Red Herrings

A Gogh at Solving It

• Episode 34

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0:00 | 1:11:06

Welcome to Red Herrings!

This week, Brittany tells us about one of history's biggest mysteries...

Hosted by: Brittany Warren & Joccoaa Gray
 
Sound Engineer & Co-host: Christopher Brown
 
Edited by: Joccoaa Gray

If you would like to get in touch, please contact us at redherringspod@gmail.com.

Sources:

SPEAKER_02

Welcome to Red Herrings. I'm Jacoa, Master's student in Law and Human Rights, host of True Crime Club Newcastle, and creator of True Crime Forum Newcastle.

SPEAKER_03

Hi, I'm Brittany. I have two degrees in history and 15 years experience in genealogy. We're the red herrings.

SPEAKER_00

Well, well, well. What do we have here? Two red herrings and the catch of the day. Don't forget about me.

SPEAKER_02

Hi, Chris! We're the red herrings.

SPEAKER_00

And Chris!

SPEAKER_03

On a warm Sunday evening in late July 1890, a man walked into a small hotel in Auvers, France.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_03

I don't know if I'm pronouncing Auvers correctly, so please um no one come at me. How'd you say it, Chris? It's Over. No, I don't think that's correct.

SPEAKER_00

We'll go with that then.

SPEAKER_02

I think Chris nails it.

SPEAKER_03

I doubt you'd pronounce the S, but I'll be saying that. You will be.

SPEAKER_00

Where is that in France?

SPEAKER_03

I'm not gonna say it now. Alright. Because I do have a map later. Okay. He came in slowly, his coat pulled tightly around his body despite the heat. The light was fading, and the innkeeper's daughter would later recall how he pressed a hand to his stomach, how his face seemed drained of colour, how something about him felt wrong.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_03

When asked if something had happened, he struggled to answer. Has he been stabbed? No, but I have he didn't finish the sentence.

SPEAKER_02

No, but I have been stabbed.

SPEAKER_03

No, but I have Okay. Instead, he turned and made his way upstairs. A booking. He has a booking.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, he's booked a room for the night.

SPEAKER_03

Hmm.

SPEAKER_00

Well I'm imagining sort of, you know, like in Men in Black where the guy comes in wearing someone else's skin.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And I'm imagining that kind of thing where he's like holding the coat around him and like it's actually an alien.

SPEAKER_03

We're taking a wild turn and we're ten seconds into this.

SPEAKER_00

She's not saying no.

SPEAKER_03

I know. I'm not saying no. Did Chris just crack it?

SPEAKER_00

Oh, there we go.

SPEAKER_03

Less than twelve hours later, the quiet room he entered would become the center of one of history's most debated cases. Less than 48 hours later, he would be dead. His name? Vincent Van Gogh.

SPEAKER_02

Oh do you know? Do you know this? No. I know there's something about him. He's definitely in my list for True Crime Club, but I don't know what it is.

SPEAKER_03

All right. Well, you're about to find out. I am. Exciting. Buckle up. Okay.

SPEAKER_00

When we do do it at meetup, we can stick this on the uh recommended sources.

SPEAKER_02

100%. Oh god. Very scary, but yes. Lord Lucan, all of them. And we've had a recommendation for the Monster of Florence, whatever that is. So you need to cover that.

SPEAKER_03

I did actually, so I have like a list every week, and I can never choose. So I put it through one of those like random wheel generators and it just chooses for me. And I'm like, perfect. So it's on there and it will be chosen sometime.

SPEAKER_02

Amazing. Can't wait.

SPEAKER_03

So your first image, the newspaper article, but just just look at the first one. So that is an article on Van Gogh's death, dated August 7th, 1890. I don't know what it says because I don't speak French, but I thought it was very interesting.

SPEAKER_00

I do speak French. Do you? Yes.

SPEAKER_03

What does it say then?

SPEAKER_00

I I don't speak French, but you can figure it out, can't you? 27th of July, a man named Van Gogh. Van Gogh. Van Gogh.

SPEAKER_03

I think we're both actually pronounced.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think we're both wrong. 37 years old. A Dutch subject. Painter artist. Mm-hmm. Uh who's Visitor of Over. Yeah, visiting Overt. I don't know the rest. Oh, something about a revolver.

SPEAKER_02

Revolver, I saw that. Mm-hmm. Okay.

SPEAKER_00

He came back to his room where he died two days ago? No.

SPEAKER_03

Two days later?

SPEAKER_00

Ah. Smart.

SPEAKER_02

Okay. I have questions, but I'm gonna I'm gonna hold my horses.

SPEAKER_03

Are you sure you wanna ask them now?

SPEAKER_02

No, I'll I'll wait. Okay.

SPEAKER_03

Van Gogh had arrived in Auvergne just months before in May of 1890. After leaving the asylum at St. Remy. He came seeking peace, proximity to his brother Theo, and the care of a physician, Paul Gachette. Again, probably pronouncing Gosh wrong, but that's okay.

SPEAKER_00

The care of a physician. So there was something wrong with him already?

SPEAKER_03

And he'd just come back from an asylum. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes and yes.

SPEAKER_00

What was he seeking treatment for?

SPEAKER_03

Many, many things. We'll get into it. New ear. Yeah, honestly. Hearing loss? For a brief moment, it seemed he might find that peace he so desperately wanted. But he worked obsessively, sometimes completing a painting a day. Vast wheat fields stretched across his canvases under turbulent skies, painted in thick strokes of yellow and blue. He wrote to Theo about them, saying they expressed what he could not, sadness and extreme loneliness, and that the canvases will tell you what I cannot say in words, that is, how healthy and invigorating I find the countryside. But beneath that productivity, something darker lingered. Van Gogh had always lived on the edge of instability.

SPEAKER_00

Where's that in France?

SPEAKER_03

Instability? Born in 1853 in the Netherlands, Vincent Willem van Gogh was the son of a minister and had been a serious and quiet child. So he's quite young when he died. Mm-hmm. So born 1853, died in 1890.

SPEAKER_02

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03

He was 37.

SPEAKER_02

Wow, that's I imagine Van Gogh was like a really old man. Mm-mm. 37. 37.

SPEAKER_00

He had a good innings. It's all downhill after 35.

SPEAKER_03

30. You say that like it's from experience. Yeah, I did. His youth, he would later write, was austere and cold and sterile. He struggled through school, felt abandoned in boarding houses, and drifted through early careers as an art dealer, teacher, and preacher, but never quite finding his place.

SPEAKER_00

He was a preacher. That's really interesting. I didn't know that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

No. In July 1869, his uncle secured him a position at the art dealership Gupial and C in The Hague. After completing his training, he was transferred in 1873 to the company's London branch. This period marked one of the rare moments of happiness for him. At just 20 years old, he was successful in his work and earning more than his father. Theo's wife, Joe, would later describe this as the best year of Vincent's life. You can now see a photo of Joe. Or Jo, actually, might be Johanna. That is dated about 1889.

SPEAKER_00

It looks like she's done her own haircut at the front, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, it does actually.

SPEAKER_00

I didn't know he went to London, though. That's cool. I had no idea he'd even been to England.

SPEAKER_03

I cut it out, but he was kind of back and forth between the Netherlands and England England quite a bit. However, the stability quickly unraveled. Vincent fell deeply in love with his landlady's daughter, only to be rejected. This profoundly affected him as he turned to religion with intensity, giving away his possessions while working as a missionary among coal miners in Belgium, only to be dismissed. What are you grinning about? Because I said the word missionary.

SPEAKER_00

You have such little faith in me. Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_03

And yes.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, well, I was considering it, but then I thought Brent you would make fun of me. No, I was just gonna say, like, we always talk about people and it sounds like they have amazing lives and do so many wild so much wild stuff when they die at like 30.

SPEAKER_03

In 1875, his father and uncle arranged for his transfer to Paris, but Vincent was dismissed from his position a year later. So now Why? I don't actually know. Oh I potentially read it and just thought maybe it wasn't relevant, so I cut it out, but I can't remember. Not because he like went ballistic. No, I don't think so.

SPEAKER_00

Wait, this was the preacher position he thought.

SPEAKER_03

No, this was now another position he got dismissed from. A different position missionary. Yep. Gotcha. Yeah. This he began to isolate himself, but eventually, at the urging of Theo, he turned to art. So your next two photos is one of Vincent from 1873, and the next one is of Theo also from 1873.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. Vincent was hot.

SPEAKER_03

I was gonna say the other way around.

SPEAKER_02

Are you kidding? Absolutely. Absolutely not. No.

SPEAKER_03

Are you stupid? Chris! Are you stupid?

SPEAKER_00

What? You think Theo's hot?

SPEAKER_03

Do you are you looking at the right photos?

SPEAKER_02

I don't think either of them are.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I was gonna say neither, really, but Theo is better than Vincent's.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, Vincent's objectively hot. What? You say Theo is better than Vincent. Theo looks like a zombie.

SPEAKER_02

No, Theo's bad and Vincent's bad. Vincent looks like he got punched in the face.

SPEAKER_00

I don't I I think they're wrong. Google it and and uh decide for yourself.

SPEAKER_03

Chris, I'm worried.

SPEAKER_00

Or you can follow us on Instagram and uh check out the photos there.

SPEAKER_03

Should we put a poll on the Instagram story? Yeah. Vincent gives Theo. Love it.

SPEAKER_00

Well, Theo's wearing a cravat and uh Vincent's wearing a tie, so we know who had the most style anyway.

SPEAKER_02

Neither. Well we do, yes, because Theo's he looks a little bit more put together. Yes. The hair has um something in it to sweep it back. Yeah. Vincent uh maybe hasn't had a shower in a little bit.

SPEAKER_00

You think I think Vincent looks like he's just been dragged through a bush preaching and he's Ron Weasley from Wish. Wow. I I I think he's quite cute.

SPEAKER_03

I'm I'm you know what? I support it. If you think he's cute, then you go for it, boo.

SPEAKER_02

I think you're wrong, but she's got your back again.

SPEAKER_03

In just over a decade, he produced more than 2,100 shitty pictures. Paintings, drawings, and sketches.

SPEAKER_00

So mean.

SPEAKER_02

I think his sunflowers stuck. I think his chair stuck.

SPEAKER_00

This is why he killed himself.

SPEAKER_02

Well, maybe.

SPEAKER_03

I don't really care for the chair, but the sunflowers, Jacobo, we talk about them. What do you mean by quite a lot of sunflowers? Today, okay. What do you think?

SPEAKER_00

There's quite a lot of sunflowers paintings, right?

SPEAKER_03

He does a lot.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, because I thought growing up that there was only one sunflower painting.

SPEAKER_03

I did too. And then I was so mind-blown because the Philadelphia Museum of Art has one. And I went, right. We're known for like, you know, having a big art scene. And so you have the universities, they're known for their archaeology, their history programs. I was like, how do we end up with the sunflower painting by Van Gogh? Okay. And then I realized, oh, there's multiple. Oh. No, that makes a lot more sense. And they look the same? No, no. They're all like slightly different color shades, kind of phases. Say something.

SPEAKER_02

Yes. And I sort of clocked this from the beginning. It's not something I've thought previous to this podcast.

SPEAKER_00

This is gonna be a Luddite comment coming out. It's preparing our listeners.

SPEAKER_02

I wonder if he may have been on the spectrum. Because that sounds like a hyperfixation to me. Yeah, the love of sunflowers and painting them all the time. And it stood out to me when you were saying that he was saying to Theo that he was struggling to express himself and the sadness and loneliness and you know that he could do it through paint, which made me wonder. Absolutely. If he had a I just don't like the way Chris is looking at me.

SPEAKER_03

No, I mean it probably it's very plausible because like as we go through this, you'll see more and more. Like, I read a lot more quotes from his letters, and we talk about a lot of his paintings. That's why I was saying, I think a couple weeks ago, you're getting also a history lesson with this.

SPEAKER_00

So he had a lot going on for sure.

SPEAKER_03

I didn't want to say an art history lesson because I didn't want to give it away, but we talk about that, and I don't mention it in here because to be honest, it didn't come to mind. And what I read, I don't think anything has actually ever mentioned that.

SPEAKER_02

No, it hasn't.

SPEAKER_03

But I haven't deep dived. This is like a week's worth of research.

SPEAKER_02

Maybe as we go on, we can string it along and see if we're gonna do it. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03

In just over a decade, he produced more than 2,100 paintings, drawings, and sketches of landscapes, portraits, still lives, sunflowers blazing with color, and starry nights. Many create it during his final years.

SPEAKER_00

That's really interesting. So that's like pretty much one a day.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, it got to the point where he was doing one a day, maybe more.

SPEAKER_00

That's incredible.

SPEAKER_03

I know.

SPEAKER_00

And you said starry nights, so there was more than one starry night.

SPEAKER_03

Um, there's definitely like drafts and sketches. I genuinely maybe I should know this. I think there is only the one starry night. I could be wrong, but there's different renditions, different stages of it that are out there.

SPEAKER_01

Nice.

SPEAKER_03

By 1885, Theo expressed interest in exhibiting Vincent's work in Paris, prompting Vincent to produce his first major painting, The Potato Eaters, alongside a series of peasant studies. You can see his first major painting, The Potato Eaters. Tell me your thoughts.

SPEAKER_00

The potato eaters immediately sounds like a euphemism for like homosexuals or something.

SPEAKER_03

Does it go?

SPEAKER_00

It does a bit. Do you not think? Oh, he was he was a fucking potato eater.

SPEAKER_02

Well, when you say it like that. So I'm instantly calling this was this was done by AI. AI faces.

SPEAKER_00

You think?

SPEAKER_02

You think in 1885. Yeah, 100%. I yeah, I back you on that. So is this a commentary s because the figures in this painting are some sort of deformed and odd-looking. Is he saying that poor people are gross?

SPEAKER_03

I don't think so because he definitely identifies more with like that level of society. Right. As we'll see later. I do think it was just an artistic liberty that he took.

SPEAKER_02

Or he just can't draw faces.

SPEAKER_03

Perhaps, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

But if he Oh, I don't know. Okay. If he what? I just feel like if he if he really felt more at home with that kind of part of society and he liked it. Maybe he wouldn't have dropped it. It's not even just their their physical portrayal, it's the dank, dark room, you know, like there's a candle lamp at the top, it's not really giving much light. Like there's no warmth in that photo.

SPEAKER_03

I'm really glad you're saying this. Tell me more, like what it's making like you think of or you feel, or describe it to me.

SPEAKER_00

See, I would say that despite them obviously being poor, he's depicting them as sitting around a table, someone's pouring tea, they're all wearing like nice-ish clothes. Yes. And I would say, despite their poverty, he's making them look like they're still acting quite respectably. Thoughts.

SPEAKER_02

Yes, certainly. I agree. It's one of those things where it's like he's it's it's interesting.

SPEAKER_03

It is because when you look at his later works, like Imagine Starry Night, Imagine the Sunflowers, how does he get from the potato eaters to that?

SPEAKER_00

So this was before Starry Night.

SPEAKER_03

This was like one of his first works. Right, okay.

SPEAKER_00

So it looks like he's going from like almost social commentary to landscapes. Interesting.

SPEAKER_02

Well, I suppose it could make sense if this is one of his first ones, he's just feeling himself, seeing what he likes, and then one day he draws a landscape and falls in love with it, and then that's all he's ever gonna draw again.

SPEAKER_03

Exactly. Could be that. The thing is, we'll never know. We'll never know. And does it matter? No, but it's so fun to talk about.

SPEAKER_00

Brittany's degree just got what was the point?

SPEAKER_03

That's okay. However, Theo criticized the works as too dark and out of touch with the bright colors of Impressionism, which were popular in Paris at the time. So your next four photos are not Van Gogh, but I wanted them to show you this is what Impressionism was, this is what was popular in Paris, and Van Gogh goes and makes the potato eaters, and you can see it's such a stark difference.

SPEAKER_00

I feel like I should know these paintings.

SPEAKER_03

I do think some are Monet, some are Manet. I just chose random ones off the interwebs. That same year, his work was publicly exhibited for the first time in The Hague. Yet controversy followed. One of his young models became pregnant and Vincent was accused of misconduct, leading the local priest to forbid parishioners to pose for him. Seeking a fresh start, he moved to Antwerp, where he lived in poverty, surviving on bread, coffee, and tobacco while dedicating his money to art supplies.

SPEAKER_00

I was gonna say that sounds like Haji Koelith.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, we had a lot in common, me and Van Gold. Oh, yeah. And the mental health issues. Oh gosh. At least you didn't cut your ear off. Yet. Yep.

SPEAKER_00

I remember sectioning proprietary of you know fucking his um models.

SPEAKER_02

You don't know my past.

SPEAKER_03

There he studied color theory and the works of Rubens, expanding his palette to include vivid tones such as cobalt blue and emerald green. The next two paintings are Rubens. They're not him. I really like Rubens. I threw it in here solely for a selfish reason. So you can see kind of how Rubens does have the darker colors, but then brings in the light. And so that was what Van Gogh was studying. However, his health deteriorated and he was hospitalized in early 1886, possibly for syphilis.

SPEAKER_00

What a player.

SPEAKER_03

There's a lot of syphilis in this story. After recovering, Van Gogh enrolled at the Academy of Fine Arts in Antwerp, but his time there was brief and marked by conflict. Tensions came to a head during a drawing exercise based on the classical sculpture of the Venus de Milo.

SPEAKER_02

Alright.

SPEAKER_03

You have a photo of the Venus de Milo. So he was supposed to draw that.

SPEAKER_02

Right, what'd he draw?

SPEAKER_03

Rather than replicating the idealized form as instructed, Van Gogh reinterpreted the subject entirely, producing the torso of a more naturalistic, fleshy, Flemish peasant woman. To him, this was a truer representation of the human body. Fair enough. To his instructor, it was outright defiance.

SPEAKER_00

So he was woke AF.

SPEAKER_03

Uh-huh. Yeah. I didn't include it, but the instructor basically like went over his thing with like literally red crayon and just like marked it up and it ended up like tearing the paper, and Van Gogh stormed out. This conflict effectively marked the end of Van Gogh's academic training.

SPEAKER_02

No way. So he walked out or he was kicked out after that.

SPEAKER_03

It's not actually known. So there's a bit of like controversy here. So he definitely walked out in that moment. And then for a long time, people thought he was actually expelled. But then recently there was, I don't know, I guess, documentation to suggest he was invited back, but never went.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_03

Fair enough. In March 1886, Vincent moved to Paris, sharing an apartment with Theo. There, he immersed himself in the avant-garde art scene, meeting influential figures of the time. During this period, Vincent's style evolved significantly. We're now going to get into more of what you imagine as a Van Gogh. He painted portraits, still lives, and scenes of Parisian life. He also became acquainted with Paul Gogan, whose influence would later prove pivotal. So you have two yeah, you have two paintings that Van Gogh did of Paris, and then you have a pain a self-portrait dated to about 1887.

SPEAKER_00

He has ceased to look hot.

SPEAKER_03

I actually think he looks better than the photograph.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I do.

SPEAKER_00

Pretty nice older man.

SPEAKER_02

I think he's done himself a favour. Yeah. I think the beard suits him. Can I make an observation? Absolutely. You may. We have the the sort of Parisian street painting there. It's more colourful. Yes. But it's got less heart to me. Really? Than the potato peelers. Okay. It's quite just like a it's just a painting of what he sees literally in front of him, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00

I agree. I like the potato peelers. I think that's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_02

There's no like zooming into the people or the culture or he's just Could be debated this is their culture. The Parisian. I mean it's not in the home. It's not intimate.

SPEAKER_00

He's not showing the features of the people, is he?

SPEAKER_02

Mm-mm. It feels a bit stark.

SPEAKER_03

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

Maybe you should have done an art history.

SPEAKER_03

I was gonna say this makes me so happy hearing you guys, because I'm like, this was my entire four years like going over like art history and all that. And I'm I want to hear how this like makes you feel, what it makes you think. So and there's no wrong answer.

SPEAKER_00

That second one looks like a pen sketch. I d I don't rate that second one.

SPEAKER_02

It's not my favorite, but it's interesting. Cannot draw a chair to save his life. Can he?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, true. The perspective's not great, is it?

SPEAKER_03

Is he lying down?

SPEAKER_00

Interesting.

unknown

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03

What do you think of his self portrait?

SPEAKER_00

I mean I mean, going off his original paint his his photo we saw, he doesn't have that nice cheekbones. I think he's added those cheekbones.

SPEAKER_02

I think he's just practicing. Practising. How to do faces. Oh yes, definitely. When you look at his coat and collar and everything, it loses all the detail. He hasn't spent as much time as that on his face. He's playing with the shadows. He's like, I think he's just trying to practice.

SPEAKER_00

Was this post-air removal?

SPEAKER_02

No.

SPEAKER_00

Interesting.

SPEAKER_02

And he's facing away, sort of halfway with the side eye.

SPEAKER_00

Doesn't look particularly happy, does he?

SPEAKER_02

No. Maybe even a little bit suspicious. Or maybe he's got a mirror in front of him. And that is how his so he's looking at the mirror to look at half like this with the paintbrush. Maybe it literally just is his angle.

SPEAKER_03

Very possible. In February 1888, seeking inspiration and escape, Vincent moved to Arles in southern France. There his work transformed dramatically again. He embraced vibrant colors and began painting the natural world, olive groves and wheat fields in a newfound intensity. When Gogon agreed to join him, Vincent prepared with almost feverish enthusiasm. In the span of a single week, he painted multiple versions of his now iconic sunflowers. Writing to Thea that he envisioned decorating their shared studio with nothing but large sunflowers, you can see two of those paintings below.

SPEAKER_00

See now you've brought up the sort of like neurodivergent sort of sort of vibe. Everything Brittany's saying is going along with this. Like he was so excited that someone was coming to stay with him.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it feels a little, yes.

SPEAKER_00

Oh my god, I got a friend. Hi friend, come and stay with me.

SPEAKER_02

And a friend who's interested in the same thing I'm interested in. We paint. Yeah, and we'll go and we'll yeah, maybe. And then I'm just wondering if he's okay. I mean, I guess we know he's not, right?

SPEAKER_00

But just be lonely, AF.

SPEAKER_02

It could be the loneliness, it could be the depression, it could be a mania episode. Uh he'll have seen sunflowers before, right? It's not like he's just discovered the sunflower and realizes it's the most beautiful thing. Like maybe he genuinely hadn't seen one before. Were they very common? Oh no, they would have been. Okay.

SPEAKER_03

Definitely.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, he's just got a lot going on.

SPEAKER_03

Weird guy.

SPEAKER_01

Okay.

SPEAKER_03

Yet while Van Gogh admired Gogon deeply and longed to be treated as an equal, Gogan was domineering and self-assured. The two men argued frequently, and what Vincent himself described as excessive tension soon came to define their friendship. In the days leading up to the crisis, heavy rains kept the two men confined indoors. The precise sequence of events that followed remains uncertain. Years later, Gogan claimed that Van Gogh had displayed threatening behavior and even alleged that Van Gogh once pursued him with an open razor. What we know is that on the evening of December 23rd, 1888, after an altercation, Van Gogh suffered a severe psychological crisis. In a state of distress, he mutilated his own left ear with a razor. Do you know what he did with the ear?

SPEAKER_00

He ate it.

SPEAKER_03

What do you think? Threw it at Gol Gon. Honestly, I would back him on that. Yeah. He then wrapped the severed ear and delivered it to a local woman connected to a brothel the two artists had frequented. The following morning, Van Gogh was found unconscious and taken to a hospital where he was treated. Although the ear was recovered and brought to the hospital, the doctor did not attempt to reattach it as too much time had passed. Your next two photos is a clipping from a local newspaper dated December 30th, 1888, reporting Van Gogh cut off his ear.

SPEAKER_00

I love old newspapers, they add stupid shit like this.

SPEAKER_03

And then you have a self-portrait. And you can see he is all bandaged up. Van Gogh was diagnosed with acute mania with generalized delirium, experiencing hallucinations. Within days, local authorities ordered that he remain under hospital care. During the early stages of his treatment, Vincent repeatedly asked for Gogon, unaware that the relationship had effectively ended. Gogon had already left for Paris and instructed a police officer to inform Vincent of this, adding that seeing him might prove harmful. They would never see each other again, though the two continued to correspond. Despite periods of recovery, Van Gogh's mental health remained precarious, suffering from hallucinations and episodes of paranoia, including fears of being poisoned. By March 1889, concern among local residents had escalated to the point that 30 townspeople signed a petition describing him as the red-headed madman.

SPEAKER_00

What was the point of this petition? Was it just to be made? Oh, right, so they were like asking for him to be banished.

SPEAKER_03

As a result, the police closed his house, forcing him back into institutional care. Recognizing the severity of his condition, Van Gogh made the decision to admit himself voluntarily to an asylum in Saint Remy in May 1889. Between February and April 1890, he suffered a severe relapse, yet his work was exhibited in Paris, where Claude Monet reportedly praised it as the best in the show. I know. Around this time he wrote, Sometimes moods of indescribable anguish, sometimes moments when the veil of time and fatality of circumstances seemed to be torn apart for an instant. In May 1890, Vincent left the asylum and moved to Auvers, near Paris, to be closer to Theo and to come under the care of the doctor, Paul Gachette. You can now see a map of Paris and where Auvers is. So it's about an hour north.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, but it's not actually that far, right? It's like 30 kilometers.

SPEAKER_02

And I think a lot of what you said still points to the autism spectrum. I agree. So we're also relying on 1800's descriptions, right? And and so one of the things that stands out for me as well is that, well, I guess firstly, the cutting off of the ear. Um I can understand a point of frustration for somebody who's neurodivergent getting so much to the point that they would hurt themselves. And then also how he what was that guy's name? Gogon. So how Van Gogh thought that him and Gogon maybe were still friends, and then they obviously weren't because he'd like said, right, enough of this, I'm going. Just that maybe lack of like, I guess, social awareness. Yes. And then also a word that you um said that stuck out to me was that he was Van Gogh was described as paranoid. And I'm just wondering about the terminology because I know that so I have crippling anxiety at times. And I think that if someone in the 1800s was trying to describe some of my anxiety and OCD, they may use the word paranoia. So so I'm I'm hedging sort of on this. Yeah. Absolutely agree with you.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Mm-hmm. Great. I haven't you sound surprised. Yay.

SPEAKER_00

Any other armchair psychologists want to write in his redheadspod at gmail.com.

SPEAKER_02

This mirror ain't big enough for both of us. Just me.

SPEAKER_03

Just me. For a time his physical health appeared to improve, and there were moments where his focus on art seemed to steady him. During a visit to Theo and Joe in early July 1890, Vincent learned that Theo was considering leaving his long-standing position at the art dealership he had managed for years in order to start his own business. While this plan represented independence and ambition, it also carried significant risk, as Van Gogh heavily relied on Theo financially.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, he did, diddy, so he also couldn't like function necessarily as an adult, I guess, with the money stuff. This okay. I'm not saying that that's the same across the board, please. Um but it can you know Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00

Why didn't he sell some paintings? No one was buying.

SPEAKER_03

He did try. I think in his life he uh sold one. Oh that's a star. There were others that he like there was others that he, I don't want to say sold because he didn't sell them, he just exchanged them and people gave him a bottle of wine. Let's not forget, Chris, the kind of crap.

SPEAKER_00

They are quite crap.

SPEAKER_03

His early ones were questionable. Yeah. I'm a fan of sunflowers. I'm a fan of the potato eaters. Oh, I'm glad. Because I saw that and I was like, oh, it's not my favorite, but I'm glad that like you like the wall of my house, though.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, I don't know. I could stare at your ages picking out all the bits. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Maybe in the shed? Maybe in the shed.

SPEAKER_02

Says he with copious paintings of pigs around his house.

SPEAKER_00

Like I've got one.

SPEAKER_03

Two.

SPEAKER_00

Two.

SPEAKER_03

Two in this room we're dying.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, good point.

SPEAKER_03

There's a pig on the stand right there.

SPEAKER_02

Pig next to me here. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, this is this is the room we sort of bung everything that we don't actually want to look at day to day.

SPEAKER_02

I don't believe you.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, that is a big pig.

SPEAKER_03

We're not talking about your aloe plan, by the way.

SPEAKER_02

We put them here because the sun hits this in the morning. Alright, whatever. I wouldn't have even thought of it if you hadn't said that there. Don't you have salt shakers for pigs, pig for salt shakers as well? Yep.

SPEAKER_00

Again, this is not stuff I bought for myself. This is when you make a mistake of telling one person you like pigs.

SPEAKER_03

Not one person, my family.

SPEAKER_00

I appreciate the thought, but I like pigs in the sense I would like to one day own a pig. Yeah. It doesn't mean I need everything in my house to be pig related.

SPEAKER_03

You have to tell my family that because they all get you like pigs for the next 75 years.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, we need to commit this too.

SPEAKER_02

Can I tell you I would be a better auntie to your pig than your kids? I will love that pig. I will bring it presents. I will come back to the phone. Yes.

SPEAKER_03

The news deeply unsettled Vincent. See, doesn't like change. No. It's another thing. Uh-huh. Already fragile, he returned to Over's burden with anxiety, internalizing his brother's uncertainty as his own. Writing to Theo around July 10th, he confessed the emotional toll this had taken on him. Once back here, I too still felt very saddened, and had continued to feel the storm that threatens you also weighing upon me. I usually try to be quite good humored, but my life too is attacked at the very root. My step also is faltering. Oh, okay. That's so sad. It's having a little wobble. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Pull himself together.

SPEAKER_03

Theo and Joe wrote back in an effort to reassure and ease him, but a deep pessimism about the future settled over him. Then came July twenty seventh, eighteen ninety. That morning, Van Gogh left the inn after breakfast, carrying his painting supplies and easel.

SPEAKER_02

So is this the same inn that he walked into with his coat tight, quite pale, and said, No, but I have and ran upstairs.

SPEAKER_00

He's been shot, right?

SPEAKER_02

Well, I thought maybe stabbed.

SPEAKER_00

Well, we saw the revolver thing, no?

SPEAKER_02

We're gonna have to find out. Okay. So that but that was after his death, like 48 hours later.

SPEAKER_00

But he would know he'd been shot.

SPEAKER_02

But there would have to be a gun in his room. So if someone else had shot him, why would the revolver have anything to do?

SPEAKER_03

Oh just wait. We'll get there. You can now see a photo of this really cool. I didn't know this existed. That's the front of the inn where he was staying.

SPEAKER_00

It looks like a nice place. They look put together, they've got their best clothes on.

SPEAKER_02

I don't know what year that's from.

SPEAKER_00

Okay.

SPEAKER_02

I'm sorry, everyone looks absolutely terrifying.

SPEAKER_03

Miserable, awful.

SPEAKER_00

That's just Victorians for you.

SPEAKER_03

What happened next has never been conclusively proven. What we know is this. At some point that day, Van Gogh sustained a gunshot wound to his abdomen. Right. Possibly while in a wheat field. Okay. That is important information. Is there a bit of wheat in his wound? I don't know.

SPEAKER_01

Okay.

SPEAKER_03

The bullet entered at an odd angle, deflected off a rib, and lodged inside him without immediately killing him. Right. By nightfall, he returned to the inn, clutching his stomach.

SPEAKER_02

Yes.

SPEAKER_03

That's when he comes in and he walks upstairs.

SPEAKER_02

Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_03

It they left him alone for about an hour, and then it wasn't they heard groaning, they heard sounds of pain and the pain. It was um the innkeeper himself went up and checked on him, and that's when he found him in the state. Right. Doctors were called, Paul Gushet among them, but there was little they could do. It's also worth noting at this point that I don't remember the details, but Paul Goshette had like, I don't want to say military train training, but he was a doctor in a war. So he knew what he was doing, and he was basically like, can't do anything. He lay in bed, sometimes groaning in pain, sometimes smoking his pipe, sometimes silent.

SPEAKER_01

Okay.

SPEAKER_03

Theo arrived later that day. He stayed by his brother's side as the condition worsened. In the early hours of July 29th, Vincent Van Gogh died. His last words were reportedly, the sadness will last forever.

SPEAKER_00

Interesting.

SPEAKER_03

There's now a picture of his death certificate, which Chris, if you don't mind, I have a transcription if you don't mind reading it, because there's French things that I want to look like.

SPEAKER_00

Why do I always get to Because you're brilliant at it? On the 29th of July, 1890, at 10 o'clock in the morning, death certificate of Vincent William van Gogh, artist painter, unmarried, aged 37 years, born on the 30th of March 1853, at Groot Zundert, Holland, who died today at half past one in the morning at the house of Monsieur Revo. Innkeeper.

SPEAKER_03

This is what I wanted you to read it.

SPEAKER_00

Where he was residing temporarily with no fixed domicile, son of Theodora Van Gogh. So his son he was the son of Theo and the brother of Theo. Yes. Okay, many Theos in the story. Uh deceased. And of Anna Cornelia Carbentus, residing at Leiden, Holland. Oh right, so he's the son of those two. Right, gotcha. This record was drawn up on the declaration of Messrs. Theodore Van Gogh, employee and art dealer, aged thirty-three years, brother of the deceased, residing in Paris. Cite Bigal. Number eight, and Arthur Gustave Raveau, hotelier restauranteur, aged forty-one years, residing in this commune, who signed with us Alexandra Cafin, mayor and registrar, after the document was read aloud and the death verified by us.

SPEAKER_03

Thank you very much. Okay. Van Gogh was buried the next day in the cemetery in Auvers. His funeral was modest, but attended by those who had known and supported him.

SPEAKER_00

So he did have supporters.

SPEAKER_03

Very few, but yes. Wow. You'll see now a newspaper clipping. Um, it was a local report of Van Gogh's death and funeral.

SPEAKER_00

I've just seen they call him Van Gogh and then Van Gog. They think they get his name right in his obituary.

SPEAKER_03

You'd think, but as we know from experience doing genealogy, they never spell anybody's name right.

SPEAKER_00

In his obituary, it says he was a Protestant. That's interesting. Oh. I assumed he was a Catholic preacher, missionary kind of Yeah, actually, no, I did read that.

SPEAKER_03

He was brought up in a predominantly Catholic area, but he was one of a few pro Protestant families. When did this obituary come out? August 7th, 1890. So this was like eight days after he died.

SPEAKER_02

And they're already saying it's a suicide. Yes. I didn't actually read that. Why do they think that only eight days after they've already decided it was a suicide?

SPEAKER_03

I'm gonna zip my lip. Plagued by mental illness, financial anxiety, and lifelong instability, Vanga walked into a wheat field and shot himself. On his deathbed, he confessed to his brother, to doctors, and to the police. That's why. Okay. No one was accused, no one was charged. His final days appeared consistent with a man who had reached the end of what he could bear. Even the imagery of his final paintings, stormy skies over endless wheat fields, seemed to echo that inner turmoil. It is thought that Wheatfield with Cro was his last work, which is what you can see now.

SPEAKER_00

I really like that one.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Meh.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, you don't think that's Oh, I can see that on my on the walls of the house. No?

SPEAKER_02

I'll paint it for you, babe.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, really? I like the crows as well. It's giving, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

It's giving murder.

SPEAKER_00

It is. When do you know that's his last one? Do you think he knew that was his last one?

SPEAKER_03

Oh some pretty cool symbolism.

SPEAKER_00

It is actually.

SPEAKER_03

I did not pick up on that.

SPEAKER_02

Very proud of you.

SPEAKER_00

Maybe he's saying he was actually murder.

SPEAKER_02

Why are you proud of Chris? I'm the one that said murder.

SPEAKER_03

I'm proud of you. I'm so much more prouder of you.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03

You're welcome. And so the case was closed. Vincent Van Gogh died by suicide. He admitted it. Theo himself was already suffering from syphilis, and the emotional toll of Vincent's death accelerated his decline. Oh. He died just six months later on January 25th, 1891.

SPEAKER_00

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_03

Initially buried in Utrecht, his body was later exhumed in 1914 by his wife and reinterred beside Vincent in Auvers. So you can see the first photo is Theo's grave in Utrecht, and then the more recent one is them side by side.

SPEAKER_00

So they both died pretty young. I mean, I know one shot himself. Yeah, wild.

SPEAKER_03

As we know, Van Gogh went out into a wheat field on July 27th carrying a revolver. At some point during the day, he shot himself and managed to walk over a mile back to the inn where he was staying, climbed the stairs to his room, and remained there until he was discovered. According to the innkeeper's daughter, Adeline Raveau, who was twelve at the time, he returned around 9 p.m., clutching his abdomen and struggling to speak. This version of events has been accepted for over a century, largely because of several key factors. First, there was Van Gogh's own words. Multiple witnesses, including doctors, police officers, and Theo, reported that he explicitly stated he had shot himself. When questioned, he insisted that no one else should be blamed, saying, Do not accuse anyone, it is I who wanted to kill myself. He also reportedly told authorities, My body is mine and I'm free to do with it what I like. These statements have historically been treated as the most direct and compelling evidence for suicide.

SPEAKER_00

Also, come back to our bodily autonomy episode. Is his body his to do with what he wants?

SPEAKER_02

Well, no.

SPEAKER_00

No, there we go. Also, am I picking down nope, picking up what you're putting down?

SPEAKER_03

Seems like a weird thing to do if you're she's suggesting it's too far. Second, Van Gogh's mental health history strongly supports the possibility of suicide. Throughout his life, he experienced severe psychological distress, including depressive episodes, emotional instability, hallucinations, and periods of what doctors described as acute mania with generalized delirium. He had mutilated his own ear. He had written about despair and loneliness and had even mentioned suicide in letters, though he described it as immoral. His physicians believed he suffered from a neurological or psychiatric disorder, though its exact nature remains unknown.

SPEAKER_02

Autism.

SPEAKER_03

Could be. Modern interpretations have suggested conditions such as epilepsy or bipolar disorder, though no definitive diagnosis exists.

SPEAKER_02

Wasn't manic enough for bipolar.

SPEAKER_03

Chopping off your own ear?

SPEAKER_02

Eh, I guess. But I'm not seeing the highs. Fair enough.

SPEAKER_03

Could that be I I don't know, I'm just throwing it out there. Could the highs be where he was painting a painting a day?

SPEAKER_00

Because those paintings look pretty mental.

SPEAKER_02

That did feel manic because purely because of how many did in such a short period of time as well. Maybe. Um and you yeah, sometimes mania, I don't know. It tends to lead to quite self-destructive things, that kind of mania as well. But then everybody's different, isn't it? So And there wasn't, I mean, we wouldn't know, I guess, but alcoholism or anything like that. I don't know. But it's a possibility. I mean the thing is, yes, everything that happened certainly could, you know, lead to us believing that he committed suicide or could lead to him committing suicide, but it isn't evidence. What is evidence is the fact that he told everybody he did. But then was he covering for someone? But then I haven't heard anybody in your story that I would believe he would have cared enough about to have covered up for. Unless Gogun came back.

SPEAKER_00

Gogan, uh but Gogun sounds like the like sensible one though. I don't think you'd be shooting people.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, you could I I maybe you'd had enough.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Fuck off.

SPEAKER_03

Did Well they never met they never saw each other again. Right.

SPEAKER_02

That we know of. Okay. That we know of.

SPEAKER_03

Did we recover the revolver? It's a fantastic question. Which we're getting to. I'm full of them.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_03

His struggles were compounded by substance use, particularly absinthe. He was also known. Yeah. Okay. He was also known for heavy smoking, excessive coffee consumption, poor nutrition, and periods of fasting. Oh. All of which likely contributed to malnutrition and declining health.

SPEAKER_00

He's ringing some bells.

SPEAKER_03

For what?

SPEAKER_00

Excessive smoking, alcoholism. Excuse me.

SPEAKER_02

I didn't say alcoholism. I feel attacked. That was so mean. Um, so yeah, there's definitely mania going on. There's definitely neurodivergence going on. Um, yeah, he's just he's just an unwell man, isn't he? Why would anyone shoot themselves in the stomach?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, right?

SPEAKER_03

Weird.

SPEAKER_02

It's a bit weird.

SPEAKER_00

And then not just die nicely in a wheat field, walk back to an inn over a mile.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Uh uh okay. Some historians have even suggested lead poisoning from his paints as he used to like chew the end of his paintbrushes, or the possibility that he ingested pigments, which may have contributed to seizures. Ah, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, I just feel like all artists would have been doing that at the time. Potentially.

SPEAKER_00

But he was painting like a painting a day, right?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, to a point.

SPEAKER_03

Consuming a lot more. Yes. Mm-hmm. Uh-huh.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_03

Episodes of self-harm further reinforce this, most famously the incident when he cut off part of his ear. His letters from this period reveal a man who's both productive but deeply, deeply troubled. At times he expressed calm and even optimism, but at others he wrote about fear, uncertainty, and the growing sense that his future was bleak. In one letter he wrote, I feel like a failure, the prospect grows darker, I see no happy future at all. I know. Because of this combination of personal testimony and psychological context, many scholars, including researchers affiliated with the Van Gogh Museum, continue to view suicide as the most plausible explanation. Researchers have argued that the sequence of events is defensible both psychologically and historically, particularly when Van Gogh's own perspective on his life is taken into account. Despite its longstanding acceptance, the suicide narrative is not without its inconsistencies. One of the most significant issues is the absence of the weapon. The revolver Van Gogh supposedly used was never found. If he shot himself, why was the gun not recovered? Did he leave it behind? And if so, why was it never located?

SPEAKER_00

See, I'm imagining if I shot myself in the stomach, I'd immediately go, oh shit, ow, wow, wow, wow, wow.

SPEAKER_03

And drop it.

SPEAKER_00

And drop it.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But I guess why wouldn't they have recovered it?

SPEAKER_02

If it's in the middle of a wheat field, how likely is it they are gonna recover it?

SPEAKER_00

I guess.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, but if you think about it, back at the beginning, we say he left the inn with his paint supplies and easel. So if he's out there painting, let's say theoretically, and he goes to shoot himself, neither the painting supplies nor the revolver were ever recovered.

SPEAKER_01

Hmm.

SPEAKER_03

Well if that marinade a minute.

SPEAKER_02

Well, that doesn't make any sense. Okay. Why? Well, because they would have been. So either he didn't he didn't leave the inn with his easel and his paints, and he just went to shoot himself.

SPEAKER_00

It's not like it's something if someone robbed him, they'd be nicked, would they? You wouldn't nick someone.

SPEAKER_02

Well, actually, that's a really good point. Maybe. Maybe they were. Maybe. Maybe they were. Maybe someone followed him for his easel and paints and robbed him and shot him. He would have just said that though. Yeah, he would have. He would have just said. He would have been like, go get my paints and my easel.

SPEAKER_00

Unless he was like a major well, he was a preacher, wasn't he? So he was obviously somewhat religious in that he'd be like, Well, I'm gonna die anyway. Is there any point getting someone into trouble?

SPEAKER_02

Nah.

SPEAKER_00

Nah.

SPEAKER_02

And if you were gonna go along that way with the religious stuff, why would he kill himself? Because it's the same.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that's well, what I'm saying is maybe he didn't kill himself. Maybe someone else killed him and he didn't want to get someone in trouble for killing him, so he was like, don't look into it. I did this, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Maybe that's long short. Go on, hit me.

SPEAKER_03

This missing evidence has been a central point of doubt for later researchers. There's also the absence of a suicide note. And I'm not stating that there has to be one, but considering that Van Gogh was a prolific writer who produced hundreds of letters, many described as having a diary-like intimacy, the lack of a final written message is notable.

SPEAKER_00

But I guess he wouldn't have known he wouldn't die. Yeah, sorry. Okay.

SPEAKER_03

While not definitive proof of anything, it adds another layer of ambiguity to the case, especially given how often he used writing to process his emotions. However, in 2011, a new theory brought renewed attention to these inconsistencies. Okay. Biographers, Stephen Nafa and Gregory Whitesmith, in their book Van Gogh the Life, proposed that he may not have shot himself at all. Instead, they argued that he may have been accidentally shot by teenage boys. Okay.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, that would give me more reason to think that he may cover up for them if they were teenagers and he doesn't want to get them in trouble, fine. There was a little bit that stood out to me as well where he said, It's my body, I can do with it what I like. It just felt like that felt like overexplaining it.

SPEAKER_00

And it's not consistent with him being religious either. Because the whole point of like, you're not meant to kill yourself is it's not your body, it's like this was given to you by blah blah blah. Mm-hmm. Okay.

SPEAKER_03

According to NAFA, the accepted understanding of what happened in Auvers among the people who knew him was that he was killed accidentally by a couple of boys and he decided to protect them by accepting the blame. This claim is supported, at least in part, by the earlier work of art historian John Rowald, who visited Auvers in the 1930s and reported hearing persistent local rumors that Van Gogh had been shot accidentally. These rumors indicate that even within living memory of the event, there were doubts about the official version of suicide. Central to the murder theory are two figures, Rene and Gaston Secreton, teenage brothers who were spending the summer in Auvers in 1890. Decades later, in a 1956 interview, Rene described his interactions with Van Gogh. He recalled that he and his brother would frequently encounter the artist and by his own admission, torment him. Oh. They put salt in his coffee and chili on his brushes. They mocked him and even brought women to tease him with staged flirtations. Interesting.

SPEAKER_00

That's so mean. It is. It's definitely giving me the vibe that he was autistic there. Yes. If you they were like, lol, let's get some women to pretend they're into him.

SPEAKER_02

They noticed that he's vulnerable. He's a bit weaker than them.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. And the thing is, so I've not seen this in any other source except for the BuzzFeed Unsolved episode about this. They say Renee was kind of the one who like went at him, where Gaston, I think that's the right way around. Fact check me later. Gaston actually was more friendly to Van Gogh and wanted to be a painter and kind of like was shadowing him and wanting to be Van Gogh. But in everything I read online, because I knew that before I researched, and then everything I read said both of them had gone after Van Gogh. So I'm a little confused on like the dynamics. I I don't know.

SPEAKER_00

It's hard to know what happened in a winfield.

SPEAKER_03

Okay. Van Gogh, already isolated and emotionally fragile, was in Sekreton's words, a lonely man who craved company, making him an easy target for their harassment. Secreton also admitted that he owned a pistol during that summer. Is that different to a revolver? I realize that now. I don't know if it's. Well, yeah, that's true. How do they Could it be based off the bullet? It could be, because they said it lodged in his stomach. Yeah. So they had the bullet. Maybe it was a pistol, maybe he forgot, maybe he just carried a gun and it was a revolver and he was covering his tracks. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02

I don't know either. But I am wondering, look, if that happened and he's been accidentally shot, we haven't even got yet to the actual like how was it accidental and what even happened. But let's just say that that's what happened. Why is Van Gogh then going upstairs to lie on his own and groan in pain for the next 48 hours? Or well, which he ended up doing, but why isn't he just going to someone and saying This happened? Yeah, why isn't he looking for help? It I feel like if he meant to kill himself, then that explains him not finding help because he's just gone upstairs to die. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And also if it was an accident, why wouldn't rather than say you kill tried to kill yourself, why wouldn't you just say you accidentally shot yourself? Mm-hmm. Like not it doesn't massively add up. None of it does. Why are you accidentally being shot and then not finding help? Yeah. Unless he going back to the religious thing, did he think it was his time? Maybe.

SPEAKER_00

If he's been shot, maybe just lost a lot of blood and the floor. Okay.

SPEAKER_02

Yes. Yes, good point. Okay.

SPEAKER_03

We'll find out.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_03

Well, I hope we will. I don't know. We have him on the phone. Let's call him up from the grave. He claimed that Van Gogh may have taken the gun from him, but this assertion has been viewed with skepticism. The alternative interpretation proposed by Naifa and Smith is that the gun remained in the boys' possession and was discharged during an encounter with Van Gogh. The boys were reportedly fascinated by American cowboy culture, inspired by popular spectacles of of the time, such as Buffalo Bill's Wild West show, and would act out scenarios involving firearms. As NAFA later suggested, the shooting may have occurred while they were playing cowboy, with the situation escalating unexpectedly.

SPEAKER_02

I can imagine more that if they've been maybe threatening him or playing big boy with the gun. And he's just snapped. Yeah. And he's just been like, fuck you guys. And he's like tried to chase them or tried to grab the gun off them and it goes off. It's gone off. Well, they've pulled the trigger in fright or whatever. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I can imagine that actually, because if you grabbed a gun and the guy was still holding onto it and like pulled it towards you, it would be like about there, wouldn't it?

SPEAKER_02

Aye, good point.

SPEAKER_03

It would be around your torso area. According to NAFA, Vanga was not in a wheat field at the moment he was shot, but rather closer to the village, possibly in a farmyard that was closer to the inn than the wheat field. Okay. Which would explain like why would you walk a mile to the inn? Where if he was in a farmyard near a barn, it was suggested. It was right near the inn.

SPEAKER_02

Maybe he's there because he's chased the boys away and he's chasing them. And then they get into a fraccar.

SPEAKER_03

A what?

SPEAKER_02

A frack. Yes. Still know what you said about it. Like a scuffle. A scuffle. Thank you. Sorry, I only mean to know the word fruckar.

SPEAKER_00

Love it.

SPEAKER_03

One account describes a shot being fired from a distance, striking him at a low, oblique angle, details that align with later forensic concerns about the wound.

SPEAKER_00

And how would you describe an oblique angle?

SPEAKER_03

I didn't actually Google this and I meant to. That was and then I thought, actually, Christopher can do that for me. No idea. Google it.

SPEAKER_02

You should know Chris. Yeah, you should. Is it like very downwards?

SPEAKER_00

Very downwards. Yes. Any angle that is not a right angle, a straight angle or a multiple of 90 degrees, so it's like a What I'm hearing is I'm right.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, a weird angle.

SPEAKER_00

Not perpendicular.

SPEAKER_03

Great, fine. The boys, realizing what had happened, may have panicked and fled the scene, taking the weapon with them. This would provide a plausible explanation for why the gun was never recovered. Some have suggested that along with the gun, Van Gogh's painting supplies may have been disposed of, possibly thrown into the nearby river, as they were also never recovered. Yeah. The Secretan brothers reportedly left the village that day. Did they?

SPEAKER_00

Interesting.

SPEAKER_03

Why'd they go? No idea. If the accidental shooting theory is true, this could account for Van Gogh's own statements when he reportedly insisted, do not accuse anyone, it is I who wanted to kill myself. Rather than taking this as a literal confession, proponents of the murder theory interpret it as an act of protection. Naifa and Smith argue that Van Gogh, aware of the boys' involvement, chose to shield them from legal consequences. At the time, both homicide and assisting in a suicide carried serious legal penalties, and even attempted suicide itself was considered both immoral and criminal. Some interpretations even suggest he may have viewed the incident as an inevitable end. What one biographer described as accepting death as something that had been done for him. The nature of the wound also complicates the suicide theory. Reports indicate that the bullet entered his abdomen at an oblique angle, which is not typical of a self-inflicted gunshot wound. Later analysis by forensic expert Vincent DeMaio suggests that the positioning required to produce such a wound would have been awkward and unnatural. Additionally, there were no clearly documented signs of gunpowder burns on his skin, which would normally be expected if the shot had been fired at close range.

SPEAKER_02

It would, and on his hands.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I'm not buying it because if it it's imagining it's pointing at you like like well, at the 45 degree angle at your chest. That's not if you're trying to kill yourself, you wouldn't do that, right? If it's deflecting off his rib, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03

You'd have to be pretty stupid.

SPEAKER_00

Or just like in a mania, like you say.

SPEAKER_03

Well, experimental reconstructions have suggested that such a shot would likely leave visible residue, raising further doubts. Based on this, DeMaio concluded that in all medical probability, the wound incurred by Van Gogh was not self-inflicted. It should be noted that DeMaio conducted this analysis at the request of NAFA and Smith and did so without having access to the body, the bullet, or the gun. Oh well.

SPEAKER_00

So ignore it. Yes.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. However, this theory remains highly contested. Experts at the Van Gogh Museum have argued that the evidence for accidental shooting or murder is weak and largely based on retrospective speculation. They emphasize that nothing substantiates the claim beyond later rumors, and that Van Gogh's own statements, letters, and psychological condition still make suicide the more convincing explanation. Ultimately, the debate remains unresolved because of a lack of physical evidence. There is no gun, no bullet, no autopsy report, and only limited medical documentation from the time. Some researchers have suggested that a modern forensic examination, including a possible exhumation, could provide new insights. This has never been carried out and it remains uncertain whether it ever will be. More than a century later, the truth about his death remains elusive. Tell me what you think happened.

SPEAKER_02

I think he killed himself.

SPEAKER_03

Okay. Why?

SPEAKER_02

I think that you have to work too hard to make some things make sense. If he didn't, I think it's just the most simple solution. Occam's razor. Yeah, and uh I'm trying to think about the paints and the easel that weren't found. I just dunno how much I buy that.

unknown

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02

Okay. I mean, like, I imagine whoever said that they saw him leave with them that morning was mistaken. He didn't have them with him. He's gone out to kill himself with his gun, and that's all he had. And then I imagine that just Theo took his art stuff after he died with him home?

SPEAKER_03

Mm-hmm. What do you think?

SPEAKER_00

See, I'm imagining the kids playing around with a gun, some sort of scuffle happens, they accidentally shoot him. Or on purpose shoot him. And they're like, Oh fuck, what have we done? He collapses. They think, Oh shit, what do we do? Uh oh god, this his easel's got blood all over it, and maybe I d I don't know, maybe they get rid of it. And they think he's just gonna die there, so they just leave him.

SPEAKER_03

I I agree. I am leaning more towards the accental shooting.

SPEAKER_00

I just don't know if he was gonna kill himself, which is already like why if he's so such a Protestant, he was a preacher, blah blah blah. Had he like mentioned suicide at all? Yeah, in his letters. Okay.

SPEAKER_03

But then he described it as being immoral. Right.

SPEAKER_00

So why would he go ahead with that if he was so convinced it was moral?

SPEAKER_02

I don't know, you don't have to be you're not in your rational mind.

SPEAKER_03

Absolutely not.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Sometimes the pain's too much and you make that decision.

SPEAKER_00

But if you wanted to kill yourself, why would you shoot yourself in your tummy?

SPEAKER_02

I don't know how bright he was. Don't know. He wasn't good with his finances, he couldn't stick in. Yeah, but you don't you have to have like street smarts and art smarts for that. You don't have to, you know, know that shooting yourself in the stomach isn't gonna kill you. True.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I mean, judging by the potato peelers, who wasn't that potato eaters. Potato eaters.

SPEAKER_03

Keep saying potato peeler. Do I?

SPEAKER_00

Oh no. That's all right.

SPEAKER_03

Just say it like three times now and Jacob can just replace it. Potato eaters? No.

SPEAKER_00

Potato eaters? Potato eaters. Potato eaters. What is it? It's potato eaters. Oh, it is potato eaters. Oh gosh. You're welcome.

SPEAKER_03

In the years following his death, the life and work of Vincent Van Gogh began to capture the public imagination, transforming him into a lasting symbol of the misunderstood artistic genius. Much of his recognition can be credited to the efforts of his sister-in-law, Joe, who played a decisive role in preserving and promoting his legacy at a time when his work was largely overlooked. The most comprehensive primary source on Van Gogh remains his extensive correspondence with his brother Theo. Their lifelong exchange of letters spanning from 1872 to 1890 offers an intimate record of Vincent's thoughts, artistic theories, and emotional struggles. After both brothers had died, Joe undertook the task of editing and publishing the letters. A selection appeared in 1906 and 1913, with the majority published in 1914. You can see the first edition of Vincent's letters to Theo. Although many were undated, art historians have painstakingly reconstructed their chronology, despite ongoing challenges, particularly with letters written during Van Gogh's time in Arles, where he wrote in Dutch, French, and English. On March 17, 1901, a Paris exhibition showcased 72 of Van Gogh's paintings, dramatically increasing his reputation, and his mother survived long enough to witness him being celebrated. Recognition has even extended beyond Earth, with Minor Planet 4457 Van Gogh named in his honor. Wow. Would you like a planet named after you?

SPEAKER_00

I would.

SPEAKER_03

Nice.

SPEAKER_02

After I broke up with a long-term ex, I was stalking his new girlfriend's Instagram.

SPEAKER_03

Oh goodness.

SPEAKER_02

And I found out or saw that he had purchased her a star.

SPEAKER_00

Oh no.

SPEAKER_02

And I kind of went off the idea.

SPEAKER_00

That's pretty weird. I would only like one named after me if I discovered it. Or like I went to it first.

SPEAKER_03

In the 20th century, his nephew, also Vincent Willem van Gogh.

SPEAKER_00

They weren't very inventive, were they? Two Theos, two Vinces.

SPEAKER_03

Theo named his son after his brother.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, that's quite cute. And then died.

SPEAKER_03

Yep.

unknown

Nice.

SPEAKER_03

Played a crucial role in consolidating the family collection and working with the Dutch government to establish a permanent home for his uncle's work. This effort culminated in the opening of the Van Gogh Museum in Amsterdam in 1973, where today it tracks millions of Visitors annually. And I got yelled at by a security card because I thought I could take a picture, and there was no signage of setting no picture of anyone. You're gonna go out. And I'm like, I'm very sorry.

SPEAKER_00

Oh my god, tell me about it. Such embarrassment.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Let's try the recipe. Was it peanuts or something? Almonds or something that we're selling. Let's try and let's try and so five.

SPEAKER_03

The suicide theory continues to be the most widely accepted explanation. Yeah, but at the same time, the accidental shooting theory raises valid questions that cannot be fully answered with the evidence available. What remains is a case where the official explanation is plausible, but not beyond doubt, and where the possibility of something more complicated continues to linger. In that uncertainty, the final moments of Vincent Van Gogh remain as haunting and unresolved as many of his paintings. I can do nothing about it if my paintings don't sell.

SPEAKER_02

I really do not rate them at all.

SPEAKER_03

Like, what is it? You think what you think?

SPEAKER_02

I think the potato ears is amazing, and I think that people obviously dim to shine, dim to social, social commentary, dim to stalk, eerie stuff. Maybe that's what you're missing. Because he wasn't able to properly express himself in the way he wanted to.

SPEAKER_03

Absolutely. Take away. You think he shot himself? Yes. And you think he was shot. I agree. I think he was shot.

SPEAKER_00

Okay.

SPEAKER_03

But this is I only thought you were gonna be like the other way around. This is so interesting. I have to try it to make stuff make sense. You know what convinced me. The Bugs We don't solve episode. Okay, go and watch it. And I honestly I didn't watch it going into this. Like I've seen it multiple times because half the time I just run them in the background. I think I covered everything that they mentioned, but I remember watching it the first time and being like, oh my god, I'm convinced. Wow, like genuinely I am convinced. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I love that moment in a case and you just go, hang on.

SPEAKER_03

Sold it from me. Exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00

The thing that convinced me was I didn't hear any rebuttal from the people that don't think it's murder. Like actually about the boys themselves or the teenagers or the gun or any of the evidence. It's all just like, well, no, he told the police and killed themselves. I think he told her before. So that's the only explanation. I didn't hear anything saying like none of these events couldn't have happened because an actual bottle contradicts it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I haven't really heard anything that's substantial that contradicts suicide either. I know the weird stomach thing, but I just don't think he was that yeah, in small, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

He did chop his hair off.

SPEAKER_02

You can be very intelligent and chop your depending on my wedding day.

SPEAKER_03

Independent.com Highly National I have medicine. Britannica and Comes, The Guardian. I have the independent twice. Vincent and Go.org. Biography.com. A reevaluation of the death of Vincent and Gogh, suicide or murder, the need for a definitive autopsy.

SPEAKER_02

Episode. Thank you so much. I live a lot.

SPEAKER_03

You're welcome.

SPEAKER_02

Tune next week for a real good tale.

SPEAKER_01

I'm passionate about this case.