AMPLIFIED IMPACT (AI): UNCORKED with IAN HELLER

What if the thing you chase for success is the thing blinding you from meaning? What if your next breakthrough in business has less to do with strategy and more to do with how you see yourself, time, and even what comes after this life?

In this completely unplanned and deeply revealing UNCORKED conversation, Tim Windsor sits down with Ian Heller, a respected leader in the wholesale distribution world who refused to stay predictable. Instead of coasting on decades of experience, Ian made a bold move in his late fifties, risking comfort and capital to build something new. Along the way, he did something even more unexpected. He wrote a science fiction novel with no prior experience, a decision that pulled him into the worlds of physics, consciousness, and the deeper questions most people avoid. What unfolds is not just a business conversation but a collision between AI, entrepreneurship, spirituality, and the human condition.

This episode challenges you to rethink growth, not as something tied to age or stage, but as a choice to stay curious and uncomfortable. It pushes you to consider whether your current path is driven by intention or inertia. As Ian shares how exploring science fiction led him to reexamine belief, purpose, and even life after death, you begin to see how curiosity can quietly become transformation. At the same time, the conversation grounds itself in the realities of business, unpacking how AI is reshaping industries and why hesitation risks irrelevance. Amid all the talk of technology and disruption, a simple yet demanding idea emerges. The real differentiator is still human. The real work is still relational.

By the end of this conversation, you are left with a challenge that is both simple and confronting. You are shaping people more than you think. Every interaction either adds energy or drains it. Every conversation leaves a mark. The question is not whether you are making an impact, but what kind of impact you are amplifying.
 
Tim Windsor
the UNCOMMODiFiED Podcast – Host & Guide
tim@uncommodified.com
https://uncommodified.com/
  
PRODUCERS: Alyne Gagne & Kris MacQueen 
MUSIC BY: https://themacqueens.ca/

Transcript

PLEASE NOTE: UNCOMMODiFiED Podcast episode transcriptions are raw text files and have not been proofed or edited. They are what they are … Happy Reading.

 © UNCOMMODiFiED & TIM WINDSOR

 Hey, my friends. Welcome back to the UNCOMMODiFiED podcast. I'm Tim Windsor, and this could be a totally different conversation. I had prepped a really great intro for this conversation and I was trying to get it all ready and get it all smoothed down. And then I had a two minute conversation with Ian, who's my guest, and I'll introduce him in a second.

And we go, you know what? Hey, why don't we talk about this and this and this. So You know, listeners I like to take a flyer, so this should be great. So first of all, my guest today is Ian Heller. Ian, welcome to the show.

Thanks, Tim. I'm delighted to be here.

Uh, we're gonna have some fun. Now, let me explain how I met Ian. So I have a good friend.

His name is Ralph Suppa, who's been involved in the plumbing and heating industry at a very high level, at a association level in Canada. it's the industry I've worked in for so long, uh, partnered with Ralph in the past. Ralph is now retired, and Ralph said one day to me, Hey, have you ever met Ian Heller?

And I said, no. And he said, you need to meet Ian. And [00:01:00] so Ralph made this connection and Ian and I collided, started talking about all things wholesale distribution. 'cause that's sort of the center of Ian's business world. But there's a lot more complexity to Ian that we're gonna get into tonight and sort of uncork.

Of course, this is an uncorked conversation, Ian. So, um, I'm gonna have a drink. I think you might too. What are you drinking?

I'm drinking, uh, wellbeing IPA, it's the best non-alcoholic IPA that I have tried.

Okay. I'm gonna have to find that one. You know, it's kind of funny, I didn't even know, but I went for a, what's called a near zero. 

And a near zero is a non-alcoholic. I typically don't drink these, but it's really good. It's a non-alcoholic and this is an IPA and they do a really good job with it.

So, um, cheers to you, sir.

Cheers to you, my friend.

Hmm. Actually, you know what? That's quite drinkable.

Yeah, they're very good.

Yeah. They're not bad at all. And they're good. They're, and they're sort of good for your health, I guess.

Yeah. of like. [00:02:00] better. Yeah. I'm driving

Better, better for your health? Not, not good, but better. It's a great marketing line. So, so, so Ian, first of all, let's talk about, a little bit about your day job for a second, and then let's launch into the other things that are, uh, getting in your head these days and where you're, where you're moving into.

So, your day job is in the heart of this wholesale distribution. Industry in North America. Tell me a little bit about how you found your way there and why you're so passionate about that. And then we're gonna push that aside and we're gonna move into some very, uh, different conversations.

Yeah. Cool. So when I was in college, I got a job unloading trucks for a company called Granger in their Fort Collins, Colorado branch. And I was at Granger for 15 years. And when I left, I was the vice president of marketing. So my career, I, I grew up in my career, uh, working for a distributor, and then I've done three other executive jobs like that for different distributors.

The last one was with a construction supplies distributor called White Cap. , And then I left [00:03:00] and I. I have founded, co-founded, actually a company called Distribution Strategy Group. And we are a media and events and software company that serves the wholesale distribution industry. So we have newsletters, uh, we do, we're doing our fourth conference this summer called Applied AI for distributors.

So we're very AI centric. My business partner whom you've met, Jonathan, has a PhD in computer science and ai. And, uh, we have, three software products for distributors. So we are really a, a media company and a software company and events company.

Yeah, so it's awesome. So, let me ask you, so you got all this stuff going on. You've got a great career. It's rather stable. Why in the world do you decide, hey, you know what, I'm gonna take a flyer and we're going to do something crazy because not to be rude, Ian, but you don't look like you're 20 anymore, brother.

I'm, I'm 62 and we started the company when I was 57.

Wow. Amazing.

Yeah. It wasn't smart. Um, I told my wife at the time, if this doesn't work out, I'm [00:04:00] gonna, I'm gonna serve my twilight years as a Walmart greeter.

Oh my gosh.

Uh, we've, we've put a lot of our own money and we're totally self financed. Um, we have, you know, a significant amount of our wealth.

It was really, really a dumb move. I mean, I think it's gonna pay off and it's business is going really well. I mean, we've passed the five year mark and, so we're, we're growing fast. We're, we're a small company. We've got nine people total who. Or, on our payroll and get benefits and stuff like that.

But it's a small company. But still, you know, when, when you're self-finance, it takes a lot of risk tolerance to stick with it.

Absolutely. So, you know, as you made that transition, I mean, what do you love the most about what you do today different to what you did in the past, and what are you learning about yourself in this season that you may not have learned if you didn't take that jump?

Yeah, I tell you, I love the, the freedom of course. I mean, you know, you're, in a way, you [00:05:00] kind of, you know, owning a company is like having a second high maintenance marriage, right? So there is, you know, you're never really off the clock. On the other hand, you are the master of your own time, right? So you get to come, to go as you please in a way.

I can work from anywhere. So we will go sometimes to nice places and work from there. Uh, we had an RV for a while. I know you have one. So I've worked from our RV before. So I like all that. I like the fact that we're really at the center of the industry, right? So we have relationships with distributors and, and trade associations.

And that, of course, that's how I met Ralph, right? The, the gentleman you mentioned who connected us, who's, you know, as I told you by email, a candidate for the world's nicest person every year. Um, and best. And, and so I think, Being able to talk to the whole industry, to analyze the whole industry, to connect to people, with distributors of all sizes and really feel like you're actually helping them succeed is enormously gratifying.

So what are you learning about [00:06:00] Ian? I mean, obviously you know, you've, you know yourself pretty well and from the conversations I've had with you, the convers that had, you obviously are a person who understands who he is and what he wants to be. But you're obviously discovering new things in this, Era of your life and journey. So what are you learning about yourself as you move into this new thing?

Yeah, I've learned that your development. Every way can continue as you get older. So, you know, I, I'm not a particularly well organized person. I'm not proud of that, but I'm not, and I don't have the infrastructure in a small company that I had in a big company. I mean, I had a, you know, 42 people on my team and I could delegate things and really stay pretty strategic.

I can't do that now. And so I have to do a lot of the things myself. Learn how to do things myself that I would never probably have had to learn to do had I stayed in a, in a senior executive type of role. Um, and so I've learned that I've learned, , that, [00:07:00] uh. My capacity for work is greater than I thought.

I mean, sometimes that's a bad thing, but I can, if I, if we're coming down to the wire, you know, for an event or something, and I need to put in two weeks with no breaks, you know, 12, 14 hour days, I can do it. And I don't like to do that, and I don't do it very often, but I, I guess, you know, you hear that when you get older, your, your mind slows down or your body slows down.

I haven't experienced that yet, and I don't think I'm remarkable. I just think I've been put in a situation where I had, have had to do that.

Yeah. Well, you know, let's face it, that change exposes you to a, a bunch of different stressors. Not in a bad way, but it, it gives you a sense of energy and excitement as you build, and you build that capacity and you get to benefit the people that you work with in different ways. So, you know, I feel that same way about my own business.

Uh, you know, I just turned, uh, I just turned 60, you know, maybe half a year ago. And I feel the same way. I feel more energetic today than I have. Uh, in all my life, I

feel, I feel energized for [00:08:00] what I do. I love to do what I do. I'm, I was up at three 30 this morning, partly because I have, I get up early typically, but I had this just baking idea that I've been working on and I woke up, you know, at my age you wake up, you gotta go pee more often than 

usual.

You know how, I 

don't know 

if you, Yeah.

So I get up, but now I can't back to sleep 'cause I got this idea and I gotta get it out. So I get up and I start working and by 5:00 AM I'm. Pumping out something to a bunch of people saying, Hey, here's my thoughts on this. I need you to look at this. And I feel bad 'cause it's like seven 30 in the morning and I'm hunting them down because, because I, 'cause I'm like, I, I've already worked for five hours here, people come on, let's get, get the day going.

Uh, but I, I love, you know, I, I love what I do. I love engaging with people, I love with gauging with businesses. I love, , seeing them come to higher levels of productivity and understanding. I love them finding that unmodified moment for their business or for themselves. It's just a really exciting journey and working for myself in doing this.

I have that same [00:09:00] flexibility and freedom that you were talking about, and it's a gift and I, I never, forget that I don't wanna underappreciate it. There is of course risk and there is risk and there's reward and uh, and when customers come and go, you have a very thin margin to suck up that, that experience.

It's not easy, 

I Yeah. Oh, I'm the same way. I, I completely agree. It's been very, very gratifying.

No, that's amazing. So you and I have something in common, but you have done it at a much better and effective way than I have, so

I'll just admit that right away. So here's what we have in common that I found out in our like three second May, maybe longer conversation before we hit the record button.

So you have authored a book, and so I want to talk about that journey. Well talk about why you did that. I wanna talk about what you wrote about, I wanna talk about what you learned as you did that. you know, I released a book a couple of years ago, and frankly, when I first started running, I was a [00:10:00] terribly shitty writer.

It was not, it was, it was painful actually. And I had to learn to write. I just, uh, I just wrote a second book that's gonna be, uh, it's gonna be released. Probably by the time this episode goes live, it'll, it'll be released. 'cause it'll be released, uh, I think the end of, end of February. So I'm still marching on with that.

But help me understand. You, you're doing this thing, you come from this distribution background. Uh, you start a business that's well in the area of distribution. So of course you write a business book about distribution. Correct.

Not at all. No. 

I wrote, I wrote a science fiction novel.

A science fiction novel. Okay, Ian, what, What got into your brain, man?

So actually, , this started 30 years ago. I was the branch manager for Granger in Billings, Montana. And my father and I had a bit of a contentious relationship, but probably the best weekend we ever spent was when he came and visited me in Billings, Montana. And, he was a history [00:11:00] professor. My undergraduate degree is in history.

So we went out to go see the Battle of the Little Bighorn Monument. in Southern Montana and it was really a vivid experience because the venues or the areas hardly changed since the battle happened. Um, in 1876, I think. Um. And while we were there, this huge storm came over and it was like we were experiencing the ferocity of the battle.

It was just, I had to stop driving on this back road through the monument, and the car was rocking with the wind, and we felt like we were, you know, experiencing the intensity, if not the, the terror of the battle. And then, uh, this was when Indiana Jones and the last crusade came out, and that's a father and son thing with Sean Connery as a father and anyway, so.

It was a really special weekend, and I began thinking, wow, you know, the only thing that's really changed about this battlefield is time, because if, if you could go back 150 years, you could actually watch the battle. You're in the right place. And so I began thinking about that. And so I got this idea about a [00:12:00] reporter who starts getting these videos of historical events that happened long before they ever could have actually been videotaped, and they're mysteriously accurate and. to really, uh, you know, an unrealistic or an un incredible degree of precision. so this reporter starts investigating them. And then of course, he starts to ask, well, who's sending them and who's making them? And how are they making them? And how do they know all this stuff? How are they getting through my network security at my, at my television network?

And so that's the premise of the book, is this reporter starts getting these videos from past events. So we get some from Amelia Earhart, what happened to her at the end and, the tragedy of the Capar Kona, which is this horrific end of World War II tragedy, uh, where thousands of innocent people were killed.

And most people have never heard of it before. 'cause it's kind of buried by the allies. and then the Tulsa Race massacre. So he gets these videos and he he has to figure out why am I getting these, what do I do with them?

okay, so you decide, you, you've got this idea. And now you're gonna start writing. Had, had you written a lot before, had you written any [00:13:00] much else other than in a business context.

I've written a lot for business and no fiction at all.

Okay? so hold on, stop now. Time out here again. What in the world tells you you could do this?

I've always liked good novels, and I just had this sense that I could write one.

So tell me about the process. Tell me the first time you start sitting down and do you put pen to paper? Are you doing this on an iPad? Are you, are you hammering it out on a keyboard? Like functionally, how do you start the journey?

Yeah, so I, I didn't actually plan to start. I was in my, in our house one day. It was June of 2020. It was right after we started this company actually. So I started both these projects at the same time, and I just opened up Word and started writing the first chapter. And I really didn't have a plan for it.

I just thought, you know, I'm gonna get this first chapter down. And then I just kept going. I, I really, I wish I could say that I'd had this, you know, deliberate plan I've been working on it for, no, I just one day started writing, um, and then I realized I [00:14:00] didn't know enough. And so I started reading all these history and physics books to fill in the blanks.

And four years later I had a novel.

so you have a history degree. You start reading these, physics books. You're trying to research deeply for the, for this. Book and try to understand, how this could all work together scientifically from a time perspective. you're, you're looking at quantum phys, you're looking at

all of this 

stuff, trying to figure it all out now for your book.

So I'm always interested when people write, because I've had a couple of writers on before 'em chatted about their projects, and I know for me, in my own journey, interestingly enough, we started our books. Uh, well, I and Earnest started my book. Around the same time. I actually started my book almost three years earlier, but I just couldn't figure out how to get it out and make it work.

And as I did, it was, rough and ready and frankly rather terrible, and I had to

figure out how to write and all the stuff that went with it. It was really hard. But [00:15:00] I, I'm always interested to know the process. So as you get in and you start doing this research, it's obviously for a very practical agenda that you're doing it, you're researching for the book.

But oftentimes what I found is I, when I was doing some research for my own book and looking at things, I had things that I wanted to put in my book, and I actually did. Sometimes that research had a profound effect on me in other ways, in the way

that I looked at myself or the way that I looked at the world that that maybe never, ever really wandered its way into the book, 

Right. 

its way into me.

That's, you're exactly right. It's a great insight and it's, it's a terrific question, and that's exactly what happened. Um, so I began reading all these physics books and there's sort of variations on physics for dummies, right? It's popular authors like science, educators like Brian Green, who I think is, is my favorite of all of them.

And there are many, many good ones. I read about 20 of them. And, so I, I wanted to understand quantum mechanics and general [00:16:00] relativity, and special relativity and, you know, time, time displacement. And, and I, I developed a general grasp of those things, but you can't read much about physics anymore.

Not come across the concept of consciousness, because physics and philosophy have converged over consciousness. And so physics no longer asks, you know, what is the world They're asking why the world and what is consciousness? And it's, it's an unanswered, really. Right. There's really any, any. Particularly intelligent thinker will, will, I think, admit that we don't know what consciousness is. We can debate it, we can have opinions, but we don't really know. So as I was reading about consciousness, so that's diverted me to these, some, some other books about consciousness. I began running across near-death experience data.

And do you know what that is?

Yep.

Okay, so I began watching these YouTube videos. Then I began reading books about near death experiences, just 'cause I was curious about it. ' cause I assumed, I think like most people do, that near death [00:17:00] experiences are just, you know, chemical processes in the brain, creating visions to make you feel more comfortable about dying.

And I no longer believe. I had really, you know, my dad was a minister. In, in addition to me college professor. And so I was raised in kind of a religious home, a very religious home, but I had kind of abandoned it, hadn't been to church in many, many years. and I regained my belief in God by reading about physics and then consciousness, and then near death experiences.

So I think I'm more spiritual than religious. I don't have a church that I go to, but I'm now convinced we survive death. And that I used to think the. The brain was the creator of consciousness, and then I decided it was a receiver of consciousness. Now, I think it's a limiter of consciousness.

I think our consciousness is much larger than we can act on in this realm. And so we have this brain that filters it down to something that makes it useful while we're on earth. And then when we die, [00:18:00] we move on because people have extraordinary near death experiences where they come back knowing things they didn't know when they left.

And it's just two consistent, too widespread, too compelling to think it's chemical processes in the brain anymore, at least for me.

yeah, it's, it is interesting, but what I can't, I can't get my head around yet, and I'm, I, I'm gonna try in this conversation again, if you're listening in listeners, I always say you're listening for a reason. I'm not sure why you're gonna listen to this conversation. You'll figure it out, but, but I know why I'm listening.

It's amazing to me that you can start your journey. Sam, I'm gonna write a science fiction book.

yeah,

Which is all about something that is maybe not here and not real. 

Okay? To us it's otherworldly, it's other timely, it's other planets, it's other, planes. But you find that it leads you towards this really powerful experience where you start having these understandings, it starts releasing [00:19:00] knowledge to you along the way that you begin to synthesize and.

Do you think that you discover these things if you don't start writing a book and go down that path?

I don't know. Prob maybe, but if, if so much later. I mean, I, I've always thought physics is interesting. but I didn't, I mean, I really read it for functional purposes, right? Which was to inform the writing of my book. So if I may have eventually gotten to it, but I would say that's uncertain and there's a good chance I wouldn't have

Huh. that's fascinating. What's the name of the book?

P'S hammer. P-E-P-E-R-U-N apostrophe s hammer.

Okay, tell me where that name comes from.

So Prune was a Slavic God. He's sort of the top of the, of the, of the mythology. , And, uh, he carried a hammer. And the book is about an incoming, extraterrestrial object.

Huh?

coming onto the earth.

Heading to the Earth. So the, the [00:20:00] novel's actually set in Chicago in current day. so the, it's probably as much of an action adventure story as it is a, science fiction book.

But I really wanna get the science right. I actually hired a. PhD candidate in Astrodynamics from the University of Colorado to review the physics with me and, uh, in addition to reading all the books and, it's been, the thing's taken off. I mean, it's, it's really selling well and I'm really pleased with it.

And, uh, I'm working on the sequel now.

Oh, that's awesome, Ian. I love it. And again, if you're listening in the, the great part of this conversation is, uh, when I first met Ian, it was very much in the context of his business world, my business world. And so we had chatted about, Hey, let's have a conversation about distribution, and we might have a little one today.

Who knows what happens, but. But literally, again, just to let full disclosure to let you into the world here, listeners, you know, Ian and I get on and Ian goes, Hey, you know, what are we gonna talk about? I know we're gonna talk about this, but hey, I got a couple ideas. Would you be interested in hearing 'em?

And I said, sure, let's do it. And Ian goes, well hey, let me tell you about this and lemme tell you that. And I'm like, okay, yeah, let's do [00:21:00] it. And that's where the best conversations come from, Ian, for sure. So let me ask you this. Your research in physics, your awakening that you had from a spiritual perspective, uh, which you've defined and, and sort of, of see as this spiritual experience you had, and not necessarily religious or about religion, but a about the spiritual awakening for yourself and understanding.

And you write this book, does it? does this experience begin to bleed back into your other world in any way? And do you start to see are 

they totally separate or do they start to collide and, and morph together somehow?

no. I tell you where the overlap is. one of the consistent. Outcomes of people who have near death experiences, and to be clear, I've not had one, is that they see the world differently after it's over. They have different priorities. They have different values. They're calmer, they worry less. What I've learned is [00:22:00] by watching these videos and reading these books, it's had some of the same effect on me.

Huh.

So I do not worry as much as I used to. I feel like I have a different perspective on why I am here. I'm much more focused on, I'm much calmer. I don't get upset about little things. Um, it's really changed me and my wife notices it and, and she can tell, ' cause I still watch these videos and she can tell when I've been watching one, because it just calms me down and it just gives you a different perspective.

It's like you're seeing your existence in a different context.

Huh. And so you see that as having effect on you, and therefore that effect permeates out into what you're doing in your business with your team. 

It's changing some of the ways that you're approaching your business, which interestingly enough, you founded your business around the same time that this starts happening.

You have this experience. Now you're starting to synthesize that into your day-to-day life [00:23:00] and trying to bring that in. The relationships you have with your customers, the relationships you have with the people that you work with, and you're seeing a net net benefit from that bleed over.

Yeah, I don't, no question about it from my perspective. I mean, I, I, I just don't. Worry. Like I used to, I mean, I was never wrapped with anxiety. It's not my personality, but, you know, I just feel like, you know what? Things are gonna be okay. And also these things that we're doing, they don't have nearly the importance that we sometimes project on them.

And I, I'm not saying I care less, I'm saying I think things are gonna turn out okay. Pretty much no matter what. As long as we put in a good effort.

Yeah.

And, and you know, I, I, I don't know. I, and, and I. Much more tolerant of my own foibles in the foibles of others. And I, I mean, look, we're all. We're all flawed.

I really have worked hard to let go of grudges. Um, and I'm not a hundred percent successful at it, you know, and, um, but I, I think I'm [00:24:00] a much more empathetic person than I was. And I, I look, I mean, you don't wanna be naive in business 'cause people will sometimes take advantage of you. 

Sure. 

but I don't think you should go around suspecting that the next person you meet is gonna do that.

Yeah. 

think that's helpful.

No, that isn't helpful. By the way. I'm gonna drink to that and you might want to as well. Hmm. That's a real good wisdom. I like that. And I love the, I love sort of the way this conversation is finding its way and, and figuring out what it wants to be, which is what I always love about conversations.

So, let me go back and make some connection to this conversation in your business. So. So you write this sci-fi book and now you have This business that's fundamentally in the teeth of this thing called AI and how it's can integrate in the businesses that you consult in from a distribution perspective.

Uh, it's wonderful. It's amazing. It's scaring the shit out of a lot of people. it feels sci-fi, like, , it's got. Trepidation, but it's got [00:25:00] wonder in it. It's got all this stuff. How do you see, and what do you see from your vantage point and from Jonathan's vantage point, your partner and the people you work with, like how do you see this affecting the industries you work in?

And are we heading towards a sci-fi future in these businesses or these business is going to adopt a little bit of this and then, know, settle back into their Jurassic nature?

Yeah, if they do settle back into their Jurassic Nature, it's gonna be a bad outcome for them in the long run. And so I think that we're seeing adoption accelerating, but it's, the industry in general has always been a laggard in terms of technology. But you know, that's why we, we put on this conference, right?

We're trying to promote the education around AI and um, we are seeing a difference. I mean, we've done three of them and the first one, people weren't sure how to spell ai right By the third [00:26:00] one they were talking about, oh, here's what I'm trying. Um, what kind of results are you getting with that?

Now these are very progressive people. If they come to our conference, these are not. You know, backwards thinkers in technology or they wouldn't have signed up to begin with. Um, but I'm, I'm fully expecting this year we're gonna have a lot of conversations with people who have had successful pilots and have rolled them out in a broader way.

It's being implemented. In different places in distribution. So it's, you're seeing a lot on order entry, so automated, quote to order software automated, quote software that, that will take a, you know, anything of a handwritten note to a 500 page submittal and turn it into a quote of ERP SKUs in just a few minutes.

I mean, it's really remarkable software. Um, I think a lot of customer service jobs, inside sales jobs are gonna go first because. AI agents are gonna take over that role, even for phone calls. You're seeing this increasingly, in the enterprise. But, you know, I, I [00:27:00] think the, that's necessary. I mean, this, the way I describe the distribution leaders is, look, I'm really worried about the net impact on jobs in our society, right?

But if you, as a distribution leader don't adopt ai, you're gonna fall so far behind competitors that you're not gonna have a job for anybody. 'cause you're gonna go outta business. And so, yes, as citizens of the world, we need to worry about the larger problem and we need to put pressure on society or politicians, et cetera, to deal with these big issues.

But as business owners, we have to be competitive, and that means at least adopting technology as fast as our competitors do.

Hmm. So you've, you've given us a bit of a window on where people are sort of starting with this and how they're starting to apply it. Would you say that there's a general fear still, or concern primarily, or is that starting to sort of dissipate and people are beginning to say, Hey, I, I can't be afraid of this.

Um, I need to embrace it and I need to find the positive way to approach it. Are they moving through that [00:28:00] doorway?

Yeah, I think business leaders don't have a lot of fear around the business application of ai, 

right? 

they understand that's not, you know, human existence threatening stuff.

Yeah.

Automating my sales calls or my accounts payable or receivable or my warehouse operations isn't gonna pose a threat to, you know, mankind.

that kind of fear is mostly around, you know, well what happens with large language models? And they become so persuasive, they can make you believe anything or, people can use them to invent bio weapons or, I mean, that kind of stuff is sort of outside the business realm. That's where most of the fear is.

The fear in business leaders is mostly. there's a fear of not understanding. I don't understand this technology. So I've, spoken at four conferences in the last few months, and I've asked each audience, how many of you know what agentic AI is out of maybe 700 people that were in those combined audiences, maybe 15 people raise their hands.

And H-N-T-K-I is something you really need to [00:29:00] know about. Um, so I think there's this fear of falling behind and it's. That's well justified right now for a lot of business leaders.

Yeah. So here's what's fascinating to me. First of all, this conversation is fascinating 'cause we're going in all these directions, but your business is quite fascinating to me because on one level, you know, you are tucked deeply into, uh, this AI world , and technology and software and all this yet.

I'll say yet, uh, not, but because that, that would be bad. Yet, when some of your core products, the core service and products that you've developed are actually about putting your finger on the pulse of the human side of your business. You,

Right. Yes. 

guys are a little bit of a conundrum to me,

Yeah, so we have, uh, you're talking about, we've got employee engagement software to measure how happy your employees are. We've got customer engagement software or, or customer experience software. Um, yeah, I think, look, we're [00:30:00] just serving distributors where their needs are. And right now, I mean, look, I think. Well, for all the talk about how AI's gonna displace jobs right now, it's a very competitive market for employers, right? You better be a good employer if you want to attract talent. And so that need is out there. So we're trying to help them become, better employers. It's just like, it's a paradox, right?

Like right now there's this tremendous shortage of truck drivers, but a lot of people don't wanna be truck drivers 'cause autonomous trucks are coming along. So 

Right. 

valley, and it's the same thing with the, with employee engagement, I think.

Yeah. Well, and the, the sort of the. Thought that I have as we're having this conversation is, and even as I've looked at your business, it's really powerful for me because first of all, I love the fact that you use the term paradox. 'cause we tend to use the word contradiction wrongly in

these cases because you know, if we really understand that, that means we gotta choose on one side or the other, the paradox to suggest that there's a truth, tension that we can maintain.

In a sense what I see for your business, which is fascinating, it's like you guys are in this sort of boat and [00:31:00] you have these oars that you're dipping into the both sides of this, vessel into the water. One is the deeply technological AI ore, and then the other is the deeply human ore.

And I, I feel like in some ways that's. You know, maybe you don't think of it that way, but what, what I see in that is it's a wonderful balance, and I also believe it'll, help you and your customers actually navigate straighter because I mean, we all know that, you know, again, I'm not a great.

person in a canoe, I will tell you that. And um, you know, when I canoe, I go like this and my boat goes to the left and then I canoe over here and I go over here. I don't, I can't j stroke, I didn't do anything. Now when I fish in my kayak, I love that. 'cause I, I, I can dip my. Ore in nicely and I can skim across the water.

And that works really well for me because I have a balance and I have this wonderful sort of synergy and synchronicity happening between [00:32:00] this and I'm dipping my OE on both sides and it's keeping me straight. That's what I really find fascinating about your business. 'cause I think that's part of the potential.

Maybe the unique un commodifying factor that you might be bringing. 'cause I think a lot of comp, there's a lot of companies that tend to be on one side of this boat or the other 

Yeah, Yeah, I mean, I, I just hosted a panel discussion and, one of the executives, , he just heard my keynote and he was adamant, we're all about the people. We're not going away from that. And that's fine. I mean, I, in a lot of ways, I hope he's right. I don't think he is, but he might be. Right? I mean, nobody knows the future.

 but I think you can't bet the company either way. You know, you, you really need to be a great employer and draw the best people and implement ai. Uh, you don't need to be maybe aggressively is too strong a word, but at least on a timely basis.

Yeah. No, to, to your [00:33:00] point, but I, so I find that fascinating. I really love all that you, you guys are into, and I, and it's sort of Your business is eclectic and really wonderful, but it's sort of like your own journey. You coming from this background, you decide, you know, not in your twenties, thirties, forties, but in your late fifties, you're gonna, you reinvent and do something.

Put a lot of your own money at risk for the sake of something that you have this vision for. You're starting to see that happen. You, you write this book, you have this experience where you recognize that man, if it wasn't for a hundred something years, you'd be in this place at a moment in time, and you start to realize that maybe the, the veil between time.

How we experience time, which is very, that's a whole nother fascinating 

conversation. cause you know, does time exist? Where does it exist? How 

does it exist? , That's a very fascinating whole discussion.

Um, you know, in some ways I look at time and say time fundamentally exists maybe in my mind other than present moment.

I mean, so [00:34:00] that's kind of interesting. I have this idea that it's a much better metaphor for us to look at time like an hourglass than it would be any other kind of clock or time telling device we have because there's a wonderful finite understanding of future, present, and past and how that all works together.

'cause I do think that we tend to look at time in ways that looks like it's totally replenishable. But, so you're into all of these wonderful things that, that's amazing. So let's tuck into my world quickly for a second. So. I'm in this world that I call unmodified. It came from my own experience in this industry.

You know, consulting with wholesale distribution people, uh, manufacturers, sellers in the plumbing industry and the water industry primarily in North America for the last 30 years. Primarily selling commodities you can buy with. They sell somewhere else from someone else, maybe from cheaper. And I've been all about how do you un commodify that experience, which is often around, it's either around a unique service level or offering, or often around the uniqueness of the people [00:35:00] that contribute to that.

So I'm interested to know, so when you look at sort of where you are at and your business is at, and I'm gonna ask this on a business side, and then I'll ask on a personal side. So the space that you're playing in, is this place that a lot of people are either. RN or want to get in this whole AI world.

So it, it's becoming a little bit ubiquitous that it's becoming, maybe a little bit of the conversation could become easily commodified. So how do you and your team strive to bring a unique, , understanding into the places that you go? Because now we're going to an area where a lot of people are trying to fit in that

conversation. 

Yeah. I think we got a couple of advantages. One is I told you about my business partner and his, you know, PhD in ai, but we also have an addition myself, another longtime operating executive who was at Granger and other places too. So we have, and he's a world class large language model expert. I mean, he, he understands Chachi PT and Perplexity and Claude and Gemini and how to use them all.

so I think [00:36:00] the, the intellectual combination of two people with deep operating backgrounds in distribution, and one person who's a, you know, truly an expert on AI theory and practice, um, that allows us to identify trends, publish content. Conduct interviews, and develop products that have better performance for distributors because they're informed by a unique set of insights.

Hmm, I can see that. And, and I, and I will say about Jonathan, your partner, just a business partner. you know, I've had a chance to hang out with him a couple of times on Zoom recently, which has 

been 

delightful. And, again, for an AI guy, he's deeply human. That, that, 

that man is 

deeply human

and 

de 

pianist. He plays

oh my gosh. The guy is delight. Absolutely delightful to talk to. And you know, and you know, sometimes you know you're in the presence of somebody who's really smart 'cause they always [00:37:00] let you know it. And then you get into the presence of somebody like Jonathan, who is super smart, but wonderfully gracious.

 Uh, that is, uh, that, that's unique quality, which by the way, I think is an un commodifying, uh, thing. 'cause I thoroughly, I've thoroughly enjoyed my conversations and, you know, look, I, I know, I feel like a, a lightweight fighting a heavyweight from a intellectual perspective with, Jonathan, but

he 

never makes me feel, he never makes me feel that way, which I love.

No, he calls me Dr. Heller and he's the one with the PhD. And then he always talks about how, you know, I'm the smart one in the room, and I'm like, this is, this is total nonsense. I mean, I, I don't know whether he not, he believes it, but it's absolutely not true.

And, 

so funny. 

Well, to tell him, 

if

he calls me Dr. WinDor, I'm gonna tell him I'm a proctologist.

I think I'll warn him. I'll warn him 

Warn him 

that I'll say, well, yeah, I am a proctologist, Jonathan. So listen, how about yourself so Ian has been in this journey. You're discovering new things. You're in a [00:38:00] new business, you're, well into it. It's starting to get some legs and getting some life, which is awesome. you wrote this book, you go on this journey of discovery, you're gonna write another one.

 when Ian walks in a room full of people and Ian's bringing his most unmodified unique expression of Ian Heller into that room for the positive benefit of everyone there. What's Ian doing in that moment that, you know, is, is a unique and positive contribution to those conversations?

 Yeah. So I don't know how unique it is, but I can tell you as a result of watching these near death experiences, one of the things that happens is everybody comes back with a life review. They not only watched their life unfold, but they felt the emotions of the people that they interacted with and how they made them feel.

So this is a consistent thing across cultures, across ages, I had a life review and I felt the impact that I had in others, I felt the emotions I caused in them. Hearing that over and over again, Tim made me. [00:39:00] Determined to do a better job making sure that after I interact with someone, they feel better than they did before I interacted with them.

So whether I'm going into the bank or I'm, you know, we're going out to dinner tonight with some friends, I want people to come away. I don't want them to say, oh, that Ian's a nice guy. I want them to, to be happier when they, leave. Than when they arrive. And. So, I mean, look, you can't do that in all situations, but if you focus on it, you can do it a lot more than you would otherwise.

And that's, I don't know how unique that is, but I think it's important.

I think that's unique and I love it. And I think it even contributes to the, business side of the conversation around how employees feel about where they're at. You know, uh, Warren Buffet famously said one time that, you know, happy employees make satisfied customers 

and satisfied customers, make ecstatic shareholders.

So I, you know, again, the ability to contribute to the general happiness and wellbeing of a human, to leave them happier and feeling better about themselves and their life. After you leave to leave a person with more energy at the end of an exchange or more energy at the end of a [00:40:00] day, not depleted when they leave our presence.

I think that's a pretty amazing gift and I think we can all challenge ourselves to get better at that. That would be really a wonderful gift We could give each other

Yeah, it takes constant reminders. I mean, you have to tell yourself, you know, you have to be deliberate and, 

Absolutely. 

but I, I also think it can become a habit.

Yeah, I would definitely agree with that. Listen, Ian, this is a phenomenal conversation and it went in, uh, lots of directions that I wasn't, planning on, which even makes it more delightful. I appreciate, colliding with you. I hope we get a chance to do this in other ways and figure out how to do some things together over the time.

Really appreciate what you're bringing. Appreciate your commitment to this industry, which is an amazing industry in North America. That is, Bringing, uh, you know, capacity and wealth and, bringing goods and services that are well needed in the communities. these businesses, some of them are family businesses for generations that are the backbone of their communities.

It's such a great investment, but also you're moving in new ways. You're gonna [00:41:00] write new books, you're gonna have greater revelation, 

I. 

to be awakened in ways that will have benefit to you and others. What a delightful conversation. Ian, thanks so much for your time.

I, I'm so honored to have been invited on your podcast. Thank you for having me. I, I deeply appreciate it and I also hope we find some ways to do some big things together.

Absolutely. Listen, if somebody wanted to find your book, where do they find it?

It's on Amazon. It's uh, Peru's Hammer, P-E-R-U-N, apostrophe s hammer.

Okay. All right. I'm, I'm gonna sign up for that one. When I'm done here. I'm gonna get me one of those. I like that. And if they wanted to find you and your business, how do they do that, Ian?

Yeah, just go to distribution strategy.com.

Awesome. Listen, uh, thanks for joining me. Listeners, I always say you're listening for a reason. Do me a favor, DM me or email me@timatunmodified.com and let us know. Let me know how this conversation's impacting you. It went in lots of different directions, so there's lots for you to pick and choose from.

Thanks again for listening. Cheers, have a wonderful day.