TalentX - The Talent Experience Podcast

Ep. 18 - Michael Moran

December 17, 2020 Fuel50 / Michael Moran Season 1 Episode 18
TalentX - The Talent Experience Podcast
Ep. 18 - Michael Moran
Chapters
TalentX - The Talent Experience Podcast
Ep. 18 - Michael Moran
Dec 17, 2020 Season 1 Episode 18
Fuel50 / Michael Moran

UK-based Career Coach and specialist in Employee Engagement, Michael Moran’s passion for creating job satisfaction and engagement through maximizing people’s potential is undeniable. Much of our conversation centers around the findings from the 10Eighty report: The Rise of the Human Focused leader which sees us dive into the concept of ‘And Beyond’ leadership and maintaining a people-first approach. This episode will set you on your way to becoming more employee-centric and designing jobs around people in your organization – as you'll discover it’s worth it!

Michael is CEO and Founder of 10Eighty. He helps organisations design jobs and career paths that maximize employee engagement. Connect with Michael at https://10eighty.co.uk, on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaeldmoran/ or on Twitter @mdmoran10Eighty. Download The Rise of the Human-Focused Leader Report at https://fuel50.co/10ehfl.

For more insightful conversations, visit www.talentxpodcast.com. We hope you enjoy this episode of the TalentX podcast!

Show Notes Transcript

UK-based Career Coach and specialist in Employee Engagement, Michael Moran’s passion for creating job satisfaction and engagement through maximizing people’s potential is undeniable. Much of our conversation centers around the findings from the 10Eighty report: The Rise of the Human Focused leader which sees us dive into the concept of ‘And Beyond’ leadership and maintaining a people-first approach. This episode will set you on your way to becoming more employee-centric and designing jobs around people in your organization – as you'll discover it’s worth it!

Michael is CEO and Founder of 10Eighty. He helps organisations design jobs and career paths that maximize employee engagement. Connect with Michael at https://10eighty.co.uk, on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaeldmoran/ or on Twitter @mdmoran10Eighty. Download The Rise of the Human-Focused Leader Report at https://fuel50.co/10ehfl.

For more insightful conversations, visit www.talentxpodcast.com. We hope you enjoy this episode of the TalentX podcast!

Rhonda Taylor  00:26
Thank you for joining TalentX Podcast. Today we have an incredible guest from across the pond. We have taken this show international today, we have Michael Moran, who is the CEO president of 10Eighty. Welcome, Michael! 

Michael Moran  00:44
Thank you, Rhonda. That's a very big buildup, I'm very privileged to be here this evening.

Rhonda Taylor  00:49
Oh, you know what, I didn't even do the build up. You need to tell the audience, you've authored papers, you are an icon in the HR community in the UK, you're just a pillar of strength in HR. So share with the audience some of your bio. 

Michael Moran  01:17
Thank you. I'm now going to disappoint everybody because after that build up, I can't possibly deliver. But my background is an HR professional. I worked in the National Health Service, and then came to the city to Financial Services, worked for an insurance company, then a commodity broker, after which time I decided I wanted to be first of all close to a business, not being an HR person at all. So I got an MBA, became the Operations Manager at the commodities business, and then decided I wanted to work in a business that had sort of meaning and purpose. So I spent the last 20 years of my life running businesses that help people better manage their careers, or from an organization's perspective, maximizing their potential from an organizational perspective, and hopefully creating along the way job satisfaction of course and employee engagement. So that's my area of expertise. That's what I love doing.

Rhonda Taylor  02:23
Yeah. I can tell you from experience, people, that Michael is one of these people who carries this heart on his sleeve. He really is passionate about what he does. So I'm going to kick this off by asking about the 10Eighty report on The Rise of the Human Focused Leader. You have five main themes highlighted in the report: People First, Beyond Leadership, Technology and Communications, Agility and Collaboration. They're all great themes. But the concept 'And Beyond Leadership' is particularly intriguing. Can you do me a favor, can you dive into this a little more and give us some examples of it? Because I've never heard of it before.

Michael Moran  03:13
I'm so pleased you picked that point, Rhonda, because obviously the research was interviewing business leaders and HR professionals about what they saw as the competencies that leaders needed in this sort of post COVID era. And this thing called 'And Beyond' leadership was a recurring theme. I'm going to give you two examples. I'm going to dare I say one State-side example, and one UK example. I think it's typified by dare I say, the work of Colin Kaepernick, the man who took the knee and as a football player in the States, he has a vision and an activist in trying to create people awareness. 

04:00
In the UK, we've got a guy called Marcus Rashford and Marcus plays football for Manchester United but during Covid, has been drawing awareness to child poverty in the UK, and campaigning with the government to get them to fund school meals. So what we're saying here is that leaders, it's not just about the numbers in the business, we're not even saying it's just about the people who deliver those businesses, we're saying it's about the communities that businesses serve. 

04:33
I'm going to give you one further example to illustrate that from today's news in the UK, of a tech entrepreneur who has created a campaign to say we know in COVID children are having difficulties learning. Remote learning has been tricky, a lot of people don't even have computers. So he's been saying, why don't organizations take their old computers and put them back into schools because organizations have computers, they regrade them probably every two or three years, but the computer itself is still useful. So that's a really good example of somebody says, you know what, we as a business have got to look after our local community. Not just in terms of they're our customers but there's what I call doing the right thing. And that's what 'And Beyond' leadership is all about, doing the right thing.

Rhonda Taylor  05:25
Do you think that these leaders all have a pre-destined passion, that they identified this direction that they go in?

Michael Moran  05:40
You were very kind to say I wear my heart on my sleeve and I'm very passionate. I know more important than any of the time when people aligned the value of the businesses, does it have mission and purpose? Do I subscribe to what it does? Therefore, leaders to get followers need to be at the front of that queue? They need to be exemplars of this is why we doing what we're doing. So absolutely. I think passion is critical to leadership now.

Rhonda Taylor  06:11
Right, right. I'm going to go on, I'm going to pick out another example from the report. People First. It makes sense, that people first. Human Resources should actually be that HUMAN. I have to tell you right now, my pet peeve is when we used to call it the human capital. That's horrible to call HR, Human Capital. Anyways, can you explain your takeaway on the 'people first' approach?

Michael Moran  06:45
Yeah, I'm gonna step back for a minute, because when we went through the Industrial Revolution and if you got the growth of people at Fordism, and scientific management, we thought building successful businesses was making sure they were very efficient, and highly productive. These jobs weren't constructed with human beings in mind, we took the human beings and we adapted them to the technology. I'm going for a very different place, I'm saying today, organizations have got to become employee-centric. You've got to design jobs around the people and I know this will resonate with you and Fuel50. That's the significance of understanding what's important to people, what motivates people, and what it is they like doing, and consequently, are good at. Because if you start designing jobs around those three things, you're gonna have highly engaged people. And that's not the way we've run businesses. I'm saying going forward, it's at the heart of good leadership and management practices. Good leaders are employee-centric.

Rhonda Taylor  07:54
Exactly. I always like that everybody should be doing what they want to be doing, because if they're not, they're not having the opportunity to perform at their optimal level.

Michael Moran  08:09
Exactly.

Rhonda Taylor  08:10
Yeah. So seeing the propelled positive change in adding humanists to leadership and making it a priority. A great positive from this year and, gosh, thank god this year in 2020, there are some positives that are coming out of it, is the human side of leadership. How can leaders maintain this people-first approach? The empathy that we've created from 2020, how do we pay this forward?

Michael Moran  08:50
Okay, well, and you're right to identify. See I'm in Malcolm Gladwell's camp, that it's the tipping point isn't it. What we've discovered, for example, the vast majority of employees can work from home and working from home for a lot of people gives them freedom around when they work, where they work, how they work, and that technology has been around for some time but as a result of COVID, we've had to start constructing jobs around people working from home. So to answer your question  specifically, I also think there's some very fundamental principles about how you run a business. 

09:27
If you design jobs around people you get high levels of engagement, you get greater loyalty, you get greater innovation. Now, they then cascade into the things that we would traditionally associate with business that says, it's about productivity, it's about profitability, and shareholder value. So you see, I think, whereas it may have taken us some time to realize we've got to be human centric and not designing jobs in a different way. Now we've gone that point, there's no going back. I tell this story, I think, pre COVID, if somebody said, we want you to come in the office of Monday morning at nine o'clock for a meeting, you'd say, Okay, I'll be there. Now I'm going to say, you know what? I'm not sure I do want to come in, I can do that job from home. If on the other hand, I can say, can you come in Thursday afternoon, Michael, three o'clock, and I can go out with my friends afterwards. Great idea. 

10:23
What we're seeing here is this tipping point around designing jobs around how people want to do it. And leaders have got to tap into that. The good news is that I think, as a result of this remote working, leaders know they need to stay in touch, they've taken holistic view of employees, mental health and wellbeing has suddenly become very important to us. Whereas before I would probably stop by the office, just to check how you was doing, but now I can't see you, I've got to change my behaviors. So I do think this will be a tipping point, to embed behaviors that make this human focused leader.

Rhonda Taylor  11:01
Leaders have had to change. There's been a lot of leaders that have fallen through the cracks during the past year and it's because they haven't been able to let go of the control. They haven't let go of it. I just think that we've seen a whole new leader, step on the scene. I have heard stories from, we've all laugh at the little one coming barging in in a room during a Zoom meeting or the dog barking when the UPS delivery driver comes, leaders of today just smile at that. That's part of life, that's part of work now. It is part of work, work is life, life is work.

Michael Moran  11:55
Well it gives that window doesn't it. The very fact I'm looking at your room now and you're looking at mine, and you're seeing the Buddha behind me, it gives us an insight into a person that we didn't get when they came into the office. So it's a remarkable thing that as you say, how the fact we have been working remotely has changed people's perspective. But I'm going to mention one issue, of course, because you are right, the same people for command and control or if I can't see what you're doing, I can't guarantee you're doing what you should be doing is a very old style way of thinking. And underpinning it is what I call trust. 

Michael Moran  12:32
They say if you trust your employees, and they know they're trusted, then it's very different model to one of command and control where I'm going to be watching you to make sure you're doing what you're supposed to be doing because I don't trust you and I don't think any way of going back to that. I think employees truly want to work for organizations where there are empowered and engaged and the heart of that is trust. Does my manager, trust me. Do I trust my manager? And that door? We're not going back there? I don't see us going back anytime soon.

Rhonda Taylor  13:04
I hope not. I hope not. I deal with several companies in Japan and the remote worker is really, even during this era, has not become the norm. I believe it's because their leadership programs haven't evolved as they should. Have you given any thought to that Michael?

Michael Moran  13:37
I've certainly seen organizations post COVID in the UK, that have felt the need to get people back into the office and driven exclusively by the managers view that if I can't see what you're doing, how do I know you're doing what you should be doing? But I'm thinking that we've got a position of where we know the technology works and employees are vociferous and vocal about what they want too. That's the whole ethos of building jobs around people is to make sure we meeting the individual's needs as well as the organization's needs. 

14:14
I can't necessarily comment on things in Japan, I'm not knowledgable on that but I do know that this particular genies out of the bottle, you're going to have to design jobs around people and not vice versa. Millennials and the next generation are not going to let go with it, the view with them is I want to work for an organization with meaning and purpose and I want to work when I want to work. By the way, it's a very different construct of employment. I'm going to work for you Rhonda, if you're going to make me more valuable. If you make me more employable I'm going to stay here. The moment you're not doing that in an era where actually the knowledge worker is king I'll work elsewhere. Driving businesses around you are a unit of labor, do as you're told, that era is gone, you're gonna have to sculpt jobs around people.

Rhonda Taylor  15:03
Exactly. In saying that, when I'm in my meetings with some clients in Japan, I say, give it time, because the youth drives it. We're living in a global world now and what happens in one side of the world, no sooner than later starts happening on the other side of the world. 

Michael Moran  15:24
Yeah and I accept speed of change but I always remember, there was a time for example, no organization made anybody redundant in Japan. Didn't happen.

Rhonda Taylor  15:34
Yep and that still is there.

Michael Moran  15:36
Outplacement is the fastest growing business in Japan, because organizations can't make that commitment. But equally, I'm making the point that this issue and if you follow the guy who invented LinkedIn, whose view is it's all about employability for organizations, because you've got to be quick to adapt to innovation and change. So you need that resources. But equally for people, they're going to view you am I more employable in this experience. And that's absolutely critical. Reid Hoffman's view is, organizations are there to make people more employable. They're there to make people more employable.

Rhonda Taylor  16:20
Yeah, interesting. We're kind of winding down but I want to ask, your future proof leader, you talked about that. What are the skills required for the leader of the future? What's going to make them successful?

Michael Moran  16:38
I'm very glad you asked that because obviously, people can get the paper, but there is an appendices on the key skills for leaders. I'm not going to read them all out. But I am going to say, so for example, Influencing. The days of telling people what to do, as opposed to the days of telling people, why are we doing this? Why we should be doing it? So, influencing and communicating. Definitely going down the path of being open and honest and transparent. Being authentic, and building loyalty in your employees. These are now the key building blocks of a human focused leader and I could go on but but I won't. It's all set out in appendix one, the skills you need.

Rhonda Taylor  17:23
Yeah. You know what, Michael, you just described yourself.

Michael Moran  17:28
Oh, you're too kind!

Rhonda Taylor  17:31
Michael, you do so well in your space, and you're so well respected. You always have that hearty laugh that I love. What drives Michael Moran every morning to get up and put a smiley face on and go out and share his passion?

Michael Moran  17:55
Well, it's a good question. It's one, I've thought about quite a bit. I'm very fortunate Rhonda, because I am truly blessed. I do something I love doing. I love helping people find job satisfaction and career success. You see, I think, everybody should be entitled to job satisfaction and career success. The problem is for most people, they don't get that help. Well, I'm fortunate I'm working in a business that truly helps people find that potential. That's why every day I look forward, I always say to people, I would do what I do whether I get paid or not. Because I love it.

Rhonda Taylor  18:37
Wow, that's passion. That's passion, Michael. Yeah. On that note, Michael, I want to thank you so much for being a guest on TalentX. Today, our guest has been Michael Moran from 10Eighty in the UK. Michael, a closing word at all for yourself?

Michael Moran  19:05
My closing with people listening to this is I truly believe everyone's entitled to job satisfaction and career success. Take the time to seek it out. Take the time to seek it out. It's there, the answer is out there.

Rhonda Taylor  19:20
This is Rhonda Taylor from TalentX saying have yourself a good day and remember, we're all in this together. Bye now. 

Michael Moran  19:31
Thank you.