WHAT JUICES ME: UNCORKED with TIM WINDSOR

In this UNCORKED CONVERSATION, the mic flips, and Tim Windsor steps out from behind the host chair and into the heat of an unfiltered conversation with longtime friend Kris MacQueen on his “What Juices You” Podcast. What unfolds is not a polished interview but a raw exploration of what actually fuels a life of impact. Tim unpacks the tension that animates his work and his life, authenticity and accountability, and why fake drains us faster than failure ever could. From childhood moments in grocery store aisles to hard truths shared between friends, this conversation exposes the forces that energize us or quietly empty our internal batteries. 

Listeners will hear why leadership is not about motivation but conversion, converting tension into energy, converting honesty into action, converting generosity into momentum. Tim challenges the idea that intention alone is enough and argues that real leadership sends people home with more energy for their real lives, not less. The episode dives into provocative ideas like being stabbed in the front by people who care enough to tell the truth, generosity as a scalpel that opens possibilities, and why the stories we tell ourselves quietly decide the legacy we leave behind long after we are gone.

This conversation offers more than insight; it offers a challenge. Pay attention to what actually juices you and what secretly exhausts you. Ask yourself where you are outsourcing responsibility for your own energy. Examine the story you are writing and whether it is one you would want retold two years after you are gone. And perhaps most confronting of all, consider whether the people who encounter you leave more alive or more depleted. This is not just an interview, it is an invitation to own your energy, your impact and your legacy in real time.

Tim Windsor
the UNCOMMODiFiED Podcast – Host & Guide
tim@uncommodified.com

https://uncommodified.com/
 
PRODUCERS: Alyne Gagne & Kris MacQueen 
MUSIC BY: https://themacqueens.ca/
 

Transcript

PLEASE NOTE: UNCOMMODiFiED Podcast episode transcriptions are raw text files and have not been proofed or edited. They are what they are … Happy Reading.

© UNCOMMODiFiED & TIM WINDSOR

Hey, my friends. I'm Tim Windsor. Welcome to the UNCommodified Podcast. This is a different one. Let me explain it this way. There is a strange and powerful energy that fills the air. When you flip the mic and move from post to guest exposes you and it confronts you. It asks you to practice what you preach in real time and in this uncork conversation.

A conversation because we recorded it not as a noncore conversation with my great friend and producer, Chris McQueen on his What Juices You Podcast. I had to do exactly that. Chris pulled me into a space where the thing that fuels and juices me most authenticity and accountability, stopping theories for me that I teach, it became the very ground I had to stand on during the conversation.

We dug into what animates me, what electrifies me, what drains me, and why fake is exhausting for me In every human interaction, we explored the [00:01:00] tension between bringing my full, flawed self into the world and owning the consequences of doing exactly that. That tension that sparked between the rails of authenticity and accountability is where my life and leadership actually lives.

What emerged in this conversation was bigger than personal fuel sources. It was a challenge to me and hopefully to you to confront the internal batteries. We rely on the narratives that trap us, the excuses that numb us, and the choices we fail to acknowledge our hours. During this conversation, I found myself revisiting a story of a 9-year-old boy trying to study his mother in a grocery store aisle, and how that moment still shapes the work I do with leaders today.

We talked about being stabbed in the front by people who love us enough to tell us the truth about being provocateurs of one another's greatness, about generosity as a scalpel that opens possibility and about the kind of impact that [00:02:00] still echoes two years after we're gone. This isn't just an interview, it's an invitation to examine your energy sources, your intentions, and the story you are writing because whether you know it or not.

You are already leaving a legacy. Are you ready? Let's get this conversation started, and thanks Chris McQueen for being the provocateur of it.

Welcome to What Juices You, our podcast where we explore what energizes leaders and how they fuel that energy and how it connects in with their, their performance, connection, and growth. My name is Chris McQueen from Juice Inc. And today I get to sit down with a longtime friend and colleague, someone who brings insight, curiosity, and purpose to the work that they do.

We will be looking at what drives him, what sustains him, and what he's learned along the way. Today I am excited to have my, my dear friend Tim Windsor is a passionate, provocative keynote speaker, hosting and [00:03:00] guide to the Unmodified podcast, author of the book, the Unmodified. He's a facilitator, trainers, uh, strategist, consultant, coach, business owner, and one of my dearest friends in the world.

Tim, welcome to What Juices You. Oh, thank you. By the way, who are you talking about in that introduction? I, I don't, I don't even know this person. Well, this is becoming your, your laundry list. Oh. Now full disclosure. To our listeners, to our viewers, Tim and I, when I say one of my dearest friends, uh, who really mean that, Tim, I was thinking about this unless my math is wrong.

I think we are clocking in at about 30 years of, of knowing one another. Yes. I I think that I originally met you, Chris, when you weren't even 20 years old. I believe. I think I was 17 or 18, something like that. Yeah. Ab absolutely destined for greatness at that time. So look, look how far you look, how far you've run, and well, and here we are.

Here we are. And I mean, [00:04:00] really in the last decade in a lot of ways we have partnered in really remarkable ways, and one thing that I'm looking forward to unpacking. I know that you have your own things that, that juice you, that fuel you, that give you the resources that you need to make your contributions in the world.

Um, and there's a unique gift that you bring, which is actually connecting other people to their energy source. When I think about even just personally, some of the very meaningful work that I do in my life, and a good portion of those initiatives actually stem from conversations that you and I had. Um, I am really, really looking forward to diving in and, and exploring that stuff.

What, not just what makes Tim tick some of that, uh, but what is it that turns the lights on in the morning? And so why don't we really just start there and, and this is the question that, I mean, juice. This is our, our entire business is essentially founded on asking people, asking leaders this question, what is it that [00:05:00] juices you?

What is it that energizes you? That thing that when you wake up in the morning, it doesn't have to, uh, it, it, you don't fuel it, it fuels you. So, Tim, when you think about it, if you were to distill it down, what is it that juices you? Yeah. You know, it's interesting 'cause in thinking about doing this conversation with you, Chris, I, I've been doing a lot of thinking about this 'cause it's not something you necessarily think about because if it innately induces you, you don't always understand it or you might not even consider it, which is part of the problem because we don't necessarily see this 'cause they're just sort of part of our DNA.

But when I think of what juices me. I first think of the word animation. What animates me? Okay? What brings me to life? You know, again, we talk about juice, energy, talk about current, talk about all these things, and I really think there's two things in my life that energize and juice me, and I have made it, I think my life's goal to see if I could be a provocateur of these things and others, and that [00:06:00] is authenticity.

And accountability. Okay. Those two things for me, energize me. And they're, I, I think that they're part of not only things that energize me, but the things that I wanna energize in others, because I think that these are two critical things. I almost see them like battery posts. You wanna on a battery, you, I hook myself and I wanna hook myself up every day to authentic authenticity and accountability.

When I get my hands on those, just like putting 'em on a, a battery terminal, I feel absolutely full of energy, full of power, full of life for my world, for my personal and professional life, that that's what it is at the end of the day. Wow. I will say that is. I believe that's a very unique answer. Right. I would love to tease that apart.

You said when you encounter those things, when you put your hands on those things, like two posts on a [00:07:00] battery, something really good happens. Yep. Right. Authenticity. Accountability. Is it primarily, um, when you find yourself opportunities where you can really put yourself? On the hook and know that it's your true self that's being put on the hook.

Um, that's kind of what I hear. So, uh, first of all, correct me if I'm wrong, is that, is that a good interpretation of what you said? Yeah, I think there's two parts of it. One is being, being on the hook for that because I do think it's important, but I, I do think that this is just. The way I get up every day.

And so this is where I feel like sometimes it's hard to articulate these things. 'cause you say, well, what really drives me? And you know, we can look at external factors, we can look at all these things, but these are internal forces that actually drive me. I mean, when I think of authenticity, I'm thinking about, I think about vulnerability as part of that, but I actually think about bringing my authentic self.

To every [00:08:00] moment of my life. And by the way, that's not always the best thing to do. It's not always positively rewarding sometimes for me or others, but. It's de-energized for me to operate in ways that are non not authentic to me, because yeah, faking it takes a lot of energy. It drains my juice for sure, when I've gotta fake it.

Yes. And put it on and figure it out for the sake of being accepted and for the sake of signing a deal with a customer. I just not interested. Now, I'm not saying. That there isn't some decorum and respect that happens in a relationship. But at the end of the day, if I have to sell myself out, if I can't bring my full authentic self to every moment that I'm gonna be engaged in on this earth, it's just not worth it for me.

So that's a big part of it is I feel that when I'm operating in my authentic self, I don't have to work it up. I don't have to muster up the energy. 'cause fake is exhausting. Yeah. So. I [00:09:00] mean, I love it. So, so the sense of Tim must bring Tim and, uh, and I, I mean I think that's a really great working definition for authenticity of going to bring me into this space.

And when I think about the other word that you kind of married into there, the, this accountability piece, um, yeah, it's interesting. I can see, I initially, my brain went there. Accountability means being on the hook for something and, and Sure. And I've, I mean, I've seen that we've got lots of stories over the years where I've seen that in action in you, but I'm actually hearing that Tim must be able to bring his best stuff, or not just his best stuff, his true stuff.

Whether it's the best or not on one on one hand. Yep. Um, but at the same time to, to really know that you're. Owning it that, that it's not just about doing somebody else's mission, just about living somebody else's life or [00:10:00] realizing somebody else's goals. I know you hold out for other people's highest good and we've seen that in evidence, but there is something about you need to be able to, uh, to to own where this is going.

We're getting close. Well, I think so, and I think, I think there's two things for me, Chris, in this conversation. I think one, authenticity and accountability also hold things in tension for me. So when, right. I'm my authentic self, sometimes that means that I can create some, some set of problems.

Accountability. Yeah. It helps me understand that I am a hundred percent responsible for my own experience and the experience I give others. Yes, it's accountable for the outcomes I create for myself or my customers or in my family, but also it it, it's this idea of o of ownership and this idea of holding.

When I think of the word accountability, when we hear this word, we often, the next word that often I think comes to our mind is the idea of holding. Yes. The problem that I [00:11:00] see around me sometimes is that we get. The object of that holding wrong, where we're all about holding others accountable. Or we ask somebody else to hold us accountable, and I actually believe that's not any other human's responsibility.

My responsibility is to hold myself accountable for the actions, behaviors, and attitudes that I express. That means actually accepting the good, the bad, the ugly, the great, the amazing, the excellent. But yeah, owning the outcomes and the uh, and the impact of my behavior, even my most authentic behavior, that to me is important, and these things actually work in tandem for me because if I'm just authentic, but I have no sense of accountability to the impact, I think that's a problem.

If I'm accountable, but I'm not authentic, that becomes fake. So I think these things do hold tension, and in that tension, it, it creates this sense for me of energy and it's energy that I can express to the [00:12:00] world, but also energy that I can use to reign myself in and harness myself, holding myself accountable.

For the behaviors, actions, and attitudes that I say that I esp that, that to me is how this stuff, it's, we could think of it maybe also like two train tracks. It sort of keeps me moving forward, but it keeps me on track on one. One of these rails for me is auth, this auth authenticity, and the other track for me is accountability.

And when they ride together, I think that I actually accomplish more and I have a greater impact on myself and others in the worlds that I show up in. That is really powerful and there are some things that are clicking into place for me listening to you talk. Um. You know, it's interesting when we think about energy sources, and let's just be clear, meaningful work is always going to have some kind of a draw on our resources, right?

Even the stuff that we love to do. Sure. If we do it all day long, there will be a measure of this fatigue that [00:13:00] follows that output. So we're talking in a lot of ways about what is it that is fueling those initiatives. Yeah. And a lot of the things that sometimes people, including myself, will pull and identify as being energizing are kind of.

Extrinsic or external stuff. Yeah. And, and there's a lot of merit in that, right? So community around us being recognized, all of that sort of thing. There's something unique that I'm hearing in that this particular constellation of resources for you, it's almost, there is some kind of an alchemy where you take these two things and as you described them, there is some tension and as you put.

Kind of bring them together. I mean, we're talking about, I don't quite know the physics of how magnets generate energy, but it u it's utilizing some of the push pull. And being able to generate something and that feels like a fairly internal battery where you can harness those things. Talk to me about that, because I don't, [00:14:00] is that something that you've always just naturally done where you think, mm-hmm Hey, here's an opportunity for me to bring my best stuff and to make sure that I am absolutely accountable for all of my outcomes.

That doesn't feel like we're born with that. Maybe we are. I'm very interested. Where did you stumble across the architecture for this? So I think it's a, it's a brilliant question and we, it's nature and nurture, I would say. I don't know if I was born with it, but I was born into it, right? The circumstance and family that I was born into and the situation I was born in and my family, which I won't get into, I think created a world where I needed to actually create my own.

Particularly positive energy to move outside and beyond the circumstances that I was born into. So I wa I don't know if I, it was in my DNA or if it just was early nurture. I, I really, it was more survival in some ways in me, the beginning days I had to generate. Uh, a, a, a positive energy within myself because all my [00:15:00] world was not full of that at all.

Yes. And so I think at an early age, I began to realize that's just sort of how I was gonna survive. I was gonna have to generate a positive energy within myself, and I was gonna need to radiate it outside of myself to the circumstances I was living in, the circumstances I was born into. And then even as getting into my teenage years.

So I think a lot of was probably shaped in those early days. I also think, you know, I wa I effectively almost all my career, up until about five, six years ago, I was a solopreneur. And so, right. Again, I, I was in an environment where I, I had, I couldn't look for anybody else to provide me the energy, the, the chutzpah to get stuff done, make it happen, and be, and show up the way I wanted to show up.

Now, of course, I've got, I've got amazing, uh, partner. My wife, Pam's amazing. I've got great kids and they all sort of. Feed that positive energy. But day to day, in my world, I can't look for external sources most [00:16:00] days to find this. I've got to find it within. And so for me, that's where it starts. I also think that it's good to get it from external sources, but if I'm looking for to you, Chris, or everyone else, to give me the positive energy that I require every day, at some point I'm gonna create a paradigm where I'm gonna be fundamentally.

De-energized and unhappy with you because you are not giving me what I need. Mm-hmm. Right now, of course, what you do affects me, but at the same time, to be really frank, it, it, it doesn't matter what you do, what you say, it, it, I, I am responsible for. To show up positive, full of energy, full of authenticity, full of accountability, full of gracious awareness for myself and others.

That's a hundred percent my responsibility. That's the way I look at life. That's not the company's responsibility. It's not my, it's not my partner's responsibility. It's not my kid's responsibility. It's not my team's responsibility. It's not my boss's responsibility. It's mine. [00:17:00] That's the way I look at life.

Oh, I love that. I mean, just owning it. Um, and so again, what I am, I'm hearing is without getting into the particulars, you, you come into this world. There is not a plentiful, uh, universe of energy sources for you. And so you stumble across these elements that when you put them together, they start to fuel you.

And you said a really important thing. We all. No, I would, again, maybe I shouldn't make that assumption. Not all energy is necessarily virtuous, and so the underlying assumption is that we are talking about virtuous energy sources here. So you stumble across this and you realize. Whether you put language to it then or not, A pattern emerges that's positive and, and is starting to yield some of the positive impact that you wanna make you, it starts to fuel your best work in the [00:18:00] world.

Um, do you have a moment in your story that kind of encapsulates that experience where there was maybe some piece of your brain that said this thing that just happened? This is it for me. I, this is, I need to protect this. I need to own that, my responsibility in putting these things together. Do you have a moment where you look back and say, in that experience, I actually learned that this was an energy resource to me, and it was a renewable one too.

Yeah. I, I would say for me, when I think back into my, sort of my mid-teen years, and part of that for me was being to recognize that for me anyways, that there was, uh, there was an immaterial part of life. Uh, call it spiritual call, call it, whatever you wanna call it. I mean, people call it different things, and that's fine.

But for me, I think for me, the thing that started to generate this energy in an even larger way was to [00:19:00] recognize that I, I wasn't alone. So this is, this is the kind of thing is that I grew up quite alone generating my own positive energy. I started to encounter some people in my mid-teens that I began to realize had had a similar disposition towards positive, positive energy, a fueling in themselves and others.

And so I began to be attracted to a group of people who could call that out in me and correct, but the strange part about that, that also became a very bad situation. So what I, I, I had all of a sudden this positive input of others around me, but then it didn't go quite the way I expected because what I realized is, is that I expected people, like I expected myself to show up with AU authenticity and accountability, and I realized that they weren't.

And I was becoming extremely frustrated and disappointed. And that's when I began to go back and realize that, hey, you know what? At the end of the day, I'm responsible for myself and I can't. I can't make people choose. I can't make people live a certain [00:20:00] way or express a certain way. And so there was a great positive experience, but then there was a negative experience within that that reminded me that I am responsible at the end of the day for my own head.

What's going on in my head, my brain, my heart. I'm responsible. So I think it was that situation that both on a positive level encouraged me that there was other people who wanted to have, uh, a positive EE energizing experience, and they wanted to give it to others. And then I also recognized that we're human and we, we have a propensity to cock things up in a thousand ways and it gets messy.

Yeah. But then I, as I went through that, I began to realize that, you know what, I needed to also not be so judgmental. And I think that was the key for me is, is that I began to realize that I had to hold myself to a standard, but I, I had to be careful of what standard I was holding other people to it.

It's a delicate balance, right? Yeah. And you know, when I think about the work that you do now. Um, and so you work with a lot of leaders. You host a podcast, [00:21:00] which we are actually quite involved in together. I meant to mention this earlier, the Unmodified podcast, which actually we're gonna be cross-posting this, and so this is gonna show up in, in both of our universes.

Yeah. And so that's, that's very exciting actually for you. I'm looking forward to that. I think my listeners will resonate with this conversation as well, as well as the juice juice community. So it'd be great. Yeah. Um, and so in the work that you do, I mean, I, I have had the privilege of seeing you in action in lots of different contexts over the years, and I.

I see that a lot of what you've learned and the way you practice fueling your own actions, right, and is a big part of what you bring and contribute to those around you. So the invitation into discovering. What it in a lot of ways, what it is that's helped to create the direction of your own life in your own work.

First of all, lemme check. And does, is that a good representation of the work that you do or would you frame that up differently? No, I think that's a good representation and it's kind of interesting 'cause we're have, we [00:22:00] have this metaphor that seems to be emerging, which I always love. You know, I, I, I'm talking about for me, what juices me is authenticity.

Uh, you know, that, that, and accountability. But, you know, you just made a comment about action and I, I, this is really important to me. Because I think this is maybe the, the other part of the equation is that authenticity and accountability needs to find its fulfillment in the natural real world, in positively expressed actions that have not just my best interest in mind, but the best interest of the constituents around me.

And this is also a challenge where I think so often. We forget that, you know, the thinking is important. It's the thought that, that we, we hear this all the time. It's the thought that counts. You know, to be honest, I'm not sure if it does, unless it gets outta my head and translates into an action. Yes.

Right. I can think generously about others. I can think about wanting to, you know, create a really positive environment for my team and my work. I can think about creating a better community. [00:23:00] Whatever I can think about, you know, a, a better, more well kept earth. Frankly, at the end of the day, if, if I don't express an action, if my, if the energy that is inside doesn't express itself as a positive action or articulation to someone else or about something else, no.

Nothing really good happens in the end. So it, it's the outworking of that in the action that ultimately it, it, it's the litmus test of everything at the end of the day, because we can feel juiced up inside. We can be, we can feel like we're full of positive energy, but frankly, if you go into a room and you, you as a leader and you suck all the oxygen out of the room and then you bitch and complain that your people can't be lit on fire, I'm gonna suggest that's your problem, not theirs.

I love you, Tim. Yes. And this brings up a really interesting, um, elements that I think it's, I, it's, it's not new, but it hasn't been explicit. I think it's [00:24:00] been implied. But let's dive into this a little bit. 'cause there's a third element that you just brought in. You talked about these two things that you bring together that create a really positive tension that you then are able to catalyze and transform into energy and the additional.

Piece of this that I just heard is that the direction of that energy really matters in terms of it netting into the thing that is gonna get you to do it again tomorrow. And you gave a bit of a nod to what that looks like. But if you were to think about. What makes this a trifecta? The third piece, the direction, the target, the bullseye that kind of translates this so that it becomes positive energy.

What would you say that that component is? What does that buildup Yeah. Have to be directed to in order for in, in order for the connection to really spark something? What does it look like? Yeah. I mean, I think when I think of that, that question, [00:25:00] which is a great question, I, I think it, it has to do with intentionality.

Okay, so the question is, what is my intention? Is my intention. So towards myself. Let's talk about, first of all, 'cause I think everything first has to be practiced on myself. Sure. So, you know, oftentimes I find myself speaking to myself in my head in a way I would never speak to anybody else. Okay. So sometimes my intentions towards myself isn't really that positive.

Sometimes my intention is to just sort of brutalize and criticize myself and there's no, there's no value in that. At the end of the day, it's not that helpful. And it surely doesn't continue to spark positive energy. So intentionality about how I wanna be with myself, how I wanna speak to myself, and how I want to catalyze myself to actions that make impact, positive impact.

That's where it starts in my own brain. Then outside of myself, I think the question is, what is my intention with the people that are in my orbit? Yeah. Is my intention to leave them [00:26:00] in a better place than I found them is my intention. Okay. You know, as I often say to the leaders that I work with, I say, look, I think the goal, the worthy goal of leadership should be that we send people home at the end of the day with more energy for the most important part of their life than less.

That, to me, is one of the highest intentions. Great leaders and that lead teams ought to have in their mind. I don't think the greatest, highest intention is margin growth. I don't think the greatest, highest intention is, is higher sales numbers. I think the greatest, highest intention of my expression, of my connection with another human is to leave them in a more positive state of mind and being a more energized state of mind and being after they've encountered me.

Than before they encountered me, and to send anybody away from a conversation with me. [00:27:00] Whether it's a personal conversation, a professional conversation, to less send them more energized and more equipped and more empowered to go and live and do their best work and do their best thing in their life. Now, don't get me wrong, I think highly energized, highly captivated people who we send home at the end of the day with more energy for their real life.

We'll create more margin, we'll sell more stuff. You know, Warren Buffet said it quite simply. He said, the secret to business success is rather simple. Happy employees make satisfied customers and satisfied customers, make ecstatic shareholders. Then he went on to say, the problem is most leaders work on the wrong end of this equation all day.

They spend all their day trying to satisfy shareholders when they should just try to spend the equation of trying to make people happy. We could add to that, not just happy, more energized. Right. 'cause that is what makes everything work around. If we send people home depleted, dejected, deflated to the more important part of their life, we are [00:28:00] missing the grand opportunity that we have as people, as humans, and as leaders.

And that is not worth any trade off for quarterly results in my opinion. It is so funny as an observer, Tim, you've always got good energy, at least when we hang out. Something happened in your countenance when you started to talk about this particular component. So I have a suspicion, and you, you can disavow me of this belief, but I suspect that you have a sense of when you were having that impact on somebody.

When you're thinking, you know what, right now we are in the zone. We're in the pocket. There are connections that are happening and this person is going to leave this conversation with more energy, not less for what is most important to them in their life. How does it, how does that [00:29:00] feel internally for you when you, when that is happening, what is going on in your internal space?

How do you experience that moment? You know what, yes. As you ask the question, and what I love about this conversation is, and for those listening you may not realize this about this Juice podcast is this, these are unrehearsed conversations, which is really brilliant. 'cause sometimes everybody wants to package it up and make, figure it all out in advance, which I appreciate the fact that this is organic conversation.

I will say, Chris, as you say that I'm having an epiphany, a revelation, I, you know how I feel. I'll tell you how I feel. I feel. Like I'm a 9-year-old kid again trying to help my mom not have a panic attack in the grocery store. I feel like I'm a fully empowered 9-year-old, not real adult who's helping my mom navigate the complexities of the framework of her existence.

And that's how I feel. I feel [00:30:00] like I'm saving somebody. I know this sounds weird. Mm-hmm. But I feel like I'm actually contributing in such a way that I'm dialing down her anxiety, that I'm helping her find her center so we can walk out of that store. Not her have a panic attack in aisle four like yesterday.

Right? That's how I feel. Wow. That's how I feel today. And there's, and that might be, maybe I just need to go see my therapist again about all the weird stuff in there, but that's how I feel. I feel like a person who should have no power because I'm a kid that I have power, right? I have the ability to actually change the presence of something or experience for my mother.

Today I feel like the same way. I have the ability, I can walk into a situation with a customer of mine or a friend or a call, whatever it is, and I can enter into a conversation and I can actually bring that same kind of sense of relief and positivity and stick their hand [00:31:00] up and pull their chin up and say, let's look at this differently.

What if. You know, you weren't this, my wife and I had this conversation over lunch before I came on this podcast. We were walking the dog, and my wife right now is dealing with her mother. Her mother just passed away, and we're working through that and Pam's doing all this stuff with the estate and everything, and Pam's struggling with some of that and saying, I don't feel competent, don't feel, and I said, Pam, you're one of the most compassionate, brilliant, competent people I know.

How do you not see yourself this way? This is how I see you. This is what I see in you. This is what I see. And it's interesting 'cause it was just all of a sudden she said, you know what? You're right. I am all that. I don't know why I can't see it. That is the opportunity and that's how I feel. Yeah. Hearing in all of that, this deep desire, but I, I, I feel like it crest into.

A need, and I would say a healthy need [00:32:00] to really be able to make a difference in these situations and in particular situations where, and again, putting some words in your mouth, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but where it feels like maybe there's a predetermined outcome. Maybe a less than ideal outcome and making a difference in changing that future arc, that future story, um, that it feels to me like that is something that, like a need to matter and, and to matter in that kind of way.

Seems like maybe there's some consistency there over time. How does that sit with you? Yeah, I think there is, I, I think, you know. Chose the word story narrative. I think we all have a narrative that we write, we write within, and we create our life within or work within. And some of those narratives, frankly, are just not really helpful.

And I think sometimes people get so buried in the story of their life and they, they can't find the right theme and they can't get out of the chapter. They just get stuck in chapter 13 [00:33:00] and they can't get it out. And. Every once in a while. I think what we need is to do for ourselves, but to do it for others is to help people understand, Hey, we have the power, we have the pen, we have the paper, we have the ability to write a different story, a new narrative.

Mm-hmm. We always, this is where I think goes back to accountability. I, I'm accountable for my story, you're accountable for your story. But I can surely encourage you and help you see beyond the din of where you are today to write a different chapter, whether it's in your business or whether it's in your professional life or personal life.

We have the power because we have the privilege, particularly in North America, of we have the privilege of choice. A lot of places in the world. I've spent a lot of time in foreign countries working. Uh, a lot of people don't have as many choices as we do. We have choice, and one of the things we have to, to, to, to before us every day is we can choose how we show up.

We can choose how we write a different chapter, even if it's difficult, even if we've gone through tremendous pain or difficulty in our lives. I'm not [00:34:00] negating any of that, but at any moment we can ask ourselves, what's that new story or narrative gonna look like? And we ought to put our energy, our positive energy, we, we ought to get juiced to write something different that calls us forward into something deeper, stronger, better, faster, and more wonderfully positive and brilliant for the sake of ourselves and others, you know?

Right. Like I just mentioned before, my mother-in-law just passed away. When somebody passes away, you, you begin to ask yourself a subset of questions about what is your impact gonna be? How are you going to be remembered? Because I, one moment in time, all of our lives will be reduced to story. It's a narrative.

The only thing that survives will be the story of Tim, the story of Chris. And the question is when people recount that story, and not just at our funeral, whether just trying to be nice, but two years later, what will the story be of the impact [00:35:00] that we had on them? 'cause after all is said and done, that's all that remains, right.

Yeah, it's, it's interesting, particularly as you crest into certain years of life, you do start to ask, as you say, a subset of different questions. And by the way, I am very, very sorry to hear about that loss in family. Appreciate that, Chris, as we start to think about some of these big existential things.

I haven't heard too many people frame it up quite like that. Uh, yeah. I wanna engineer a little bit, you know, the eulogy, I mean, I, I, I want to get people something to talk about. I don't hear a lot of people talk about what those individuals are saying two years after. And so there's something about really a, a, a reaching forward.

I just, I love that because that's deeper impact, right? So that's something that goes beyond just the, the surface into, uh, no, there's something that became entrenched in the lives of other people. [00:36:00] So practiced. Yeah. Uh, formative, right? So we can, we can have some impact that is very surface and we see subtle changes.

Temporary shifts and then there are some of the more seismic shifts that take place and they emerge in a way that is more sustainable, which is what kind of what I hear in there that is really important to you. We've already done a lot of really great work in this conversation, moving in this, but one of the moments that you and I have shared and I want to bring it into, into this conversation.

This is rolling back the tapes, uh, gosh, almost a decade I would say at this point. And I was involved in leading a nonprofit and there were areas of just struggle with what we were doing, uh, with our work. And it all felt like there were external challenges and that the hard things were in spite of, uh, my best efforts and best efforts of my partner at the time.

And I remember you looked at me and said. Something to the effect of, [00:37:00] Chris, can I just introduce, can I just put a, a seed in your head? What if your current reality is not in spite of your best actions, but as a direct result of your actions? And I will tell you, Tim, that felt a little bit like a, like the slip of a knife, but, but it was more like a sculpt, more like the, the wounds of a friend because it didn't feel great.

But there was something that really emerged on the other side of that little surgery that you performed in my perspective, which was maybe I actually have more agency here than I thought that I, maybe that's actually not a bad news story. Maybe I have to level up my responsibility, but maybe that means I, I get to, I get to have more of an impact and I have more power than I thought that I did for outcomes and.

To me that feels like a bit of a microcosm of some of the, what we would [00:38:00] call your juice for the world. And, and we're not gonna necessarily say nobody else in the world does this thing, but there, there, there, there are things that Tim WinDor does that are pretty unique in the world that are contributions.

And if you were to refine it down and say, you know what, this is actually, I think that two years after I'm gone. This is what people will be saying. I hope this is what people are saying of me. What do you think it is your juice for the world? Well, I, I imagine they'll be saying a lot of things about me, which I'm not sure that my wife would be too proud of.

But the things that we might be proud of, I think it's connected to what you just said. So I, I find it fascinating as you described that experience and you liken it to that, maybe a bit of a, a knife. And Mark Twain famously said, you know, my best friends stab me in the front. Right? And you know what, it's not just a, a, a, a, [00:39:00] a witty turn of phrase, Rick.

I think it's super important. It goes back to authenticity, and that is, I hope that. When it's all said and done and my life energy is transferred to some other source, that people will remember me as somebody who stabbed them in the front. And what I mean by that is 'cause you know, you use the term scalpel.

I think a scalpel and a knife are exactly the same. It's the intention of the one who wields it. That's different, right? One wounds to heal or the other wounds to hurt. I do hope that people will remember me, what juices me? It does, and this might sound strange and maybe I should, you know, maybe it's a bit psychopathic, but I actually, what juices me is knowing that I have enough authentic relational equity with another human to pull them close and whisper with some tenderness while wounding them to be a Provo, a [00:40:00] Provo, a provocation.

A provocateur of something great in their life. Hmm. And you know, that's why I've always made it a habit and it always hasn't worked in my favor. If I have something to say, I will always say it to your face. Not for the sake of, of destruction, but for the sake of honoring what honesty and vulnerability can do in the human heart and in my heart as I want me to people to be the same with me.

And that's hard. 'cause in workplaces we don't know how to deal with that. It's hard. We, you know, we don't know how to have honest conversation at times. I mean, I'm sure that Juice spends a lot of time helping people understand they are of difficult conversations and how to manage all those things. But man, I hope, hope at the end of the day that two years after I'm gone, Chris, 'cause I'm more than likely I'm gonna die significantly earlier than you for sure.

Because of your age. I hope that you will [00:41:00] say, Hey, Tim is the guy who stabbed me in the front and this is. Actually what it provoked, it's, it's sort of like this idea of, you know, we talk about, there's this old proverb or phrase that says, talks about spurring one another on to love and good deeds. You know, that analogy is interesting.

That means I sort of get on your back every once in a while and I lay the spurs into you. For the sake of motivating you towards love in good deeds for, for the positive benefit of yourself and others. We, we come back to this. Yeah. Energy negative or positive Energy is energy. We have the choice we could, we're converters.

We can take the positive energy around us. We can take the negative energy around us, in our workplaces, in our culture, in our world. We can take all the negative energy of the news. And we have a choice. We can bring it in, we can amp it up and send it back out as negative energy. Or we can take it in. We can suck out the raw energy, we can convert it with a positive intention and push it back out.

I think that's a choice all day long. Every day. To every leader. Yeah, every team member, every human, [00:42:00] every citizen. Every father, every mother, every child. This is our opportunity. I feel the authenticity I, I feel the invitation into accountability in this, and I think that's a really important thing for us to call out.

Sometimes there can be such a focus on energy for the sake of productivity. For the sake of hitting this target or that, or this KP, I'm, I'm not denigrating those things that, which we don't measure, we don't care about. And so that, that stuff matters. But there's something that is way beyond those things that I am hearing here, which is we talk about another context partnering.

So holding out for one another's highest good. Yeah. And that does not necessarily mean. Always being nice. It doesn't mean being rude or being unkind, but it, [00:43:00] there's, there, there can be an edge in partnership. And in fact I would say that we, I've seen that. I want to explore one more thing before we start to put the, so for the landing, and I don't wanna out, I wanna out you on, you can out me on the podcast too.

Hey, you can do whatever you want. So. I, I'm, I'm not gonna tell some of the stories that I have, but one of the things that I, that I have, uh, seen and experienced in your impact on people has been in, often in an unusual and unexpected ways, uh, pretty remarkable practice of generosity and. Like significantly.

I would say I've, I've heard stories, I've seen impacts of things and I, I don't wanna go too far down that, but to me it feels like actually what you just said about being a provocateur and about stabbing [00:44:00] people in the front and some of those acts of generosity don't feel like they're disconnected from the same source.

And I don't, and I just. I think that could be an interesting thing 'cause I don't hear people talk about that a lot. Sometimes we do generosity, so that will be well-liked or so that we get something out of it. I don't think that that's what's driving you and, and it seems to me that generosity can actually be, can be one of those scalpels.

And I just, I want to invite, if you will, just to speak to that because I think as a practice it's unique and I think it could be really valuable for our listeners. Well, I, first of all, I appreciate that and I'm extremely humbled that you would. To have that as something that you see in me, and I appreciate that.

I will say that's a, it's a gift I got from my mother, and my mother was a gracious and generous person in spite of all the circumstances of her life. So I, that was nurture for me, for sure. Right. So here's what I think is our investment of time, energy, money in other people. If [00:45:00] we think of the word, we think we, we use the term an interesting, we call money is called currency.

Right? Well, the root of that is current energy. Money is current, it's energy. So I have always looked at money. Uh, the advantage for me is I grew up in poverty, and that's an advantage by the way. And the advantage is, is that when you've stared poverty in the face and you've gone without food, uh, nothing else, not much else scares you.

Okay, so, so money for me is a, is a force. It's a positive opportunity to create energy so I can use the money that I have available to create energy in my life and I can use it to create energy in others. And it's sort of like this thing, when you try to hold it and you reign it in, it actually diminishes, I think.

So what generosity does in the universe is it creates these massive places where positive things attract into. It's almost like this sort of thing in the universe where you just open up space and everything wants to flood [00:46:00] into it. I think that's where, how generosity works. And so whether it's a generous expression of our time, the generous expression of a kind word, if it's the generous expression of doing something you don't have to do for a customer or for somebody else that's generosity.

Uh. Right. Or, or in some cases if, if it's being the seed funder and using money, the money you might have available to take out a barrier or move a person on, and frankly, sometimes get them beyond the excuses that they, they have in their life for not moving forward. You know you the scalpel. Yeah. It's a bit of a scalpel to open up an opportunity.

Right? That's the way I see this thing. And so whenever Pam and I get a chance to be generous with our time and with our money, because money is an interesting thing because we have so much attachment to it. 'cause you're here in North America around the wall. Of course humans do. And I get it. We need money.

We need to do X, Y, z. I get it all. But I've just had this sense, it's like, it's like currency. It's like you [00:47:00] create energetic connection between people and when you give, and I'll give a quick example, and this isn't really, it's not about me, it's, it's just, I think it's an example. About two months ago we were at our local vet and our dog had gone in, had been sick, and we went in and when we went in, there was a lady at the counter.

And clearly she was befuddled. Her animal was in there, had had some real problem, and you could tell it was quite traumatic. She was quite emotional about it. Well, I noticed. When we went to pay, she was in front of me and she was struggling and she, she couldn't remember her pin number and she couldn't actually pay the bill and all this was happening.

And, and, um, she was, she got really flustered and she said, I just need to go outside for a second, uh, you know, help. And she said to the, to, to the staff member at the, the vet helped this gentleman first. She went outside. So I stepped up to the thing, and again, I, I was channeling the spirit of my mom.

Really, I said to, I said to the person [00:48:00] at counter and I looked at Pam and we had this, you know, nonverbal communication and I said, how much was her bill? And I know she said, I don't know, 375 bucks or something. I said, just put it on mine. So we paid the bill. We paid our bill. That bill, we paid her. As I walked outside, Pam and I went and spoke to the lady.

We didn't say anything. We just said, Hey. Sounds like you, you're having a difficult day. I'm sorry that this is going on with the animal. She said, yeah, I've actually been having problems with my memory and I've been struggling. And I said, and I said, Hey, go back in and everything will get taken care of.

And that's all I said. And she went back in and we got in her car and all of a sudden she comes running out, knocking on the window. She goes, what did you do? And I said, I dunno, we paid your bill. She was like, flabbergasted. She's like, no one's ever done that. Like, why would you do that? I said, because it seemed like you needed someone to come and step into your space with some kindness.

And uh, she's like, well, I gotta repay you, I gotta repay. And I said, no, actually [00:49:00] you don't. Why don't you pay it to somebody else if that's what you wanna do. Right. That to me is that, that juices me. Okay. Yeah. You wanna know what juices me. At the end of the day, all the other work I get to do, ah, whatever, what juices me is encountering another human in the moment where it's difficult.

Uh, and actually recognizing that I have the ability to express a positive action. I can actually, I can do something with a little bit of currency. And I could create an energetic exchange of graciousness between myself and my wife and I and this other human, and it can make a difference. It can transform something in the moment.

Yeah, that's the best day. Beautiful. One more question. Zoom Windsor. Yeah. What is your wish for the world? Oh man, that's a big one. And I think about this a lot now that I have grandkids and I wonder about the world that they're gonna have when I'm not here. And my wish for the [00:50:00] world is, is that we can grow in our ability to hold tension.

Huh? Um, that we don't have to all agree that you and I can see the world fundamentally differently, that I can think it's this way. You can think it's that, and that we don't polarize around, uh, everything having to be an and or. Where we can embrace the wisdom and the, and the preciousness of paradox as opposed to contradiction.

Mm-hmm. That, that's my hope for the future. It's not a more homogeneous world, it's a less homogeneous world. With harmony. Huh? Where, where we can have fundamentally look at the world differently, experience it differently, and believe differently. And yet hold wonderful acceptance and appreciation. And consideration for one another in that.

I always loved when in school to take to debate the other side of the argument that I didn't believe in. The reason for that, it made me wiser. [00:51:00] I want a world where, well, you and I can debate fundamentally disagree, hug each other, have a cigar and a scotch, and think it was a great day. That is the world I wanna see.

That's the world I want my grandkids to be part of. I want that to be a generous acceptance of the wonderful diversity of humans. That's my best world. I love it. I love it. We'll leave it there. I will join you in that world. Thank you, Tim, for this time for us. It's been a pleasure as always, to chat with you.

And this is, by the way, for listening. This is like every conversation at Chris or my house with a scotch and a cigar on a Friday night. It's true. It's true. It does happen. It does happen. I love it. Alright, thank you very much, sir. Cheers. Thanks Chris. Thanks for listening in today. If you have not subscribed to the Unmodified podcast yet, do it today.

Do it right now, and please rate and review the show on whatever platform you listen on that would so helpful to help us spread the word. Now [00:52:00] it's time to own what you heard today, get it out of your head and activate it in your life. And when you do, tell me how you are un commodifying yourself and standing out.

For all the right reasons in a very crowded world

mean to me.