Will Ger Driesen invite you to dinner?
Ger Driesen is a Thought Leader in Learning & Development. He’s addicted to Learning and works tirelessly with the L&D community to bring the profession to a higher level. He writes about trends in Learning & Development and speaks at international conferences on the future of learning. Ger is also Learning Innovation Leader at anewspring, a blended learning platform for learning providers. This gives him further insights into technology development including data analytics and artificial intelligence. Ger’s social connections extend far and wide and he appears to effortlessly achieve his own goal of ‘being successful by making others successful’. His support for the Brain Ladies has been fundamental in promoting a more scientific approach to the world of Learning and Development.
Will Ger Driesen invite you to dinner?
Ger Driesen is a Thought Leader in Learning & Development. He’s addicted to Learning and works tirelessly with the L&D community to bring the profession to a higher level. He writes about trends in Learning & Development and speaks at international conferences on the future of learning. Ger is also Learning Innovation Leader at anewspring, a blended learning platform for learning providers. This gives him further insights into technology development including data analytics and artificial intelligence. Ger’s social connections extend far and wide and he appears to effortlessly achieve his own goal of ‘being successful by making others successful’. His support for the Brain Ladies has been fundamental in promoting a more scientific approach to the world of Learning and Development.
Welcome to the Stellar Labs podcast. Future learning today. At Stellar labs, our mission is to bust the technology skills crunch with effective, measurable engaging training. We consult on design and deliver the technical and people skills and competencies you need in business. In these podcasts, you'll hear from industry experts and practitioners from the worlds of technology and training. They'll share their experience, insights and inspiration and their visions for the future with you. Keep listening to start your future learning, here today. Hello, I'm Stella Collins, Chief Learning Officer at Stellar labs. Today's podcast episode was recorded live at the Learning Technologies Conference 2020. Today, I'm delighted to be talking to Ger Driesen, Learning Innovation Leader at aNewSpring. Ger is one of the smartest, kindest, and best connected people I know. And one of his goals is being successful by making others successful. He achieves that hands down. Good afternoon, Ger. How's the session gone so far?
Ger:Hello Stella! Yes, really nice, inspiring different points of view. So really what I was looking forward to.
Stella:Good! I'm looking forward to meeting some of the students that you've invited over from Holland and from Belgium. What are they looking forward to, do you think?
Ger:Yes, so we have this Dutch and Belgian delegation for many years now and a few years ago some students started connecting with the delegation, but now there are about 20. And what I find interesting is that they say,"Okay, when I'm walking around here on the exhibition and also look at the themes of the sessions there, they tell all kinds of stuff that we didn't learn at university or didn't discuss at university yet." So that's an interesting one.
Stella:So it's a really good place for them to pick up some real workplace ideas and learning.
Ger:Yes, I guess so. And I think it's really nice that they, in that early stage of their career, take the initiative and put in the effort, et cetera to come over and inform themselves.
Stella:Yes, I think it's really cool. I wish I would've had that sort of opportunity when I was perhaps their age. We are actually going to interview some of the 30 under 30's a bit later on as well. So that's going to be interesting to see what they've been doing perhaps in a slightly different stage in their careers. So I've got a couple of questions for you Ger, that I'm really interested in your thoughts o n. Last time we met at a"Goldfish Bowl", we were having conversations about learning from errors, l earning from mistakes, learning from the things that don't always go perfectly. So I'm kind of interested, what have you left behind in learning that you never want to go back to?
Ger:Oh, so many things. There is one example that I can recall very vividly. I was a trainer for a few years and I said in a communication training,"We will do role play after the break and I will use my camera to make some videos and it will be really helpful and exciting to get some feedback also with video". And then there was one guy who said to me,"I'm sorry, I don't do video." I thought, o kay, I can handle that, heard it before. So I said,"Don't you worry. I understand that's it's a bit weird. It's also weird for me after all those years hearing and seeing myself, but you will be amazed how effective it will be for you. So please take a break, grab a coffee and it will be fine." But then the o thers left the room and he came and said,"I really want to stress once more, I don't do video!" I said,"Oh, I thought handled it well, but please tell me." He said:"I have been a prisoner of war and I was captured somewhere for 10 days with a video pointed at me at one side and a Kalashnikov at the other side. So I'm not sure how I will react if you put me on video. So please be aware of that."
Stella:It is not often you get something quite as dramatic as that, but I think we've all had those moments when as trainers we've thought, yes, we can handle it, we can deal with the difficult delegate. And actually then sometimes you do meet something that is perhaps rather more challenging than you.
Ger:I thought I could be proud, but in fact, I was arrogant and not listening to the guy.
:Yes, I'm sure that's something we can all relate to. So another thing that I've heard people talk about on all sorts of different conversations but I thought it would be an interesting one is, if you could organize the perfect dinner party and invite people who've inspired you in terms of learning, present, past, possibly even future. Who would you invite?
Ger:Oh, that's an interesting question. I first came over to the conference here in London, where we are now because there were two speakers from the US and I studied their work. The one is Ray Kurzweil, who is a very optimistic guy about the future and the other one is Jaron Lanier, who is kind of pessimistic, although he works quite intensely in the IT industry. And so they have different views on the future. And I think that tension between the optimistic side and the pessimistic side are both very interesting and we should take into consideration. So definitely would like to have them on the table. I had the opportunity to meet Robert O. Brinkerhoff a few times and his impact map is a great tool that I like a lot and he's a very smart guy who has a very interesting point of view looking at learning and learning impact. So he would be a nice guy to have at the table and then we ended up with three guys. So then, of course, I would invite the four brain ladies, because neuroscience of course, is very interesting a nd how that progresses. So that's also an exciting topic to include in our profession and keep learning about that all the time.
Stella:I'm really interested in that Ger, because I've just had a conversation over lunch about, can we use neuroscience in learning and development or can we not? And I think a lot of that comes down to what is your description of neuroscience. But what are your thoughts about using science and evidence-based learning and what you do?
Ger:Okay, so let's invite another lady at the table, Miriam Neyland. She just published a book about evidence-informed learning and development and I think it's hard sometimes. So one part, that's the most logical part is that I think, if we really want to be a good profession, we should be aware and we should well know the insights based on evidence, on research, about learning and all the elements that are there to create and to organize the best possible learning solutions. I think it speaks for itself. At the other part, and maybe that's also a bit general in our industry: sometimes if people believe that they have a piece of the puzzle that's very important, quite often it is very important, but then there is this tendency to start pushing that only piece of the puzzle and that gives the impression that all the rest is not relevant or not important, et cetera. So I think the main challenge is to always try to keep an overview of the different pieces of the puzzle and try to connect them in specific situations, specific contexts and specific challenges that you have and the evidence-informed part should definitely be part of it.
Stella:Yes, and I think, obviously really good trainers, really good designers, they've already got skills, they know what works because they've actually used in practice and maybe there isn't any evidence yet for what they do. So I don't think we should be throwing the baby out with the bathwater, just because there is no evidence. Doesn't mean it doesn't work, but it may well be that we do know there are things that don't work. Interestingly, talking about the jigsaw piece, I had the conversation with Bob Mosher yesterday and he was saying that people often say,"Oh Bob, you don't like classroom training!" Because he's talking about learning in the flow of work so much. And he said,"No, I absolutely love classroom training. It's fantastic. It's got a real place. But it's just a part of the jigsaw. It's not the whole thing. You can't do everything with classroom training and neither can you do everything in the flow of work."
Ger:Yes, I like that.
Stella:Yes, it was a really good conversation with him. So one last thought, what would be your last sort of thought from our conversation and from what you've perhaps learned at Learning Technologies in the last day and a half?
Ger:Yes, we just started, but I was in a session about learning ecosystems and it's amazing to see the lady, Danny Johnson, who is a very smart lady doing research on all kinds of things, but also on learning ecosystems. When she started interviewing people about this topic, quite often the first answer she got around was,"Hey, how many pieces of technology, apps, whatever do you have in place?" That the people said,"We have only one LMS. What do you mean?" And then when the conversation continued, quite often they ended up with 11 pieces of technology, and sometimes even more. So I think that that also is part of tying things together in a smart way. And it's not only on the puzzle side, the pieces of the puzzle, maybe more conceptual or the way we want to approach learning, but also be aware that you are part of an ecosystem and to have an overview of that ecosystem. Connecting the dots and knowing how to connect the dots in a smart way. I think that's a very useful idea to move forward with.
Stella:I like the idea of connecting the dots. That's a really nice one. Ger, thank you very much, as always a really interesting conversation and I hope you enjoy the rest of the conference.
Ger:Thank you so much. Bye.
Stella:Thank you for listening to today's podcast. Please share it with your friends and colleagues and visit our website, stellarlabs.eu to learn more about what we do and how we do it. Tune in to the next episode.