This episode speaks candidly about sexuality and has quotes that can be graphic in nature. Therefore, it is only recommended for a mature audience.
MTSU professor, Gerald Christian, speaks about his published research Quadriplegic Sexuality; Demystifying Misconceptions, where he hopes to educate and clarify frequent misconceptions on leisurely sex in the disability community. Gerald also speaks about his personal story of obtaining a spinal cord injury and how he overcame obstacles along his journey. Make sure to stick around to hear about his brush with stardom by becoming a "rock star" and landing on national television.
Normally to read and download the full article of his research, it would cost $44, however, the first 50 people using the provided link will be able to access and download the full manuscript for free. That link can be found here: https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/KYDYXCXIVYV779SF5GME/full?target=10.1080/01490400.2020.1712281
This episode speaks candidly about sexuality and has quotes that can be graphic in nature. Therefore, it is only recommended for a mature audience.
MTSU professor, Gerald Christian, speaks about his published research Quadriplegic Sexuality; Demystifying Misconceptions, where he hopes to educate and clarify frequent misconceptions on leisurely sex in the disability community. Gerald also speaks about his personal story of obtaining a spinal cord injury and how he overcame obstacles along his journey. Make sure to stick around to hear about his brush with stardom by becoming a "rock star" and landing on national television.
Normally to read and download the full article of his research, it would cost $44, however, the first 50 people using the provided link will be able to access and download the full manuscript for free. That link can be found here: https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/KYDYXCXIVYV779SF5GME/full?target=10.1080/01490400.2020.1712281
Host - Naveh Eldar 0:00
Today's episode speaks candidly about sexuality and has quotes that can be graphic in nature. Therefore it is only recommended for a mature audience.
Host - Naveh Eldar 0:26
Welcome to the landscape, a podcast to shed light on the people, programs and businesses that are changing the landscape for individuals with any type of disability. I'm your host Eldar. Today I speak with Middle Tennessee State University Professor Gerald Christian on his published research titled quadriplegic sexuality demystifying misconceptions. As you'll hear in the podcast, this paper is engaging, educational, and to be honest, a very good read. Normally it costs $44 to read and download a full paper from the store. in a long line, however, I will add a link in the description that will allow the first 50 people to access the full manuscript for free. So do yourself a favor and take advantage of that. Before we get started, I'd like to continue to thank regular listeners from different locations. And today, I want to thank the podcast supporters from Los Angeles, California, and Paris, France. You will want to make sure you listen to this entire episode. Because the last part we move into Gerald's story from how he became quadriplegic to how he ended up on Entertainment Tonight and Good Morning America. Now, we'll start this episode with Gerald explaining why he decided to do research on quadriplegic sexuality.
Gerald Christian 1:47
Just one day the journal, leisure sciences journal sent out an open inbox Hey, we're going to do a whole journal you know with every article dedicated to Six as leisure and they were like so if you got an idea of something interesting, something new pitch it to us. And my advisor was like, Hey, we should do that. So it wasn't something that I had planned for a long time. But we took that opportunity but you know, personally be in a quadriplegic for 20 years. Sex and disability has always been important to me. You know, I've had my own experiences ever since my rank and, and I got a lot of friends that have a disability, whether it's spinal cord injury, cerebral palsy, amputees that talk about how difficult it is dating and pursuing sex partners as a personal disability. So, you know, there was that personal interest and also I was interested in research and ableism. And this ties in They're so perfect. So that's kind of how I got there.
Unknown Speaker 3:05
And I know from talking to you that it's important that you focused specifically on this population. So why was that important? Did you didn't look at all disabilities,
Unknown Speaker 3:17
honestly, being a researcher and being a person with disability. When I read the lot of the literature and articles that are out there, it actually depresses me. So that's one reason why I was happy to do it. But it's real common to we wanted to encourage and we hope that people do this. Encourage impairment specific research. So instead of, you know, six in disability, and I have seen this not kidding, a research where we got in our sample we have with spinal cord injuries quadriplegics and paraplegics. We have amputees lower Liam. And they ask all the same questions at the end they make a conclusion. And like, here's our findings and it's just totally crazy it it's messing with the the finding so findings are inaccurate because that's worlds apart, you know, amputees versus spinal cord injury is just you know, there's a lot of similarities among disabilities. But then there's also a lot of differences and and not just talking physically but you know, socially. So we wanted to encourage that. You know, disability is a broad term, you gotta use it. It works for parking. I say this in the we put it in the article, I love this. It works for parking, but, you know, to be accurate and really educate people on sex and disability, something that is not talked about Enough. It's good to get really accurate findings but specifically focusing on certain impairments. And we wanted to do quadriplegics, paraplegics, cerebral palsy, so many things we wanted to do. But in the end, we just decided to go with quadriplegics, because we had a researcher that was a quadriplegic. You know, we did qualitative research. So when you have, if you have it, where one of the researchers has a shared identity, you know, it gives insight into it, and you're doing these open ended interviews. And so it's really great to build rapport. Right. Um, and so that's kind of how we ended up with folks and I'm quadriplegic specifically.
Unknown Speaker 5:48
And I want to point out before we start getting into the findings, which are extremely fascinating that it's a wide spectrum of people that you interviewed, and what I mean by that is some are single Some are engaged, some are married, most identified as heterosexual but a few identified as gay. So it was a nice spectrum of people within that community that you interviewed as well.
Unknown Speaker 6:12
Of course, there was some exclusion criteria. Well, one, you know, able bodied people have any disability outside of quadriplegics, but we encouraged everybody. Between Of course, we we didn't include minors, but adults with a cervical spinal cord injury to participate in the research. So any race, gender, sexual orientation, we we really wanted to have half women Half Men. We ended up with seven men and three women, which I was always mad about because disability and sex is you know, under researched, and it's is a big deal because this is people's lives, you know, we just wanted learn about the realistic sexual lives of people that were quadriplegics, see what they experienced is sex important and how to six contribute to their quality of life. And they're, you know, health, happiness overall life satisfaction, but it's under researched and it's extremely important. But women with disabilities, it's way more under researched. So we really wanted to get half and a half, we only got 30% of our participants were women. But statistically, I believe 20% of spinal cord injuries are women with 80% being me and so, I mean, proportionally, it worked out, you know, right. Um, one thing that I do, hey, we have a great sample and I'll show you like, you know, how diverse It is, like you said their wares eight, heterosexual to identified as gay, but we didn't get diversity on race. And that kills me. I know my graduate school advisor from my counseling degree is out there and so mad at me but, um, I think it's just the area, you know, like so that's the one thing that I would encourage with other research researchers pursuing the same stuff, you know, definitely take advantage of any area where you can get more diversity in there because that was one spot that that we really you know, hated but you know, we worked with what we have. And we also wanted people that had only been hurt, you know, at a minimum for a year, which this was crucial, okay?
Unknown Speaker 8:55
Because, you know, talk about like six and disabilities underneath searched. And it's not always the greatest stuff that comes out of it. So adjusting spinal cord injuries are traumatic to the body, psychologically, socially to everything. There is such a major adjustment that has to be made. And in the early stages, it's really the first couple of years, you know, are the hardest, and you're making so many adjustments. And that's one reason why we went out into the community. We wanted to take a picture, you know, of real six lives of people living with quadriplegia in the community, to educate people without disabilities and educate people who have just got injured or new quadriplegics. And so we avoided that early stage category where people are still going through rehab. They're still going through anger, denial, bargaining, all that stuff, adjust into the function and feeling and sense In their body, because you know, it's so much stuff intersects with sex and disability that we thought it was important and ended up being yours as a quadriplegic, I think was 630 years. So that's really, like you said a lot of variety. And they were from 26 years old to 54 years old, and all levels of cervical spinal cord injuries, really from C four to C seven. So we had quadriplegics, I'd say three out of the 10 totally independent, like do every single thing themselves, like most paraplegics, and have a whole lot of function and do all daily living skills on their own, and then six or seven that in some way rely on caregivers or nurses to do certain things. So I really like that about it. You know, it had a wide variety. And we found, you know, so many similarities in there but I think six or single likes the wait, no, I know six were single. I worked on this. We worked on it for so long that I have just all these interviews and stuff memorized, but six were single. Two were married. Two were in serious relationships. And I got to talk about qualitative research. That's, that's one thing that makes this research so important is a lot of the stuff that's been done is done with surveys and statistics, because that's the, you know, I don't know, most use technique out there. This stuff is way too complicated. And usually it's just looking at reproduction and hey, can you get an erection? Can you maintain it? How confident are you in it? A lot of the stuff somebody has termed it is You know, when people are researching spinal cord injury, it's about the broken male and the dangerous female. So men's penises and are they working and how do we get them working? And with females, are they unfit to be mothers and how do we keep them from being pregnant and that was something we found the the the women that identified as gay in this study talked about having birth control push Donal, but with qualitative research, you're doing all your data comes from people's voices and their stories. So differently, want people to read this article and read the findings, like you're the stuff from actual people that are quadriplegics mouse, and there's some cool stories in there.
Unknown Speaker 12:49
Right? So I'm gonna take the mystery off the table and state right away that quadriplegics are sexual. They enjoy sex, and now we're going to get into what does that mean? But let's explain that a little bit. So you had some findings, I know you have more findings that made its way into the paper. So but we're going to start with the findings in the paper and maybe you can share with us some of the other ones a little later. But the first finding is that people with quadriplegia are givers. So explain to us what does that mean?
Unknown Speaker 13:22
You know, they were having intercourse and orgasms and Africa I think six of the seven men could ejaculate and but the the big thing the most important thing it didn't six doesn't revolve around penetration. It would revolved around pleasure the experience so they gain the most sexual satisfaction by pleasing their partner. And it was pretty much always with oral six nine out of teen were givers they loved pleasing their partner through oral I got some great quotes here. But and I want to point out that one of I say nine out of 10, one of our participants hasn't had sex since her injury. And so, you know, she, she just, she didn't have a comment on it. But all of the sexually active, you know, said that the giving so because we didn't seek to find like, hey, are quadriplegics, do they love oral sex and I know given their their partner pleasure, we just asked these questions like, Hey, what's your favorite sexual position, given oral sex, getting off my partner? So that was just really stood out. And I made notes as some quotes. It's like I said, with qualitative and what's really great about this research, it's all from the participants own words, you know, but Jess auro, for me is the go to because my face still works perfectly fine, very loud and just such an awesome quote and we started off with that one. But Willie the actual act itself, just making sure that she is sent satisfied is how I get my satisfaction watching her pleasure I take pleasure in that so a lot of psychological satisfaction and people talked about it made them feel quote normal, to have sex and to still be able to give somebody able bodied two to eight had dated only dated able bodied people to had dated other disabled people but it made them feel complete, be unable to sexually please another person and Chad, please read this recently. Chad wasn't Goldman and so much good stuff. But one of the, you know, best giver quotes from from Chan is, I do think that I've found that a lot of women that have been with they prefer sessions with me more than they do able bodies. Now I'm not saying it's anything to do with my appendage, but it's just because we just take our time not in a rush. And it's not about a wham bam, thank you. We say we because I feel like I can speak for most of us we find pleasure in pleasing our partner that makes us feel really good as well, to know that she's satisfied. I love giving it that's one thing that I've realized that early on that girls expect me being in a wheelchair that I'm going to perform oral and they expect that I'm going to be good at oral or it was very, very important and I take pride in it. I take pride in anything I do and anything I do. I want to try to be the best and I'm all about making the girl I'm with comfortable majority of the time and the majority of the time girls asleep with have never been with a gun or wheelchair. I'm there first and I want to make it as good as possible. When I'm having sex with a girl for the first time. I feel like I'm having sex with her for all the quads out there. I feel like I have to represent for us and I go way out of my way to try to overcompensate or blow their mind. I'm just trying to give us good name. That's Chad. So,
Unknown Speaker 17:28
so chat wants to he wants the ladies that he's with to go and tell their friends.
Unknown Speaker 17:35
Like you know, hey,
Unknown Speaker 17:36
this is this is not what you might expect. Yes,
Unknown Speaker 17:41
yeah, people in wheelchairs can have sex and are awesome at it. There's this Chad. Yeah, that just blew my mind. Right. And we'll get into it with the other theme. There's a reasoning behind this when he says you know overcompensate him trying to blow their minds. But it wasn't just the love to give it was as this shows, they took pride in it and love to being great at giving and it This has been found in other research. Um, how after spinal cord injuries man can become a chance did an article and said more Tinder lovers more consider it making it more about the other person. And so that's what we found was big time was giving was extremely just important hands down the favorite.
Unknown Speaker 18:34
It's all your next finding was the people with quadriplegia are sexual beings just Pyrrhus is like a clean statement. Right? And the reason why that's important is because there's this, as many of them talk about there is this concept that they're not right. And so let's talk about that a little bit.
Unknown Speaker 18:57
So one of the research questions was How do quadriplegics perceive their own sexuality and then how to quadriplegics perceive others perceive their sexuality. So we want to look at both and this is, we found that eight out of 10 weren't just sexual beings they were, they claim to be very sexual beings, and one wasn't sexually active. And one of the other people in the study said that, you know, she really enjoyed sex, but it wasn't crucial to her happiness and quality of life, but eight very sexual beings. So we found that six helped them manage stress, gave them confidence, self esteem, helped with anxiety, depression, and just enhance their mood. So quality of life, you'll see that term in this article a lot. It's multi dimensional, but quality of life. Basically, you know, is referring to happiness and overall life satisfaction. And so we had some great quotes from from our people that talked about how, yes, I am sexual. In fact, it's very important. And it's, you know, increases, you know, my health and my happiness. In fact, stormy the the first question he asked the doctor wasn't will I walk again? It was Will I be able to have sex? He's like I'm not making this up not his first question I asked. And so six was just super important right off the bat. All this talk about t had sex for the first time in the rehab hospital and arrow as well. Willie, they a lot had sex as soon as they got out of the hospital, Jess was like I'm calling somebody up. Hey, let's try this out, you know, and for a lot of them when they learned that, you know, after their spinal cord injury and they're here in so much horrible stuff like arrow, you know, doctors telling my wife that hey, you're gonna defeat him bathe them do everything for him the rest of his life, you know, just so much negative bomber bad just total depression and then you know within weeks after the accident, getting an erection and finding out Hey, I can still have sex and just how instantly they felt so much better. But one of my I got some favorite quotes here from their arrow, I would say I'm extremely sexual on a scale from one to 10 breathing is 10 so that would be an so six would be an eight. It keeps me sane and makes me feel good about life. As far as quality of life. I think it's important. I'm in a better mood. I think I would kind of relate it to the people that Didn't need to see sunlight on they don't see sunlight in winter. So yeah, I would be in a downer mood. And that is just humongous. So it isn't just, you know, yeah, I can have six. It's just like everybody else. You know, sex is important. It's an important aspect of our life. You Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 22:19
And I want to point out to the listeners, like research papers are typically not the funnest things to read, like we keep on saying, but as you can tell by your quotes, this is a different kind of research paper, then there's somebody who's not in academia may not be aware of so this is, first of all, it's not a super overly long paper. And it's just full of these fascinating quotes from from these individuals that are just there to enlightening and they're honest and they're cussing. And they're they're celebrating and it's just as odd as it sounds. It's a very good read. So of course, like I've stated before, I'm got to make sure that the link is in the description. It's on the social media. But I really encourage people to go and take a look at the full article because you're reading a few quotes, but there's a lot more in there. because like you said, it was very evident. The relief, it was it was beyond walking. They were like, Okay, what about sex though, right? Like that was really the thought that so many of them had. And I'm sure their partner says, well,
Unknown Speaker 23:30
it's funny you mention that because, you know, this is my first publication and so sending it to professors since it came out that I'm friends with on campus and all these people. And what I've heard the most is it's not boring. Like it's not boring, so definitely a different type of articles. So yeah, read it. Chad said that uh, Sex just kind of takes you away. There's a lot of aspects of our lives that are just completely shitty. And I don't think about any of those while I'm having sex, like, wow, that and he didn't specify, but you know, he's referring to daily living skills, you know how much your life changes, everything takes longer, everything's more difficult with transfers and dressing. And so you know, not everything about it is great, and, but when I'm having six, I don't even think about any of that. And stormy there is going to be a part two, so if you like this, please be on the lookout for that we, we have Part Two coming up, but, you know, stormy talked about, not even remembering that he's a quadriplegic, like, you know, he forgets and it's only one other people remind him and so and that's in the you know, in the other thing, It turns in better than that. But, Jesus, I feel like I feel accomplished with six because I'm get somebody off, I can still do that and it releases in energy and just makes me overall happier. So I think that would surprise a lot of people also, we gotta throw in there. So even if you know about disability and sexuality, read the article, it's got some entertaining stuff. My sister is she got her bachelor's in nursing. She's a Rn, she's got a brother, that's a quadriplegic for 20 years. So she knows a lot of this stuff. And she read it and she was like, you know, holy crap. I learned something and I'm like, so what is it she's like, you know, I know that people disabilities are sexual and have sex. But marathon six, she's like, this, I this. I didn't know. She's, you know, she's like, chat. It sounds like staying marathon six. But we found that quickies were not popular, you know, wanted to. And it kind of ties back to the giving, taking time to please their partner and make the experience is great as possible and just kinda just totally being immersed in into the experience. And yeah, so we learned from from the interviews about marathon six, so just
Unknown Speaker 26:34
making a day of it, I guess, right? Yeah, one was just annoyed that at the thought of having sex for a short amount of time, he was like, What is that all about? So, yeah. So the last one of the findings that are in the paper are the perception that perception is not reality. Right? And of course, we know that perception is that you are not interested in sex. You don't have sex, you're not capable of sex. So let's talk about that finding.
Unknown Speaker 27:06
So that is a really big one. And that's why this article is so important, you know, and we want so many people to read it because nine out of 10 talked about how able bodied people. And you'll see in the paper thing, they refer to them as a BS a lot, which stands for able bodied, viewed them as not capable of living a full life or one but not being capable of having sex, and then explained a lot of reason and shared a lot of personal stories of situations that showed how people you know, have kind of looked at them like you know, they're a sexual sexually invisible and how they're discounted. As you know, possible six foreigners Chad talked about flirting with a girl at a bar and given his phone number out, I think no way. She gave him a note and said after they'd been flirting and talking and said if you ever get out of this thing caught me as he was talking about the wheelchair, and Chad me and Chad said, You know, I told her is like I gave it back and said if I ever get out of this thing, I'm too good for you anyways, um, but yeah, it was widely discussed. This is nine out of 10 but some insider info actually. The one where that wasn't found was response to the question how do you feel other people view your your sexuality or see you sexually? He wasn't willing to talk about it. He said my mindset is that no matter what they think it's not going to change how much feelin and function I have, right. So I'm concerned about how I think. And that is really awesome. But it kinda, you know, made us think well, was there an experience, you know, early on he talked about how it was difficult early on being oppressed and seen as sexually visible that made him kind of come to this. But it was, you know, through the through the whole sample, Sherry Sherry, who she said, I don't think able bodied people look at us and think, oh, they're definitely having sex. And Claudia, they definitely think that I can't have sex. I think that they think that we all can. And Richard, this is a great one. He said, it's a lot harder to go out and pick women up being in a chair being a quadriplegic. I feel like women would look at me different or they would see me for who I am. Or wouldn't see me for who I am. I think they see us as they don't have sex and Carlos talks about being treated Did like seeing is cute and kind of like a pet or a puppy dog, teddy bear, and not as somebody that, you know, hey, you can have a relation an adult relationship with. And what's really interesting there there's other articles that's been done Santos and Santos just did a study similar to this with women. And they talked about there being this ignorance out there and about disability and sexuality. They're just not sexual beings, either either that people with a disability can't have sex, or don't want to have sex or just both. And what we found interview in our participants was, it's an innocent ignorance. So don't feel bad about it all of and what we mean by innocent ignorance is that these same quadriplegics who are saying people Don't see as see us as sexual people, they, you know, it's sexual oppression. before their injury, they felt the same way they did know that people disabilities were sexual people could have sex wanted to have sex. And that's what we mean in the paper about innocent ignorance is just not something that's talked about, you know,
Unknown Speaker 31:23
and that's one of the, you know, you and I have been very excited about recording this, this episode, right. And one of the reasons is, one sexuality in general isn't talked about a lot, regardless of the population. It's just not something that's not super talked about, but especially in the disability community, and you want it to get this information out there because like you said, you know, it's and it's quoted before, you know, they had their accidents or you had your accident, you felt the same way. So you can't even be mad at it. It's just that that that information isn't out They're for people to know. And that's one of the things we're trying to solve with the article with the podcast with with, you know, putting things on social media is to educate people, right? There's there's no anger in it. It's just you don't know what you don't know.
Unknown Speaker 32:14
Yeah, definitely. And that's the whole point is education and disability awareness. But yeah, definitely no anger in it after talking about this innocent ignorance. stormy and others agreed with this storm. He was like, asking me about it. He said, You know, I want people to ask me questions in definitely I encourage that when you don't know something so many people. You know, we we all act on assumptions, we kind of do our own best guessing and, and a lot of this, the way they're treated comes from stereotypes and false assumptions that even they had before their injuries. But just ask questions and you know, they'd be happy to talk about it. Share it, but it definitely is something that must be talked about. I always did this thing and it's not in the interview script and in this paper, but at the end, I would say, is there anything about sex and this? Is there anything else about sex and disability that you would like to share with the world? You know, like, boom, here's your moment. And so we got a lot of really good stuff from that. And this was it, you know, don't pre judge don't make assumptions. Sex is dependent on the person, not ability. So we found through the research, literature review and doing the the interviews, that ability is 60. And disability is not people disabilities are often viewed or treated as broken, or lacking, you know, and that is not what we found it all. Sherry, who it's been found in ours. backs this up that, you know, if you're a sexual person before your spinal cord injury, you're going to be a sexual person after more are more likely to. And that's the same with all of ours. Sherry who has not had six since her injury, she wasn't crazy about six when she was able bodied. So it's it's people were in it it's not ability is what sexual and disability is not sexual. It's people and you know, everybody are people first. So, look at it that way.
Unknown Speaker 34:35
I've read a similar article when it came to happiness. And it actually looked at people who had some kind of disability later in life, like whether it's due to an accident or something like that. And they found that after a year, if you were an unhappy person before you're an unhappy person now and if you are a happy person before your happy person, like you adjust, but and that's one of the reasons you want it not to speak to people who were recently injured, the shortest time period in your study was six years because you want it people. You wanted to make sure you are interviewing the person and not the trauma.
Unknown Speaker 35:12
Yes, definitely. And we want to use this and educate people without disabilities so you can cut down on this stigma. So it's not impossible Carlos talked about, um, and Carlos was like, you know, I'm a handsome guy. And since my injury he was engaged in the interview but he said after my injury I once went four years without having sex. He's like there's no way that would have happened or ever happened when I was unable body you know, and sexually active. So
Unknown Speaker 35:49
yeah, so let's, there's one more thing I want to get into before we start talking about you a little bit and that is in this in the for the sake of education. Because it's part of your paper, again, it's it's people have to go check it out. But one of your question to the men is, how do you maintain? Or can you maintain an erection during sex? Because that is one of the questions that people that don't have a disability are curious about. Right. So do you want to talk about that a little bit? I do have it right in front of me if you want me to.
Unknown Speaker 36:25
Yes, I do. So and I made a note of it we
Unknown Speaker 36:31
you know, it's funny all my background is in psychology. And you know, now I'm in health and in performance do in leisure research, which is an interdisciplinary field, a lot of sociology and psychology. There's times when I was researching this article, and right now as I feel like a medical student, because I'm talking about all this physical stuff, and so much of the previous research focuses on the physical alone. So we, we got all this great narratives for psych, psychological and social, but there's that stigma around the physical. So we made sure to ask you about that. And I'm so glad that you asked about that. Let's see. So, of the seven men, each of them could get an erection which I'll talk about, well, I'll talk about it now. So with spinal cord injuries, there is a thing called a reflex or action. So and what that means is, so psychogenic arousal is whenever you see something you're mentally aroused and signals travel through your spinal cord and physical arousal happens in you, you know, you have you become aroused, you get an erection. And so with spinal cord injuries, most of the time, not even all the time. So that's another thing so many people are lumped together these participants in our sample There's so many different things print paralysis does not mean completely numb. Dad can't feel anything. They wanted to point that out, you know, some maybe and some have some sensation. So physical stimulation touching, you know, if they're a reflex or eggs and if their penis is touched physically, then they get interactions and it's the reflex or action part. And Jan, of course, good old Jen talked about like, how, you know, this is fantastic great for his sessions and marathon six but he's like it's also embarrassing because you know, I'm rolling along the sidewalk in the wind blows too hard. I'm getting interaction and It's humiliating. He's like, in fact, I've started wearing like compression underwear. So but he's happy about it. He's not complaining, but seven of the men, all all of the men could get an erection through these reflex ryx and so touch the penis penis becomes direct three maintained interaction for intercourse you know whether oral, vaginal, whatever, and without you know any methods they can maintain erection four of the seven used erectile dysfunction medication to maintain the erection for intercourse or whatever so I think that was surprises a lot of people you know the and that's why I'm so glad you asked it. You just think broken. paralysis does there's no easy reaction or anything happening. I think maybe I told you this one time. And just personally speaking. I remember I had my accident in in May at the end of the year junior year in rehab all summer and I went back To School is like, I think it's the first day
Unknown Speaker 40:04
who's deaf? What What year is this?
Unknown Speaker 40:06
This is a 2000. But one of my my, my buddies at school like the first thing he said to me when he sees me in a wheelchair for the first time was Oh, man, your thing don't even work, you know? And just, I was like, Wait, what? I mean, we were in the gymnasium to lay people around. So there is that like, so? Yeah, given was favorite. What was the most popular among the sample but, you know, they can get erections. And like I said, Good ejaculate. That's a whole nother different things to talk about. But I do also want to talk about because so much is about men and erections. The women in this study, two were sexually active. So the third one wasn't but of those two, you'll if you read the paper, you'll see which one about traditional orgasms physical so really we, I think we just coined this and made it up because people were talking about how you know some of them we get mental orgasms and other ones like, no, I feel it. I ejaculate. And we call that the traditional physical orgasm. And so one of the women experiences mental orgasms during stimulation and the other one experiences physical traditional orgasm, through clitoral stimulation, you know, vibrator mouth hands, whatever. And so definitely want to put that out there. Like I said, most research revolves around me and, and I think that surprises people like hey, man can get an erection. Women can can feel and experience pleasure and orgasms.
Unknown Speaker 41:49
And I always want to point I wanted to point it out the entire podcast so far, but you had one participant a female participant who kind of answered negative to almost Everything But I wanted to point out that it wasn't from an inability. She, when you read the paper, you see that that was a choice that she made. Like she had some self esteem issues and things like that it had nothing to do with an ability or inability.
Unknown Speaker 42:15
Yeah. That's so important that you pointed that out because something we found is and people don't think this way, but what people without disabilities are doing people with disabilities are doing, you know, they're having sex, you know, multiple times a week. They're, you know, confident in having sex, they're having babies, everything that goes on. And so yeah, are one that wasn't that hadn't had sex. It wasn't because she couldn't, for example, you know, asked about masturbation as well. And she hasn't even tried that, like she's just not interested. And so that is Something to understand, even when people aren't sexually active is not the disability is that people first approach it's sexes is a human thing? Well look at it from that point regarding people in humans, but so with women, and we want to do more with this and really encourage that, because everybody's talking about experiencing discrimination. And by we only had three and only two of the experienced sexual activity experience, but women are experiencing much more stereotypes and oppression. And one of the things that's different for men and women is with sex and spinal cord injuries is body image issues. So that she talked about that contributing to why she hadn't had sex since and she was in a relationship Darien when she had her injury and whenever she got out of the They were gonna her and her boyfriend was going to have sex. And he said something pretty horrible. And they kind of traumatized her and made her self conscious. And then, many years later, I can't remember off the top my head if she was how long she'd been hurt. I think it's over 10. But so that was in the first year and now we're talking Yes, 12 years later, she still hasn't had sex and she's more scared than ever, you know, nervous about it. Because stuff like that. But body image issues is huge and should be addressed. And also body position. You know, we live the gender expectations from society, like I said, more oppression, more stereotypes. Women are expected to take care of men and look at a woman with a disability. Well, she can't take care of me, you know, and women are expected to do everything. So there's a self consciousness about why can't get in to sexual positions, and you interview the man, it's like, you know, I just need to be on the bottom. So it's totally different. You know, it's similarities, but it'll a lot of differences. And we definitely hope that people will pursue that and look more into sexuality for women with disabilities.
Unknown Speaker 45:22
I want to get into you a little bit as a person. Well, before we do that, you wanted to make sure because that's always how I end my show. But you wanted to make sure you talked about the team that worked on this research project. So do you want to tell us everybody who worked with you on this?
Unknown Speaker 45:38
Yes, definitely. Because, yeah, there's definitely a team collaboration and effort and I had some really great co authors. Dr. Joey gray at mtsu, a fellow PhD graduate teaching assistant, Kelsey Roberts was another co author. And Dr. Jackie Eller, a sociology professor at mtsu. But also at leisure sciences, we had some amazing co editors lizer and Neil Carr. So, yeah, a lot of people worked on this so I have to thank them because so much time and effort was put into this and it was the people at leisure sciences that was like, well, and go and buy not, you know, what we wrote. But those narratives with the crazy cool funny, awesome, enlightening stuff that that the participants said they were like, this has to get out there. You know, this is this is so good. We want we got to get these voices out there. So thank you to them as and co authors were awesome.
Unknown Speaker 46:48
Like now let's get into you because you have a very interesting story which I know you'd like to share as well. And I know you don't like you don't mind getting personal. So if we could get a little bit into What happened your junior year, which led to you becoming a quadriplegic?
Unknown Speaker 47:06
Okay, so I'm junior year,
Unknown Speaker 47:10
and I just adjusted to clarify, we're talking junior year of high school.
Unknown Speaker 47:13
Yes, junior year of high school. Um, so my whole life was sports. You know, my whole plans was to play college football and you know, I was on track to do that. But football girls having fun that was you know, my thing. And then my life just changed suddenly, may 6 2000. I had a car wreck. I was being stupid. Speeding, binge drinking wasn't wearing a seatbelt. And the curb. Last thing I remember was doing like 55 or 60. And, you know, the it was small country town, there's this real sharp curve. It says like there's one of those signs slow 25 miles per hour. And so totally missed the curve, hit the guardrail and hit my head on the windshield, so wasn't wearing a seatbelt. So wear your seatbelts, and you know to get speaking that's one of the things I'm super passionate about this, but hit the windshield broke my spinal cord, and was thrown out of the window truck flipped off a bridge and thrown into a creek. And, you know, soon as my head hits the windshield, I was paralyzed. And this creek was really shallow. I landed on my back. If I landed on my stomach, I would have drowned or would have been dead. So that's one thing I've always looked at, and always tried to adapt and be positive and look at it as you know, I'm alive. And that is a happy thing and a lucky thing. Health to me is is happiness, you know being alive, but it was it Horrible it was, you know, you can imagine like this How difficult I was in rehab for, um, I was in the hospital for 90 days, I think three months. I had it may 6, and then I was in rehab hospital to August a week before my senior year started. So that was fortunate I had good time. And you know, I finished my junior year and was able to start my senior year. But I mean, it was, you know, just extremely that's why we don't interview people, you know, in that first year, and a lot of people do those studies. I was talking about that, you know, they recruit in rehab places and with newsletters that go out to people that just leave every rehab. But I was very fortunate to have an awesome family, my mom and my dad and my sister who is a nurse, so I was in it three months. spend one night alone in the hospital. So you know, that was awesome. But I had to go back to school. And at that point, I was totally dependent couldn't do anything. And that's why I speak so much about drinking and drive in and or impaired driving drugs and driving texting and driving, don't do it. Especially now in the world of Uber.
Unknown Speaker 50:26
You know, we've met with our coffee a few times, and we've met in person and one time we met at Starbucks and you got the coffee yourself and you you drink the coffee with no assistance. And so that confuses people sometimes, right? Because you're quadriplegic, so explain and also if you could share the challenge you have with the doctor once, also with that issue, so so quadriplegia doesn't mean you're completely paralyzed. And yeah, so
Unknown Speaker 50:55
I had a doctor tell me I was a paraplegic. Um, but first Yeah, so yes, I had a doctor not, thankfully not the one that operated on me and then the hospital rehab but later when I got home I needed I needed a doctor for insurance Bokeria, you know, my diagnosis so I could get, I forget what it was maybe like a note taker for school, because reading is not a strong suit. But as like so many say, you know, I'm a quadriplegic, and he's like, but you're not a quadriplegic or paraplegic. I was like, No, I'm a quadriplegic, and he's like, but you can push a wheelchair. My college roommate was a quadriplegic, and he was picturing Christopher Reeves, you know, he was, he was neck down could move nothing. That's a quadriplegic, so you're not a paraplegic. I got a new doctor. Somebody because that was gonna be a problem. But yeah, so there's so many and that's one reason why I wanted to do impairment research. You know, it's such a big difference with quadriplegia some can almost can do everything and have function with me. I'm gonna see five, six, and I have the use of my biceps and my shoulders. I can move my wrist up, I can't move them down. I can't move my fingers at all. But hold on, you know, with a lot of exercise in years of doing all this stuff. You know, I put my my fingers that I can't move. I put them around a cup of coffee and stuff. And so it looks like you know, I'm holding it and stuff. But, yeah, quadriplegic is impairment in any or all four limbs, that's where that doctor was wrong. So, and I'm just at the borderline, too because some quadriplegics are in electric chairs. Some were in manual chairs. And so I'm just really big on exercise and I've always tried to get as strong and independent as before. possible, but there is some people you know that the think
Unknown Speaker 53:04
that I'm a paraplegic and so what point did you go from? I just had this accident I was a very good athlete, you know headed off to college. And now like you said, especially initially you needed people to help you with every single thing. So I imagined at that point, you were like, I'm never going to college. I've never So when did that change for you? And how did that change
Unknown Speaker 53:29
with time So yeah, that's because you know, all the sudden you you know, your cousin was class favorite, most admired and then, you know, you're a teenager and your parents are having to bathe you. That's embarrassing. I hope you go to the bathroom. It's so it definitely wasn't overnight. It took some adjusting. I was going to homeschool. You know, I told my my girlfriend whenever I was in still in the rehab hospitals like I'm homeschooling, you know, forget this no going back. And she's like, no, you're not going to go back to school. And so I do now so glad that I did. But everybody treated me so much different, which I noticed off the bat and that was so frustrating. Because I was like, Hey, you know, fortunately, I wasn't different mentally. I hadn't sustained Brain, Brain injury or anything else. Like I'm still the same person. I'm just sitting down but people were really weird. They quit coming around, they quit talking to me it was, quote too hard for them to see me this way. So, and I think playing sports my whole life, like being yelled at to like, work harder, you know, become stronger to better helped a lot because I kind of like seen it is a challenge. And then my sister being an RN, she played a big role. heard in it because this was kind of normal to her as far as like, not her brother being disabled, and going through spinal cord injury, but she had seen it before. me my mom, my dad hadn't seen it at all. And so I'm there in the hospital at the beginning. I was I remember they sent a psychologist to my room, because I was depressed. All I did was lay on my back because I couldn't move. I couldn't even scratch my nose, you know. And the first time I tried to punch myself, no dresses, but I was counting the dots on the ceiling. And if you've been in hospitals as weird See, there's a lot of dots. Right? Good thing do. But my sister while I was still in there, she was like, you know, least you get to go to college for free. And so I didn't know that and kind of, you know, made that joke, which is very true. And I took advantage of that. So yeah, it was just learning what all I still had. I had another thing that happened two weeks after my car accident, where, you know, feeling kind of weak and just wanted to go to sleep. And you know, I sort of never spent a night alone in the hospital. My parents, my girlfriend, it's my sister. Somebody would stay with me as lucky that is my sister was there just, you know, so lucky to her. For this, my sister will stand with me this night. As real sleepy. I'm cute. And I threw up a little it was reddish. emesis just like you that's not good. You know? You can blow and I'm like, yeah, eat grapes. It's the grapes. Leave me alone. I'm going to sleep. And I went to sleep but she actually went and got the doctors the trauma of the Ric and cause bleeding ulcers in my stomach. I lost so much blood my my heart stopped. had a seizure. I just going on through this, Rick. And I started I went sleep, you know, and I woke up, thankfully, also, I was across the street from the Vanderbilt hospitals, it was Vanderbilt rehab, and I woke up with them sticking to steal my nose The next day, they tell me like, you know, almost died. And I was like, you know, talking to God, like twice in a month, like what's going on? But that really made me Just be happy to be alive and thankful for that, and do as much as you can with what you got. And so I you know, I started going, going back to school, and I graduated high school with honors and then it was time to go go to college. I went to community college for a year, and my sister went to mtsu, Middle Tennessee State University, Middle Tennessee State University. And so she knew the campus really well. I had been there as a kid a bunch, you know, stay in with on spring break and stuff like that it was so cool again to live in the dorm, the dorm as a middle schooler, whatever, for a week and but she took me up to campus and drove me around. I was too weak to do like, student orientation to go in lines and roll around the summer heat. And at the beginning, I couldn't roll really well. But so she drove me around. We did our own freshman orientation. And we was doing the wheelchair and my sister yelled at him, we excellent talk to that guy, Robert, and he was a paraplegic. And he just gave gave us the whole tour and he's like, here's where you should live if you're in a wheelchair, like this most accessible, and I went up there which is scary because at that point in I still couldn't do everything. And so it definitely was scary for mom and daddy. You know, cuz I needed help with bathroom stuff and bathing and transferring and just like um, Go on three hours away off to live in a dorm room. But it helped me a lot. I always try to encourage new quadriplegics to do their get out go out there and do and stuff like that helped me learn how to use the bathroom how to do dressing or transferring and stuff and and then I got one degree and then I got another degree and now I'm working on a PhD and driving and playing sports and you know, just being active as possible.
Unknown Speaker 59:31
One of your a great story that you have, but we have to we have to end with it. You living the best life that you can live, put you at a concert, or you got to meet and become good friends with a very famous somebody. So you you want to tell that story.
Unknown Speaker 59:48
Yes. So I went to a you know, me and my sister grew up parents, huge music lovers playing all kinds of oldies music, you know, six 60s 70s so we grew up listening to a lot of older music. And so we love the Beach Boys and I went to a beach boys concert with my parents. And we didn't know. You know, we got there and somebody was like john Stamos is here. And I loved for house. You know, as I watched that, I watched it in rehab. Like, my favorite art, and I always joke with john and I told him early on in our friendship, I was like, dude, the two coolest TV characters is Uncle Jesse and Dylan. Dylan from 902. Don't get any cooler in there. But yeah, he is. He's a he's a beach boy. When he's not doing you know, movies and commercials and doing other stuff. He goes and plays with them super talented drummer, guitar player, singer. And so during the concert, and I'm not one of these, it's like, hey, let's just sit here. You know, I'm good. onto a concert, I'm doing some dance and in rockin, and so I'm singing along and just bouncing around as much as I can. And I noticed he'd seen me a couple times, like looked over at me, but towards the end of the show, he points. He's like, does the whole come near thing with his finger? And do Was it 16 candles, I did the like, turn around and look behind me and I like he's not pointing at me. And I turn back around. He does it again. He's like, yes, you, you know, get up here. And I was like, all right, so I just barreled and the crew helped me get up on stage and I got to seeing surfing USA with the Beach Boys and john Stamos and I'm like sharing a mic with with john you know, backup seeing and you surfing USA. And I remember being like thank god No, no.
Unknown Speaker 1:02:04
And he says it's one reason he was like, you know, the guests out there having fun. He knew the words better than us. So I called him up. But I'm a music lover. I love music, but I can't play an instrument I can't sing. So it's kind of trying to keep the mic, you know, kind of far from my face. But john is not only is he like, hey, let me make this guy's day and get him up here on stage. Like, he reaches down and I keep my phone in my lap at all times, in case I need anything. And you know, seeing in and I got the rock star experience, by the way, it is also so onstage looking in an arena, looking out. It's so cool. It was just the greatest feeling ever doing that whole thing and I look down and John's grabbed my cell phone off my lamp. He's got the Pat. He's like, what's the passcode and I tell him you know, yell it at him and he just starts doing a selfie of us singing in and getting all these guys He is so freakin nasty. Not only to get me up there, he's like, I want you to have something to remember it, but you know, but what's really cool is when it was over, he was like, hang on, you know, and and they did another song. And then backstage we talked for like half an hour sitting there. You know, I'm like talking to Uncle Jesse, this is so cool. We're talking about music and movies and shows and just so much cool stuff and had a lot in common and he's like, what's your email? And I'm like, he wants my email, you know, like, he's not gonna email me. He emailed me and was like, Hey, your stories inspirational, you manifest share. And I was like, you know, heck yeah, that's awesome. And because one of the big things I do is guest speaking, you know, disability, education, drinking and driving and I told him all that stuff and what I was doing at the time with my Masters Agree. And so he you know, he talked about it on the talk and Good Morning America. So it was just incredible my 15 minutes fame like I was, you know, floating in the clouds for a good two or three weeks it was you know, just so hard to believe but we ended up you know, becoming buddies and staying in touch and he is just the NASA's most down to earth to me, you know, he's just, you know, a no is a huge celebrity. But he's just john he's a normal dude. You know, you talk about normal things, but my college roommate has cerebral palsy big Lee. What a big Lee, awesome guy. Era me when I was in college, he told me you'd met john Stamos. I was like, No, he did. And so and he showed me a picture and I knew I remembered it that concert and I was it was at a benefit for children with disabilities. So I kind of knew I was like, hey, this guy's awesome. He's a big advocate for people with disabilities. And yeah, just super Nazca and he is cool nice like, you know he played a cool guy he's cool funniest guy he came the he came with the Beach Boys to the ramen last year last November no two November's ago. And so I got to sing on stage with them again and got to go backstage. I'm sitting back there, you know, backstage in his dressing room hanging out and talking with him. coolest freakin gather. Yes. And so yeah, I feel very fortunate to be able to call him a friend. And what's awesome about john is like, he don't really think of him like he remembers what it is to be a fan and he don't talk about himself within himself as some, you know, big celebrity and, and so that's just Really cool.
Unknown Speaker 1:06:01
Nice. So this is this is my podcast so I get to have the last word on who's the coolest and I have to disagree with you on one point. So it's just john Stamos, his Uncle Jesse, and Henry Winkler is the Fonz and I'm just I'm willing to fight you over that if I have to.
Unknown Speaker 1:06:21
Uncle Jesse did not jump a bunch of shoe did
Unknown Speaker 1:06:25
Yeah, yeah. So
Unknown Speaker 1:06:29
jerell I just want to thank you a whole lot not just for doing your research but for for you know, wanting to share so much and for being a speaker like you said Against Drunk Driving and and just being an example and and sharing your story so that other people can learn from it. So just thank you so much for doing this for us. And, and we look forward to your next paper that comes out.
Unknown Speaker 1:06:52
Yes, Article two and thank you for being interested and helping share this because this stuff is so amazing. Important, it's like people's rice, you know? So that's one big thing. Like you we talked about, like, what do you want to share with the, you know, the the population of people without disabilities. And it is just don't prejudge, don't put people in boxes. You know, ask questions, learn. People are sexy, you know, sexual non ability. And hey, if you see somebody that you think is attractive and they use a walker or a wheelchair, they are a sexual being. Don't count them out, go up and talk to them.
Unknown Speaker 1:07:40
There you go. That is an excellent way to end it right there. Just give a directive to people. All right, Joe, thanks a lot.
Unknown Speaker 1:07:51
Make sure to be one of the first 50 to download a free copy of the full manuscript to see videos of Gerald and other materials. Make sure to follow the landscape podcast on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and LinkedIn. Also, subscribe to the landscape on Apple podcast or your favorite podcast app, and feel free to leave a review. Next episode, I interview the head of the board of the park, one of the most powerful advocacy groups for individuals with intellectual and developmental disabilities in the United States. We'll see you then.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai