In this episode Michele Richmond talk about the importance of working hard and smart as an association lobbyist as well as how she talks to her daughters about current events.
Show your support for the Pink Granite Podcast and join our Leaders Circle by visiting us on Patreon at www.patreon.com/pinkgranite or by visiting PinkGranite.org
Follow us on Social Media:
Instagram @PinkGraniteTX
Facebook @PinkGraniteTX
Twitter @PinkGraniteTX
LinkedIn: Pink Granite
Thank you for listening!
Executive Producer: Amy Whited
Music Composed by Jack Anderson
Editing: Amy Whited
Guest: Michele Richmond
Host: Caitlin Smith
In this episode Michele Richmond talk about the importance of working hard and smart as an association lobbyist as well as how she talks to her daughters about current events.
Show your support for the Pink Granite Podcast and join our Leaders Circle by visiting us on Patreon at www.patreon.com/pinkgranite or by visiting PinkGranite.org
Follow us on Social Media:
Instagram @PinkGraniteTX
Facebook @PinkGraniteTX
Twitter @PinkGraniteTX
LinkedIn: Pink Granite
Thank you for listening!
Executive Producer: Amy Whited
Music Composed by Jack Anderson
Editing: Amy Whited
Guest: Michele Richmond
Host: Caitlin Smith
Hi, this is Caitlin Smith, I'm hosting the Pink Granite Podcast again. But today I have my good friend Michelle Richmond on. And she is the Executive Director of Texas Competitive Power Advocates. And she has a long career at the Texas Legislature and she is going to talk a little bit about her career and her politics and how she separates the two. And I think we might even get a little bit into talking about her daughters and kind of educating and talking to the the next generation about policy and politics especially for women. That sounds good to you, Michelle?
Michele Richmond:Sounds great.
Caitlin Smith:All right. So I was just going to start with with your background. I don't know if you want to start with your your job or sort of your job history. I think it'd be interesting to talk about how you first got interested in working in government or policy.
Michele Richmond:Oh, sure. Strangely enough, I had an amazing government teacher when I was in high school, who, for whatever reason, got me very interested in it to the point that I actually took micro economics as an elective my senior year in high school, just so that I could take another class with her. Because she was so fantastic. And that was kind of an unusual thing for me. And I was just fascinated by it. And so when I went to when I went to college, I came up to UT and didn't really know what I wanted to do. But I ended up working at the Capitol as a Sergeant in the House of Representatives. So I spent, you know, I worked part time there. And I, I went to UT and end up doing a minor in history, and was just fascinated by politics and American politics, and Texas in particular, and went to work straight out of college and at the Capitol. And so I have been working in and around the legislature for gosh, almost 30 years now. Which makes me feel very old and I'm I don't feel like I'm that old.
Caitlin Smith:You're not that old. Yeah, I was gonna say So you started when you were eight?
Michele Richmond:Ah, you're so great. No, I was 19 when I started working at the Capitol.
Caitlin Smith:And I don't know what that means. You said you started as a Sergeant?
Michele Richmond:Yeah, I was kind of a kind of a glorified gopher. And that House Sergeant at Arms keeps order in the House chamber. And they have kids, generally college kids underneath them, that run errands for the members of the House of Representatives and their offices and you know, all kinds of things, whether it's running bills or packet to and from the House floor back and forth between the Senate. But it's kind of a neat job when you're in college, because you get to know the members of the House, you get to know their staffs. And you kind of get to work around the Capitol. So it was a fun job. And it's kind of interesting, because the current Sergeant at Arms in the house today, served with me as a sergeant when we were in college together. So it's kind of fun. We have we have a special place for each other. Just having done that great, great guy. Yeah, it was fun. So I did that. And I spent that I spent four years working for a member of the Texas House. As as we used to joke running his life and I dealt with the Appropriations Committee because he served on on House Appropriations and public Ed got to do a lot of bills. He was one of those folks that worked with members of both parties, and when dug into the substance of things. So that was a lot of fun for me, I got to do a lot of research. And then I went my lobby for years. And I lobbied for business associations, as well as teacher associations. And then I went, and I worked in the house, for a state agency doing governmental relations. So not lobbying, but you know, still working in and around the legislature and with other agencies and stakeholders and whatnot. And then I had the good fortune to be hired as the executive director at TCPA. So I kind of got to put all of the different things about all of the various jobs that I've had together in one. One job that I absolutely love.
Caitlin Smith:That's great. Do you prefer the sort of lobbying advocating role to to kind of what you've done and running a stash for representative or working in the state agency?
Michele Richmond:I, I love the policy stuff. I like working for an association. And I really like that I can take a position on issues, which you cannot do when you work for state agency. So I really like this because we can take a position on things and we can advocate one way or another, which is a lot of fun for me. So I do very much enjoy that I used to get asked, Well, you know where where are you on this bill? When I worked at the agency? And I would say well, I work for an agency, we don't take positions. And I don't know, but are you more? Are you more for it? Or more against it? I would say I'm neutral. And I work for an agency. But are you more for neutral or more against neutral? I'd say no, I'm neutral, neutral.
Caitlin Smith:I don't know what that means more for neutral or against neutral.
Michele Richmond:No, I'm, I'm neutral, neutral. We don't have a position.
Caitlin Smith:It's like the character chart where you're like lawful, neutral, or lawful evil or whatever. Yeah, I'm staying the true neutral.
Michele Richmond:So it's nice to be able to say no, we are for this or we are not. Or we are against this or you know, we haven't taken a position.
Caitlin Smith:Yeah. For other women or men, too, who might want to be lobbyists. What do you think are the essential, essential skill set for that? I know, you mentioned liking to research and I know you like to research. And I know you like to advocate as well.
Michele Richmond:Good communication, obviously. You know, I've had people say, you know, oh, well, what do you do? And I say I talked to people for a living, I communicate for a living. And so I think that being able to communicate in a very succinct fashion is important, I think being able to distill subjects that are complex into something that is really easy to understand. Because especially, you know, we work in the electric industry. And so those are very complex technical issues. And if you aren't working in that day today, you know, we deal with a lot of acronyms, I like to joke, you know, I need to be able to talk for the real people in the room, not the people that have been doing this for 30 years. And so really putting it into a digestible form that people can understand. And I also think, being able to be very upfront with people, one of the hallmarks of good batter and different has always been that I will, I will not only tell someone what our position is, but I'll be really clear about what the people that are against it are going to say about it, because I don't want someone to be caught off guard. I'm also going to tell somebody how it impacts their district, and whether it's a good thing for my position or not, because the bottom line is they're going to find out the reality of the issues regarding that bill or that that situation, and I want to be able to tell them the full truth about that. So I think that's an important characteristic, at least.
Caitlin Smith:I think so too. You know, I work with a lot of different clients. And when they bring a new issue to me to work on, that's usually the first thing I do is find out who's opposed to it. And why. Because I think that really helps, you know, advocate for it and find out if it's even a viable thing to advocate for.
Michele Richmond:Absolutely.
Caitlin Smith:That was a lot of good information. I maybe will ask what your husband thinks because I had a significant other and at one point I said, Do you even know what they do for a living and He kind of threw his hands up in the air and said, it's all acronyms. And and I, you know, to be fair, I thought that was an okay answer. Like you have a good point.
Michele Richmond:Oh, yeah, hey, I mean, I think he sees that more and more now. I think at first it, you know, especially, you know, now in the time of COVID, you know, I think it's changed substantially. At first, when we were first dating, it was, wow, you have a lot of work happy hours, and trying to explain that, really, a lot of business gets done over happy hour, and then it's not just, you know, it's not just going to a meeting, it's also building rapport and relationships, and, you know, some of the relationships I have, have spanned, you know, 25 years. And, and that's a good thing. So, and sometimes, sometimes it's, it's not necessarily that you're going to talk business every time, but it's, it's, you know, getting to know people and understanding what they go through and building a relationship with them. I think that's important.
Caitlin Smith:I think so too, you talked about communication being one of the skills you need. And that's something I think about a lot, too, I think, you know, it's really important, what I try to do is communicate the way the other person likes to. And then Luckily, there are some people whose preferences to communicate a happy hour. So that works out well for us. But you know, some people like email and phone and text, and I think that makes a big difference when you're advocating if you'll even just meet that person, the way they like to be communicated with.
Michele Richmond:I think that's key. And, you know, reading the room is important. I've watched people, whether they're testifying at a state agency, or in front of the legislature, and it, it absolutely kills me when I see somebody who's just not reading their audience. And it may be somebody who has prepared this fantastic speech that they've been dying to give and are practicing. But just are not reading the fact that the people in front of them have been listening to the same type of testimony for hours, and are ready to get out of there. And they're just not helping their cause. And sometimes it's better just to say, you know, me too, I appreciate your time and you know, and I urge to support this bill, or I urge you to, you know, oppose this or you don't have to say everything that you've prepared, but revise and improvise based on what you see happening and reading the people that you are trying to communicate with. Because while you might have this great speech prepared, that you've practiced, and you want to get across, that might not be what is needed in order to do the best that you can for your purpose at the time.
Caitlin Smith:I agree with that. And I'm wondering if you have any advice for people to do that? You know, I tried to do that, I'm not one for prepared speeches or prepared remarks, but I'll usually have an outline, but if by the time they get to me in the meeting, or my hearing, and things have been said, I kind of condense it. Or somebody has a follow up question, I try to be prepared. But I've seen a lot of people who just need that preparation, and have a harder time kind of thinking on their feet adjusting, summarizing maybe even adapting to arguments they weren't expecting in or questions they weren't expecting. Do you have advice on on how to get better at that?
Michele Richmond:Um, I think some of it is remember that you're talking to real people, they may have titles in front of their names, but at the end of the day, they are real people that put their, you know, pants on one foot at a time, just like the rest of us do. They want to be communicated with and talked with as opposed to read to. I see a lot of people get up and read a speech that they've prepared. And I feel like the reception from members of the legislature is not nearly as good from people that read to them. In fact, some of them will say I'm very capable of reading and I don't need you to read to me. I can read the testimony that you've provided it. I think if you get up there and you talk to them and you speak from the heart, especially if you're if you're a paid lobbyist, I think that there's a different expectation, if you are a member of an association that's coming in to communicate how this is going to impact your business or you know, a constituent that's coming in to talk about how a potential change change is going to impact your business or your family. There's a different set of standards for your communication with the legislature than there is for somebody like you or me, who is paid to be there. And so I think that those are the people that do better when I just speak to them from the heart, I think they're given a lot of difference and lee way. I think that when folks like us get up there, and we don't read the room, it's not received very well, because we are expected in our profession to be able to do that and to improvise and revise what we're going to say, based on what we've heard before us, based on the questions that are being asked by the members of the committee that we're addressing. And if we can't do that, then probably we should look to find other jobs.
Caitlin Smith:That make sense. So we jumped in a lot about what we actually do. But I was wondering if you could tell us more about your current role with TCPA. So you're executive director of organization called Texas Competitive Power Advocates.
Michele Richmond:So I am the Executive Director for a great association that represents basically the large thermal generators and the Electric Reliability Council of Texas. So the competitive area of Texas, it's the large generators that power the grid. And so these are competitive wholesale market participants that, that sell power to power your home and your business. And, you know, they are the reliable resources that when ERCOT says, I need you to turn on, they turn on and when, you know, the demand isn't there, they can turn off. And, you know, we're not dependent on whether the the wind is blowing or not.
Caitlin Smith:So probably varies, but what so what's your role like day to day? I'm sure it's different every day. It does. It varies. The somebody jokingly, tongue in cheek said, I heard the nerds because my folks are extremely bright. They are very technical, in their expertise on how the market works. I do the day to day operations of the association from the mundane, you know, paying bills and administrative functions like that. But I also, I report to the board of directors. So I'm a registered lobbyist, and I lobby on behalf of the Association, whether it's at the legislature, I, I advocate at the Public Utility Commission and work with the staff and the commissioners, I file comments when they Association has determined that they want to file comments in a project or rulemaking or even a contested case that we've gotten involved in. I am on many, many of the subcommittees and workgroup meetings at ERCOT, because those are issues that impact our members and the market in general. And so I work with the other market participants and stakeholders to, you know, work on whatever the issue is, whether it's negotiating on language for some type of rulemaking, put presentations together, we've done a lot of market one on one presentations for members of the Legislature and their staffs. I'm kind of a jack of all trades when it comes to the association and a one person show but you know, I'm lucky in that I have a fantastic contract lobbyists that that does a lot with me. And so my members are also really great about information and just, you know, all of that. So I try to make their life easier. Yeah. What is the most rewarding part of your job?
Michele Richmond:That I work for great people.
Caitlin Smith:That's what everyone says.
Michele Richmond:No, it's true.
Caitlin Smith:I don't mean that I don't believe you work for great people. But the people who love their jobs, I find that it's because they like who they work with and who they work for.
Michele Richmond:I have had experiences where I I have worked for people who have been not so pleasant and you spend an hour inordinate amount of time at work, or just working and right now you're at work all the time, right?
Caitlin Smith:Yes, yes.
Michele Richmond:And so when you work with people that are good people that are just wonderful people to work with and work for, it makes it a completely different experience. And quite honestly, it makes you want to work harder for them. And so I just, I feel very lucky that I get to work for, you know, people who are genuine, like good people, they themselves are very hard working, and they are very supportive of me and my role and very appreciative and encouraging and it, it makes me want to work harder for them.
Caitlin Smith:Cool. What's the most challenging part of your role?
Michele Richmond:Being a one person show? And, you know, I think probably their biggest criticism of me at times is that I sometimes don't turn off the work. And so, I think that the most challenging thing is putting the phone down or putting the laptop away, and especially at home and not, not being constantly at work. And just sometimes feeling spread thin and realizing that you can't be everywhere all the time. And, and being okay with that.
Caitlin Smith:Yeah. It's hard for me to, I think that's hard when you're a one person show too right? Because you don't you have a board, but you don't necessarily have a manager, someone you check in with every day to say, you know, today, I'm not okay, I'm spread too thin, I need to take a break. And it's hard to tell yourself that.
Michele Richmond:Mm hmm.
Caitlin Smith:All right. This is gonna be fun. Can you describe a time you knew you were good at your job? It can be this job. It can be any of the past jobs?
Michele Richmond:Um, gosh...
Caitlin Smith:I think I remember a time I knew you were good at your job.
Michele Richmond:Oh, well, good. Then you tell me.
Caitlin Smith:You did testimony for a case, which I it's super nerd stuff. So I won't bore people. But it was a very technical contested case at the Public Utility Commission. And it was, you know, essentially a roomful of lawyers and regulatory people trying to write software code. Maybe not the actual code, but the requirements for it. So it was it got really difficult, I think for everyone, that you you gave some testimony. And I was very impressed.
Michele Richmond:Oh, thank you. That was fun. That was a fun case. That tested my patience. But that was that was a lot of fun. That's the first time I was an expert in a case, too. So that was kind of an interesting experience. But yeah, I enjoyed that. I'm trying to think, I guess there's been different points in my career. And I guess it depends on on what I guess that was one of them. And maybe another was working for different Association and a bill that I was working on was held up because of essentially two members of the legislature who were upset with one another. I know that never happens, right? And it was the end of session. And the the chairman of the committee, where the bill was, had just had his last desk meeting. And I pulled him off the floor. And he said, "Well, don't worry, don't worry, I'll get it out." And I said, "Well, you just had your last desk meeting." And he said, "Well, you know, that's so and so's bill." And I said, "Yes." And he said, "Well, he's got mining committee," and I said, "Do you want me to go ask him to let your bill out?" "Well, that'd be good." And I said, "Do you want me to do it now, or do you want me to wait until we're on the playground at recess?" And it was kind of sarcastic. He said,"I promise you I'll get I'll get the bill out." And I said,"Well times a ticking." And he said, "I promise, I promise" and I said, "Okay, well we'll see." And literally, as I was walking back to my office, my cell phone rang and it was that particular chairman and he called and he said, "I just I want you to know, I'm going to call a desk meeting for your bill." And I said, "well, seeing is believing." And, and he did. And my bill was signed into law. And at the end of that session, so I felt like that that was a pretty good indicator that maybe I was pretty good at my job, then.
Caitlin Smith:I think so. So did you get the other bill out of committee?
Michele Richmond:I didn't have to at that point, wasn't really worried about it.
Caitlin Smith:I love what you said, because sometimes I'm in meetings or hearings, and I start to wonder, do they really believe that much in or against this issue? Or do they just not like the other person?
Michele Richmond:Oh, it's no, it was it was absolute personality issue. And I mean, I got upset because I was like, this is good policy. And you know, it's good policy.
Caitlin Smith:Mm hmm.
Michele Richmond:Ah, but yeah, that was fun.
Caitlin Smith:I like how you handled that. One of the things I wanted to discuss with you was we went through your career a little bit, and I believe you've worked for elected officials on both sides of the aisle. You and I have talked one on one. And you're a,
Michele Richmond:Yeah. I think you classify yourself as a true independent. I do.
Caitlin Smith:And an issue based voter. So I was wondering if you would talk a little bit about that. And I don't know, if that's how you separate that from your job, or how you approach being completely independent and issue based?
Michele Richmond:Um, yeah, I think that there are there issues that are important to me, that I, I do a lot of research, whether it's, um, you know, for work, or, personally, when I'm looking at candidates and I vote, I don't I don't think I've ever voted a straight ticket ever. I vote for candidates of both sides, based on what they stand for. And, you know, the district that I live in at the time, and how that's going to impact where I live and my family. That being said, there have been times that I have worked for somebody who has positions on things that do not jive with my personal viewpoint. And the bottom line, I think, is that when I'm getting paid to work for that person, my my personal viewpoint is irrelevant. I can I can make my personal viewpoint known if about at the ballot box, or in whatever volunteer work I do. But as long as I am doing a job, I'm going to do that with 150% effort. And my personal viewpoint on it absolutely does not matter. So I guess the way I've always approached it is I check my personal viewpoints at the door. And I find working for somebody that I'm working for them. And their agenda is my agenda.
Caitlin Smith:Mm hmm.
Michele Richmond:And so that's just that's how I've always approached it. And it's, it served me well. I can honestly say that there's probably been fewer than a handful of times where I've had massive conflict. And I've been pretty judicious in picking where I go career wise. And so you know, I have not been in a situation where I would have to worry that my morals were being compromised or anything like that. But But yeah, I think that you know, it's it's not my job is to do my job. And I think I'm I'm very fortunate that I I have a job right now that is perfectly in keeping with my viewpoint. And it's pretty easy from that point.
Caitlin Smith:That's what I was, you, you went ahead and answered it. I was going to ask if you ever had a time where that was especially challenging to keep it separate. You said less than a handful?
Michele Richmond:Yeah, less than a handful of times. And it's been a long time.
Caitlin Smith:Yeah.
Michele Richmond:It's been a very long time.
Caitlin Smith:So going back to your personal approach to politics, so I don't know that I've ever heard someone else say they've never voted the straight ticket.
Michele Richmond:Really?
Caitlin Smith:Have you?
Michele Richmond:You know, I don't know. I don't know that I've ever really talked about it with anyone. For the most part. I know. Like my husband, and I've talked about it. He never voted a straight ticket either.
Caitlin Smith:Really?
Michele Richmond:Yeah.
Caitlin Smith:Even before he was your husband, he never voted a straight ticket?
Michele Richmond:No.
Caitlin Smith:Huh. Cool. Yeah. Yeah, I was wondering how rare that was, I think for you, a lot of it is that you really enjoy doing that research.
Michele Richmond:I do. I'm kind of a nerd that way. And I and I'm totally fine with being a political nerd. I think most of us in this in this business, probably are to some extent. But I do enjoy I enjoy doing the research and and looking into what's true, and what's not all of that I think I probably get most frustrated when I hear people parroting sound bites and having absolutely no idea what they're talking about. And so I get somewhat impatient with that. But that's probably because I do look into it.
Caitlin Smith:Yeah.
Michele Richmond:And so that's frustrating.
Caitlin Smith:Yeah, that was gonna be my follow-up question is kind of how do you reconcile that with the average voter who, who probably isn't super excited about doing research on each issue?
Michele Richmond:You know, I, I really...
Caitlin Smith:Do have advice on making them maybe more accessible, or seemingly more accessible for somebody like that?
Michele Richmond:I think that the people that actually want to educate themselves can do that. And I mean, for me, I try and provide information and if I've got it, and so the people that are interested in doing that, I think will take advantage of it and look at it. And there are also people who are only interested in information that supports whatever their viewpoint or position or candidate says or is or does. And so those people probably aren't going to change their thought process regardless. And, you know, that's fine, too. I guess I would say, if you can look at somebody and be able to articulate on your own policy issues, that are a reason for why you would support that individual. I can totally respect that. If you're unable to articulate what policies with actual facts that cause you to support somebody. And you're just going to parrot some soundbite that has no basis in reality, then I'm probably not going to engage in that conversation for very long. Because it's not a very intelligent conversation.
Caitlin Smith:I don't know what I should add to that. I will say I've been shocked recently, at how many people I don't know, what a fact is, based on what an opinion is.
Michele Richmond:I agree.
Caitlin Smith:And it's fine if you agree with somebody else's opinion. And it's a fact that they said that, but because they said their opinion doesn't make a fact. And that's something that baffles me.
Michele Richmond:I recently said to somebody, "You are correct. We are all entitled to our own opinions. However, we are not entitled to our own facts."
Caitlin Smith:That's interesting.
Michele Richmond:Facts are important. And they are what they are.
Caitlin Smith:I'll ask you this because I was asked this when I had this conversation with someone else. How do you define what a fact is?
Michele Richmond:Independently confirmed, verifiable. I want to be able to, to see it.
Caitlin Smith:My answer was data Yeah, I had a one word answer and said it's data.
Michele Richmond:Well, I mean, it's data when it's, you know, a hard number. But I would also say a fact is, you know, a legal transcript of somebody saying something, or a video, unedited and undoctored, you turn on the news and somebody doctored something, and it's getting ridiculous. So I would also say, those are those I would consider fax. But yes, generally data, although you can pick up a newspaper, most people don't do that or turn on a computer. And people twist data in all different ways to try and make it say what they want it to say, as well so.
Caitlin Smith:So, you talked about trying to share the facts with people and put the information out there. And I don't know that I've said this about anyone else. I really like when you and your husband engage on Facebook with people because you do try to put independent facts or data out there. And then you get all kinds of comments, and I think you tend to handle them very patiently. And I'm just wondering what what that process is like for you? Do you find that rewarding or frustrating? Are you guys doing that because, you know, you really just want the information out there? Or are you getting some of these policy discussions out of it that you're you're enjoying that kind of feeds a little bit of your interest in policy and research?
Michele Richmond:Um, I, okay. Do I enjoy it? I think to some extent insomnia...
Caitlin Smith:I've, you know, almost picked fights with with Jason's commenters in the middle of the night so...
Michele Richmond:So I think it's an exercise in frustration at times. There are certainly days where I am, I do the, you know, okay, take 10 deep breaths, and sit on your hands and don't respond immediately. And in order for me to be a kind and patient respondent. Otherwise, I will say things that are not nice. And there are times where people are very rude and obnoxious. And I think my favorite is when they degenerate into name calling. And, and then I just kind of say, Well, you know, I wish you the best of luck. And it's too bad that we can't engage in a respectful and intelligent conversation.
Caitlin Smith:Yeah.
Michele Richmond:But but I've also learned that people that start to go into name calling, generally do it because they don't have any information, or intelligent statements with which to engage, you know, that was really the best they can do in terms of conflict. And so I would prefer that somebody to say, "Well, I don't know that I have anything to say. So I'm just going to end this conversation" than to go into name calling. And I'm never going to turn and look at you and say, "well, you're, you're an idiot for this or that."
Caitlin Smith:Yeah,
Michele Richmond:I don't really understand that. Why do I do that? Maybe I'm a glutton for punishment. I honestly, I think it's more of I have preached to my daughters that if you see something that's untrue, you should try and correct it and educate. And if you see something that's wrong part of being a leader is to stand up and say, no that's not right when you see it, and if I don't do that myself, then I'm not really modeling what I'm preaching to my kids. And so I guess at the end of the day, the last thing I want is to be a hypocrite when it comes to my children.
Caitlin Smith:Yeah.
Michele Richmond:So if I expect my kids who are 10 and almost 13, to stand up and be leaders in their own right, then I need to do it myself.
Caitlin Smith:Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up, because that is something I wanted to talk to you about. I don't know that we've had really an interviewer or podcast about this yet. So Pink Granite does promote women in policy and politics. And we talk a lot about leadership for women. And it's something I'm pretty passionate about. You have two young daughters. So I have kind of wanted to talk about how you, you pass things on to them, because you've had very successful career, engage with policy and politics lot in specific ways, their work, and through all that research. And you've had leadership roles. So I was wondering what lessons you pass on to them, and how you kind of promote that next generation.
Michele Richmond:I think it's kind of just in that everyday way we live, for the most part, the conversations we have they, they have just been raised with an expectation that they stand up to what they say that's wrong, that they do what they know in their heart is right, that they not follow the crowd that they be a leader, I point things out to them, when I see it. So whether it's in life, whether it's on TV, we have discussions on a regular basis. They don't really love watching the news, but they do occasionally watch the news with us.
Caitlin Smith:I don't love watching the news.
Michele Richmond:I don't always love watching the news either. But you know, we'll watch, we'll watch movies together. And we will talk about that, whatever the theme is, in the movie that kind of has some type of moral lesson to it. And we have boundaries, I'm just very upfront with them about the boundaries and rules and our house and why they exist. I guess the way I live my life, I like that I'm independent. I want them to be independent. They know that no matter what they choose in life, whether it's career or relationships, or anything else, they have my support, and love. And so I feel like that's bringing to them to be able to be themselves and be true to themselves. And so my, my older daughter in particular is tiny and much tinier than any of her friends. But Lord, if I could bottle her self esteem and sell it, I would be a very wealthy woman. Because she, she has not a care in the world, she will, she will absolutely get in somebody's face if they go after one of her friends. I mean, she is as feisty as can be. And I love that she's that way. And but she's also very respectful. My younger daughter is the same way. And so you know, when all of the social justice issues came up this spring, and quite honestly, are still ongoing. We had discussions about that. And even just the mask issues with Coronavirus, and we've talked about leadership and what that means. And I'll point things out to them. And so, my my daughters have both stood up for friends of theirs before and will continue to do so. Because that's just ingrained in them. And I don't know that it's really a second thought. It's just the who they are the way they are. They both want to go and do different things in life. And their, the mantra is great, work hard and be the best, whatever that is added. And so you know, I we have, you know, argument arguments and debates and whatnot. I'm sure we'll have many more. Especially, you know, we're entering the teenage years and that's going to be a joy.
Caitlin Smith:Yep.
Michele Richmond:Yeah, no, that's interesting, because I think a lot of it is just speaking up for yourself or speaking up for somebody else who, who can't. And in preparing for this, I know we talked to Amy whose daughter's much younger and she has an unusual name and Amy told us a story where she said "you're allowed to to correct people when they pronounce your name wrong." And and you know, in talking about your older daughter you said, she's very feisty, but still respectful. But I imagine that's kind of a hard thing that you do need to be explicit about with young kids is, you know, you should push back and speak up to yourself for yourself when, when you can, but when is it appropriate. Well, can you tell a grown up, they're wrong? That kind of thing. I think there's that. But I also think there's, you know, teaching your child to advocate for themselves is also really important. And teaching them to solve their own problems. And I think sometimes we get into this rut of trying to solve the problem for them. And I remember my daughter getting into trouble for hitting her sister. Pretty basic, right? And she came, she got into trouble. And she came out and she was, and she was crying. And she said, I'm sorry that I got angry. And my response to her was, you're not in trouble, because you got angry. And you're, you know, anger is a totally normal emotion, and you're perfectly entitled to get angry, you're in trouble because you hit your sister. So what could you do in the future? To be angry and not get in trouble?
Caitlin Smith:Yes.
Michele Richmond:And so she sat there, and she kind of brainstormed? Well, I could do this. And I was like, well, that, you know, that's a that's an idea. How do you think that would play out? And she would sit there and talk about how she thought that would play out? And what, what the response would be from her sister, or what the response would be for me, and ultimately, would she get in trouble for the action at the end of it. And so it was one of those letting her kind of figure out some ways to solve her own problem. And I think that helps them to kind of develop some confidence, and self esteem that they can do it on there, and that they're not these helpless creatures. And I think that's important. And so when something comes up at school, even now she's in middle school, I'll say to her, do you want me to email your teacher or your principal, and her response to me is Mom, I can take care of it myself. I'm like great. That's awesome. Cool. So I mean, she's, she's kind of learned to be her own advocate, and, you know, my younger daughter is, is on track to do the same thing. So, you know, kind of giving them that, that structure and that guidance to let them understand that they can, they they're totally capable of solving these things themselves. And being leaders and and advocating for themselves. They just need some guidance on how to do that, and what's okay and what's not. Okay.
Caitlin Smith:I think it's also the example that that you've set, you know, I think if she hits her sister, and you get mad, and she gets in trouble, and that's that she just remembers mom getting mad at me. But if she sees an instance, where you say, Oh, I'm so angry about this, and here's the way I'm going to react. I think that's something that then she remembers instead and impacts her for the rest of her life.
Michele Richmond:Well, that she also knows that I do think sometimes when I, you know, that are not right. And so you're right.
Caitlin Smith:I mean, you're always perfectly handling your anger I assume?
Michele Richmond:Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, absolutely. No, yeah. No, I'm, I'm a human. I'm flawed.
Caitlin Smith:You can tell her you did that. Just to show her the example of what not to do. I did this for you guys.
Michele Richmond:See, I'm helping you.
Caitlin Smith:I knew the right thing to do. But I wanted to demonstrate.
Michele Richmond:I will go and apologize and tell them, you know. Yeah, my mommy lost it. Mommy didn't handle business so good that way.
Caitlin Smith:Mommy is not perfect. That's so funny. I don't have kids, but I was the older one. And my parents were a lot more strict with me. And I kind of asked them, you know, why? Why are the rules different for my younger sister and they're like, well, we didn't know what we were doing the first time. I think that's, you know, helpful to be honest about.
Michele Richmond:Oh, for sure. I think the first time they're like this delicate flower although I don't know for some reason. I wasn't like that. with mine, it was that I remember shock and horror when her pacifier fell on the ground and I picked it up and put it in my mouth to clean it and then put it back in her mouth. Like I think it was my cousin that was absolutely horrified and eh - she's gonna be fine, you know, just builds her immune system. It's all good.
Caitlin Smith:They're gonna be fine.
Michele Richmond:Oh, for sure. I mean they're pretty resilient. It's amazing to me. But they're, they're definitely interesting. They're their own little creatures.
Caitlin Smith:That's pretty fun. All right, I'm gonna go back to maybe more job related or fun questions?
Michele Richmond:Sure. Yeah.
Caitlin Smith:What could you never do your job without? You can never do your job without blank.
Michele Richmond:My phone.
Caitlin Smith:That's a very literal answer.
Michele Richmond:It is.
Caitlin Smith:I couldn't do my life without my phone. Probably.
Michele Richmond:Yeah, my phone. I I still can't believe there was a time where we didn't have cell phones. But good Lord, I mean, I, whether it's for email, or text, or, you know, the actual phone, I this is my lifeline for so many things job related, especially, you know, in, in a field where you have to communicate with so many people.
Caitlin Smith:I was watching a Netflix, romantic comedy. And the main character was like a lawyer who works too much. And she was on a date and describing her day and she said, I wake up, I turn my phone on, I do emails before I even get out of bed and go to the office for 12 hours, I come home, finish the work I didn't do at the office, and then get in bed still with my phone. And I almost turn you know, on it's like, this is too real. I need to turn this off.
Michele Richmond:Yeah.
Caitlin Smith:Ah, I hadn't been planning to ask you this. But I want to, and I don't know what the answer is going to be. If you weren't in this job, what would you be? I think you might just say this is the only job I would ever do a policy or, or government job. Maybe you'll surprise us.
Michele Richmond:I don't know. I mean, lottery winner maybe?
Caitlin Smith:Is that an occupation?
Michele Richmond:I don't think so. Plus, I think you have to actually play the lottery to win so that that kind of negates that for me. I don't know, I cannot imagine what else I would do. Honestly, other than something like this. And the job I'm currently in takes all of the things that I've liked about all of my other jobs, and puts it into one job without all of the things I didn't like. So that's kind of amazing.
Caitlin Smith:There's nothing you don't like about your job.
Michele Richmond:Honestly, no, there really isn't. I'm really, really, really lucky right now.
Caitlin Smith:That's great.
Michele Richmond:Super lucky.
Caitlin Smith:That's awesome.
Michele Richmond:Yeah, I'm very, very lucky.
Caitlin Smith:So either this or lottery winner.
Michele Richmond:Yeah. Yeah.
Caitlin Smith:Lottery winner does require some research. I had some friends from law school. And for whatever reason, this was a topic they like to talk about, like, what would they do if they won the lottery? They had thought about logistics. They were like, Well, you'd have to take a car that's not your license plate to go pick up the money. And really, they had thought about all these logistics. And I was like, Oh, interesting.
Michele Richmond:So I, again, I'd have to buy a ticket in order to even start contemplating the logistics. And I mean, other than, you know, we do scratch offs and, and stockings at Christmas time, but that's about the extent of our lottery participation. So, you know, I doubt I'm going to be a lottery winner. I don't know what else I would want to do. Honestly, I have no idea.
Caitlin Smith:Well you, I mean, you probably don't need to know, hopefully sides this question.
Michele Richmond:Yeah. I think I've seen I've seen memes that, you know, when we were all asked, what, five years ago what we would be doing and five years none of us got that answer right. So there you go. Non of us thought that we'd be in the middle of a pandemic.
Caitlin Smith:I don't think so. I don't think that far in advance though. I think just the way... Well, the way my brain works with a little bit of anxiety, is I kind of need to take things in about two week chunks.
Michele Richmond:Yeah, I feel like there's like, it's almost like a strategic plan. There's week increments and month increments and year increments and then the overall goal. The overall goal is at some point to retire to a beach house in Costa Rica. That's the overall goal. When that happens, I've no idea.
Caitlin Smith:But that's not a second career. That's retirement.
Michele Richmond:That is retirement. Yes, that is retirement. That is definitely not a second career.
Caitlin Smith:Alright, um, two last questions. We talked a lot about your, or I talked a lot about your Facebook because I like it and the way you distribute news and have conversations. What is your favorite place to get the news? And and what's your favorite social media app?
Michele Richmond:Oh, God, I am becoming very hateful about social media lately, just because I feel like there's so much venom being spewed on it. I get a lot of news, believe it or not from Twitter. But it's based on who you follow. And I follow a lot of different news outlets. And folks that I think are reputable.
Caitlin Smith:Mm hmm. That's true. You know, I've done less legislative work than you. But I've worked two or three sessions. And when I started, I kind of asked people, what's the best way to keep up? And they all said, Twitter. And then I tell people that and a lot of times people are kind of disappointed, but go along with it.
Michele Richmond:And then I guess, for entertainment, and probably Instagram, because there's some hilarious memes out there and videos and whatnot. It always makes me laugh.
Caitlin Smith:Mm hmm.
Michele Richmond:So I enjoy it. Especially if there's one about a dog. I'm all in. Because you know, I love I love dogs. So funny video about a dog. I'm in.
Caitlin Smith:That's what I was gonna say. I think mine's Instagram because I like pictures of dogs.
Michele Richmond:I know that the quickest way to make you happy is that picture of a cute dog.
Caitlin Smith:Mm hmm. All right, I think I don't think we went over. But I think we got a lot of good conversation. And so I'm wondering, do you have any sort of closing thoughts or anything you want to plug?
Michele Richmond:Vote. Whatever you do, vote and we have an extra week of early voting in Texas. So there's no excuse not to. That would be my my closing plea to everybody, please. It's your constitutional right. Please exercise it.