{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":2.68,"endTime":3.68,"body":"How do you live your life"},{"startTime":3.68,"endTime":4.84,"body":"like tomorrow matters?"},{"startTime":4.84,"endTime":6.6,"body":"Perhaps you're already growing food."},{"startTime":6.6,"endTime":7.8,"body":"Consuming less."},{"startTime":7.8,"endTime":9.24,"body":"Connecting with your community."},{"startTime":9.24,"endTime":11.24,"body":"Perhaps you're already thinking hard."},{"startTime":11.24,"endTime":13.16,"body":"Keen to see the world a little slower."},{"startTime":13.16,"endTime":14.92,"body":"Greener. Healthier."},{"startTime":14.92,"endTime":16.72,"body":"But where to begin?"},{"startTime":16.72,"endTime":18.24,"body":"Here on the Future Setting podcast,"},{"startTime":18.24,"endTime":19.72,"body":"we dig deep into the hearts"},{"startTime":19.72,"endTime":20.2,"body":"and minds"},{"startTime":20.2,"endTime":21.6,"body":"of blissfully normal people"},{"startTime":21.6,"endTime":23.68,"body":"doing bloody amazing things,"},{"startTime":23.68,"endTime":24.72,"body":"unearthing their moments"},{"startTime":24.72,"endTime":25.48,"body":"of contradiction,"},{"startTime":25.48,"endTime":27.24,"body":"their hopes and fears for the future"},{"startTime":27.24,"endTime":29.64,"body":"and what galvanizes them to action"},{"startTime":29.64,"endTime":31.52,"body":"in the name of inspiring all of us"},{"startTime":31.52,"endTime":32.48,"body":"to do a little more"},{"startTime":32.48,"endTime":34.0,"body":"in shaping a better future."},{"startTime":34.0,"endTime":37.44,"body":"Today I'm Jade and this is future dating."},{"startTime":39.72,"endTime":40.8,"body":"So you're probably wondering"},{"startTime":40.8,"endTime":42.16,"body":"why you're hearing a new voice."},{"startTime":42.16,"endTime":42.92,"body":"And that's"},{"startTime":42.92,"endTime":45.12,"body":"because I'm teaming up with Jade"},{"startTime":45.12,"endTime":45.92,"body":"to bring you"},{"startTime":45.92,"endTime":47.48,"body":"a special set series"},{"startTime":47.48,"endTime":49.44,"body":"within future studying."},{"startTime":49.44,"endTime":50.88,"body":"I'm Hayley, and I'm here"},{"startTime":50.88,"endTime":51.72,"body":"to be curious"},{"startTime":51.72,"endTime":54.32,"body":"with wisdom keepers about stories"},{"startTime":54.32,"endTime":56.24,"body":"that explore what it means in this day"},{"startTime":56.24,"endTime":59.92,"body":"and age to become heart led beings."},{"startTime":60.32,"endTime":61.68,"body":"Together, we'll explore"},{"startTime":61.68,"endTime":63.8,"body":"how tuning into our inner world"},{"startTime":63.8,"endTime":65.04,"body":"helps us show up and know"},{"startTime":65.04,"endTime":68.04,"body":"love, intention, and connection"},{"startTime":68.08,"endTime":70.44,"body":"to ourselves, our communities,"},{"startTime":70.44,"endTime":72.12,"body":"and of course, the planet."},{"startTime":73.28,"endTime":76.28,"body":"Welcome to stories from the Heart."},{"startTime":76.48,"endTime":77.64,"body":"nature is not a place."},{"startTime":77.64,"endTime":79.44,"body":"Nature is a process"},{"startTime":79.44,"endTime":80.76,"body":"which comes back to that thing"},{"startTime":80.76,"endTime":82.48,"body":"I was saying earlier about evolution."},{"startTime":82.48,"endTime":83.76,"body":"It's constantly dynamic,"},{"startTime":83.76,"endTime":85.24,"body":"constantly adapting,"},{"startTime":85.24,"endTime":87.64,"body":"constantly finding ways forward."},{"startTime":87.64,"endTime":89.72,"body":"It's like a stream that's ever 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globe."},{"startTime":116.2,"endTime":119.04,"body":"Through his label Listening Earth,"},{"startTime":119.04,"endTime":120.52,"body":"he has published recordings"},{"startTime":120.52,"endTime":122.96,"body":"featuring breathtaking habitats"},{"startTime":122.96,"endTime":125.84,"body":"from nearly every continent, albums"},{"startTime":125.84,"endTime":126.4,"body":"that attract"},{"startTime":126.4,"endTime":127.72,"body":"tens of thousands of weekly"},{"startTime":127.72,"endTime":129.6,"body":"streams, and Spotify."},{"startTime":129.6,"endTime":131.36,"body":"His work has been featured"},{"startTime":131.36,"endTime":133.2,"body":"in immersive exhibitions"},{"startTime":133.2,"endTime":134.36,"body":"like Our Country"},{"startTime":134.36,"endTime":136.32,"body":"and Sydney Wildlife World,"},{"startTime":136.32,"endTime":137.64,"body":"as well as major films"},{"startTime":137.64,"endTime":139.56,"body":"including Rabbit Proof, Fence,"},{"startTime":139.56,"endTime":140.68,"body":"and The Jungle Book."},{"startTime":141.88,"endTime":143.2,"body":"Beyond recording,"},{"startTime":143.2,"endTime":144.84,"body":"Andrew is a passionate"},{"startTime":144.84,"endTime":146.76,"body":"speaker and educator,"},{"startTime":146.76,"endTime":147.88,"body":"weaving sound"},{"startTime":147.88,"endTime":150.28,"body":"and storytelling to engage audiences"},{"startTime":150.28,"endTime":150.96,"body":"from TEDx"},{"startTime":150.96,"endTime":153.96,"body":"stages to university classrooms."},{"startTime":154.92,"endTime":157.36,"body":"As president of the Australian Wildlife"},{"startTime":157.36,"endTime":158.96,"body":"Sound Recording Group, he's"},{"startTime":158.96,"endTime":161.28,"body":"nurturing the next generation"},{"startTime":161.28,"endTime":163.28,"body":"of field recordings."},{"startTime":163.28,"endTime":165.4,"body":"So get ready to tune in,"},{"startTime":165.4,"endTime":167.84,"body":"because today we're immersing ourselves"},{"startTime":167.84,"endTime":170.84,"body":"in Nature's Symphony with Andrew,"},{"startTime":171.4,"endTime":172.08,"body":"exploring"},{"startTime":172.08,"endTime":173.64,"body":"not only the sounds of the wild,"},{"startTime":173.64,"endTime":175.96,"body":"but also the deeper connections"},{"startTime":175.96,"endTime":177.16,"body":"between our inner world"},{"startTime":177.16,"endTime":180.16,"body":"and the environment around us."},{"startTime":180.6,"endTime":181.8,"body":"So welcome."},{"startTime":181.8,"endTime":183.04,"body":"Welcome, Andrew."},{"startTime":183.04,"endTime":185.04,"body":"Thanks for jumping on the pod with us."},{"startTime":185.04,"endTime":187.64,"body":"You're in Australia right now"},{"startTime":187.64,"endTime":190.8,"body":"and I'm currently in Peru,"},{"startTime":190.8,"endTime":191.96,"body":"and so"},{"startTime":191.96,"endTime":193.96,"body":"there's a bit of a time 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to"},{"startTime":249.52,"endTime":251.64,"body":"so many continents around the world,"},{"startTime":251.64,"endTime":253.24,"body":"and this is your specialty"},{"startTime":253.24,"endTime":254.4,"body":"is recording"},{"startTime":254.4,"endTime":255.72,"body":"sound and listening"},{"startTime":255.72,"endTime":258.24,"body":"and you wrote the book Deep Listening."},{"startTime":258.24,"endTime":259.56,"body":"I would love to hear."},{"startTime":259.56,"endTime":262.56,"body":"What have been some of your most profound"},{"startTime":262.64,"endTime":265.44,"body":"moments of listening and learning in"},{"startTime":265.44,"endTime":266.32,"body":"these places?"},{"startTime":267.96,"endTime":268.32,"body":"Well."},{"startTime":268.32,"endTime":269.24,"body":"Hello, Hayley."},{"startTime":269.24,"endTime":272.04,"body":"And, and hello to your listeners."},{"startTime":272.04,"endTime":274.56,"body":"Yeah, that's a huge question, isn't it?"},{"startTime":274.56,"endTime":277.04,"body":"With, with that"},{"startTime":277.04,"endTime":278.28,"body":"life experience"},{"startTime":278.28,"endTime":279.88,"body":"of traveling and listening,"},{"startTime":279.88,"endTime":280.52,"body":"it's difficult"},{"startTime":280.52,"endTime":281.64,"body":"to pick out"},{"startTime":281.64,"endTime":284.64,"body":"particular waypoints along the journey."},{"startTime":284.88,"endTime":286.2,"body":"But there are a few,"},{"startTime":286.2,"endTime":289.2,"body":"I think probably the very first one."},{"startTime":289.32,"endTime":291.92,"body":"I've grown up as a bit of a nature"},{"startTime":291.92,"endTime":293.76,"body":"kid in Sydney."},{"startTime":293.76,"endTime":296.84,"body":"I used to go down to the gully below"},{"startTime":296.84,"endTime":297.72,"body":"where I lived,"},{"startTime":297.72,"endTime":298.56,"body":"and I got to know"},{"startTime":298.56,"endTime":300.76,"body":"my birds really well, but,"},{"startTime":300.76,"endTime":302.0,"body":"I was bird watching,"},{"startTime":302.0,"endTime":304.28,"body":"you know, I was looking at,"},{"startTime":304.28,"endTime":309.12,"body":"And I learned to draw birds."},{"startTime":309.2,"endTime":310.72,"body":"I got interested in drawing,"},{"startTime":310.72,"endTime":311.76,"body":"and I ended up going to"},{"startTime":311.76,"endTime":312.92,"body":"the Australian Museum"},{"startTime":312.92,"endTime":314.56,"body":"and using the skin collection,"},{"startTime":314.56,"endTime":315.92,"body":"being invited to do that,"},{"startTime":315.92,"endTime":318.12,"body":"which was a real honor."},{"startTime":318.12,"endTime":320.24,"body":"And it wasn't until much later in my life"},{"startTime":320.24,"endTime":321.24,"body":"that,"},{"startTime":322.28,"endTime":324.44,"body":"I it occurred to me to start"},{"startTime":324.44,"endTime":325.6,"body":"listening, and,"},{"startTime":325.6,"endTime":327.8,"body":"I had a borrowed 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very much"},{"startTime":414.12,"endTime":415.64,"body":"and the trees"},{"startTime":415.64,"endTime":416.96,"body":"were getting thrashed around."},{"startTime":416.96,"endTime":418.36,"body":"And I eventually found"},{"startTime":418.36,"endTime":420.08,"body":"a relatively sheltered"},{"startTime":420.08,"endTime":423.56,"body":"spot in the lee of a, a big rock wall"},{"startTime":424.52,"endTime":425.8,"body":"and just set down there."},{"startTime":425.8,"endTime":428.8,"body":"And so this is a waste of time, isn't it?"},{"startTime":428.96,"endTime":430.24,"body":"And I been I'm"},{"startTime":430.24,"endTime":433.16,"body":"sitting there and I'm reflecting on,"},{"startTime":433.16,"endTime":435.88,"body":"I'd been told several years"},{"startTime":435.88,"endTime":438.2,"body":"previously by some Aboriginal people"},{"startTime":438.2,"endTime":439.44,"body":"and they were saying, oh, yeah,"},{"startTime":439.44,"endTime":440.52,"body":"we went out to this 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wasn't just listening to stuff,"},{"startTime":586.2,"endTime":587.8,"body":"I wasn't just listening to species,"},{"startTime":587.8,"endTime":588.88,"body":"and I wasn't trying"},{"startTime":588.88,"endTime":590.64,"body":"to get a good recording."},{"startTime":590.64,"endTime":592.04,"body":"I was really immersed"},{"startTime":592.04,"endTime":593.76,"body":"in that experience of listening,"},{"startTime":593.76,"endTime":594.6,"body":"and I was hearing"},{"startTime":594.6,"endTime":596.28,"body":"not just the birdsong,"},{"startTime":596.28,"endTime":598.64,"body":"but the elements, the wind."},{"startTime":598.64,"endTime":599.96,"body":"I was hearing time."},{"startTime":599.96,"endTime":601.48,"body":"I was hearing the landscape tape"},{"startTime":601.48,"endTime":604.32,"body":"that that process of erosion."},{"startTime":604.32,"endTime":606.72,"body":"It was a, not only"},{"startTime":606.72,"endTime":608.84,"body":"was I hearing the landscape"},{"startTime":608.84,"endTime":612.0,"body":"in an integral way, but I'd found"},{"startTime":612.08,"endTime":616.16,"body":"a more inclusive way of listening myself."},{"startTime":616.76,"endTime":618.4,"body":"So that was another pivotal moment."},{"startTime":618.4,"endTime":619.2,"body":"And there have been many,"},{"startTime":619.2,"endTime":620.28,"body":"many more that,"},{"startTime":620.28,"endTime":623.28,"body":"you know, just been times"},{"startTime":623.96,"endTime":626.08,"body":"profound and not that,"},{"startTime":626.08,"endTime":627.56,"body":"that one realizes the"},{"startTime":627.56,"endTime":629.08,"body":"depth of, of listening."},{"startTime":630.36,"endTime":633.28,"body":"so many themes of listening within that."},{"startTime":633.28,"endTime":636.04,"body":"And I think as a society"},{"startTime":636.04,"endTime":639.28,"body":"we often think of listening as just this."},{"startTime":640.48,"endTime":643.48,"body":"Oh we're talking"},{"startTime":646.48,"endTime":649.84,"body":"But the, the listening to the elements"},{"startTime":649.84,"endTime":651.32,"body":"or listening to the wind,"},{"startTime":651.32,"endTime":651.96,"body":"the listening"},{"startTime":651.96,"endTime":654.96,"body":"to the animals, to the erosion,"},{"startTime":655.2,"endTime":659.16,"body":"there's such a deeper level of listening"},{"startTime":659.16,"endTime":662.16,"body":"that we can actually"},{"startTime":662.68,"endTime":665.56,"body":"That's right."},{"startTime":665.56,"endTime":666.4,"body":"our environment."},{"startTime":666.4,"endTime":667.4,"body":"And that, in turn,"},{"startTime":667.4,"endTime":669.76,"body":"can teach us about ourselves."},{"startTime":669.76,"endTime":671.96,"body":"And it's interesting"},{"startTime":671.96,"endTime":673.72,"body":"because I've, I've sat with this,"},{"startTime":673.72,"endTime":675.48,"body":"this value of mine as well,"},{"startTime":675.48,"endTime":676.36,"body":"which is listening."},{"startTime":676.36,"endTime":679.6,"body":"And I, have worked in the film industry"},{"startTime":679.6,"endTime":680.8,"body":"for a long time"},{"startTime":680.8,"endTime":682.96,"body":"and have interviewed a lot of people."},{"startTime":682.96,"endTime":686.84,"body":"And so when I record video or anything,"},{"startTime":686.84,"endTime":687.92,"body":"I'm actually tuning in"},{"startTime":687.92,"endTime":690.6,"body":"to not just the person in front of me,"},{"startTime":690.6,"endTime":692.08,"body":"but I'm thinking about,"},{"startTime":692.08,"endTime":693.2,"body":"oh, what are the the"},{"startTime":693.2,"endTime":694.44,"body":"what can I film the fire?"},{"startTime":694.44,"endTime":695.08,"body":"Can I capture"},{"startTime":695.08,"endTime":696.96,"body":"the sound of the fire crackling?"},{"startTime":696.96,"endTime":698.32,"body":"Can I capture the,"},{"startTime":698.32,"endTime":698.64,"body":"you know,"},{"startTime":698.64,"endTime":699.76,"body":"the actual essence"},{"startTime":699.76,"endTime":701.64,"body":"that creates the whole story"},{"startTime":701.64,"endTime":703.28,"body":"of a place rather than just"},{"startTime":709.08,"endTime":710.92,"body":"extremely good"},{"startTime":710.92,"endTime":712.0,"body":"filmmaking is"},{"startTime":712.0,"endTime":714.24,"body":"they think about these deeper layers."},{"startTime":714.24,"endTime":719.16,"body":"And, it also goes hand in hand."},{"startTime":719.16,"endTime":720.64,"body":"I've got a lot of friends in the"},{"startTime":720.64,"endTime":722.44,"body":"the healing spaces as well,"},{"startTime":722.44,"endTime":725.08,"body":"and in right to passage spaces and,"},{"startTime":725.08,"endTime":726.04,"body":"a lot of friends"},{"startTime":726.04,"endTime":728.0,"body":"who actually do parts work."},{"startTime":728.0,"endTime":729.4,"body":"I don't know if you've heard about it,"},{"startTime":729.4,"endTime":729.92,"body":"but it's it's"},{"startTime":729.92,"endTime":731.6,"body":"sort of like your,"},{"startTime":731.6,"endTime":734.12,"body":"your tuning into your body and your"},{"startTime":734.12,"endTime":736.0,"body":"what your body is telling you."},{"startTime":736.0,"endTime":737.32,"body":"And, you know,"},{"startTime":737.32,"endTime":738.8,"body":"your heart might be in pain"},{"startTime":738.8,"endTime":740.04,"body":"or your stomach."},{"startTime":740.04,"endTime":742.04,"body":"And when you really tune in"},{"startTime":742.04,"endTime":745.68,"body":"and ask your body questions as well"},{"startTime":745.68,"endTime":746.92,"body":"and listen to your body,"},{"startTime":746.92,"endTime":749.56,"body":"it comes up with answers"},{"startTime":749.56,"endTime":751.68,"body":"as well that go behind the stories"},{"startTime":751.68,"endTime":752.56,"body":"behind your body."},{"startTime":752.56,"endTime":755.56,"body":"And so"},{"startTime":758.48,"endTime":760.32,"body":"Well,"},{"startTime":760.32,"endTime":763.04,"body":"our body really is is our first interface"},{"startTime":763.04,"endTime":765.0,"body":"with the natural world."},{"startTime":765.0,"endTime":767.44,"body":"And so our physical senses"},{"startTime":767.44,"endTime":770.52,"body":"and not just sights and smells and so on,"},{"startTime":770.52,"endTime":772.56,"body":"but our internal senses"},{"startTime":772.56,"endTime":774.72,"body":"that I think you're referencing here."},{"startTime":774.72,"endTime":776.64,"body":"And our sense of"},{"startTime":776.64,"endTime":778.32,"body":"what's happening inside our body."},{"startTime":778.32,"endTime":780.8,"body":"It's, it's as much instinct and intuition"},{"startTime":780.8,"endTime":782.2,"body":"as it is about,"},{"startTime":782.2,"endTime":783.36,"body":"you know, pain or a"},{"startTime":783.36,"endTime":784.8,"body":"sense of, of wellness."},{"startTime":786.12,"endTime":787.88,"body":"And to me, the essence"},{"startTime":787.88,"endTime":789.24,"body":"of, of deep listening."},{"startTime":789.24,"endTime":791.04,"body":"The first thing that you need to do"},{"startTime":791.04,"endTime":792.0,"body":"when you go out"},{"startTime":792.0,"endTime":794.04,"body":"into, into the bush"},{"startTime":794.04,"endTime":795.36,"body":"and natural environment"},{"startTime":795.36,"endTime":799.52,"body":"and is to slow down and be quiet."},{"startTime":800.28,"endTime":801.92,"body":"If you've got any devices,"},{"startTime":801.92,"endTime":804.48,"body":"turn to turn the gadgets off."},{"startTime":804.48,"endTime":806.8,"body":"And,"},{"startTime":806.8,"endTime":809.52,"body":"and then extend your senses"},{"startTime":809.52,"endTime":811.32,"body":"and you're extending your senses"},{"startTime":811.32,"endTime":813.12,"body":"into the world around you."},{"startTime":813.12,"endTime":816.76,"body":"And it's it's odd to have to suggest"},{"startTime":816.76,"endTime":819.32,"body":"this as being a novel"},{"startTime":819.32,"endTime":821.92,"body":"thing that we do, because,"},{"startTime":821.92,"endTime":824.04,"body":"you know, we live in such a noisy world"},{"startTime":824.04,"endTime":827.0,"body":"and there's so much going on around us."},{"startTime":827.0,"endTime":828.28,"body":"We've become very,"},{"startTime":828.28,"endTime":831.56,"body":"very good at filtering out the stuff"},{"startTime":831.56,"endTime":832.64,"body":"that is"},{"startTime":832.64,"endTime":834.0,"body":"what you might call"},{"startTime":834.0,"endTime":835.4,"body":"irrelevant information."},{"startTime":835.4,"endTime":836.64,"body":"You know, the sound of a plane"},{"startTime":836.64,"endTime":837.4,"body":"going over"},{"startTime":837.4,"endTime":839.28,"body":"or traffic off the highway"},{"startTime":839.28,"endTime":841.8,"body":"a kilometer away or whatever it might be."},{"startTime":841.8,"endTime":843.32,"body":"The next door neighbor's leaf blower."},{"startTime":844.4,"endTime":845.6,"body":"And we've become very good"},{"startTime":845.6,"endTime":848.72,"body":"at filtering all that junk noise out."},{"startTime":849.36,"endTime":850.8,"body":"But in the process,"},{"startTime":850.8,"endTime":853.8,"body":"we filter out the environment,"},{"startTime":854.44,"endTime":857.44,"body":"because that is our environment."},{"startTime":857.92,"endTime":859.92,"body":"So when you go out into nature, it's"},{"startTime":859.92,"endTime":861.56,"body":"one of the few times in life"},{"startTime":861.56,"endTime":863.2,"body":"when you can actually relax"},{"startTime":863.2,"endTime":864.96,"body":"and open your ears up again."},{"startTime":864.96,"endTime":866.24,"body":"You can be vulnerable"},{"startTime":866.24,"endTime":866.96,"body":"to listening"},{"startTime":866.96,"endTime":869.8,"body":"to the whole world around you."},{"startTime":869.8,"endTime":871.2,"body":"And it's a lovely exercise,"},{"startTime":871.2,"endTime":871.8,"body":"I think, to"},{"startTime":871.8,"endTime":873.88,"body":"to actually do that consciously,"},{"startTime":873.88,"endTime":875.84,"body":"where you scan in every direction,"},{"startTime":875.84,"endTime":877.2,"body":"you start in front of you"},{"startTime":877.2,"endTime":878.88,"body":"without turning your head."},{"startTime":878.88,"endTime":881.88,"body":"Just focus your listening attention"},{"startTime":881.88,"endTime":885.0,"body":"in, in different, different directions."},{"startTime":885.96,"endTime":886.8,"body":"And you'll notice"},{"startTime":886.8,"endTime":888.76,"body":"that sounds come from particular places,"},{"startTime":888.76,"endTime":890.92,"body":"particular directions and,"},{"startTime":890.92,"endTime":892.24,"body":"that they might be directions"},{"startTime":892.24,"endTime":894.96,"body":"that are quite silent and"},{"startTime":894.96,"endTime":897.96,"body":"to listening to those silences because,"},{"startTime":898.44,"endTime":901.2,"body":"nature has a presence"},{"startTime":901.2,"endTime":902.52,"body":"even in its silence."},{"startTime":902.52,"endTime":904.6,"body":"And to become familiar"},{"startTime":904.6,"endTime":907.4,"body":"and comfortable with silence"},{"startTime":907.4,"endTime":911.48,"body":"is a very important cognitive skill."},{"startTime":911.72,"endTime":913.8,"body":"It's it's the antidote to boredom,"},{"startTime":915.28,"endTime":917.28,"body":"to actually be able to just relax"},{"startTime":917.28,"endTime":919.2,"body":"into the stillness and silence"},{"startTime":919.2,"endTime":921.8,"body":"and feel the aliveness that's there,"},{"startTime":921.8,"endTime":923.12,"body":"whether that's within you,"},{"startTime":923.12,"endTime":923.84,"body":"whether it's"},{"startTime":923.84,"endTime":926.84,"body":"sensually around you in sound."},{"startTime":927.76,"endTime":930.48,"body":"So for me,"},{"startTime":930.48,"endTime":932.16,"body":"listening is really important"},{"startTime":932.16,"endTime":936.56,"body":"because it isn't just one of our senses,"},{"startTime":936.56,"endTime":937.92,"body":"you know, everything that we know about"},{"startTime":937.92,"endTime":938.28,"body":"the world"},{"startTime":938.28,"endTime":939.32,"body":"is essentially comes"},{"startTime":939.32,"endTime":942.2,"body":"through our senses internal, external,"},{"startTime":942.2,"endTime":944.8,"body":"but listening is special."},{"startTime":944.8,"endTime":947.4,"body":"And the reason is that it is the sense"},{"startTime":947.4,"endTime":949.16,"body":"by which we initiate"},{"startTime":949.16,"endTime":952.16,"body":"and maintain relationships."},{"startTime":952.2,"endTime":955.2,"body":"And the world is all about relationships."},{"startTime":955.56,"endTime":957.56,"body":"Everything is interacting"},{"startTime":957.56,"endTime":958.68,"body":"with everything else"},{"startTime":958.68,"endTime":960.52,"body":"dynamically in the moment,"},{"startTime":960.52,"endTime":961.8,"body":"constantly flowing"},{"startTime":961.8,"endTime":963.48,"body":"and changing, responding,"},{"startTime":963.48,"endTime":965.64,"body":"adapting, and so on."},{"startTime":965.64,"endTime":968.48,"body":"So listening tells you what's going on"},{"startTime":968.48,"endTime":971.4,"body":"in a way that, the visual sense,"},{"startTime":971.4,"endTime":972.76,"body":"for instance, doesn't do."},{"startTime":972.76,"endTime":974.08,"body":"When we look at the world,"},{"startTime":974.08,"endTime":976.44,"body":"our eyes focus at a particular distance"},{"startTime":977.4,"endTime":978.88,"body":"and we see"},{"startTime":978.88,"endTime":981.0,"body":"objects, we identify objects,"},{"startTime":981.0,"endTime":981.6,"body":"and that becomes"},{"startTime":981.6,"endTime":983.04,"body":"the basis of our language."},{"startTime":983.04,"endTime":986.12,"body":"You know that all the nouns that we use"},{"startTime":986.12,"endTime":989.12,"body":"in the world and, and,"},{"startTime":989.2,"endTime":992.52,"body":"and so sound, sorry, sight divides"},{"startTime":992.52,"endTime":994.16,"body":"the world up."},{"startTime":994.16,"endTime":995.92,"body":"Whereas when you're listening,"},{"startTime":995.92,"endTime":997.88,"body":"you might be hearing individual"},{"startTime":997.88,"endTime":999.96,"body":"sounds that you can name,"},{"startTime":999.96,"endTime":1002.56,"body":"but you're hearing them in relationship."},{"startTime":1002.56,"endTime":1004.88,"body":"And so when you're listening,"},{"startTime":1004.88,"endTime":1006.16,"body":"you're kind of putting the world"},{"startTime":1006.16,"endTime":1007.28,"body":"back together again."},{"startTime":1007.28,"endTime":1010.44,"body":"I like to think, and, you know,"},{"startTime":1010.44,"endTime":1011.52,"body":"I said earlier on that"},{"startTime":1011.52,"endTime":1014.04,"body":"there are only a very rare occasions"},{"startTime":1014.04,"endTime":1015.64,"body":"where you get that sense"},{"startTime":1015.64,"endTime":1016.52,"body":"of listening"},{"startTime":1016.52,"endTime":1017.72,"body":"to the whole integrated"},{"startTime":1017.72,"endTime":1019.6,"body":"sound world around you."},{"startTime":1019.6,"endTime":1020.68,"body":"One of them is"},{"startTime":1020.68,"endTime":1021.32,"body":"when you're"},{"startTime":1021.32,"endTime":1022.8,"body":"outside in nature,"},{"startTime":1022.8,"endTime":1023.48,"body":"and the other one is"},{"startTime":1023.48,"endTime":1025.52,"body":"when you're listening to music,"},{"startTime":1025.52,"endTime":1028.08,"body":"because music is a complete, integrated"},{"startTime":1028.08,"endTime":1028.84,"body":"sound world"},{"startTime":1028.84,"endTime":1029.2,"body":"and you're"},{"startTime":1029.2,"endTime":1030.24,"body":"totally immersed"},{"startTime":1030.24,"endTime":1031.52,"body":"in it, and you're drawing"},{"startTime":1031.52,"endTime":1033.2,"body":"meaning from the relationships"},{"startTime":1033.2,"endTime":1034.2,"body":"between the sounds."},{"startTime":1035.24,"endTime":1037.16,"body":"So it's very similar in in deep"},{"startTime":1037.16,"endTime":1038.28,"body":"listening to nature,"},{"startTime":1038.28,"endTime":1039.12,"body":"you're outdoors,"},{"startTime":1039.12,"endTime":1039.72,"body":"you're hearing"},{"startTime":1039.72,"endTime":1041.6,"body":"all the different voices, but"},{"startTime":1041.6,"endTime":1043.24,"body":"and you're identifying the voices"},{"startTime":1043.24,"endTime":1045.12,"body":"and, and behavioral associations"},{"startTime":1045.12,"endTime":1046.16,"body":"of different species."},{"startTime":1046.16,"endTime":1047.32,"body":"You know what they're"},{"startTime":1047.32,"endTime":1049.52,"body":"you can tell what they're doing."},{"startTime":1049.52,"endTime":1052.52,"body":"I often think of, when you're listening"},{"startTime":1052.52,"endTime":1053.96,"body":"to nature, you're,"},{"startTime":1053.96,"endTime":1056.76,"body":"you're hearing a story being told to you,"},{"startTime":1056.76,"endTime":1057.64,"body":"and it's the story"},{"startTime":1057.64,"endTime":1059.2,"body":"of what's going on around you"},{"startTime":1059.2,"endTime":1061.64,"body":"at that time."},{"startTime":1061.64,"endTime":1063.28,"body":"You know, certain birds are feeding"},{"startTime":1063.28,"endTime":1065.2,"body":"or that might be flocking,"},{"startTime":1065.2,"endTime":1067.04,"body":"their contact calls."},{"startTime":1067.04,"endTime":1069.68,"body":"They might even be a moment of alarm."},{"startTime":1069.68,"endTime":1072.16,"body":"So there are all these things going on"},{"startTime":1072.16,"endTime":1073.88,"body":"which with familiarity,"},{"startTime":1073.88,"endTime":1074.44,"body":"you can"},{"startTime":1074.44,"endTime":1077.44,"body":"you can read that, that narrative."},{"startTime":1078.16,"endTime":1080.84,"body":"And it's similar in music,"},{"startTime":1080.84,"endTime":1083.0,"body":"you know, that the skills that you have,"},{"startTime":1083.0,"endTime":1083.76,"body":"the cognitive"},{"startTime":1083.76,"endTime":1084.92,"body":"skills of drawing"},{"startTime":1084.92,"endTime":1087.04,"body":"meaning from music, are"},{"startTime":1088.08,"endTime":1088.84,"body":"the skill of"},{"startTime":1088.84,"endTime":1091.84,"body":"listening to component parts and hearing,"},{"startTime":1091.96,"endTime":1093.28,"body":"and integrity"},{"startTime":1093.28,"endTime":1095.2,"body":"and deriving meaning from that."},{"startTime":1095.2,"endTime":1096.6,"body":"And it's very similar skill,"},{"startTime":1096.6,"endTime":1097.08,"body":"I think,"},{"startTime":1097.08,"endTime":1099.12,"body":"than listening to the whole soundscape"},{"startTime":1099.12,"endTime":1102.12,"body":"in, in, at one time, in one place."},{"startTime":1102.8,"endTime":1104.0,"body":"So listening is,"},{"startTime":1104.0,"endTime":1105.56,"body":"has all these,"},{"startTime":1105.56,"endTime":1108.0,"body":"these cognitive connotations."},{"startTime":1108.0,"endTime":1111.12,"body":"And then the ultimate one really"},{"startTime":1111.72,"endTime":1114.72,"body":"is that, listening"},{"startTime":1115.16,"endTime":1118.16,"body":"comes our limbic system"},{"startTime":1118.4,"endTime":1121.88,"body":"and our limbic system, our emotions,"},{"startTime":1122.0,"endTime":1123.12,"body":"particularly that,"},{"startTime":1123.12,"endTime":1126.12,"body":"cortisol fight or flight response."},{"startTime":1126.92,"endTime":1129.68,"body":"When you extend yourself out into nature"},{"startTime":1129.68,"endTime":1130.68,"body":"and you're calming"},{"startTime":1130.68,"endTime":1133.04,"body":"and you're slowing yourself down,"},{"startTime":1133.04,"endTime":1136.04,"body":"it calms that limbic system."},{"startTime":1136.16,"endTime":1139.16,"body":"And in our modern world,"},{"startTime":1139.84,"endTime":1142.04,"body":"that's what's hijacked by"},{"startTime":1142.04,"endTime":1145.48,"body":"consumerism, by, political messaging,"},{"startTime":1146.16,"endTime":1147.6,"body":"particularly right wing"},{"startTime":1147.6,"endTime":1148.8,"body":"political messaging."},{"startTime":1148.8,"endTime":1151.0,"body":"It's all about activating your,"},{"startTime":1151.0,"endTime":1152.12,"body":"your fear"},{"startTime":1152.12,"endTime":1153.84,"body":"and your you've got to have this"},{"startTime":1153.84,"endTime":1154.36,"body":"and you got it."},{"startTime":1154.36,"endTime":1154.96,"body":"You got to do it"},{"startTime":1154.96,"endTime":1155.8,"body":"now, and you've got"},{"startTime":1155.8,"endTime":1156.76,"body":"to be more productive,"},{"startTime":1156.76,"endTime":1157.48,"body":"and you've got to do this."},{"startTime":1157.48,"endTime":1158.24,"body":"And you go to that."},{"startTime":1159.92,"endTime":1161.56,"body":"So listening"},{"startTime":1161.56,"endTime":1164.24,"body":"allows you to just slow down"},{"startTime":1164.24,"endTime":1166.16,"body":"and take in information"},{"startTime":1166.16,"endTime":1167.2,"body":"at a slower pace."},{"startTime":1167.2,"endTime":1168.2,"body":"Nature doesn't"},{"startTime":1168.2,"endTime":1169.24,"body":"throw information"},{"startTime":1169.24,"endTime":1172.52,"body":"at you as quickly as modern media does."},{"startTime":1173.24,"endTime":1175.36,"body":"It doesn't demand your attention."},{"startTime":1175.36,"endTime":1178.52,"body":"You have to voluntarily open yourself"},{"startTime":1178.52,"endTime":1181.36,"body":"and be vulnerable to that information."},{"startTime":1181.36,"endTime":1183.12,"body":"So, yeah,"},{"startTime":1183.12,"endTime":1186.12,"body":"listening has all these resonances,"},{"startTime":1186.12,"endTime":1187.4,"body":"that are essential"},{"startTime":1187.4,"endTime":1190.4,"body":"to finding your stability."},{"startTime":1190.8,"endTime":1193.8,"body":"And, and integration"},{"startTime":1193.8,"endTime":1196.8,"body":"with the real world,"},{"startTime":1197.64,"endTime":1200.6,"body":"in a way that our other senses don't."},{"startTime":1200.6,"endTime":1202.28,"body":"So deep listening is,"},{"startTime":1202.28,"endTime":1204.68,"body":"it's a profound journey."},{"startTime":1204.68,"endTime":1206.08,"body":"It doesn't happen straight away."},{"startTime":1206.08,"endTime":1206.68,"body":"You really need"},{"startTime":1206.68,"endTime":1208.72,"body":"to cultivate this sense of listening."},{"startTime":1208.72,"endTime":1211.72,"body":"And, and so it changes you."},{"startTime":1213.56,"endTime":1215.0,"body":"Yeah. Absolutely."},{"startTime":1215.0,"endTime":1218.0,"body":"And it's interesting because we see this,"},{"startTime":1218.16,"endTime":1221.16,"body":"we feel this on such a deep level"},{"startTime":1221.48,"endTime":1224.48,"body":"Feeling."},{"startTime":1228.84,"endTime":1229.68,"body":"hear that song"},{"startTime":1229.68,"endTime":1230.92,"body":"that you feel it,"},{"startTime":1230.92,"endTime":1233.04,"body":"you feel the story behind"},{"startTime":1233.04,"endTime":1234.48,"body":"it and you feel that in your"},{"startTime":1245.92,"endTime":1248.92,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1269.48,"endTime":1272.48,"body":"Well."},{"startTime":1273.92,"endTime":1276.92,"body":"Now."},{"startTime":1285.92,"endTime":1286.72,"body":"Well,"},{"startTime":1286.72,"endTime":1288.76,"body":"look, this might be a good occasion to,"},{"startTime":1288.76,"endTime":1290.56,"body":"to play you a recording,"},{"startTime":1290.56,"endTime":1291.76,"body":"because this was another"},{"startTime":1291.76,"endTime":1294.76,"body":"one of these pivotal moments."},{"startTime":1294.8,"endTime":1297.8,"body":"I was in the outback, and,"},{"startTime":1298.6,"endTime":1300.8,"body":"I was recording for several weeks,"},{"startTime":1300.8,"endTime":1302.32,"body":"and one of the,"},{"startTime":1302.32,"endTime":1303.84,"body":"the birds in inland"},{"startTime":1303.84,"endTime":1305.68,"body":"Australia is the Terezin crows."},{"startTime":1305.68,"endTime":1308.28,"body":"They're like crows, ravens"},{"startTime":1308.28,"endTime":1310.0,"body":"and other corvids."},{"startTime":1310.0,"endTime":1311.2,"body":"They're very intelligent"},{"startTime":1311.2,"endTime":1313.12,"body":"and social birds."},{"startTime":1313.12,"endTime":1314.92,"body":"Some species of Toolmakers"},{"startTime":1314.92,"endTime":1317.92,"body":"and use this, like the Caledonian crow."},{"startTime":1318.08,"endTime":1320.4,"body":"But they're very curious species."},{"startTime":1320.4,"endTime":1321.88,"body":"And on this occasion"},{"startTime":1321.88,"endTime":1324.4,"body":"I put my microphones out."},{"startTime":1324.4,"endTime":1326.4,"body":"I often do this very early in the morning"},{"startTime":1326.4,"endTime":1328.56,"body":"to 3 a.m.,"},{"startTime":1328.56,"endTime":1329.96,"body":"and I put them on a tripod"},{"startTime":1329.96,"endTime":1330.84,"body":"with a long battery,"},{"startTime":1330.84,"endTime":1333.24,"body":"and I leave them there to record."},{"startTime":1333.24,"endTime":1336.6,"body":"And, I'd come back later in the day"},{"startTime":1336.6,"endTime":1337.6,"body":"and pick up my rig"},{"startTime":1337.6,"endTime":1339.16,"body":"and have a listen to the adventures"},{"startTime":1339.16,"endTime":1340.16,"body":"that my mics have head"},{"startTime":1340.16,"endTime":1342.2,"body":"see what they've picked up."},{"startTime":1342.2,"endTime":1344.04,"body":"And I'd often find that the local crows"},{"startTime":1344.04,"endTime":1345.68,"body":"had come to check out this strange"},{"startTime":1345.68,"endTime":1347.52,"body":"object in their their domain."},{"startTime":1348.76,"endTime":1349.48,"body":"And, but"},{"startTime":1349.48,"endTime":1350.68,"body":"on one morning, a bird"},{"startTime":1350.68,"endTime":1352.52,"body":"did something really quite extraordinary."},{"startTime":1352.52,"endTime":1353.76,"body":"It, it flew in"},{"startTime":1353.76,"endTime":1356.76,"body":"and it gave half a dozen calls,"},{"startTime":1356.76,"endTime":1359.44,"body":"and then it flopped down to the ground,"},{"startTime":1359.44,"endTime":1361.2,"body":"and it hopped along until it."},{"startTime":1361.2,"endTime":1361.88,"body":"I could hear that"},{"startTime":1361.88,"endTime":1364.6,"body":"it was right underneath my microphones."},{"startTime":1364.6,"endTime":1366.96,"body":"And then it began vocalizing."},{"startTime":1366.96,"endTime":1369.96,"body":"And I'll let you hear this recording now."},{"startTime":1405.36,"endTime":1405.76,"body":"All right."},{"startTime":1405.76,"endTime":1408.44,"body":"So basically what happens is you hear it,"},{"startTime":1408.44,"endTime":1409.28,"body":"it does all this,"},{"startTime":1409.28,"endTime":1410.4,"body":"and then it starts doing"},{"startTime":1410.4,"endTime":1413.52,"body":"these really wonderful sort of goggling"},{"startTime":1413.6,"endTime":1416.6,"body":"ugly, sort of like"},{"startTime":1420.08,"endTime":1423.08,"body":"And then it finishes off with a,"},{"startTime":1423.28,"endTime":1426.16,"body":"as if to say, boring nothing here."},{"startTime":1426.16,"endTime":1427.72,"body":"And then it gives a whole lot of calls"},{"startTime":1427.72,"endTime":1430.48,"body":"and it flies off."},{"startTime":1430.48,"endTime":1432.76,"body":"So"},{"startTime":1432.76,"endTime":1434.08,"body":"when I listen to this,"},{"startTime":1434.08,"endTime":1435.28,"body":"this is another one of these"},{"startTime":1435.28,"endTime":1436.36,"body":"pivotal moments."},{"startTime":1436.36,"endTime":1439.16,"body":"And I, I,"},{"startTime":1440.36,"endTime":1441.4,"body":"you know,"},{"startTime":1441.4,"endTime":1441.96,"body":"up to this"},{"startTime":1441.96,"endTime":1443.04,"body":"point, I'd been thinking"},{"startTime":1443.04,"endTime":1444.4,"body":"in terms of species"},{"startTime":1444.4,"endTime":1445.88,"body":"identifying species,"},{"startTime":1445.88,"endTime":1448.64,"body":"recognizing the vocalization"},{"startTime":1448.64,"endTime":1450.32,"body":"in terms of its behavior"},{"startTime":1450.32,"endTime":1452.4,"body":"and the role that it played in its life"},{"startTime":1452.4,"endTime":1453.84,"body":"and so on."},{"startTime":1453.84,"endTime":1455.72,"body":"And I realized this is the first time"},{"startTime":1455.72,"endTime":1458.08,"body":"it really hit me as quite a,"},{"startTime":1458.08,"endTime":1461.08,"body":"quite a with a profound shock that"},{"startTime":1461.96,"endTime":1464.96,"body":"I'm actually listening to another mind."},{"startTime":1465.4,"endTime":1467.76,"body":"And it's a mind that lives in the"},{"startTime":1467.76,"endTime":1469.0,"body":"same world that I do,"},{"startTime":1469.0,"endTime":1471.52,"body":"but it lives in a very different way."},{"startTime":1471.52,"endTime":1472.64,"body":"But it's not that different"},{"startTime":1472.64,"endTime":1474.16,"body":"that I can empathize with that"},{"startTime":1474.16,"endTime":1475.12,"body":"I can't hear."},{"startTime":1475.12,"endTime":1476.64,"body":"It's curiosity"},{"startTime":1476.64,"endTime":1478.08,"body":"and even it's disappointment"},{"startTime":1478.08,"endTime":1481.36,"body":"that that, call at the end and it"},{"startTime":1481.36,"endTime":1482.28,"body":"and moving along,"},{"startTime":1482.28,"endTime":1484.48,"body":"maybe nothing to say here."},{"startTime":1484.48,"endTime":1487.48,"body":"And you know, that"},{"startTime":1487.48,"endTime":1488.92,"body":"is essentially"},{"startTime":1488.92,"endTime":1491.12,"body":"I'm empathizing with what I'm hearing."},{"startTime":1491.12,"endTime":1492.64,"body":"I'm empathizing with this bird."},{"startTime":1492.64,"endTime":1494.24,"body":"And in the in the case of the Crow,"},{"startTime":1494.24,"endTime":1495.72,"body":"it's relatively straightforward."},{"startTime":1495.72,"endTime":1497.76,"body":"I can recognize its curiosity"},{"startTime":1499.04,"endTime":1500.08,"body":"with other species."},{"startTime":1500.08,"endTime":1502.12,"body":"Perhaps it's a little bit more difficult,"},{"startTime":1502.12,"endTime":1503.52,"body":"you know, frogs or insects,"},{"startTime":1503.52,"endTime":1504.6,"body":"but you can still hear"},{"startTime":1504.6,"endTime":1505.84,"body":"the voice of the animal."},{"startTime":1505.84,"endTime":1508.36,"body":"You can still hear it giving,"},{"startTime":1508.36,"endTime":1510.56,"body":"announcing its presence in the world"},{"startTime":1510.56,"endTime":1511.72,"body":"and communicating."},{"startTime":1511.72,"endTime":1514.0,"body":"And you can get a sense of its sentience."},{"startTime":1514.0,"endTime":1515.2,"body":"It might be very different"},{"startTime":1515.2,"endTime":1517.0,"body":"to what we think of as sentience,"},{"startTime":1517.0,"endTime":1518.56,"body":"but nevertheless,"},{"startTime":1518.56,"endTime":1521.0,"body":"you can recognize its aliveness"},{"startTime":1521.0,"endTime":1522.6,"body":"and its right to share this world"},{"startTime":1522.6,"endTime":1524.08,"body":"with us."},{"startTime":1524.08,"endTime":1525.84,"body":"And the essence of this is empathy."},{"startTime":1525.84,"endTime":1527.84,"body":"And I think empathy is really important"},{"startTime":1527.84,"endTime":1529.16,"body":"because,"},{"startTime":1529.16,"endTime":1530.24,"body":"you know, if you sit down"},{"startTime":1530.24,"endTime":1531.52,"body":"and you talk to somebody"},{"startTime":1531.52,"endTime":1533.12,"body":"who's worldview"},{"startTime":1533.12,"endTime":1533.72,"body":"and life"},{"startTime":1533.72,"endTime":1535.32,"body":"values and experience"},{"startTime":1535.32,"endTime":1537.04,"body":"are different to your own,"},{"startTime":1537.04,"endTime":1539.4,"body":"to extend your empathy to another person,"},{"startTime":1539.4,"endTime":1542.4,"body":"to really feel"},{"startTime":1543.2,"endTime":1545.24,"body":"the presence of this other person"},{"startTime":1545.24,"endTime":1546.12,"body":"and what they're"},{"startTime":1546.12,"endTime":1548.32,"body":"they're attempting to say to you is,"},{"startTime":1548.32,"endTime":1550.0,"body":"firstly, it's a mark of respect,"},{"startTime":1551.12,"endTime":1552.92,"body":"but it also gives you a true"},{"startTime":1552.92,"endTime":1554.2,"body":"knowing of another person"},{"startTime":1554.2,"endTime":1556.08,"body":"beyond the words, deeper than,"},{"startTime":1556.08,"endTime":1557.84,"body":"than what's being communicated."},{"startTime":1557.84,"endTime":1559.92,"body":"It gives you a sense of something,"},{"startTime":1559.92,"endTime":1562.92,"body":"something far more,"},{"startTime":1562.92,"endTime":1564.8,"body":"primal is not quite the right word,"},{"startTime":1564.8,"endTime":1567.08,"body":"but so more of the essence"},{"startTime":1567.08,"endTime":1569.68,"body":"and that connection"},{"startTime":1569.68,"endTime":1571.72,"body":"that you have, that empathic connection"},{"startTime":1571.72,"endTime":1572.2,"body":"that you,"},{"startTime":1572.2,"endTime":1573.08,"body":"you find with"},{"startTime":1573.08,"endTime":1574.24,"body":"another living creature,"},{"startTime":1574.24,"endTime":1575.08,"body":"another person"},{"startTime":1575.08,"endTime":1576.48,"body":"or another animal"},{"startTime":1576.48,"endTime":1579.48,"body":"is the beginning of care and compassion."},{"startTime":1580.6,"endTime":1582.88,"body":"So if we are to find connection"},{"startTime":1582.88,"endTime":1583.6,"body":"and care"},{"startTime":1583.6,"endTime":1584.92,"body":"for the living world around"},{"startTime":1584.92,"endTime":1586.52,"body":"us, then empathic"},{"startTime":1586.52,"endTime":1588.24,"body":"listening to other creatures"},{"startTime":1588.24,"endTime":1589.64,"body":"is one of the most beautiful"},{"startTime":1589.64,"endTime":1591.44,"body":"and powerful ways that I know of."},{"startTime":1591.44,"endTime":1593.2,"body":"Of doing that."},{"startTime":1593.2,"endTime":1595.56,"body":"And so whilst it's"},{"startTime":1595.56,"endTime":1596.2,"body":"I mean, it's"},{"startTime":1596.2,"endTime":1598.88,"body":"lovely fun to learn about species"},{"startTime":1598.88,"endTime":1599.88,"body":"and vocalization,"},{"startTime":1599.88,"endTime":1600.76,"body":"all these things, there's"},{"startTime":1600.76,"endTime":1601.64,"body":"so much"},{"startTime":1601.64,"endTime":1602.48,"body":"to learn"},{"startTime":1602.48,"endTime":1605.08,"body":"about the sound of the natural world."},{"startTime":1605.08,"endTime":1606.4,"body":"But this crow"},{"startTime":1606.4,"endTime":1609.2,"body":"also taught me to listen with the heart."},{"startTime":1609.2,"endTime":1612.48,"body":"And so we need to bring our whole selves"},{"startTime":1612.48,"endTime":1613.64,"body":"to listening,"},{"startTime":1613.64,"endTime":1615.88,"body":"not just our intellectual capacity"},{"startTime":1615.88,"endTime":1618.12,"body":"to understand what we're hearing."},{"startTime":1619.16,"endTime":1621.2,"body":"Which is limited anyway."},{"startTime":1621.2,"endTime":1622.68,"body":"yeah, to bring our whole selves"},{"startTime":1622.68,"endTime":1624.68,"body":"to to that listening experience."},{"startTime":1624.68,"endTime":1627.68,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1661.36,"endTime":1664.36,"body":"See where."},{"startTime":1696.0,"endTime":1696.52,"body":"someone,"},{"startTime":1696.52,"endTime":1697.8,"body":"I think it really,"},{"startTime":1697.8,"endTime":1699.88,"body":"really can change things."},{"startTime":1699.88,"endTime":1701.04,"body":"Yes, indeed."},{"startTime":1701.04,"endTime":1702.92,"body":"And, Actually, it's more."},{"startTime":1702.92,"endTime":1705.92,"body":"It's even more powerful than that because"},{"startTime":1706.52,"endTime":1709.52,"body":"the way that we've set up our society,"},{"startTime":1710.36,"endTime":1712.24,"body":"a lot of our history, human"},{"startTime":1712.24,"endTime":1715.24,"body":"history, is based on in power."},{"startTime":1715.72,"endTime":1718.6,"body":"And, I've, I've heard people"},{"startTime":1718.6,"endTime":1721.0,"body":"describing the current situation,"},{"startTime":1721.0,"endTime":1721.56,"body":"and indeed,"},{"startTime":1721.56,"endTime":1721.96,"body":"I think"},{"startTime":1721.96,"endTime":1723.8,"body":"it applies to the historic"},{"startTime":1723.8,"endTime":1725.72,"body":"situation, is that"},{"startTime":1725.72,"endTime":1728.72,"body":"humans are torn between power and life,"},{"startTime":1729.44,"endTime":1731.6,"body":"that we are alive"},{"startTime":1731.6,"endTime":1734.6,"body":"and we find connection and love,"},{"startTime":1734.68,"endTime":1736.28,"body":"and beauty in the world."},{"startTime":1736.28,"endTime":1738.32,"body":"But we're also driven by power,"},{"startTime":1738.32,"endTime":1739.96,"body":"which is our capacity,"},{"startTime":1739.96,"endTime":1741.24,"body":"our intellectual capacity"},{"startTime":1741.24,"endTime":1742.36,"body":"to understand the world"},{"startTime":1742.36,"endTime":1743.48,"body":"and manipulate it and"},{"startTime":1743.48,"endTime":1744.72,"body":"control it to our will."},{"startTime":1745.76,"endTime":1746.88,"body":"And at this particular"},{"startTime":1746.88,"endTime":1748.28,"body":"moment in our history,"},{"startTime":1748.28,"endTime":1750.36,"body":"I think we are seeing"},{"startTime":1750.36,"endTime":1751.28,"body":"that process"},{"startTime":1751.28,"endTime":1753.6,"body":"almost coming to an end game."},{"startTime":1753.6,"endTime":1756.64,"body":"With capitalism hyper capitalism,"},{"startTime":1756.64,"endTime":1757.88,"body":"toxic capitalism,"},{"startTime":1757.88,"endTime":1762.48,"body":"if you like, becoming ever more obsessed"},{"startTime":1762.48,"endTime":1764.24,"body":"with wealth and power"},{"startTime":1764.24,"endTime":1766.4,"body":"and profit and exploiting the planet"},{"startTime":1766.4,"endTime":1769.4,"body":"and indeed exploiting each other."},{"startTime":1770.36,"endTime":1772.4,"body":"So the thing about empathy"},{"startTime":1772.4,"endTime":1777.48,"body":"and listening, empathy, is that it,"},{"startTime":1777.48,"endTime":1780.48,"body":"you can't have power over others"},{"startTime":1781.0,"endTime":1782.88,"body":"if you're extending empathy."},{"startTime":1782.88,"endTime":1785.84,"body":"It is the antidote"},{"startTime":1785.84,"endTime":1788.84,"body":"to, to that kind of power that divides"},{"startTime":1788.84,"endTime":1791.84,"body":"people and, it creates harm"},{"startTime":1791.84,"endTime":1793.6,"body":"by, by criticizing"},{"startTime":1793.6,"endTime":1795.68,"body":"minorities and, and outcasts"},{"startTime":1795.68,"endTime":1798.68,"body":"and, and creating the, the others."},{"startTime":1799.76,"endTime":1801.92,"body":"So empathy is, is a"},{"startTime":1801.92,"endTime":1803.36,"body":"really important socially"},{"startTime":1803.36,"endTime":1804.2,"body":"and politically"},{"startTime":1804.2,"endTime":1806.4,"body":"as well as personally"},{"startTime":1806.4,"endTime":1808.44,"body":"and in one's personal connection"},{"startTime":1808.44,"endTime":1811.44,"body":"with the life and with, with the world."},{"startTime":1811.52,"endTime":1812.96,"body":"It's an important quality"},{"startTime":1812.96,"endTime":1814.08,"body":"that we need to bring in"},{"startTime":1814.08,"endTime":1815.92,"body":"to our, our social functioning,"},{"startTime":1815.92,"endTime":1818.92,"body":"political, economic and, and so on."},{"startTime":1819.24,"endTime":1822.6,"body":"So listening is, is often thought of,"},{"startTime":1822.64,"endTime":1824.0,"body":"you know, it's"},{"startTime":1824.0,"endTime":1825.08,"body":"indigenous people"},{"startTime":1825.08,"endTime":1827.48,"body":"talk about listening to country"},{"startTime":1827.48,"endTime":1829.16,"body":"and there's a reason that they use"},{"startTime":1829.16,"endTime":1831.68,"body":"listening is the sense that connects,"},{"startTime":1831.68,"endTime":1832.76,"body":"as I've said earlier."},{"startTime":1833.72,"endTime":1835.52,"body":"But I also think listening is"},{"startTime":1835.52,"endTime":1838.16,"body":"the, is the sense that connects us"},{"startTime":1838.16,"endTime":1839.4,"body":"socially to that."},{"startTime":1839.4,"endTime":1841.36,"body":"We need to listen to each other."},{"startTime":1841.36,"endTime":1843.08,"body":"And when you start doing that"},{"startTime":1843.08,"endTime":1845.4,"body":"with openness and respect,"},{"startTime":1845.4,"endTime":1849.52,"body":"then it becomes very difficult to enact"},{"startTime":1849.52,"endTime":1851.8,"body":"these kind of Machiavellian strategies"},{"startTime":1851.8,"endTime":1853.76,"body":"of, of hijacking the limbic"},{"startTime":1853.76,"endTime":1855.68,"body":"limbic system and,"},{"startTime":1855.68,"endTime":1858.32,"body":"and creating fear and division."},{"startTime":1858.32,"endTime":1860.72,"body":"So we need, what I think of"},{"startTime":1860.72,"endTime":1863.72,"body":"as a listening and listening culture."},{"startTime":1864.04,"endTime":1866.28,"body":"And a lot of indigenous cultures"},{"startTime":1866.28,"endTime":1867.92,"body":"seem to be this way,"},{"startTime":1867.92,"endTime":1870.44,"body":"but Western cultures,"},{"startTime":1870.44,"endTime":1872.12,"body":"we are not very good listeners."},{"startTime":1872.12,"endTime":1873.72,"body":"We haven't been taught to do it."},{"startTime":1873.72,"endTime":1876.04,"body":"We're not encouraged to do it."},{"startTime":1876.04,"endTime":1877.04,"body":"I found"},{"startTime":1877.04,"endTime":1879.2,"body":"I couldn't do it when I first started."},{"startTime":1879.2,"endTime":1880.52,"body":"You know, it's been a long journey"},{"startTime":1880.52,"endTime":1882.52,"body":"for me in learning how to listen."},{"startTime":1882.52,"endTime":1886.32,"body":"And, but it's I think it's the,"},{"startTime":1887.68,"endTime":1888.08,"body":"it's the"},{"startTime":1888.08,"endTime":1891.08,"body":"sacred ingredient in the recipe."},{"startTime":1891.08,"endTime":1894.36,"body":"A sprinkle of listening in the world"},{"startTime":1894.36,"endTime":1897.72,"body":"would, would really do wonders."},{"startTime":1898.44,"endTime":1900.52,"body":"More than more than just a sprinkling,"},{"startTime":1900.52,"endTime":1903.52,"body":"a healthy dose."},{"startTime":1905.68,"endTime":1907.36,"body":"Yeah,"},{"startTime":1907.36,"endTime":1910.36,"body":"a a restorative dose."},{"startTime":1919.64,"endTime":1920.96,"body":"also say this in your book"},{"startTime":1920.96,"endTime":1923.96,"body":"and this actually hit me in the truth"},{"startTime":1923.96,"endTime":1924.92,"body":"in my bones,"},{"startTime":1924.92,"endTime":1926.4,"body":"and I just"},{"startTime":1926.4,"endTime":1927.36,"body":"want to read it out"},{"startTime":1927.36,"endTime":1930.4,"body":"and actually just hear your take on"},{"startTime":1930.72,"endTime":1931.64,"body":"what this means"},{"startTime":1931.64,"endTime":1932.12,"body":"and maybe"},{"startTime":1932.12,"endTime":1933.96,"body":"give some insight to the listeners."},{"startTime":1933.96,"endTime":1935.36,"body":"But in your book, you say"},{"startTime":1935.36,"endTime":1938.24,"body":"nature's functioning is the result"},{"startTime":1938.24,"endTime":1941.4,"body":"of evolution shaping life"},{"startTime":1941.8,"endTime":1944.8,"body":"at every level"},{"startTime":1946.6,"endTime":1948.28,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1948.28,"endTime":1951.84,"body":"advantageous is discarded by evolution."},{"startTime":1952.6,"endTime":1955.6,"body":"and it's it really connected with me"},{"startTime":1955.88,"endTime":1958.88,"body":"especially I actually and I'll tell you"},{"startTime":1964.08,"endTime":1965.84,"body":"recently, who spoke to me"},{"startTime":1965.84,"endTime":1968.44,"body":"about the Andean,"},{"startTime":1968.44,"endTime":1971.16,"body":"cosmology here in Peru."},{"startTime":1971.16,"endTime":1973.76,"body":"And she was saying, you know,"},{"startTime":1973.76,"endTime":1976.28,"body":"their belief system is that we go"},{"startTime":1976.28,"endTime":1978.24,"body":"into 500 years of darkness"},{"startTime":1978.24,"endTime":1980.84,"body":"and then 500 years of lightness."},{"startTime":1980.84,"endTime":1982.84,"body":"And I've heard a lot of people"},{"startTime":1982.84,"endTime":1984.32,"body":"speak to this as well,"},{"startTime":1984.32,"endTime":1985.2,"body":"and that you know,"},{"startTime":1985.2,"endTime":1986.24,"body":"is stripping away"},{"startTime":1986.24,"endTime":1988.48,"body":"any behavior or anything"},{"startTime":1988.48,"endTime":1990.16,"body":"that is not serving"},{"startTime":1990.16,"endTime":1993.16,"body":"the evolution of humanity."},{"startTime":1993.48,"endTime":1995.28,"body":"And so when I read that in your book,"},{"startTime":1995.28,"endTime":1996.68,"body":"I was like, oh, that's interesting."},{"startTime":1996.68,"endTime":1997.64,"body":"There's these"},{"startTime":1997.64,"endTime":2000.04,"body":"there's been multiple people who have had"},{"startTime":2000.04,"endTime":2002.2,"body":"this sort of theme, but,"},{"startTime":2009.2,"endTime":2010.36,"body":"I think an important"},{"startTime":2010.36,"endTime":2011.08,"body":"aspect of"},{"startTime":2011.08,"endTime":2012.56,"body":"what you're talking about highly"},{"startTime":2012.56,"endTime":2014.16,"body":"is that, we,"},{"startTime":2014.16,"endTime":2017.56,"body":"we tend to use the word evolution,"},{"startTime":2018.16,"endTime":2020.12,"body":"almost in parallel"},{"startTime":2020.12,"endTime":2022.96,"body":"with things getting better."},{"startTime":2022.96,"endTime":2024.8,"body":"And that's not actually the way"},{"startTime":2024.8,"endTime":2026.48,"body":"evolution works."},{"startTime":2026.48,"endTime":2028.2,"body":"Evolution doesn't make things"},{"startTime":2028.2,"endTime":2029.32,"body":"necessarily better."},{"startTime":2029.32,"endTime":2032.32,"body":"All it does is it's in the moment."},{"startTime":2032.32,"endTime":2034.28,"body":"Does this work."},{"startTime":2034.28,"endTime":2037.4,"body":"Because if it doesn't, you know,"},{"startTime":2037.76,"endTime":2040.56,"body":"evolution will discard that adaptation."},{"startTime":2040.56,"endTime":2042.12,"body":"But it's it's important."},{"startTime":2042.12,"endTime":2043.16,"body":"You know,"},{"startTime":2043.16,"endTime":2043.68,"body":"I think"},{"startTime":2043.68,"endTime":2045.64,"body":"when we think of evolution as well,"},{"startTime":2045.64,"endTime":2046.72,"body":"we tend to think of"},{"startTime":2046.72,"endTime":2049.44,"body":"animal morphology of their bodies"},{"startTime":2049.44,"endTime":2051.76,"body":"and their foraging habits."},{"startTime":2051.76,"endTime":2052.96,"body":"They build shape"},{"startTime":2052.96,"endTime":2055.0,"body":"or the length of their legs"},{"startTime":2055.0,"endTime":2057.12,"body":"or something like that. It's."},{"startTime":2057.12,"endTime":2060.36,"body":"But evolution also shapes behaviors."},{"startTime":2060.68,"endTime":2061.44,"body":"And we know that"},{"startTime":2061.44,"endTime":2064.44,"body":"in terms of animal behaviors, but"},{"startTime":2064.6,"endTime":2066.64,"body":"it shapes"},{"startTime":2066.64,"endTime":2068.16,"body":"the ways that animals"},{"startTime":2068.16,"endTime":2070.32,"body":"collectively behave."},{"startTime":2070.32,"endTime":2072.6,"body":"they seem to be principles"},{"startTime":2072.6,"endTime":2074.08,"body":"underlying the functioning"},{"startTime":2074.08,"endTime":2076.28,"body":"of living systems."},{"startTime":2076.28,"endTime":2078.88,"body":"And, you know, in a similar way,"},{"startTime":2078.88,"endTime":2080.0,"body":"perhaps, to music"},{"startTime":2080.0,"endTime":2080.72,"body":"are principles"},{"startTime":2080.72,"endTime":2081.56,"body":"underlying music"},{"startTime":2081.56,"endTime":2084.56,"body":"principles of 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relationships,"},{"startTime":2108.2,"endTime":2109.76,"body":"we tend to think of them as either"},{"startTime":2109.76,"endTime":2111.64,"body":"being competitive or cooperative"},{"startTime":2111.64,"endTime":2112.88,"body":"or somewhere in between."},{"startTime":2114.36,"endTime":2115.4,"body":"And the interesting thing"},{"startTime":2115.4,"endTime":2117.28,"body":"when you look at natural systems"},{"startTime":2117.28,"endTime":2118.36,"body":"is that cooperative"},{"startTime":2118.36,"endTime":2120.32,"body":"relationships are ubiquitous."},{"startTime":2120.32,"endTime":2122.24,"body":"They are just found at every level,"},{"startTime":2122.24,"endTime":2125.24,"body":"all over and,"},{"startTime":2126.08,"endTime":2127.08,"body":"and in some cases"},{"startTime":2127.08,"endTime":2128.4,"body":"they're audible as well"},{"startTime":2128.4,"endTime":2129.76,"body":"foraging flocks, mixed"},{"startTime":2129.76,"endTime":2131.12,"body":"species, foraging 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more audio"},{"startTime":2156.28,"endTime":2158.0,"body":"this point of,"},{"startTime":2158.0,"endTime":2159.64,"body":"mixed race, these foraging flock,"},{"startTime":2159.64,"endTime":2160.32,"body":"this is one"},{"startTime":2160.32,"endTime":2162.64,"body":"one in the bushland where I live."},{"startTime":2162.64,"endTime":2163.52,"body":"And you can hear a"},{"startTime":2163.52,"endTime":2165.0,"body":"range of different species."},{"startTime":2165.0,"endTime":2166.68,"body":"They're primarily,"},{"startTime":2166.68,"endTime":2169.64,"body":"silver eyes, buff rumped hornbills."},{"startTime":2169.64,"endTime":2172.0,"body":"I think there's a great fantail,"},{"startTime":2172.0,"endTime":2172.56,"body":"as always, seem"},{"startTime":2172.56,"endTime":2174.36,"body":"to be a part of these these flocks."},{"startTime":2174.36,"endTime":2177.36,"body":"There's a scarlet robin tree creeper"},{"startTime":2177.4,"endTime":2179.16,"body":"and,"},{"startTime":2179.16,"endTime":2180.2,"body":"They're all moving through"},{"startTime":2180.2,"endTime":2181.2,"body":"the forest together."},{"startTime":2208.36,"endTime":2208.92,"body":"So these"},{"startTime":2208.92,"endTime":2210.36,"body":"four foraging flocks"},{"startTime":2210.36,"endTime":2212.0,"body":"move through the forest"},{"startTime":2212.0,"endTime":2214.92,"body":"and, all together."},{"startTime":2214.92,"endTime":2216.24,"body":"And the interesting thing is, yes,"},{"startTime":2216.24,"endTime":2219.24,"body":"they are cooperative behavior, but"},{"startTime":2219.48,"endTime":2221.64,"body":"the thing is, it's a cooperative behavior"},{"startTime":2221.64,"endTime":2223.76,"body":"amongst a range of different species."},{"startTime":2223.76,"endTime":2225.12,"body":"They all forage differently."},{"startTime":2225.12,"endTime":2226.36,"body":"Some are up in the canopy,"},{"startTime":2226.36,"endTime":2227.96,"body":"some in the mid story."},{"startTime":2227.96,"endTime":2230.12,"body":"The fantail fly out and grab insects"},{"startTime":2230.12,"endTime":2231.16,"body":"from the wing."},{"startTime":2231.16,"endTime":2233.48,"body":"The robins,"},{"startTime":2233.48,"endTime":2234.72,"body":"perched low down"},{"startTime":2234.72,"endTime":2235.72,"body":"and looking for stuff"},{"startTime":2235.72,"endTime":2237.24,"body":"on the forest floor."},{"startTime":2237.24,"endTime":2238.4,"body":"The buff ramps,"},{"startTime":2238.4,"endTime":2239.72,"body":"thorn builds up down"},{"startTime":2239.72,"endTime":2240.72,"body":"in the low shrubbery."},{"startTime":2240.72,"endTime":2241.8,"body":"They're all foraging in"},{"startTime":2241.8,"endTime":2243.32,"body":"entirely different ways."},{"startTime":2243.32,"endTime":2244.72,"body":"The tree creepers are"},{"startTime":2244.72,"endTime":2245.96,"body":"extracting 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What?"},{"startTime":2383.64,"endTime":2385.92,"body":"So what you're saying is. Absolutely."},{"startTime":2385.92,"endTime":2388.36,"body":"You know, I agree the Hello there."},{"startTime":2388.36,"endTime":2389.56,"body":"Just a quick interlude"},{"startTime":2389.56,"endTime":2390.96,"body":"that I know you'll be patient with,"},{"startTime":2390.96,"endTime":2392.32,"body":"because it's these few moments"},{"startTime":2392.32,"endTime":2393.08,"body":"that make it possible"},{"startTime":2393.08,"endTime":2394.96,"body":"to continue creating and sharing"},{"startTime":2394.96,"endTime":2397.0,"body":"future stream conversations."},{"startTime":2397.0,"endTime":2398.52,"body":"I also know that you trust"},{"startTime":2398.52,"endTime":2398.92,"body":"that I wouldn't"},{"startTime":2398.92,"endTime":2400.48,"body":"interrupt you for just anyone,"},{"startTime":2400.48,"endTime":2402.8,"body":"especially not a values aligned business,"},{"startTime":2402.8,"endTime":2405.8,"body":"because no partnership is worth that."},{"startTime":2406.04,"endTime":2407.36,"body":"As I'm recording this, I'm"},{"startTime":2407.36,"endTime":2410.08,"body":"sipping on perfectly pink hibiscus tea"},{"startTime":2410.08,"endTime":2412.24,"body":"that was sent from the gorgeous Elle"},{"startTime":2412.24,"endTime":2414.84,"body":"from Australian Medicinal Herbs."},{"startTime":2414.84,"endTime":2416.64,"body":"All of their products are paddock"},{"startTime":2416.64,"endTime":2418.96,"body":"to packet. 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become"},{"startTime":2558.44,"endTime":2560.84,"body":"a part of that power over life."},{"startTime":2560.84,"endTime":2563.04,"body":"Life appreciates diversity."},{"startTime":2563.04,"endTime":2565.0,"body":"Power is I'm going to step on you"},{"startTime":2565.0,"endTime":2566.4,"body":"to get to where I want to get to."},{"startTime":2567.4,"endTime":2569.48,"body":"And,"},{"startTime":2569.48,"endTime":2571.8,"body":"I think about it as well you know in,"},{"startTime":2571.8,"endTime":2572.88,"body":"especially in Australia"},{"startTime":2572.88,"endTime":2575.08,"body":"we use rewards and punishments"},{"startTime":2575.08,"endTime":2578.4,"body":"as a way of behavior management."},{"startTime":2578.4,"endTime":2581.08,"body":"And that actually stemmed from"},{"startTime":2581.08,"endTime":2582.24,"body":"back in the day,"},{"startTime":2582.24,"endTime":2582.92,"body":"long, long time"},{"startTime":2582.92,"endTime":2585.12,"body":"ago, people trying to control animals"},{"startTime":2585.12,"endTime":2585.84,"body":"and using that"},{"startTime":2585.84,"endTime":2586.96,"body":"as rewards and punishments."},{"startTime":2586.96,"endTime":2589.28,"body":"And then we use that for, for us"},{"startTime":2589.28,"endTime":2590.48,"body":"children in schools."},{"startTime":2590.48,"endTime":2592.24,"body":"And so they then develop"},{"startTime":2592.24,"endTime":2593.84,"body":"this like competition,"},{"startTime":2593.84,"endTime":2595.56,"body":"competition against each other"},{"startTime":2595.56,"endTime":2596.48,"body":"rather than this"},{"startTime":2596.48,"endTime":2598.52,"body":"growth mindset of like,"},{"startTime":2598.52,"endTime":2601.12,"body":"oh, what can I do?"},{"startTime":2601.12,"endTime":2602.08,"body":"What can I offer the world?"},{"startTime":2602.08,"endTime":2603.16,"body":"And how can I learn"},{"startTime":2603.16,"endTime":2606.16,"body":"and learning becomes of value rather"},{"startTime":2608.84,"endTime":2609.64,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":2609.64,"endTime":2610.52,"body":"And look,"},{"startTime":2610.52,"endTime":2612.2,"body":"I mean, competitive"},{"startTime":2612.2,"endTime":2614.56,"body":"is the other side to the cooperative."},{"startTime":2614.56,"endTime":2616.12,"body":"And it's part of what's interesting"},{"startTime":2616.12,"endTime":2620.0,"body":"is that we value competition as if it's"},{"startTime":2620.0,"endTime":2621.28,"body":"kind of equal but opposite."},{"startTime":2622.24,"endTime":2622.84,"body":"And there are good"},{"startTime":2622.84,"endTime":2624.04,"body":"things from competition."},{"startTime":2624.04,"endTime":2627.88,"body":"You know, it encourages excellence."},{"startTime":2627.88,"endTime":2629.76,"body":"It punishes laxness."},{"startTime":2629.76,"endTime":2632.2,"body":"It brings out the optimal outcomes"},{"startTime":2632.2,"endTime":2633.48,"body":"in every situation."},{"startTime":2633.48,"endTime":2634.72,"body":"And it's essential."},{"startTime":2634.72,"endTime":2636.4,"body":"And it's it's part of nature."},{"startTime":2636.4,"endTime":2638.32,"body":"It's natural."},{"startTime":2638.32,"endTime":2638.52,"body":"Well,"},{"startTime":2638.52,"endTime":2639.88,"body":"the interesting thing is that"},{"startTime":2639.88,"endTime":2641.44,"body":"when you actually inquire"},{"startTime":2641.44,"endTime":2642.28,"body":"into nature,"},{"startTime":2642.28,"endTime":2643.8,"body":"and particularly through listening,"},{"startTime":2643.8,"endTime":2644.8,"body":"you realize that,"},{"startTime":2644.8,"endTime":2647.8,"body":"no, it's not equal and opposite at all."},{"startTime":2647.92,"endTime":2650.76,"body":"Cooperate, competition"},{"startTime":2650.76,"endTime":2654.12,"body":"exists, has the potential to exist"},{"startTime":2654.12,"endTime":2655.88,"body":"in nature, but"},{"startTime":2655.88,"endTime":2659.2,"body":"creatures avoid the costs of competition."},{"startTime":2660.56,"endTime":2663.36,"body":"And that's the thing that they will,"},{"startTime":2663.36,"endTime":2665.48,"body":"they will interact with each other"},{"startTime":2665.48,"endTime":2667.68,"body":"in contentious ways."},{"startTime":2667.68,"endTime":2668.32,"body":"And by the way,"},{"startTime":2668.32,"endTime":2669.68,"body":"I'm not talking about predation."},{"startTime":2669.68,"endTime":2672.28,"body":"That that is a very different process."},{"startTime":2672.28,"endTime":2673.72,"body":"But in terms of,"},{"startTime":2673.72,"endTime":2677.68,"body":"within a particular species, individuals"},{"startTime":2677.68,"endTime":2678.44,"body":"will interact"},{"startTime":2678.44,"endTime":2679.72,"body":"with each other,"},{"startTime":2679.72,"endTime":2682.72,"body":"over status and access to resources,"},{"startTime":2682.92,"endTime":2683.76,"body":"and they do so"},{"startTime":2683.76,"endTime":2687.36,"body":"in very ritualized, formalized behaviors."},{"startTime":2687.88,"endTime":2689.32,"body":"As a fellow"},{"startTime":2689.32,"endTime":2690.4,"body":"Australian, highly"},{"startTime":2690.4,"endTime":2692.72,"body":"recognized things like,"},{"startTime":2692.72,"endTime":2696.32,"body":"kangaroos, boxing, rabbits and hares"},{"startTime":2696.32,"endTime":2697.92,"body":"do a similar kind of,"},{"startTime":2697.92,"endTime":2698.2,"body":"you know,"},{"startTime":2698.2,"endTime":2700.24,"body":"put up your dukes kind of thing."},{"startTime":2700.24,"endTime":2700.8,"body":"And the point"},{"startTime":2700.8,"endTime":2702.24,"body":"about these behaviors"},{"startTime":2702.24,"endTime":2705.64,"body":"is that they resolve the contention"},{"startTime":2705.64,"endTime":2706.56,"body":"over status"},{"startTime":2706.56,"endTime":2708.0,"body":"or resources in a way"},{"startTime":2708.0,"endTime":2709.72,"body":"that doesn't do harm."},{"startTime":2709.72,"endTime":2712.04,"body":"They don't actually hurt each other."},{"startTime":2712.04,"endTime":2714.48,"body":"And you find these behaviors throughout"},{"startTime":2714.48,"endTime":2715.48,"body":"the animal world,"},{"startTime":2715.48,"endTime":2718.72,"body":"in insects, in other mammals,"},{"startTime":2718.72,"endTime":2720.48,"body":"in fish, in reptiles,"},{"startTime":2720.48,"endTime":2721.92,"body":"and very often their,"},{"startTime":2721.92,"endTime":2726.0,"body":"physical, physical ways of interacting."},{"startTime":2727.48,"endTime":2728.8,"body":"But in birds"},{"startTime":2728.8,"endTime":2730.24,"body":"they sing,"},{"startTime":2730.24,"endTime":2731.16,"body":"and in particular"},{"startTime":2731.16,"endTime":2732.68,"body":"they sing in the dawn chorus."},{"startTime":2732.68,"endTime":2734.64,"body":"That's their time of negotiating"},{"startTime":2734.64,"endTime":2736.12,"body":"relationships, of saying, well,"},{"startTime":2736.12,"endTime":2737.44,"body":"this is where I live"},{"startTime":2737.44,"endTime":2739.16,"body":"and you're my neighbor."},{"startTime":2739.16,"endTime":2742.16,"body":"And we respect,"},{"startTime":2742.36,"endTime":2744.4,"body":"our individual home ranges"},{"startTime":2744.4,"endTime":2746.04,"body":"and space in the landscape."},{"startTime":2746.04,"endTime":2747.64,"body":"And we also form communities"},{"startTime":2747.64,"endTime":2749.96,"body":"by singing the same song together,"},{"startTime":2749.96,"endTime":2751.68,"body":"even playing sound games"},{"startTime":2751.68,"endTime":2753.44,"body":"backwards and forwards with each other."},{"startTime":2753.44,"endTime":2754.8,"body":"And these behaviors"},{"startTime":2754.8,"endTime":2756.56,"body":"you only hear in the dawn chorus."},{"startTime":2756.56,"endTime":2760.2,"body":"And it's a way it's a comparative to,"},{"startTime":2760.2,"endTime":2762.08,"body":"the kind of ritualized behaviors"},{"startTime":2762.08,"endTime":2763.56,"body":"of other animals to,"},{"startTime":2763.56,"endTime":2766.6,"body":"just add some resolve and sort out"},{"startTime":2766.6,"endTime":2768.24,"body":"and affirm their relationships"},{"startTime":2768.24,"endTime":2769.88,"body":"with each other."},{"startTime":2769.88,"endTime":2772.88,"body":"So competition is costly"},{"startTime":2773.04,"endTime":2776.2,"body":"and, it's not advantageous."},{"startTime":2776.36,"endTime":2778.24,"body":"And throughout the animal world,"},{"startTime":2778.24,"endTime":2781.24,"body":"we find that creatures avoid direct,"},{"startTime":2781.56,"endTime":2784.4,"body":"costly, harmful competition."},{"startTime":2785.4,"endTime":2787.6,"body":"And, we don't have those."},{"startTime":2787.6,"endTime":2788.28,"body":"Well, we actually,"},{"startTime":2788.28,"endTime":2790.92,"body":"we do have the same mechanisms."},{"startTime":2790.92,"endTime":2792.84,"body":"It's just that we tend to ignore them."},{"startTime":2792.84,"endTime":2795.28,"body":"And the mechanisms that we have"},{"startTime":2795.28,"endTime":2796.88,"body":"that are similar to"},{"startTime":2796.88,"endTime":2798.8,"body":"is based in the same principle"},{"startTime":2798.8,"endTime":2800.36,"body":"that animals have a basically,"},{"startTime":2800.36,"endTime":2802.16,"body":"largely communicative ones."},{"startTime":2802.16,"endTime":2803.32,"body":"We,"},{"startTime":2803.32,"endTime":2807.0,"body":"and to talk and to listen and diplomacy,"},{"startTime":2807.0,"endTime":2811.12,"body":"negotiation, truth telling,"},{"startTime":2811.12,"endTime":2813.64,"body":"openness, honesty, transparency,"},{"startTime":2813.64,"endTime":2815.28,"body":"all of these qualities."},{"startTime":2815.28,"endTime":2815.6,"body":"And they're,"},{"startTime":2815.6,"endTime":2817.64,"body":"they're basically about sitting down"},{"startTime":2817.64,"endTime":2819.04,"body":"and listening to each other,"},{"startTime":2819.04,"endTime":2820.52,"body":"extending empathy to,"},{"startTime":2820.52,"endTime":2822.52,"body":"to build that foundation"},{"startTime":2822.52,"endTime":2825.08,"body":"for actually hearing the words."},{"startTime":2825.08,"endTime":2827.44,"body":"So once again, we're back to listening."},{"startTime":2827.44,"endTime":2830.44,"body":"And we."},{"startTime":2831.76,"endTime":2832.16,"body":"constantly."},{"startTime":2832.16,"endTime":2834.52,"body":"and you spoke about birdsong"},{"startTime":2834.52,"endTime":2836.92,"body":"and I can imagine"},{"startTime":2836.92,"endTime":2837.52,"body":"you've been to"},{"startTime":2837.52,"endTime":2839.24,"body":"so many parts of the world."},{"startTime":2839.24,"endTime":2841.6,"body":"And I know a lot of people who come to"},{"startTime":2841.6,"endTime":2843.12,"body":"Australia, they actually go"},{"startTime":2845.04,"endTime":2848.04,"body":"Come."},{"startTime":2849.4,"endTime":2850.84,"body":"available in Australia."},{"startTime":2850.84,"endTime":2853.96,"body":"Like the birds, they're, insane."},{"startTime":2853.96,"endTime":2856.36,"body":"You know, being here in Peru right now,"},{"startTime":2856.36,"endTime":2857.8,"body":"there's a few bird songs"},{"startTime":2857.8,"endTime":2858.4,"body":"here and there,"},{"startTime":2858.4,"endTime":2859.36,"body":"but it's just"},{"startTime":2859.36,"endTime":2862.24,"body":"that the loudness is not there."},{"startTime":2862.24,"endTime":2863.64,"body":"There's not the diversity"},{"startTime":2863.64,"endTime":2865.16,"body":"of so many different birds"},{"startTime":2865.16,"endTime":2866.56,"body":"all singing at once."},{"startTime":2866.56,"endTime":2867.92,"body":"And"},{"startTime":2867.92,"endTime":2870.92,"body":"when I think about singing as well,"},{"startTime":2871.28,"endTime":2873.28,"body":"in indigenous cultures,"},{"startTime":2873.28,"endTime":2876.28,"body":"we would sit together in song and sounds,"},{"startTime":2876.28,"endTime":2876.84,"body":"and it is"},{"startTime":2876.84,"endTime":2879.2,"body":"so normalized to be sharing your voice"},{"startTime":2879.2,"endTime":2882.2,"body":"and opening your throat up in"},{"startTime":2885.0,"endTime":2887.0,"body":"sort of voice and sound together"},{"startTime":2887.0,"endTime":2891.4,"body":"and often in, western lands."},{"startTime":2891.4,"endTime":2894.56,"body":"And it can kind of be with"},{"startTime":2895.36,"endTime":2896.2,"body":"especially for me,"},{"startTime":2896.2,"endTime":2898.48,"body":"I can speak for myself is is"},{"startTime":2898.48,"endTime":2900.32,"body":"my voice has been really shut down."},{"startTime":2900.32,"endTime":2902.16,"body":"You know, I've wanted to be a singer."},{"startTime":2902.16,"endTime":2904.24,"body":"I've seen people on television"},{"startTime":2904.24,"endTime":2905.2,"body":"being pop stars."},{"startTime":2905.2,"endTime":2905.72,"body":"And you have to have"},{"startTime":2905.72,"endTime":2908.12,"body":"a certain type of voice for that."},{"startTime":2908.12,"endTime":2910.68,"body":"And it's it has always felt like,"},{"startTime":2910.68,"endTime":2910.96,"body":"yeah,"},{"startTime":2910.96,"endTime":2913.84,"body":"it's become this competitive thing again"},{"startTime":2913.84,"endTime":2914.76,"body":"instead of this"},{"startTime":2914.76,"endTime":2918.56,"body":"innate human ability to connect"},{"startTime":2918.56,"endTime":2919.64,"body":"with your voice"},{"startTime":2919.64,"endTime":2920.8,"body":"and to share voice"},{"startTime":2920.8,"endTime":2922.72,"body":"with the people around you."},{"startTime":2922.72,"endTime":2925.12,"body":"And, you know, birds don't think"},{"startTime":2934.08,"endTime":2934.88,"body":"Well, it's."},{"startTime":2934.88,"endTime":2936.2,"body":"This is a really."},{"startTime":2936.2,"endTime":2937.52,"body":"It's what you're saying"},{"startTime":2937.52,"endTime":2939.48,"body":"is a great fascination to me"},{"startTime":2939.48,"endTime":2942.48,"body":"because I've been a musician, and,"},{"startTime":2942.64,"endTime":2944.96,"body":"the thing is, it's it's"},{"startTime":2944.96,"endTime":2946.4,"body":"not only voice"},{"startTime":2946.4,"endTime":2948.92,"body":"and that inhibition of voice,"},{"startTime":2948.92,"endTime":2950.4,"body":"but the essential thing is"},{"startTime":2950.4,"endTime":2952.68,"body":"that we've commodified music."},{"startTime":2952.68,"endTime":2954.0,"body":"We've commodified music"},{"startTime":2954.0,"endTime":2956.24,"body":"so that we can make money out of it."},{"startTime":2956.24,"endTime":2957.92,"body":"And this has been a process,"},{"startTime":2957.92,"endTime":2959.12,"body":"been going on for a long time."},{"startTime":2959.12,"endTime":2962.12,"body":"So this is not a new thing."},{"startTime":2962.84,"endTime":2965.2,"body":"If you look at indigenous music,"},{"startTime":2965.2,"endTime":2966.68,"body":"indigenous people,"},{"startTime":2966.68,"endTime":2969.64,"body":"everybody participates in music."},{"startTime":2969.64,"endTime":2972.4,"body":"And if you don't, what's wrong with you?"},{"startTime":2972.4,"endTime":2974.28,"body":"You know, I mean, come on,"},{"startTime":2974.28,"endTime":2975.68,"body":"everybody everywhere does it."},{"startTime":2975.68,"endTime":2976.92,"body":"It's not about quality."},{"startTime":2976.92,"endTime":2979.4,"body":"It's about that participation."},{"startTime":2979.4,"endTime":2980.76,"body":"And then as you move"},{"startTime":2980.76,"endTime":2982.44,"body":"into the sort of levels"},{"startTime":2982.44,"endTime":2984.08,"body":"of of music making,"},{"startTime":2984.08,"endTime":2984.76,"body":"as you move"},{"startTime":2984.76,"endTime":2987.76,"body":"into more what we might call folk music,"},{"startTime":2988.16,"endTime":2988.64,"body":"you start"},{"startTime":2988.64,"endTime":2990.08,"body":"getting people who are really skilled"},{"startTime":2990.08,"endTime":2993.16,"body":"and you start developing the actual, the,"},{"startTime":2993.16,"endTime":2994.56,"body":"the form of the music,"},{"startTime":2994.56,"endTime":2995.2,"body":"that it becomes"},{"startTime":2995.2,"endTime":2996.36,"body":"slightly more complex"},{"startTime":2996.36,"endTime":2999.36,"body":"and so only good players can do it."},{"startTime":3000.04,"endTime":3000.88,"body":"And from there"},{"startTime":3000.88,"endTime":3001.64,"body":"it can move"},{"startTime":3001.64,"endTime":3004.44,"body":"into what I call a classical phase,"},{"startTime":3004.44,"endTime":3006.6,"body":"where it becomes virtuosic,"},{"startTime":3006.6,"endTime":3007.24,"body":"that you need"},{"startTime":3007.24,"endTime":3008.84,"body":"the most skilled players,"},{"startTime":3008.84,"endTime":3010.64,"body":"the most skilled composers."},{"startTime":3010.64,"endTime":3012.04,"body":"Where can we take this,"},{"startTime":3012.04,"endTime":3014.04,"body":"this, this process."},{"startTime":3014.04,"endTime":3015.6,"body":"And by that stage,"},{"startTime":3015.6,"endTime":3017.92,"body":"the ordinary person is excluded,"},{"startTime":3017.92,"endTime":3019.4,"body":"and then you simply add"},{"startTime":3019.4,"endTime":3020.92,"body":"the commodification to it."},{"startTime":3020.92,"endTime":3022.48,"body":"In in Western cultures"},{"startTime":3022.48,"endTime":3023.88,"body":"that, you know, we,"},{"startTime":3023.88,"endTime":3024.8,"body":"we record it,"},{"startTime":3024.8,"endTime":3025.6,"body":"we put it on"},{"startTime":3025.6,"endTime":3026.84,"body":"records and CD's"},{"startTime":3026.84,"endTime":3029.64,"body":"or Spotify streams or whatever it is."},{"startTime":3029.64,"endTime":3031.72,"body":"And professional musicians make their,"},{"startTime":3031.72,"endTime":3033.36,"body":"their living from entertaining"},{"startTime":3033.36,"endTime":3035.64,"body":"the rest of us who sit there saying no."},{"startTime":3035.64,"endTime":3036.44,"body":"And that's nice."},{"startTime":3037.84,"endTime":3039.92,"body":"So we've gone"},{"startTime":3039.92,"endTime":3042.64,"body":"we've gone from, you know, 100%"},{"startTime":3042.64,"endTime":3045.92,"body":"participé ation to a fraction"},{"startTime":3045.92,"endTime":3048.92,"body":"of of people making music."},{"startTime":3049.0,"endTime":3051.28,"body":"And there's a gulf between"},{"startTime":3051.28,"endTime":3052.76,"body":"the professional musician"},{"startTime":3052.76,"endTime":3054.64,"body":"and what, you might say,"},{"startTime":3054.64,"endTime":3055.92,"body":"the amateur musician"},{"startTime":3055.92,"endTime":3057.32,"body":"that might join a choir"},{"startTime":3057.32,"endTime":3059.56,"body":"or a folk group or something."},{"startTime":3059.56,"endTime":3062.32,"body":"And the rest of us who just listen."},{"startTime":3062.32,"endTime":3064.72,"body":"And I must admit, these days I mean, the"},{"startTime":3064.72,"endTime":3067.72,"body":"in the final category there."},{"startTime":3068.2,"endTime":3070.12,"body":"But the interesting thing about"},{"startTime":3070.12,"endTime":3071.64,"body":"it is coming back to nature"},{"startTime":3071.64,"endTime":3074.2,"body":"and listening is that"},{"startTime":3074.2,"endTime":3075.88,"body":"when you listen to nature,"},{"startTime":3075.88,"endTime":3077.32,"body":"you're in the moment."},{"startTime":3077.32,"endTime":3078.32,"body":"You're hearing everything"},{"startTime":3078.32,"endTime":3080.68,"body":"that's going on around you."},{"startTime":3080.68,"endTime":3082.72,"body":"And we tend to think of nature"},{"startTime":3082.72,"endTime":3085.72,"body":"as being a place."},{"startTime":3086.2,"endTime":3088.28,"body":"Nature is a park or a hillside,"},{"startTime":3088.28,"endTime":3090.84,"body":"or a beach or a river bank or,"},{"startTime":3090.84,"endTime":3091.84,"body":"you know, something like that."},{"startTime":3091.84,"endTime":3093.88,"body":"Even when you think of habitat for"},{"startTime":3093.88,"endTime":3095.72,"body":"animals, it's still a place."},{"startTime":3097.16,"endTime":3098.56,"body":"But nature is not a place."},{"startTime":3098.56,"endTime":3100.36,"body":"Nature is a process"},{"startTime":3100.36,"endTime":3101.68,"body":"which comes back to that thing"},{"startTime":3101.68,"endTime":3103.4,"body":"I was saying earlier about evolution."},{"startTime":3103.4,"endTime":3104.68,"body":"It's constantly dynamic,"},{"startTime":3104.68,"endTime":3106.16,"body":"constantly adapting,"},{"startTime":3106.16,"endTime":3108.56,"body":"constantly finding ways forward."},{"startTime":3108.56,"endTime":3110.64,"body":"It's like a stream that's ever flowing."},{"startTime":3110.64,"endTime":3111.68,"body":"And when you're listening,"},{"startTime":3111.68,"endTime":3112.96,"body":"you're hearing that movement"},{"startTime":3112.96,"endTime":3114.76,"body":"and you have to be in the moment"},{"startTime":3114.76,"endTime":3116.56,"body":"as it's happening."},{"startTime":3116.56,"endTime":3118.72,"body":"So rather than a noun,"},{"startTime":3118.72,"endTime":3119.84,"body":"the word nature,"},{"startTime":3119.84,"endTime":3121.96,"body":"you think of it as a verb"},{"startTime":3121.96,"endTime":3123.52,"body":"and going back to music,"},{"startTime":3123.52,"endTime":3125.84,"body":"music has become a noun."},{"startTime":3125.84,"endTime":3126.96,"body":"Music is a thing."},{"startTime":3126.96,"endTime":3127.88,"body":"It's a song."},{"startTime":3127.88,"endTime":3129.0,"body":"It's a symphony."},{"startTime":3129.0,"endTime":3132.0,"body":"It's, you know, it's"},{"startTime":3132.04,"endTime":3134.32,"body":"it's it's a thing."},{"startTime":3134.32,"endTime":3136.36,"body":"But music isn't a thing."},{"startTime":3136.36,"endTime":3139.44,"body":"Music is is a verb in the same way"},{"startTime":3139.44,"endTime":3142.44,"body":"we do music, we make music."},{"startTime":3142.84,"endTime":3144.52,"body":"One author has come up"},{"startTime":3144.52,"endTime":3146.28,"body":"with the word music"},{"startTime":3146.28,"endTime":3148.92,"body":"to describe what we do"},{"startTime":3148.92,"endTime":3150.28,"body":"when we get together"},{"startTime":3150.28,"endTime":3151.08,"body":"and make music,"},{"startTime":3151.08,"endTime":3152.36,"body":"and it's very likely,"},{"startTime":3152.36,"endTime":3155.44,"body":"I think, that, music, you know,"},{"startTime":3155.44,"endTime":3156.84,"body":"we have two modes of"},{"startTime":3156.84,"endTime":3158.92,"body":"communicating music and language."},{"startTime":3158.92,"endTime":3161.04,"body":"And language is relatively recent."},{"startTime":3161.04,"endTime":3162.8,"body":"We know that because"},{"startTime":3162.8,"endTime":3165.28,"body":"the, communicative capacities,"},{"startTime":3165.28,"endTime":3167.04,"body":"the organizational capacities"},{"startTime":3167.04,"endTime":3168.24,"body":"that language allows,"},{"startTime":3168.24,"endTime":3171.24,"body":"we can only see in the fossil record,"},{"startTime":3171.32,"endTime":3174.68,"body":"from probably the, the late Paleolithic"},{"startTime":3174.68,"endTime":3175.76,"body":"into the Neolithic."},{"startTime":3175.76,"endTime":3177.92,"body":"So before that, our"},{"startTime":3177.92,"endTime":3180.4,"body":"ability to communicate ideas"},{"startTime":3180.4,"endTime":3183.44,"body":"and, and transmit and trade ideas"},{"startTime":3183.44,"endTime":3185.08,"body":"was, was much more limited,"},{"startTime":3185.08,"endTime":3187.32,"body":"which means that our language was."},{"startTime":3187.32,"endTime":3189.44,"body":"But I think music probably goes"},{"startTime":3189.44,"endTime":3190.4,"body":"way, way back."},{"startTime":3190.4,"endTime":3192.44,"body":"It's it's not just ancestral."},{"startTime":3192.44,"endTime":3196.76,"body":"It's it's it goes back to species"},{"startTime":3196.76,"endTime":3197.52,"body":"before us"},{"startTime":3197.52,"endTime":3200.36,"body":"Neanderthals, Homo erectus,"},{"startTime":3200.36,"endTime":3203.24,"body":"it goes way, way back because music"},{"startTime":3203.24,"endTime":3206.24,"body":"is related to the body, to movement."},{"startTime":3206.32,"endTime":3207.76,"body":"And we know what that movement was."},{"startTime":3207.76,"endTime":3209.56,"body":"We know that we stood upright and started"},{"startTime":3209.56,"endTime":3210.96,"body":"walking across the landscape"},{"startTime":3210.96,"endTime":3213.36,"body":"maybe 3 million years ago."},{"startTime":3213.36,"endTime":3215.96,"body":"And if that's the case, then music"},{"startTime":3215.96,"endTime":3217.8,"body":"possibly goes back. That far."},{"startTime":3217.8,"endTime":3219.24,"body":"It would certainly explain."},{"startTime":3219.24,"endTime":3223.32,"body":"It's that deep, mysterious mental hole"},{"startTime":3223.32,"endTime":3225.24,"body":"that it has on us"},{"startTime":3225.24,"endTime":3226.08,"body":"that it's actually"},{"startTime":3226.08,"endTime":3227.44,"body":"a biological phenomenon,"},{"startTime":3227.44,"endTime":3229.4,"body":"not a cultural one."},{"startTime":3229.4,"endTime":3230.64,"body":"And,"},{"startTime":3230.64,"endTime":3233.64,"body":"the thing about music and music being"},{"startTime":3233.84,"endTime":3236.32,"body":"is that it brings us together as animals."},{"startTime":3236.32,"endTime":3239.32,"body":"It, by synchronizing to a pulse,"},{"startTime":3239.68,"endTime":3241.04,"body":"we can communicate,"},{"startTime":3241.04,"endTime":3241.96,"body":"we can share,"},{"startTime":3241.96,"endTime":3243.96,"body":"we can invent all in the abstract."},{"startTime":3243.96,"endTime":3245.6,"body":"This isn't linguistic."},{"startTime":3245.6,"endTime":3247.08,"body":"We can make sounds."},{"startTime":3247.08,"endTime":3249.28,"body":"We can express ourselves emotional."},{"startTime":3249.28,"endTime":3252.08,"body":"Lee a personality, character."},{"startTime":3252.08,"endTime":3254.24,"body":"We step forward, step back."},{"startTime":3254.24,"endTime":3255.88,"body":"We can create new things."},{"startTime":3255.88,"endTime":3256.96,"body":"We can respond to"},{"startTime":3256.96,"endTime":3258.12,"body":"what other people are doing."},{"startTime":3258.12,"endTime":3260.56,"body":"This is the musical process."},{"startTime":3260.56,"endTime":3263.12,"body":"And in the process of doing that,"},{"startTime":3263.12,"endTime":3266.92,"body":"we move from being, primates"},{"startTime":3267.12,"endTime":3270.12,"body":"who can't do rhythm to music"},{"startTime":3270.16,"endTime":3272.28,"body":"into being a social animal."},{"startTime":3272.28,"endTime":3273.96,"body":"And from that social animal,"},{"startTime":3273.96,"endTime":3276.96,"body":"we then can become, an intelligent"},{"startTime":3277.48,"endTime":3280.48,"body":"linguistic animal, a cooperative animal."},{"startTime":3280.56,"endTime":3282.72,"body":"So music is the foundation"},{"startTime":3282.72,"endTime":3284.92,"body":"upon which everything else is, is,"},{"startTime":3284.92,"endTime":3288.4,"body":"has later emerged for us as a species."},{"startTime":3289.24,"endTime":3289.92,"body":"It's,"},{"startTime":3289.92,"endTime":3291.08,"body":"we are a very fine"},{"startTime":3291.08,"endTime":3293.68,"body":"example of the fact that sound"},{"startTime":3293.68,"endTime":3296.8,"body":"and communicative strategies in sound,"},{"startTime":3296.8,"endTime":3297.44,"body":"which you hear"},{"startTime":3297.44,"endTime":3299.44,"body":"in, in all kinds of different animals"},{"startTime":3299.44,"endTime":3300.52,"body":"and, you know, the birds"},{"startTime":3300.52,"endTime":3301.32,"body":"singing in the dawn"},{"startTime":3301.32,"endTime":3303.16,"body":"chorus is another good example"},{"startTime":3303.16,"endTime":3305.4,"body":"of a communicative strategy"},{"startTime":3305.4,"endTime":3307.24,"body":"that allows them to resolve their"},{"startTime":3307.24,"endTime":3308.56,"body":"their interactions"},{"startTime":3308.56,"endTime":3310.68,"body":"and relationships with each other."},{"startTime":3310.68,"endTime":3312.72,"body":"So these strategies of using sound"},{"startTime":3312.72,"endTime":3314.84,"body":"when they evolve, it's like nature"},{"startTime":3314.84,"endTime":3316.68,"body":"says, well, that's a damn good idea."},{"startTime":3316.68,"endTime":3317.76,"body":"Let's run with that."},{"startTime":3317.76,"endTime":3319.32,"body":"And before you know it,"},{"startTime":3319.32,"endTime":3320.48,"body":"we've got a species"},{"startTime":3320.48,"endTime":3323.56,"body":"that sings and dances until stories"},{"startTime":3324.04,"endTime":3326.76,"body":"and can develop a language and cooperate."},{"startTime":3328.52,"endTime":3331.52,"body":"And here we are."},{"startTime":3346.04,"endTime":3346.8,"body":"elements are"},{"startTime":3346.8,"endTime":3348.12,"body":"really I,"},{"startTime":3348.12,"endTime":3349.6,"body":"which I truly believe"},{"startTime":3349.6,"endTime":3351.04,"body":"bring us back to our heart."},{"startTime":3351.04,"endTime":3352.68,"body":"And"},{"startTime":3352.68,"endTime":3354.8,"body":"I think the more we're intertwined"},{"startTime":3354.8,"endTime":3356.28,"body":"with nature,"},{"startTime":3356.28,"endTime":3357.4,"body":"the more we feel like"},{"startTime":3357.4,"endTime":3360.4,"body":"we're living from the heart and"},{"startTime":3361.88,"endTime":3364.88,"body":"before we wrap up, I would actually love"},{"startTime":3369.96,"endTime":3370.68,"body":"You."},{"startTime":3370.68,"endTime":3372.96,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3372.96,"endTime":3375.96,"body":"on what it means to you"},{"startTime":3376.56,"endTime":3379.56,"body":"to become more of a heart led society."},{"startTime":3385.88,"endTime":3388.88,"body":"It's a really important question, because"},{"startTime":3389.6,"endTime":3392.6,"body":"we tend to think that,"},{"startTime":3392.72,"endTime":3395.72,"body":"that there isn't any direction"},{"startTime":3395.72,"endTime":3397.24,"body":"to our sociology."},{"startTime":3397.24,"endTime":3398.92,"body":"We simply our societies."},{"startTime":3398.92,"endTime":3400.36,"body":"But"},{"startTime":3400.36,"endTime":3403.32,"body":"if you think of the structures of society"},{"startTime":3403.32,"endTime":3404.44,"body":"as being,"},{"startTime":3404.44,"endTime":3407.44,"body":"kind of engineering structures,"},{"startTime":3408.28,"endTime":3409.52,"body":"that they have a purpose,"},{"startTime":3409.52,"endTime":3410.84,"body":"then you have to start thinking about,"},{"startTime":3410.84,"endTime":3412.12,"body":"well, what's the purpose"},{"startTime":3412.12,"endTime":3412.52,"body":"that you're"},{"startTime":3412.52,"endTime":3415.44,"body":"trying to achieve in your society?"},{"startTime":3415.44,"endTime":3415.92,"body":"And to me,"},{"startTime":3415.92,"endTime":3417.72,"body":"I would say it comes down to health"},{"startTime":3417.72,"endTime":3421.64,"body":"and well-being and, and,"},{"startTime":3421.64,"endTime":3423.44,"body":"a sense of homeostasis"},{"startTime":3423.44,"endTime":3425.48,"body":"and, sustainability"},{"startTime":3425.48,"endTime":3427.08,"body":"in harmony with the natural world."},{"startTime":3427.08,"endTime":3428.64,"body":"Because if we don't have those things,"},{"startTime":3428.64,"endTime":3430.36,"body":"we're simply not going to survive."},{"startTime":3430.36,"endTime":3433.36,"body":"This is this is what nature tells us."},{"startTime":3433.52,"endTime":3435.44,"body":"Competitive processes"},{"startTime":3435.44,"endTime":3438.4,"body":"and not advantageous. So"},{"startTime":3439.72,"endTime":3440.72,"body":"it seems to me that"},{"startTime":3440.72,"endTime":3441.68,"body":"what we"},{"startTime":3441.68,"endTime":3443.16,"body":"need to be thinking about,"},{"startTime":3443.16,"endTime":3446.28,"body":"as is those values of society."},{"startTime":3446.28,"endTime":3448.64,"body":"And then what are the processes"},{"startTime":3448.64,"endTime":3450.16,"body":"that are going to bring those values out?"},{"startTime":3450.16,"endTime":3451.2,"body":"And we've been working on this"},{"startTime":3451.2,"endTime":3451.88,"body":"for a long time."},{"startTime":3451.88,"endTime":3453.08,"body":"A lot of,"},{"startTime":3453.08,"endTime":3454.88,"body":"the democratic institutions,"},{"startTime":3454.88,"endTime":3456.92,"body":"the concept of civil society,"},{"startTime":3456.92,"endTime":3457.64,"body":"for instance,"},{"startTime":3457.64,"endTime":3460.64,"body":"is attempting to address these issues."},{"startTime":3461.16,"endTime":3463.28,"body":"But where we haven't got to is thinking"},{"startTime":3463.28,"endTime":3465.32,"body":"about our cognitive process."},{"startTime":3465.32,"endTime":3466.76,"body":"And this has only been emerging"},{"startTime":3466.76,"endTime":3467.92,"body":"in the last hundred years"},{"startTime":3467.92,"endTime":3470.92,"body":"or so with neurological studies."},{"startTime":3470.96,"endTime":3472.0,"body":"And it is still"},{"startTime":3472.0,"endTime":3473.96,"body":"our minds are still being exploited"},{"startTime":3473.96,"endTime":3475.04,"body":"by capitalism"},{"startTime":3475.04,"endTime":3476.76,"body":"and by politics,"},{"startTime":3476.76,"endTime":3479.12,"body":"for their own interests."},{"startTime":3479.12,"endTime":3482.12,"body":"And, so."},{"startTime":3482.36,"endTime":3485.12,"body":"I think the, the answer to your question"},{"startTime":3485.12,"endTime":3486.6,"body":"is, Look,"},{"startTime":3486.6,"endTime":3489.6,"body":"I think there's a really important"},{"startTime":3489.6,"endTime":3491.0,"body":"consideration here,"},{"startTime":3491.0,"endTime":3493.32,"body":"and I'll just throw this one out because"},{"startTime":3493.32,"endTime":3493.92,"body":"I'm not."},{"startTime":3494.88,"endTime":3496.4,"body":"I've heard people."},{"startTime":3496.4,"endTime":3499.4,"body":"I've read the research on this."},{"startTime":3499.48,"endTime":3500.6,"body":"When you're talking about heart,"},{"startTime":3500.6,"endTime":3502.72,"body":"you're talking about sensitivity,"},{"startTime":3502.72,"endTime":3505.4,"body":"being open and sensitive."},{"startTime":3505.4,"endTime":3507.12,"body":"And"},{"startTime":3507.12,"endTime":3509.4,"body":"the human species is diverse."},{"startTime":3509.4,"endTime":3511.16,"body":"Human population is diverse,"},{"startTime":3511.16,"endTime":3513.32,"body":"and it's diverse in terms of sensitivity."},{"startTime":3513.32,"endTime":3515.68,"body":"Not everyone has the same capacity"},{"startTime":3515.68,"endTime":3517.64,"body":"for sensitivity."},{"startTime":3517.64,"endTime":3519.64,"body":"And that has profound implications,"},{"startTime":3519.64,"endTime":3520.6,"body":"because whilst"},{"startTime":3520.6,"endTime":3521.28,"body":"some people,"},{"startTime":3521.28,"endTime":3524.44,"body":"they want to live in their heart space,"},{"startTime":3524.44,"endTime":3526.48,"body":"they want to live by the beauty"},{"startTime":3526.48,"endTime":3528.44,"body":"and esthetics of of life"},{"startTime":3528.44,"endTime":3530.12,"body":"and the world, that sense of harmony"},{"startTime":3530.12,"endTime":3532.16,"body":"and integration. Other people don't."},{"startTime":3532.16,"endTime":3532.68,"body":"They have"},{"startTime":3532.68,"endTime":3534.12,"body":"no idea what you're talking about."},{"startTime":3534.12,"endTime":3536.92,"body":"Couldn't get really, could not care less."},{"startTime":3536.92,"endTime":3538.6,"body":"They want something different."},{"startTime":3538.6,"endTime":3541.12,"body":"And whether you call that power"},{"startTime":3541.12,"endTime":3542.92,"body":"or control,"},{"startTime":3542.92,"endTime":3545.68,"body":"you know, it depends on your language,"},{"startTime":3545.68,"endTime":3546.4,"body":"I suppose."},{"startTime":3546.4,"endTime":3549.0,"body":"But it's quite clear that,"},{"startTime":3549.0,"endTime":3549.76,"body":"they don't really care"},{"startTime":3549.76,"endTime":3551.68,"body":"about the same things that"},{"startTime":3551.68,"endTime":3553.24,"body":"I might or you might."},{"startTime":3554.36,"endTime":3556.92,"body":"So whatever we do,"},{"startTime":3556.92,"endTime":3557.8,"body":"it has to"},{"startTime":3557.8,"endTime":3561.32,"body":"encompass the entire of human existence."},{"startTime":3562.08,"endTime":3564.04,"body":"And going back to evolution briefly,"},{"startTime":3564.04,"endTime":3564.92,"body":"just to give"},{"startTime":3564.92,"endTime":3566.44,"body":"an understanding where"},{"startTime":3566.44,"endTime":3568.84,"body":"this might have originated."},{"startTime":3568.84,"endTime":3571.2,"body":"If you think of a hunter gatherer tribe"},{"startTime":3571.2,"endTime":3573.24,"body":"and then they know that far in the past,"},{"startTime":3573.24,"endTime":3574.84,"body":"you know, we're only talking about"},{"startTime":3574.84,"endTime":3578.2,"body":"maybe ten home or 10,000 years."},{"startTime":3578.48,"endTime":3581.48,"body":"It's not long into in evolutionary terms."},{"startTime":3582.28,"endTime":3583.64,"body":"And so you have a community"},{"startTime":3583.64,"endTime":3585.0,"body":"based on hunting and gathering."},{"startTime":3585.0,"endTime":3586.96,"body":"Now as a gatherer,"},{"startTime":3586.96,"endTime":3588.08,"body":"you're going out,"},{"startTime":3588.08,"endTime":3590.68,"body":"you know, taking the children,"},{"startTime":3590.68,"endTime":3592.24,"body":"the elderly,"},{"startTime":3592.24,"endTime":3593.08,"body":"and you're sitting down"},{"startTime":3593.08,"endTime":3595.4,"body":"quietly and you're foraging."},{"startTime":3595.4,"endTime":3596.92,"body":"Whatever you're doing,"},{"startTime":3596.92,"endTime":3600.4,"body":"it's a time to sing, to tell stories, to"},{"startTime":3600.4,"endTime":3601.4,"body":"create culture,"},{"startTime":3601.4,"endTime":3604.4,"body":"to care and nurture and look after."},{"startTime":3604.76,"endTime":3606.68,"body":"That's where the sensitivity comes in."},{"startTime":3606.68,"endTime":3608.84,"body":"Meanwhile, the other half of the tribe"},{"startTime":3608.84,"endTime":3610.6,"body":"have gone out hunting."},{"startTime":3610.6,"endTime":3612.76,"body":"Now, as a hunter,"},{"startTime":3612.76,"endTime":3614.08,"body":"you don't want to think for yourself."},{"startTime":3614.08,"endTime":3615.68,"body":"You want to follow the leader."},{"startTime":3615.68,"endTime":3616.56,"body":"The leader tells"},{"startTime":3616.56,"endTime":3618.08,"body":"you exactly what we're going to do,"},{"startTime":3618.08,"endTime":3619.36,"body":"and you have to follow them"},{"startTime":3619.36,"endTime":3620.92,"body":"without thinking."},{"startTime":3620.92,"endTime":3623.92,"body":"And you have to be insensitive to pain,"},{"startTime":3624.4,"endTime":3625.4,"body":"to your own pain,"},{"startTime":3625.4,"endTime":3626.32,"body":"to the possibility"},{"startTime":3626.32,"endTime":3627.32,"body":"that you might be injured,"},{"startTime":3627.32,"endTime":3628.12,"body":"you might be killed."},{"startTime":3628.12,"endTime":3630.2,"body":"You might see your colleagues"},{"startTime":3630.2,"endTime":3631.36,"body":"injured or killed."},{"startTime":3631.36,"endTime":3633.28,"body":"You have to get that that animal."},{"startTime":3633.28,"endTime":3635.28,"body":"Otherwise the tribe doesn't eat."},{"startTime":3635.28,"endTime":3636.92,"body":"And they might be spiritual,"},{"startTime":3636.92,"endTime":3638.56,"body":"connotations"},{"startTime":3638.56,"endTime":3641.08,"body":"with this of respecting the animal"},{"startTime":3641.08,"endTime":3642.68,"body":"that you're killing and so on."},{"startTime":3642.68,"endTime":3644.92,"body":"And, and it's kind of interacting"},{"startTime":3644.92,"endTime":3646.56,"body":"with its spirit"},{"startTime":3646.56,"endTime":3648.64,"body":"in some way to create a dialog"},{"startTime":3648.64,"endTime":3650.6,"body":"and understanding and empathy"},{"startTime":3650.6,"endTime":3653.12,"body":"with, with the prey."},{"startTime":3653.12,"endTime":3653.92,"body":"But nevertheless,"},{"startTime":3653.92,"endTime":3656.12,"body":"you have to be insensitive to do that."},{"startTime":3657.08,"endTime":3658.0,"body":"So it's possible"},{"startTime":3658.0,"endTime":3658.32,"body":"that our"},{"startTime":3658.32,"endTime":3659.44,"body":"human sensitivities"},{"startTime":3659.44,"endTime":3661.0,"body":"have diverged into these"},{"startTime":3661.0,"endTime":3661.6,"body":"these"},{"startTime":3661.6,"endTime":3664.84,"body":"not necessarily two different camps, but"},{"startTime":3665.44,"endTime":3668.0,"body":"but different qualities."},{"startTime":3668.0,"endTime":3670.36,"body":"And so in our modern world,"},{"startTime":3670.36,"endTime":3671.76,"body":"we have to accommodate"},{"startTime":3671.76,"endTime":3673.12,"body":"the fact that"},{"startTime":3673.12,"endTime":3676.12,"body":"not everyone wants beauty in their lives."},{"startTime":3676.24,"endTime":3678.32,"body":"Some people just love power."},{"startTime":3678.32,"endTime":3681.08,"body":"They love big engines and big boats"},{"startTime":3681.08,"endTime":3682.56,"body":"and lots of noise."},{"startTime":3682.56,"endTime":3684.52,"body":"And getting out there and,"},{"startTime":3684.52,"endTime":3686.68,"body":"you know, yahoo ING around"},{"startTime":3686.68,"endTime":3689.68,"body":"and you know, that's that's a reality."},{"startTime":3689.8,"endTime":3693.28,"body":"So whatever we're thinking about"},{"startTime":3693.28,"endTime":3694.6,"body":"in terms of the way"},{"startTime":3694.6,"endTime":3696.64,"body":"that we structure a society,"},{"startTime":3696.64,"endTime":3697.44,"body":"once again,"},{"startTime":3697.44,"endTime":3700.2,"body":"you used the word biomimicry earlier on,"},{"startTime":3700.2,"endTime":3700.88,"body":"and I think it's a"},{"startTime":3700.88,"endTime":3702.04,"body":"it's a gorgeous word"},{"startTime":3702.04,"endTime":3705.04,"body":"because it implies many things."},{"startTime":3705.04,"endTime":3707.08,"body":"Firstly, that we actually listen to"},{"startTime":3707.08,"endTime":3708.68,"body":"and respect the natural world,"},{"startTime":3708.68,"endTime":3710.44,"body":"and secondly, that we learn"},{"startTime":3710.44,"endTime":3713.12,"body":"not just about nature through listening,"},{"startTime":3713.12,"endTime":3714.52,"body":"studying, whatever,"},{"startTime":3714.52,"endTime":3715.96,"body":"but that we learn from nature,"},{"startTime":3716.92,"endTime":3719.92,"body":"which is a very different consideration."},{"startTime":3720.16,"endTime":3722.0,"body":"And what we learn from nature"},{"startTime":3722.0,"endTime":3723.72,"body":"is that cooperation works."},{"startTime":3723.72,"endTime":3726.08,"body":"Cooperation across diversity"},{"startTime":3726.08,"endTime":3728.48,"body":"avoid competition"},{"startTime":3728.48,"endTime":3730.68,"body":"where contention and argument"},{"startTime":3730.68,"endTime":3732.64,"body":"or debate is required."},{"startTime":3732.64,"endTime":3735.64,"body":"Do it in a way that doesn't cause harm."},{"startTime":3735.88,"endTime":3738.24,"body":"And from all of those following"},{"startTime":3738.24,"endTime":3740.32,"body":"those principles can come"},{"startTime":3740.32,"endTime":3741.4,"body":"social structures,"},{"startTime":3741.4,"endTime":3744.56,"body":"democratic structures of, inclusion,"},{"startTime":3745.48,"endTime":3748.64,"body":"respect and participation,"},{"startTime":3748.72,"endTime":3751.24,"body":"I think is an absolutely key one."},{"startTime":3751.24,"endTime":3753.56,"body":"I think to think creatively"},{"startTime":3753.56,"endTime":3757.4,"body":"about society, politics very economics"},{"startTime":3758.36,"endTime":3759.08,"body":"at the moment."},{"startTime":3759.08,"endTime":3762.08,"body":"Our economics is very much a win lose"},{"startTime":3762.08,"endTime":3765.08,"body":"wealth, profit power kind of dynamic."},{"startTime":3765.68,"endTime":3767.12,"body":"And that means that"},{"startTime":3767.12,"endTime":3769.16,"body":"we're actually out of control of it."},{"startTime":3769.16,"endTime":3770.6,"body":"We can't make decisions"},{"startTime":3770.6,"endTime":3772.84,"body":"that aren't profit based."},{"startTime":3772.84,"endTime":3775.88,"body":"And so it's a paradox, isn't it, that"},{"startTime":3776.64,"endTime":3777.92,"body":"people have won control"},{"startTime":3777.92,"endTime":3779.96,"body":"or actually the least in control,"},{"startTime":3781.72,"endTime":3782.64,"body":"because they can't do"},{"startTime":3782.64,"endTime":3785.64,"body":"anything other than follow the money."},{"startTime":3785.8,"endTime":3789.08,"body":"So, so all of these things"},{"startTime":3789.08,"endTime":3789.84,"body":"need to be thought"},{"startTime":3789.84,"endTime":3791.0,"body":"about in the context"},{"startTime":3791.0,"endTime":3793.96,"body":"of how nature has evolved over"},{"startTime":3793.96,"endTime":3795.36,"body":"not just hundreds of thousands,"},{"startTime":3795.36,"endTime":3796.68,"body":"but billions of years"},{"startTime":3796.68,"endTime":3797.88,"body":"to create"},{"startTime":3797.88,"endTime":3800.96,"body":"viable, functioning living systems."},{"startTime":3801.2,"endTime":3802.16,"body":"We have to work out"},{"startTime":3802.16,"endTime":3803.68,"body":"how we're going to do it ourselves,"},{"startTime":3803.68,"endTime":3806.08,"body":"and it needs to encompass that,"},{"startTime":3806.08,"endTime":3808.92,"body":"that human diversity of sensitivity"},{"startTime":3808.92,"endTime":3813.2,"body":"as well as, kind of get out there"},{"startTime":3813.2,"endTime":3815.44,"body":"and do it kind of,"},{"startTime":3815.44,"endTime":3818.44,"body":"insensitivity in a way."},{"startTime":3819.32,"endTime":3822.16,"body":"So it's a, it's a complex thing,"},{"startTime":3822.16,"endTime":3825.8,"body":"but there are a lot of really good minds"},{"startTime":3825.8,"endTime":3826.72,"body":"thinking about it"},{"startTime":3826.72,"endTime":3827.56,"body":"and working on it"},{"startTime":3827.56,"endTime":3831.16,"body":"and developing ideas, trialing ideas in,"},{"startTime":3831.2,"endTime":3835.64,"body":"in, you know, in, in small spaces,"},{"startTime":3836.96,"endTime":3838.4,"body":"working groups and so on."},{"startTime":3838.4,"endTime":3840.24,"body":"So I think there's"},{"startTime":3840.24,"endTime":3841.76,"body":"I'm actually pretty optimistic,"},{"startTime":3841.76,"endTime":3844.24,"body":"I think as we move,"},{"startTime":3844.24,"endTime":3844.64,"body":"you know,"},{"startTime":3844.64,"endTime":3845.6,"body":"you were saying earlier"},{"startTime":3845.6,"endTime":3847.36,"body":"about these cycles,"},{"startTime":3847.36,"endTime":3850.04,"body":"these big cycles of history."},{"startTime":3850.04,"endTime":3852.72,"body":"And I think our knowledge"},{"startTime":3852.72,"endTime":3855.56,"body":"of who we are as a species,"},{"startTime":3855.56,"endTime":3856.76,"body":"of how our brains"},{"startTime":3856.76,"endTime":3858.96,"body":"and our limbic system work"},{"startTime":3858.96,"endTime":3861.8,"body":"and motivations have fears,"},{"startTime":3861.8,"endTime":3865.04,"body":"and what we desire in life, I think"},{"startTime":3865.08,"endTime":3865.88,"body":"as we're learning"},{"startTime":3865.88,"endTime":3868.88,"body":"more and more about that, we're refining"},{"startTime":3868.92,"endTime":3871.76,"body":"both social structures, democratic"},{"startTime":3871.76,"endTime":3873.72,"body":"and so on."},{"startTime":3873.72,"endTime":3878.16,"body":"And bringing it more to a human level."},{"startTime":3878.16,"endTime":3879.44,"body":"I'm optimistic"},{"startTime":3879.44,"endTime":3881.04,"body":"that we'll find a way forward."},{"startTime":3881.04,"endTime":3882.24,"body":"there's so much in there"},{"startTime":3882.24,"endTime":3884.44,"body":"Andrew and I feel like"},{"startTime":3884.44,"endTime":3887.44,"body":"we have covered so many avenues"},{"startTime":3887.52,"endTime":3891.36,"body":"can really tell that you have listened"},{"startTime":3891.36,"endTime":3893.32,"body":"so deeply in your life"},{"startTime":3893.32,"endTime":3895.8,"body":"to the point of understanding"},{"startTime":3895.8,"endTime":3898.8,"body":"human nature, evolution,"},{"startTime":3899.2,"endTime":3900.72,"body":"different species"},{"startTime":3900.72,"endTime":3903.2,"body":"and how everything is intertwined."},{"startTime":3909.92,"endTime":3911.16,"body":"I guess, more"},{"startTime":3911.16,"endTime":3912.88,"body":"sensitive to the environment,"},{"startTime":3912.88,"endTime":3916.44,"body":"the more we can evolve in that,"},{"startTime":3916.44,"endTime":3918.24,"body":"in that direction as well,"},{"startTime":3918.24,"endTime":3920.92,"body":"and become more sensitive creatures"},{"startTime":3920.92,"endTime":3922.2,"body":"as well as having,"},{"startTime":3922.2,"endTime":3922.44,"body":"you know,"},{"startTime":3922.44,"endTime":3923.96,"body":"using our mind in a way"},{"startTime":3923.96,"endTime":3927.04,"body":"that is beneficial to the earth"},{"startTime":3927.04,"endTime":3928.64,"body":"and to to our communities"},{"startTime":3928.64,"endTime":3932.16,"body":"and to ourselves and is not destructive."},{"startTime":3932.48,"endTime":3933.96,"body":"I agree with all of that."},{"startTime":3933.96,"endTime":3937.64,"body":"And you know I think in what I'm saying"},{"startTime":3938.16,"endTime":3940.84,"body":"there's a limitation in my thinking"},{"startTime":3940.84,"endTime":3942.28,"body":"which is that"},{"startTime":3942.28,"endTime":3944.8,"body":"I have a lot of time out in the bush"},{"startTime":3944.8,"endTime":3946.48,"body":"when you're at with microphones"},{"startTime":3946.48,"endTime":3948.16,"body":"and recording, as I have done"},{"startTime":3948.16,"endTime":3949.6,"body":"over the years around the world,"},{"startTime":3949.6,"endTime":3951.8,"body":"it's pretty solitary exercise"},{"startTime":3951.8,"endTime":3954.28,"body":"and you get a lot of time just to reflect"},{"startTime":3954.28,"endTime":3957.12,"body":"and, engaged with what's going on"},{"startTime":3957.12,"endTime":3958.24,"body":"in nature around me."},{"startTime":3958.24,"endTime":3961.04,"body":"So the limitation in that"},{"startTime":3961.04,"endTime":3962.52,"body":"is that I don't have"},{"startTime":3962.52,"endTime":3964.84,"body":"that real world experience"},{"startTime":3964.84,"endTime":3966.52,"body":"of being in business"},{"startTime":3966.52,"endTime":3967.84,"body":"or being in government"},{"startTime":3967.84,"endTime":3969.0,"body":"or being in the cut"},{"startTime":3969.0,"endTime":3970.44,"body":"and thrust of have,"},{"startTime":3970.44,"endTime":3972.84,"body":"you know, the modern world."},{"startTime":3972.84,"endTime":3974.36,"body":"So what I'm saying in a sense,"},{"startTime":3974.36,"endTime":3976.36,"body":"is, is abstracted."},{"startTime":3976.36,"endTime":3977.92,"body":"And, you know,"},{"startTime":3977.92,"endTime":3980.28,"body":"I think what I'm saying is important."},{"startTime":3980.28,"endTime":3982.72,"body":"And, if there's any clarity"},{"startTime":3982.72,"endTime":3984.92,"body":"and overall perspective that I can offer,"},{"startTime":3984.92,"endTime":3986.28,"body":"then I feel very privileged"},{"startTime":3986.28,"endTime":3987.4,"body":"to be able to do that. But"},{"startTime":3988.72,"endTime":3991.4,"body":"how we actually take these ideas"},{"startTime":3991.4,"endTime":3994.4,"body":"and build them down to being practical,"},{"startTime":3994.6,"endTime":3997.88,"body":"applications of, of principles in nature,"},{"startTime":3998.52,"endTime":3999.56,"body":"that's,"},{"startTime":3999.56,"endTime":4000.48,"body":"that's for us all"},{"startTime":4000.48,"endTime":4002.88,"body":"to be creatively working on."},{"startTime":4002.88,"endTime":4004.44,"body":"And"},{"startTime":4004.44,"endTime":4006.8,"body":"the the practical application, that's"},{"startTime":4006.8,"endTime":4007.92,"body":"where it's at as well."},{"startTime":4007.92,"endTime":4010.52,"body":"We can, we can have so much knowledge."},{"startTime":4010.52,"endTime":4011.64,"body":"But if we're not applying"},{"startTime":4011.64,"endTime":4014.64,"body":"the practicalities of that Yeah."},{"startTime":4019.08,"endTime":4019.48,"body":"Well,"},{"startTime":4019.48,"endTime":4022.48,"body":"I think, you know, what is it,"},{"startTime":4023.24,"endTime":4025.48,"body":"circumstances, the mother of invention"},{"startTime":4025.48,"endTime":4027.16,"body":"or something along those lines."},{"startTime":4027.16,"endTime":4029.76,"body":"there will be a time"},{"startTime":4029.76,"endTime":4030.92,"body":"that we're going to have to"},{"startTime":4030.92,"endTime":4031.8,"body":"take all these,"},{"startTime":4031.8,"endTime":4033.24,"body":"these nice ideas"},{"startTime":4033.24,"endTime":4036.24,"body":"and, and start living by them"},{"startTime":4036.56,"endTime":4039.0,"body":"before we wrap up I would love to know"},{"startTime":4039.0,"endTime":4041.44,"body":"if there's any sort of things"},{"startTime":4041.44,"endTime":4042.76,"body":"you wanted to share with the listeners."},{"startTime":4042.76,"endTime":4044.8,"body":"Like what your book is called,"},{"startTime":4044.8,"endTime":4046.44,"body":"where they might find it,"},{"startTime":4046.44,"endTime":4048.12,"body":"where they might be able to attend"},{"startTime":4048.12,"endTime":4050.04,"body":"any of your, workshops or"},{"startTime":4052.72,"endTime":4053.2,"body":"No."},{"startTime":4053.2,"endTime":4056.08,"body":"Thank you. Haley."},{"startTime":4056.08,"endTime":4057.28,"body":"So the book is called Deep"},{"startTime":4057.28,"endTime":4058.6,"body":"Listening to Nature,"},{"startTime":4058.6,"endTime":4061.56,"body":"and it's available online at,"},{"startTime":4061.56,"endTime":4063.12,"body":"online booksellers"},{"startTime":4063.12,"endTime":4064.56,"body":"that can be printed on demand."},{"startTime":4064.56,"endTime":4066.16,"body":"Or it can."},{"startTime":4066.16,"endTime":4069.16,"body":"I can send one directly from,"},{"startTime":4070.36,"endTime":4072.24,"body":"a signed copy,"},{"startTime":4072.24,"endTime":4074.28,"body":"accessible from our website."},{"startTime":4074.28,"endTime":4077.28,"body":"And you can purchase it on our website."},{"startTime":4077.36,"endTime":4079.52,"body":"There's 30 years"},{"startTime":4079.52,"endTime":4081.44,"body":"worth of field recordings"},{"startTime":4081.44,"endTime":4082.48,"body":"all around the world"},{"startTime":4082.48,"endTime":4085.84,"body":"that are available on, platforms like,"},{"startTime":4085.96,"endTime":4088.96,"body":"Tidal and Spotify."},{"startTime":4089.56,"endTime":4091.48,"body":"And in terms of, of talks"},{"startTime":4091.48,"endTime":4093.0,"body":"and presentations,"},{"startTime":4093.0,"endTime":4094.0,"body":"this is something that"},{"startTime":4094.0,"endTime":4095.16,"body":"I really love doing"},{"startTime":4095.16,"endTime":4096.88,"body":"is standing up on my hind legs"},{"startTime":4096.88,"endTime":4098.52,"body":"and and giving a presentation"},{"startTime":4098.52,"endTime":4099.36,"body":"to an audience,"},{"startTime":4099.36,"endTime":4101.12,"body":"and it's just so much fun."},{"startTime":4101.12,"endTime":4102.24,"body":"I think that,"},{"startTime":4102.24,"endTime":4102.64,"body":"you know,"},{"startTime":4102.64,"endTime":4105.64,"body":"we live in such a digital world where,"},{"startTime":4105.64,"endTime":4106.76,"body":"you know, you,"},{"startTime":4106.76,"endTime":4107.56,"body":"you're literally"},{"startTime":4107.56,"endTime":4108.84,"body":"on the other side of the planet."},{"startTime":4108.84,"endTime":4110.84,"body":"As I talk to you now."},{"startTime":4110.84,"endTime":4112.6,"body":"But to actually be in a room"},{"startTime":4112.6,"endTime":4113.6,"body":"with, with other"},{"startTime":4113.6,"endTime":4114.44,"body":"living, breathing"},{"startTime":4114.44,"endTime":4115.32,"body":"people and,"},{"startTime":4115.32,"endTime":4116.88,"body":"and looking at them in the eye"},{"startTime":4116.88,"endTime":4117.92,"body":"and talking,"},{"startTime":4117.92,"endTime":4119.04,"body":"in real time"},{"startTime":4119.04,"endTime":4121.96,"body":"is, is a very special privilege."},{"startTime":4121.96,"endTime":4123.36,"body":"So I really enjoy that."},{"startTime":4123.36,"endTime":4126.96,"body":"But it's limited to where I can get"},{"startTime":4126.96,"endTime":4128.76,"body":"to, which at the moment is,"},{"startTime":4128.76,"endTime":4129.76,"body":"I've been traveling around"},{"startTime":4129.76,"endTime":4131.6,"body":"Australia for the last two years"},{"startTime":4131.6,"endTime":4133.28,"body":"giving talks."},{"startTime":4133.28,"endTime":4134.04,"body":"Amazing."},{"startTime":4134.04,"endTime":4135.52,"body":"Well thank you Andrew"},{"startTime":4141.48,"endTime":4144.48,"body":"Can."},{"startTime":4149.12,"endTime":4150.72,"body":"sensitivity to our environment"},{"startTime":4150.72,"endTime":4151.92,"body":"and a deeper"},{"startTime":4151.92,"endTime":4153.32,"body":"listening to ourselves"},{"startTime":4153.32,"endTime":4156.12,"body":"and the world around us."},{"startTime":4156.12,"endTime":4159.0,"body":"A lot to reflect on."},{"startTime":4159.0,"endTime":4160.12,"body":"We'd love to hear your thoughts"},{"startTime":4160.12,"endTime":4160.84,"body":"in the comments."},{"startTime":4160.84,"endTime":4162.2,"body":"What resonated with you"},{"startTime":4162.2,"endTime":4163.28,"body":"from this episode?"},{"startTime":4163.28,"endTime":4164.44,"body":"And maybe"},{"startTime":4164.44,"endTime":4165.68,"body":"what have you listened"},{"startTime":4165.68,"endTime":4167.68,"body":"deeply to today or recently"},{"startTime":4167.68,"endTime":4170.32,"body":"that's given you a fresh perspective"},{"startTime":4170.32,"endTime":4172.6,"body":"on the essence of life?"},{"startTime":4172.6,"endTime":4174.72,"body":"As always, we're so, so grateful"},{"startTime":4174.72,"endTime":4176.44,"body":"for your support each week."},{"startTime":4176.44,"endTime":4178.48,"body":"Whether it's a buy me a cuppa,"},{"startTime":4178.48,"endTime":4180.72,"body":"a share, or a download."},{"startTime":4180.72,"endTime":4182.12,"body":"Every little bit"},{"startTime":4182.12,"endTime":4183.24,"body":"helps us"},{"startTime":4183.24,"endTime":4185.56,"body":"to continue this journey with you."},{"startTime":4185.56,"endTime":4187.2,"body":"So thank you for being a part of it"},{"startTime":4187.2,"endTime":4189.2,"body":"and I hope you're enjoying"},{"startTime":4189.2,"endTime":4190.68,"body":"hearing my voice for a change"},{"startTime":4190.68,"endTime":4192.96,"body":"and all the wonderful people"},{"startTime":4192.96,"endTime":4194.24,"body":"with this special sub"},{"startTime":4194.24,"endTime":4196.24,"body":"series of future studying."},{"startTime":4196.24,"endTime":4198.64,"body":"And of course, Jade will be back"},{"startTime":4198.64,"endTime":4200.28,"body":"next week with another thought"},{"startTime":4200.28,"endTime":4201.52,"body":"provoking pod."},{"startTime":4201.52,"endTime":4203.48,"body":"So make sure you hit that download"},{"startTime":4203.48,"endTime":4205.64,"body":"button on Spotify or Apple"},{"startTime":4205.64,"endTime":4207.96,"body":"wherever you get your podcasts."},{"startTime":4207.96,"endTime":4211.36,"body":"And I hope your heart is well and so."},{"startTime":4211.36,"endTime":4212.88,"body":"So hold this week"},{"startTime":4212.88,"endTime":4214.92,"body":"with whatever you're moving through"},{"startTime":4214.92,"endTime":4218.48,"body":"and I will see you in a few weeks."}]}