Do you ever stop to ask yourself, how will I know when I have arrived, that moment where I can be at peace and I have made it? What if THIS is the moment? How would you know? Alcohol has a way of keeping you ANYWHERE but the present moment, which is the only place where true peace can exist. Either we are nostalgic about the subjective past of the "good old days", or terrified of the future yet to be told. Every moment is the opportunity to experience the fruits of your labor, until you step into that place of the compassionate witness, you will never be honouring you, and your life as it is in this moment, alcohol will always win the illusion of better.
Today, you get the change to hear me interview on the Podcast The Evolutionary, by David Knox. My journey evolving past alcohol and my passion for helping Women find freedom on the other side of their desire.
Please check out and Subscribe to David's Amazing Show HERE!
Remember, taking your last sip isn't your first step!
Schedule a time to talk about my 1:1 Coaching mentorship HERE
You can create emotions on demand and find relief from urges and stress using your mind. My Signature Program, The Naturally Sober Woman helps you build the bridge from alcohol running your mind to making it and unimportant part of your life. Click Here to Join Today!
If you are loving this podcast and can feel a new perspective on the horizon, imagine what weekly, private support and accountability would do? Guarantee your success with 1:1 holistic alcohol coaching. Schedule a discovery call here.
Join our On-Line community sanctuary here!
Do you ever stop to ask yourself, how will I know when I have arrived, that moment where I can be at peace and I have made it? What if THIS is the moment? How would you know? Alcohol has a way of keeping you ANYWHERE but the present moment, which is the only place where true peace can exist. Either we are nostalgic about the subjective past of the "good old days", or terrified of the future yet to be told. Every moment is the opportunity to experience the fruits of your labor, until you step into that place of the compassionate witness, you will never be honouring you, and your life as it is in this moment, alcohol will always win the illusion of better.
Today, you get the change to hear me interview on the Podcast The Evolutionary, by David Knox. My journey evolving past alcohol and my passion for helping Women find freedom on the other side of their desire.
Please check out and Subscribe to David's Amazing Show HERE!
Remember, taking your last sip isn't your first step!
Schedule a time to talk about my 1:1 Coaching mentorship HERE
You can create emotions on demand and find relief from urges and stress using your mind. My Signature Program, The Naturally Sober Woman helps you build the bridge from alcohol running your mind to making it and unimportant part of your life. Click Here to Join Today!
If you are loving this podcast and can feel a new perspective on the horizon, imagine what weekly, private support and accountability would do? Guarantee your success with 1:1 holistic alcohol coaching. Schedule a discovery call here.
Join our On-Line community sanctuary here!
Welcome, welcome. My name is Mary Wagstaff. I am a holistic alcohol coach who ended a 20 year relationship with alcohol without labels, counting days or ever making excuses. In this podcast, we will explore my revolutionary approach to getting alcohol out of your way that breaks all the rules, life enhancing tools that make not drinking fun and easy. And the profound and sacred journey that it is to rediscover who you are on the other side of alcohol, it's time to answer the calling of the woman who is ready to be fully embodied, to stop drinking and start living. The show is not a substitution for rehabilitation, medical treatment or advice. So please talk to a medical professional if your alcohol consumption is at risk to your mental or physical health. Now on with the show. Hello, my beautiful listeners, thank you so much for being here for another episode of stop drinking and start living. I know today is your day, I've been really thinking about this concept, a lot of what is that thing that moments that we've been rushing to our entire lives? There is this concept or construct that's created, especially in our Western culture, the next level of getting to this final destination? And how do you know that this moment, isn't it? Well, until you stop to look around, and take it all in and enjoy the fruits of your labour, you will always be missing out on that space that you have arrived in. So just as an invitation for today for yourself, just take a pause and look around at your beautiful life. Look at all of the things that you have overcome all of the things that you've accomplished all the people that love you, all the people that you love, from just an observational, completely judgement free framework. And no, you have arrived, this is the moment. And this is to know that there's never anything outside of yourself. No degree, no certification, no person, no home, that can create for you. What is available to you in this moment. And of course, we can have more vitality, which is what this podcast is all about is about removing the obstacle of alcohol so that you can get to the core of what life is what's really available for you in your life, which is vital living embodiment, really showing up as the fullest expression of who you are. Because that really is what I believe our birthright is right? We have this unwavering consciousness that's the what they call in yoga, the the energy of Shiva, this, this kind of unflinching state of his nearness or being. And then there's the Shakti energy. This is the energy that is manifest. This is the the mother, the MA the matter. This is what is moving through you as you take an inhale. And so imagine that you as you breathe, are breathing with the trees. And as you exhale, you're offering them their next breath. Because that is actually what's happening is there is a symbiotic relationship happening. And when we choose to look past that, and we look for the next concept, or the next thing, bullet points to put on our resume, we're really missing the point and the purpose, which is to be fully human. And we do that by being more uniquely who we are, through embodiment, through embodied emotion, experiencing it and just understand, like really letting go of all of the fear that you need to be anyone other than who you are, how could that possibly be. So that is why in this moment, I am offering you this amazing interview, but it's an interview of myself and the The reason I wanted to put this on the podcast is because it is a different perspective, right. So it's a different way that I represent myself as someone asking me about how I got to where I was. So it's a little bit more of my background that I've actually shared, probably with the audience. And the episode is called evolving past alcohol. And the other reason that I think that this is an important episode is because it's interview by a man named David Knox. He is the host of the podcast, evolutionary, really insightful, expansive evolved work that he's doing. He has thought leaders and thinkers, you know, non judgmental, just really expansive conversations in that kind of Ascension realm of embodying our humaneness, and we talk about that. And he also talks about his relationship with alcohol. So we kind of get this male perspective. So there's a little bit of a Shiva Shakti energy in it, which we all hold, right. And so when we can use the witness consciousness, to understand the emotional self, it becomes less scary. And that's kind of the whole point of all the work that I do is that the mindset is mindfulness. And so when you when mindfulness becomes how you're doing it, not what you're doing, you don't do mindfulness, it's not something else that you can, you know, put on a to do list, the more you practice it, and that might be through, you know, a yoga practice. But the more you practice it in a specific setting, then it does start to shift the framework for everything you do. And that really is the process that I'm talking about. And I exemplify it more in this interview, and he did an amazing job of bringing out the best in me. And so David, I wanted to say thank you so much. And listeners, I would highly recommend if you're really interested in kind of moving past the, you know, the constructs of society, all these preconditions, stories that have been created for us from before we were born, I would definitely check this up. I hope you enjoy the show. And I hope this gives you a better insight into who I am and some of my history. And of course, as always, if you are ready to take the next step in your journey of self discovery on the other side of alcohol, as you know, taking your last sip is not the first step, your mindset does not have to be that really is what coaching is to start is to start to create a new framework. And together we do that step by step. In a very sacred space, we start to explore the emotional body, the sensations that are attached with it, and just start to ask the questions. Do I even want this anymore? And how can I just be aware of my resistance to change? So much of the time in life? We know we don't want to do something anymore. But we're terrified to let that go. Because we've just known about it for so long. So we start to explore inspired possibility that maybe you've just never had an opportunity to explore with ever anyone else and you just can't see it on your own. So go to my website, Mary Wagstaff coach COMM And right there, you'll be able to sign up for a complimentary alignment session and we can meet and chat I love to hear especially from podcast listeners, because I don't know who you are. And that's really my only way to get a chance to, to chat with you. So enjoy. Have a great day and I'll talk to you soon. Bye. Hello and welcome to the evolutionary My name is David Knox and I am still your host, holistic alcohol Coach Mary Wagstaff into the 20 year relationship with alcohol without labels, counting days or ever making excuses. And she is helping her clients to do the same. Through tapping into the privilege and power of the Divine Feminine that lives within. She was able to use her own internal resources to fill the void of connection and longing. She had tried to fill all those years with alcohol, through embodiment, ritual and allowing of emotions. She guides her clients to remember the divine essence of who they are innately and to rise to meet the woman who was born already worthy and complete as she is. Mary Wagstaff, thank you so much for joining us today. Thanks for being on the show. Yeah, I'm so thrilled to be here. I, I this is such an important conversation that you're creating on the podcast. And if it's not felt by your listeners right now, it will be assumed that you know I am feeling a very semantic shift taking place not only in my life, and I'm not even tuning in to the conversations happening in the outer world. But it's like there's something over my shoulder that just is like starting to really unfold. I'm just seeing and feeling and I'm seeing the shift happening in real time. But on a different dimension. So I'm just thrilled that you're talking about it. And you're talking to a bunch of people about it. So it's great. And it's big. And it's global. Right? Like, yeah, you this shift, it's imminent. And, and people who can't feel like, it's almost like there's a bifurcation where there's people who are feeling it, and they're, and they're, they're being pulled by it, and maybe they're in turmoil, and maybe they're not all happy, and you know, optimistic like some of us, but they're still being pulled in that super positive, loving, compassionate unity kind of direction. And then on the other side of that bifurcation, and people that are just really entrenched in the fear, so I think our job is, you know, is to reach over and like, try to, you know, bring as many people over to the other side of that that watershed as possible. Mm hmm. Yeah. Beautiful. I hope so. Yeah. Well, in the work that you're doing, I think is right in line with that, for sure. Yeah. It's been it's been such an amazing unfolding, honestly, it's, it's really interesting to, to look at the way that we do one thing is the way that we do everything, when we really open ourselves up to what's possible. And so changing my relationship to alcohol on a personal level, was the invitation to to go beyond honestly to, to step into really rewriting my story, and then seeing around alcohol initially, but then as it as it continued to unfold, and as I was looking at it from an more of an evolutionary perspective, I'm really seeing that I'm just really interested in going beyond all the stories. And what I find with people is that their relationship to alcohol is a story that's sometimes pre written for them. And that's really what our entire lives look like. Because as we know, human beings are storytellers. And that's how we figured out our existence is through story. And sometimes they're great stories, and they work and we can test them. And sometimes they're really limiting. And then we don't really realise that there's options that there is another way and, and right now I just feel like there's this, there's this invitation to, to really like, wow, could we look at this framework and just completely rewrite it and completely flip it. And I just think it's thrilling. I love surprises, I could go, I could go to my grave with a box unwrapped. And I would be okay with that. So I'm really just diving into the unfolding of the mystery, and I listened to your first episode and something that I think you were, say, speaking to that, really, you know, was that missing piece of the secret and to me lately, it's been, it's always happening, like, when you don't think it's happening, it's happening. And it's happening more when you have faith that it's happening. So that's kind of where I'm at right now with just like really being in the flow of the feminine of the Divine. And yeah, calling that in. So one of the themes that comes up on on the show has already come up on the show a lot and will absolutely continue to run through it is this idea of bringing the sacred feminine back into prominence in our society. And in one of the things I've listened to several of your episodes as well. And one of the things that you mentioned was you're not afraid to talk about the difference, the inherent difference between men and women, those masculine and feminine energies are actually different. And they're necessary, right? And they're in, it's good, and it's in it's fine. We're just way out of balance in our society, right. And you can see what it's done over the last five, 6000 years. And it's brought us to the you know, brink of planetary destruction. You know, that little chestnut. Yeah, so we need to swing that pendulum back aways, and I but at the same time, I appreciate the fact that you're you're not afraid to just go ahead and say, yeah, men and women are different. They they operate differently, they have different kind of a different nature that they're that they're approaching life from. Yeah. And I think Well, I think you kind of hit the nail on the head, as far as, you know, just all of humanity being disconnected from the feminine aspect in general. And I think that so much of the patriarchy if I can throw that word in there is been really this fear of emotion of like innate knowing, and without being able to always test it, and go back and you know, have like a scientific formula to evaluate. And I do think that you can actually test and evaluate emotion. But I really think that that's where it is, it's really moot. It's that we've just we are in a place right now. That's so far away from from our truest sense of who we are and what makes us unique species really is Our ability to experience emotion and a full spectrum of that and become witness to them, right become aware of our emotion. And that to me really is the feminine. And of course men and women just hormonally we do function on different cycles, you know, there's a 20 day cycle more or less for women. And then men are more of a 24 seven cycle. And this is all loose, of course, we know there's a full spectrum of how people identify in the world and how they dive into dive into gender. But I think when we can find a balance of both the feminine and masculine entity and energies that live inside of both of us were really serving our soul self. And the feminine has really been shamed to be more present in the world, because I because it doesn't have that finite, that finite ability to test and they're in, it's not like this power over. It's a it's a power with, it's a flow, it's the, it's the energy that runs the planet, right. And so I just feel like women also in their own in their own nature, kind of working towards status and having wanting to live into a world where they can they can be equal to men have had to almost fight against one another. And now we're coming back against to realise that that we can have all of it that the feminine energies can be fully expressed more as a power and pleasure and a privilege because we can actually tune into a deeper sense of knowing, really, before we even have to take action. And you talked about that, too, in your first episode, that the action is almost the is the last piece and not even the most important piece of creating a life that we love. So yeah, I'm just all about the feminine, really coming full force for all of us to really just be our own best friends. That motherly compassion that we need, creating community and union and an innate knowing of trust in the self. And not so much what's important to the other. Yeah, that's beautiful. And, obviously, um, you know, anyone who's been working with any semblance of the law of attraction, you know, if you get into it fairly enough, you're gonna find that your ability to create from your mind from your thoughts alone, you can do that. But that's usually laced with a lot of repercussions, right? Because it's, it's a, it's strictly intellectual, like focus thing. If you can bring your heart and your mind into coherence, right, and bring your emotions into it and create from the heart space, then you're creating with harmony automatically built into your creation. So you're not creating all of these, these repercussions from your creation, right? And so that that's, again speaks to the need that the on the microcosm as well as on the macrocosm to be able to bring that the sacred feminine back in and come into alignment in our societies, because that's what harmony is, right. And that will bring us back into harmony with each other and with the planet. And that's going to happen in the coming decades. And maybe it's going to start in a starts by the way, right now. 2020 is a big, big year. Mm hmm. Yes, following on, we got a lot of stuff. A lot of I mean, there's gonna be some some rapids, but we're, you know, there's good stuff on the other side of it, for sure. I think it's great. I'm just in such a state of abundance and allowing right now. And of course, there's always, you know, blessings and prayers to people who are, you know, not doing great and who have been sick throughout this whole thing or lost their lives or lost loved ones. Of course, we, we don't bypass any of that. But the bigger knowing is that there might be a different purpose and we've all been led to believe here, you know, that, that the that the call of just all the work all the time and all of the creation and creating new things, you know, that maybe, maybe there's maybe there's less efforting that really needs to take place, and there's a little bit more lightness, I was just I've been really tuning in to just kind of like this, like, white energy lately. And I know that sounds really, you know, kind of not grounded, but it's just I feel like when there's a heaviness and it's hard and you're pushing and that comes with a mind, I just think you're doing it wrong. And I've done it before when I've been trying, you know, tuning into entrepreneurship and growing a coaching business. I really was in that mind, like how can I create the thoughts that are going to drive the action, and I was missing that piece of, of the emotion of the feminine of alignment and it has to come from the place of your soul self in that place. A lighter place and it connects you with that interweaving the tapestry of all that's happening around us all the time. And so yeah, they're nice. I really think that that tuning out sometimes of the outer noise, it's like, if you can't hear yourself think and you don't even know what your personal truths are. And I find this as the biggest piece, when it comes to shifting your relationship with alcohol or any other habit that's not serving you is you really have to have a strong sense of self of, you know, not from a story that you've created either, but from a really deep knowing. And sometimes the first step is to really shut down the noise, even if it's for a few days, which means like, not watching the news and not being on social media, and really not even sometimes just fictional entertainment to I find can be very, very distracting for the subconscious. And we have to really go deep to see what are our real, what are the values we really want to live into and exemplify. And then from there, we can kind of pick and choose what sounds interesting. And we then will feel into that alignment of other information that's coming in like, Oh, yeah, wow, that really connects with with where I'm at. But until you kind of can clear the clutter and alcohol being one of those things. It's really just a veil or a mask, of kind of this fake reality. It's just, it's virtually impossible to fine tune and become that vessel for creativity. But I just see more and more. I mean, obviously, we've seen that there's a big movement of the sober, curious movement, and people tuning into that more conscious, you know, dance movements, and all of the things that are out there of just how can we refine this beautiful experience that we're having, because it's the subtlety of the experience, connection with life, that's the most powerful. And we live in a big, a big box world, you know, more better concentrated. That's why alcohol is just like, it's so hard for people because it's so concentrated, and it's such a heavy hitting reward at that pleasure centre, that it's like, well, how do I, you know, how do I get pleasure from, you know, an essential oil, you know, or grass? Or Yeah, any of the things right? And so, but when you when you make this, when you start to see it, and you make the switch? It's like, it's kind of like it was always there hiding in plain sight. I mean, you just look out the window. And wow, you know, this existence. And this is kind of a utopia like that, how it all has meshed so perfectly on this ball floating around, it's like, it's pretty awesome to have to write like you're saying the first you have to take your mind back, you have to take yourself back. Right? Absolutely. Just doing my second solo cast haven't been, it'll be out before this one. So and notice talking about exactly that, that, that we're we're energetic configurations that have have the privilege of being able to create other energetic configurations that can drop down into manifestation. But if we don't know that, we're still doing it, and what if we don't know it, and then what's creating our energetic configurations? Well, we're still doing it, but we're not doing it with intention. And so then it's either chaos, right? Either it's chaotic and kind of random, or worse yet, it's someone else's agenda. So we're getting our energies hijacked and used for someone else's agenda, which, by the way, the media knows very well how this goes. And they and they use it very purposely. And so the idea is, and I and I heard you say something very similar to this in one of your first podcasts, your solar casts, and my turn for it is you have to curate your own consumption, and everything that you eat, drink, say, listen to every all your screentime every conversation you have the person standing next to you in line at the grocery store, every eye contact, everything, every movie that you watch, everything is consumption. And you have to be really intentional about what you let into this because it is making you right it's because we're constantly unfoldment then the stuff we take in is creating us and then we radiate out right and so for just just bouncing around like an amoeba we're looking at every screen that it's offered offers us something and watching every stupid show and and like filling our brain with like violent movies. I actually, I love movies. I love movies, but I stopped watching violent movies because they were impacting me so deeply. right but but like you're saying, stop first take some time. And like clear out and like learn what it means to actually like take the reins of your own consumption. Mm hmm. I love that a subset so beautifully said to create your own consumption. curate your own consumption. Sorry, I Yeah, I do. I think when we're working from a place of intention, so if you want to make real change in your life, and you're like, so, alcohol, for example, I really want to quit drinking alcohol Change My Relationship to alcohol, it's if the way that you're focused, if you're, if the way you're focusing your attention has no implications of your intention behind it, then you're just missing out and you're wasting all of your precious energy. I mean, our attention is, is everything, it's our time, you know, our time energy, the way we even spend money, like all of it. And so if you're, if it's if it's not curated, and I just love that term, then then it's essentially you're just wasting it and then forget about living with intention or purpose. So yeah, I mean, and that's why it's just so challenging for so many people to make big change. And they feel like it's the hardest thing. And it's, you know, white knuckling willpower. And what I found in the work that I do is that it doesn't have to be like that. And of course, when it comes to, when it comes to alcohol, and other substances of abuse, there's a spectrum. And so everyone has their own challenges. And, you know, it goes far beyond for people into their history, but really, the first places you have to really see what you have control over, and then hone in on that, first, the places where it's a little bit easier. You know, I think it's pretty easy to turn off the TV at night, and I know people can be addicted to that, but right there, that's going to give you that time to start to look inward. So it's like, well, instead of drinking, what can I do that's different with my time not to zone out on Netflix, you know, it's about expansion and going beyond and that's why my podcast is stopped drinking and start living. It's not stopped drinking and binge on Netflix, you know, like, it's, it's like, come on we there's more there. And I think when people have that calling of this isn't really working for me anymore, because it's just not serving my life. And I'm feeling like crap. That's that little voice that's that inkling that's that that deep soul self that is saying, Knock knock. Like I'm waiting to show like, I'm waiting to live in this body with you. And I was just talking to someone actually about like, the process of blacking out or it was an interview I did or just really not remember it. Well. Yeah, yeah, not remembering the evening. And she was kind of like, I feel I feel like it was my my highest self. Just checking out, you know, your body is moving around in such a scary thing, when you kind of think about like, this, this weird, like hologram of yourself just moving around, and then yourself just as like, you know, I'm out. I'm not gonna even be around for this. And it's, it's just startling, really, when you think about that concept of blacking out. And so when you remove, you know, substance, that higher self and it's almost like you have because you have the two the two extremes to work with. It's like, the vessel of creativity. And channel that you become, once things get recalibrated is just so blown wide open, if you allow it to be. So there's like, you know, there's the deprivation piece of why can't I do this, or there's the freedom piece of, oh, my goodness thing, you know, thank God, I'm on the other side of this. So now I can really live into the life that I meant to live into. And so there's, you know, there's a couple ways to quit drinking. And I choose the latter inspired piece, as opposed to depravations, though. So I want to go back and talk a little bit about your path. We're talking specifically about your programme your your five revolutionary shifts to change or change your relationship to alcohol and your podcast and the coaching that you do around that. And I'm excited to focus on that. But if you do other things, and you've done a lot of things, and a lot of it, I don't know. So I'm interested a little bit about your path and some of the challenges that you've overcome. And also I just want to say that one of the things that struck me about your process before we get into it before I before it slips my mind, I just want to say that I thought it was really interesting that you really focus on changing people's relationship with alcohol and not just changing their engagement with it. And I feel like a lot of people like they just try to change their engagement with it. And they do that but then it's never goes it's always a struggle because the relationship didn't actually change. There's still there's still an alcoholic there's still they still feel like they still want to go and dive into that bottle or whatever. Yeah, yeah, I kind of I think the best metaphor is really isn't is a relationship of a person like an ex lover. You know, you you were with someone It was a great time you obviously hit it off for a reason and you're hanging out and then things start to crumble. You know, you grow they grow whatever happens or there's like some distrust you Do the same like on any number of things, there's a reason that you break up, right? There might be a few texts after that, or whatever, like, you might kind of see them over there. And you're like, oh, and like, so it's and then you go home, you go back to your hometown where that person lives. And you see them again, and you reminisce, and you're like, Oh, you know, that was such a nice time. But you've got a family, you've got kids, you've got the whole thing and your other town where you live now, and you don't go back, because you know why you left. And the tricky thing about alcohol is, sometimes it's hard to remember why you left for whatever reason, The pleasure is like, you could just create these stories. That's why I say your relationship has recreate this story, all the ways that alcohol is interwoven into your life, you know, like, the Mexico vacation after you go for a hike. I mean, this is me, you know, happy hour with your friends, Christmas, like all of the things. And so you've created this entire framework for this one substance. And you really have to believe into a new possibility that all of those things are going to be just as amazing and even more so without it. And they are because nothing actually changes when you're drinking. Besides your ability to a lot of times, handle a situation better, like if a shitty situation was shitty, it's going to be shitty. And usually alcohol just makes it so you don't care. Right? If it was never fun, it was never fun to begin with. And then and it lowers your inhibitions. So you're not you're just not experiencing the fullness of even you know, like I say, like this beautiful Mexico sunset isn't better with a margarita, but you think it is because you've, you know, you've conditioned your subconscious brain to get a huge dopamine rush. And so I think that the that piece about changing a relationship is it's like, you can't be the strict parent that just says, No, you can't, you have to be that compassionate mother that's like, you know what, maybe just, we're just gonna set that down for today, and just not today. Because if you come at it with like this, this really the man was like, really hard, masculine energy of like, come on, man, get your shit together. It just doesn't stick, it doesn't work. And you want to rebel against that every time. So it's really a beautiful process of the self of understanding who you are. And I think so many other methods give alcohol, so much more power than it deserves. And that's why my my whole programme, and the work I do is not about shaming alcohol. Although I think that there's a lot of things about the way that it is in our culture in our society, and really, you know, looked at and celebrated. But that's like a whole nother thing. I'm like, I'm done with it. Let's be done with it. Let's focus on the inside and give yourself Take your power back because you are a powerful being and the alcohol just sits there. Alcohol doesn't do anything. It's going to be there. People are going to drink it, people aren't going to drink it, people are going to sell it to you and make it look like a vacation all the time. And so, so yeah. Okay. Yeah. And we'll get into that. And just to give you a preview, I have, yeah, a very deep relationship, a long history with alcohol. So I'm very well qualified to talk about this. But, um, tell us a little bit about your path to get here. Um, well, um, I did grow up in a family where alcohol was a normal thing. So like I said, you know, like I said earlier, that it's kind of a story created for you before you're born that I didn't really ever see adults in a way that weren't drinking and it wasn't abusive, but it was always present. And so I never really saw what another version of celebration was necessarily like, there was a time when my mother was single, where she wasn't drinking. But even like people she had dated, and my father was owned a couple of bars and was a bartender. I mean, I was a bartender for years. And I was always I was in the service industry for many years. So it was just kind of there and it was very much part of my story. And I started well, I started on my spiritual journey. The day I was born, I definitely have been a little bit off the beaten path my entire life and kind of had a solo journey for much of for much of it. And then at the age of 18, I discovered the practice of yoga and my breath. And I had always really been fascinated by spirituality. I grew up in a Catholic household, lightly liberal Catholics, if you can imagine. And I always love the ritual of going to church. I just I absolutely loved it. I loved praying I thought it was so cool. And but the religious the the energy behind the Catholic Church was just so dull and awful to me, I'm like, this is the celebration of life. This is not this is not fun. So, when I discovered the practice of yoga and my breath, I was just like, immediately, like, Oh my gosh, this is it. This is like, where my existential despair is kind of answered. And I was always very much connected to nature and, and now reflecting back seeing how I really loved doing ritual and nature that I didn't realise I was doing as a young person. But being that I was always kind of a very independent woman, young woman, and kind of a solo journeyer, I think I really attached to alcohol first, as a source of empowerment, really to be like I can, you know, it helped me show up in places by myself, and to have conversations and, you know, just like show up at the bar and be there, you know, and I, it was kind of more of this masculine energy. And so I travelled a lot as a younger person, too. And it was always just like, kind of a companion for me, to be honest, that it was always there. I always knew what to expect. And yeah, and so it was, it was a long and but at the same time, it was kind of a parallel life of 20 years of yoga and alcohol. And then I studied more of mindfulness practices, and I was guide, teaching and guiding people. And so it was kind of, by day, I was really tuning into to this deep connection. And then by night, I was kind of tuning out. But it's so weird. And I still am exploring this honestly, that there was part of that. And, you know, there was other recreational drug use, and experimentation with other things as well. And you know, there's, I feel differently about all of them, they don't all have the same relationship that alcohol did. Alcohol, in retrospect, is one of those things that I feel like never served my life at all. And now that I'm looking back at it, and but there was some way that I feel like I thought it was connecting me deeper. And I don't know if it was because it was tuning me out of the noise of the BS that I didn't buy, or what it was, but or just like letting me feel a little bit more free in this world or in my body. But there were some parallels for me. And I guess, also and now. And like, I guess, in retrospect, there was a spiritual void, there was something that I was missing all of those years of studying my yoga practice and mindfulness that I was looking for. And that's really where the Divine Feminine piece came in. And I think all those years through that companionship, it was a part of myself that I didn't know and I hadn't had access to, because I just wasn't taught who that was, or what that was the feminine qualities of me that now are my most valued companion. It's kind of where I reached to, through ceremony, through dance through ritual. And through just like hanging out with myself and like loving myself in a really deep way. That I think that I was always kind of externally searching for that in something else, because I wasn't finding it because there was no place to find it. But inside that I really looked to alcohol for that. And I just saw, I would just kind of forget about it. But the goddess called I answered, and here I am now. Thank you for that. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm excited to talk about the show and the process. Because, you know, I've I've found as I've been on this very interesting exploration journey in my life, that, especially in the last say, four or five years is I've really kind of woken up from some of my slumber that some of the things, some of the processes that people are talking about to get to a certain place, I look back, I look at it, and I go, Oh, God, that makes so much sense. If I would have known that. I wouldn't have had to spend decades figuring it out the hard way, which I did with alcohol and, and I i still drink in by that. I mean, I've had about it one drink in the last two months. But that's, you know, I was I was that super alcohol actually served a purpose for me, while almost killing me simultaneously, it gave me a social outlet. It gave me a way to go out and learn how to be sociable. It was a definitely a crutch, but it was also an inroad. You know, it was also a platform upon which I was able to connect with people as a, as a team, who was very shy and very mellow and you know, really had very few friends and so I got into partying and then I learned how to make friends through partying. That was all it did for me. And then seniors, you know, I also blacked out all of the time. and drove drunk, it was like a hat. It was like a hobby to drive drunk in those days. But, you know, by then, by the time it had served its purpose for me, I was just been in the habit of doing it. Right. And so that was, you know, then it's still the platform for all of your friendships and, and your social life. And so that it kind of was that for me through my 20s into my 30s. And then in the family life, I'm not as much partying, but then, you know, working a corporate job that has zero soul at all, and coming home to a family life that I adored, but also was way more boring than, than that the life I had before. And so you know, two, three cocktails poured with the heavy hand every night. And then that was way down from what I did my 20s right. And so, my 30s, realising that something you were saying, and I think your first episode low caste had to do with just actually just stop and pay attention to what happens when you have that drink. And I was noticing, and you described it perfectly. That first drink, especially an empty stomach, you get a euphoria and a bubbliness, and all that stuff. And that's the end of the of the good stuff. Right? You it just after about a half an hour later, that's gone. If you keep drinking, I found that because most people their health isn't just naturally getting better through their 30s. Right, especially because I was on the American diet like everyone else, it took me a while to figure that one out and go Whole Foods plant based. Yes, that is an advertisement for everyone out there. It changed my life completely. But you know, my when your health isn't getting better, and you're still drinking, and then you start to notice that you don't really get that high drunk anymore. You just get slow and stupid and sleepy. And then your hangovers get worse too. So now I'm slow, stupid, sleepy and hungover. And it absolutely I started really paying attention to it was not increasing my fun quotient alone. And so I kind of very slowly had to let it go and change my relationship with it. And now, it hasn't served me and, and holding it up to that. Looking at it through that lens or that question? Is this in line with what I'm intending to do with my life with my, my purpose with, with what I actually want for me and the people around me? And what I want to create? And if the answer is no. And one of the things that I want to create is fun, like balls out abject, blissful, ecstatic fun. And it doesn't even really do that. But you know, if, if I'm in a situation like once in a blue moon and I and it really feels right to have a few cocktails and get a buzz and fine, I'll do it. But you know, it's, it's really got to pay off. I mean, it's got to be a high payoff there. Otherwise, you got to let it go. My point is, is that if I wasn't found, you know, this kind of philosophy in a long time ago, then it would have been so much easier. Well, you might not have been open to it at the time now, you know, right. You know, your observation, you know, observing myself while I'm drinking, why would I do that I want to check out and you know, I think that's that but and congratulations. I think that that's so awesome to there's never, you're never too late, there's always life to be exploring. And I mean, this is the work that you're doing to write is like, what's possible of get, you know, I love that you add sexy into your, into your podcast description, because it's just like, yeah, like life is sexy. And it's and I you know, that big romance part of life that's not just with intimacy and another person like with that's with yourself, that's with nature that's with in a pool of water and splashing around like, yeah, like, let's get sexy, you know, I mean, and I think that we, we just that, again, I will come back to the emotional piece of it. It's so shut off from us. We're not taught at a young age about emotional intelligence, how to access those parts of ourselves, early on, have a little bit of self awareness, so that when you are young, you can, you know, figure out how to navigate in social situations, by being who you are uniquely, and not by tuning out and I really do see a shift in younger generations now of really tapping into a fuller expression, you know, even through sexuality, but through vulnerability and music and a lot of sober Party, which is just awesome. And that's what that was one of my taglines earlier on and i think it's it's still in the podcast somewhere is like, how can we throw a better party, you know, and I just think, if the booze like, I've always been a party girl. I am a facilitator. I am not stopping the party. It was just my birthday this weekend. We had I had like the best birthday in quarantine ever. We were at there was like a music festival online. We went to a ecstatic dance line. And we just like we're partying around the house, it was great. And so I was like, if booze can beused cannot throw a better party than I can guarantee it. And as we know, there's so much joy and ecstasy in life. And it's pushing through a little bit of vulnerability to get there. But once you do, you're just like, Oh, yeah, like this is actually really where it's at. Because I can feel it. I'm not numb to it. It's changing me on every level of my body, my cellular structure, and then I'm tuning into more alignment with the cosmic energy and the universal energies. And it's like, then it's just, you're just unstoppable at that point. So, yeah, if you are really having an ecstatic experience, Mm hmm. You really want to be present for that shit. You remember it, you really want to soak it up, right? And alcohol doesn't do that. All it does for people is it makes them a little less inhibited, so that they can have an experience that they wouldn't already have. So let's just do the work so that we can become that in an uninhibited, yeah. So that we can have that experience and really be present with it and really, like remember it and cherish it. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, I think for a lot of people, it's very daunting at first, because it's not the traditional way that a lot of people, especially in our culture, are living their lives. And so if you're only tuning into it, like a little bit here and there, but when you do kind of cross this threshold, you, you start to see it more subtly. And all you do, and I have a practice I use called everyday ritual, where not only are you spending time kind of in ritual and ceremony with yourself through meditation or whatever other means you have, but where you're taking a little bit of sacred pause in the mundane and making it really magical, because literally, everything we do is magical, if you allow it to be the fact that we're talking through, you know, this, this capacity right now, and, and so it's just tuning into the subtleties. But you it does take a little bit of a step back, because your subtleties have gotten, like I said, so kind of whitewashed by the concentrated reward of alcohol, and just the tuning out of all the other things outside of yourself that you're tuning into as important of like, Oh, I need to be doing more of this, I should be doing that I should be scared, I should be listening. I you know, all of these things. And it's like, so refining that. But if you if you put the work in, you focus your attention with your intention. It doesn't take as long as it doesn't take as long to kind of hone it back in as it did to get there. You know, I feel like I've done an exponential amount of work in the last year. That is far outweighs the 20 years, like I don't even know if I wasn't drinking, if I would be in this place. So. But it was through intention and focused attention that really got me to the place where I feel like I'm at right now. I just feel I feel amazing about my life. So that's beautiful. Yeah, we're kind of bouncing around a little bit. But I wanted to ask you, so I know you through my partner Katie. She she's met you three times she and one of the things that she did was she she went on an urban yoga hike with you as and and then you guys read a networking event together. And then she went out 20 or four minutes ceremonies. And so you do a lot of stuff. Or you've done a lot of stuff. Yeah. So what are the things you involved in now? Well, I do want to presume I do love all I, I was saying and quarantined, I was like, I'm really glad I'm not amazing at follow through. And that was kind of just a joke. Because I have a little I have little hobbies all over the place. And something's Interesting, interesting to me, and I pursue it. And then I always, you know, I just I'm always kind of in a different phase. And so you know, if it feels like I want to play my ukulele, then I have that to pick up and play. But yes, facilitating women's empowerment is definitely part of the path that I'm on right now. And really, changing my relationship to alcohol has helped me really step into more of a leadership role. I call my past devotional leadership because it really comes from a spiritual, spiritual background. And the idea of the moon circles are really just a way to bring women together in on a kind of a level playing field where we can hold space for one another, and create confidentiality so that we can all be seen and heard in a way that feels actually authentic and genuine. And you were saying, you know, when you have relationships sometimes and that are based around alcohol, there's always kind of a little bit of a barrier of how deep you go. I mean, there's always exceptions, but so all of the events are, you know, you don't have to be a sober person to come but they are alcohol free. Just so because there's first of all a level of sacredness. But then also just to be present with, you know how deep you can go. And then the moon really, I really dove deep into moon medicine and Moon magic. I mean, I've always felt the presence of Luna and her power as our closest celestial sister. But is really the representation as we know, the the lunar cycle is the same as the as a woman cycle and the implications, I mean, we used to, you know, art Time, time, the month by the moon, and the implications of what that is, is not so much of how the actual physical moon affects us, but how she is a representation of the inner, the inner cycles of the of the feminine. And that through phases, we are still whole and holy unto ourselves. So she is just really this beautiful representation of, you know, no matter what phase we're in, throughout our cycle throughout those 28 days, and then of course, we can add on the layer of the earth seasons, but that it's an expression of who we are. And it's still beautiful. I mean, you look up at the moon, and you can't help but just be taken over by her her luminous beauty. And it's really an invitation for me to bring a community of women together, so that they can see that in themselves. And it's amazing when you see women sharing, it's just a reflection of one another at a different phase. And so it's so beautiful. And, you know, for me, I had kind of hid the reason I started, it's called Sisters of the moon. The reason that I had started this was because I didn't have a close network of women ever in my adult life, I'd had a couple close friends, I was in the service industry. And then I was in real estate for a while. And throughout all of my yoga teaching, and I was teaching physical, other types of physical fitness as well. I honestly was very shameful of my my party lifestyle. And so I was really hesitant to get close to a lot of the more mindful spiritual people because I was afraid of being kind of like found out. And then once I shut that all down, and I decided like enough's enough, and I started really changing. Wanting to change my relationship with alcohol, I was also at the same time had this kind of spiritual awakening and was just ready to go out and be fully myself. And I didn't and I knew that all of those stories I was telling myself were Bs, like, it doesn't matter what community you go in, there's always going to be people that have addictions, or you know, neuroses or whatever they are. And so in really, in that community, I would have been fully more fully supported than I, you know, then I realised at the time, but so yeah, I had wanted to create a network of sisterhood, because I really feel like the community piece of sharing deep wisdom into one another. And really finding that peace of remembering is so so important for the path for our path of, of enlightenment and growth, is just to have a place where we can be ourselves and the fullest expression of who you are. And this really, like playful and fierce and empowered and independent way and all of these facets that women have inside of them that we just don't fully express because it's too much of this or it's not enough of that, and that shifts over man. So I'm just inviting women to come together and we, you know, I love I think the practice of ritual is so important and actually like, you know, doing the full out the full out circle and calling in who whatever other energies want to show up for benevolence, protection, and then and then we share and we win, we listen. And that's so so important to be heard and to be seen. And for active listening, active listening is such a huge part of growth of recognising the other rather than just kind of waiting to, you know, finish a sentence. So, so yeah, that's the piece of it. And the urban yoga hike was something amazing I did in Portland at Mount Tabor. And now that I'm out in the output area, I have some other amazing activities that will be coming up as soon as you know, I can invite people over. But yeah, connecting with nature and movement is was another part of my huge transformation of that subtlety of just watching nature unfold and the urban yoga. Hi, Katie was only one I think it was just her and I on that day. But what was really cool about that was it was Airbnb experience. And so it was bringing people from all over the world into this one place to connect, body and move like people that would never have come together before. And so we always think like through drinking, it's a way that we can come together and connect while I was doing this experience through nature and movement and ritual that was connecting people of all walks of life from all over the world. And by the end of the experience, they're sharing and talking And for me, that was really the biggest the coolest part of urban yoga hike was seeing people that would never have probably met and under normal circumstances, share this common experience outside of, you know, a bar, basically. So exciting to be in this age where there are so many other ways they come together, right? Yeah, to go to a bar, you don't have to get drunk with people. You can do all kinds of awesome things that include really ecstatic stuff. Right? Yeah, it's awesome. And, and the other thing that I'm more I'm working on right now is my partner and I bought a piece of land in Rhododendron, Oregon at the foothills of Mount Hood. And it's absolutely gorgeous out here. And we are just getting the property ready. We're, she's kind of coming alive to us. We were here in the dead of winter. So now that it's spring, we're just kind of seeing how everything is revealing itself and just taking our time a little bit not not coming at it from the feminine and not like just like, oh, we're gonna take this out and put this out. But just seeing the process of how what's naturally here already, and how we can just kind of interweave our intentions, but we'll be inviting people out for, for workshops, and, you know, and accommodations and all those things and the really near future again, as soon as it's safe for us to hold hands again. That's super exciting. Yeah. And Katie did come out there for the Sara Lee, and she said she absolutely loved it. And the walk down to the river was and chanting and all of that stuff. Yeah. Hey, so that's, if you don't mind, can we just like walk through your five? Your five sheriff's? Yeah, absolutely. I this five shifts approach. It was really something that was really interesting, when I kind of started to break down the process of, wow, how did I really rewrite my relationship with alcohol because I had obviously taken a lot of breaks beforehand, and they didn't really stick. And so yes, I will walk you through the five shifts approach. So the first shift is to start now, I always say indecision is the killer of dreams. And the starting now piece just means start looking at your relationship with alcohol and making the decision to actually take an active role in it, instead of just being like, you know, this is a problem and then forgetting about it, like you're starting now you're gonna look at it. So whether you're drinking or not drinking, it doesn't matter. You're simply starting now you're making that intention for yourself that I want to see how I can change this. And the other piece of start now too, is take that daily mind drama off of your plate. So the biggest shift for me was I had that cognitive cognitive dissonance. Am I going to drink tonight? I'm not going to drink tonight. No, but I really want to drink tonight. Am I going to drink? What am I going to drink. And it's just like, it takes up so much of your friggin time. And so really, the big shift for me was, and I work with my clients on is that, you know, clearly you don't want this, it's not happening spontaneous. So just take it off of your plate and come at it from a place of compassion. If you drink, I know that you're gonna drink, say, I'm gonna drink and I'm going to be okay, with every single consequence that comes along with it. And I'm not gonna even it's not even going to be a question, I'm just taking this conversation out of my head. So that was that, like, I'm just gonna drink or I'm not gonna drink. And that that really makes a huge difference. Because it's just like fighting with a kid, you know, you tell it you human beings, we always want to do what we can what we're told not to do, right. So as soon as you kind of take that option out, it really lightens up your load a little bit. And then following into that, the next shift is to ditch the judgement and become the witness. And so it's that ability to move out of the judgement piece of this is good or bad. And we just simply start to observe, which is our, as our superpower, as human beings is to kind of move into that third party place to just watch, just kind of even watching yourself, I'm pouring a drink, like kind of starting to, to monologue the process. And then that gives you instead of it being this knee jerk kind of habitual autopilot, you start to slow the process down. And this is the way I really feel like these, this process really works for anything. And if you start to slow something down enough, where you can just start to see the intricacies of it, then you kind of start to see on another level maybe emotionally how you're showing up. And so you just observing just becoming the witness to the process. And then the third shift is taking a little bit deeper and I call it the curious observer. So where you're starting to question it, like do I even want this drink right now that was something for so many people out there at this stage of their health when they're drinking, and they're questioning their relationship is like you don't smoke And enough to even ask yourself, I know I was drinking a lot. And I be like, this is not doing what I want it to do. Why am I Why am I even doing this? I was simply doing it because it was a habit. And so kind of asking yourself those deeper questions, is this drink doing something for me that I can't give to myself? Is there another activity that I could take place besides this. And so that's the Curiosity piece. Again, without judgement and full of compassion, we move only through compassion. No one has ever created big change in their lives willingly by someone shaming them, right? It's like, and then not have repercussions from it. And then the fourth shift is the intentional creator. And this is the really fun piece. This is the piece where we don't just stop drinking and start watching Netflix, we stop drinking, and we start living. It's that visioning into what's possible. What else like? Who are you outside of the confines of alcohol? Who are you innately? What is that thing that you've kind of been scared to do that now you're going to free up some time for yourself? So you really move into that future focus piece of vision of really creating a vision of the life intention of Okay, what are my core values? And how can I live into those who is she or he that really, you know, shows up to live? The walk the talk, you know, and so you get really clear on what your values are, and how you want to be an example to your family, to your children, what kind of people you want to draw into your life? What is the energy that you want, inconsistent in your life, even down to like, what do you wear? What is the music that you listen to? What are the activities out of this, you know, this world where you're where alcohol is irrelevant? Who are you now and you create the biggest and brightest, best future version for yourself, not the one where you're sitting in the corner and deprivation waiting for the party to be over, right? Like, no, we're like, this is a next level going up, not not crying in the corner. And that's the really fun piece, because it's possible, like we can do anything we want. There's no rules, I am a big huge Rule Breaker, you tell me that's why the piece of like, just telling myself, I could do it, because every time that I said no to myself, I just wanted to break that rule. And then the fifth and final shift is the supportive other. And this is i as i was exploring this more, this is kind of two parts. It's really the supportive other of the internal resources inside yourself. But it is also finding that piece, and in my case, it would be finding a holistic alcohol coach that could help you really just, you know, help you manage your mind help you navigate. And kind of what I do is I really help people see the stories that they've created that aren't serving them that they hold true is belief. And that's the biggest piece that a coach really helps you with is like, we live into these stories, these thoughts that we've said over and over again, that we just, they're facts now. And that's just not true. And they're super, super limiting. But the supportive other might be a sister circle, or it might just be reaching out to a friend that's been there before and being willing to say, you know, this isn't working for me anymore. Shame and alcohol go hand in hand, our culture has created such a stigma around alcohol, that it's either black or white. And that's just not the case, we can choose to not smoke cigarettes, or go on a diet or start exercising and none of those things are shamed. But if you're not drinking, or you're choosing to change your relationship with alcohol, then something's wrong with you not with the alcohol. And that is something I am passionate about rewriting. Because if we can't just be honest, like the first piece is honesty, because if you can't be honest with yourself, you're never going to know your truest self and how she can shine. And so it really is that peace of being without fear without shame without making excuses, like, No, I'm not drinking, because it makes me feel like crap. Like, you can say that and go out and that's okay. And usually it might trigger other people but for their own issues, but you know, that's something that people have to deal with. And it's really a place it's really a process of empowerment and like really radical self love. I mean, I can't think of a thing that I've done more than changing my relationship to alcohol that showed me that how much I really care about my life and myself. And it's just something I want for for all women and for all people everywhere as to not have that shame. So the supportive other piece, it really takes you out of the isolation that alcohol can put you into where you just feel like you're in hiding and then when it starts to really affect your life, you'll feel like even worse because it's affecting your life so just be like taking a deep breath being okay with it and saying yeah, I'm I'm going to change some things about my life as really is a really, really important part of the process. So that could like I said, that could be a group. It could be a supportive other could be a coach that can really help you navigate. navigate your thoughts and how you're not maybe in alignment with your highest values of yourself. So Yeah, while there's so much there. I mean, I look like so many thoughts. I mean, to start with, what number one, two and three are I mean, they're basic tenants that you apply to meditation when you sit down, right? Right, become the third party, non judgmental, compassionate observer of your thoughts, when they come up, they just come up, like, don't freak out about it, like, right, Quit making this all such a big deal. But then at the end, I think it's so interesting that alcohol is very clearly something that does some pretty bad things to a lot of people to lives, right. I mean, it's, it's, it's flagrantly a depressant and a poison. And yet, there's shame when you stop doing it, you write the dull, boring, sober one, right? And we'll get uncomfortable around you because you're not drinking. Now, I think that that's changing in our society. And it certainly has changed, at least in my age group. I can pretty much go to a bar now with friends and have a soda water and not get flack from them. But you know, that's, that's been a long time coming. And hopefully, that's happening, you know, in the younger generations as well. It's really interesting. But that's part of the social machine, right? The conformity machine, and it's good, it applies to alcohol it applies to, Are you married? Do you have children? How much money do you make? Do you have a good car? Like? What What do you know? What are you doing have your status and all of the all of the things that that keep us in constraints? Alcohol is one of them. It's a big one, too. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, that is one of the challenges that people face is really, you know, there are going to be people that support you, and there are going to be people that don't support you. And you really just have to use it as a tool for empowerment. And to know that as you're changing and evolving, because this shift is a process of evolution, I really look at it as a process of natural maturity maturation, like it's, when you're growing into yourself, and you're figuring out, you know, what's possible for you, I just think that it's another piece that, you know, might have been fun, it's at some point in your life, and it's just not anymore. And saying that without shame is such an empowerment tool. But you may choose that there are people that like you don't spend time with anymore, because you don't really like their companies over Frankly, I mean, I know that that happened to me, and it happens to a lot of people. So you there may, there's going to be a natural shifting process of other parts of your life as well. And that's just something that you just kind of have to take as it comes. But it's one of those things that people are already worried about, before they even start the process. So you know, my biggest advice to people is like, again, start now because you don't know you don't know how other people are going to respond. You don't know how you're going to respond, you might start stop drinking, and just have this flood of, you know, awakening of like, wow, what have I been missing out on. And so you just don't know until you start rolling the process. And you can't create a story. That's not even true yet. I know, for me, I just decided to go all out, especially when it came to partying, and I just showed up with curiosity to other people as well. And with my glitter on, and I just showed up as the life of the party and felt, you know, fun and confident. And then I shifted the focus to other people, what are you what do you have going on, and that really takes the emphasis off of you not drinking, I also just didn't care. But you know, I was also in running in circles to where people, not everyone was drinking either at that point. So but it's just part of the process. And then it kind of really helps you really redefine that future focus piece of, you know, maybe I've been hanging out with these people that aren't really even serving and serving my life at all anyway, but it was just kind of an old pattern. And you know, there might be some grieving process along with that as well. So, yeah, okay, can I say that showing up, to have fun showing up confidently and not focusing on the fact that you're not drinking is such a powerful impact on society, because it allows other people to do whatever they want, right? It changes that whole focus from are we drinking or not drinking to, we're just having fun? Well, however you want to have fun, you have fun, and that is what needs to change in our society so that it isn't to focus on conformity it's to focus on and this is one of the beautiful things about Burning Man, right? radical self expression is one of the 10 principles and radical expression is another. I'm sorry, radical acceptance is another one. However, however, someone shows up to have fun and be themselves. Let them do it. You don't question it right? And you talk about what's relevant and what's relevant is what we're doing together as a team. community. Beautiful. I love that. Yeah. And it does come. I've been thinking about that radical self acceptance piece. I haven't been to Burning Man. Yeah, I know, I'll end up there someday. But roughly they're living out and Rhododendron. Yeah, right. Um, I, you know, I think that, that, that the, the more I dive into deep self trust and unflinching faith and my own path, the more judge, the more judgement just falls away. You know, and I see this, I'm in a very my partnership is also like my best friend, and we're now we're in quarantine. So we're really close. But just really just choosing like, what, you know, what's his thing I never, I just, and then I have a little boy too. So I just never want to inhibit anyone's self expression. And I think we do that we judge when we just don't have that strong sense of self. And you know, it's part of the process of rediscovering who you are of discovering what this world in this life means to us. But yeah, I think when you have a really strong sense of self, and unflinching faith, and just your relationship with life, and even if that's just living into the mystery, that it is, I really do think that that sense of judgement falls away, and you can actually be inspired by others who are different than you and just be like, Wow, that's so cool. Instead of being threatened by them, or thinking that they're weird, or, you know, whatever other judgments we want to put on them. And, yeah, I love that. Because it really is, it is a gift to the collective to the world, I always say the more peace we have inside of ourselves, the more peace we create in the world, I mean, it can really only happen one individual at a time. But then, you know, as it does, then we're open to the collective being so much stronger, because we don't, we're taking personal responsibility for ourselves. And so we just don't need that we don't need you to act like this. So I can feel better. And it's just a great feeling to have personal responsibility. I love it. Yeah, that's beautiful. And it also speaks to, to diversity. And I was having contemplation on extreme diversity last night, which is what we see emerging in the world right now. And is what it is exactly needed if we're going to move toward a unity consciousness. Because we've we need to. So radical acceptance of extreme diversity has it's one, it's on the path to unity consciousness, it's unavoidably on the path, we have to be able to not only accept, but embrace and cultivate people's extreme diversity, because we've got a lot of problems to solve. Right? And, and the answers, the solutions to those problems are going to come from very unique angles are going to come out of that diversity out of the valuing and cultivating that diversity. And that's the only really way for us to get there. Or at least it has to go through that, right. Mm hmm. So I love and this is part of it. Like if you're, if if your unique path says I don't drink anymore. Fuck it. I don't drink anymore. And people will accept that. If you show up with confidence, and you show them and grounded and this is who I am. What are you working on? Tell me about it. Like just take the right and let's talk about something constructive, not whether I'm drinking or not. That's boring news. Yeah, absolutely. I couldn't agree with that more. And, yeah, it's actually so much more fun. I was just writing about this, actually, that the process of thinking about alcohol, getting the alcohol, preparing the alcohol, drinking the alcohol, dealing with the after, I felt like none of that's exciting, really, I mean, the thing you might do out of all of this stuff, it's like, oh, if I'm going to go drink at a concert, then the concert was probably the most exciting piece or the people I was with, and then even that I probably miss half the opportunity to actually connect with them. And so all in all, I mean, the only thing about I'll call it might be like, really interesting is like the process of it being crafted, you know, if you're into like the science behind it, but you know, working with the material, but anyway, and I just love that piece of diversity of extreme diversity because I feel like something. And this is another piece of why people drink or use substances is that constant search for your life's purpose? What is my life's purpose? And when you look at nature, you know, none of nature needs to ask what its purposes, it's just born and it just is like a tree is just a tree and it grows to be bigger and more beautiful and do its thing. Well, that is I believe our purpose as well. I think that everyone's individual purpose is to continue to be more uniquely who they are. And whoever thought conformity was a good idea. Like that sounds like the most boring world to live in and it's just impossible. Like you can't, you can't make people not be that you expression of themselves. That's just taking all of the fun and the Divinity out of this human experience. And I couldn't agree with you more that it's the only way towards unity consciousness is by being more uniquely who we are. Because it just creates a sense of freedom, where there's less conflict and judgement and all of the nasty things that come when we have conformity and the power over model. So yeah, I'm all about extreme diversity, for sure. Um, Hey, can you talk about I don't know, if you have any favourite success stories from people that you've worked with any anyone that you'd like to share with us? Yeah, um, I was thinking about it. And you know, so much of the work that I do is confidential. But the, the reason that I love this five shifts approach. And it really is just like you were saying, it's how it's about meditate, you know, how we tune into mindfulness, and the beginning shifts to a meditation practice. And of course, like a yoga path or any spiritual path, but one of my favourite clients who I actually know, on a personal level too, but she had suffered and, you know, does deal with pretty major depression for most of her life. And, and the reason that she was shifting her relationship with alcohol was because she realised that a point that the alcohol was obviously not helping the depression piece, and it was making it much worse. And as we started moving through these shifts of just mindfulness awareness, and the really that stepping back of the non judgement piece, she was able to really start to look at her depression, itself, because some people do have a net more of a natural inclination for that. And of course, you know, everyone's brain chemistry is different. And there's history and so forth. But she was able to really start to look at her anxiety and depression in that way, that it really made a huge shift. So she was able to just become more of a witness to these times of deep sadness, and what she would kind of called being in the dark from a neutral place. And instead of making it be a bad thing, she was able to come at herself with compassion, and using that as a tool for observation of, you know, maybe coming back to the feminine, like, what is this telling me about? What do I need, right? Now, it could be something as simple as like, more rest or a nap. Or maybe it's that I'm not in alignment with, you know, how I'm showing up in the world or a relationship that's affecting me. So it was just so powerful to see. And then she took that she has started her own business sense. And she's just been being seen more in the world. You know, just being more more active, like on social media and doing more like live things and showing up to facilitate, you know, some actual live events and becoming just really stepping into her own power through first changing her relationship to alcohol and how she was viewing it instead of, you know, feeling bad for being hung over. We just took it back. And it was like, Okay, how can you we're not looking at hungover as bad. We're just looking at it as a neutral circumstance now. So, you know, how can you now show up? Like, how can we bring the power back, and then it just really started to shift how she was literally looking at every single thing in her life, and just taking things next level. And I just see this pretty much with all of the women not only that I work with, but so many women that I know that are changing have changed their relationship to alcohol. It's just been this piece of empowerment for creating this inner resilience that is just really expanding their capacity to move through adversity. Because when you start to shift this, and you see life in a brand new way, and you kind of move through some of those initial disturbances that don't feel awesome. You're like, well, I don't need the alcohol. Now, there's nothing I can't do. I mean, it really has that profound effect on people's lives. And so I would say that, that is that's the biggest shift. I mean, that was one specific example. But I mean, it happens with everyone as these tools just become universal tools for every single thing that you do. Yeah, yeah. And that's, that's a beautiful thought. And one of the things that I was thinking as I was going through your shows, is that you could apply this to just about anything. Yeah, I mean, any more First of all, any set of addictions, right? And when you start to think about addictions, but I think it's natural for us as we mature, if you're a student of life at all, to start looking at the word addiction and start to expand out its meaning by looking at your life and going Oh, what are the things that I do habitually, thoughtlessly and often that don't serve my intentions that are in alignment with my status? intention or any type of higher purpose, and that becomes an addiction, right? So it could be the screentime it could be the time that we spend with some people who, you know, aren't good for us or maybe even a relationship or it could be any kind of substance or porn or it doesn't matter, right. And so all kinds of things could fall into that category. I've it's kind of funny because I'm very slender and very slender. But I've I struggle with food oftentimes. I mean, I go I go in and out drink I have gone let me change my story here. I have gone in the past in and out of this interesting relationship with food where I'm constantly eating and I'm full when I go to bed and I don't sleep well and you know all this stuff because I'm pleasure centres now. Nom nom. And, and then I go through the cycles that you talked about with alcohol, where when I go to eat at midnight, I'm beating myself up over and I'm having this big internal struggle in this drama. Like, drop the drama. Stop, ask if you really want to do that. Make the decision be okay with it. drop drop the story and like this could be applied to so many things in your life. Yeah, absolutely. I it's so true. I find myself now if I'm repeating on repeat about something like oh, I've got to get you know my schedule better and really hone in on that. I'm just like, Girl, either you're gonna do it or you don't like are you ready to do it now. Because if you're not, you can simply set it and you can even set it aside. And just like take some of that power back. Because you know, yeah, continuing during drinking isn't going to be good for you. But at the same time, that constant battle of your in your brain is just taking power away and energy away from other things like the amount of time that you can spend thinking about alcohol throughout the day is to think about it now in retrospect and like, I just can't even believe the hours that I spent thinking about it, just thinking about it not consuming it, or you know, getting excited about it or whatever. So, yeah, it really is. It's just a process. And I I'm continuously using it for myself now, like I said, was scheduling, you know, hope now that we've shifted schedules and what that looks like. And just being in that observer place of how can I take personal responsibility for this too? And question things, I do it a lot with my partner, because like I said, we're so close. And a lot of times when one thing, and this is kind of personal, but when it comes to intimacy of really, honing in my own, my own personal responsibility for my own pleasure. And you know, not leaving it up to something outside of myself to do that for me in that way too. or asking for what I need. So just diving into that observation, like, Am I automatically projecting that I need something or someone else to fulfil this thing for me? Or can I fulfil it inside of myself, whether that's through seeking pleasure in another way, or asking for what I need and you know, using my words, and, and just being it's really just a process of slowing down. And it's flipping the script, because for whatever reason, you know, this cultural, the the collective consciousness, I think, especially in our culture in America is just like, outside of ourselves is where we find all the pleasure and we outside of ourselves. And then we blame all the things outside of ourselves to like, there's no, there's no personal responsibility, there's no reflection. And so you have to take responsibility for the good and the bad, right? I mean, so you have to want all of it. But it's like when you do when you when you take responsibility for the good and the bad, and that's also a judgement, but for all the things. It's just so empowering. And then it's a refining process where there's really not that many bad things. And I really think a lot about, you know, the, like, I don't sit in thinking about existential stuff all the time. But like, if something really terrible was to happen in my life, could I still use these tools to support my process through like, say, a grieving process or something. And I want to really, I really want to trust myself that not that it wouldn't be challenging. But I really do think these tools have mindfulness and personal responsibility and seeking help and asking and being vulnerable, and all of these things that are innately part of the magic of the human experience. I really believe I would use them and I would never go back to like, just drinking and numbing I mean, at this point, it just is not. It just doesn't even sound like anything my body could even handle. But yeah, I think that they are really powerful for the full spectrum of of life. And, and we need them, we need them as this world is changing. We really need to be able to trust that we can grow our inner resilience in a way that is going to allow us because clearly, we can't rely on the structures of the powers that be and we have the The only way to take power back is for our internal resources to grow and really decide how we're focusing our attention. And then also how we're consuming, you know, consuming less so that we can just have what we need, and just have a blast without buying shit all the time. Oh, Lou, yeah. Okay, so listen, I have a couple more questions for you before we wrap up. And one of them is what's next for you on your journey? Both, you know, like, in terms of what is your next personal challenge, you know, if you want to share that, that you're looking to overcome? And also, you know, just what are you working to create in the world? Yeah, well, since I just had my birthday, it was definitely I had a big shift. And I am just, I'm really, really focused on dropping story. And going beyond going beyond story until the only thing that's left is love. That was my, that was my wish for my I was pumping my fist for those of you who can't see it. Yeah, so just going beyond until the only thing that's left is love. And I think if there's anything in the way of that, then it just is a fine tuning. And, you know, I think that there can be this lightness, even in the face of adversity, I think there can be a lightness in the sadness. And I think that there can be a lightness in all of it if it's genuine. So just transformation for myself. deep connection to the nature that's around me. And really seeing how, as I started my own podcast, the the conversations have really shifted in a way that is opening me up to what the path of what I really feel like, my my gifts, and my my tools are for the world, which is I mean, the alcohol conversation is so important, but I am really seeing some, just these beautiful overlapping messages that are coming through from these women and men that I'm talking to, about this feminine aspect really coming out. And so the facilitation piece, bringing people up in up to our space in the land here. And just really tuning into the subtle nature of reality. And our existence, I think is is really as what's coming ahead. For me, I'm also working on a book that has been in the works. This was one of the things that was like the shitter get off the pot kind of thing, like either you're gonna sit down and just write every day or just put it aside. So for my birthday, and for this new moon cycle, I just I decided no matter what it is, I'm just writing every day whether or not it comes out and part of the book. But so yeah, I'm making a beautiful space for people to come and heal. Continuing the podcast, and of course, I am coaching people one on one through their journeys of alcohol, but it's a holistic process. So it ends up being so much more than just about their relationship with alcohol. And we talk about embodiment and spirituality. And I've got lots of tools for helping people really tune in to a deeper sense of self. So I guess I'm just you know, going through the school of life, as you are saying, Yeah, yeah, that's, that's so beautiful. And so do you have a you have a working title for the book? Well, I there I actually don't, I don't, you know, I don't know if I want it specifically to be about alcohol or just my piece of the journey. I've thought about everyday ritual. I think ritual is such a beautiful practice. But I'm kind of listening to the outer realms of where what I should really hone in on whether that's the journey with alcohol, or whether it's the practice of, of diving into self trust, and, you know, working with these five shifts, so I don't have a working title right now. But I'll tune into the energies that be and see what they have to say. All right. So we do have a title to the podcast, and that is stop drinking and start living that start stop drinking ampersand. start living. I think. Yeah, I think it's it both. I think it's I think I have it both in a couple of places. So who knows what it is, but you'll find out Yeah, are you gonna just putting Mary Wagstaff in it to show up by the way, I found it quite easily. Last question that I have for you, Mary is how can people get hold of you and want to? Yeah, so I would love for people to check out the podcast because it's really fun and I just having a lot of free flowing, just enlightened, convert beautiful conversations, but also, there's just some really great value, especially with the solo podcasts of ways that you can tune in, but on my website, Mary Wagstaff coach calm. There is a beautiful training that goes into these five shifts and a little bit deeper, but it's one hour long. So it's a free workshop that will take you through through the process. And when you sign up for that workshop, you'll get like a little, you know, actual PDF of the of a workbook that will take you through to. So if you just kind of want to start now, the first shift is starting now. So when you sign up for that you're already taking the first shift. And it can just kind of help you still be in that internal space where maybe you're really not ready to talk to someone about it about your relationship with alcohol. So it can just kind of help you to tune into those tools starting now. And then, of course, jumping on the phone with me, we just do a consultation and talk about, you know, really a core value of yours that you really want to start living into and getting you inspired into taking action rather than feeling deprivation. So that value that's super important to you. And yeah, I'm here and all of my information is on the website. That's probably the best place to find me and the podcast. Good stuff. Mary Wagstaff, thank you so much your light in the world. I appreciate you being on the show today. This has been super fun. Yes, David, thank you so much for all the work you're doing. It's gonna be amazing. I'm just so proud of you and thrilled for your journey. It's such an exciting project. Awesome. Thanks. We'll connect soon. If you're loving this podcast and you're ready to dive deeper. I want to invite you to check out my one on one coaching programme. It's your opportunity to actually study and then apply these tools and principles to your life to get the results you want most to stop drinking without pain. Learn to trust yourself again and then refocus your energy to reach that next level goal. Stop by my website Mary Wagstaff coach.com, or find the scheduling link in the show notes. I can't wait to connect