The Honorable Susan Combs, Interviewed by Jenifer Sarver

This episode was recorded on January 26, 2021.

In this episode, the Honorable Susan Combs talks with Jenifer Sarver about her career in public service and efforts to bring women up alongside her in Texas and national politics.

Susan Combs is a former Assistant Secretary of Policy, Management and Budget at the U.S. Department of the Interior. Prior to her service to the United States, she served as Texas Comptroller, was the first woman elected commissioner of the Texas Department of Agriculture, and also served two terms in the Texas House of Representatives.  Susan is an attorney, former prosecutor, and no-nonsense rancher.

In this interview, Susan shares her thoughts on the importance of women stepping up to run for office and lead politically. She also discusses her work as the author of Texas Tenacity and as a founder of Herdacity - a non-profit dedicated to empowering women in business and public service.

Learn more at:

www.herdacity.org
www.SusanCombs.com

Show your support for the Pink Granite Podcast and join our Leader Circle by visiting us on Patreon at www.patreon.com/pinkgranite or by visiting PinkGranite.org

Follow us on Social Media:

Instagram @PinkGraniteTX
Facebook @PinkGraniteTX
Twitter @PinkGraniteTX
LinkedIn: Pink Granite

Season 2 of the Pink Granite Podcast is generously sponsored by:

Davis Kaufman
Public Blueprint

Thank you for listening!

Guest:  The Honorable Susan Combs
Host: Jenifer Sarver
Editing: Amy Whited
Music:  "Only the Brave Run Wild" Sounds Like Sander
Voice Talent:  Sarah Keats
Executive Producer: Amy Whited

Transcript

Jenifer Sarver: 0:24

Hello, this is Jennifer Sarver. I am so delighted to be back as a guest host of the Pink Granite Podcast. And I'm really excited today to introduce you all to Susan Combs. Susan, thank you so much for joining us.

Susan Combs: 0:36

Delighted to be on. Jennifer, thanks.

Jenifer Sarver: 0:38

You know, Susan has had a tremendous public service career. She was in the state legislature here in Texas. She's held two statewide offices, including as the state's first female agriculture commissioner, and most recently was the Assistant Secretary of Policy Management and Budget at the US Department of the Interior. So today, we're going to talk a little bit about Susan's public service career, some advice that she has for people who are listening to this podcast. And then of course, we want to talk a little bit about the role that strong women leaders can play in our country right now and in the path forward. So Susan, does that sound like a good agenda to you?

Susan Combs: 1:12

It sounds like a fun agenda.

Jenifer Sarver: 1:14

Good, good. Well, I want this to be a fun conversation, because you have so many great stories. And that's how I want to start out today. And you told me a story that just has been ringing in my head. And I want to just read this line. You said, "If I explained it to you, you wouldn't understand it." Why don't you pick up from that quote and tell us the story that got you involved in public service and how that quote, really sparked it?

Susan Combs: 1:37

Well, this was said, in a public meeting town hall meeting in Alpine, in the Big Bend area of Texas about a proposed brand new expanded power line. And I was trying to point out to the Rio Grande electric co-op's manager that actually the most efficient design, because I had been to the Public Utility Commission and talk to him, instead of going all the way east and then curving back Southwest in a j shape, just go straight down the highway from Alpine on Highway 118. And in front of all these people he said, "If I explained it to you, you wouldn't understand it." Well, I was so flabbergasted. To quote West Texas, I was pissed off. And I thought "the guy is an idiot." And so two of us, me and a fellow lawyer, we went and took part in a case for a certificate of convenience and necessity, which is whether or not you should have a powerline. And we ended up winning three zero. What was astonishing to me about that, though, were two things. One was that the guy in a public meeting, you know, dismissed and was openly contemptuous of somebody whose ranch he needed to go through for an easement, which was, you know, not very smart. But secondly, that the board had never asked any questions, the board had believed everything that this guy said, which turned out to be wrong. And so we decided, my fellow rancher and I, we decided that we would start the process, a three year process, of turning over the members of the board. And that was my first real experience with politics, you could do it if you had a compelling message. And if you were focused and dedicated to why it needed to change.

Jenifer Sarver: 3:23

I love that story. Because I feel like so many people's public service journey begins because they see a problem. They see a problem, they see an issue, they want to get involved. They want to do something about it. And you took that moment when you could have been embarrassed or upset and said, You know what, I'm going to change things.

Susan Combs: 3:40

Well, I was pissed off. In fact, as my my business partner 15 years one point said to me, he said, "Susan, you're the most even tempered person I know." And I was, "Why that is, that is so lovely." He said"Yeah, you're always pissed off."And I thought it's, you know, getting a little feisty, is a good motivator and motivated to help somebody else, motivated to write a wrong, motivated to just make something better. It's it's not about you, you you, it's about doing what's right. And that was very, very inspiring, and energy creating.

Jenifer Sarver: 4:17

Well, feisty is certainly a word that I've seen used to describe you quite a bit. But one other thing I think is really interesting is how you've chosen to use humor to kind of disarm your opponents. So talk to us a little bit about how you've leveraged humor, in your races and in your life in general, to disarm some of that tension sometimes.

Susan Combs: 4:37

Well, I ran, first ran for the legislature. It was in spring of '92. And I ran against four guys, and I of course, noted as it was easy to spot that I was the tallest person in the group. And so I wanted to make my height part of my appeal. And I also wanted to joke about the guys and so I would say things you know, sort of tongue in cheek. "Well, I'm the outstanding candidate in this race." I would say I have the highest profile on this race, or I would say things like this, really, they didn't like this "all my opponents look up to me." And of course, the crowd would watch these guys. Sometimes they would look at me, sometimes they would just look, you know, stony faced out, and then I would just smile and the humor, there worked. The other kind of humor that I use, though, was with respect to the things that I handed out. And I think I told you the story I was in Pflugerville, on a parade and former Congressman Jake Pickle was in the crowd, a couple of cars ahead of me, in convertibles. And these kids were running and screaming and looking at him. And he was throwing something out these green things. Well, I found out later, he was throwing out about two and a half inch long plastic, green plastic pickles. And that was a complete eureka moment. Oh, my goodness, Combs Comb, Susan. So I ordered about 2500 combs the following Monday. And they became quite also a way of injecting humor. I was at a fundraiser in Amarillo. And this balding guy was sort of standing, at the front. He says,"Susan, if you just hand me that comb, I promise you, I will never ever part with it."

Jenifer Sarver: 6:24

People I appreciated that humor, they appreciated it.

Susan Combs: 6:27

They did. And then I would always try to spot some friend of mine that was, you know, hair challenged. And I would, I would use it and everybody took it in good fun But it further cemented the value of the combs and my name, it was very useful.

Jenifer Sarver: 6:42

Well, and what you've just said, there's two different ways in which you really help stand out from the crowd like to use your humor there. But you have to identify ways for people to remember you and for people to understand your perspective. And you kind of mentioned this before this idea of you have to have a compelling message. So if you were handing out combs, but didn't have anything to say, that would have been different. So tell us what kind of message you had and kind of the story that you told about public service and why you wanted to serve?

Susan Combs: 7:09

Well, I was a small business owner. And I think that gave me the ability to say yes, I do understand what it's like and I sort of a fiscal tightwad, my father had a statement that with money you've always got to be as tight as the bark on the tree. And I could make the case, that being a small business owner, and a rancher, and also a former prosecutor, that I would safely guard their resources, it was their money, it's always their money, and that I would do my best to represent them. And so that was the view that I had when I was in the state legislature. You just have to be viewed as honest, straightforward, knowledgeable, and credible.

Jenifer Sarver: 7:57

Honest, straightforward, knowledgeable and credible. That sounds like a great campaign tagline for sure. You know, you and I both had the privilege of working for our former senator Kay Bailey Hutchison, a strong Texas woman. We have this legacy in Texas, of strong women like yourself like Ann Richards like Kay Bailey Hutchison, but we've been a little bit slow to elect more women in Texas. And that's certainly something I spend a lot of time thinking about, how do we encourage and support women? Tell me what you think about why it is that we haven't seen kind of a rush of more women running for office in Texas, and that's changing, but it's still been very slow.

Susan Combs: 8:35

What I think it depends on what kind of office, Jenifer, that they're running for. We do have plenty of candidates for city council or county offices or school districts. What I think happens is the state legislature, which is only in one city in each state, it's a distance problem. And so I've had a lot of women say, "I'd love to go to the legislature, but that's 150 miles, or it's 300 miles or it's an El Paso." And so I think distance is one thing, but secondly is their family circumstances. And if you've got a lot of home related challenges or things that you don't want to leave, you know, a teenage boy or girl at home, then you may want to put it off. I also think the third thing though, is is the confidence gap. I think women don't often enough believe they have what it takes. And I don't know whether they have not been given the sense that they couldn't do something from home or whether their family or friends don't support them, or they just have this confidence get the confidence gap is real. And pervasive. Unfortunately, women compared to men, men, the studies are pretty strong. You know, if there's 17, you know, traits that you have to have to have this job and a woman has 15 and she doesn't think she's got enough to do these things. Same 17 traits, a guy's got 14, he thinks he's got the job nailed. And that's really an interesting dynamic. And so I think it's important for us, and with the role that Pink Granite plays, is to say to women, you truly are qualified. If you want to learn something else, go for it, it'll make you a better candidate or a better participant in the body politic. But don't sell yourself short. Because you are able to do more than you think.

Jenifer Sarver: 10:28

That's such great advice. And I think we also know that it takes something like seven times for a woman to be asked to run for office. So I repeatedly say out loud "I'm asking you to run for office," so that anybody that hears it will have heard that at least once, you know, I think that you have this passion for righting wrongs. You talked about that with your story. But you also experienced that when you were a prosecutor and I think people you know, an encouragement to find an area that you care about, that you can be passionate about and get involved, whether that is at the very local level at the state level is a great way to to enter into public service. So to tell us a little bit about when you were a prosecutor and who you serve in that capacity and how passionate you became about that work.

Susan Combs: 11:08

Yeah, I wore two hats. When I was in the Dallas DA office, there I was the prosecution side of you know, juvenile delinquents. And then there was what I would call the civil side where I represented Dallas County Child Welfare as it was named at the time, and I represented the welfare department in removing abused children from their homes. And I always knew I was the last person standing between that child, and very significant future harm. And so it was up to me to be the best prepared, the most articulate, the most persuasive, because if I wasn't all of those things, there was going to be terrible harm done to that child. And I never lost a jury trial, protecting a kid never. And I'm very proud of that record. But the point is, is that if you care strongly about somebody besides yourself, if you truly know that you are their advocate, it's astonishing what you can do.

Jenifer Sarver: 12:10

I think that's that's such great advice. And we know that a lot of our Pink Granite audience is women that work in and around the Capitol. So they're on staff, they're leading staff, they're lobbyists, they're, they're in the media, they're consultants. So there is such a place for people to find a way to get involved, regardless of what what they do, right. We don't always want to just talk about elected office, because that's going to be a small portion of people. But let's talk a little bit about, you know, advice you might have for women listening who want to jump into the arena and get more involved in public policy and, and what how can they learn? How can they get engaged? What would you tell them?

Susan Combs: 12:46

Well, I thought it was interesting, you, you you appropriately listed all the groups, the staffers, the lobbyists, consultants, etc, I would say, working in one of those offices, consultants know a huge amount about what the issues are that Texans all across the state, in all walks of life care about. And that is an education in and of itself. The staffers in the offices within the Capitol, that's where you learn about the process and the lobbyists, the lobbyists know, a great deal about a number of issues, they also understand sort of the interpersonal dynamics that plays such a part in having the ability to persuade on an issue. I think any of those are good. And in fact, one of my children worked, answering the telephones at a lobbyist's office. And I think that was great education. So I would say, any point of entry, where you decide you're going to learn whatever that office has, there is basically no wasted research ever. It's all grist for the future mill. And so I would say, you know, you learn how to advocate with facts. And you will watch various styles of humor, which I think will be instructive. You will learn presentation styles of facts. I think it's a it's a great course. And it stands you in good speed, whether it's in a corporation later or whether it's in a political environment. It's all very, very good research.

Jenifer Sarver: 14:23

Yes. That on the job training, right?

Susan Combs: 14:26

Yes, well, it is great. And also watching, I think watching interpersonal dynamics is one of the best teachers there is. If you watch body language, even when somebody's on the phone, suppose you're working in one of the offices named above and you're watching somebody smiling to all of a sudden, they sit back and slump in their chair, and their face looks tired. Whoever's on the other end of the phone is not making a compelling, probably.

Jenifer Sarver: 15:21

You've mentioned that that word compelling a couple of times, I think being able, you know, to articulate your message and your story and understand people's motivations is such an important part of being able to be that effective communicator. And, you know, I think it's interesting, you know, you've been in elected office, you've you've now been an appointed office, you've been in a Senate confirmed position, you know, what, what was it like, you know, kind of going up to have people like, Look, through your record, look, through your past Look, look at all the things you've ever done in your life, because I know, that's one of the things that that I think does intimidate people sometimes about running for office or putting themselves out there. Talk to us a little bit about what that experience is like, and how people can learn from from your experience.

Susan Combs: 16:03

I think one thing is going up to DC was very different than being in Austin and DC is very much a bubble. by that. I mean, it's it's its own creature. And so you really have to learn that environment, you have to learn sort of how they speak, the acronyms I had to learn was just phenomenal. I mean, it was just every, you know, everybody had these acronyms. So I had to learn the language. It's a very arcane society. And it's very much an insider's game. But the point is, I came in as a total outsider. And I actually used humor to sort of penetrate the bubble, I would joke in a meeting that I've got an imaginary bowl out here, and every person has to put $1 in when they use an acronym and a$5 bill, if you don't remember what it stands for, I did that for about four or five months. And people did recognize that they in fact, had forgotten sometimes the acronyms which I thought was pretty amusing. But I also figured that the way I could get things done was by going from the bottom up finding out what the pain points were at the department that I could help address, get them engaged, and then I just sailed on through.

Jenifer Sarver: 17:15

I can share that that pain, you know, being in DC listening to those acronyms being in the bubble. And I think that's true, kind of no matter where you work, right, you end up being in a bubble. And it's so important to use clear language and avoid jargon. And that's one of the things I think Texans do really well is they're great storytellers and trying to try to remind people of what it's like to be, in your case back on the ranch, right? And what what who are the people that you're really trying to serve? Talk a little bit about how you keep kind of people back home, no matter where you are in public service? How do you maintain that connection to constituents that connection to the people whose money you're actually spending and who you actually serve on a daily basis?

Susan Combs: 17:56

I think, for one thing, you can't be a fat head. This is a real story. I asked a friend of mine. When I was running for the state legislature. I said, How long will it take me before I become a fat head? And he said, this was our friend, Bill Miller. And he said, "Oh, 10 years if you're lucky." And that was so frightening to me that I would become a as like, as I called it fat head that I resolved, I would not do that. And that I would talk to people in small towns, and that I would talk to people who couldn't buy their way into a reception, I would talk to people who really were in some cases forgotten because they weren't in the pink building. And so I think that's the way you are more effective is if you push back from the bubble, in a sense, you will be very effective if you honestly speak with a real voice.

Jenifer Sarver: 18:58

Yeah, inviting real real constituents whether or not they can they can pay to attend a CEP reception is really really good advice for people to take. Because you will you will find that oftentimes you will, you will you will say what they want to hear versus, versus really digging into the issues. And so I think that's that's such important advice for all of us, right, no matter where we are in public services to expand our universe and to get diverse perspectives and voices.

Susan Combs: 19:25

I did something else that I found very helpful. When I became Ag Commissioner. I held about between 15 and 18 townhall meetings every fall, and there might be 20 people there might be 100 people. And I took questions from all of them. And that was very real, very granular. I did that as comptroller, so for those 16 years in statewide with, unlike with you the legislature, you're in your own area. This was statewide. I had those town hall meetings. And they were really useful. They were a temperature gauge, what was the mood? What did they not know about? What did they want to know about? And I thought that it was just super helpful. And it was kind of wore you out. I did about four of these a day, overnight, you know, four or five days. But it was a wonderful way to get straight, the straight skinny.

Jenifer Sarver: 20:22

Absolutely listen to people where they're at, you know, that just makes me think about this political climate we're in right now where it feels like people really aren't doing a very good job of talking to one another or listening to one another. I don't think it's any secret that we're polarized. And there's plenty of blame to go around as to why that is. But what what advice do you have, for those listening to, you know, kind of get through this moment and to be more effective advocates for the causes that they care about, and for their issues, and for the side of the political aisle that they happen to be on? What would you say to folks who are feeling frustrated right now.

Susan Combs: 20:56

I would say, we need to dial back the rhetoric, all of us lose the exclamation points lose the, you know, strong language, the volume in print the volume in writing, and we need to say, Okay, I accept that we have different views. But I respect the right you have to your opinion, I will listen to you and tell me why you feel this way. Because I don't think that consensus is a dirty word. I think it is practical. And it's pragmatic. And I think sometimes in building a consensus, the rough edges on all participants, get them knocked off, and you end up with a smoother was illusion. And I truly welcome the opportunity for anybody to speak. But speak respectfully, and respect. We speak calmly. And I just think that, I think that's the tone, the DB level, the decibel level is deafening. And I think that kind of over shouting over yelling, whether it's in print, or tweet, or something is is not useful. I love all of that advice, lose the exclamation points.

Jenifer Sarver: 22:19

Consensus is not a dirty word. I mean, truly coming together to find the best solutions does take people from different perspectives, you know, gathering around the table. And the thing about that is each of us can do something about that. It's not just up to our elected officials, although we should hold them to a high standard of individuals and the way we engage with one another, we can really impact that decibel level if we all take it down a notch or two.

Susan Combs: 22:46

I talked to a friend of mine today in San Antonio. And she and I were talking about sort of your the polarization of discourse. And she and I were talking about a friend that we share, and we had had a different conversations individual, her conversation, he ended up very unhappy. And mine. I still disagreed. But we talked about how much we respected each other known each other for decades. And all I said to my friend in San Antonio was let's remember first, why we like them. That there are friends. And let's not let its you know, it's kind of like religion and politics. Let's not let those differences divide us. We still are friends.

Jenifer Sarver: 23:30

Yeah. And and I think that's such such an important advice. It seems like we asked a question, are they red or blue before we we try to figure out who they are really. And I think that that's really important advice, you know, in this movement, move moving forward as a country moving forward as a community. I'd like to kind of pivot a little bit to something that you started a few years ago, and and just talk a little bit about Herdacity, and and what that is all about, and why you decided to start it.

Susan Combs: 23:59

Well, that was that was a lot of fun. Actually, I launched that in the spring of 2015. But what had happened was, there had been a bunch of new people elected to the Austin City Council. And this was in the spring of 2015. You know, five years ago, almost six. And there was an article in The Statesman that said that, oh, my goodness, because there's a first time ever majority of women, city council members, we must rush out and get a consultant because my goodness, women are known for two things. They ask a lot of questions. And they don't like numbers. Well, that sort of like my, if we, if I explained it to you wouldn't understand that epiphany. And I wrote an op ed that afternoon and they published it the next day. And I thought, What on earth is this nonsense in 2015? In a, you know, not exactly conservative bastion city, and I thought there's got to be a way to address that. To give people the feeling, they can be feisty, they can stand up for themselves, they can use humor. And so I launched Herdacity, and Herdacity is a contraction of the words, her audacity, where women dare to be the person they want, and dare to live their destinies. And what it's, it's, it's going great. Obviously, I had to drop off of it when I was gone, but they're doing, they're doing great things and they've got a nice phrase is called Community over Competition means Herdacity really wants to empower women to help each other to encourage each other. And I think it is a wonderful place. It's www.Herdacity.org. And I hope you'll go look at it.

Jenifer Sarver: 25:46

I would love for people to take a look at that. And we'll make sure we include that link when we share the podcast, so that people can can take a look at it. And I think it's just one more example of you know, you, instead of just getting getting, you got frustrated, right, you got angry, you got pissed off, you took action, right. And that's it. That's a common theme I'm sensing here, Susan is you get pissed off at something but you don't just sit at home and stew, you don't just sit back and become a keyboard warrior and you know, fire off some social media misses, you take action and do something about it. Another place where...

Susan Combs: 26:18

By the way it's fun!

Jenifer Sarver: 26:20

It's better to channel that energy into something good, right? I mean, I think that's that's true, too, when you decided to write a book called Texas Tenacity, right? Instead of, you know, you getting getting these stories, getting these ideas together and putting them into a book. So tell us a little bit about the book, the process of writing it, and what you hope women get out of it?

Susan Combs: 26:39

Well, I wrote this was a memoir, I wanted people to know that actually, even though I've been elected, and supposedly in my life had been vetted, you know, a to z, there was a lot that people didn't know about what I had to go through, which meant if I could gone through it, they could do it. It was meant to support Herdacity. But it was also meant to say you can do anything. And so I put a quote in here at the front of the book that says throw me to the wolves, and I'll return leading the pack. And that's by some anonymous author. But I thought, wow, throw me to the wolves, there's wolves in everybody's life, there's something but you got to turn that around, and you got to return leading the pack. If you feel like you can't get you know, up off the ground, you can get up off the ground. And if somebody throws a barrier in your way, you can fix it, I sort of wrote the book that if the front doors locked, try to kick it in, go to the side door going through the window, but whatever is not working, fix it. And there was a one notable example which was that I wanted to have all of the Texas public entities have all their stuff, their data, their numbers or budgets, online, transparent, but I got killed twice, on point of order. And so I was so annoyed about that, that I launched a website, www.tellthetruthtexas.org. And after my bill died for the second time, I created a working group within the Comptroller's office to do all of the things that I'd want other people to do. I put it all up online, because I thought it was important. Every single man woman and child in this date was entitled to know how we were spending their money at every single public entity.

Jenifer Sarver: 28:24

Sounds like you don't take no for an answer.

Susan Combs: 28:27

No, I don't. That's why I say go kicking the doors,

Jenifer Sarver: 28:29

Kick in the doors, kicking the windows. I'm and windows. holding up a copy of Texas Tenacity and there's there's two

Susan Combs: 28:32

Well, I love hyperbole and read had a quotes on the back of the book. One is from Herb Kelleher, the co founder of Southwest Airlines, and he says Susan Combs is the personal epitome of Texas Tenacity. And then the other one is from Red McCombs also known not a wallflower here in Texas. Susan does the right thing for the right reason she expects to win and is the smartest person in the room. How do you feel about somebody calling you the smartest person in the room? fabulous comment, which I thought was one of us should have sent him a couple of bucks. Herb Kelleher was a ranch neighbor. And I asked him to take a look at the book. I said, Herb, if you'll go ahead and look at the book, I'll let you poach a deer. That's such a Texas story. I'm gonna trade a deer for a quote from my book cover. That's awesome. I love it. I would encourage folks to get get the book Texas Tenacity, I ordered it off of Amazon and just to hear some of these stories firsthand, because I do think, you know, you hear this saying you cannot be what you cannot see. And I think it's so important to see the examples of people's lives and certainly women can learn from the examples of men I know that you have had great male mentors, as have I. But there's something special about a Texas woman kind of taking the reins of her life and really leading it in a way that is impacted so many other people. And so I'd love you know, just as as we kind of wrap up here in a few minutes to talk about some of that advice that you have for women. I mean, I think you know, when you first went off to New York at the very beginning of your career, you told me, "You know, I didn't have enough expectations for myself," let's talk a little bit about that, and how we can set better expectations for ourselves. I, I didn't. And I think that was really important that I had to learn to set them myself. I mean, my parents did not say, you've got to go make good grades, I in fact, asked them to pay me if I made good grades, so I'll make a few bucks. But they didn't expect me to do that nobody did. And that's partly the era, but it's also partly family. Now, my parents did expect me to work hard into, you know, they encouraged me, but they didn't expect, I think the difference between expectation and permission, so I got to New York way off there. And I had to launch myself by myself into what was then the world's largest international advertising company, and I had to find my way to a strange city. And it was really good. It taught me, I could go to a strange city, long way away. And I could make it and I think the experience all of us has, until you do something, you may not know you could do it, but you do it. And then right then it's your it's your rearview mirror, your history is you've done it. And I think that the more times you've done it, the better off it is. And so then I went to Wall Street, and then I went to the federal government. And then I came back and saw saw a TV show and went to law school. I was scared each time I did it. But once I did it, wow, the the confidence level went up. And so just don't be afraid to stretch. Don't be afraid to reach and get some support from friends who say, Mary, you can absolutely do it. Let me know, I'll help you. So be willing to cultivate friends and support.

Jenifer Sarver: 31:50

Yeah, get that kitchen cabinet, right? The people that are going to be there for you through through the races, they're the wins, the losses, all those things. You just kind of leaning into fear, you know that fear can really be a powerful motivator of not doing something because you're scared to take the leap and do that. I'd love for you to just to talk a little bit more about you know what, when people face fears, which we all do, what is advice you would have to kind of look that fear in the face and be able to dive in because not everybody is cut from the same cloth. It's a little bit hard for some people to do that. What what what advice you have for women that might feel like they're about to do something they're scared of, but they're trying to figure out what they should jump in.

Susan Combs: 32:30

I think get the fear out of yourself. And by that I mean, take it out, write it down, write it down, get it out of your head in your stomach. I mean, your stomach is one of the worst barriers to getting stuff done. Because your stomach says Oh, bad word. I can't do this. Well get it out, write it on paper. And then ask somebody pretend it's it's not about you, you will then find that as you describe this thing, you want to do it all of a sudden, it gets more manageable. And I find if I get up and sit up and write something down, it shrinks, and it becomes immediately knowable. The power line. I had no clue I could do it. But we did. We did it one day at a time one step at a time.

Jenifer Sarver: 33:16

Yeah, that's that's a great to take it one step at a time. I think if you what is that old saying? You know, how do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time? Yeah, you know, yes. But that's breaking things down these big, insurmountable obstacles. If you break them down until like, day by day, minute, by minute you can you can actually make some progress. And I think, you know, again, you've just led back to this idea of if you believe in something and you take, take it outside of yourself, right, you're applying whatever passion you have to serve others and to make others lives better, you're going to be able to move forward.

Susan Combs: 33:52

Yes, I really think the energy that you get to help others is absolutely unstoppable. I mean, I really do think when I knew that I was dealing with because I became invincible, I became powerful, because it was for somebody else, I would have been a widow was I was so I would have been not as strong. Had it been for me. But it wasn't for me. And so what I'm saying is, it's, it's for if it's for somebody else, it's easier. That said, we're always allowed. We're always allowed to stretch for ourselves. But in which case, put it outside of yourself. Describe who the you is that you think you are, what is the task you have to do? And then move forward.

Jenifer Sarver: 34:37

Map it out. I love that idea. Like get it out, get it out, put it on paper, surround yourself with people that are going to help you kind of achieve your goals and your passions and get that get that network at that community and just take action.

Susan Combs: 34:53

Yes, I mean, you're letting inactivity win when you do nothing you're letting fear win when you do nothing, which is why I just put the foot forward. That's why I mentioned the window the door, there's always a way there is a door, there's some way to get done what you need to get to, it may not be immediately recognizable. But if a door opens, go through it.

Jenifer Sarver: 35:15

Well, Susan, this has been so much fun to just hear your war stories and your advice. And I just would encourage people to check out Herdacity.org. And go buy Susan's book, Texas Tenacity. It's a great kind of roadmap to help women and I would suggest men too to really figure out how to kind of direct their destiny. And I've just been so grateful to spend this time with you any kind of Final thoughts you have for our audience?

Susan Combs: 35:42

No, I'm just grateful that Pink Granite is alive and Amy for for setting it up. I think this is a wonderful, you know, entryway into the important world of politics and policy, because it allocates resources it allocates all kinds of activities. And there's so many entry points. And I think what Pink Granite does is it gives you keys to all of the various doors.

Jenifer Sarver: 36:08

Absolutely. And in addition to those keys, it's a great community. And that's one of the things that that we emphasize. And so find yourselves a good community, connect with other folks who want to do good work, and you're off on a good path. Susan Combs thank you so much for your time today.

Susan Combs: 36:23

Thank you, Jennifer.