding your medium now and you are change your perspective. Okay. I have to change perspective. Alright. I, I'm up, been out it, I've changed my perspective. Yes. Okay. So this is, this is my art. This is my art. And then for me to answer in, in answer that question like I've found.

And, and again, it's just the way I see things. I've found there's been many times over the years where, , like I, I did, many years ago, I did a, a tour around North America with a, a British rock band called Meridian. And I was following them along, sort of said, I wanna do a book about tour. And they were not sure whether they wanted it to happen or not, but I [00:35:00] started showing them what I was doing and they was like, oh my God.

Yes. So it was long. Did the whole thing. It was good fun. And then when it was done, it was a, a limited edition run. It was a thousand copies. It sold all over the world. They're out there. I think I've autographed about half of them. But somebody was looking through this book and there's, all these different flight cases.

Obviously a band on tour is a band on tour. You got mm-hmm. Equipment everywhere. And one of them is effectively the wardrobe for the band. So there's different draws in it. Each, each guy's got a different, you know, spot for their clothes and everything else. And I just randomly took a picture of this thing in a, venue, and kind of put it in.

And I remember somebody coming up to me sort of saying like, you know, I've worked as a roadie with them. I've talked with them. There are hundreds and hundreds of times says, I have never looked at that flight case the way that you did in that picture. I'd never seen it. Wow, that's amazing like that before.

Wow. Amazing. He said It was astonishing to me to see that. Mm. And, and just opened their perspective a little bit and that's what I, I tend to have an affinity for. I will [00:36:00] find, take normal things and find a just a. Just little bit around there. Yeah.

Yeah. And just, take a slightly different look to it. Yeah. And, and that's where I find mindful. Wow, that's powerful. I mean, you got, you got the flight case and you have the bench. And these are really interesting. Again, if you're listening and you know, that we, I don't, we don't pre rehearse our conversations.

We start with an idea. We, we try to figure out where we're gonna go in the conversation. And I, I just find that really fascinating. Mm-hmm. And I think, again, it's a great challenge for all of us because we have things in our lives that we observe that as mundane. Hmm, that's right. But you know, every once in a while, just taking a different perspective on something, looking at something that's quite mundane, parochial, whatever word we wanna put to it, and we choose to take a different vantage point and all of a sudden we see a shade of this or we see a nuance of this.

And I, think it's a really provocative challenge because there's things in our lives in, in our relationships that become [00:37:00] mundane. They become parochial, that become every day, and we stop seeing the wonder of them. We don't see them in the same light, you know, we, we don't see them in that same way.

Mm-hmm. And again, whether that you're in business or whether this is a life metaphor for you, or whether it's a relational metaphor, you know, it's, it's not the object that changes. It's the perspective and the lighting we choose to cast on it. Yes. Which is very interesting. Yeah. Yeah. And, and we challenge ourselves every day.

And we've done this for the, well, however many years we've been together now, , every night before we go to sleep. Yeah. We will say a list of gratitudes to each other. Oh. But it will be, you know, the, I'm really grateful for seeing the way the light was kind of playing through those trees and kind of making that moment happen, or, I'm really grateful for hearing that song playing today that I haven't heard forever.

Wow. Or, or that experience. The school crossing guard who stopped traffic for me to cross. Yeah. I mean, come on. Yeah. But it's [00:38:00] minutiae. It's gratitude for the small details that you have to stop and pay attention to. Oh. And we, at the end of every single day, we, we make a list of gratitudes that we are, that we've seen across the course of the day.

Wow. So it keeps us kind of, it keeps us, it helps, keeps us grounded, helps make us, you know, not sweat the shitty stuff all the time because. Even on the worst day, there's a sunrise and sunset, like, you know, there are, there are beautiful moments at either end of it and, and I've been to the dark places and I've come back from them.

Yeah. So I appreciate. The, the light that's there. And we never look for them too. Right? Yeah. And you, because you're doing it every day, you the 10 things. Yeah. Yeah. You, you think of these moments like, oh, that's, that's a gratitude for later. Because you are aware of them, you wanna embrace 'em, you wanna make them something special.

So every night before we kind. It removes the cynicism, right? Yeah. Like we become so cynical Yes. In the world because it's messy and it's horrible. Yeah. But when we choose [00:39:00] to be grateful for something that we've seen, that we can make something mundane be extraordinary. Yes. Yeah. Just by the virtue of acknowledging it.

And being grateful for it. Yeah. And saying that to somebody. I think that's it too. Not just keeping it to yourself. Yeah. But sharing that with another person multiplies your gratefulness. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So even on the, so really you've got 20 things that you're grateful for. Pretty much, yeah. Even on the girl, even on the darkest crappiest days, you, you have a moment where you can sit back and go, you know?

Oh, that was a, that was a good moment. Yeah, it is interesting. 'cause it does play into the, the, the use of an artist's light and or a photographer's light. It's really all about the light. You choose to cascade on something. Yeah, right. It's, it's the, what does my name mean in French? I don't know. Tell us light.

Ah, oh, oh, Claire. Clarity one I like. I like that one. Ude. Look at that. That's a good one. I just think, and this is what I love about these conversations, because you know, we start with this idea and we start to play with it, and then [00:40:00] you find these things inside of it. And again, if you're listening, I just really want you to think about that.

What thing in your life do you one need to be maybe a bit more grateful for, but even. Even more in the metaphor, what do you have to cast a different light on? Mm-hmm. What do you have to see? And we use this, we talk about seeing something in a different light. Yeah. We, we use this term, it's much easier said than done.

And frankly, the world is full of a lot of opaqueness and darkness and things that cloud our ability to see things. Yeah. And then we have these moments of clarity. We even have this moment of light that cascades a different way of looking at ourselves or others, or even even the macro problems that we have in the world.

I mean. It's not easy to do, right? It No, it does. This is a challenge. Yeah. And I, but I love this discipline. Pam and I have a, have had a similar discipline over the years. Often when we're traveling somewhere and we now we, do something a little bit different, which I don't recommend to the average person 'cause it has led to problems.

And that is No, no, this is over traveling in the car. [00:41:00] No, no, this is in the car. It's different, isn't it? Driving. Driving. So what we, so what we say is, we say, tell, tell me two things that you really appreciate. About me right now. Yeah. And what's one thing you wish was different? And that's the conversation that we've had for years.

Oh good. By the way, Pam is very good at the second part of that conversation. She's good at both parts of the conversation. So, alright, listen, we're gonna, we're gonna bring this conversation to landing and so I'm gonna give each of you an opportunity to speak to this metaphor. So if you wanted somebody to take anything out of your life experience, this story, this idea about frame and perspective and the lenses we choose to put on other people or ourselves, what challenge would you give people in relationship to this idea that we're sort of playing with?

Claire, I'm gonna give you. I'm gonna give you an opportunity to speak to that. That's, that's really hard. 'cause it's, it's like anything, you've gotta practice it, right? Any, any new skill or anything. So, so looking at something [00:42:00] differently, you almost have to find yourself a prompt from someplace that, that asks you the question or you have a coach or someone that asks you the question.

'cause doing that work alone is really, really difficult, right? It's so if you have someone that could work with you with that, and being. Being curious about it and, and not taking yourself too seriously and knowing lots of the sort of topics that are really popular right now about, you know, not being afraid of failure, embracing it about the beginner mindset about, you know, just go ahead and do it.

It's not to be perfect, just go ahead and do it. Mm-hmm. All those sort of, at this point, cliches, they're, they're real and like, they're cliche because they are, they are through, like they came from, from that place, right, where you have to work them. So I would encourage someone to do it once. Hmm. And if it's something you have to put in your diary, if it's something you have to write down, if it's something you have to look to somebody, you have to look to like a Jen Centro, or you have to look to a Tim Windsor, or you have to look to somebody whose posts often make me cry because they're [00:43:00] so to the bone.

Like, oh my God, he's reading my mind. Get outta my head. Like, find something that clicks for you that will make you do that work. Mm-hmm. Because. It does have to be practiced. It does have to be worked at, you know, we didn't just come across as like one day like, Hey look, oh, you have to work at it. Mm-hmm.

And so maybe it's finding a community that does it as well, that does the work as well. Yeah. That you just keep doing it. That's good. Just keep doing it. That's great. That's a great de provocation. Love it. How about yourself, Pam? What would you want people to take outta this conversation as you've heard it?

What are you taking out of it? I think shining a light on someone else's story is just that the thing I think of, we can be consumed with ourselves and our own stuff and our own pain, and sometimes when we shine our light. On someone, we turn that light away and we shine it on someone else's story and say, Hey, tell me a little bit about what's going on with you and your life.

It just, it makes a [00:44:00] difference to that person and it gives you perspective on your own story that you're going through. Hmm. That's a good point. Yeah. Andy? Well, I mean, there's, there's lots of ways to approach. I, I've had good days, I've had very bad days. I've had the darkest days. And Okay. Dick come up.

I've, I've been through them, I've come through them. I've come out the other side of them. I was this close to being, someone who's unhoused. , A couple of times I disclosed to not living to see another day a couple of times. And, and yeah, to your point, you, everyone around you is going through their own shit.

Yeah. Whatever it is, whatever position in life they're in, like, you know, we've all got stuff to deal with, but we're all human beings with a, with a past and at some point there was a bad turn on a road. Yes. That they're just to somewhere where we really didn't want to go and there's just no obvious way to kind of come back from that.

[00:45:00] And we all are capable of just stopping and just kind of looking. Mm-hmm. And just kind of adjusting and just kind of thinking, it's like, you know what that. Really could almost be me. That nearly was me. Mm. Like as I say, like, you know, two weeks without power and water. Yeah. That would be everybody.

Exactly. You know, so there are so many things Yeah. Where, where that's important. So it's always important to try to. I tried to look and try to be that way. But then, but just more for more general, the way I look at everything as a couple of life lessons we'll finish on that. I've known from when I was a teenager.

First one is never put off till tomorrow what you can do today. Mm-hmm. Because if you do it today and you like it, you can do it again tomorrow. Oh, that's good. That's great. And then the last one is, I, so when I was a teenager from like 11 to 16, when I was at school in England, weekends, I used to work with a milkman.

So we used to be delivering milk to the doors. Yeah, I remember that. Good times. I loved it. And I can remember this [00:46:00] one Saturday, I was like 13 full of just. Anger and angst. And and I went up to this, lovely sweet old lady. She was in her seventies. She like walked with a frame and she was like so timid, so wonderful.

And I remember she opened the door and I'm like, mud money, because I was just in that mood. And she got kind of like, she looked at. Said, are you okay? And I said, oh, you know, life sucks or something. And she looked at me and again, she's like late seventies, sweetest lady of everything. She said, you know what?

You gotta remember. She said, life is a wonderful thing. It's the people in it that fuck it up. And my jaw just kind of hit the floor. Oh. And I just walked away from that with, with like, you know, such an epiphany moment. And that's guided me forever. That's one of my, you know, my mantra from. For nearly 50 years now.

It's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That is true. We just should, we should just try not to be the person fucking it up for somebody else. [00:47:00] That that's, that, that's the, that's the trick. That's the trick. Because every once in a while I'm the guy fucking up for somebody else. Yeah. That's the problem. Yeah.

Really great. First of all, love the conversation, so. Listen, if you're listening in and you're in the area that we're recording and you're looking for somebody who can help you represent your brand or your business, you know, Claire and Andy are people that you should connect with for sure. What I love about what you guys do, you know, if I look at your work locally in the community, so on one level, you work for one of the most prestigious.

Okay. , Restaurant change in our community. In our local community. I won't get into who that is 'cause I'd have to charge them for the production, but on another level though, you work for a community of people some of the most, marginalized. Community in our, in our area, people who, so this is really fascinating to me.

On one level, and this is the world you play in, it's, it's part of your special magic, your ability to bridge those [00:48:00] worlds, to bring different lenses to your work. But one level you work with, you know, a place where many people would maybe not even afford to die. Some days, but then you also work with marginalized people in this community who have been, frankly oppressed for many, many years.

Mm-hmm. If not centuries. Mm-hmm. That to me is a really awesome part of who you guys are. The gift that you wanna be in. All the places that you can be how present you wanna be in both of those places. How you can be in those very different worlds, but be fully authentic, be yourself, and be there in a transformational way that is really, really powerful to me.

And it's part of what I find fascinating about you as people and about your journey. So if people wanted to hunt you down. Because they wanna chat more about your journey or they wanna connect with you in a, in a business way, they wanna find your art or whatever. What's the best way for people to track you down?

Only one. Andy Wright on Instagram. The number one, only one. Number one. Andy Wright. [00:49:00] Because there is only one. There's only one. Only one. Andy? One Andy Wright? Yeah. Find, find me on there as the first point. Like and follow please. And you can DM us from there and you can reach out if you wanna look at the website, it's the same thing, only one andy wright.com.

That'll get you there. It will soon be changing to only one Andy wright.media, but we'll have a re a redirect on it. So it'll still be, it'll still be change. Yeah, you can find us there and just reach out and say hi. Awesome. Did you give the email. And the email is team TEAM, 'cause we are a team at only one.

Andy wright.com. I like that. Now we're gonna finish on this one. So I do wanna talk about what your official designation in the job is. I believe that you are, I believe that you potentially are the BOE. There is no potential. I am. You are the B oe, which stands for I am. Oh, the boss of everything. That's right.

That's right. [00:50:00] Everything, by the way. And Pam wants to become the boss of everything as well, so I'm not sure. There's no becoming, oh, she already is the boss already. She is. All right. Well listen guys, thanks for listening in. Thanks for your time today. Thanks for doing this. Thank you. And again, it's gonna be a little clunky and that's okay.

It's not perfect. Totally is. It's not. It's a, because we're doing it clunky. Yeah. Because we're doing it and we're doing it in a real authentic way across the table and people will appreciate that. I appreciate that and I appreciate this conversation. It's been tremendous having you and our host.

Tonight's been a privilege. For us too. Thank you much. Yeah. It's just really appreciate delicious meals. Yeah. Thank you very much. And so, again, if you're listening in, you listen for a reason. Do me a favor, uh, look me up on social media. You can deem M me, you can email me@timatunmodified.com and you can tell Pam everything that needs to be different.

She'll let me know after that. I was gonna say, just finishing up. Don't forget, Tim, you are, you are the boss of everything that Pam says. You can. That's true. I, I am the boss of everything that Pam WinDor says, I can be the boss of. Yeah. And that is [00:51:00] a great way to end this show. Thanks for listening in.

It's, have a great day. Cheers. Cheers. Cheers. Cheers. Oh, oh my goodness.