Ep. #71 There's No Right Way w/ Tricia Lewis Of Recovery Happy Hour

When you are examining your relationship to alcohol, it's important to stay open to what works for you, what resonates with you deeply. As my guest today, Tricia Lewis, of Recovery Happy Hour explains, as you grow from alcohol, the way you show up to your life and recovery will too. Don't get stuck in a box.  Tricia shares with us her story of perfectionism and having to detox from alcohol when she could no longer get away with functioning at the rate she was going. She discovered that you could be addicted to alcohol and look normal on the outside.  As she explored various modalities of recovery, the one thing she knew she needed and didn't want to loose, was community after being in the service industry for so many years. She created the amazing podcast, Recovery Happy Hour, to support those on the journey of recovery and share the diversity of stories and ways to seek support so all people can find a way to connect and know they are never alone on this road.
Thank you Tricia!

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Transcript

1:09

Welcome, welcome. My name is Mary Wagstaff. I am a holistic alcohol coach who ended a 20 year relationship to alcohol without labels, counting days or ever making excuses. Now I help women just like you from around the world do the same with my one on one private coaching program. In this podcast, we will explore my revolutionary approach to getting alcohol out of your way that breaks all the rules, life enhancing tools that make not drinking exciting and joyful and profound and sacred journey that it is to rediscover who you are on the other side of alcohol. The show is not a substitution for rehabilitation, medical treatment or advice. So please talk to a medical professional if your alcohol consumption is at risk to your mental or physical health. Now on with the show. Hello, my beautiful listeners, welcome back to another episode of stop drinking and start living. I hope you're having an amazing day and focusing on the positive. I've been just talking a lot about the last few episodes about the vibration of thinking every single sentence in your brain is a thought and creates a specific vibration, right. So even if it's just very casual, it still creates a vibration that is going to then infer how you will act. Today on the show. We have an amazing guest I am so so thrilled to have spent some time with this woman and I have a feeling that I might get to spend some time with her in real life at some point. After quarantine is over. Trisha Lewis, who is the host of a really popular recovery podcast called recovery happy hour is on the show. I was actually on her show about a month ago, it was the December 22 episodes, I would love for you to go back and listen to her show. Recovery podcast, of course, I'll put a link in the show notes. She's very active on Instagram, so you can check her out there. And it was really nice because she shares so many other people's recovery stories. But she was able to share hers on our podcast here today. And the best thing that I really really resonate with Trisha about. And this is just a role to live by a rule that I like to live by, is there is no one right way to do anything. And when we judge other people's way of doing something, it takes away our power. And this is prevalent not only in the recovery community, and I use that term loosely, you can call it whatever you want dismantling your habit, changing your relationship, so on and so forth. You know, whatever tomato tomato, but it's the same thing, right? However, there are varying degrees of addiction, and that is something that is studied. My interpretation of that is that anyone that drinks frequently enough and for long enough will become addicted to the substance. Now what they're how their addiction manifests is going to be up to a lot of different factors, personal internal resources, their ability for resilience and coping the environment in which they live in other stressors in their life, right adversity, other things that they're already facing that are challenge. And when it comes to the DNA, or the genetics of alcoholism, alcoholism actually isn't even used as a term anymore. We know that there's not a specific gene. However, what I do know about studying ancestral lineage, lineage and ancestral wounding is when we are born, our genes and our DNA can change inside of the womb. So, like I was saying at the beginning of the show, the thoughts that are that are created that generate an emotion in the body, the vibration of the the womb in which you were born in the room in which you grow up in the the lineage of that DNA, the vibrational frequency, we are all light and vibration that is what we are made of and we know this, we know this on a metaphysical level. And it's, it's it's all we are all particles put together through light and vibration, that create matter. And so the vibration can have an effect on the genetic coding, even if it doesn't look like a specific gene DNA. So one of my missions in life is to have been the, the halt of the wounding of addiction in my family. Now, everyone and every family experiences some sort of addiction, some sort of attachment to a story to a substance, whether you know it, whether it creates really traumatic stress in your life and irreversible damage or not, the process of unraveling is a is the same, but it will take longer for different people based on their level of awareness from where they're at. Not one thing, right way works for everyone else. Some people really thrive in, in a community where they feel like they're really part of this tribe. And there are a lot of rules. Some people want to get alcohol out of their headlines, they don't want it to be associated with it, they're over it like me, I'm just like, I talk about it all the time. But you know, like, it's not a thing, I don't care about it anymore. I only care about supporting people and teaching them. So that was what she talked about, and kind of picking and choosing. And this is what I did. And this is how I created my program. Really being open minded, it doesn't even have to look like recovery. Now, Tricia is still actively involved in her recovery. And I am through the work that I do. But that has was never a need for me. I sought out and said yes to things that didn't weren't involved with alcohol, but that weren't specifically sober, related. They just didn't involve alcohol. And when you stop drinking, and you start looking for evidence in your life, that yes, there are other fun things to do without alcohol, you will start to find evidence that you don't just have to hang out in sober communities to do alcohol free things, right. So find the things that work for you. Be open minded, try new holistic practices, you guys know that my thing was hula hoop dancing and conscious dance, as well as a deep dive into my practice of yoga, using essential oils, and energy medicine, somatic practices and movement as well as one on one coaching. Spirituality a deep dive into my spirituality connection with nature. And so don't, don't be closed minded about the process of what this will look like now, and let it evolve with you as you start to discover who you are. Don't put yourself in a box and get stuck there and let it limit your potential for recovery. And then outside of that as well. There's no one right way to do anything. And when we try to have that righteousness over someone else, who is it serving? You know, would you rather be right or happy let people do their thing. And if it's somehow affecting you, then as a mature adult from a place of love and compassion and truth, you can say, hey, that's not really my vibe, I'm going to go over here, right? And then everyone wins. I have a client that said she makes decisions now by asking herself, will this serve me and everyone else involved? What is the what is the best approach I can take that will serve everyone what a beautiful thought. So don't be a hater, don't shame, stay open. And that's why I'm here. You're never going to hear me putting down anyone. And that's why I loved this interview with Trisha, go to a check it out. Come talk to me, go to yoga, do the thing. See what resonates with you. What I do know about the framework of my particular program is that it is set up systematically for success with the timeframe and the components that hit the whole person on every single level. So you actually have access to all of the modalities and a one stop shop. And that's kind of why I designed it that way. Because for me, it wasn't just one thing. Now I had to uncover my story and it always comes back to our thoughts, right? We can't change the action. I mean, I went to yoga for 20 years and I was still drinking, but it wasn't until I use my thoughts to generate a new vibration, a new emotion that then I was starting to use my practice. For my, for changing my relationship to alcohol, right. And I hadn't really used that before I just, it just wasn't in my field of awareness. Of course I thought about it and I, some of my one of my actually, kind of final moments of despair was going to a hot yoga class. And I don't know if I've told this during the show was going to a hot yoga class that I had been going to, for a really long time, I'd been getting up in the morning, and it was really dynamic. And I hadn't been doing that kind of practice in a while, was really challenging me, I had really seen some improvements in my practice, and, you know, some gains as far as strength and flexibility and with my mind, and it was a later class, like on a weekend, and I was used to going really early like in the dark during the week. And I had stayed out and gone out or whatever, and I wanted to die. I was just on my mat, I had to lay down, I couldn't even move. I was so nauseous. And I remember that I had already started this process, right. And so if you're new to the show, I always say taking your last sip isn't the first step. It is the commitment not just to quitting. It's not saying no, it's continuing to show up to say yes to your life, yes to new things to exploring to discovering what are the thoughts to uncovering and growing your awareness. So I'd already started this process, I had already taken some really long breaks from alcohol. And this awareness was really coming into my view that this just wasn't the way it wasn't what I once thought it wasn't what wasn't what I wanted to be, I was really getting on to the habit itself. And knowing that it just wasn't what I wanted, the habit was just serving itself. And I was like, this is this event. This is such a disservice not only to the practice of yoga, and the science of yoga, and all of the things that have come before it in the lineage, but to myself, and without shame or judgment. I remember I went to like the whole the new New Seasons or whatever the whole foods, and I got like a detox like some bentonite clay. And it was just I was over. And I don't think that was the very last time that I drank. But it was definitely one of the big catalysts. And that wasn't the first time that had happened. But I had started the process already of saying yes, and I was committed to dismantling this habit no matter what. And that's where you have to be. You can't just take a break for 30 days and go back to your old ways. It doesn't work that way. You have to create the foundation. And now starting with a break is a great way. If you have the right information and you look at it, but you don't just take that break in the whole time. Just wait till it's over just to prove you can that doesn't work. You have to actually study your urges, study your thoughts, study your habits, move some of that energy around process, your emotion process, the urges process the cravings. So, without further ado, my beautiful friends, I think you're amazing. I love you so much. And I would love to talk to you sometime. So make sure to reach out if you have any questions. Thank you to our new big audience who's listening to the show. I'm so grateful for your presence. And I'm just like making so much new content for my program. I am really in a process of kind of channeling this new information and I can't wait to share it with you. And it'll be more information and definitely more episodes on the podcast. So enjoy this episode this interview with Trisha and make sure to check out the recovery. Happy Hour podcast. Welcome back. My beautiful listeners. Thank you so much for being here for another episode of stop drinking and start living. And if you're new to the show, welcome. I am so thrilled today to have another beautiful empowered woman to tell us her amazing story, sobriety and her journey of empowerment, and all of the magic that she's putting out into the world right now. Welcome to the show, Tricia Lewis. Trisha, thank you so much for being here. Of course, thank you for having me. It's always fun to be interviewed for you know, for once that doesn't happen very often. Yes, it is. And I'm so excited to get into the show and all your show and all of that stuff. So let's just start out by you telling our listeners about yourself and how you spend most of your days and yeah, what you're currently up to in this beautiful pandemic quarantined world. Yeah, yeah, I'd be happy to. My name is Tricia Lewis. I'm 39 and I live in Dallas, Texas, and I, for my nine to five, I'm an executive assistant to a CEO of a company, a restaurant group. And I also have a part time job on the weekends as well as running some social media and then But I also host the recovery, happy hour podcast, I host and produce that I've been doing that for about two and a half years. And that keeps me pretty busy. You know, during quarantine times, really, I'd say that, you know, My hobbies are walking my dog, you know, playing music with my man friend doing Pilates and, you know, just playing virtual Cards Against Humanity with with my best friends. So sounds like a great life. Actually, I can't, you are very busy. I'm impressed. And I do want to get into the podcast a little bit later. But let's, let's talk a little bit about your alcohol journey. And when did you first start drinking? And why? And you can just kind of go on from there. Yeah, of course. Um, well, I always like to say that I wasn't supposed to be an alcoholic, or, you know, a problematic drink or whatever you want to call it, that all those words are kind of interchangeable to me. I started drinking when I was 16. For you know, I wish I could say it was just because I was going to a party and wanted to have fun and wanted to have a wine cooler or something. But, uh, you know, my first, you know, true love, my first boyfriend dumped me. And I didn't want to feel those feelings. And I was at a party and decided to slam three shots of whiskey. Because I didn't want to feel that way. And I wanted to control the situation. And that's how I drink the very, very first time that alcohol ever touched my lips. So I that's probably that's problematic, I would say. But that's also sort of an indicator of how it always was. I've always been a control freak, I've always had anxiety. But I've also always been an overachiever and a perfectionist and really made it look like everything was fine on the outside. And I grew up around addiction, my older brother, who's sober and clean now for five years. You know, he really struggled with drugs and alcohol. And that was the focus of our family for a long time. So we had a very, you know, addiction centric, family dynamic, which means that me, you know, being the quote, unquote, like, you know, perfect sibling, I was always trying to, to overcompensate for my brother, you know, I'm not saying I was perfect, but I was trying to be perfect all the time, you know, always trying to calm the waters make peace, you know, fix everybody's emotions, you know, putting way too much responsibility on myself. So no wonder I had anxiety all the time. You know, perfectionism is a is a coping mechanism within itself. So when I was in my 20s, I've always been in the restaurant industry. And same thing, just same story, just achieve achieve achieve, you know, reached some, you know, had some great success in my career at a young age and was a complete workaholic. But I drink just as hard as I worked. And again, just as long as it looked like everything was fine on the outside, I was happy, you know, I'd work and then I drink and wake up and do it all again, and would never want to admit that I was hung over would never want to admit that I had blacked out. And I'd say that I knew that my drinking was a problem. By the time I was about 23, I'd say that was when I started blacking out. Not regularly, but I was used to it. And I continued to drink that way. Until I was in my mid 30s. I was blindsided and surprise, got a divorce and found out that my husband had been having affairs with a couple of different women. So I everything in my life changed in a day. So I knew that I could always count on alcohol before to you know, control things. And and this is when it just got to be dark, because I really needed alcohol at that point. I had always depended on it. But now I was really dependent on it. So I was drinking just to numb, the sadness, the depression, just anything to where I wouldn't have to feel. So I'd say that last year that I was drinking, I really felt like I was becoming a danger to myself. I was living alone for the first time and was blacking out the majority of the time when I drink. But what was interesting, I still find this fascinating is that sometimes I would have blackout after three glasses of wine. Sometimes it would be after two bottles. It just you just never knew you know, and it got to a point where I never knew what was going to happen when I had that first drink. Because the next morning I would wake up having blacked out, you know, covered in injuries or bruises from things that I didn't remember and that was really scary. And I had played around with the rules for years. is trying to moderate, you know, switching back and forth from liquor to wine or trying to go a couple of weeks. And those structures of sobriety just kept getting shorter and shorter and shorter until I was hard just to go a day. I stopped when I went into full blown withdrawal really. I had a weekend of, you know, three days of partying and woke up on Monday. And for once, I couldn't get rid of that hangover. I was so good at pretending like I wasn't hungover. And I just, I couldn't, I couldn't do anything but lay there. And after a couple of days of not drinking, I mean, I was in I was, you know, cold sweats, couldn't eat couldn't sleep. It was it was physical withdrawal from alcohol. And that's, that's when I think I recognized how truly dangerous this was for my body. And that I, I couldn't really I couldn't really talk about, like, what's the word I'm trying to use? I couldn't negotiate with alcohol anymore. You know, I'd really found all these ways to kind of try and outsmart it for years. And at that point, it won. And, for the record, don't ever detox on your own. If you're a daily drinker, or if you binge regularly, what I did was very unsafe. So I just like to make sure that people know that. Don't quit cold turkey. If you're a regular drinker, please, please, please talk to your doctor. And then yeah, so I that that was November 14 2016, was the first day of my sobriety. And I at that point, just started trying everything. You know, I started listening to podcasts, I went to an a meeting, I went back to therapy, I was doing meditation, yoga, Facebook, accountability groups, like I was trying everything, because I knew that I was going to have to quit someday, you know, I hadn't been around addiction long enough to know that. I was probably it was, it was probably in the cards for me. So I didn't really want to try quitting for good. Until I was really ready. Because I knew that as soon as I started implementing those tools, or going to a 12 step meeting, but drinking wasn't going to be fun anymore. So once I was there, I was like, here we are, we're doing this, and I just tried to recover as hard as I drank. And I've never looked back. Yeah, wow. And congratulations, what an achievement to really to just have that day. And then from there on, just be in it. And think it's amazing. And I can't ignore the fact too, I feel this status, because it's probably going to be relatable. You know, I probably about four days after quitting, after I had fully detox and was starting to feel kind of normal, because I felt like I had the flu for three days. For a moment, I thought, you know what, maybe I can just like do a juice cleanse for a couple of weeks. And maybe I can listen to like a recovery podcast and just kind of sort things out and then go back to normal, like I still was having those flashes of thoughts after days of physical withdrawal, which is how messed up you know, our this, this, this addiction or whatever your you know, your your relationship is with alcohol. So I did have those flashes. You know, I've had some rough spots, but I also knew that I just I was there's no reason why I wouldn't buy I can't die from this because it kills women every day. Yeah, so yeah, luckily, the angel on my shoulder spoke louder than the devil on the other. And and then, you know, slowly over time, I really, really just dug into it. Yeah, yeah. And I'm so glad that you first of all mentioned about the detox because that is very important. And there's so many levels of addiction with this habit. But what I find, and you can tell me how, you know, with with the work that you've done, too, is that those those little thoughts, those little ghosts, I call them imprints because you know, we have so many triggers that take us from A to drinking so quickly that even when we know with our conscious forward thinking mind in our smartest self, that those can creep in and they can they they call they can be around for a long time, even though you get really good at identifying them. And I think that a lot of people can think oh my gosh, this is about me, how can I still be having thoughts and it's been so long. And you know, I remind people that these are grooves in your brain that are that are convinced that this poison is actually good for you to your detriment, because it's such a concentrated reward. It is and and and you know, of course, there's two things I want to say about that. One is that a thought is just a thought, you know, never shame we should never shame ourselves for having a thought because it's not an action. It's just a thought and We can't control those. The other thing is that, you know, alcohol was my best friend for a long time. And I relied on it. And it really helped me through a lot. And I and I had fun for a long time to you know, you can't only talk about the bad and not, not not address the fact that some of it was good for a while. But eventually, my best friend turned into my abusive boyfriend, right. And you know, but you still have that habit, like, constantly leaning on that thing, no matter where it is on the best friend or abusive boyfriend spectrum, you still your brain is just that that neuroplasticity that you're talking about? Yeah, you go back there, because that's what you're used to. and identifying it isn't, is the first step to to changing that. But I just, you know, I can't underline that enough that those thoughts, you know, aren't, don't make us bad, they're nothing we should be ashamed of, it's just a matter of observing them, and then learning how to retrain our brain, you know, 100%, that's the first that is what I teach, as well as just to become the witness of the thoughts and rather than attached to them and and then I wanted to talk to you a little bit about your, you know, kind of some of the tools that you learn to that have gotten you to this point, but I wanted to backtrack a little bit too, being 16. And I was just talking about this with my partner, actually, and how quickly one can develop a habit with alcohol because of and you know, maybe there's other other factors involved if you're actually using it for coping, but the addictive qualities to it now, I mean, how long would you say at that point, it took you before you felt like you had a habit with it. I probably had a habit, you know, I was probably 18 or so. And then, you know, that was drinking on the weekends, that was binge drinking on the weekends. And because I thought that's what you did. You know, especially for me, I was in the restaurant industry. And that's what everyone around me was doing. I just thought I didn't think that this was anything dangerous. I just thought that we were being wild and young and free. And that's unfortunate that that image is is promoted, you know, over a lifetime, you know, imprinted in tiny ways, you know, in the media and magazines and movies, music, country music, you know, it's, we believe that that binge drinking is just what you do when you're young and free spirited. But we're putting an addictive substance in our body that anyone can become addicted to over a matter of time, anyone. Alcohol doesn't really care, what you look like how much money you have, how many degrees you have. Because it's meant to do one thing, and that's to get you fucked up. And then and it's meant for you to depend on it. That's what it does. Yeah. Yeah, it's true. 100%. And I resonate with that so much, I was in the alcohol industry for 15 years, as well. And there was like, I'm so tired at the end of the day, this is the only thing I can do is drink. Right. And, yeah, and I appreciate pointing that out, too, that there are, you know, these good time memories associated with it, that kind of, you know, that have that nostalgia of, you know, Footloose, and Fancy Free. And as you mature and get older, and the addiction gets stronger, and the effects become become unavoidable to deny, it's, it's, it just becomes it's a one way street to, to nowhere, really, it is and you know, I I never had children. So I think that I probably had a little bit more freedom to work as much as I wanted, and then drink as much as I wanted when I wasn't working. So there are probably, you know, had I chosen a different path, my would my drinking have looked differently, you know, possibly, who knows. But yeah, I know that, you know, a working 12 hour a day or a 15 hours a day, when I got home, the first thing I needed to do was get drunk as quickly as possible. Because I only had so many hours where I could be awake before I had to go to bed. So I had to change the way I felt as soon as possible. And again, that goes back to control, right? Even if it's doing something that makes us miserable. We want to control or when I say we, I mean me. I was just so used to like having that control over something, even if it was doing something that made me miserable. You know, control is what I was used to. Yeah, absolutely. And I was wondering about your you talked about your brother, and as you were, you know, going through that process with him. Did you? Did you have any reflection or inkling at that time that this was the path that you were also on? I'm really glad that you asked that because that was a big part of the torment because I was so used to seeing someone who was the picture of the stigma. You know, and I, I legitimately had no idea that there were high functioning alcoholics out there. I thought I was unique. And I was the only person pulling this off. You know that. And so that was what, what drug this process out for so long? Because I was like, well, I can't have a problem. I can't be an alcoholic. Look, I have my life together. I cessful I'm married I, you know, we have we have money I travel Instagram looks perfect. Like, there's no way I can be an alcoholic. I've never had a DWI. Like, there are all these rationalizations why I couldn't have a problem. Instead of me looking within and going, this thing makes me really unhappy. And that's a problem. And that's the question we have to ask ourselves. It's not Am I an alcoholic? It's am i doing this thing that makes me unhappy? And then that's what we have to ask ourselves and trust ourselves to really do what we know is right. And so like that, that torment, it drives everyone crazy. You know, my show is all about, like, not all about I have so many people that come on, they call themselves high functioning drinkers, or alcoholics. Hmm. And that's, that's the common thread is that we drove ourselves mad for ages, just trying to figure out if our problem was bad enough, and a sad, sad, you know, that we can't trust our own brains to tell us what we like and what we don't like and what feels good and what doesn't feel good. Yeah. And I mean, it's, it's no wonder too, though, because of the stigma of that is, if you can, it's such an other thing. And I really think the work we're doing is changing that. And I'm so grateful for that. It's, you know, I felt for me when I, you know, kind of came out and I started just really was casual about it. And I really had no excuses about it. So many people have friends of mine, were saying, you know, oh, you know, me too. Like, I've been exploring this too, because I'm not having this great relationship with alcohol, because it only gets worse. And yeah, I do think there's so much of this other rain, that it's if you want to come out about it, then you are on the bottom, you know, then you're on the Euro bottom feeder, kind of and it really is just so sad. And I'm glad you brought that up, because I actually did an episode that I think was out today about how much is too much. And if we are always looking for validation and permission from other people to live our best lives, then we're going to be miserable. And this I think this is what you're saying. And I said to you, when you decide that's how much too much is right? And not needing to Google something to get a diagnosis or to make sure that you are drinking just enough. And so I'm really glad you pointed that out. That'll be a good follow up to that episode. Because Yeah, so tell talk a little bit about that, like that process for you really being able to come out and find, you know, your own pathway, your own process, and what some of that what some of those tools looked like for you. Yeah, so I used a lot of tools. And the great thing about recovery that I didn't know, when I first quit drinking was that you can do whatever you want, you really can you can decide what works best for you. And I saw I started out with an a meeting, because that's what I knew about. And I just considered it information that I was accumulating. You know, I just wanted to find out what it was all about. I didn't want to commit to it. I didn't want to say like I'm going to join the program. And I just kind of looked at everything with that perspective. like okay, I'm just gonna see if this feels good. You know, like, how do we find our favorite food? We have to try a whole bunch of different kinds of food, right? How do we find our favorite dress, you have to try on a bunch of different clothes. Recovery should be no different. Try everything. And only after you've tried it, decide if it works for you. Because I hear so many people that have heard things about a and they don't go well. I went for a year, it was wonderful. After about a year, it wasn't really serving me so much anymore. So I was trying other things. You know, try therapy, especially now there's so many apps, you can get therapy on your phone. You know, there's so many social media accountability groups, there was like two, you know, five years ago, and they're, you know, you can't swing a stick without hitting 100 of them now, you know, social media accountability groups are fantastic, because you've really got, you know, people at your fingertips 24 hours a day. So being accountable to other people that are going through the same process that you are is so so lovely, and makes you feel less alone. And so I was doing the accountability groups, I was doing 12 step work. I was doing therapy, I started meditating. I was using exercise. I was doing yoga, I started a morning routine. Which is really kind of what helped me break out of my sort of control patterns. Again, like, he hasn't really served me in a few years. But in the beginning, the 12 steps really helped me understand how my thinking was keeping me sick. Mm hmm. So, yeah, I encourage anyone that like, if you find something, if somebody tells you that something worked for them, great, try it. But don't tell like don't count their experience as your own, you really have to try things yourself and then decide if it's working or not. And then if something is working, wonderful, if it stops working, try something else, that process can evolve over time. So I don't do some, you know, the accountability groups or, or a anymore, but I do, you know, I have a phone app where I'm constantly video chatting with my recovery friends. You know, I'm getting emails from my listeners and talking about sobriety with them. Like, you know, I've got my my community group at my church, I have so many different ways that my recovery kind of twists and turns over time. So I just want to encourage anybody who's really in the beginning of this process, to understand that what you're doing right now is not how it's going to be for the rest of your life. Yes, that's such an important message. And just to get curious, and, and you might come up with something on your own, you know, like, something that really works for you. I mean, for me, it was hula hoop dancing, believe it or not, I was gonna say, I was like, maybe it's hula hooping. Maybe you're like Mary, and you and hula hooping wakes up your body and makes you feel incredible. It makes you not want to drink? Why wouldn't you keep doing that? Yeah, totally. If it's working good on you. Like there's no governing body that says you're gonna do like recovery wrong. Because as long as you're not drinking, and you're happy, it sounds like you're doing all right. Yeah, absolutely. And the thing is, when we aren't processing emotions, and this is something I found true for me, and maybe it'll resonate with you too, is that that gets stored in the body. And, you know, there's so many different ways that we, you know, that we've been dissociating from, from the world, and from our emotions, and we've been numbing for so long, that when that at that energy, that energy in motion, those vibrations aren't processed, and they get stored. They they do that's like part of the detoxification process, I feel like to get to a place where you no longer feel like you're in deprivation of the like, of not being able to. And so I do think there's so many different practices that don't even necessarily look like they have anything to do with quote, unquote, recovery, that will that can work for you. And the other thing about a and I don't have much experience with it, but is that depending on where you are, and I know they're diversifying, like there are different groups for that are run by different people all over the place. And I know what runs on under the same framework. But I do know, like out here, where I live, there's this woman's group that's very popular, and I think it's like a very open minded community. And so I think it's, I really appreciate that because I do think no matter however, you're getting support, that's what's the most important thing. And don't shut it down. If it doesn't work for someone else, you know, or don't make that your last stop either. So right, yeah, yeah, we can all recover differently, and respect the fact that some things are successful for other people, and just and congratulate them on that, you know, and that, yes, that's where it can stop, you know, we don't ever have to, like, you know, disagree with somebody on on something that that is not even worth fighting over. I agree. 100%. And, like, it's not my approach, you know, the way that I coach and teach, but I would never, ever belittle anyone for the way that they're getting help and making their lives better ever. Like, that is not my place. And me and I just want to support everyone, whatever, whatever works for them. Um, right, talk to me a little bit, you know, about the timeframe, because I know you're still doing recovery type things, that kind of the timeframe. You said, you never really looked back and you were in it, and you kind of dove into recovery as much as you dove into alcohol. But was there a time where there was kind of a switch that flipped for you and your brain where you knew that you were never going back? And you felt really good about not drinking anymore? I don't know if it was so much of a switch as to maybe more so like that switch? Very slowly switched? No, it wasn't like a flip of a light switch. It was as if you were watching that thing on a time lapse in it and it very, very slowly turned on. I remember, you know, round two months in I I'd finished my 12 step and had this really cool spiritual experience on it yo Come out and just kind of have this deep knowing that I, that there's a light inside of me that nobody can ever put out that I have that inside of me, I have control over my own joy. And I'm in charge of that nobody, nobody can ever take that away. And I think that was one of the first times I really felt in control in a healthy way, you know, not in control, because I was clinging to something so tight, but more like, like, like, it was like I was in the copilot seat with it, you know, we could ride this thing out together, it was a little more relaxed, you know, like, I would have these these sort of awakenings a little bit at a time, over long periods of time. And you know, that, that first year, man, it's like puberty all over. It really is you have all these feelings, and everything is such a big deal. And, and I feel like every year kind of had a theme to it. You know, that first year, I was lucky because I had full, you know, I owned a business at the time. And I had full full time, you know, Chef, that, you know, I employed not like a personal chef, like I was like rich or something not at all. Like this is like a, I was a chef for years. And this is somebody who I hired to take over my job. So I had all this time to recover. And I also dove into I was building out a new kitchen so I could kind of focus my stress and energy on work. But after that first year, after I kind of popped my head up out of the ground, and and just knew how to get through a day without drinking and it wasn't like, like pulling teeth anymore. Like it finally just felt normal. And I looked around and realized that I had to start living my life now. So that first year was like triage. And then the second year is like, okay, who am I? And what are we going to do about our life? And I don't normally talk about myself in the third person. But yeah, I just I really, now that I had like my senses and and really knew how to manage my feelings and knew how to how to reason properly, I really looked around and was like, wow, I have a lot of things I really needed to clean up. So that second year was, was tough. I think my second year was the hardest because I just had to live and make some hard decisions. I closed a business, I made a career change, I moved in with my parents, you know, focused on paying off debt, I made some really difficult, like responsible and frustrating decisions, because ultimately, they were a great investment. But, you know, we're very unfun at the time. So that was a lot of work. And, you know, over, I just hit four years in November. And I feel like, especially getting past this last year, in 2020. I feel like I'm finally just starting to look for the joy and things and not looking for more problems to fix. And not looking out looking for more projects to start you no less fixing and more just like sitting. So that's where I'm at. Yeah, that's kind of where I'm at right now. And it's not like you ever arrive, you know, this process is never ending. And I know that every year that I keep doing this for the rest of my life is going to have some sort of theme to it. Because that's what personal growth is all about. Is this never ending process. But it's, um, you know, I, I wish I could say that there was a moment that it switched. But I know that once I decided I was I, I was, you know, had a few days under my belt was ready to go something was just the paradigm just shifted. And it was it was just time. I don't know, there was just a knowing I wish there was a more obvious moment I can share with you. But yeah, I think that that's I mean, it sounds like yes, there was a it was a it's a challenge. And it's been a challenge. And you're still gonna you're I mean, when you stop drinking, you really rediscover who you are and all the beautiful things about you. And then the Shadow Work and all of this stuff. And it's all beautiful, though. But it sounds Yeah, it sounds like that. Knowing it is and sometimes you don't rediscover yourself. Sometimes you're meeting yourself for the first time, you know, so get ready to be blown away because you might find out that you are an incredible human who is just kind of been you know, the volume has been turned down for a long time. So it's a really beautiful process to go through this and learn to trust yourself and learn what you like and what you don't like and and to learn what autonomy feels like and knowing how that you can be the CEO Have your own life and actually make decisions that you want to make because you want to not because you're doing it to please somebody around you, or make somebody else happy. Like actually start living your life for yourself. There's so much freedom in that. And then that's kind of when you figure out, it was never about the alcohol to begin with, you know, it was about what you were drinking over and what you were drinking to numb. Mm hmm. Yeah, and I love that you say meeting yourself for the first time because really, alcohol keeps us stuck in the past. And it's like, we can't catch up to that version of ourselves. that's growing in some way, right? Like you're making all these other decisions on the outside. But then there's like, these inner this inner resilience and this inner maturity and, and growing and development and even asking yourself, you know, one of the things really, like, do I even want this? I never even asked myself that I just kept doing it. Yeah, no, I had, I owned a business for seven years. And, you know, four years into it, I got sober. And then that's when I realized I was like, I don't think I want to do this anymore. Like, I was like, Oh, my God, I spent all those years working this hard. And I don't even think I like it. And, and I would have never figured that out. If I was still drinking, you know, I would have never made the hard decisions to get out of debt and make a career change. And you know, like, that's just crazy. The things that we will tamp down at the sake of God knows what. And, and, and, and refuse an opportunity to get to know ourselves and to even just figure out what we like, you know, it's just I kind of have to laugh at myself now looking back on it, like, Ah, so much wasted time. Yeah, that's amazing. And I know there are things that I look back. And fortunately, I can bring some a sense of humor into some of it. Because if not, then it's like, doom and gloom all the time. Right? Yeah, exactly. It's like, you have to laugh. So you don't want to cry. I know. Yeah. moments I could reflect. And I really try not to, you know, live in regret about any of it and know that, thank goodness that. Now there is the choice that that there is, there is light, right? Like all of this awareness has just opened up. And yeah, it's really it's really beautiful. And I'm just so proud of you. It's awesome. It sounds like you've really put in a lot of work. Yeah. So tell me a little bit about because you talked about this inner joy. And you know, this is kind of the framework of personal development is personal responsibility and knowing that it really isn't the outer, like the outer circumstances create our thoughts, right. And we we have feelings and thoughts about them. But it really is that inner work, and that we are responsible for. So would you say that, as you've transitioned away from alcohol, that you've been able to let the outer world affect you less? Or do you have you have different and better coping mechanisms for how you deal with that, which is out of your control? That's a great question. I would say the short answer is yes. You know, you learn tools, all kinds of tools, you learn tools on how to react to people and places and things you learn the tools on how to manage your responses, how to manage your emotions, how to not let your emotions take over and make your decisions for you. These are skills that most of us probably weren't taught growing up, you know, and then you add a chemical depressant and pour it all over that and it just makes it even worse. So yeah, you know, I've like I said, I've always had anxiety, and that's kind of something I'm always going to have, it's something that's, that's that I can manage now. So I have good days, and I have bad days, but but I have the tools now to really cope and, and try to find ways to thrive and not just survive, you know, we are not meant to just live a bleak and dreary life of bare minimum survival. I don't believe that. And if that's the truth, then I repeat, I just I refuse to believe that, you know, I think that we are meant to be here to find joy and love and to help out other people and just end to seek those relationships with other people of joy and love, you know, through service. And I, I just think we owe that to ourselves. Like we owe the work to ourselves we owe learning how to pick up those heavy tools and use them we owe the tears and the hard nights and those fits of like just getting through that emotional day and doing whatever it takes to not pick up a bottle. We owe that to ourselves because On the other side is a real life that we can actually live in and not just sit outside and be an observer of or be a victim of, you know, we owe that to ourselves. So I just want to encourage anyone who's listening that like, the work is hard. It absolutely is hard. But hard things pay off hard things usually bring great rewards and recovery is no different. Yeah, absolutely. And it's such a great message too. And one of the things I'm really focusing on with my work my son and myself is, is this concept that I call human liberation, which is, knowing that human as human beings we are, our uniqueness is the emotional self. And if we didn't have the emotional body, we would essentially be robots. And so why do we have all of these experiences that are very real, like they happen in real time, so they, they are valid, whether or not we want to continue to feel that way. But emotions, I've been saying emotions aren't problems, to be solved, but experiences to be felt. And, you know, I think we can also hold. One of the big things I think is super supportive in recovery is to know that we can hold multiple emotions at at the same time, and if you really give yourself permission to do that, and to not always need to be 100% happy, but no, you can still love your family, love other people and be grateful for what you have, but that you still have to work through this thing over here personally, like you can hold that we are capable of holding that and really trusting that we're just we're strong, we're stronger than we think we are. And I think it's because we've never been taught any emotional intelligence, you know, right. Now, right, and well, and also, to just to clarify what I said earlier to, you know, we are not so entitled to feel like to not have to feel pain, right. Like, like, I know that I can have a joyful life. But I'm also going to have to go through heartbreak and pain and horrible sadness, because that is life. Right? Yeah. And, but that's one of the things that that I drank over personally, because I didn't want to have to feel the bad stuff, I only wanted to feel the good stuff. Unfortunately, you start canceling all of it out when you, you know, you numb the bad turns out, it's gonna bleed over and you're gonna start numbing all the good to. So you know, we have to feel those good things, you got to know the sour to know, the sweet. This is life in its entire spectrum, we are meant to see all the colors, we're meant to hear all the sounds, we're meant to feel all the feelings that is life, it is a whole spectrum. And we don't get to cherry pick what we do. And that's and that's a good thing. That's a good thing. Yeah, absolutely. And I think it kind of comes back to that perfectionism of what you were talking about the beginning is like, controlling everything and whatever, you know, how we're taught to it's like, you know, people tell their children, like, they don't want them to be sad, don't be sad, like, we want you to be happy, here's a candy bar, whatever it is, you know, and it's like, and I really do think that as we shift in humanity, we're kind of are evolving that paradigm of emotional validation, and, and really, hopefully teaching our children the next generation different things. And you can just see it with a sobriety community that it's becoming a mainstream, not such a taboo thing that's growing. And I really hope that it spreads out into this next paradigm and this kind of awakening of humanity to, to evolve for all humans that this is about because I mean, as you know, that I mean, from the show, you have, you know, there's such a wide range of people that have been, you know, rock bottom or high functioning and people that are making the conscious choice of sobriety. Not that they wouldn't have become addicted or didn't have addictive kind of things already happening. But people are making a really conscious choice to not need to alter their, who they are. And I think that is really awesome. Also, yes, yes, yes. And also something I need to point out was also a great tool that I can't leave this out with journaling, I started, I didn't start journaling until I was about two and a half years in into sobriety. And I deeply regret that I should have I did for like the first 10 days and then I quit, and I really wish I would have kept that up because it's a really valuable tool. It also it just helps you kind of sort out your own feelings when you just get them out and onto the paper. So I can't recommend that enough to everybody start journaling and that that can look like whatever you want. It can be doodling it can be writing a list. It is it should be prescribed. Yeah, absolutely. When you get it out of your head and onto your paper. It's not hiding in back there anymore, right? It comes into the light. Absolutely. It's such an amazing tool. So thank you for that. It's 100% I need to do a show on just tools. I mean, they're all Tools, but I mean, just like real practical things. I have to Well, I have a couple of questions. But what is one thing that you believe now about life? And it was a big question that you never would have believed when you were drinking? Oh, I believe now that I don't have to be perfect. And then that's a wonderful thing. You know, I, I strived for perfection and everything and, and would just the way that I talked to myself, would that I the way that I used to talk to myself was just horrible. You know, I just diminished everything. I shamed myself, because I never did enough. I never went far enough that nothing was ever enough. And to whom? I don't know, right, you know, because I, you know, nobody else was placing those rules on me, I wish my brain was just making them up. So that means No wonder I had against such bad anxiety because I was just creating all these nonsense rules in my head all the time of this way. I had to be for everyone and no one. And, and so now I just I've learned that, that I'm never gonna get there. And that's great. Because no one ever asked me to, you know, write, no one ever told me to that's not required to live a life. So that's a huge, that's a huge one that I learned. I'm sorry, I totally forgot what you ask now. Yeah, just about what you believed that you would never have when you were drinking. And I think that that's such a great one. Because I think that that that anxiety for so many people is it's the shoulds. And it's like, there's no test at the end. No one. Yeah, there is no more. Yeah, there is no end, except for you die and you're done. You know. Right. The only end that's guaranteed. There's definitely you know, it's, I think that the other thing is me think about, you know, probably just I thought that life would be fun. And that's that's kind of where the inspiration for the podcast came from. Because I had this fear of missing out for so long, you know, that I would miss out on so much if I quit drinking. And so I created recovery, happy hour, really for that person. And with that person in mind, that person who's still on the fence, they're still afraid they're going to miss out if they if they give up alcohol. So what I what I learned in sobriety is that there's tons of fun to be had, I'm actually a lot more fun when I'm not drinking. And I was really limiting the amount of fun I could have when I was drinking because I couldn't drive anywhere. You know, I was totally unreliable after 5pm you couldn't understand a damn word. I said. I was not fun. And life is so much more fun now. And that's, I'm so glad I figured that out. Because there's so much more to do now. Yeah, absolutely. I'm so glad that you segwayed into that and that you talked about that. You know that long, it's like long term joy versus short term pleasure, if you can even kind of call it that, you know, at the time, but and it's real, right? Like you're really creating it. It's not this illusion of these chemicals flowing through you. And it's like playful and innocent. And it can be so fun. I have I couldn't agree with you more that there was so much more waiting for me that night, because I was the same way. I was like, Well, what about the partying? I mean, what do we do there? But what about that imaginary vacation? I might go on in six years, I couldn't possibly quit drinking because I might want champagne that one time in the year? 2027. Right. I mean, come on, like In what world? Does that make sense? You know, we imagine these situations we might miss out on that don't even exist yet. While we're ignoring the world around us that we're totally missing out on. We're already experiencing missing out. The fear of this imaginary future isn't real, you know, open your eyes. It's already all around you. Yes, I love that. Because it's so true. It's like we're so worried about missing out that we're not even living. That's so beautiful. I wanted to ask you about what just like so we can talk about something. I mean, this was it has been very positive. But 2020 was, you know, the shit show for everyone in so many ways. And we've had to do a lot of coping and, you know, but there's been so many also good things that I do think have come out of it and growing awareness of a lot of issues. What was a positive highlight for you in 2020? You know, I understand that 2020 was a really hard year, especially in America, but all over the globe, and i i don't i don't want To minimize how how hard it was for so many people, my 2020 was actually pretty great. And then I think that's because, well, one I stayed employed, which is huge, like the fact that I kept my job, during this season in our American history is incredible. But I also chose to really dig into my faith and just try to focus on tapping into my relationship with God. And whatever that looks like to anybody, like just replace that word with something that makes sense to you, like, don't roll your eyes just find a way to relate to this, I really took an opportunity to say, okay, everything's a little bit more quiet now. So I've got less stuff, like, distracting me from, from God from the source. So I kept dig, I dig dug into that in any way I could, whether it was, again, with my community group with with journaling with meditating. I felt amazing benefits from that. And that just having that sort of, um, I don't know, I just tried to keep that like, curious energy around me all the time. And tried to just to seek to seek that out rather than focus on the negative stuff around me. You know, I, I, you know, started playing an instrument, you know, my relationship with my partner went even deeper, I went, you know, I safely traveled and went on, you know, a couple of really cool trips, like, uh, you know, I feel bad saying, you know, it's like, I feel bad, like, like, I'm a jerk for saying, I had a good 2020 Oh, but, but, uh, you know, I mean, I got I, you know, started a, I taught myself about anti racism, I got more involved in politics, you know, I started donating a lot more money. There were some really incredible benefits that came out of last year for me. And one of the things, the thing that kept me sober through it all, though, was having a podcast, no, recovery, happy hour is my accountability. I don't ever want to come on the show and have to tell anyone that I relapsed. Like, that's, again, whatever it takes. And for me, like, that's my, that's what works for me to always keep me sober is like that commitment that I have to the 1000s of people that listen every week for inspiration. I am so glad you said that. And I think that what I was talking about, about being able to hold these polarities of energy is never needed to be shameful or upset, you know, apologetic for living your best life and really just taking the best perspective, because that's always available to us. And I love that you really took advantage of that quiet, introspective time. Because if we can't develop that inner relationship to self and spirit and our connection with our highest self, and, you know, I kind of think we're all just trying to get back home anyway, from the day that we're separated from the womb, but which is that hole that we're always seeking, but no, I think it's beautiful. I think it's inspiring, because, yes, there's stressors, but there's also one, there were so many good things to come out of it. And, you know, some people like you were talking about about employment and things like this, you know, it wasn't there wasn't necessarily the choice for everyone, but there is in every opportunity, a perspective and there's then there's just also being neutral and curious and like, Okay, I'm not in control of this specific thing. But what is how can I make the best out of it? And now what, because I gotta get on with things, right? Yeah, you know, cuz Yeah, cuz life is gonna keep laughing, you know, there may be many 2020s in our future, and I'll be damned if I let my external circumstances control my life again, you know, because like, how you live is by is your response to it. And I'm not letting I'm not letting anything else control my life anymore. So we have to have that perspective. And just just, you know, again, just like we got to release our grip on life, and just let go a little and just trust things are going to work out. Now. We're strong, and we're a lot stronger than we think we are. Yeah, beautiful. I've been working with the practice of surrender a lot and not like giving up my control or my sovereignty. But like letting the mystery unravel in its divine time and know that like there's no rush and enjoying the process and enjoying the failures and the skip being scared and all of it because I really do believe we are here to experience that is that is that we are here to have experiences and like you said, Love and create connection and see our divinity play out in this human form. So it's so beautiful and I just want you to let everyone know about the podcast and how they can find out more about it and what they can come to it for we know like inspiration. And then yeah, I would love to also hear like what you're looking forward to. These are two questions at once. So sorry, what you're looking forward to in 2021. Got it? Well, so my podcast is called recovery happy hour, it's weekly. So a new episode comes out every Tuesday, I usually take a couple of breaks a year, but for the most part, it's every week, everyone on the show, their story of drinking is five minutes or less. For the most part, we focus on what happens beyond the bottle, what happens after you get sober, you know, the fact that life does go on after you quit drinking. So everybody that I have an interview every week, and some you have to be at least a year sober to be on the show. And it tends to be more set, you know, kind of like this kind of like happy hour, just a conversation. So this brings me a ton of joy. And it's, it's been doing it for two and a half years. It's available on any podcast platform. I'm on social media, app recovery, happy hour, if anyone wants to follow me along there. And in 2021, you know, I, I did a retreat in early like the first weekend in January of 2020. Of course, because of COVID. I just wasn't able to plan one for this year. But maybe later in the year, I'll start planning one for 2022. So planning that in 2021 would be awesome. And I you know, it's funny, I'm turning 40 and a few months, and I thought I was gonna have like some sort of like, four months to 40. Like some kind of challenge, you know, I'm always looking for projects to do, right. And no, I was no, not at all I was getting I was doing breath work, which is an amazing tool, Google it, it's amazing. And was given some very strong direction, that I do not need to be looking for more things to do, I need to be looking within myself more. So I think that there's some some more internal work I need to be doing. I think I need to be even more still than I was last year. And just be okay with that. You know, I've got some more work to do on the inside. And we always do that never stops. But stillness i think is a little bit of you know, exploration there is is what 2021 is going to be about for me. Hmm, it sounds lovely. It sounds relaxing and like self care. Oh, actually, no, it actually looks a lot. It actually looks a lot like trauma work and crying. That is so scary, though. Right? Yeah. That's hilarious. Self Care is bubble baths. But it's also like brainspotting therapy and a lot of crying. Yeah. I'm really glad that you said that too. Because, you know, it is the spectrum of all of it, of supporting ourselves and taking that responsibility and saying, like, I need to do this for me so that I can then go out and whatever, you know, pursuits that you end up having. But I think it's amazing to listen, to have that clarity, that inner clarity to really be able to hear the calling and the truth of like what you know, is really the work that you need to do right now. And so, Trisha Lewis, thank you so much for being here. It was so lovely to talk to you again. I'm so excited. And I have a feeling that maybe we will meet in person someday I would love that. Hopefully, without masks on and we can hug and lick doorknobs. Yes, thank you so much for being here. And thank you to everyone for being here on the show listening. Have a wonderful day. Thanks for having me. Hey, if you are loving this podcast, you're definitely ready for the next step. I would love to invite you to learn my three shifts process to interrupt any craving and get you started on your journey to finding freedom from alcohol. All you need to do is click the link in the show notes or on my website Mary Wagstaff coach comm to schedule a private call with me. You will leave the call with the tools for success and feeling competent and excited about entering into your new phase of life and it's completely free to you. I look forward to connecting