In this episode, we welcome Stephen Jenkinson—writer, teacher, storyteller, and founder of the Orphan Wisdom School. Stephen is known for breaking open the marrow of language and returning it in all its poetic weight. His work on elderhood, grief, dying wise, and the making (and unmaking) of culture has touched people all over the world.

His newest book, Matrimony: Ritual, Culture, and the Heart’s Work, takes on what he calls the “mother of a culture”—the wedding. In a time when so many weddings risk becoming performances, spectacles, or non-events, Stephen asks: what would it mean to make a wedding real?

In this conversation we explore:

• Why vows are not the same as promises
• How families, friends, and communities become witnesses rather than spectators
• Why weddings matter in a culture of high divorce rates and discredited rituals
• What it means for the union of two people to implicate everyone present
• The difference between a ceremony that entertains and a ceremony that truly happens

This is not just a conversation about marriage. It’s about consequence, culture, and what it might take to make our ceremonies—and our lives—real.

Links You'll Love

Orphan Wisdom

Matrimony the Book

Arc + Craft: An Exploration of Creativity and Culture Making Event

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160 Manda Scott - Pondering how we became accidental gods of this land & seeking connection to it with humility not control

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 Lets dig into the quiet, radical world of seeds with plant breeder & seed keeper Gregg Muller. Gregg’s journey has been about more than growing food — it’s about safeguarding diversity, resilience & flavour in the face of a changing climate. From his work on the Cross Hemisphere Dwarf Tomato Project to the community breeding groups he champions, Gregg shows how ordinary gardeners can become part of something much bigger: shaping plants that thrive where we live. We talk about the simple, practical steps of saving seed, but also about the deeper shift in perspective — moving away from industrial uniformity & back towards local adaptation, community sharing & seed sovereignty. It’s a conversation that reminds us that resilience starts in our own backyards, one seed at a time 

Links You'll Love from Gregg:

•  Food Security through Biodiversity and Promiscuous Pollination by Joseph Lofthouse
• Breed Your Own Vegetable Varieties: The Gardener's and Farmer's Guide to Plant Breeding and SeedSaving By Carol Deppe
• https://goingtoseed.org/
•  https://osseeds.org/
•  Central Victorian Adaptive Crop Breeding Project  
• His online seed shop
•  https://www.seedsavers.org.au/

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Shane Simonsen - Taming the apocalypse

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We chatted about:

•  Saving seeds from homegrown vegetables.
• Creating new varieties through cross-pollination.
• The Cross Hemisphere Dwarf Tomato Project 
• Genetic diversity is crucial for resilient crops in changing climates.
• Diversity in crops helps ensure food security.
• Breeding as a community effort Community, fostering local adaptation & resilience
• Genetic diversity is crucial for climate resilience in crops
• Modern seed production often limits genetic diversity
• Rethinking agricultural practices can lead to better outcomes.
• Seed banks play a vital role in food security.
• Individuals can take practical steps to save seeds.

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 Today we’re pulling up a chair with Angela Clifford — farmer, food activist & founder of Eat New Zealand — to talk about the stuff that really matters: food, culture, community & the future our kids will inherit. Together we wander through big ideas & very real feelings — from the responsibility of feeding a nation to the grief & hope that come with caring deeply for place. Permaculture principles, family dynamics, natural systems & the wisdom that lives beyond humans all get a look-in. This one’s about finding steadiness in uncertain times & remembering that the way we eat, grow & gather can be an anchor for resilience, connection & joy. 

Links You'll Love

Eat NZ

The Food Farm

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Osprey Oriel Lake - the story is in our bones

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We chatted about:

• It's not just one person's work; it's a collective responsibility.
• Feeling a deep sense of obligation for future generations.
• Natural systems provide inspiration and strength.
• Small changes can shift large systems.
• Understanding food systems is crucial for meaningful contributions.
• Food citizenship empowers individuals to affect change.
• Cultural acknowledgment is essential in a national context.
• Permaculture principles guide long-term thinking.
• Community sufficiency is prioritized over self-sufficiency.
• Navigating family dynamics requires courage and shared values. Community thrives when the community thrives.
• In uncertain times, community becomes essential.
• Grief can lead to meaningful action.
• Natural landscapes offer grounding and wisdom.
• Personal experiences shape our understanding of the world.
• We can make a difference in our local environments.
• Elders can be found in nature, not just in humans.
• Facing grief allows for growth and perspective.
• Connection to the land is vital for our existence.
• We have a role to play in regeneration.

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 Spring is peeking through here in Southern Australia, and today we’re heading into the garden — but not just for veggies. We’re going a little wild for the birds, bees, and butterflies. Our guest, Jaclyn Crupi, lifelong gardener and many times author, grew up with her nonna and nonno’s hands-in-the-dirt wisdom. These days, she’s transformed her patch beyond just a productive veggie garden into a thriving sanctuary that welcomes not just humans, but insects, birds, fungi — the whole backyard ecosystem. Whether you’ve got a big block, a small suburban yard, or even just a balcony, Jaclyn’s here to share how messy gardening and even a ‘lizard lounge’ can turn any space into a refuge for wildlife.

We chat about why those with their hands in the dirt are  leaving a legacy, telling  stories though our gardening & why we need messy gardens now more than ever.

Links to find Jaclyn

https://www.jaclyncrupi.com/

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Natasha Morgan shares her oak and Monkey Puzzle life

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We chatted about:

• Gardeners leaving legacies for future generations
• Embracing messy spaces
• Letting go of curation
• Transitioning our mindset
• Gardens as analogies for life
• The importance of biodiversity

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It’s about time Jade Miles takes the mic so we can pick her brain and her heart about ‘huddling’ for the future of all! We chat about what is our ecological work to do, our soul work to do as we come together in all kinds of communities.

We decolonise our minds by moving into our hearts: away from extraction and spectacle, toward opulence of the ordinary- soil under nails, soup shared warm, shared conversations around a fire, singing songs as ritual. We name the practices that bind us: huddle, muddle, cuddle- messy, tender, and profoundly effective.

Jade’s new book, Huddle, is a field guide for this future: small circles doing big things. Gather often. Trade skills. Move through initiation. Tell truer stories. Let the elders speak. Listen deeply. Make a ritual. Define your enoughness. In a time that worships scale, choose closeness. In a culture that fears the muddle, trust in the huddles!.

Because the way we will change the planet is not by shouting across the void but by huddling in, shoulder-to-shoulder, until courage becomes contagious and care becomes the norm.

Links You'll Love
If Women Rose Rooted - Sharon Blackie -- Duckworth

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We talked about

• Huddling is about coming together in community.
• Human interactions can be complex due to trauma and ego.
• Rituals help fill the gaps in our lives.
• Understanding our phases of life can guide our growth.
• Eldership and wisdom sharing.
• Ancestral connections can deepen our sense of belonging.
• Enoughness is crucial in a consumer-driven world.
• We must be mindful of our impact on future generations.
• Being heart-led creates a different world.

Loved this? Try these:

Jane Hilliard - "Enough-ness" do you have it?

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Ever wondered what lines a deer’s stomach? Or how to turn bark into tincture—or tea into a gateway to your primal self?

Meet Will and Eva: barefoot, leather-clad rewilders who traded ‘normal’ for firelight, foraging, and full-blown nature immersion. I first met them in a smoky tent at the Off Grid Living Festival—tea in hand, bird calls in the air, and stories thick as eucalyptus sap.

Since then, they've taught rewilding workshops at Black Barn Farm and reminded us all just how useless strategic planning feels when someone’s casually tanning a hide next to you.

Will’s a youth worker, Eva braved Alone Australia, and together they run Wild Beings—a living, breathing invitation to reconnect with the wildness written in our bones.

This one’s part campfire, part gut punch, part call to remember. Let's get barefoot!

Links You'll Love
Wild beings - Rewilding with Will and Eva

Sand talk - Tyson Yunkaporta

Emergence Magazine Podcast - is the river alive

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We talked about

Rewilding to live in balance with the ecosystem and for us as humans.

Going bush to slow right down to ensure the pace stays ‘human’

Grounding through crafts, string bags, leather making, hunting, fire lighting

The potency of being fire side to create transformation and to self regulate

Becoming a “Hunter” that practices reverence and honouring of a life by using ALL the pieces

Remembering ancient skills like tanning, hunting, bone broth making, 

Seeking knowledge keepers in all the forms and all the places

Will’s love of plants and hunting, Eva’s love of tanning and movement as a catalyst to rewild

Why learning these skills is a never ending journey of learning

Carving independence within their life of togetherness

Why seeing people learn gives eva hope

Sustaining ourselves on this continent with wild meat would provide an opportunity for native species to thrive

Finding a Sit spot

Finding people at the edges

Self directed rights of passage

Loved this? Try these:

Lisa wells - making a life at the end of the world

Billa - the woman at the Wild School

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 When did having twin basins and three toilets become the norm?  As an architect who bucks the idea of bigger-is-better Jane Hilliard uses the principle of “Enoughness” as a design principle for the built environment. Its better for both the natural environment and the people around us. It allows us to be rich in ways that matter instead of buying into the idea that grandeur will make us happy.
For her 'enough' looks like going out into her  backyard supermarket garden  picking something and cooking it. Its also having outdoor space & quiet, unstructured time to think. Guided by the principle of “enoughness,” she manages her work load to keep her energy output within her own capacity while meeting her modest need for resources to sustain her family and business. 

Links You'll Love

Designful - Janes design agency

Podcast partners ROCK!

Australian Medicinal Herbs 

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Show notes

Bringing her love of arts and social justice together
Sidestepping  stress and money in the architecture design world.
Ensuring sustainability isn't just an add-on rather than core to design
Why the endless pursuit of “more” and better is relentless and pointless
Asking  “what is enough?” starts with your values and how you want to feel. 

“I ask myself: What is enough work to sustain me, my creativity, my staff and the financial resources we need to sustain my practice.”

What "enough" looks like for her high-school age children.

“I enjoy causing a bit of a stir…not in a way that’s shaming anyone…but by pushing back on the system, not individuals.”
Working a 9 day fortnight
Small rituals like, morning coffee, starting the day outside, growing food, being present with her children. 
Normalising messy, lived in homes which change with the seasons and as its occupants get older.
Why central heating has loosened family ties 
Living in a smaller space with less resources helps us develop negotiation skills and foster connections.
 Simplify  life by starting with one thing. 
 How much are you packing into your week, or your year? 

“The more work I take on, the less time and energy I have for all the other projects we have already, and I’ll enjoy them a little less too.”

"We have everything we need to go forward into the future. It's not about gaining new knowledge or new skills or new technology or new tools. It's about stripping things back and getting rid of a lot of stuff."
We need to be grateful for how much the earth gives us and not to take too much.
Our culture is dominated by growth and seeking opportunity. The desire for more can be part of our status and identity.
People are trying to meet their needs with things instead of meaning.
A mentality that “I’ve worked hard and I deserve it” is a strong focus for Jane's clients.
Just because  "you've worked hard and deserve it"  doesn’t mean you should aim for the biggest and shiniest.
"We stay in tents and shacks when we go away, why can’t we bring this spirit into our own house? How about an outdoor kitchen…why not?"

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Helena Norberg-Hodge is a writer, filmmaker, international speaker and leader of the global localisation movement. 

She’s been promoting an economics of personal, social and ecological well-being for more than 40 years, and is one of the world’s most treasured environmentalists and visionaries.

Today Helena pulls up an apple crate at the Futuresteading campfire to share stories from Ladakh, lament the madness of globalization and light the way back (and forward) to oneness.

We discuss the true wealth of traditional societies, the dangers of scale and tech solutions, pressure to conform to a consumer monoculture, and the real economy of Mother Gaia. 
Oh, she’s brilliant folks. We’re so excited to welcome you into this conversation. 

LINKS YOU'LL LOVE

• World Localization Day
• Local Futures
• Noam Chomsky
• Small is Beautiful ~ E F Schumacher
• Naomi Klein
• Russel Brand
• Brian Eno

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We Talked About

• How she ended up on a remote plateau in Tibetan India.
• Discovering the healthiest, happiest, most peaceful people she had ever met.
• Existing under surveillance in times of political tension.
• The true wealth of traditional societies.
• Why people everywhere are being pressured to conform to a consumer monoculture.
• A  need for a deeper dialogue between the west and the global south.
• The path of separation; being herded into urban centres and separated from the land. 
• Instead of being dependent on the land, we became dependent on enormous institutions to meet our needs.
• Manufactured scarcity.
• The luxury of using more energy per person per capita… is it actually a luxury?
• Policy change is needed to make decentralisation possible
• Pollies on auto-pilot re. urbanisation. Governments are separating us from the sources of our food, creating unsustainable, toxic, energy-hungry situations in the name of growth.
• Why most people are getting poorer despite our obsession with growth. 
• Towards smaller towns and smaller cities. 
• When you shorten the distance between farm and table, you have market pressure towards diversity.
• What happens when people are replaced by energy and technology.
• Stay away from the propaganda that’s saying we need technological fixes.
• In Ladakh, everyone grows up with a multi-dimensional knowledge of how to grow, build, make clothes, dance, create. 
• How modernity negatively affects young people versus radiantly confident youth in Ladakh.
• Australia flies food to China to be processed before being flown back again.
• The things we aren’t hearing about in the climate movement.
• Are people in power totally evil? 
• Localisation is

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Summary
Akin to a cuppa while flicking through photo albums, this conversation is rich with stories of her lived experiences  across every continent &  through many decades. This wisdom holder has offered her life in service  by knowledge sharing. A much respected permaculture educator, her foundation is science based, heart felt & relational in every way. Her practical generosity has contributed to refugee camps in war torn countries and her commitment to empowering communities without becoming a guru  is refreshing. 

Links You'll Love

The Earth Restorers Guide - Rosemary Morrow
Earth Users Guide - Rosemary Morrow 

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Buy the Book - Futuresteading - live like tomorrow matters, Huddle - creating a tomorrow of togetherness

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We Talked about

Adaptation principles - Observe carefully, backup functions, seeing solutions, being prepared to make change & noticing
Is water more destructive than drought?
Creating a culture where people are comfortable to listen to their intuition
The critical value of eco literacy - taught in childhood but forgotten in adulthood
Building confidence in ourselves to enact change
Operating as a community rather than individuals who are side by side
Looking for change outside of ‘lobby groups’
The power of the collective rather than  individual leaders
Intuition is when you know something from a prior sensory input but haven't made it conscious yet - this relies on eco literacy and enables us to come up with solutions
Her Vietnamese experience - connecting traditional knowledge with permaculture principles using the pyramid approach of community teaching 
Removing guru’ism by teaching locally and inbuilding principles that ensure the original teacher is no longer needed because the knowledge is in the community 
Her scientific background has ensured she is less inclined towards whims, rather its focussed on critical thought
Making people eco literate by starting with a focus on the fundamentals
Why permaculture is not western middle class -  it is adaptable to traditional knowledge?
The role of traditional ritual and custom in building community - the Songs of Community
Singing to recognise climate, topography, people, direction, acknowledging the power and might of the natural over humans - keeps us small and in a sense of wonder 
Reading plants as secular or sacred
Ritual is acknowledge of our small scope, observation and awe
Seeing permaculture as a jigsaw where we can take the pieces we need for the places we are in
Permaculture is not an armchair discipline - it’s a discipline of service through knowledge sharing 
We are all as poor as the poorest person 
The power of permaculture in giving individuals agency and the ability to bring change

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We know that Western culture lives excessively, endlessly seeking the newest and shiniest new thing.  Its shocking that 40% of our food goes to waste, one third of our building materials are never even used. But this way of life will be short lived and thankfully being wasteful is now  on the nose and cool cats like Joost are making waves by making junk UBER COOL. What can we do to create a new way forward in what he describes as the most exciting time in human history?

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Buy the Book - Futuresteading - live like tomorrow matters, Huddle - creating a tomorrow of togetherness

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We Talked About

Keeping family as number one 
Keeping it real with family to ensure they are present
His journey through waste which began using other peoples junk
Spending his spare time in junkyards collecting and using other peoples waste
Even the poster boy doesn't get everything right - examples of things that haven't worked
For every project that gets up there are 3 or 4 which didn't - that’s having a go! And through the Process we discover a new way forward
Attracting like minded people to build a community and deliver amazing projects
Showcasing the innovation and vast knowledge that exists in this country
Creating binless hospitality businesses
Curating the message for living waste free so that people understand it.
Considering materials based on their ability to be recycled
Living in the most exciting time in human history
Getting creative to find solutions that allow us to continue our existing lives with minimal compromise
There's something mentally wrong with us when we endlessly chase the next, new, shiny, big thing. 
Being properly nourished and connected to the outdoors satiated our desires and replace our desire for STUFF.
Using plants to support our sleep
Reverting to primitive practices to reconnect to ourselves
Starting our day with simple, natural world practices
If we’ve got 3 hours to be on social media, surely we’ve got time to make our everyday actions more intentional.
We feel great after gardening not just because its sensorially beautiful but because you are breathing in microbiomes
Observation is a lost trait we need to rebuild
His fascination with the perfect sized branch for birds
All his buildings are covered in 8 mil rio mesh because it's perfect for the birds
If you really want to understand why he makes the decisions he does then check out his instagram pages

Links You'll Love

The Greenhouse film - 

Future Food System Instagram

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This homeschooling mum of three spends her days foraging, growing, swapping & upskilling all in the name of continuing to live her version of normal in an abnormal world where we've lost touch with our food, medicine & the natural world.
After taking her time with her families transition to this way of life, her newfound confidence & conviction ensures she won't be told what to do by big business or have her opinions changed by corporations. Although not all plain sailing-she shares valuable insights into the bumpy but ultimately rewarding path she's been on.
"Living in a cushioned culture is limiting in our ability to share skills & share knowledge"

Links You'll Love

Living the dream permaculture 

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We Talked About
Eating meat that you’ve met - being responsible for the whole life cycle
Stepping stones to this way of life - starting small, with what you’ve got
Learning from failure as you scale
The fallacy of being self sufficient
Foraging, bartering & selling excess of what you do grow to access the things you don’t grow
Why being dogmatic isn't always the answer to the long game
Homeschooling - learning happens everywhere, everyday
Being led by kids & their natural interest areas
Building a family rhythm around the personal needs of everyone in the family
Rebuilding normal
Why it’s difficult to be a people pleaser but stay true to yourself
Learning to trust your honesty will be supported & not knocked
It’s hard to live your normal in an abnormal world - the way we eat, shop treat people
Education of self  is the first step in shifting towards taking agency
Why food was her on-ramp to understanding how to make her own decisions
Accepting that a shift in our lives will take time - we each need to take it as we are ready
Transitioning via new skills & a new mindset
Letting this way of living be a lifetime of work
Learning one skill and mastering it each year
Using herbs to heal now and in the future
Learning to get used to people not agreeing with how she lives her life
Making mistakes in safe places while you learn
Learning how to manage microclimates
Building an annual seasonal rhythm to ensure balance
450sq m of intensive growing space for a family of five
300 sq metres managed by the kids
Water bath canning, dehydration
Collecting food waste every week by salvaging food from mainstream supermarkets to supplement her families food
Why she is opting for a house cow not a house goat
There’s always next year…..
Learning to forgive your short comings
Connecting without belonging
How not going to a school was a disadvantage
While she feels at home she doesn't feel like she belongs
Defying the odds of ‘surviving this life’ & thriving
Finding ways to connect with people who have different ideals
The value of relying on your neighbours - creating a sense of place by calling on your neighbours
Things only move at the speed of trust & a willingness to push through the awkward.
Sta

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Described as  'all striving no arriving…' Sarah thrives in the early stages of a movement - feeling her way into the zeitgeist of now & unpacks in ways that resonate with reality.  Ultimately driven by curiosity & shunning growth,  she talks about Wild Activism  as a responsibility of the current age with agency in tact. 

Having less fucks to give about speaking her mind & with a bipolar superpower, she shares how she is unlearning & returning to humanity to navigate out of a spiritual PTSD,  simultaneously saving but living the fuck out of  life’, and why she is off to Paris

Links You'll Love

• This wild and precious life - Sarah Wilson
• Helen Lewis interview with Jordan Peterson
• Helen Lewis - Difficult Women
• First we make the beast beautiful - Sarah Wilson
• Steve Jobs - Commencement Speech

Pod Partners Rock: Australian Medicinal Herbs        Code: Future5

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Show notes  

• Taking her cue from International women of strength
• Owning her intensity
• Has the lucky country become more racist and bigoted?
• Why laid back Aussies don’t want their comfort boat rocked by the reality of the less wealthy.
• Why Aussie’s are aching to not be the anti intellectual country down South
• Feeling into where the pain points are for the humans around her
• The story behind donating 100% of the I Quit Sugar profit
• Her conscious decision to live rather than take her life by stepping into the option of shedding everything and letting go of ALL the things she was attached to.
• Setting a 5 year goal to be content w not being beholden to the endless desire for more.
• Trodding her ego into the ground & the outcome thrusting her into growth 
• Every time she releases her grip & lets the flow of life back in - growth prevails.
• Learning to get engaged & enraged about the climate crisis
•  Turn anxiety into action
• We live in a culture where discomfort & inconvenience thrive yet we feel alive when we are on the edge & pushed out of our comfort zone.
• Lighting the way back to love
• Defining her Dharma
• Fostering indigenous children as a respite carer
• The responsibility of steadying yourself wh

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Fire has long been a revered force,  respected for its ceremonial holding, practical contribution to feeding, sterilising, warming, lighting and yarning around. These days though, few of us interact with fire regularly despite it connecting us to our ancestors and gently reminding us of what it means to be human. 

 Off the back of tragic circumstances when he was just 16, todays guest Cade Mcconnell, intentionally side stepped the drug fuelled, party filled scene that often lures late teens early 20 year men and instead went in search of what it meant to be a man. He found instead, ceremonial fires, yoga, men's circles, his feelings and what it means to operate in an intentional and sacred way.

He’s built his life around this way of being and in todays conversation we scratch below the mere mention of things like vision quests and sacred weddings and really unpack what it is to move through the world like this. 

For Cade - much of this begins with food, where it was grown it, how its prepared, who shares it and he says that by giving himself the git of making food intentional, it has rewritten his story and the rhythm of his life.

As a retreat caterer, who uses claypots for his cooking Cade says this way of preparing food is fundamentally about being in relationship with plants, clay and fire which is also the name of his book.

His mission is to bring a little earth into every kitchen.

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Pod Partners Rock: Australian Medicinal Herbs 

We talked about:

Rites of passage for young men

Claypot cooking

Creating more ceremony in our life

Holding our loved ones to account

Giving ourselves permission to take the time needed to create nourishing, love filled food

Mens circles and how they impact our living patterns

Building sacred communities

The impact of suicide

The value of counselling pre marriage

Why its important to build a strong foundation of trust and love for yourself before you offer this to another in marriage

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"Living as modern humans we are disconnected, out of place and don't belong in the same way as other species"

"If you're feeling called to do something larger than you - you should follow that"

Summary

Todays guest Elspeth Hay experienced a rewriting of all she had known when when one day she was grappling with the frustration that the area she calls home didn't have the ability to create more small scale, localised food systems because they were landlocked by the ocean and surrounded by established Oak forests. Until one day her belief and her story was challenged when she learned that we can eat acorns. From there  stories she’d believed her whole life began to unravel.  Not just about acorns but about the way humans have pattered ourselves to our current day reality.

This process led her to write a book titled feed us with trees. The journey of the book creation took her on an ancestral tour from New England USA to the UK, introduced her to indigenous wisdom keepers, gave her the courage to challenge the system we know to be true and hold empathy for the courageous wisdom knowledge holders that have kept nature based skills and interaction alive.

Elspeth is a is a wonderful story teller and with this skill alone I'm sure she is one of those humans who we need as the bridge to wherever it is we are headed.

"Our story is totally made up & doesn't follow any natural laws so we can look to other influences to rewrite it'

Loved this? Try these
Pod ep: Osprey Oriel Lake - the story is in our bones 

Pod ep: Hillary Giovale -becoming a good relative

Pod Partners Rock: Australian Medicinal Herbs code: future5

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 We talked about:

• Her birdwatching childhood that laid the groundwork for her landscape connection
• How chronic pain was a catalyst for change
• Why changing our story can reframe our patterning and behaviour
• Finding connection in the "common lands"
• Challenging the 'no farms no food story'
• Sidestepping the productivity story
• Why our colonisation story began with the desire to control labour
• Colonial expansion & the beginning of capitalism
• Letting go of the idea that we have ALL the answers
• Right story/wrong story
• Why this needs to be the work of an entire culture
• Basket weaving as her gateway to creating a new story
• The magic of song to rebuild a culture
• finding ways to connect you to place

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“We’ve lived fantastic lives because we’ve taken for granted the ecological damage we’ve done. Now we owe a debt"

Well respected ecologist Simon Mustoe has written a new book How to Survive the Next 100 Years: Lessons from Nature. In its pages there's a definite sense of encouragement because ultimately Simon believes we are already seeing indicators of monumentally important shifts in our relationship with earth. 

In todays conversation we tackle the dichotomy between wisdom & knowledge, deciding that “It doesn't necessarily mean how much you know - if you don't have the wisdom to interpret it & you can’t do anything worthwhile with it.

We discover the economic value of a whale when we really unpack what it does for the world & we conclude that the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy is one of the most important conservation books of all time.

“Ecosystem complexity makes it abundantly clear that we will NEVER understand everything completely.”

Loved this, try another: Digby Hall or Satyajit Das

Pod Partners Rock: Australian Medicinal Herbs

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We talked about:

• The wider impact of saving wildlife in our own backyards 
• Government  enabling communities to act as custodians & not corporations 
• How animals make ecosystems work & the impact on our daily lives 
• “We’re not in control of anything & we lack a comprehensive understanding of what it is we now need to do.”
• How 700 koalas were killed by a unilateral decision made behind closed doors.
• Valuing the human response to damaged nature.
• 11 x increase in the amount of funding available in the last decade for nature based solutions
• The localised opportunities for people to contribute to the livelihood that they belong to
• Bringing the voices of many for co-designed outcomes that leave legacy’s
• Environmental accounting; a transitionary solution to us becoming more connected to the ecosystem
• “The decline in our loss of species has had a greater economic impact than all the other climate issues combined”.
• Community led planning can unlock potential from nature based solutions.
• Being in relationship with ourselves, with our landscapes would take us back to the thing we know how to do well and become PART OF the functioning environment

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Have you ever had that moment where you question - but there MUST be another way?

Well in this conversation, Hayley and Matt Defina explore the journey of finding purpose and reprogramming our outdated ways or patterns to reach a more meaningful way of living.

Matt shares the importance of emotional expression in mental health and his personal experiences that led him to create Another Way, a company focused on intentional living. They discuss the societal pressures surrounding purpose, the impact of environment, and the need for self-care amidst life's demands. The conversation emphasises that purpose is not a destination but a continuous process of growth and connection with oneself and the community. 

In this conversation, Matthew Defina and Hayley explore the intricate relationship between love, fear, and personal growth. They discuss the importance of confronting inner fears, the balance between being and doing, and the necessity of community in fostering individual growth.

Find Matt Defina:

https://www.anotherway.au/

https://www.instagram.com/mattdefina_/
https://themancave.life/

More Like This:

Nic Warner ep

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We talked about:

• Purpose is an evolving journey rather than a fixed endpoint.
• Emotional expression is crucial for mental well-being and finding purpose.
• Self-care is essential, even for those with demanding responsibilities.
• Belief systems can create barriers to accessing one's true purpose.
• Creating space for self-reflection can lead to significant personal growth.
• The journey to purpose often involves overcoming fear and resistance.
• Community and support play vital roles in the pursuit of purpose.
• Intentional living aligns with one's authentic self and nurtures mental health.
• Recognising that actions often stem from love, not fear.
• Confronting inner fears is essential for personal growth.
• Nervous system regulation is foundational for emotional health.
• Finding balance between being and doing is crucial.
• Giving oneself permission to desire is a significant challenge.
• Community plays a vital role in personal healing and growth.
• The journey towards purpose often involves confronting limiting beliefs.
• Heart-led living requires courage and authenticity.
• Creating space for stillness allows for deeper self-awareness.
• The journey of self-discovery is ongoing and transformative.

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Do you fancy the idea of growing your own medicinal herbs for tinctures & tea Todays guest Elle from Australian Medicinal Herbs took the plunge following a career sidestep when she was diagnosed with PTSD & replaced a 17 year career in the police force with a seed to packet business that slowly but surely healed her trauma, engaged her girls & now helps people all over Australia. Today she shares her unfolding story  & offers practical guidance & wizened encouragement to get growing in order to take agency of your own health through the potency of healing herbs.

“Life is change - all the small steps you take lead you to another door or another window”

"Herbal medicine is slow medicine & our bodies have adapted to this for generations. Our bodies have certain responses to plants that they don’t to other medicines but we need to be connected & not detached"

More Like This:

Jane Stevens Futuresteading ep

Carolyn Parker Futuresteading ep

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We talked about:

• From domestic violence policing to medicinal herb tinctures
• PTSD diagnosis after 17 years.
• Refocusing on her small children & her own health
• How permaculture opened her up to a new way of being
• Discovering the truth about our long supply chain food system
• Herbs paved her path to healing post PTSD
• Seeing herbal remedies as MEDICINE
• Mullein is her secret love 
• Tulsi - a regulator which will find balance
• Trusting that your body knows what to do with itself to build vitality
• “I don’t recognise the person I used to be  - if you take steps towards this, you will eventually get there, be brave enough to persist”
• Normalising ‘grounding practice’
• Pushing back on handing over our health autonomy to doctors
• Have we normalised anxiety? What are the natural solutions
• Managing the rocks in our trauma backpack so it doesn't thwart us
• Methodically building a life that is home based, nourishing & flows in a seasonal rhythm
• Connecting to land & place & looking at things as a whole system
• Empowering her daughters to live the life they are called to.
• Keeping the Futuresteading podcast alive - GRATITUDE!

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Rarely in life do you meet someone who moves through the world in complete service of others, filling their cup through small but regular actions that offer the world gifts of time, seeds, toilet paper, knowledge. Todays guest is just this person, intrinsically generous…even going so far as to say she stores her excess yields in other humans which in turn proliferates the generosity bug & reap returning acts of kindness as gifted lemon slice & moving boxes.

Today we get to the bottom of what it looks like to blend permaculture principles into your life as a lifelong renter & we talk in earnest about the challenges of this prospect too & why its only getting harder to break the housing realities of so many in Australia, UK & the US.

We dive into why its so important to advocate for yourself when you are - in her words ‘neuro spicy’ & of course no conversation with the urban Nanna would be complete without a thorough rundown on all things foraging!!!

This chat coincides with the launch of Annas newly released book “Everyday Permaculture” which might well become one of those books that you find on the shelf in every household - it definitely SHOULD Be!

“Being so deeply steeped in capitalism makes it hard to ask people to become a permie not a consumer”

“I never expect any member of community to be doing better than others - everyone brings something to the table & we need to value that diversity to see all of us thrive” 

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Loved this, try another:

Anna the Urban Nanna previously

Pod Partners Rock: Australian Medicinal Herbs  discount code: future5 

We talked about-

• Growing up undiagnosed neuro spicy - “You’re not broken you’re just wired differently”
• Being a wisdom keeper
• Building confidence for self advocacy despite imposter syndrome
• Being accessible, taking small bites
• Seeing community as ‘A healthy forest’, messy, live, flourishing, decaying, breathing
• Finding ways to connect rather than divide
• There’s no room for consumerism in the foragers mindset
• Foraging teaches you to ask how much is enough
• Catching & storing energy in other people - breeding goodwill & gratitude 
• The destabilising vagaries of life as a renter- fighting against injustice to have a roof over your head 
• Housing crisis realities 
• Creating belonging when you don't have a stable location to call home.
• Breaking up with stuff & setting it free by gifting it to others who will use it.
• Building neighbourly relations
• Being an active part in the betterment of someone else's life
• Living with a spirit of generosity
• Creating a community corner of offerings for free
• Not existing in a monetary society
• COMMUNITY

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"We live in a society where uninitiated men grow up"

In this conversation, Hayley and Nick Warner explore the profound themes of transformation, relationships, and the importance of rites of passage in personal growth. They discuss the challenges of authenticity, the journey back to self, and the cost of inauthenticity in life and relationships. Nick shares insights on the significance of responsibility in relationships, the role of fatherhood as a rite of passage, and the necessity of returning to the heart in a society driven by the mind. The dialogue emphasises the importance of community, mentorship, and the healing power of facing one's pain and fears.

Nic Warner is a father, a mentor, a rites of passage facilitator, and an expert in personal growth, he has helped countless individuals unlock their potential, navigate change, and create lives of purpose and fulfillment across the globe. He focuses on work for both the masculine and feminine, a tantric approach, with a particular passion for helping men break through their masks and step into their truest essence. 

Pod Partners Rock: Australian Medicinal Herbs Discount code 'Future5' 

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Casual Support - Buy Me A Coffee
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We talked about

• Rites of passage are crucial for personal growth.
• Authenticity is often challenged by societal expectations.
• The journey back to self requires courage and trust.
• Inauthenticity can lead to a life unfulfilled.
• Responsibility in relationships is key to healing.
• Fatherhood is a significant rite of passage for men.
• Community support is essential for transformation.
• Pain can be a teacher if we allow it to be.
• Fear can guide us towards our true path.
• Living in alignment with one's heart leads to fulfillment.

Follow Nic Warner- https://www.nicwarner.com/

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"What would it mean for us to start asking questions via embodied feelings rather than spreadsheets & rational outcomes…turn off our head and turn on our belly."

“You don’t build communities you build relationships - communities build themselves”

Adrian Black is fresh off the plane from 5 weeks of living in an intentional community - a program designed to create a transformative culture. He shares his experience of transferring from being a series of individuals operating in cohesion of each other to operating as a whole via emotional release ceremonies with tears, grief, joy, laughter & dancing.

He normalises 'cortisol crying' - metabolising to release deep emotions & reminds us that we have just two needs: belonging & authenticity. He has learnt to avoid ‘happiness’  & ‘perfectionism’- which are colonial constructs that set us up to fail and he is now focussed on actively bringing people together to celebrate with people, give gratitude & take the energy of the world to focus on something beautiful and worthwhile.

His final advice is to check in regularly on three things - how are your thoughts, your feelings & your body.

References 

• Ceres
• Francis Weller - the Wild Edge of Sorrow
• Dr Gabor Mate
• Joanna Macey
• Glarisegg EDE

Pod Partners Rock: Australian Medicinal Herbs

Support the Show
Casual Support - Buy Me A Coffee
Regular Support - Patreon
Buy the Books - Futuresteading - Live Like tomorrow matters, Huddle - creating a tomorrow of togetherness

Loved this ep, try this one - Charlie Showers  

We chatted about:

• Live as nature not with nature 
• Having agency & care in how we make our decisions
• Ecovillage Design Education course 
• Awakening deep memory
• Relearning how to functionally live together in community
• Unpacking the word community
• Focus on Community first, Family second & individual third
• The role that grief plays in our world & what it truly means to be alive 
• When a physical space can hold SO many things & ask nothing in return
• Loneliness at an all time high 
• Accessing the interconnectedness of everything 
• Being authentic, not performative
• Hearts holding the heartbreak of the world around us
• What is your fear telling you - be curious
• “I don't always need the light, I just need to remember that it will return”
• Avoiding polarisation - replace this with “Experience all that is is to be human” 
• The role of ritual in community 
• Frustrated by the reductionist view of the most complex system of all time
• Why decision making isn't as simple as a list of pro’s & cons
• Making the community self aware of how to manage conflict
• Non linear decision making
• How do I show up in the relationships in my life. holding care, compassion & curiosity

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“Those who have descended from the colonisers, we carry privilege but we also suffer the need to apologise” 

Landscapes can etch into your very being & create a remembering. Making us feel whole & reminding us that we are just a thread in the complex web of the natural world. While somewhat insignificant your thread has a role to play as a relative to the threads it lies next too. The way we all interact with each other - both human and other than human, will be our making or our undoing.

Hilary Giovale, author of “becoming a good relative” is based in the ponderosa pine forests of Arizona, opposite a reservation & lives next to the sacred mountain of kinship which she now considers to be her most important teacher. This feels like an important conversation to have had - as two white women without indigenous heritage -  it feels uncomfortable to have, and we will forever be learning, but Hilary (a 9th generation settler in the United States) begins the process of unpacking what it means to be in right relationship with the people & place that we each call home - pushing past the burden of white fragility to build pathways of robust healing & reconnection to our landscapes - to reconciliation with first peoples.

She shares what it means to create ancestral alters & how to connect with these elders who’s stories she tells us, are still unfolding.

She reminds us that while the work we have to do is exceptionally confronting, grief won’t kill us & that the time to heal in the bosom of natural landscapes is now.

"Elders are always identified by the community, never by the individual - they are usually unwilling but always shows up for the community, is wise, is generous, is funny, is humble,  Our communities can guide us to where the elders are."

Loved this? Try another:    Indira Naidoo

Pod Partners Rock:Australian Medicinal Herbs Discount code 'Future5' 

Support the Show
Casual Support - Buy Me A Coffee
Regular Support - Patreon
Buy the Book - Futuresteading - Live Like tomorrow matters, Huddle, Creating a tomorrow of togetherness

We talked about

Being fed a whitewashed mythology that was a narrative constructed to serve the cultivation of industrialisation.

Realising she had been segregated from the truth of her countries culture

Intergenerational task of building right relations - backwards with her parents & forwards with her children

Creating ancestral alters

Eldership

Healing rituals/programs - ritualised apology & forgiveness

The history of settler colonialism has created trauma, damage, theft of knowledge, land & culture.

“Grief won’t kill you”

The relief of grief through letting tears flow

Common threads of wisdom which runs through indigenous cultures regardless of the continent

Going to the land in a reciprocal & respectful way & asking permission to be guided

Asking “how if at all can I help” informs how to be in right relationship

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“How we raise our children is facilitating a denaturing of our human-ness. The opportunity is to be centred within & rebuild our culture” 

Dan Kittridge is the bare footed gent who coined the term Nutrient density off the back of his dao-ist strategy to create a life that afforded him the time & space to be at home with his young family, living simply with just 10k per year on the land.

Over the next 20 years he became clear that his role was simply to serve & that it's not his job to know what he's doing or attempt to implement a plan rather to be sensitive to what's shown to him & respond in a way that was lead by love enabling him to get out of his head, get out of the ‘shoulds’  & get into the heart, asking instead, what flows.

The result has been the creation of the bionutrient institute, a global speaking profile & a life long commitment to renaturing which he says sits at the centre of solving the poly-crises we face.

“Having the right to land to provide adequate housing & food for every family should be a foundational right. The land cannot be sold but you have access to it sufficient for a simple life.”

"As long as we engage with a colonised mind of separation/fear/division, we will not be able to engage with an indigenous mind of love/flow & unity"

“As long as the structure of our lives require us to work jobs for money that are separating us from nature, we are paddling upstream. It becomes difficult to tune into the flow of nature.”

Loved this? Try these:

Manda Scott - Becoming accidental gods

Damon Gameau - A call to arms for storytellers 

Pod Partners Rock:Australian Medicinal Herbs  - discount code Future5

Support the Show
Casual Support - Buy Me A Coffee
Regular Support - Patreon
Buy the Books - Futuresteading - Live Like tomorrow matters  & Huddle Creating a tomorrow of togetherness

We talked about:

“We are not the body we are carrying around we are effectively individual consciousness that has physical attributes. Accepting this changes the way we interact with each other.”

What is a soul - is it ecological? Or is it transcendent love? 

Getting ourselves into right relationship requires a serious restructure of our way of being

Beginning to decolonise starts during early childhood 

The money vs time equation

The rule of law is a paradox of control that can be equally exasperating & supportive

Understanding that there is a greater order & you don't have to control everything - you just have to be receptive to what is shown to you.

Using nature to model ourselves- symbiosis. Be your own brilliant unique system & then add mycelium to connect others brilliance

The role that feelings have in the way we make decisions

We dont need to KNOW anything - we are already wired with the knowledge we need

If we just work with nature - we will remember who we are and what we are supposed to do.

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"I could live a lifetime here and still be learning  - it’s a relationship - the greatest relationship of my life"

Alice Irene Whitaker lives in a small cabin in the woods, is a mother of three, an author of the book “Homing" and host of the  'Reseed podcast, which is about rebuilding our relationship with nature.

Surrounded by creek, meadow, and forest, Alice Irene began a new lifelong journey of repairing her fractured relationship with both herself and the natural world. Dismantling a history of anorexia, obsessiveness, and workaholism, she decided to stop taking and start caretaking. 

She shares how taking the leap to a life in a small cabin in the woods where seasons are apparent, repetition is a daily mantra and a shedding of her previous identity onto the forest floor has given her an opportunity to  live a lifetime in her new landscape and still be learning from the outside world every day - she sees her surrounds as a relationship-the greatest relationship of her life. 

Loved this? Try another one:

Ep 122 Nat Wilmott - Living her dream

Pod Partners Rock: Australian Medicinal Herbs

 
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We talked about:

Shifting from an extractive life to a regenerative one

Falling in love with a landscape & experiencing the feeling of every cell in her body opening up.

Seeking treescapes

Acknowledging her body is built for creativity, rest & beauty not just output.

Listening to our own stories above the noise of the modern world

Rewriting our stories in the presence of the natural world rather than the presence of accolades, work & job promotions

Being a baby on her journey towards humanity

Justifying working like a machine because you are doing “burnout for good”

The paradox of finding rest despite being needed for the cause

When you take your growth mindset into the “for purpose” space - needing to unpack this.

Creating care and caretakers in our world.

Why care is not soft” and easy to dismiss but is as important as the wheels of industry

Motherhood transformation - the drama of opening up & cracking open to the idea of what is kept and what is left behind

Being oriented on suffering of others or peace for us all. Children have helped her enjoy the act of love & making it personal and care

Quote - “we are all mothers here”  it’s not just about giving birth but is needed for all of us and mother earth

What does it mean to go beyond the mothering of our own small household and relate this to

The power of repetition and observing the things which change and the things that stay the same.

Building relationships with both humans and non-human

Becoming child like when you sit & observe moss

Building networks of people who are interested in your niche areas of interest.

Natural world muse.

Being inspired by the tiny hummingbird

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"We need to cultivate a culture of listening in society." But what does it truly mean to listen?

In this episode, we delve into the profound impact that sound can have on our lives as we speak with renowned sound recordist Andrew Skeoch. With his expertise in capturing the essence of nature through sound, Andrew shares his journey of deep listening, the importance of empathetic listening, and how it connects us to the natural world and one another.

Andrew, the author of Deep Listening, records breathtaking natural habitats from across the globe which have gained worldwide attention, with albums that attract tens of thousands of weekly streams on Spotify. His work has also featured in major films like Rabbit Proof Fence, The Jungle Book (2016), and the upcoming Force of Nature starring Eric Bana.

Our conversation delves into the evolution of a heart-centered society that values cooperation over unhealthy competition. Andrew highlights the importance of understanding nature as an ongoing process and discusses how human sensitivity plays a crucial role in shaping our societal values. 

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Regular Support - Patreon
Buy the book - Futuresteading - Live Like tomorrow matters

Pod Partners Rock: Australian Medicinal Herbs  

Code for Discount: future5 

Andrew's Website: https://listeningearth.com/andrewskeoch/

We talked about:

• How to deeply listen, slow down and be present.
• Empathetic listening to nature and what we can learn by other species.
• Cooperation in nature often occurs across diverse species.
• Listening helps us connect with our inner selves and the environment.
• Nature's evolution shapes behaviors that benefit living systems.
• Listening is a powerful tool for social and political change.
• We need to cultivate a culture of listening in society.
• Nature teaches us that cooperation is more beneficial than competition.
• Human sensitivity varies, impacting societal values and interactions.
• We must learn from nature to create inclusive social structures.
• Practical applications of nature's principles are necessary for societal change.
• Understanding our evolutionary past can inform our future interactions.

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Claire is a multi generational Scottish beef farmer who says 'Ag has potency and potential to be a catalyst on the front line of climate catastrophe'.

As a Nuffield scholar 'exploring the scrutiny being placed on agriculture and how perceptions are changing', she embarked on a world research tour. While travelling, she fell in love with an Australian lad & now finds herself living in rural NSW. So after establishing a strong journalism career steeped in trust & long held relationships on home turf, she now finds herself on this wide brown land in the heat of summer without her networks & a need to rebuild a new life with people who she tells us are more laid back, more inclined to use humour dripping in sarcasm to navigate hard things & are exceptionally resilient.

“Leave judgements at the door & come without bias in order to communicate which is both talking but equally listening, we’ve all got to be prepared to change our mindsets”

“First gen farmers are more daring to have hard conversations & to really listen - they can be brave."

"For progress we need to think outside ag - and not just speak to ourselves." 

"When will people other than farmers step into the food system & support the much needed potential for farming to be the potent ecological change making piece it is . Farmers cannot be all the things, they are best to be the land stewards but others need to take up the roles of advocating, supply chain development, consumer education, policy change & story telling"

Links You'll Love
Claire Taylor Linked in

Nuffield Scholarship program

Loved this? Try these:
Gab Chan -  building political clout for ag

Helen Rebanks - in honor of the farmers wife

Support the Show
Casual Support - Buy Me A Coffee
Regular Support - Patreon
Buy the book - Futuresteading - Live Like tomorrow matters

Pod Partners Rock: Australian Medicinal Herbs  

Code for Discount: future5 

We talked about:

The politics of agriculture - overshadowed by a growing disconnect between politicians in the cities & farmers in the country 

Echo chambers are one of the biggest challenges in Ag. Its so important to look up & out to glean perspective on what's happening 

We need more patience and understanding in ag because there are deep cultural beliefs & values that will need to shift before practice change can occur

Why its time for farmers to build trust for those who are telling their stories & playing other roles in the food system so we can broaden the scope for support

Ripping the bandaid off & beginning a new life in another country.

Settling her body into a new landscape]

Learning how to say yes to invitations

Learning to be vulnerable with new families and friends

Asking a new friend on a date - you’ll have different friendships at differnt times 

The things we do for love - taken in by the boss’s girlfriend 

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