Alejandrina Guzman, Interviewed by Caitlin Smith

Welcome to Season Two of the Pink Granite Podcast!

In this episode, disability rights activist Alejandrina Guzman talks to Caitlin Smith about the nuances of supporting the disability community in Texas. Alejandrina's impressive resume includes being elected as the first Latina, and first disabled Student Government President at the University of Texas. Additionally, she has worked on numerous campaigns as well as an intern with the Mexican American Legislative Caucus.

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Thank you for listening!

Guest: Alejandrina Guzman
Host: Caitlin Smith
Editing: Amy Whited
Music:  "Only the Brave Run Wild" Sounds Like Sander
Voice Talent:  Sarah Keats
Executive Producer: Amy Whited

Transcript

Caitlin Smith: 0:25

Hi, I'm Caitlin Smith, and I am guest hosting this Pink Granite Podcast. Today I am here with Alejandrina Guzman. And we're gonna talk about your life and your work and the calls to action and things that you are passionate about.

Alejandrina Guzman: 0:44

Thank you so much. I'm excited to be here.

Caitlin Smith: 0:47

You were your former UT student body president and you're the first Latina student body president at UT. And I think the first Big 12 student body president with a physical disability. And you currently work for the Democratic, Texas Democratic Party as the people with disabilities constituency organizer.

Alejandrina Guzman: 1:10

Yes.

Caitlin Smith: 1:11

And so we met before, when I did a panel for a conference, and I think we were talking about being civically engaged. And we were connected by my my friend and your friend, Henry Kellison, who has worked on several campaigns, and I believe you met him in that capacity. But when we spoke before, you were really talking about, kind of how to turn the passions and the interests of women specifically, but all people might already have into sort of political activism and using that as their entryway to get engaged. I think the point of the discussions we had before, which are still relevant is sort of breaking down those barriers to entry for people to start getting more politically active or engaged with their community, because I think a lot of people would like to raise their voice and raise their participation, but don't know how to. And then I know, for today, you wanted to talk about sort of calls to action, as well as Disability Justice. And so I know a lot of these interviews, we kind of start with, What's your job? How did you get into the Capitol and policy? But I think with you, it might make more sense to start with your background? And how you sort of turn that in to, to what you do now?

Alejandrina Guzman: 2:39

Yes, thank you so much, first of all, for giving me an opportunity to be here and tell my my story. For me, I am from a small town in Texas, called Azle, which is by Fort Worth. And I growing up, my parents were empowering. They supported me and I was lucky to have that. I'm the oldest of four kids. And I have three younger brothers. And so I think a lot of what I grew up with, and the way, you know, I was taught how to, to propel myself forward was because of my family. And I actually didn't think I was going to leave Azle at all. Just because I have a disability. I'm physically disabled. And for me, I depended a lot on my mom. And so when college came up, I was not really considering leaving my hometown. It never really seemed like an option. Until my senior year of high school. And we had at my high school, we had a college advisor, the first time we've ever had a person in that position. And so because of her because of her she, man, I cannot thank her enough because she had asked me at one point when I actually when I first met, where I wanted to go to college, and I named a few colleges around the area. And I guess she somehow saw my hesitation, asked me again, and I said, Well, you know, maybe UT Austin but I'm not really sure. And she said, Okay, we'll make it happen. And that was like, you know, the start of everything. And to kind of wrap things in context. I didn't really understand much of the political sphere before getting to Austin I was not as involved I was not as politically engaged in in any form really, and now, you know, looking, looking back, and now it's like, wow, I really focused on, you know, surviving in Azle. And by that, I mean that a lot of things that is common for disabled people growing up, you know, is this idea that you have to present yourself as, like, nice or you have to present yourself as palatable to other people. And that gives you some room to be yourself and, and kind of this whole idea of like, inspiring people or motivating. And, and, you know, fast forward to now is like, Oh my goodness, like that is not, not okay. And I've learned a lot to, to, to realize that. Disability and, and disability pride, you know, comes from different angles. And I mentioned that now because, you know, once I got to UT, I started understanding more of the physical barriers I faced, I started understanding the state I mean not state, the stereotypes of disabled people. And then after leaving UT, it's when another wave of realization came to move that, you know, this world is, it's not the best for disabled people. And not because, you know, there's no room to grow, or there's no room to, you know, make society better. It's just the fact that underlying all these foundational systems and ableism and, and, you know, combining those different parts of my life, you know, Azle, and then UT, and then landing at the Capitol, and now with Texas Democratic Party, it has all molded me into seeing the world differently. And, and being unapologetically disabled.

Caitlin Smith: 7:07

That is really interesting. And I wanted to ask you a stupid question. And I'm going to because you gave me entryway, I think you're talking about a systemic bias towards you, you called it ableism. And so you in your bio, I think it says physical disability when when I read off, you know, first student body with a physical disability, and you describe it in a different a couple different ways. I think Henry introduced us and said, use the term differently abled. So can you can you kind of walk me through that or say, if you have a preference on disabled differently abled? How we, I don't want to even say how we should refer to that, because I probably, you know, it's probably each person's personal preference. Right?

Alejandrina Guzman: 7:57

Right. So, um, this is such. Wow, I'm really glad you asked that, because I kind of mentioned in my previous answer that a combination of all, you know, my life experiences has led me to the point where I am today. And what I mean by that is in Azle, the idea was a person with a disability, right? The term I mean, I get to college, and I learned about different labels, the term different labels. And I was like, Wow, that sounds empowering. I'm going to use that. Because, again, the way I grew up, right, is this mindset of like, you can overcome anything, you know, positive attitude and mind over matter. And that is toxic. And, and, and it's toxic. Because it gives this idea that if someone who is disabled, has a bad attitude, it's because, you know, they're not grateful. And so for me, again, growing up in this, this environment of just appreciating everything I have, and, you know, always making sure to have a positive attitude. And, you know, what, if it doesn't work out the first time, that's okay, pick yourself back up and keep moving forward. That isn't the best thing, right? Because, um, you know, let's say something doesn't work out. Yeah, yes. Oh, it's your fault. And it's like, No, no, no, no. Let's pause. Let's look at these systemic and institutional barriers that have, you know, pause or or or created barriers for me, right. And, um, after I left college is when I started learning about disability and and learning about being disabled. And honestly, I, I mean, as part of this, this whole journey of, undoing ableism. Because ableism is so prevalent in our society, even for disabled people, you know, there's there's pieces of survival, there's pieces of thriving, there's pieces of, you know, just making it creating your own space. And sometimes, you know, you run into all these problems. And at least for me, I didn't realize that it was all rooted in ableism and differently abled. Now, I do not identify with that, right. And the bottom line is, again, everyone has their own preference, right? There may be people in the disability community that do identify as differently, like I used to, and there are people in the disability community who prefer people first language, so person with disability. And it's just respecting everybody, but more so really analyzing that, we have to come to terms that, you know, people don't see us as people. And that's problematic in itself.

Caitlin Smith: 11:24

Do you want to talk about the specific work you do now, or it's probably changed recently, or the way you do it, and some of the things you're pushing for might have changed with the pandemic and other current events. So I don't know, where you want to start.

Alejandrina Guzman: 11:42

During UT, my second year, there, my first intense, you know, outward experience with ableism was when I had tried joining a sorority on campus, Latina sorority, and I, you know, went through the whole process, did the application and got to the interview. And then when I found out that I was not accepted, and I kept thinking to myself, but why, why, why, like, I, you know, I feel like I did well, on my interview, I think, you know, I'm cut out to be a part of this organization. And later, through other friends, I learned that I was not accepted because of my wheelchair, and I use my wheelchair have an electric wheelchair. And, to me, like, I was just like, what the heck, right? Like, I, that was just, it was like, my first just intense encounter with like, realizing that no matter how hard I try, no matter how hard I try to, you know, quote, unquote, you know, be the best I can be, you know, get all these accolades, or, you know, etc, whatever that may be. At the end of the day, I'm someone in a wheelchair, and that's a reality, right? Like, I'm not pitying myself. And even if I did, that's fine, too. But the thing is, after that, I was like, Oh, my gosh, no, I, I don't want anyone else to feel this way. And that, that that experience was just kind of like, happened, it's over, you know, and kept on going. Right. Fast forward to Oh, and also during, during my second and third or third year at UT, is when I started getting involved in student activism, and on racial justice, and navigating, you know, what does student advocacy mean? And how can I navigate the spaces I'm in? And by that I mean, the different organizations I was a part of, how can I navigate that to empower other students and empower these different communities on campus, and ultimately, it led to student government, in terms of executive position, and at the time, I saw that, as you know, this is some bureaucracy stuff, right. And, and I understand that by having this title by having this position, I can be at the table and saying, x, y, z demands from student leaders and from student activists. And, you know, we did the campaign, we had platform points, I mean, but imagine local campaign, right. And we had a team, we, we did this whole thing, it was months of work and then down to, to a couple of weeks of like, official campaigning and official voting and all that stuff. I get in to my position. And it was just, it was wild. And and I say that because like, it made me realize that there is so much of the barriers that like, like, where these issues come from, are strategic, and are purposeful, by administrators. And again, as a student, I was like, What the heck is going on? Like, you know, now I'm seeing that part of the system. Because I'm working in the system, who typically occupies the spaces that someone like me, not someone who's a Latina, or a woman, or disabled, or, you know, or at least physically disabled, right? And buy at least is because you can visibly see that, right? I'm not someone like me. And the fact that when I got elected, I was the 10th. Woman, and the whole history of SG to be elected. Like, what does that say? Right? And so it's, again, after I left is when I was like, oh, my goodness, like, there's this, I mean, I made mistakes. And by that, too, is like, I sometimes felt like, you know, how do I see? I made mistakes, by not utilizing the full capacity of the privilege I had. So for example, now, you know, now my work with the Texas Democratic Party. I like that, like I had this experience, because now I'm, again, functioning in an institutional organization, right? They have, they have connections, for example, they have all XYZ, XYZ things, right? And I'm like, Okay, now I'm in this, how can I provide support and advocacy to people outside? You know, what can I provide? That is different from someone else. And that that was all because of us. Because I learned that I learned that, you know, by having my title as President, I could send it to whoever admin I want. I want a meeting to talk about x. And that's what we started doing. We our tactic was first, and by that is like, you know, I'm not just gonna be there in that room with the provost, for example, and say, Hey, this didn't work. This didn't work. No, I'm an initiating No. And then I'm going to bring four to five other students, right? And not tell the admin. And when I get to the meeting, and the students are with me, I'm not the one talking is that because at the end of the day, I had that privilege, that access, and I have to, it took a while but to learn quickly, you know, okay, what can I do? What can I do? I'm not going to speak for other people, because there's other people's fights. And that's the thing is learning. What is your fight? And what is not? When is your position to speak and advocate and when is it not? And when is it not privilege to pass that mic to other people? And when it's not? Which the answer to that one is always. So fast forward to organizing work, it's just that it's like okay, I have, I have some money for my programs that I'm working on. I can partner with different people on the grounds of different community members and provide them money to, you know, provide captioning and I can dive into that maybe later. During this interview, but before and answer is, although student government was absolutely ridiculous, and intense, and just wild all around, I am still lucky and privileged and thankful that I had that opportunity. Because now as I'm out in the quote unquote, real world, I'm seeing, you know, these examples of institutional bias or, you know, systemic oppression, or, you know, strategic ways of, of how higher up people can stop you in projects or can stop you, and they don't, you know, it's not overt. Right? It can be like, pushing back and meeting back in student government days, and then your terms up and nothing ever happened. So just learning a lot about what bureaucracy is, and also working within a system. What does that mean about it just, there's so much just layers and layers and layers of things that, Oh, my gosh, it takes time to realize this. Sometimes it hits you in the face super quickly. And sometimes it's like, oh, that's what it was. Right? Well, what are you working on right now? Right now. As an organizer, I'm working to build grassroots relationships with disabled community members, activists and leaders across Texas. And my position specifically, has never existed in any democratic party before. And so it's pretty intense, because I'm flying the plane while I'm building. Oh, my God, because there's no blueprint to how, you know, at least in in, in this specific environment of a Democratic Party organizing position. There's never been a blueprint, right? Yeah.

Caitlin Smith: 22:23

And that's what I was, I was gonna ask that. So I'm glad you you said you were the first one because I was going to ask if this was something you sort of created, or if you you're following in somebody's footsteps, for lack of a better word.

Alejandrina Guzman: 22:42

No, it's all new. It's all new. And at the same time, I have to remember that a lot of people in the disability community have done this for years and years, right on the ground in a certain position or whatever, right? It's just, it's just fighting for justice. And so I'm lucky enough to have made those relationships and, and connected with, with people I call friends and mentors now, because I, I called them up all the time. And I'm like, look, I'm having a problem with this. What do you think are like, this is one thing, but doesn't sound the best? What should I do? What do you suggest? So I'm, I'm lucky that I have my own community to go to while I navigate this position.

Caitlin Smith: 23:39

I think that's valuable for anybody, though. I mean, that's something I do day to day is call people to ask what they would do in my position, or what they have done. So. So you found what you're doing now, through your background in your passions, and I know you wanted to speak about sort of calls to action, and I don't know exactly what you mean by that. But I think you you feel or felt, felt and continue to feel called to action, because of your circumstances and wanting to represent disabilities, Disability Justice. So I'm wondering if there's a way we can sort of translate that to to other people with other causes sort of that call to action feeling?

Alejandrina Guzman: 24:26

Honestly, I didn't even know like, if you had asked me, like, three years ago, oh, you're gonna or told me three years ago. You're gonna work in disability advocacy? I would have been like, Oh, okay. All right. Like, yeah, I never imagined this. And I say that because again, it took me Oh, man, it took me a long time to understand my own identity of being disabled. And you know what, what means for different people in the disability community. And I'm acknowledging, again that everyone's journey is different from there. And I am, I was just so focused on like, you know, Latina, Nikes, Latinos, Latinas, Latinas. advocacy and people who are undocumented people who are DACA recipients. And I also acknowledge I have privileged in that way, because I am documented. So I ultimately cannot speak for that. But I was just so passionate about like, just making sure that there is equity in everything. And then fast forward to when I got on the campaign with with Henry and my role was PR.

Caitlin Smith: 26:04

Was that Justin Nelson's campaign?

Alejandrina Guzman: 26:06

Yes, the campaign for Justin Nelson for Texas Attorney General. And when I first got on and learning that, you know, there is a ton of work to be done for Spanish speaking communities. I was like, I let like, let me let me do this, you know, and that became my role was just PR for Spanish speaking community. And then I get to the Capitol, and I'm doing tons of awesome policy work, which also I didn't realize was my passion. And I was like, wow, I love this. I love reading these laws and legislations and bills, and like, you know, figuring out what they really say, figuring out, like, who are people being left out of. And that kind of opened the door to disability advocacy, because one of the bills I was in charge of was for underutilized businesses. And that includes the disability community. And I was like, Whoa, like, yes. Like, I'm disabled, like, this is like, let's do this. And I started learning more and more, and then session ends. And I'm like, Whoa, I don't know what I'm gonna do. Yeah, because I was on a on a fellowship program. And

Caitlin Smith: 27:38

Let's talk about that really quick. Yes, we do kind of focused on women at the capital. So can you explain how you got into the capital work and the session?

Alejandrina Guzman: 27:48

Typically, in campaign world, when you get on a campaign, the job cycle is always. So you go from one thing to the next thing to the next thing to the next thing. And I think the campaign was about to end. And I'll say, I'm about to not have a job again. Like, I don't know what I'm gonna do. And one of my, one of my friends sent me the application to the fellowship is called Mexican American Caucus. Oh, my goodness, no, Mexican American Legislative Caucus. And it was a fellowship under them. I applied. And to me, it was like, oh, wow, like I get to be at the Capitol, which is where I was, again, I didn't realize that's what I wanted to talk during. And I think, for me, symbolism was a big piece because I took public transportation. And when I would get to work for Justin's campaign, I would always pass by the Capitol Building, you know, my way there on the bus, and I'd always look out in the eye, and like, someday, someday I'll be there. Because I've never had an internship there anything like that? Oh, because, you know, when I'm on campus, and someone who uses public transportation is disabled and has a wheelchair, like that just added layers of navigating having an interface. I never really had off campus things. Right. Yeah.

Caitlin Smith: 29:21

So do you think the Capitol was sort of symbol of when we were talking about student body president, we were talking about sort of being a part of the system. So is the capital sort of another symbol of being part of a system? Is that what the draw was?

Alejandrina Guzman: 29:39

Um, I think my draw was, I knew from SG experience, that a lot of the a lot of these like, quote unquote, issues and things that students fight for, right? admin, administrators would always say what the policy says, doesn't have it up, and you'd be blocked. Right? You'd be like, Well, how do we change the law? Yeah. And to me, it was like, Oh, wow. Like, I never realized how much policy comes into play for so many things. And when campaign started, I just, you know, learning about Justin's positions on what he was running for, and everything, you know, again, it ties back to post. And then I see the capitol I'm be like well, I, you know, I always wanted to be there. But I don't know what that means. And what that looks like, I have no idea if I'll even be there in the next year, but someday, and then my friend sends me an application. Okay, I'm doing it. Like, let me do this. Somehow, I'm so lucky. It worked out right.

Caitlin Smith: 30:57

That's great.

Alejandrina Guzman: 30:58

The policy issue right now. But, yeah, so So a lot of my work there and policy and legislative issues. And knowing my my goal for me, was, hopefully at the end of session was learning how to, to work with the other aisle. Right. And I and I am using air quotations, because I'm acknowledging, I don't like it. But I'm acknowledging that a lot of policy work ends up being bipartisan work. Yes. In the system, in an ideal world, for me, because of justice, the idea is just you do what you got to do and fight for what you have to fight, and you make that statement. In a policy world, it's very much Okay. Here's my idea. Here is what I hope to do. How can I make this post? Where it benefits everyone? And I yes. And I struggle internally still with that, because it still works in this in this this kind of world? Yeah. But I did, I am glad I learned that during my time there. And now I'm like, wow, I understand how like this whole process of finding the bill and, and fighting for that bill, and then getting it to the governor's desk. And then if even the governor ends up signing, right, like, that's a whole nother thing. And it's just, gosh, there's so so much from where, like, issues stem from, like, for example, fighting for Accessible rise for private companies, how to set rideshare private companies like Uber or Lyft. Right? I learned that capital and what that means, you know, like, different things like that. But yeah, I'm really glad I had that opportunity. Because it's given me an additional lens of how to look at the world. So to say.

Caitlin Smith: 33:35

That's really interesting. And I think you hit on what I part of my question, because I work in energy policy. And so if I'm working with a subject matter expert, a lot of times the answer is what you encountered when you were student body president. And so you can't do that because of the regulation or the law. But there's very few of those developers, you know, they'll accept that answer. But there's very few of them. say, Well, I'd like to work in policy, so I can change that. So I thought that was interesting that you wanted to do that. But then I think as you discovered, the reason why there's very few people who want to do that is because they would become very frustrated with with the compromise and having to work with other people, which I enjoy. But I think, you know, that does stuff, a lot of people from saying, Well, I'm going to be the one to to change the policies and change that.

Alejandrina Guzman: 34:30

Yeah.

Caitlin Smith: 34:30

Do you think you'd continue to work in policy.

Alejandrina Guzman: 34:35

Right now my answer is yes.

Caitlin Smith: 34:40

So it's worth it?

Alejandrina Guzman: 34:47

Yes. Answer so hesitantly because again, like I've just with the work I'm doing now. Like, not because of my work, but just because of the genuine and authentic relationships I've been building with disabled community members of Texas and even across the nation. It's like, damn, we are so behind on so many issues for the disability community. And it sucks that I have to, quote unquote, conform, and work in this bubble of policy, because I see a piece of value and doing and a piece of that entire picture is policy. And, and super quickly, I want to mention that when I think piece is disability activists, disabled activists, justice, disabled, and I'm trying to word it coherent Disability Justice activists on the ground, and framing for everyone, whoever right. The work they do is tied in direct action. So that's not really you know, let me go to the Capitol and make some laws, or let me go tell people to go vote, or, you know, everybody focus on elections, just kind of along the same lines, right? It is that it is not everything, right. And Disability Justice. And, and, and, and direct action means confronting these issues, whether that is, for example, in the political world, a senator who doesn't want to meet with you directly, protesting in their office, which I've done, it could look like, you know, someone in, in an institution, sorry, someone in a, an entity, a systemic entity, that does not listen to disabled people. For example, a hospital, is calling them out by social media, we have done it can look like, you know, telling people, and, and, and helping people understand, even if they don't accept it, but helping people understand that electoral politics doesn't cut it doesn't go all the way to what we fight for. Because at the end of the day, although, for me, personally, I am Democrat, yes, I'm in Texas Democratic Party. Yes, I am going to work on democratic, issues, I also acknowledge that even when Democratic leaders, not everything is done, to what we demand. And that's something that's like a hard truth for some people, right? It's like, Oh, yes. Okay, but like, go vote. Okay. Yes. I'm not saying don't vote, right. I'm just saying, we have to acknowledge that there is a lane for everybody's participation. If that means policy, go do it. If that means electoral work, go do it. If that means, on the ground, direct action, activism, go do it. Right. And all of these pieces working together to continue fighting for, you know, the oppressed.

Caitlin Smith: 39:07

I think that makes sense. And I think I agree with that. You know, tying it back to the policy work I do, because I hear a lot of the same people I referenced who would never want to work in policy. You know, they'll they'll accept the answer. You know, you can't do this because whatever regulation but they usually will complain about it. And because of the work I do and and my mindset, I think well, I wouldn't even waste time complaining about it. I would, you know, use my skills and try to go to the avenue to make the change. So I think it's what you're saying though, it's if you disagree with the electoral system, or if you disagree with this, just go do it.

Alejandrina Guzman: 39:53

Right. Because it really does take everyone to do this work. And also reminding people that like, Oh, well, you know, this person that's complaining all the time, and they're angry all the time, like, what are they even doing? No, no, no. Like, like, to me, like, just thinking of myself back in high school back in, even before High School, like trying to present myself as like, positive and palatable and like, all these things, right? And I'm like, freaking angry all the time. Right? And like, it's acknowledging that like, Okay, I'm gonna push fighting for, yeah, unapologetic way. And that is the thing that I think a lot of people forget that, like, they think that that like, you know, being seen as as positive word or being seen as like, you know, a team player, right? Or inviting player like, Oh, well, this activist is like banging on the door all the time. I can't they just, you know, talk to me. And it's like, we have been calling you out they've been demanding. Before my, you know, me personally my lifetime, right? And it's just, you know, I just, that's what I am, and who I am now dislike, angry. And also like, acknowledging that there are just so many things that can be done, and at least for me, is navigating, being intense. And, and knowing that, like, if it's not me, then who, if it's not now then when, and who do fight for their own respective communities, especially oppressed communities, is knowing that like, you know, you gotta be out there, if you're able to, you got to be out there, whether that's social media work, whether that's going to the Capitol and working alongside legislators, whether it's, you know, writing emails to senators, whether it's making some blog, or video content, or podcast, even, like, or writing a book, whatever medium you choose, and whatever way you're able to, and are comfortable to, like, just go do it. Because we know, the system is working perfectly, it is not broken, it was designed in a certain way to leave out certain people. And because of that, right, when it is not challenged, what's happening? Nothing. Right. And even when a lot of times, nothing changes, either. Because these same ideas of upholding the idea that oh, well, you know, reform or Oh, well, working within, that's not always gonna work. So again, it's just being comfortable with it once. And I think that's the biggest thing I will say now that I've learned.

Caitlin Smith: 43:32

What's so what is the most rewarding part of your job? I think we've been talking about some of the difficult things that you have to overcome. But but obviously, you find the difficulties with systems and with policy worth it. So what is that sort of most rewarding piece to you?

Alejandrina Guzman: 43:52

The most rewarding piece is working alongside disabled community members, activists and leaders and creating space for disabled people. And making sure that and whatever it is, I do, I'm always focusing on on on them.

Caitlin Smith: 44:18

Cool. And then you mentioned that you didn't think three years ago you would be doing this. So what what would you be doing if you didn't have this job? And maybe this is two separate questions. What did you think you were going to do when you grew up? Because I know you talked a little bit about not thinking you'd go to UT or I guess the better version would be what did you want to be when you grew up?

Alejandrina Guzman: 44:43

I always wanted to be a teacher. And in college. I used to be a radio television film major. And if I could be anything now it would either be a teacher or like, talk show host.

Caitlin Smith: 45:07

I would love to be a talk show host. You know, I was thinking that I don't have children. But I know that right now a lot of people are having to sort of homeschool their kids. And I'm glad I don't have to do that, because I'm not a teacher. And there's a reason I'm not a teacher. So that's very commendable that you always wanted to do that. Yeah, I do not have the patience for that. So that would not be great for the students. But, but I think you would be a great teacher. So all right, are there any closing things you want to leave us with or anything else we should add?

Alejandrina Guzman: 45:50

Closing thoughts on Disability Justice, is that, that is intersectional. And, and ensuring that, you know, it's not just, you know, white disabled people, it's also disabled people from different communities. So that includes black, indigenous, trans, poor, unhoused. Undocumented, those living in rural areas, those who are incarcerated, those in detention centers, and those in nursing homes. And as people, you know, two men are, or are involved in any kind of policy work, that any policy is disability policy. Because if we were to be universally inclusive, that's for everybody. At the same time, is remembering that we must always uplift disabled people, and making sure that disabled people are not just, you know, brought on what have the mic and have the opportunities to do all this work. And last thing is that Disability Justice means Black Lives Matter. Black disabled lives matter. It also means that being disabled is not disposable. And Disability Justice really means liberation for everyone. And, you know, for me, I don't want people to focus on being unkind to me, or being empathetic to me, it's, I need people to be angry with me. And being in the mud, to fight for so many of these demands and justice that disabled people have been fighting for, for years. To continue uplifting di

Caitlin Smith: 48:11

I think that's great. That was all really abled powerful. And that's, I mean, that's how I learned best is sort of following the the people who are the most knowledgeable. And that's how I kind of approach learning anything.

Alejandrina Guzman: 48:27

Exactly. Especially for social media.

Caitlin Smith: 48:30

Yes, yes. All right. Well, thank you for your time.

Alejandrina Guzman: 48:34

Yes, thank you. Thank you for having me on here. And I'm glad. Thank you so much, Caitlin.

Caitlin Smith: 48:41

Thank you. All right. Well, we will wrap it up here. And thank you all for joining us.