Composer Darren Korb

Episode 5

Composer Darren Korb shares stories from his life, including that time he was the National Champion of a popular, musically-based, interactive video game. Darren talks about becoming the composer and audio director for Supergiant Games, how the music he has written has tens of millions of plays on Spotify, and some of his thoughts on dessert for dinner.

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Audio Director, Composer, Sound Editing
NYU Gallatin School
Marry Me! Musical
http://www.marrymemusical.com/
Supergiant Games
https://www.supergiantgames.com/
Games:
Bastion
Transistor
Pyre
Hades
Games available on Steam and Epic Games store on PC
Cormac McCarthy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cormac_McCarthy
Ashley Barret
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BxELKRxbtA
Steve Albini 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Albini
Kumas Corner
https://kumascorner.com/#about
Control Group
https://controlgroup.bandcamp.com/
https://open.spotify.com/artist/7m1iuqViYQylu5e34s1F7q
Don’t Bean Me!
Rock Band Video Game
Cheese Blintz Casserole (Not Darlenes recipe just one I found for you)
https://www.thespruceeats.com/jewish-cheese-blintzes-recipe-1136318
Spindrift Sparkling Water
Karaoke
I Believe in a Thing Called Love by The Darkness
Weird Al White and Nerdy
I’ve Had the Time of my Life
Suddenly Seymour
https://open.spotify.com/album/5qapjxOPpKbqmpx5bgIHvh?highlight=spotify:track:1HF1pXuqgx4f6xUlO8NYIt
Little Shop of Horrors at the Music Box in Chicago
Tenacious D Post Apocalypto Tour
https://open.spotify.com/album/4O83oaztVuBlPDrp50Q3mh
Playlist
Louis Cole
https://open.spotify.com/artist/6uIst176jhzooPMetg2rtH?autoplay=true&v=A
Knower
https://open.spotify.com/artist/7fVp0A6oCMfiQJihMnY0SZ
Vulfpeck
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2_CJ_nx-l4
Nate Smith The Fearless Flyers
https://open.spotify.com/artist/1JyLSGXC3aWzjY6ZdxvIXh
Brittany Howard
https://open.spotify.com/artist/4XquDVA8pkg5Lx91No1JxB
Childish Gambino
https://open.spotify.com/artist/73sIBHcqh3Z3NyqHKZ7FOL

Transcript

spk_0:   0:01
today on What can you tell me? I speak with Darren Corp. Who share stories from his life. Including that time he was the national champion of a popular, musically based interactive video game. Darrin talks about becoming the composer an audio engineer for supergiant games. Of the music he has written has tens of millions of plays on Spotify and some of his thoughts on dessert for dinner. You feel like having some face time video looking at each other at the same time?

spk_1:   0:28
Why not? Yeah, there we

spk_0:   0:30
go. There we are. It's muted. Ah, sad to see the chops gone, man. Well, you know, it was

spk_1:   0:37
It is an era. It was an era. Came to a close. I mean, it may come back. I just

spk_0:   0:43
feel, you know, this is feeling a feeling a little change. It happened. That's the nice thing about the faces. It can always t go back. Yeah, you can have all this fun hair to play with, and we just have our faces to make you pay the price for our boredom. Yeah, that's good. Works for mill man. Well, thanks for being on the podcast. No problems. Let's get started. in the very beginning of the world of Darren Corp. Tell me about your youth, which I know some of but listener out there does not.

spk_1:   1:15
Yeah, jeez, I grew up in San Jose, California. I started doing musical theatre as a little kid. I was probably about five years old when I did my first musical. And what was it? Oh, gosh. It was like a I think it was with. It's like Kathie Olson production and she, like, write her own shows. And so it was like the fairy tale friends and Mrs Snodgrass or something like that. I don't know. You're just something something fun for kids, wasn't it? Wasn't like, you know, Les Miz or whatever it was like, you know, she was down the road, but ah, but and then I did some shows with S a C m t where we met for your brother, but very pretty there yet and ah and yeah, I mean and I sort of did plays like all through high school, basically, um and but But somewhere along the way I discovered music like playing music, performing and writing music, and and I was about probably 11 or So when I picked up the guitar and it's stuck with me and I about a year or two later, like formed a little band with my middle school buddies and we started playing music and writing songs and got really into playing rock music. And and in high school I discovered recording and multitrack recording, and I discovered I really had a passion for that, Um, and that that was like, you know, But you know something? Oh, this is something. I really am interested. I want to dive deeply into this. And I was also interested at the time in filmmaking and editing, and I did some of that just kind of for fun, mostly just because my brother did that. So I think that was part of part of why I was interesting, that stuff. But at some point, music recording sort of usurped my interest in acting and film to become like the thing I was like, Oh, this is the thing I want to dio I definitely want to something in music and and so, Yeah, I went to Ah, I want to know why you Gallatin for is an individualized program. So you kind of Do what you please and call it something. And you

spk_0:   3:24
have to create your own Yeah, degree. Sort of.

spk_1:   3:27
Yeah. Choose your own adventure, so to speak. And, uh and yeah. And then I stayed in New York for quite a while. After that, I interned in a recording studio for a couple of years. Introduction side or yet? Well, when you're interning at a recording studio, you're mostly on the, like, coffee making garbage dump outside. Perfect. But it is the production. Yeah, it's the production side of future in show biz kid. Every once in a while, an engineer will drop a crumb of knowledge on you for youto nibble up. But, uh, basically, it's ah, it's a very unglamorous I. I had a couple of cool encounters while I was there, and I you know, this guy, Adam Green, was recording a record in the studio. I was working at one time, and he, like I was trying to play guitar and sing on a tune, and they couldn't get the groove right With him. Playing and sing at the same time is like a intern. You play guitar, come and play on this dress. I got the planets. That was fine. You know, on

spk_0:   4:22
the monkey?

spk_1:   4:23
Yeah, does. It was good. I gotta play with, like, the drummer, Like Jeff wanted Jeff Buckley's drummers. And it was in that band and yeah, I was right. I like it was a cool experience, but for the most part, it was, like, pretty unglamorous work. And and, uh, and I learned a lot. And one of the things that I learned was that, um, the recordings, like every once in a while, I get the opportunity to record something in the studio, or I'd be present for a lot of recordings in studio and the conclusion. And then also at the same time, I was doing a lot of my home recordings just for my own stuff. What are you

spk_0:   4:58
doing? Kind of rock music are Or

spk_1:   5:00
song writing, just trying, you know, I mean, I was also I was writing a musical with my brother at the time and like recording demos for that and doing the last step.

spk_0:   5:07
Tell me about real briefly going to that, cause I totally remember hearing about it, and I never got to see it, but yeah, it ended so delightful. Oh,

spk_1:   5:15
yeah, it was fun. So my brother and I wrote a bird, a musical. It was based on a screenplay that he'd written that we've been converted into, like a musical play. It was about two best friends who are, you know, roommates and have been roommates since college. And the roommates in, like, this amazing apartment in New York that used to be belonged to one of the characters grandmothers. And, uh, the landlord says that one of them is, you know, is being guest for too long, and so they end up having to get married to keep the apartment, Um, and then also And then when one of them inherits a bunch of money, the other one won't give him a divorce, and all sorts of wackiness ensues. Hilarity ensues. Yes. Uh, well, so So I was recording that stuff, was recording other things. And why the conclusion I came to was that stuff that I recorded at home and could dedicate sort of infinite time and attention to turned out better, even with limited equipment and gear and everything. Then the recordings I would do in the studio just because you're on the clock and you don't really have You can't noodle him forever making perfect.

spk_0:   6:20
So people who aren't aware, like, what does ah, studio session cost when you're talking our earlier I mean and in New York, obviously different than others, But

spk_1:   6:28
it's it's a lot. I mean, it was like that kind of dingy studio. I was working. It was on that dingy was It was It was like a lower mead. The lower tier Manhattan studio it was was probably cost $1000 a day Or, you know something for like, a friend rate, you know, for me, I got

spk_0:   6:47
And how long would a project take it that at that rate,

spk_1:   6:50
I mean, you could you? That's the thing, right? It could be as fast as you want, but but But you deal with the faster it is the last time and attention you get to spend on every individual thing you're doing. So I you know, I did a thing with abandon mine where I was just in there for one day to track like a bunch of drum tracks. And we just like three takes every song. Go, go, go, go, go. You know, um, so we did, like, start relaxing. Yeah, very, very realizing. I mean, if you have infinite money at studio environments will be incredible. But but it's certainly certainly that's something I I do not and did not have a time. So yeah, it was always there was always, like, a layer of stress. I mean, I love recording studios. I love the gear I love, you know, being in space. That sounds great. And since I've had some really great experiences in recording studios, the main lesson I took away is that it gave me a lot of confidence to just do a lot of music production of my own. And that's sort of part of how I wound up doing what I do now I think, actually is because so now. So around this time, a buddy of mine who I had played in bands with for years, in middle school and through high school and college, all that, um, he was working in games. He was a game designer, a t a. L. A first job out of college. He worked there for a few years, and then he decided with some friends that he had made there to kind of strike out on their own, start their own independent game company and start making a game. And when that was happening, he reached out to me to see if I would be willing to do all of the audio for the game that they were making, and I didn't. I feel like I had any particular qualifications to do that. But, uh, he had belief in me, and that's why he asked me, I guess, Or it's because he's like, Well, if he doesn't do it right, we could get somebody else. I'm sure it's good, too, but But for whatever reason, I ended up doing that and that that game turned out to be like a a pretty good, pretty sizable hit eventually, and we're still I'm still doing that for them that were four games deep at this point. That was 10 years ago. Our game. What's the company? Yeah, that game was called Bastion and the company's called supergiant games and we've made transistor was our second game pyre was our third in our current game, which were like developing an early access right now is called Haiti's and yeah, it's just been an incredible total. There's like definitely a marker in my life of like all the stuff that happened before this period of my life and then this period of my life, it's like, too, you know? Yeah, it certainly changed. Changed my life for the better. And it's been it's been an incredible 10 years or so

spk_0:   9:25
well, and you got in the last year alone or over the last couple of years you've had something like a 1,000,000 downloads or plays on Spotify.

spk_1:   9:32
I had some some. It was a It was, ah, crazy number that I saw. What was it? I don't want to miss close like it was something insane. Like 61 million plays on Spotify last year. Something crazy like unreal. Yeah, I mean, I can't I don't know. Seems it must be Muslim. 15. 15 million. That's 61 seems a

spk_0:   9:54
1,000,000 even if it's the same person listening 100 times. That's still a hundreds of thousands of people who are the legitimately loving listening to your music over. Yeah, it's pretty crazy, you know, I gotta be honest. When I I stopped playing video games when it was still Nintendo Super Barrio, sort of super digital Bam, bam, bam Ba! And then over the years, just kind of all these big intense games were being built, and I was actually working probably well, relatively around the same time you started making music. I was working as a personal trainer and ah, registered dietitian at a gym, and one of my clients happen to be an orchestra conductor. And he liked looked the part classical orchestra, conductor, pony tail and everything. And I made a comment one day like, Oh, that's awesome. You know, you're an orchestra conductor, you have a ponytail and he said, Yeah, people make that comment a lot. I just like having a ponytail was like completely unrelated to him that but sure, he actually runs the orchestrated tour of final fantasy videogame Siri's also he invited me and my wife to that, and we had like sixth or seventh row orchestra seats to that, and hundreds of people showed up. Costumes that were so incredibly detailed was unbelievable. And the music, that's where I really the whole point of the story is that's where I realized how incredible the music is for some of these video games, like it is truly dozens of hours of orchestration, which I'm preaching to the choir by telling you. But I don't think the person who doesn't play video games these days realizes what video game music is like. Now, what can you tell me about that? Actually,

spk_1:   11:31
I mean, it's when I started making game music. You know, I have enjoyed. I've grown up playing video games. I love games, and I've been aware of gay music in that I receive it when I play games. But I never really listen to it much outside of games, Um, and there are some games that stuck with me for sure, but But it's not like my number one genre of music listening. But for a lot of people it is. And I discovered that once I started getting into games, you know, I was the game. The first game hadn't come out yet. Then we were. I was speaking with another composer of ah, a game that also hadn't come out yet, but he had released a few other games, and he's like em in. You got to release the soundtrack because that's the That's the thing, you know? You know, he told me that he had made more money by selling his soundtrack than he did for working on the game. Um, through through band camp, you know, and I was like, Wow, okay, that's noted. I'll do that. So we released Bastian and then, like instantly, we were planning on releasing the soundtrack at some point, you know, and then instantly like the day came out. Okay, how can I get the soundtrack? Where's this? Actually so we like, rushed like a week later, we started the soundtrack production. I wrote like another tune for the sound track, just to have an extra little bonus on there and and, um, and we rushed into production and we, like, did CD preorders. And we were doing a run in 2000 CDs and ah, that sold out like right away. And so we like ordered another 2000 CDs, and that sold out right away. So So my buddy Logan and I, who worked on the game with me, were just like sitting in my Brooklyn apartment filled with like mailers, just like shipping manually shipping CDs for like we

spk_0:   13:13
one by one,

spk_1:   13:14
one by one just cause way. You know, I like printed. Lila downloaded like a template for print labeled, but it was just like it was great. I mean, it was insane. And so I didn't. It was it was sort of right then that I realized, like, Oh, man, this is This is this very much is a community that that exists and and his ravenous first stuff. And it was really enthusiastic about some people who

spk_0:   13:39
don't realize necessarily how how artistry works or, you know, you hear a song on the radio. You think that the singer is making all the money. It's actually the writer who makes the majority of money correct.

spk_1:   13:50
I think it depends. I mean the writer. There are a few different types of royalties generated from that kind of a thing. There's like mechanical royalties, which are for whoever owns the master, basically like a record company or whoever paid for the recording. And then there are They're the sort of songwriter royalties which go to the writer and publishing publisher in sort of equal measure. And so yeah, so So So if the singer yeah, often the singer will not own own the master. So So if somebody has a deal with a major label, though they'll get like 10% of whatever the wreck company guess or something after the record company recoups all their costs for making the record, you know, for

spk_0:   14:32
sure. And like you mentioned when a low in studios $1000 a day, there's certainly some exorbitant costs when you figure it's not just two days to record an album. Yeah, yeah, and so that you guys are now sending out hundreds or thousands of CDs to people and realizing this is pretty awesome. Great with this and you get your music out there and the game itself, you know, talk a little about what the game is like. What is it? You know, for somebody who doesn't play that game or any game, What, you know, what is one kind of sea? And how does the music kind of narrate it, so to speak?

spk_1:   15:03
Sure, So that you have that first game was, um, it's sort of a post apocalyptic fantasy where you know, we'll sort of 11 early kind of high level phrase that we used for for kind of defining the direction of the game was what if Cormack McCarthy made a fantasy videogame. And so we had this grisly, like, sort of western narrator that my friend Logan play looking, coming in, played and, uh, who's almost, you know, it's like I kind of like almost the Big Lebowski. Narrator Sam Elliot A little bit, you know, um, just kind of narrating the story of what's happening in the game to you in real time. Like as your character does something he'll say. And then the kid, you know, did this and, you know, and sort of telling the story as it's happening, like based on what you're doing also, So it's sort of reactive in that way. And that was something that that I think people were really attracted to in that first game and thegame genre is sort of like an action roleplaying game. So, uh, you know, you have a character that you can improve and sort of level up over time, which is a some of the role playing stuff, part of it. And then, you know, it's it's actually so it's, you know, direct input, and you're tryingto smash enemies and dodge out of the way before they hit you back and all that stuff and all sorts of different weapons and things they can get throughout the game. And it's sort of a two D hand painted visuals, as from an isometric perspective that it takes place on these sort of floating islands in the sky. And as you walk the island, sort of foreign themselves underneath your feet as you go s o. There the other. There are a few things in the game that I think people people hadn't really seen before, some some ideas that were that we tried out that we're sort of new, I think, and people really responded to a lot of that stuff. I think that that made us stand out.

spk_0:   16:59
And so when when the game's being developed, is it something that they kind of give you? Ah, storyboards, sketch of This is what we're looking at and then you start to present some ideas for music. How does that How does that aspect work?

spk_1:   17:10
Well, I got in really early on that project and have been there on team since then. You know, from the beginning of each project so which I think is different from how a lot of composers do it or the lot. Most composers are sort of contractor contract ID, often later in a project once it kind of already exists. But so I started writing the beginning, and and we would I would have sort of high level ideas explained to me like, what if Cormack McCarthy made a fantasy video again, and then I'd go off and be like Okay, well, I'm just trying make a piece of music about the based on that. Yeah. And the music that I ended up making for that game. You know, I didn't I didn't come from a composer background, you know, I came from a song writing background, so I just sort of used whatever tools I had. I didn't I didn't have any training about how to make leitmotifs and have recurrent recurring musical themes. And also the stuff that, like composers air taught. So I was just like, Okay, we'll just make songs, you know, song, structure, things. And ah, and what I did was I I decided to come up with, like, a genre for myself to try to unify the music of the game so that no matter what I did, as long as it sort of fell within this genre, it would feel like it was part of the same piece, creatively speaking. And so I came up with acoustic frontier trip hop. It's what I ended up making for that game, Um, with sort of like sampled drums and trip poppy sort of percussion and, ah, a lot of down tuned like bluesy acoustic guitar frontiers e. And then a bunch of sort of exotic instruments or sort of eastern, I should say instruments exotic to a Westerner, I suppose. T sort of put the put it in, like, a different place. Um,

spk_0:   19:03
and and these aren't all digital instruments. You play a number of instruments, correct?

spk_1:   19:07
Yes. Absolutely. I would say it was about 1/3 you know, kind of even least split between loop samples, software instruments and me actually playing stuff.

spk_0:   19:19
Okay. And what are some of the instruments you play?

spk_1:   19:21
Yeah, on there. I played on that soundtrack. I played guitar, bass, acoustic and electric guitar and bass. A ukulele. First visit. I think that's all the physical instruments I play on that central.

spk_0:   19:35
But in general, what else do you play?

spk_1:   19:37
I kind of play whatever I play like mandolin. and, you know, banjo and whatever. What? I just pick up, pick up instruments for each game and sort of try to make some sounds on them and compose on instruments that I don't particularly know how to play.

spk_0:   19:52
Yeah, stringed instruments. Tree obviously accomplished at

spk_1:   19:56
Yeah, mostly anything. Anything that sort of shaped like a guitar, More or less. I can play and make some sounds on and and it's I really enjoy picking up an instrument. I don't really I don't know the cord shapes I don't know, like I don't have the tuning committed to my muscle memory or anything. And so I can just sort of, you know, experiment and listen and see how that goes. And I really like composing that way.

spk_0:   20:16
Another I would you play piano? Other things like that. I mean, not with what's the list I play

spk_1:   20:21
enough piano Thio enter midi stuff. I'm tryingto get better at it. My plan, you know, touch of piano drums. Actually, a lot more drums lately. I got in the last couple of games, I got no electronic drum set, and I've been able to, like play that it input the drum performance and stuff, and that's when that's when it's fine. And, um, I play cash. I mean, I sing and I ended up, you know, I have, I have, actually. So I do have songs in each of the games that I myself will saying or I have ah, female singer that I work with a lot. I don't know if you know her. Actually, she did a lot of shows that CMT actually bear it.

spk_0:   21:00
I remember her name, but yeah, and I've listened Thio the music so obviously have heard her voice, But I feel like there was Ah, you guys, you're what, 36 37.

spk_1:   21:08
I'm 36. Yeah, yeah, she's 35. Yeah,

spk_0:   21:12
OK, yeah, And so I'm 42. So for those who don't know, Santa's A Children's Musical Theater, which is where we met as kids, is as an absolutely incredible Children's theater that in the Bay Area San Jose, California just brings in truly like world class choreographers, set designers things like that with a guy who did set design on Broadway for years, and he would use of all things. You look at it from the stage where the audience I'll say and you see this gorgeous set and you find out later it's literally built with one by twos and cardboard. Or as he called it corrugated. He corrected me. It's corrugated, it's not. But it's sheets of corrugated cardboard that are 10 feet by 15 feet. And he would do this incredible painting on it. And then choreographers like Charlie McGowan has in the movie chorus line. Um, and it and it's just the people we got to experience were incredible. So it's one of those places, though. Where if you because of the age difference, is, you know, kind of four or five years of age difference, you may have not really have ever kind of known somebody. Or if you did, it's like, Oh, I was 16 and you were nine. So we actually had the music man when I was just like a chorus person in Music Man. But your brother Dan was was Harold Hill. That's the lead character is manage. You were, Ah, Tommy Djilas, Winthrop Winthrop. You were winning. Okay, wait. Winthrop's the little kid, right?

spk_1:   22:31
Winthrop's a little kid. Yeah,

spk_0:   22:32
Wait, Who's Tommy? Then? Tommy's

spk_1:   22:34
Lovett? Nature love, Interest of the Mayor's

spk_0:   22:37
Don't the funny thing. And you have the song Gary, Indiana, right

spk_1:   22:41
that I get that

spk_0:   22:42
and I live about 30 minutes from Gary, Indiana. Let me tell you, it's not necessarily a place that needs a song like that written about it, but a little different than you would have shot you

spk_1:   22:53
in the 19 offs or whatever the hell it was. It was really nice small

spk_0:   22:57
towns when 76 trombones would make sense. But yeah, And so there were a lot of people who were just that, you know, like Ashley, you know, 67 years younger than me, just didn't get the opportunity to really interact with. So, you know, her background, Obviously a professional vocalist.

spk_1:   23:12
She You know, she by day does PR, actually, and once she would like to be able to do music full time, but but, you know, hasn't made the leap. But now she's incredible. And, you know, we we just did a series of, like performance that we did. We did want it in Boston several weeks back, where we performed like with an orchestra. For it was a 13 piece chamber orchestra with the conductor who's also a game composer. Austin Winter is his name. He's incredible and and for like, 3000 people. And then we did that again and said, You know, previously in September in Seattle like the same kind of deal. And yeah, I was incredible. We did it. We did a show in London. We didn't acoustic show in London, just two of us that was insane with, like, kind of short notice. And like in a little room like 400 people showed up for something that was incredible. Um,

spk_0:   24:06
that's 400 people in London who know who you are and want that. That's amazing.

spk_1:   24:10
Yeah, it was not so Yeah, she's She's awesome. And we've done some crazy some crazy stuff. Yeah, yeah,

spk_0:   24:18
and we'll include links. Tow the music for you, for sure, so that people can hear what you've got going on. What? You've been right with her, and then when you're not doing music for the video games, what's your what else are you working on? You mentioned voice over and doing a lot of sound editing? Or is it you actually doing the voice work as well?

spk_1:   24:33
So in the newest game, I do voice a couple of characters and I did a little bit in the previous game. But before that, I didn't do divorce work. Really. It was mostly just logon Cunningham on the 1st 2 projects. And then we've sort of expanded our voice cast in the last couple of games. But I'm the audio director. So I do all of the voiceover direction. All of the or the majority of vast majority of the sound design and implementation of the sound effects. And I write and all music and stuff so so and mixed the game and all that. So I'm I'm busy. When I'm not doing music. I'm doing one of those two other other things. Yeah,

spk_0:   25:10
and so this is full time for for the company. Yeah, that's awesome. And that's been now 10 years. You've been working on this? Yeah. And so you were in New York until what? Two years ago?

spk_1:   25:21
I moved back in at the very end of 2014. In December.

spk_0:   25:25
Wow. It's been that long? Yeah, it's been It's been a while. I'm fly us. Well, then you were in Chicago two years ago. They were rewarding with your band.

spk_1:   25:35
It was like the end 2017. It was a little over two years ago. Yeah, I was like, September 2017 I think, Yeah, we recorded in Steve Albini. He's, uh, studio in Chicago, which is so much fun to hear that guy's incredible. And for those who may not know Steve Albini as he's like this legendary recording engineer who recorded Nirvana Pixies Ah, you know, breeders page and plant like he's recorded like he's worked with just about everybody. And he had, like, a vory naturalistic sound. It's like a really very distinct sound that he has. And, Ah, and yeah, he's a He's a cool dude.

spk_0:   26:16
That's great. And he's in Chicago, like, right off of ah kind of Belmont in Sacramento, right?

spk_1:   26:21
Yeah, he's in Chicago in the right near that where I met you, right? That that Burger Place and Koumas? Yeah, that's good. Burger. Still dreaming about so good. Uh, but he's Yeah, he's based right there in his studio is incredible. And, you know, I went Is this my sort of fun side project band that I was with, You know, that I played with when I lived in Brooklyn. Um, and we just learned about the fact that you could go and just record with Steve Albini. If you just book a studio on the Internet, he's not. He'll take anyone. He's up. You know, it's like if you will pay him hell for cardio, you know, And, uh and And we was like, Hey, guys, we should just do this one weekend. So we went in there for a weekend. They have dorms in the studio that you can sleep in. So you stay at the studio. It was like rock and roll sleepaway camp was wonderful. We'd like record with Steve from 10 to 10. We go have dinner afterwards, and then we come back and, like, work on lyrics and guitar sounds for the next day. And we did, you know, until, like, 2 a.m. And then we go to sleep and do it all over again. It was incredible.

spk_0:   27:24
That's so exciting. No. And so is that band still happening? Are just

spk_1:   27:28
Yeah, yes, in the background. We're you know, we're working on a record that we reported tracks for like, you know, years ago, like in 2014 records and a bunch of drum tracks. And we're trying finally trying all have timeto t to wrap it up and just make a proper record out of it. So so, Yeah, it'll be fun to finish that. Finally.

spk_0:   27:47
What's the what's the band's name? Control group Group? Yeah. Very cool. Okay, so you got control group, you got the band. You got the full time job. You're a full time musical director, audio engineer. You're doing voiceover. Um, is a lot of this out of your home studio is a lot of this at the video game studio. Like, you know, talk about that a little.

spk_1:   28:09
So when I was in New York, I was fully from my apartment. When I moved out to California, I started working in the office, like, four days a week, and we have a vocal booth in the office. So most of our recording stuff happens in the office. Although until very recently, when we're now all working from home all the time, Um, I am doing everything from home.

spk_0:   28:31
Yeah, and a vocal booth for those who aren't aware is roughly the size of a phone booth. Maybe a little bit. And for phone booths are those for those of the O ah phone booth or slightly larger, and it's filled with foam padding. So you don't have any sound bouncing off of walls or anything to get a nice, clean recording you want you want a dense back around. So a clause It's actually a great place to record, right?

spk_1:   28:55
Yeah. Yes. And that's that's how we do a lot of my recording of my old and my old spot was in sort of partially in a closet. Glamorous. Yeah.

spk_0:   29:04
Cool event. So you got your family out in California now? Yeah. Yeah, Alright. Eso wife, kid kids. How many?

spk_1:   29:10
Just the one kid toe wearing one kid. Yeah. Yeah, we, uh yeah, it's good. It's We moved out here partially to kind of be closer to my family where I grew up, and and I've got, you know, one brother who lives out here with his family and my parents were still out here, and her family's up up in Seattle. Okay, so So we're sort of closer to, uh Where'd you guys meet? We met in New York. Okay? Yeah, she she we sort of like her. And Dan had a mutual friend. And that's how that's how we met. Actually, she What? She went to Santa Clara. So she had a bunch of Santa Clara friends. Um, like Dan did. Yes.

spk_0:   29:47
Yeah. I didn't realize Dan went to Santa Clara. He

spk_1:   29:50
didn't, but he had a lot of Santa Clara

spk_0:   29:52
friends. I was gonna say like, No, I didn't remember that. He was just

spk_1:   29:55
living here at the time that people our age were in college. Buddy Doug Santana was in the one in Santa Clara and a lot of his friends went there. So So he kind of hung out with a lot of those people

spk_0:   30:07
and dance and jersey. Still doing editing film editor s. So you guys is as kids. I remember your don't beam me video. Dan would I don't know if you were a willing participant in half of these or forced to participate half the time, but I said it was a ham. That was such fun videos. Yeah, that was fun. Yeah, I I remember one of his early stories about Ah, he was really hoping when you were a small child learning to speak that he was going to teach you a made up version of English where you still used English words But if you had to say, I'm gonna go pee. You He was gonna teach you to say I have to go water the banana patch. That is what I so explicitly remember that spiteful. Yeah, I actually just found a photo from probably 1996 when I went for ah, for Passover to his apartment in New York. When he lived in that, Did you ever get to visit this place? That was the old Barnum. Uh, where are not? How's the pizza and start over?

spk_1:   31:05
Yeah, it was incredible. I was like, Are you really lived in, like, a little loft and then art Galleria? And

spk_0:   31:11
there was, like, a swing hanging off of the ceiling. And some woman who painted with menstrual blood are truly artistic, but yeah, I found a photo the other day of actually you mentioned Doug Santana, Dan and Doug Santana. Ah, doing a karate chop with a forehead of a ah, monster cracker. Very, very exciting. So perfect at the moment. I remember from my life. Yeah, all right. And then the next game you guys were working on Wednesday gonna be coming out Well, so

spk_1:   31:40
it's in early access, right? now meaning people for early access for people who don't know it is. You can buy the game knowing that there will be more work continuing to be done on the game will be updated and eventually will be sort of finished and be properly out at a later time. But but that's become a thing over the last. I would say 10 years where people are sort of. It's sort of like it's not quite beta testing, but it is. It's similar because you are gathering sort of information and feedback from the people who are playing the game to help improve it and make it as good as possible for when you eventually really sit in one point. Oh, um, so, yeah, that's what we're doing. It's available on right now on steam and the epic game store on PC, and eventually we hope to release it in one point. Oh, sometime later this year. And it'll be on sort of every or or more platforms at that time.

spk_0:   32:34
Hopefully and our end of these Ah, for those that using the apple world, I feel like steam really works extraordinarily well on Windows computers. I dress playing. I forgot what I tried playing on steam at one point a couple years ago with my buddy and I was like, No, my Mac hates this system.

spk_1:   32:50
Yeah, no, If I found the same, I've been a Mac guy forever. And eventually, once I started doing this stuff, like getting into games and really tryingto play games more seriously for peace. I was never like a PC gamer. Dude by has played some, but but I just I just bought a PC because it's just it's just playing games on Mac is such a heartbreak. It's like I have this, like incredible, expensive Mac I just to be able to do anything in the world. And it just like I think, in general, the graphics cards on Max or, like not as not as fully fully powered is

spk_0:   33:23
weird because so many people in the film and and editing industry use Max like, How is it that it's good for that but not going these games? I don't

spk_1:   33:33
I don't know. I have no idea. And I think and again, I think it's such a smaller market share that games are just not developed for Mac. Ever there, always a port. So they're always developed for something else and then ported to Mac. So it's probably probably just the optimization is not there a CZ? Well, yeah, is my guess, but because it's such such a small market share of people who buy and play games on Max. Yeah, that that that that you the data doesn't really make it make any sense for a developer to go on target that as their primary platform, you know?

spk_0:   34:06
Yeah, I think the only time I ever had a Windows computer was when roommate of mine had one and I started playing some games with him. But really, that was it. And I really quickly switched back to Mac, having grown up in the Bay Area where my grade school was actually about 100 yards across the street from Apple Computer. And I just assumed Apple was in 1987. That was the local hometown computer company. I didn't I, you know, And who could have seen that I had I invested? I think if you'd invested like $1000 an apple in 1987 in its I P o. It's worth like $350,000 Thio said. I could have just had a few grand in there. Yeah, living a different mindset. Yes, sure, yeah, but every one of those there's the 1000 that aren't Yeah, cool. And then when this game's all over, there's, I assume, another game of the worst. I mean, it's kind of Ah, never ending. Finished one work on the next.

spk_1:   35:00
Yeah. I mean, I think this game is a little bit different from our previous games and that those were all sort of self contained kind of tight narrative experiences where you play them for maybe, you know, eight hours or something, or 6 to 12 hours, and you and you'd finish this main story of the game. And if you wanted to, you could play it again with some slightly different ah gameplay stuff. But the story was present very much the same way. Where is this game? We've approached in a way that we had never approached any of our other games before. Where is this one? You can play for sort of hundreds of hours because of the way thegame is designed. It's sort of it's a rogue like is the sort of broad genre that this one falls into, which means there are elements that are procedurally generated of the game every time you play. So it's different every time you play. And you played

spk_0:   35:51
really like a choose your own adventure that just keeps going in different directions.

spk_1:   35:55
And yes, and and you play sort of until you die and then you start over, and that's sort of so but you, But you have progress that you that you retain from run to run and what we've done, which I think has not been invested in quite as heavily in in any room like that I've seen is we've really invested a lot in a story that sort of unfolds a little bit during the runs and in between the runs there's, there's a sort of home base where you go back to, and there's all these characters you can speak with. An advance the story and find out more about you know your relationships. All these characters and the game is called Haiti's You Play is the son of Haiti's Zacharias trying to escape the underworld and find your mother er, and because your dad's a jerk and you've never met your mom. and it Really? Yeah, hell, yeah. Exactly. Your dad is Haiti's knees. Yeah, he's He's not the nicest dude. So So So, yeah, you and the story, the way it unfolds. I mean, there's like, you can play the game for sort of hundreds of hours and not have repeated conversations. The game is fully voice acted, and and there's just like tons and tons of conversation. I mean, just the main character alone II voice. Ah, sangria ce. And he has, I think, like 6000 lines or something at this point and then and that's just ham. And then there's a bunch of sort of side characters. I'll have, like, 2 300 lines And then, you know, Haiti's has, I don't know, a couple 1000 lines or something. 1000 lines at this point. And so there's like, Yeah, there's over 10,000 lines in the game. Well, well, over So

spk_0:   37:31
a bit different from the Nintendo ice hockey I used to play, that's for sure.

spk_1:   37:34
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So So anyway, this one is is ah s O to get back to what you're saying We may not move on from this one right away. once it's done, we may just keep working on it because this is a game that has, like, a community sort of invested in playing it sort of on a regular basis, which we've never had before on any of our other. Because of

spk_0:   37:56
the platform, like steam and things like that. It is a thing where you're not buying a disc, you're you're logging onto a server that allows you to play it so you guys can truly keep it updating forever. And not to say nobody knows the difference, that they know that they're getting something that's gonna constantly evolve. So

spk_1:   38:12
yeah, and that's part of it. Yeah, that's what I think. Part of the appeal of getting in on something in early access is you want to see how it develops over time and how it changes. And yes, so people download the game and yeah, I mean, they will just sort of push updates as as they come on. People just download the updates and install them and and yeah, it's Ah, it's Yeah, we've actually all of our games have been downloadable games. Primarily, um, we've done a couple of things where 1st 2 games have gotten, like limited edition physical releases just for people who want a little physical thing. But but But for the most part, they've all been eligible.

spk_0:   38:51
Yeah, it's it's interesting. It really is like a book that keeps writing itself or that you just keep adding chapters to. So ah, those are the things that make me want to get more into playing video games. It's games like this where just goes, Yeah, because the ones I used to play as a kid, you'd get to a certain point. You know? I mean, even Mike Tyson's punch out, you know, get to Mike Tyson. And once you beat Mike Tyson, if you are ever the guy who could do that, I don't believe it happens. Yeah, huh. You know, you're done with the game, so to speak. So how much fun is it to play the same thing? It is a completely different world from what it was in the eighties and nineties, for sure. Absolutely. Yeah, and with processing power of computers now, it's It's even more insane with the graphics and the music, and everything is it's, I think it's an exciting alternate universe, one of the things I always felt about the especially the video game music. Once I kind of listen to the final fantasy stuff and started listening to some of the stuff you write is I really want to figure out a way to just have a narration of this. That kind of reads my brain as I go through my day. So I have the same music narrating what my day is like. So I'm in a bad mood, it knows, and I get some ominous sound in the background. Um, a question my wife asked me. She does. She has these questions. I don't know what she got him off of, but it's kind of a would you rather types in area. And one of them was Would you rather have to dance to music every time you heard it? Or would you rather have to sing to any song that you heard? And it kind of to me, I feel like it's like a little bit of both, because growing up in musical theater, I I loved the concept of just, you know, life turns into a narrated song. Yeah, no, I feel like you get to create this for the world, and I I want you. Ah, I want you to be like Randy Newman on Family Guy. Just narrating my day with music and sounds. That one. Yeah, that's a great, great bit. Good times. Good times. Okay. And so then life with the kid and life with the wife. What? Ah, what do you do when you're not Mr Music and Audio

spk_1:   40:50
Director? Yeah, just, you know, hanging with the family. Mostly I I, um I you know, I'd liketo have some more time for hobbies, but I don't don't have a ton ton of that time these days. I still try to play some video games. When when the kids asleep. And he's he's six. He's old enough now that we're, like playing some stuff together. We've been playing a little bit animal crossing, and he's been planned Smash brothers with his cousin, you know, on the internet. So that's been fun. Um, but yeah, for the most part, you know, hanging with the kid, doing stuff of the family. That's what I'm up to these days. I'm trying. If you'd love to have more time to have a band that I play with or something regularly, but But yeah, it's been It's been, uh, hard to find the time these

spk_0:   41:35
days, So sure. And certainly right now there's not even know what You're not gonna get out and do it. Theo. Backstreet boys recorded from your mansion individually, which I love. I don't know if you saw that watching five. You know, I I don't want to call them. Has been is they were certainly more popular at ah, prior date. Approximately, you know, But it's insane to just see these guys rolling around in their little mansion. You know, I think we all just need a couple $1,000,000 to be in our bank account. So we live our best version of ourselves. Sure. When I get there, I'll share it with you. How about that? Yeah, Sounds great. And then you will legitimately, I will be like Dan, write my music. Follow me around. That would be delightful. Yeah, Cool. Ah, anything else? You feel like you haven't gotten to talk about that? You want to talk about anything? You've been working on side projects. I mean, you know, you mentioned the band, do you? You're obviously very busy with work. Is there anything else that's going on in life?

spk_1:   42:33
Gosh, Um, yeah, it's been it's been fully consumed with between the work and the family stuff. I think that's those were the highlights. I'm working, you know, I'm working on that control group album kind of in the background when I when I have a second, um, you know, something that I forgot to mention, which we just sort of relevant to? This whole thing, I guess, is that I I love the video game. Siri's rock band. Okay, where were they? Were you not? What is it? It's like, Did you ever hear about Guitar Hero?

spk_0:   43:02
Oh, yeah. No. Sorry. Yes, I know exactly what you talking about. I think then no,

spk_1:   43:07
no, that's it. It's the It's rock band is the sort of the sort of one, the 1st 1 that did the full band thing developed by his company called Harmonics, which I was a big fan of, and I from the 1st 2 guitar heroes followed harmonics there and was a big big fan and left playing rapping and and in 2010 I participated in there like National Rock Band Championship and my right hand and one that so we won the National Rock Band championship in 2010. That's hilarious. It was wonderful, and we got, like, the big novelty check and we got to meet Ringo. Starr was like a big deal. It was The Nationals is in Atlantic City. Yeah,

spk_0:   43:48
it was. It was super. You are actually the second person I know who's been a national champion of a video. That's so funny. One of Emily's good friends from like a family friend. The guy ended up winning, and it's probably seven or eight years ago, but he ended up winning Big Buck Hunter. Yeah, amazing. Wow! And this was something like a big, big amount of money, and I feel like it was like a 15 to 30,000 rand prize. Which would you think this game costs $3 a play. It probably just barely paid for what he spent place. But he was Ah, he was flown. I don't wanna say flying. I believe they would fly him into Chicago or wherever the championships were every year because he had been a previous winner. And as long as he qualified up base point, I guess. But yeah, that's Wow. Who knew video game championships?

spk_1:   44:38
Yeah, and that was That was that happened in 2010 while I was working on Bastion, but before it had come out. So it was the first thing that I did where I could say to my parents, like, See, I wasn't wasting my time. See? You know Ah, And, uh, that

spk_0:   44:59
speaking of your parents Ah, one of the delightful things about your family, um is the ah, the initials do do tell.

spk_1:   45:06
Yeah. So everybody in my family is d K. Everybody got a David, Darlene, Damon, Daniel and dare and all the names in our family, and it's real ridiculous.

spk_0:   45:16
Did any of you guys continue that or No, I know. You're like No God, no. None of that, is it? No, no, I remember you guys go ahead.

spk_1:   45:26
Favorite handsome obliteration in some of his kids. Not all of them. But they got they got, like like they, like, see, hardened C. Sounds like Okay, like, yeah, but but, uh but no.

spk_0:   45:39
There are always the names when people have, like, a bunch of normal names. And then one weird. No offense to a kid with a weird name. And we're just, you know, when you're the one kid in the family whose name is nothing like anyone else's. It's like, what What Mom and Dad do there?

spk_1:   45:53
They almost they were gonna name me something different on then. My brother's convinced them that it wouldn't be fair if I was the only one with a name that didn't start with ideas. Like, We gotta do it. You committed. You named us.

spk_0:   46:04
You did it with your number three, right? Yeah.

spk_1:   46:07
I was the last one. And I was much later, too. I was like, my oldest brother is 15 years older than me. And then the next one is 10 years older than me. So, So tender. Almost 11. But tell us, Surprise. A surprise. Yes.

spk_0:   46:21
Happy accident. Is that what? Did they ever cop to that one, or did they really want to get it? And, you know, it was

spk_1:   46:28
like, Yeah, they were trying. They decided to try again. I mean, they were, like, sort of 40 when I was born here. Like it the right at the kind of cusp.

spk_0:   46:37
Oh, they were super young. I mean, I'm still 42 with no Children. and a dozen animals in my house. Yeah, but no Children. And so if I was gonna have a kid, I'd be starting two years older than your parents.

spk_1:   46:49
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And and so they know they were still. I mean, they had their first kid at 25 or whatever. So they were, um yeah, it was They weren't like it wasn't an accident, but But there was definitely, like, a quite a gap. Yeah. Fresher.

spk_0:   47:02
Yeah, Well, no. I guess we know when you're talking 40. That's you know, I like I said, I am so much. Not so much older. I was actually born and my dad was 39. So I'm used to having older parents as well, Like a kid in grade school complained when I know my dad sold, he just turned 40. And this is when he's, like, 13 years old. Dude, my dad's like, 52 right now, and that bothers me. It was just you know, you have no idea of how you know the age relative to it is. And some of my friends, I some of the guys I work with, I could legitimately be their parents. Ah, one of my first partners on the on the job. Ah is a guy who is 19 years younger than me. So I graduated high school, and a year later, he was born. Yeah. And I realized, Yeah, I could absolutely just legitimately be your father.

spk_1:   47:50
That's that's amazing. We talked briefly when I was in Chicago a couple years back. You were about to start on the force. Uh huh. And you were hoping to be a bicycle cop? Did you get to your bicycle cop gig?

spk_0:   48:03
Yeah. No, I'm actually. So I'm in Wrigleyville, uh, in in the 19 district, Lincoln Park, Lakeview, Uptown Wrigleyville Boys Town, Roscoe Village, North Center, sort of neighborhood. So, uh, just basically around, um, the truly like Wrigley Field is kind of the middle, so to speak, of our district. And coincidentally, we have our own bike team up there and we have so many bikes because we're also along the lakefront way, have a lakefront detail that comes in the summer. So we have about 20 full time by cops year round on, then another 15 to 20 who joined our team for the summer. So because of that, they're like man. You guys have 40 bikes up there. We also need a bike mechanic. So guess who got to become the bike mechanic for my district as well. Is that you? That's me said that I got you know, I got to go through a certification to be a bike mechanic, which I appreciate. They let me do. But it was also one of those things where I told him I've been doing this for 20 years. Already working on bikes. I've got all these tools in my garage already. But, you know, part of it was a liability issue. They have to make sure they've trained you exactly the way they want, because it's not just simply Oh, you know, I forgot Thio. You know, it's not like you're cleaning something. And, like, I forgot to wipe down this tube, it's like, No, I might put your brakes on wrong and

spk_1:   49:18
you have no brakes and you're facing

spk_0:   49:19
a guy and you crashed into a car. No, not something you wanna have yet, but yes. Oh, I'm on bikes and one of the things we get to do too, actually, because we're on the lakefront is we have a T V s. So we have four wheelers that we patrol. The beach front was so totally like the movie Police academy ways like, Well, not it. Not at all. Like the movie. Let me be very clear about that. But it always reminds me of it. Because I get to ride around on our helmets we wear are legitimately They're a riot. Helmets slash Ah, the helmet you can wear for writing a TVs. And it is no exaggeration like that. It looks like that helmet that Ah, Ponch and Jon War on chips and the raisins. And I'm pretty sure this design hasn't been updated since the eighties. But it's this, like, powder blue color, and I just I totally feel like I'm in a great eighties. Ah, Epics com movie when I'm three. Only kind of bummer. Part about that is you're you're the guy who has to go up and down the beaches and tell people two stop doing something that's fun. Like drinking on the beach. Yeah, well, eh, so I have to be the bummer. Police. Yeah, kind of like Hey, guys, just, you know, let's follow the law. That's why we have laws for a reason because people get drunk and then they throw bottles at each other and fights aren't good with glass on beaches and Children's, uh So yeah, but yeah, bye, cop. And ah, it's It's been a whole lot of fun. And we were supposed to start. Actually, Monday was supposed to be opening day at Wrigley Field at Wrigley Field, and so this would have been the start of our super busy season. And obviously with no baseball happening for months, too, who knows? It's certainly changed what my spring looks like. So,

spk_1:   50:55
yeah, she sent Makes sense.

spk_0:   50:57
Yeah, but it's been fun, you know, as weird as it sounds. Ah, lot of my previous life performing skills have been super useful on the job and such as being a bicyclist. Yeah, and I totally got to do it. So it's been a lot of fun.

spk_1:   51:14
That's really cool. And and now are you Are you on? I assume you're on standard some sort of standard issue police bicycle. Not like a crazy fixed gear like

spk_0:   51:24
my circus bike ride around the three tune wheelie. And actually, I wanna I wanna kind of convert mine myself like to look like it. Yeah, we actually use treks. It's a 27 speed trek. Um, great. Great bike. It really is nice. It's we don't want you add on the light bars and all the bag with all of your equipment and ah, necessary snacks and year etcetera, etcetera that it becomes a £50 bike. But, um, it's ah, great bike and actually fairly straightforward to to fix, so to speak, not a whole lot of issues. It really is a lot of tires and brakes that you go through. We we actually, the other day it was just absolutely gorgeous. Out way probably road for about eight hours, and it was kind of one of our first days of the decent weather to be on for that long. Yeah, we ride these seats that it looks like, Ah, see, it isn't actually like a typical bike seat, literally the letter C o. And it's called a touring saddle. And so it doesn't have that knows that Stick out in. The idea is that there's not as much to rub on, ah, and and give you saddle sores and chafing And what and when you first see it, you're like this has to be the most uncomfortable thing ever. It's actually a shockingly comfortable bike seat. That's great. Eso But we're riding that for eight hours without having been on it regularly in the recent past. Was was a wake up call from my right rear carriage, so yeah, yeah, but yeah, it's Ah, it's been fun. I definitely have been enjoying my job. That's awesome. And then, you know, it started this. Ah, Couple months ago, I started the podcast, and it's been a really enjoyable creative outlet. So getting getting, getting that I kind of need filled for myself.

spk_1:   53:00
Yeah, that's great.

spk_0:   53:01
Maybe you'll become a part time cop in your spare time.

spk_1:   53:04
Yeah, maybe e don't have a lot of spare time. They have someone if they if they need a Coppola has, like, two hours a week. Perfect. Hire you? Yeah, I'm not. You know, I'm like I could ride a bike, but I I I learned to bite right about when I was like, 11. I'm not great on a bike. I'm fine. But

spk_0:   53:21
they do say it is like riding a bike for a reason. You get back on it. You're like, OK, we did actually have a very intense Ah, learn you had to go through obstacle courses and stuff actually fail you if you, you know, hit too many cones and you think about it like this is lame. Why would have to do this? Because a lot of time we're doing this in big, big crowds. Yeah, and you don't want to be running people over. I mean, so yeah. So it actually was for the reasoning of Don't want you two to run into anyone. Yeah. Ah, couple questions I'd like to ask people as we as we as we get towards the end here. Um uh, What was one of your favorite foods when you were a kid? Favorite meal, favorite food.

spk_1:   54:00
My mom, I think he didn't have a good understanding of, like, nutrition and, like, what was a meal. And so she would make this thing that she called blintz Casserole. Huh? Which is not a dinner food. It's like a desert. It's like it's like a bunch of black blintzes, you know, like sweet cheese wrapped in crepes with and then they're like a bunch of eggs and like making a casserole.

spk_0:   54:23
This is what good Jewish mothers do, though, right?

spk_1:   54:26
And it was like my favorite dinner quote unquote for when I was kid be like, Oh, we make, that's awesome. But then, like as an adult, like when I grew up, I realized, like, Wait, that was she was just feeding us dessert for dinner as I go. Horribly irresponsible thing for her to do is a mother,

spk_0:   54:41
like, literally cheese, sugar, eggs, butter, milk on a little, uh,

spk_1:   54:48
breakfast that could pass it at breakfast. But not not dinner. But that was my I think my favorite, like homemade dinner. It's a kid with that, I'd like to Sometimes we would go. We go to Great America. And then afterwards, like we go to El Torito, remember? L

spk_0:   55:05
Tre absolutely Remember El Torito. That place was amazing.

spk_1:   55:10
And like I loved El Torito as a kid. For some reason, they had they had a mud pie that I was, like, really fond of. Yeah, it was in the delicious mud pie.

spk_0:   55:19
Now California Mexican food man, I miss that stuff. It's just so, uh, delicious. All right. And then now is an adult. Any favorite favorite beverage that you're currently currently into Stiles genres. Anything? Nothing.

spk_1:   55:33
I'm a big a big seltzer guy. I like the sort of spindrift like, which is like It's not, It's it's not the look watch. It's not that because it's that that stuff has. It's like flavored seltzer with, like, natural flavors. They don't really know what's in it. Natural quote players could be like I looked that up and it could just be anything because this is

spk_0:   55:56
like, legitimately All that means is it is flavoring that was derived from natural sources. You can still extract like, ah, 100 food chemicals from natural sources. It's considered natural. It is, But it doesn't mean I squeeze the Lyman here

spk_1:   56:13
doesn't mean that, So So So I started checking out the spindrift stuff, which is like a little bit of grapefruit juice in your seltzer or whatever, like any little bit, you know, and that's those are delicious. I like those a lot

spk_0:   56:24
to ask Spindrift. We I got in a home brewing several years ago, and I got so into it was sick of bottling that I convinced Emily to let me build a keg aerator. And so I have a chest freezer that has four draft handles on it. And the only way she would allow me to do it is if I gave her one draft handle dedicated to club soda. So we have five gallons of club soda on draft at all times. You just You just need to have some syrups or think they do it. But it is a great night. Yeah, I know. It's a tank so to you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's very straightforward so that that keg of beer can be carbonated. And, you know, really, if you want to force it, you can kind of do in about 30 minutes if you rock the CAG back and forth on the ground because it gets a little more surface area to absorb carbon dioxide. But it's it's great. It's something I definitely I'm glad we have said it's also that is delightful. All right. And then I I'm hoping you're a fan of one of my favorite bar time activities, which is karaoke E. Oh, yeah. Um, all right. What's what's one? Your favorites.

spk_1:   57:26
Karaoke jams? Yeah. Uh, like, I believe in a thing called love. But darkness is a good one. That's really fun. Um, I like, I think the good test of a karaoke Places catalog is if you I look up to artists when I get to a karaoke place, I look up tenacious D, uh, weird, Al. And if they have either of those, you know, you're probably pretty decent shape for their catalogs. Especially weird out loud. Places don't have weird out, but if they do, you're good shape. And I realized I was at karaoke with a friend one time who put in a weird AL version of a song. I was just a weird out cover of it was I think I'm a clone now on And, uh and it's just like, what a great idea because instead of it's like the same song but with, like, fun lyrics. So I was like, That's just more fun for a cure. It just seems like more fun for karaoke. You setting So But I like I like doing white nerdy. That's a good one. Uh, that like and I tried it. I tried it once. And Carrie. Okay, look, I know this song, and then I was like, Oh, I don't know it well enough, so I gotta go work video practice it and I learned it. And now I can do it so that when I had just like because I feel like I earned it. Um, but yeah, you know, duets Air Good. I've had the time of my life classic. Suddenly, Seymour is a great one. Hey,

spk_0:   58:46
actually just went in Chicago about a month ago, and actually, there's a fun story that all briefly mentioned both your brother Dan and I were Seymour and Little Shop Wars in the same production where he was in the older cast. I was in the younger cast, but they showed the Rick Miranda Steve Martin movie Ah, little Shop of Horrors at a great music theater in Chicago called the Music Box and similar to what they do with Rocky Horror and have a live cast finding things out as great. They, they asked at the beginning, there, like now, how many of you nerds in this audience were in little shop of horrors of high school and it had to be fully 45% of the people they're raising their hands, and that's because the other half of the people were their spouses or friends who got dragged along with him. And Emily just kept looking at me Like, how do you know all these words? It's probably been 20 plus years, and I have thought about that job, but such an amazing show. And Ellen Greene, you don't talk about suddenly Seymour, the woman who plays Ah, uh, Audrey is just Come on. She's She's incredible. She's great. And who does this singing with you? Is your wife a singer?

spk_1:   59:51
Well, she is. She can sing, but is very reluctant. She'll she'll only do get on the mic if she's had a few. Whereas I you know, I need no prompting like Oh, microphone. Okay. Um, yeah, but no, it's usually like I mean, I don't have regular karaoke e partners. Usually all just like, whoever's there. Really? Anybody know? Um, but yeah, I did. I did karaoke you recently in Boston after, you know, when I was in Boston with with my lot of my co workers and stuff and Ashley and I saying saying a bunch of duets That was fun. We did. We did. We did. I've had time. I live with it Suddenly

spk_0:   1:0:32
suddenly said she do Suddenly, Seymour, I forget. I forget my personal favorite duet because I can nail his voice as Love Shack B 52. That's great. That's unfortunately Emily just hates for someone isn't B 50 two's, which I'm like, Wow, that's a strong word for such a fun band. She does not like the B 50 two's or ah, even listening to me sing it. But she'll she won't join me, but she'll listen to it

spk_1:   1:1:01
there like a certain aesthetic, I could see if you're not down with that that it would like. They're very much leaning in do that thing. And if you like that thing, I could see it. But

spk_0:   1:1:10
no, and you mentioned Tenacious D. We actually saw them in concert earlier. Will probably last October, I think in Chicago and oh my God, what delightful experience

spk_1:   1:1:22
I've seen. That's all of them, I think, three times in a year or something like like they played. I had never seen him before, and then a couple of years back, they started touring again after post Apocalypto came out, and, uh, and I saw them two nights back to back, uh, in Oakland, and then I saw them again in San Francisco. Like the end of that tour. Yeah. Yeah, it was. It was awesome there. So

spk_0:   1:1:47
there's such good musicians to multi style, you know that? It's absolutely when we go on road trips. Tenacious D is pretty much all we listen to the Oh, great, great. And then what? You know, talking about music, what are what are some of the things in your play list? What do you listen into these days or, you know, if you like you mentioned earlier, you're mostly just doing work. But when you are getting the opportunity, what do

spk_1:   1:2:12
you think? Yeah, I mean, I was I would listen to music every day when I was commuting to work, but, you know, I'm not doing that right now, but But I was listening to a little bit less music. But Louis Cole and the one of the band, his main band project called Nowhere K N O W E. R. Is. Ah, they're some of my favorite things happening musically. Right now. They're so good, Lose. Cole is a guy who's like a really incredible sort of virtuosic drummer and keyboard player who is a great many, produces all the music. Ah, himself and he sings on his solo stuff. And then he has a singer that he works with in the band. No, er and ah, it's just the most inventive, insane good feeling like funky crazy music. It's crazy, but it's it's accessible and insane at the same time, which is really like a crazy hard line to walk like it's got memorable awesome melodies, fun, interesting lyrics and also under the hood. There's just insane stuff happening. And then just the execution of all the musical ideas is just insane and flawless and and then wonderful. So, yeah, that's some of the most interesting stuff happening musically right now, as far as I'm concerned. Just lose Cole and that whole crew and the people that he works with her, incredible and nowhere in particular. Like I've seen them live twice, and both times it was like the best concert I've ever seen. I was like, Oh my God, I've never seen anyone do this like this is crazy And yeah, so that's awesome. Volf Peck is a lot of fun. They're they're really cool band. Um, they're kind of like I kind of like self styled like like a like the wrecking crew or something like. They see themselves as like an incredible like backing band. And they have, like several vocalists in the band, the guest vocalists. But they're like, really incredible, like funky, soulful like really good, really, really cool musicianship and sort of lighthearted, mostly and good songwriting and really talented people who like switch instruments and are all awesome at everything. And that's a cool, cool band. I saw them live over the summer and they were great. Um, they have a side project called the Fearless Flyers, who are incredible in this guy. Nate Smith plays drums for them, and he's like he's one of my favorite tremors. He is so crazy. He I think you just toured with Britney Howard. He's a drummer bringing Howard's touring band, and, yeah, he's incredible. And the fearless Flyers are just, like, really stripped down, just funk hard like instrumental funk. That's like really, really good, Um, and just so well executed, Um, what else?

spk_0:   1:5:15
I mean, that seems totally, totally good to may I have. I've actually very much enjoyed as I'm asking my friends, you know, What do you listen to? It's really given me a lot of fun new music t get into so that some of these go, like no favorite nineties band or whatever, but it's nice to have some new music toe to throw into the mix because I very much get stuck with you. This is what is was in my recently played.

spk_1:   1:5:37
So here we go. Yeah,

spk_0:   1:5:39
yeah. I actually just recently, I mean, yo, yo. Welcome to the party, Matt. Totally just got into childish Gambino. Donald Glover is so ridiculously talented. It's kind of un riel. Like people like that are on a different level. Like you're the heat, the Elon musk of your musical and comedy world. Triple threat, this guy without the flame throwing sort of a part. But yeah. Um, yeah. So that's been my my realization in the world, but cool. Darren, thank you so much for your time. This has been awesome. I look forward to finding a Windows pc somewhere and playing myself one of these games finally going through. I know that voice.

spk_1:   1:6:19
Yeah, yeah. Eventually will be on other platforms, but yeah, for right now, just windows.

spk_0:   1:6:24
You know, I'm gonna play it the right way, and I'm not gonna try and have some wonky Mac version that's gonna freeze on me every three seconds. Thanks, Apple. As I stare at my iPhone and my Mac computer, Apple TV in my apple, everything is happening. Well, when I get back to the Bay Area, we're gonna We're gonna get a beverage, drink whiskey and they're cool. Thanks, buddy. That sounds good. They're billions of people doing millions of things on this planet. I want to learn about all of it. What can you tell me? The podcast. For more info ca www dot What can you tell me dot Com. Hey, if you're enjoying the podcast, please do me a huge favor. That'll only take a moment of your time and won't cost you anything. Share with your friends. A quick message on social media or just mentioning in a conversation would be great. Also, leave me a review on iTunes. Thanks. And follow me on social media. You can find all the links in the show description below