You’re a HUMAN BEING, not a HUMAN DOING: UNCORKED with GORDON D. MELVILLE

What if your worth had nothing to do with what you produce, achieve, or check off a list? 

In this raw and revealing UNCORKED conversation, Tim Windsor sits down with Gordon D. Melville—known as The Vault—to challenge one of the most dangerous lies of modern culture: “I am what I do.” Together they peel back the layers of identity, worth, and validation to uncover a truth that most of us have forgotten—your value doesn’t come from what you achieve, but from who you already are. This episode isn’t about adding more to your to-do list; it’s about rediscovering your I am list.

As you listen, you’ll find yourself confronting the exhausting chase for validation—the endless pursuit of more; more money, more recognition, more success—and realize that the fulfilment you’ve been chasing is already sitting quietly within you. Gordon’s concept of “worth wells” will make you rethink where you draw your validation from and why so many of us look outside ourselves for what only we can give. Through stories of athletes, leaders, and his own life lessons, Gordon invites you to stop striving to become something and instead start remembering who you already are.

This conversation is more than inspiration—it’s an invitation to live differently. You’ll walk away with a renewed sense of alignment, a deeper awareness of your intrinsic worth, and a few unsettling but liberating questions that can change how you see yourself, your work, and your legacy.

Listen in—and dare to be, not just do.

Tim Windsor
the UNCOMMODiFiED Podcast – Host & Guide
tim@uncommodified.com
https://uncommodified.com/
  
PRODUCERS: Alyne Gagne & Kris MacQueen 
MUSIC BY: https://themacqueens.ca/
 

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Transcript

PLEASE NOTE: UNCOMMODiFiED Podcast episode transcriptions are raw text files and have not been proofed or edited. They are what they are … Happy Reading.

© UNCOMMODiFiED & TIM WINDSOR

What if your worth had nothing to do with what you produce, achieve, or check off a list? What if being and becoming are more powerful than doing? live in a culture obsessed with output, hustle, grind, metrics, titles, and trophies. But somewhere along the way we've confused our doing with our being. We've traded identity for activity and in the process many of us are exhausted, hollow, and wondering if there's more In this uncork conversation, we're gonna peel all that back. We're gonna wrestle with this radical idea that you are a human being. Maybe a human becoming, not just a human doing. Your identity, your worth.

Your value aren't tied to your productivity, but to who you are and who you are becoming. And if you're brave enough to step into this sacred space with us tonight, you might just discover a healthier, more sustainable way to live, work, and lead. Hey, my friends. Welcome back to the Unmodified podcast. I'm Tim Windsor, and today my guest on the show is Gordon d Melville [00:01:00] Gordon, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much, Tim. I appreciate it. Honored to be with you. I.

Uh, it's gonna be a lot of fun. So you guys are asking, who is Gordon d Melville? First of all, it's a great name and if you're on the YouTube channel, this guy's got a great beard. There's part to the story of that, but Gordon d Melville is also AKA the vault, so you'll have to figure out what that means.

Eventually. Gordon is a founder, CEO, bestselling author and host of the nationally syndicated weekly broadcast, the long bearded guy. Reaching audiences on 450 plus platforms. He translates high performance psychology into plain actionable standards. He also mentors pro athletes and elite founders with faith rooted nole confidential rigor where radical responsibility meets compassionate championship grade execution.

This conversation is be a lot of fun. I met Gordon through the great platform LinkedIn. We've gotten together 'cause we live close together for breakfast a couple of times and I am. Excited for this conversation, but of course every great conversation for me kicks off with a drink. [00:02:00] Uh, Gordon, what are we drinking tonight?

I've got, uh, ginger, uh, what is it? Ginger, orange and something. Dandelion tea.

at tea. All right. And I'm doing tea too, so I've got, I had a virtual scotch last night. With a friend, so no scotch for me during this broadcast. I'm doing a licorice tea, so

cheers to you sir. 

you go.

Hmm.

It went really hot.

It's hot. It is, it is good stuff though. I like it a

lot. Alright, listen, let's, let's start the conversation off with this question.

So this sounds like a wonderful mantra that I, I, I'm trying to get my people to think about as we get this conversation off, this idea of human being as opposed to human doing. So this wonderful mantra message about, about this, why do you believe Gordon, it's so critical. For you and for me and for others to really press into this idea.

And how has this formed and informed your own journey and your own work over the years?

Great questions. It, it's [00:03:00] comes a lot of times I'm finding people that are, I'll say my age 'cause I know you're like a decade younger than me. But when we get to a certain age, we start to go, you know what, what's, where's my significance? We thinking about legacy. And then, you know, it, it becomes a, I was told if I did everything right, I would be happy.

And I've done all the things. I've got all the stuff. Anybody looking at it would, go, Hey, you know what, I, I'm successful. I've got the house and the wife and the kids and the cottage and the boat and the cars, and I've got all the acumen of. Of success, but I feel hollow somehow where's I don't feel significant outside of my kids.

What is there to show I was even here. And so what I'm finding, after doing, my boxing inside out tactical edge hundreds of times with more than thousands and thousands of pro athletes and high elite men. And what I'm finding is that the most dangerous lie we tell ourself, the most dangerous.

And it. Literally, every major collapse in [00:04:00] leadership I've ever seen is rooted in this lie. I am what I do. I am what I earn, I am how I'm seen.

Mm

And so what people find is if I'm, if I'm what I do, if that's where my finding my worth, and that's where I get validated. If I'm not working, all of a sudden I don't have any value.

If I'm not making enough, I don't have any value. Right. If I'm seen a certain way, maybe I don't have any value. And so we get locked into this space of looking outside of ourself for validation. And so it's, it's hooked. So insidiously with who we're being, we don't understand. I ask a lot of people, new people, Hey, who you be?

And, and I ask it that way on purpose. 'cause I'm trying to do a pattern interrupt, right? If I, if I ask the other way. Who are you being? It doesn't land the same way, first of all, but either way, they don't know. They can't answer the question or they tell me what they do [00:05:00] because we hook what we do into who we are.

And so I separate those two things. I teach people how to set, how do I separate my identity from what I do? Because who I'm who I be. And you used the word becoming, and I, I believe we're already who we're supposed to be,

Interesting.

right? I can't become who I already am. Right, so then it's not, we think of personal development as a growth and an expansion of myself, and I don't believe it is to, to way you introduced me and thank you for that was, was peeling back the layers.

Personal development is peeling off the layers to expose who I already am, because we don't believe that, right? We get pushed around and so I, I push really hard on identity worth and value after I give guys amnesty. So put down the baggage you've been caring for. Goodness knows how long

it's a lot of energy to do that. Put it down, and then use that energy in [00:06:00] figuring out and then living out of who you already are.

It's interesting, you know, so first of all, I love the correction. 'cause it's an interesting redirection and correction. So I, I suggested that part of this journey is moving from, hey, you're not a human doing. You're a human being. But then I go, you're a human becoming. And you're actually saying, well actually, Tim, you're actually already who you are, that you are being.

It's a state in which you find yourself. And even the idea of becoming. Makes us strive for something else. So your, in essence, you're saying that this is within us now and it's a different framework and you interrupt by, you know who you be, which is again, grammatically awkward. But man, it is a disruptor and it's an interrupter.

And, and Gordon, it reminds me of something interesting 'cause you talked about like when we don't have. When we don't, let's say we don't have a job or we're not doing something, then our being is challenged. And I had a situation years ago when my kids were quite [00:07:00] young. We made a decision, I made a decision to take a significant amount of time off when my children were very young.

I wanted to reset patterns in my own family because I came from a fatherless family. And so we made a decision even though financially it almost ruined us, actually. I took a year and a half off and my wife. Was not working either. At the time we lived on our savings, we spent this wonderful time with our kids.

But I had this experience maybe two months into it, I went to a social gathering in a gathering of, of men primarily of people I used to work in their sphere. And I realized for the first time I had this epiphany 'cause the per the person would go around and say, you know, what's your name?

And I'd say, Tim. And they'd say, and immediately the next question is, what do you do? And I realized when we got around to me, I was like, I'm Tim WinDor. And I, I don't know, I, I don't know what to say 'cause I had no, and I do, I had no business card. I had no, and I do, and because I had, and [00:08:00] I do, I was in this free fall for a long time of, well, who am I then?

So I totally understand that feeling because it's a challenge. So how do people. Begin and how do you begin to work with people once you arrest them with this idea of who you be? How do you begin to help them move into a state of really delving in and exploring that?

Uh, like I said, it's a, it's a process and it's a lifelong process, right? Guys tend to say, oh, I can fix it and then I move on with my life. It's over. Right? But, but that's not the way this works. And so the, the process of amnesty takes a bit, partly because we're proud.

Partly there's ego, right? And partly because we don't want to ask for help, and partly because some of it is buried so deep we've forgotten it's even there.

Hmm.

And so when we do, , I tell the guys when [00:09:00] and gals when we do it, the groups, I, tell them, I'm gonna give you a rota Taylor. Because what happens is we live and we pack that down, and then trauma happens and we pack that on top and then more life and we pack it down.

And so by the time we get to our age, there's, it's so packed down. You have Texas happen where the life-giving rain comes, but it's packed so hard, it just rolls off. It doesn't penetrate. So I'm giving them a rototiller to crack up and they can go deeper or light as they want, but the deeper they go, the better it's gonna be for them.

And so. You know, they rota till break up the soil so that when good water comes, rain comes and gives them , flourishing. That, that it actually penetrates and they learn, uh, very quickly. And some of them don't learn at all over the 12 weeks, most of the time they do. Very rarely do they not, because we, push pretty hard in terms of, the, the onboarding form is 17 pages long, so they've already dug into themself by the time we start.

Yeah. [00:10:00] But when we give them that amnesty, the challenge is we don't believe who we already are. We don't believe what our intrinsic worth and value is. That's the trick, because if, if I can, the way I usually describe that is that we don't understand who we be and we don't understand our intrinsic worth and value.

So the mindset that's created of that is skewed because it's trying to overcome a perceived deficiency that's really not there. So I don't have alignment, which means I don't have flow. And then what I do is scattered. It's all over the place. There's no purpose to it because I don't have alignment. So if I can get people to understand who they're being and believe that anchor themself there, and then anchor themself in their worth, intrinsic worth, and value, and actually believe that, then the mindset that's created is exactly what it's supposed to be.

In which case I have alignment. Now I have flow. And what I do [00:11:00] becomes an extension of who I be. They're tied together. And so, but to your point and, and to the question, yeah. Does it take some time? For sure. The hardest part is getting over that hurdle of, is that really who I am? Right. The, the exercise they do, one of the homeworks is to come up with worth wells, what I call worth wells, W-E-L-L-S.

Where do you get validated? And they go away and they come back and they go, great. Are all those worth wells? Do you get validated only at home? No, only at work. No, only at your hobby. No. Across all of those things. So once they figure out and embrace and hold onto an anchor who they be and their intrinsic worth and value, everything in their life gets better.

Every area gets better because it's insidious that it. Our, our identity and our worth and values show up everywhere in our life, right? Why can't we get outta bed? Why do, new [00:12:00] Year's resolutions last not even 60 days? Why? Because I don't believe who I really am, and so I don't show up the way I should be, even for me.

And then I, it makes it hard to show up for anybody else in my life because I can't even do it for myself.

Well, it's interesting 'cause you're, what you're reminding me of and as we have this conversation again, uh, if you're listening in, if you've listened long enough, the Unmodified podcast, you know, at times I'm gonna turn to you listeners and ask you to think about these things. And I challenge you about why you're listening.

And again, you can check out any time and stop listening. But if you keep listening, you're listening for a reason, what I'm hearing you start to say is, is that it's that deficit mentality that. I have to do something to fill a deficit. I have to become something to fill that deficit. I'm looking for you maybe to fill that deficit in me.

I'm looking for something, so now I'm always striving to get something to make me something, but what you're saying is, is that if [00:13:00] I understood my intrinsic worth and value. If I understand stood who I am, who, who I be, my human being, then everything starts to get anchored in that, to your point and aligned.

And then I can do things in a way that's more natural and it's a flow, but not to get something,

not to, not to possess something I don't have, but actually to express something

I already have.

right. That's absolutely correct. The question, and you and I have talked about that a little bit, but the question always comes up, are you a spirit having a human experience or a human having a spiritual experience? Because the answer to that will dictate how hard it is for you to hold onto who you're being and what your worth and value is.

Because if you see yourself as a human having a spiritual experience, then you're anchored into human. And for all intents and purposes, we, this is reality for most of us. Right, because I can see it touch a taste of what my senses can pick it up. This is real in my mind. [00:14:00] This is real. All the spiritual stuff is woo woo because I can't, I can't see it.

Taste it, right? The problem is I allow the matrix to influence in a negative way what's real,

Mm-hmm.

and then it, it bogs me down. Humans want to complicate the crap out of everything. So, you know, everybody always asks what are the steps? Okay, alignment and flow. That's great. What are the steps? There aren't any steps, right?

There aren't. Just be it, it, and it's so hard. People, I want to do, we're, we're, even the US Constitution talks about the pursuit of happiness. That sounds wonderful, but what I'm building into my brain is I have to pursue. It means I'm not there now.

Right.

Which means I'm never gonna get there 'cause I'm always pursuing.

So no, stop, stop, stop. Just be happy. Now, a lot of times, and I separate joy and happiness, I, I separate the two joy I can always have. 'cause that's papa inside me and I call god papa because of my relationship. [00:15:00] But, but happiness typically is situational.

Yeah.

Right? And, and you and I have talked about that before, but I, I talk about, I, I stopped saying, have a nice day, ages ago.

Yeah, because that's kind of a make the best of whatever happens. Well, that's crap. So I started to say, make it another great day because we have the power to do that. Papa gifted us the power to do that. If we, if we want to step into that, what I learned and have been learning slowly, and I've been a big choice guy my whole life, but what I realized was they have to choose to make it another great day.

So now I say to people, Hey, choose to make it another great day. I'm trying to empower them to understand. Stop doing the, the victim thing, right. We're, we're not victims. Right. Step into it. And if I, the weird part is, if I be, if I just stop and be people, go, okay, so what, what am I doing then? Well, if, if you [00:16:00] could craft your life, we were created, Papa created us, with Word yes.

Right. He spoke us into existence and then he breathed his life into us. So he's a creator. So he created us in his image. That means we're creators, which we have all this stuff around us, was created by somebody. That means our life is co-created, Papa and us together. So when I look at it, I go, alright, if I'm just gonna stop and be, who am I being?

I believe we're all one of two things. Depending on our gender, we're either sovereign sons or sovereign daughters. We're either princess or princesses. Why? Because our dad is a king. King of kings, right? But that's where, that's who we be. We're royalty at our core. We don't believe that, right? So when, if we can really, really, truly understand, Hey, I'm gonna be a sovereign son.

Yeah. [00:17:00] Then what am I gonna do? Well, what does life look like? What would you like your life to look like? I, I would challenge my clients. Go find, write down for me. What if suspend reality, su, you don't need any money. Suspend for right now, suspend at all craft what utopia looks like for you. What would the perfect life look like for you?

And then once you've got it written out, compare it to where you are now, and then go, okay, if this is what I want. Papa wants us to have that. He wants us to live what we want it to be. So then it's okay how far away, and maybe I'm 180 degrees from what my utopia is, but then it's like, alright, what can I do every day?

Even if it's a tiny little step to get closer to my utopia?

Hmm.

Right.

Yeah, but I like what you're saying here, but so even that doing to get closer again, isn't out of a sense of striving, because if we don't do it. we we can't become something we [00:18:00] already are. So it's, this is an interesting reshaping of this. And again, if you're listening in, you know, Gordon's describing this in a way that, you know, you might not have affinity for, and that's okay.

Again, I, I love having these conversations with people and you know, part of it is, is that we all have a different way of looking at this and then when we start to knit all this together, we get a very holistic view. It, one thing that's dawning on me, Gordon, as you talk, which is interesting, is. Maybe how, as a father and a parent, I may have done my kids maybe a little bit of a disservice in this journey, in that, you know, when they got to that sort of middle teens and they're starting to get towards graduating high school and what they're gonna do next, more than likely, a lot of the trajectory of my conversation is, you know, what do you wanna do?

Mm-hmm.

What are you gonna do? What are you gonna do? , I, it really wasn't, who are you, who are you gonna be?

Right.

Who are you?

And so in some ways from the [00:19:00] very, you know, we are all probably, particularly in North America, maybe in lots of other places around the world, but we have this sense in which we grow, we mature, and then we find out what we should do. Then that becomes our career, then that becomes our identity. Then that becomes, the label and the name that we have associated with us, which is typically connected to our jobs and to our outputs and to our impact and to our results. And so maybe part of this also is with our kids. Maybe we can get to do it again with our grandkids, is, you know, is you are a human being, not just a human doing. who, who do you wanna be? Who?

right.

that is a real interesting reshaping because so much of our identity, our worth or value, you said intrinsic worth and value is based on, you know, what we return the, the p and l that we create in our business, et cetera, et cetera. So let me ask you, do you think every human has exactly the same?

[00:20:00] Intrinsic worth and value. Do you think it differs or is that intrinsic worth and value rooted in that very belief that you have in the essence that you resemble the creator and that is your internal worth and value? Is that your perspective or, or does everybody have a different way of defining their intrinsic worth and value?

That's a great question and, , I can share what I believe. Not everybody's gonna believe that, and that's okay.

Yeah.

, I think it's kind for me, it's kind of like saying, well, gravity is, is crap. That's not true. I don't believe that. But if I'm a roofer and I step off a roof, whether I believe it's true or not is not, has no bearing on what's about to happen to me.

Right? So, but is everybody, yes, I believe everybody's identity. We're all his kids, whether we, right. So I use Prince Harry as the example of that. Right. He, he abdicates the [00:21:00] throne. I want nothing to do with my family. He unplugs completely. He brings Megan to California and they'll do whatever they're gonna do.

But is there anything hairy? Will, can he do anything ever in his whole life to change the fact that he was born to King Charles and lady die?

Hmm.

No. That's his birthright, his royalty, whether he acknowledges that plugs into that and lives out of that are all completely different issues. Same thing with papa, right?

Like that, that's our birthright. We're royalty. That's that just is. So then whether we acknowledge that plug into that and live out of that are all completely different issues.

Interesting. So, okay, so now let's apply this to the worlds that you play in. So let's look, you do a lot of work in that pro athlete world, high performance athletes. I'm assuming more than likely that not all the athletes you work with potentially share your same spiritual or view or worldview.

Right.

So how, when you, when you have a high performing athlete now, or maybe it's a [00:22:00] high performing executive, okay, who's just firing in all cylinders and is all about, you know, making, getting the numbers, getting the shots, getting the trophy, winning the cup, whatever it is, and their whole focus and identity is wrapped up in winning.

Right.

How do you begin to take that person who's striving constantly, uh, for the win?

How do you bring them and dial 'em into this? Through the journey you take them on. 'cause that, I, I would think that these people struggle tremendously like we all do. But man, oh man, you know, for me, my wins and losses don't get published on ESPN.

Okay? My, my gaffs, you know, with the basketball or my flagrant foul doesn't get broadcast everywhere. I don't live my life in a public stage where, where, where I lose or win. And I could, and by the way, I could have a great season, but we still lose. And so now we're losers. How do you [00:23:00] help a person in their psyche who works in those kind of arenas?

That's very interesting. Kobe Bryant once said in an interview, the interviewer asked him, what do you do after a loss? And he said, we sit down, we watch game tape. What did we do well, what did we not do well? What can we build on? What do we need to do better? And the interviewer said, okay, so what do you do after a win?

We sit down and we watch game tape and we look what we did well, what we didn't do right. He said, the win or loss doesn't mean anything at the end of the day. Really? It doesn't. It's 'cause we can't control the outcome. All we can control is what we do. What I think and what I do are the only things I can control.

Right.

And if we think we can control anything outside of ourself, we're on crack because there, it's, it's an illusion. Control is an illusion outside of ourself. So once they detach from, right. 'cause I'll ask, or outright ask. So, okay, so you had a winning season last year. That's great. How did that make you feel?

What do you mean? Well, were you completely fulfilled? You had, your [00:24:00] relationships were perfect in your life. You were happy all the time. Like every, it was just wonderful because you won. Well, no. Okay, so it's not tied to the wins and losses then. Right. I had a, an NFL retiree. He was playing, he was active when we started to work together, and he retired while we were working together.

And he called me three days later and he is like, Gord, I don't know who I am. I'm like, what do you mean? He goes like, well, I'm not an NF NFLer anymore. I'm, and I'm you're the same lovable goober you were three days ago. That's what you did. That's not who you are. Are right. And so having them understand where does your, if you're not playing anymore, do, do you not have any value?

If you're not a founder or a CEO anymore, you retire, what Now what? You don't have value anymore.

Hm.

Your value goes away. Well, no. You know, I used to say to people, uh, in, I was in the automotive, industry for a long time, and I would say to them, they would [00:25:00] say, well, what's my car worth? What's my trade worth?

And, and I would give them a number and they're like, yeah, no, no, no, that, that, that, that doesn't work for me. And I'm like, why? Well, I owe this much, right? I'm like, yeah, well, what you owe and its value have no correlation with those numbers. They're not, there's no relationship in those numbers. And they're like, yeah, yeah, there is.

I, this is what I owe. I said, you want me to prove it to you? And they're like, sure. I great. If you don't owe anything on that car, what do you want? I want what it's worth. Great. It, it, it, you don't owe anything. It's worth what it's worth, regardless of what you owe.

Huh?

So in the same way,

Yeah.

right, one has no bar.

Those what we do and what, who we be, do not have, they're, they're not connected. They're 

Wow. I mean, that is still powerful. I mean, I like that. Uh, that's a great analogy with the car 'cause that really resonates. Again, you're listening, listening for a reason. I'm gonna challenge you. In what area of your life is your sense of being intrinsic value? Way too down the [00:26:00] throat and in the teeth of what you do.

Because to, to Gordon's point, if you stop doing it tomorrow.

Right.

Does that mean you have no value and what a really powerful provocation and challenge and, and identity who we believe we are. I do think primarily does drive and determine the actions we're gonna take. If I think of it that way

too, you know, I've been, I've been training sales professionals for a long, long time and I've been working on, uh, on new training modules.

We're working on 'em actually. Got the bones of another book I'm writing, which I've got a couple I'm writing now, but this one will come later and it's on critical sales identities. And my proposition in that is, is that identity, how you identify, drives action, drives and determined action. So if I, a simple way of looking at that is if I say I'm a firefighter, if that's who I be, not just what I do, that when, when I'm not at work. Okay, because that's the work. But when I'm not at work, if I [00:27:00] see a burning building, because I identify and say I am a firefighter, I am more than likely gonna run towards that burning building as opposed to away from it.

Right.

Most people are gonna run away from it. But because in my core being I am a firefighter, I protect life, et cetera, or I'm gonna move in the direction of who I see myself being, it's gonna drive and determine the actions I take.

The actions are not my identity. They are a result of my identity. I think that's a different way of looking at it.

It's, it absolutely is a different way of looking at it. I, I think. One is an outcropping. I still separate the two. When people say, well, you know, you may have an affinity for Right. You may have a, a heartbeat to do that, right? But it's, people say all the time, oh, I was born to do, you know, it, it was just in my blood.

It it, this is who I am. [00:28:00] It's not just what I do. And I'm like,

Right.

it's still just what you do. However, you right. However you skin that cat, it's still what you do. Now to your point, can I act who I be?

Yeah.

Yes, for sure. Right. So what I'm doing can be primal in the sense of being so deeply inside me. I see it as, and that's a, that can be a problem.

Right.

So to your, to that illustration, once that fireman stops being a fireman.

Right,

All of a sudden his identity is gone.

right,

When he sees a burning building, his brain goes, oh, I, oh yeah. Right now, I, I, I'm not a firearm. No, that's not who I be. If I lock into that, all of a sudden my being is gone.

Huh.

So I, again, I still separate the two out.

Is it gonna show up in a certain way? For sure. Are you gonna act a certain way? And you're absolutely correct. You're gonna act out of [00:29:00] who you believe you are. Our pastor used to say everybody. And, and for the, for the record, I get asked all the time, you're a religious guy. No, I'm not. I'm not a fan of organized religion.

I am a spiritual guy. Right? So when I'm talking about papa, that's my own personal stuff. But that's not a, I'm not, proposing everybody needs to adopt what, right? That's, that's where I am on my journey. And a lot of times, because it's not a religious thing. Right. It becomes a, almost an areligious environment.

Non-religion is still spiritual, could be a, a non-religion thing. Right. And so, I wanna make sure people, okay. Well, he's, it's all faith based. No. Is it mine? Yes, mine is. But a lot of times what I find happening is people that don't identify as spiritual people and are not church people per se.

Right. We'll be drawn to the information [00:30:00] and as we work through some of these things, they start to realize, wait a second, wait a second. And they may not suck Right. Onto Papa right away. Right. But what anybody that, my dad asks the question all the time, very religious guy, and he asks all the time, so where is Papa in the middle of all this?

How does, how does Papa weigh into this and, and what I keep trying to share with him. Is that? Yeah. Is papa there? For sure he is. But people are going to live out of who they believe papa is. And I didn't understand that originally. It took me a little bit to chew on that, but I'm like, well, atheist doesn't even believe there is a God.

But then they make choices a certain way because they believe there's no God if they believe he's gonna slap them, if they step outta line, they make choices a certain way. Right. So to your point, that's what's driving what we do. When we don't understand who we be, and so then our [00:31:00] matrix gets in the way, and society's telling us, Hey, this is what you need to do.

You need to pursue happiness. Hey, you need to, wh what are you doing? I ask all the time when, when I get, people reach out to me on LinkedIn or social media and they'll a, you know, I can tell by looking at their. Profile. They're looking at me as a mark in the sense of they they've got cryptocurrency or VAs or what, right?

And I know that's what's happening. You can see that's what's happening. So I don't know them from Adam, so I thank them for reaching out. Thank you. I appreciate that. What prompted you to do that? First of all, I'm just curious. And then what are you choosing to create today that will bring you closer to your definite major purpose?

And how can I help you? Assist you best today? In moving that forward or achieving that, and one of two things happens. They either get ghosted 'cause they go, holy crap, we just dumped into the deep end of the ocean. I have no idea what he just asked me and I don't wanna answer the question. Or they go, what's a definite major purpose?

Hmm.

Very few people go, oh, I know exactly [00:32:00] what that is. Great question. And then it, but those are my people.

Yeah,

Right? But, but most people don't want to dig that deep. Most people just want to bitch and whine and complain that their life isn't what they want it to be.

That is, by the way, that, that is Gordon, I can attest to that. That is so true. You know what, what's interesting, again, if you're listening in, like, like Gordon said, you know, the way he's describing this and articulating that may not be your jam, and that's fine. We all have the ability to choose to look at these things in different ways.

Obviously this is an important part of Gordon's journey and he sees value in it. I see value in understanding that there's a spiritual dimension and component to, to lots of different things. We might define it, even Gordon, and I might define it a little bit differently, which I, which I partly, what I love about having these, all these different conversations I get to have on the podcast is, you know, if I only had people on the podcast they and myself to a hundred percent were on the same page all the time, man.

I wouldn't talk to anybody. Okay. So I love the fact that we can come at this stuff and we can challenge each other and we can [00:33:00] provoke each other. So I got the, here's my question. As we sort of bring the conversation in and we sort of draw some conclusions. So if a person is wrestling this conversation and they're saying, I, I'm not sure.

This is kind of awkward. I don't know what to do with it. It there's language who you be. I don't, I, I can't, I can't process that. I want, but I want to understand my value and my worth and my being a little bit, , stronger beyond what I do.

Mm-hmm.

If a person is gonna take one small step or the first small step in your experience for a journey, what's the first or the one thing that they could do that begins to reframe and set them in a direction of moving outside, of defining their worth by what they do? What's, what's one or two sort of initial steps that you would encourage a person to, to take or postures?

Okay, I, I give you [00:34:00] a little bit of a behind the curtain look at something. I teach pro athletes. I get them to sit down and write out worth wells.

Mm-hmm.

And the reason that I get them to do that is where do you get your validation from?

Okay.

Okay. And and sit down and write them all out. Write them all out. It won't be one or two.

You'll have a whole bunch. Typically people have a lot of them, right? And then once you have them written out, evaluate them. Are they positive or negative? Are they encouraging you or are they discouraging you? Are they, are they anchoring you or are they drowning you? And a lot I have yet to come across somebody that goes, well, that didn't work.

Usually by the, if they really dig in, if they really want, they really want to know, they'll realize very quickly, very quickly. I've done that with that where, where their validation comes from. [00:35:00] And then they'll understand. So for instance, if I use my wife as a worthwhile, which makes logical sense, she's my wife, that's where I would go to get validated.

Right. But you're, you're married. Lots of us are married. Some days we wake up and we look over and we go, oh, I love you so much. I feel so close to you. Oh, it's, it's wonderful. And then a week later I wake up and I go, I love you, but you know what? You're pissing me off. Get out of the bed. Right. But that's just the ebb and flow of the relationship.

The problem is this. If I look over at her and we're in an ebb instead of a flow, I'm not getting validation from her. Now I need to go to a different validation source. I walk into work and the pretty little receptionist goes, oh God, you're looking really good today, buddy. And something deep inside me goes, oh, validation, cool.

If that happens too much, I'm gonna have a problem.

Mm-hmm.

Right. Temptation getting a root there because [00:36:00] I looked outside of me for validation.

Mm.

Right? And so we're build intrinsically, we're building it into our, into our, uh, doing. Because again, we don't understand who we be and what our worth and value is all by ourself, right?

So if I'm looking outside, I laughed the other day. I was. Really a lot of pain in my head. And so I was trying to distract myself and find a way to focus. And I have this, I found this, , coloring app on my phone that plays this, you know, , rippling brook sound water, rippling sound, and, and a little bit of soft music and whatever it's supposed to call me, and it does, but I'm, I'm coloring if you've ever used one of those, I'm coloring, right?

It gives you all the numbers and the colors at the bottom. And I'm, I'm finding, I'm finding, I'm finding, and then I, there was this one part that was really hard to find. This little piece that I needed to find on the picture, and I'm searching and searching and searching and searching. When I find it, I click on it and the thing pops up.

It goes, oh, good eye. [00:37:00] And I'm like, I'm being validated by a coloring book. That's tremendous, you know? Unbelievable. Right? But it encourages me to keep coloring. Do you know what I mean? Like something inside goes. Oh, thank you so much. I appreciate that. I'm like, I'm talking to an inanimate coloring book.

Right. But that's how deep our valid outside validation is,

Yeah.

right? And so if, if I can understand validation comes from inside me,

Hmm. Right.

uh, and, and not even my opinion, we get caught up in all these other people's opinions of us. Oh, we're worried about what other people's opinions are. Most of those people don't even give a crap if we show up or not, let alone anything else.

So, , most people are so self-absorbed. They don't have any situational awareness of your challenge anyway, but we worry about it, right? Every other people's opinions are none of our business, right? Literally none of our business. And so it, and they don't matter at the grand scope of everything.

It doesn't matter. For me, my [00:38:00] own opinion doesn't even matter because some days I wake up and I can jump a small building in a single bound, and then two days later I wake up and I'm not enough and I am lax somehow. So even my own opinion to me goes up and down. Okay. Which is why I anchor it where I do the, the point is, to answer the question, if you sit down, somebody started out and was really honest about it, where do I get validated?

Yeah.

What they will find is it doesn't just happen at home or at work or in their hobby. They're gonna find out across all of those things. They get validated all over the place, and that's part of the challenge because we're hunting to the point earlier, we're pursuing. Validation I got, I gotta do something.

I gotta make something. I have to show up a certain way. I have to, I have to do something or some steps to feel validated.

Yeah. Well, it's very interesting and it is very provocative, and there's a deep spiritual core to this discussion, which is very [00:39:00] powerful and really in the, in the end, what I, partly, what I'm hearing you give me some understanding wisdom about, and hopefully as listeners as you're listening, is, is that we are pursuing what we already possess.

That's exactly right.

That. So in all of this part, part of what I'm hearing is, is that I've gotta remind myself that I am pursuing at times what I already possess.

So learning to sit in this understanding that I already possess it,

right. Right.

So I'm not clamoring to get it. I'm not being good enough to get it. I'm not being savvy enough to get it.

I'm not being smart enough to get it. I'm not being anything enough to get it, and, and therefore I can settle in because it's not a It's a possessing, which is a very different way of looking at our lives. And that I think is the [00:40:00] wonderful power of this conversation. Again, if you're listening in, I, I, you know.

I know that might be hard for you to understand. You might have life circumstances that are telling you that's just not true. But the essence of this is reminding me that sometimes I'm pursuing what I already possess.

Right.

So, you know, that's a great challenge and, and Gordon I think really appreciate you bringing that.

So let me ask you, if somebody wanted to hunt Gordon down and figure out, you know, what this looks like and understand what the vault means and understand your world, what's the best way for them to connect with, with Gordon d Melville? The vault.

Yeah. , The best way is probably LinkedIn. You can email at, , the vault confidential@gmail.com. That works too. , But yeah, that's, LinkedIn is usually the easiest way to do that. , One, one other thing about before I leave that, that before we leave that concept, , it goes even beyond just the being

yeah,

you said pursuit, so I'm not pursuing Right.[00:41:00] 

The word I would throw in there is remembering.

Ah,

interesting. 

Because we already are,

Wow.

but life has muddied that and fogged that. So all of a sudden it, no. It's remembering I am who I'm supposed to be.

That, you know what that is so interesting 'cause it was reminding me of something I wrote in my unmodified book. And so it's just interesting that Penny's dropping. 'cause in the introduction, the first chapter where I talk about this journey back to who we, who we were intrinsically made to be.

I talk about the fact that I believe what's happened is, is that we have amnesia,

right. That's exactly 

forgotten who we are.

Exactly right.

And, and so you're tipping right into that. And I think that again, man, you're reminding me of my own words right now, which is really, which is, which is shameful on one level to me. But you're reminded of that. 'cause that's really an interesting concept. 'cause we do have, we have forgotten who we, we [00:42:00] are, and.

When you forget who you are, then you're always trying to, again, maybe that goes back to you're trying to become something you already are, which is part of the problem. So I'll, I can reshape what I said in my introduction. You are a human being because you be, not just becoming, because if you, you've forgotten, maybe you've forgotten who you are.

And who you are could be shaped by a spiritual understanding, in relationship to who you are in relationship to a creative being. It could be lots of different things, but what a powerful reminder, Gordon. I I really love that. And that's, I think where I wanna settle this conversation in. 'cause that is so powerful.

Mm.

You, some of us, myself included, we've forgotten who we are

Right. Beverly Hillbillies

yeah,

was, was he a millionaire when he shot the ground and the oil popped up, or when he bought the property, he didn't know it was there.

No.

Right? He was always a [00:43:00] millionaire.

he was,

As soon as he bought the property, he was a millionaire.

yeah, it's.

was always there.

It is, you know what? It's a really good reminder, Gordon. This is really awesome. Okay, so let me, I just wanna bring it all together in my mind for my listeners and for myself, and we'll sort of end in, in this thing. So, so I think the question here that's gonna linger for me, and hopefully for you if you're listening, when the, when the mics turn off in this conversation is, will you keep defining yourself by what you do or will you dare to stand in who you are, who you be? The world, I think is always going to be demanding more doing from us. It, it's relentless, but my identity, your identity, Gordon's identity, clearly our worth, our legacy, they're not earned on the hamster wheel of the hustle. We do. They're rooted in who we are already are who we be.

Mm-hmm.

And if we walk away from this conversation thinking we got another oh a to-do list, that's a problem.

'cause I think we just have a I am [00:44:00] list.

Exactly the right.

Not even a to be list. It's, I have an I am list.

Right.

So, uh, my challenge to you as we wrap up listeners is ask yourself, who do I need to be today? Or more importantly, who already am I

Mm-hmm.

whole present unapologetically human? Because the truth is you're doing and striving to possess something that you already have.

It's. Relentless evil force, and we are under the power of amnesia.

Gordon, what a great reminder. Thanks for the conversation. Thanks for listening in. Again, DM me if you'd like. Email me@timothyoncommodified.com and tell me and Gordon what you're doing with this. 'cause this is, it's a conversation that's gonna mess your mind up a little

bit, but I have a feeling, Gordon, that's what you like to do.

It is absolutely what I disruptor. Absolutely.

You are. Thanks for your time today, Gordon.

Cheers. [00:45:00] 

Choose to make it another great day.

I will do that. And you do as well listeners.

Thank you.