Red Herrings
Where history gets messy and the law gets loud.
Brittany and Joccoaa take turns serving up shocking crimes and unforgettable legal battles. One brings the past, the other brings the courtroom — and together, they bring the chaos.
It’s smart, a little unhinged, and full of twists you won’t see coming.
Red Herrings
An Art Heist
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Welcome to Red Herrings!
This week, Brittany tells us about a conspiracy to steal...
Hosted by: Brittany Warren & Joccoaa Gray
Sound Engineer & Co-host: Christopher Brown
Edited by: Joccoaa Gray
If you would like to get in touch, please contact us at redherringspod@gmail.com.
Sources:
Buzzfeed Unsolved
Welcome to Red Herrings. I'm Jacoa, Master's student in law and human rights, host of True Crime Club Newcastle, and creator of True Crime Forum Newcastle.
SPEAKER_03Hi, I'm Brittany. I have two degrees in history and 15 years experience in genealogy. We're the red herrings.
SPEAKER_00Well, well, well. What do we have here? Two red herrings and the catch of the day. Don't forget about me.
SPEAKER_02Hi, Chris! We're the red herrings.
SPEAKER_00And Chris.
SPEAKER_02Oh, we should say we have a special guest today.
SPEAKER_01Hello, welcome. Hi everyone. Uh, I've been here before, but not with Whitney.
SPEAKER_03No, I missed you.
SPEAKER_01I missed you too.
SPEAKER_03I was away. I was in over the ocean somewhere.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Over the pond.
SPEAKER_03Over the pond.
SPEAKER_02This is Nuha. Our dear dear friend. Special friend.
SPEAKER_00Very special friend.
SPEAKER_03So we have a very neon blue drink in front of us, a cocktail, according to chat ChatGPT. Because I scrolled for so long on the internet trying to find what I was looking for and I couldn't find it. Have you heard of Mondrian?
SPEAKER_02No.
SPEAKER_03He was an artist who did more like modern art. I really don't know anything off the top of my head by him. But our case today revolves around art.
SPEAKER_02Yay.
SPEAKER_03Off the back of that, who is your favorite artist, or what's your favorite piece of work if you guys have one? Well, I don't We know Chris is.
SPEAKER_00Oh, I just love him so much. Really? A lot of his early work, you know, potato peelers.
SPEAKER_02Are you being sarcastic, or do you actually love Garth?
SPEAKER_00I just love his beard, honestly.
SPEAKER_02He didn't have one. He did in his poetry. The look on Chris's face was fantastic.
SPEAKER_04Heartbroken.
SPEAKER_02So I did a photography degree, so I'm probably better at answering who my favourite photographers are. Still an artist?
SPEAKER_00Unfortunately, that's not what we asked.
SPEAKER_03It's still an art, Christopher. Um, artist. Oh, I like Turner with the ships. Oh, I love Turner. He was in my uh master's dissertation. Nice.
SPEAKER_00I do love a Turner. We went to go see it in Newcastle, didn't we?
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Oh favorite. Um who so go on, guys. Yeah. Favourite artists?
SPEAKER_00Oh, favourite artist. Um I like the one the ones with the dots. You know when you like? Yeah, possibly.
SPEAKER_03Oh, no, no, no, no. You're thinking uh um Oh, Andy Warhol. No popart. Pop art, who's that? No, not pop art. Oh, that's Andy Warhol, but the dots, like uh, it's not Monet or Mana, it's one of them around that time.
SPEAKER_00Also, we went to go and see a Monet, didn't we? And I was underwhelmed. It was a tiny lemon.
SPEAKER_02Ah.
SPEAKER_00It was like five centimetres by five centimetres. It wasn't worth going to see, personally.
SPEAKER_02That's how I feel about the Mona Lisa. Have you seen it? Yeah. It's quite small. Yeah, ickle. She doesn't even have eyebrows. Does she not? She used to be smiling and she's not anymore, apparently. This is a Mandela effect situation.
SPEAKER_00And it's not always about the size as well.
SPEAKER_02Fair enough, Chris. Sorry if I limited you. Nuha?
SPEAKER_01Well, I'm not.
SPEAKER_02Oh wait, I have one. Sorry. How could I forget Frida Carlo? She's my favourite artist. Frida Carlo. Yes. Sorry. Carry on.
SPEAKER_03The other cocktail we were gonna do was based off Frida, but it had pineapple juice in it, and I really don't care for pineapple, so I vetoed it. Very sorry.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_01Nuha, sorry, I interrupted. I just like a bit of Monet. Such a basic bitch. I know I'm not a big art scene. That's okay. But I've uh I visited like uh the Cardiff Museum, and yeah, I was impressed by the impressionists. But yeah, I'm quite limited in that.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_03Nice. Well maybe today we'll open your eyes a little bit.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um what did you think of Van Gogh? Because you know, you did listen to some of our podcast episode on Goffie, and um she made she said we shouldn't be separating the art from the artist because he was uh perv. Bit problematic. Because it did come up in the episode that we did a little bit about the he was like not allowed to have models work from any more. And when Nuha was saying it, I was like, that actually completely passed me by in the episode. I didn't even pick up on it really at all.
SPEAKER_03I was so surprised, like we kind of just jumped over it.
SPEAKER_02Like we didn't really talk about it, and I was like, all right, moving on, like there's a lot more to talk about. I think it was maybe just so unsurprised, I guess. Just like, oh yeah, it's just another man knocking up his model. Yeah, whatever. Yeah. But as I was re-listening to that episode, sorry about this tangent, but does that mean that there's like illegitimate children?
SPEAKER_03We don't actually know if she got pregnant by him. We don't know. But something I did not bring in at all because it was not relevant to what I was talking about, he actually did have a relationship with another woman, and supposedly it was like at first rumored that the child she was that she had was Van Gogh's. But if you like look at the timeline, it doesn't quite make sense. So like it's right on that border where like maybe she if she gave birth prematurely, it could have been his, but if not, like it was just it's slightly off, so no one really knows. No one knows, okay. Interesting. Yeah, sorry about that.
SPEAKER_02As we're still talking about awe anyway, yes. Could bring it back up, I guess.
SPEAKER_03So you guys might have heard about this.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_03I hadn't heard about it until a little while ago, like maybe a few years ago, five, six, seven years ago, something like that. So the Isabella Stewart Gardner Museum in Boston, Massachusetts, was a lifelong passion project of Boston art collector. Funny enough, Isabella Stewart Gardner, named after herself. Goals.
SPEAKER_00Is Stuart her middle name?
SPEAKER_03I w I don't know, but I want to say it was her maiden name, but I haven't actually like looked it up.
SPEAKER_00Oh, okay. I mean, iconic name for a girl.
SPEAKER_03Woman Stuart.
SPEAKER_00Do we know that she was a woman?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, you'll see a photo of her at the very end.
SPEAKER_00She was probably a girl at some point.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Yeah. Designed to resemble a Venetian palace, the museum opened to the public in 1903, and house Gardner's extraordinary collection of paintings, sculptures, rare books, and historical artifacts gathered from around the world.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_03Before her death in 1924, Gardner stipulated that the collection should remain exactly as she had arranged it, ensuring that the museum would preserve not only the artworks themselves, but also her unique vision for generations to come. Okay. And did it? You'll have to wait and find out. I love your questions though, but it's like I want to answer so badly, but I can't.
SPEAKER_00Did it burn down?
SPEAKER_02Well, oh that's so weird. I was thinking that. Oh. I was thinking I was about to say I bet it burned down, and I just didn't say decided not to say it.
SPEAKER_03Have you actually, like, none of you have heard about this? No. Oh, we signed it.
SPEAKER_00We solved it. And she did it herself.
SPEAKER_01Oh, maybe for insurance.
SPEAKER_03Oh. Or it was an intimidated man. Oh.
SPEAKER_00It's usually a man.
SPEAKER_03Bango. Just after midnight, on March 18th, 1990, two men arrived at the building claiming to be police officers.
SPEAKER_02Oh.
SPEAKER_03To the guards inside, they appeared to be ordinary cops. But as the doors opened, a chain of events began that would turn a quiet night shift into one of the most puzzling crimes in history. Ooh, I'm so ready. At approximately 124 AM, two men dressed in Boston police uniforms approached the side entrance and buzzed for attention. They told the security guards they were responding to a report of a disturbance nearby and needed to come inside. He believed that St. Patrick's Day Revelers had jumped the fence and gotten onto the property. The officers entered calmly, but almost immediately one of them said to Abbat, You look familiar. I think we have a default warrant out on you. Come out here and show us some identification. And so Abbit stepped away from the one place that mattered most. And they locked the doors behind him. The security desk containing the panic button. As Abbit complied, the man revealed a shocking truth. He was not a police officer. I think we all saw that coming.
SPEAKER_00I hope he did it dramatically. Actually, I'm not a police officer.
SPEAKER_03You know what he says though? It's my next line. This is a robbery, he announced. He literally says, This is a robbery.
SPEAKER_00Love it.
SPEAKER_03I felt so silly writing that day. I'm like, I think we all know at this point something fishy is going on. Within moments, both guards were handcuffed, their heads and eyes were wrapped with tape. Oh my god. And they were led to the basement.
SPEAKER_02Oh shit.
SPEAKER_03With the guards restrained and secured against pipes and fixtures, and the building under their control, the thieves began moving through the galleries. They worked deliberately, taking their time as they selected valuable pieces from the walls. Whoa. For the next eighty-one minutes, the museum's silent halls became the scene of one of the most daring art thefts ever attempted.
SPEAKER_00Oh my goodness.
SPEAKER_02And this is 1990.
SPEAKER_031990.
SPEAKER_02It's not that long ago. It's not like it's wow, they didn't have better security at that point. Oh, we get into it. Because the Mona Lisa thing happened way before that. Yeah. So you would think art museums would have a bit more about them. Sorry. She's what?
SPEAKER_00I can hear.
SPEAKER_03Sorry, my nose is stuffed because of all the pollen outside.
SPEAKER_02Sorry, continue. Yeah, I'm very familiar with Britney's nasal breathing. Sorry.
SPEAKER_03You need to tell me at the time, be like, just don't breathe. Okay, I'll say I'll breathe back here. What were you going what were you in the middle of saying before he said I breathe?
SPEAKER_00Sorry, you were saying about Mona Lisa, weren't you?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, security with Mona Lisa.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so you would think that art museums would have better security by now. Mm-hmm. You think. But then again, that wasn't there a big robbery just at the Louvre like a few months ago. Yeah. Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_00Oh, we should do a podcast on that.
SPEAKER_02Forgot about that.
SPEAKER_00Have they been like convicted now?
SPEAKER_02Oh god not.
SPEAKER_00Fuck Satan.
SPEAKER_02I'm so leaving that in.
SPEAKER_00I shouldn't give you this ammunition.
SPEAKER_03Please don't do that while I'm drinking.
SPEAKER_00Okay, sorry. I wanted to say that they put a 23-year-old guard in charge of security for an entire building. What do you think they were saying to each other when they were tied to the pipes for an hour and a half? Just like, well, we felt that one out.
SPEAKER_03I think their mouths were taped shut.
SPEAKER_00But in that case, do you like mumble to each other? Do you go mmm? Or you just stay still for an hour and a half.
SPEAKER_02What do you do?
SPEAKER_03I think the other guard, I didn't write down because he was really not as like I think he was like also like mid mid-20s, maybe 25-ish.
SPEAKER_02Just the other guards just like rolling his eyes constantly. This guy. Yeah. I guess you would you would start trying to unfree to free yourself. Yeah. Getting out, I guess. Because you would be thinking, like, are they gonna kill us? Yeah. We we know who they are. Uh-huh. We know their faces. They're gonna kill us.
SPEAKER_00You'd be thinking if they've already tied us up, w they would have killed us already, right? Yes. But yeah, you might not want to free yourself and give an excuse to, would you?
SPEAKER_03Motion detectors inside recorded the first sign of activity at 1 48 a.m. in the Dutch room on the second floor. This suggests that the robbers entered the Dutch room 13 minutes after the guards were tied up. I didn't include this, I totally forget. Obviously, go back 13 minutes, but like they do know the exact time the guards were tied up.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_03Perhaps they were checking if any alarms had been triggered, but waiting for what? We really don't know. We don't know why it took them 13 minutes to get from the basement to the second floor. Fag break? Oh, it could be. I mean, if they spent 81 minutes doing this, like they were taking their time.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, they were, weren't they? They knew they had insider information, right? They knew they no one was coming.
SPEAKER_00Um did the guard get any like description of what they look like? Did we know their rough age or anything?
SPEAKER_02Well, yeah, we talked about it. It's gonna get to that. No, just not gonna. Yeah, I'm just never gonna tell you. Never after that. Fair enough. Can I just say as well, this cocktail is absolutely lush?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I kind of want another one after this. Or maybe some wine or something. Some drinking this way too. Giving like some sort of Jolly Rancher.
SPEAKER_02Licorice candy.
SPEAKER_03Mmm, it's really nice.
SPEAKER_00I think that might be the shampoo.
SPEAKER_03Oh yeah. Frenny Americans, blue raspberry jelly rancher is what you're looking for. Okay. Mm-hmm. I'll bring some back, don't worry.
SPEAKER_02Nice.
SPEAKER_03Mm-hmm. This room held the most valuable pieces of art. Upon getting close to the frames, a motion alarm went off, but it was immediately smashed. Using a knife, they cut Rembrandt's The Storm on the Sea of Galilee, his only known seascape, from its frame.
SPEAKER_02Oh my god, I thought you were gonna say they like cut it to bits.
SPEAKER_00Oh, that would be good. Like a good case. Like they break into an art gallery, slash up a few paintings, and then leave. Like, what would be the point of that? Oh, I'd love that as a mystery.
SPEAKER_02So a protest. Right.
SPEAKER_03Oh yeah. Mm-hmm. They also removed a lady and gentleman in black by Rembrandt. A third Rembrandt, a self-portrait, was taken from the wall but left behind, possibly deemed too large or awkward to transport, as it was painted on wood and the others were painted on canvases.
SPEAKER_02Oh yeah, that would be really heavy, right?
SPEAKER_03Mm-hmm. Instead, they took a much smaller Rembrandt etching, a fragile, almost incidental work compared to the masterpiece they left behind. Some of the frames were smashed on the floor, and some were left hanging empty on the walls. If you look at your documentation, the first image, like the actual first image, that one, and then go to I guess the fourth, the black and white one, those were photos taken of the frames on the floor.
SPEAKER_02So it looks like they have left of the paintings on the walls, haven't they? They knew specifically what they were going for? Targeted or Yeah, it looks like it, doesn't it?
SPEAKER_00Is that one on the floor with the with the frame still intact, the wooden one? Like with the other ones have been cut out. You see the one left of the table on the second photo?
SPEAKER_03It very well could be, yeah. I hadn't actually thought about that, and I'm not too sure, to be honest, but it could be.
SPEAKER_00And this is the Dutch room, right?
SPEAKER_03Yes. They also stole Johannes Vermeer's famous painting, The Concert, and Govert Flink's Landscape with Obelisk. The thieves continued through the museum, selecting artworks that appeared to have been chosen in advance. They removed five sketches by the French artist Edgar Degas and took an ancient Chinese bronze beaker known as a goo. In the short gallery, they attempted to dismantle the frame holding a Napoleonic flag. Screws were partially removed, then abandoned. Instead, they only took the decorative eagle finial from the flagpole. Before leaving, they also took Edward Manet's Chez Tortoni. Motion detectors went off in every room except for the last where they stole the Manet. It was later like, I don't think I say it say this, but it was later discovered that all the motion detectors were working, so they don't know why it didn't go off in the last room. Could have been a weird glitch. Not sure.
SPEAKER_02It must have been. Maybe power went out for a second or something.
SPEAKER_01Ooh, maybe. Or they catch off the power for but no, never mind. Because one worked, yeah.
SPEAKER_03All the others worked, yeah. Despite the value of the collection surrounding them, the thieves ignored countless masterpieces. Some works worth far more than they stole were left untouched, adding another layer of mystery. Before leaving, they briefly returned to the security area. They removed surveillance tapes and motion detector printouts, efforts suggesting they understood the importance of evidence, or at least the inconvenience of leaving it behind. They even asked the guards who were still tied up if they were comfortable.
unknownEh.
SPEAKER_03Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01Well, they're nice people.
SPEAKER_02This is giving it I don't know, I guess. This is giving great train robbery 1970. That's exactly what I was thinking about. Gentleman robbers. Mm-hmm. Artsy, cute. Cute cute. Polite robbers. Oh.
SPEAKER_00Were the train robbers out of prison by then?
SPEAKER_02Ooh, 1990. Yes.
SPEAKER_00Oh shit. I think we've solved it.
SPEAKER_02Well, this but this wasn't in England though, was it? It was in Boston. I don't know if any went to the US. It would be very interesting though. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01They wanted to kind of lie down, lie in the low a bit, you know? Yeah. Love it. Maybe they wanted to lie down.
SPEAKER_03Don't we all? Can we record from just like laying on the floor? Bet we could. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Obviously.
SPEAKER_03At 2 40 a.m., the side door opened again. At 2 45 a.m., it closed for the final time, and they slipped out of the museum and disappeared into the night. In total, 13 pieces of art were stolen. You can now see. I'm gonna read through the 13. So the first one is the concert by Johannes Vermeer. We then have three by Rembrandt, The Storm on the Sea of Galilee, A Lady and Gentleman in Black, and a Self-Portrait.
SPEAKER_02That storm one is gorgeous.
SPEAKER_00I like that. I like the light on it. Oh, it's gorgeous.
SPEAKER_02So good. Oh, I'd have that in my in my study.
SPEAKER_03So good. Love it. Landscape with an obelisk by Govert Flink. You can see the Chinese bronze goo.
SPEAKER_00Goo. Tell me, what is the purpose of this goo? Like, where is it? I don't know. Is it to drink from? I've no idea. It feels like you get it over the lip and then you go. You know?
SPEAKER_03Maybe you would. Stop talking when people are drinking. You then have five Edgar Degas sketches. The Napoleonic Eagle Finial. And the last one is The Chaise Tortoni by Edward Menet. Alrighty. For hours the building remained silent. They're still tied up downstairs. The two guards were still bound in the basement. All night. Unable to call for help. Oh babies. It was not until the morning shift arrived shortly after 8 a.m. that something seemed wrong. When the new guards received no response from inside, they contacted museum officials who eventually discovered the restrained security guards and alerted the police.
unknownOh my god.
SPEAKER_03Officers quickly arrived at the scene. As investigators searched the galleries, the scale of the crime became clear. Yeah, like quickly. Empty frames hung from the walls, display cases had been disturbed, and some of the world's most valuable art was gone. News of the theft spread rapidly throughout Boston and soon across the world. Television crews gathered outside, newspapers rushed out headlines, and art experts struggled to comprehend how such a massive theft could have occurred in one of the city's most respected institutions. The stolen artwork would be valued at hundreds of millions of dollars. Hundreds of millions. With estimates as high as six hundred million. Whoa. That's a lot of cash. Hundreds of millions.
SPEAKER_00Is it like is this the thing that where art is always worth more than it's actually worth? Or no?
SPEAKER_03I don't know.
SPEAKER_00Like would anyone actually have bought that for 600 million?
SPEAKER_03Oh, yeah, probably. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02Oh yeah, there's some really rich people out there.
SPEAKER_03Among them, the concert by Vermeer alone would be estimated at roughly 250 million. Fuck off. I mean, it's a lovely painting, but that's a lot of money for a painting. I'd rather go pay for a flight to see it in a museum somewhere.
SPEAKER_00And we've also got a photograph of it, so who needs the real paint?
SPEAKER_03I couldn't agree, Mo.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_03Hurts me coming from someone with an art history degree, but like I agree with you.
SPEAKER_02We're being tongue-in-cheek, we don't mean it.
SPEAKER_03Oh, but I mean it. I I wouldn't be paying that much for a painting. It was, by every measure, the largest art theft in history. Is it still? I don't know. Now at the Louvre, I ha I kind of forgot all about that when I was doing this.
SPEAKER_02I don't think they stole hundreds of millions worth from the Louvre.
SPEAKER_03But I could be wrong.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, we could be.
SPEAKER_00But I mean, also that's hard to value as well. Like the French imperial crown, you can't really put a value on it, can you?
SPEAKER_03True, true. That's what I was thinking, yeah. Yeah. Investigators immediately noticed the inconsistency. As I mentioned before, some of the most valuable works in the museum remained untouched. Raphael, Botticelli, Michelangelo were all ignored, and entire galleries were bypassed. Why take a bronze goo and an eagle finial but leave masterpieces behind? Why remove one Rembrandt self portrait etching, but abandon a far more valuable painted self portrait? Avoid the third floor entirely where Titian's The Rape of Europa hung, one of the most valuable paintings in the entire city. Did they just not know their art?
SPEAKER_00But they seem to know exactly which room to go to. Right? And like which to cut out and which to know.
SPEAKER_02Yes, okay, so that is that is a big question mark, isn't it? I I get the feeling we never find out.
SPEAKER_03I don't know, we'll get into it. We still are just at the beginning, Jacoa. As news of the theft spread, investigators faced a daunting challenge. The crime scene offered surprisingly few clues. Security cameras had recorded the thieves moving through the museum, but the footage was grainy and revealed little about their identity. The robbers had worn disguises, spoken calmly, and carried out the operation with remarkable confidence. To many investigators, it seemed unlikely that this was a random crime. The FBI soon took control of the case. Detectives carefully reviewed the security footage, interviewed witnesses, and examined every single detail of the museum's security procedures. Fingerprints existed, but could not be definitively tied to the thieves. Well, yeah, it's not always got a million fingerprints in it, hasn't it? Some could have belonged to museum staff.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but surely they could have ruled out museum stuff by like fingerprinting them.
SPEAKER_03This was also in 1990.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but it that's not that long ago, is it? It's not like 1890.
SPEAKER_03No.
SPEAKER_00And I'm thinking only a few people have will have touched like things like the frame, right?
SPEAKER_02Well, I don't know, you've got a lot of cheeky public in there. Who wants to go up and probably do have a touch. Mm-hmm. You probably can't say who whose is and whose isn't the robbers, really. I mean they mustn't have, otherwise they would have, I guess.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's true.
SPEAKER_02Mm-hmm. He's thinking they're just lazy policemen.
SPEAKER_00Well, I'm just thinking, like, you can't touch the frames in I don't know, if you go to the Louvre, say an alarm will go off, right?
SPEAKER_03Technically, you can still touch it, an alarm will go off, but you can reach across and touch it, and if like one person out of every thousand does that, then you've got still got a lot of people.
SPEAKER_02True, I guess.
SPEAKER_03Mm-hmm. DNA, if present, was not recoverable with certainty at the time. Surveillance tapes were gone, motion data existed, but offered no identities, and they off also like took a lot of that as well with them. Even the basic descriptions of the suspects, one roughly 5'9 to 5'10 with a medium build, and the other around 6'6 and heavier, were too generic. You can now see an image of the police sketches. There were also questions about the motion detectors. The blue room showed no activity during the theft, despite the removal of the Chez Tortoni. Investigators reviewed the system and had concluded it functioned correctly.
SPEAKER_00So were they like levitating?
SPEAKER_03Well maybe they were like Spider-Man and they were going from like case to case and not actually touching the floor.
SPEAKER_00Is it like in Mission Impossible where if you move like a certain amount per like minute, like a couple centimeters a minute, you don't get picked up by the motion detector and they were just going moving really slowly.
SPEAKER_03Sounds like a lot of effort. I think it's more likely just to be a technical glitch. That's what I'm thinking.
SPEAKER_01Yep.
SPEAKER_00No, they said it was working correctly, so it must have been fine.
SPEAKER_01But I mean what what Chris said would justify the time they they took. Because that was a long time.
SPEAKER_02They started there. It took them too long, so then they decided just to rush through the rest.
SPEAKER_00Oh, I like that.
SPEAKER_03Oh, but that was the last room they went to. How do you know? Because the motion detectors from all the other rooms they went to, it has timestamps. But there's a missing 15 minutes in the beginning. There is a missing 13 minutes. Ah, there is an actual reason as to why they know they got that one last. But don't ask me because I didn't write it down.
SPEAKER_04Oh, great.
SPEAKER_03Sorry.
SPEAKER_02There's a lot to this case. We interrogate too much in these, but there's always things that I think I'm never gonna be asked about that, and then Chris fucking asks it.
SPEAKER_03The broader security failures were also scrutinized. No internal cameras, minimal guard training, low wages, and a reliance on a single panic button that was never used. A consultant had reviewed the security two years prior and recommended improvements. Ah. But financial constraints and institutional restrictions prevented the change.
SPEAKER_00I think it was a consultant. I think he was mad that they didn't take up his report and he was like, right, well, I'm gonna fucking break in then, aren't I?
SPEAKER_03Oh, I'll show them how stuck their security system is.
SPEAKER_02And then also if it's an inside job, that's why they didn't take the really, really valuable ones, because you can leave them, but just take the semi-valuable ones.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, just enough to teach them a lesson, but not enough to bankrupt them. Yeah, I like that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, especially if these paintings suddenly come up again one day, then definitely.
SPEAKER_00And that explains why they weren't panicked at all. They knew once they got the guards handcuffed, it wasn't like they would they had to check in every hour or something. They knew they had plenty of time. You know, like if the guard didn't press a button every 50 minutes or something.
SPEAKER_02Because they'd literally been set up for it from someone on the inside. And uh I also feel like these paintings probably do show up again, otherwise they would be more famous if they'd never come back. Well, get to them in the rest of it. Because it's like the only reason why the Mona Lisa's famous is because it was stolen once.
SPEAKER_03No.
SPEAKER_04Sorry.
SPEAKER_01Well, maybe to you, Jacoba, for that. Sorry.
SPEAKER_00It's kind of Britney toast to me sometimes. I'm glad to have it turn on someone else for once.
SPEAKER_03I really wanted to say yes.
SPEAKER_02I it was on the no, do there, but I was like, no, this podcast. This podcast is not about yes and each other, as we know, certainly. Call me out, absolutely.
SPEAKER_04Oh gosh.
SPEAKER_03Authorities received hundreds of tips. Some suggested the stolen artworks have been transported out of Boston immediately. Others pointed towards organized crime groups with connections throughout the Northeast. Let's get into the theories. I have four major theories for you. By the time we're done, I want you to tell me which one you believe.
SPEAKER_02Okay, are you are you to tell us that there's theories because we don't know because these people were never found?
SPEAKER_03I don't know. Okay, well that's I don't know what's gonna I don't know what I'm gonna say. I wrote this and never read it. How?
SPEAKER_00Well, we know if there's theories that don't like Jakarta says they don't get found.
SPEAKER_03Not necessarily.
SPEAKER_00Or do you think or was one of the theories right?
SPEAKER_03Oh am I just messing with you guys, but giving you four theories? Oh, okay. I'm so excited. It's gonna be great.
SPEAKER_02Let's go.
SPEAKER_03Theory one. Rick Abbeth. The guard.
SPEAKER_02Rick.
SPEAKER_03Bloody Rick. Very early on in the investigation, attention turned toward the young guard, Abbott. From the beginning, investigators found several aspects of his behavior on the night of the robbery unusual. During his patrol shortly before the thieves arrived, Abbh briefly opened and closed the side door at 1 a.m. The same door the robbers would use later to gain entry. Fag break. Not that I'm aware. Like he didn't go out, he like opened it, shut it, that was it. Maybe the robbers were hanging around and he thought he heard something. Maybe.
SPEAKER_00Did he give an explanation for that?
SPEAKER_03So I didn't write this down, but yes, he said occasionally throughout his night shifts he would go to check all the doors were locked, but later on, employees were like, Well, why did you not like record that you were doing that? Like, why did you not write that down? Why would you? Well, I d I don't know.
SPEAKER_00I mean, also the door wasn't locked, so why shouldn't you lock it?
SPEAKER_03Ah, yes. Some have suggested this could have been a signal to accomplices waiting outside.
SPEAKER_02It could have been.
SPEAKER_03Abbott consistently denied this, explaining that he occasionally checked the door to make sure it was properly locked. And then that's why I didn't write down that employees w were kind of like, well, it wasn't in your list of things to do, like it wasn't in your security check, or if you did do it, why did you not record it? Bored at 1 a.m. You do stuff like that.
SPEAKER_00And also, just about if he did it every night, surely there'd be records from previous nights where he'd done that.
SPEAKER_03It wasn't every night he did that.
SPEAKER_00It was So he just happened to do it on the night of the city.
SPEAKER_03That's what makes it weird.
SPEAKER_00Right. Yeah. Rick is looking awfully guilty to me.
SPEAKER_02I don't know. I think it could be a simple, simple thing. That it's a simple answer to that, really. It just what he said. Oh, I'm just checking.
SPEAKER_03Okay. Occam's razor. Could be.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_03Questions also arose because Abbat violated museum policy when he allowed the two men into the building. Museum rules. Yeah. Museum rules explicitly prohibited admitting anyone after hours. Okay, but like if I wasn't his position and two cops riding the down. Yeah, come on in. What do you need? Like, I'm not gonna say no to that policy. Like, is that including police? It would be silly if you include law enforcement in that. Yeah. I'd immediately say, buzz, come on, or or maybe like hold your badges up if there was a can. I don't know if there was a camera. I wouldn't even think to I'd think, can I see your badges?
SPEAKER_00Like this is so bad. Jacob, you are a law student. You should know that you've got to gotta make sure who these people are.
SPEAKER_02I know, I wouldn't. I would I I know Oh yes, come on in. I know.
SPEAKER_03Well, coppers, they're scary. Yeah, yeah, but I think I'd still be like, Can I trust you? Like, show me that I can like believe you.
SPEAKER_02I'm far too gullible.
SPEAKER_03Abbott later explained that he believed the men were genuine officers and feared that refusing to cooperate could result in his arrest. He also told investigators that he was due to attend a Grateful Dead concert later that day and did not want to risk getting in trouble with the police.
SPEAKER_00So instead he ended up duct taped to some place.
SPEAKER_03Yep. Poor guy. Additionally, fire alarms mysteriously activated in several rooms during his patrol. Unable to find any signs of smoke or fire, Abbat disabled the alarm panel and continued his rounds. Fair enough.
SPEAKER_00So he opened fire doors and he disabled alarms.
SPEAKER_03Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01Ah. Well, that's completely normal. Are you being sarcastic?
SPEAKER_03I think the look all of us just gave you. May I don't know. Some have speculated that the alarms may have been connected to the robbery. Silly, obviously, yes.
SPEAKER_02Well, maybe not.
SPEAKER_03I mean, maybe not.
SPEAKER_00Well, if it's just a fire alarm, maybe not. If it's like a fire ambergular alarm.
SPEAKER_03It was just a fire alarm. That went off multiple times. And the robbers could be setting them off. Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_02For some reason.
SPEAKER_03Mm-hmm. Further suspicion emerged when the FBI reviewed surveillance footage from the night before the theft, which showed Abbat allowing an unidentified man into the museum after hours.
SPEAKER_02Uh-uh. Okay, this is where it turns me. That's bad. Come on.
SPEAKER_03At the time, Abbott told investigators that he could not remember the encounter or identified the visitor. You now have a screenshot of that man. Me.
SPEAKER_00He looks a lot like um Quite old. Yeah, he looks like the guy from the two Ronnies. Do you know what I'm talking about? Ronnie Barker.
SPEAKER_02I don't know.
SPEAKER_00You're old. You should get this.
SPEAKER_02No idea. I don't know either. He's wearing a small bag. It's not suspenders.
SPEAKER_03You're right.
SPEAKER_02Just looks like a general white old man. It looks like a like a camera bag almost. He's wearing a small bag. You're right. But so you can see the straps come over his shoulder, but then the actual bag you can't see because it's hidden by the desk. So if that's a camera bag, did he go around taking photos of what he needed where he needed to be and what he needed to steal?
unknownI don't know.
SPEAKER_00Also he's wearing a full like crisp white shirt at 1 a.m.
SPEAKER_03Should I say the next sentence might clear some things up? Alright. The footage led to speculation that some may have been scouting the museum before the robbery. However, former employees later identified the visitor as the museum's deputy security chief.
SPEAKER_02Well, that's well, inside job, Chris, where I'm with you. Right, exactly. He's taken photos for the robbers to show them where they need to go. But he looks about 87 years old. So it old men can be bad people. Can bad people can be bad people. Yes, for sure.
SPEAKER_00I know that's just reminding me of a podcast we have to do the Hatton Garden thing. Oh the grandpas.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_00No.
SPEAKER_03It's on my list. Is it? Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Oh, you should do it.
SPEAKER_03The lead FBI agent on the case eventually concluded that the guards appeared too inexperienced and unprepared to have orchestrated such a sophisticated operation.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, agreed. They're 23 and 25. The chief they were just stooges and the chief was this was his like exit plan. Where he's like, right, I've worked here 40 years, time to actually get the payout.
SPEAKER_02Maybe, but he definitely could have directed them. I mean, all they had to do really was open a couple of doors, let someone in, and then be handcuffed all night.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and some people would pay money to be handcuffed all night.
SPEAKER_03I'm sure.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_03It is argued that Abbott's actions created the perfect opportunity for the thieves to enter and take control. Skeptics counter that his mistakes can be explained by inexperience, poor training, and the notoriously weak security procedures.
SPEAKER_02I know, like how many silly mistakes like this are made all the time where there isn't a big robbery, so we never hear about it. Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00But like That's a good point, yeah.
SPEAKER_02How many times have you left the door unlocked and then in the morning you've been A lot of times. Yep.
SPEAKER_03So yeah. The museum paid its guards only slightly above minimum wage, and many of its security flaws were well known among employees. Abbott died in 2024 at the age of 57.
SPEAKER_02Oh, that's young.
SPEAKER_03Theory two. Did he die in prison? I have no idea actually how like what caused his death.
SPEAKER_01So he was never convicted. Did he die of guilt? But again, it's just art. It's not that no, never mind. It's just art. No respect at all. Nope.
SPEAKER_00I mean, also, can you imagine trying to get a job as a security guard after you've just let someone make $70 million?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, any job ever again. You've displayed such incompetence, I guess. 2024 though, wow. Only a couple of years ago.
SPEAKER_03I didn't realize that. Theory two. Organized crime. Yeah. Oh.
SPEAKER_00That's exactly what I was thinking.
SPEAKER_03What?
SPEAKER_04What?
SPEAKER_00Organized crime.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01You'll see when you're when you'd be editing, okay? Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And I just go, my God.
SPEAKER_00Oh.
SPEAKER_03In the years surrounding the theft, Boston's criminal landscape was unstable. Rival factions within the Patriarcha crime family were engaged in violent internal conflict while smaller gangs controlled drug trafficking, extortion, and other illicit operations across the region. Within this environment, some believed the stolen artworks were not simply stolen for profit, but for strategic leverage, potentially used as bargaining chips in negotiations involving imprisoned criminals and organized crime figures.
SPEAKER_02The thing is, when you steal artwork like that, how can it ever be profitable? Because you can you sell it once it's stolen like that?
SPEAKER_00I think you can probably sell it to like places like um oh, there was something recently where some Malaysian government official was on a Zoom meeting during COVID in his house. Oh yeah. Yeah. And there were on the walls behind him, there were like loads of stolen art that had been missing for years. So I think like government officials and countries like that, it might not have been Malaysia. Sorry, Malaysia, it might have been it was somewhere like East Southeast Asia. Um but like Russian officials and like the Dakas in Siberia. Yeah, fair enough. You know, no one's ever gonna see it. Fine. It might get sold to them at like, I don't know, a couple mil.
SPEAKER_03Huh. Yeah, okay. The FBI's attention eventually focused on a Dorchester-based network. This is Dorchester, a suburb or uh region of Boston. I don't really know Boston, I was there once. A Dorchester-based network associated with Carmelo Merlino, a career criminal who operated a legitimate-looking automobile repair shop that doubled as a meeting place for his associates. Within this circle were individuals such as David Turner and George Reisfelder, who investigators later identified as possible participants. While Turner was suspected of constructing a false alibi by traveling to Florida shortly beforehand. But both men denied involvement. Of course they're gonna deny involvement.
SPEAKER_00Also, is it a false alibi if he did travel to Florida?
SPEAKER_03I don't know if he actually traveled to Florida, though.
SPEAKER_00Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_03Maybe it was like someone in his place. Oh. Evidence supporting this network theory also extends further back. In 1982, the FBI uncovered a separate plot involving gangster Lewis Royce, who had allegedly studied the museum's layout and discussed exploiting its weak security. Although that plan was never executed, investigators believed knowledge of the museum's vulnerabilities may have circulated within Boston's criminal underworld for years before the robbery. It was only after this plot was discovered that museum officials allocated funds to improve the security. This included 60 infrared motion detectors and a CCTV system consisting of four cameras located outside the building. After the theft, investigators believe the artwork was moved quickly out of Boston. Evidence and informant testimony suggest a route through Connecticut and later into Philadelphia, which I had no idea about, where attempts may have been made to broker or conceal the pieces within criminal circles. This movement would explain why none of the stolen works ever surfaced on the legitimate art market.
SPEAKER_00Surely if they surfaced on the illegitimate art market, they'd immediately be confiscated.
SPEAKER_03Like that's what I thought as well, but it was some things that like many people said, so I was like, I'll I'll include it. I like to include all the views. But I thought the same. I was like, well, obviously it's never going to surface on the legitimate art market.
SPEAKER_00No, it might get like found somewhere.
SPEAKER_03Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00Found.
SPEAKER_03Or it's not gonna be out there. Like it's not just suddenly gonna appear.
SPEAKER_00No, because it just you won't be allowed to sell it, would you?
SPEAKER_03Right, exactly. It's gonna be confiscated. One of the most significant figures associated with this network was Robert Gorante. I don't know if I'm saying his name right. A Connecticut gangster associated with Merlino Circle. Years after the robbery, Gorante's widow told investigators that her husband had once possessed some of the stolen artwork and later passed it to fellow gangster Robert Gentile for safekeeping. Federal agents searched Genteel's property and discovered a hidden compartment beneath a false floor in a shed, along with newspaper clippings about the theft and handwritten notes estimating the black market value of the stolen works.
SPEAKER_02Okay, that's yeah. Alright.
SPEAKER_03Although no artwork was recovered from his property, it's believed the space may once have been used to conceal it. I think that's fair.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's pretty damning evidence. But it also could have been just been like, wow, I wish that had been me. Maybe I could do something like that, you know? How much do they get? Oh my god, they got 600 mil. Maybe we should think about doing that. No?
SPEAKER_02Uh yes, but you could do that and, you know, not put it in a concealed place under the floorboards. Why would you do that?
SPEAKER_00My thought is surely he'd if he'd done the maths and like figured out which ones he was gonna nick, he'd have got the more valuable ones. You know? Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_02And then did he go on to ever do an art heist himself? Like because if he didn't know, then it was probably because he already did it. Hmm. Uh I didn't look at that.
SPEAKER_00I'm just thinking if he's going to all the trouble of adding up all the the money he's gonna have. Like if it was pre-art nickage, like he'd have figured out to take the more valuable ones, right? If this note was written before the heist. If it was after the heist, well surely because they were definitely stealing like specific artworks, he wouldn't have needed to do it after the heist, does that make sense?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, or I was just wondering unless he sent two of his criminal gang boys out to get it, and then they've returned with it, and then that's when he's figuring it out how much they're worth what just whatever they got.
SPEAKER_00I guess, but it's like the s how specific they were at grabbing things like a top of a flagpole, you know?
SPEAKER_03Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Genteel repeatedly denied ever possessing the paintings, but a polygraph examination indicated deception when he claimed to know nothing about the robbery. That's all. That's it for theory two.
SPEAKER_00Theory three did he give an explanation as to the note or no?
SPEAKER_03He just denied everything. Never talked about it. Theory three. The mafia. Kind of ties in with organized crime, but different. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Oh God.
SPEAKER_02I'll leave it in anyway.
SPEAKER_03There's nothing wrong with my absolutely not. While the FBI's organized crime theory focused on who carried out the robbery, other interpretations shift attention to a different question. Who ordered or controlled it? Two of the most prominent explanations point to powerful figures, again, in Boston's criminal underworld. Bobby Donati and Whitey Bulger. You have a picture of Bobby Donati.
SPEAKER_00I swear these names just get made up.
SPEAKER_03Well, Whitey Bulger was not his real name. I think it was James or Joseph Whitey Bulger. But that's Bobby Donati.
SPEAKER_00Wait, sorry, the guy in a tie is Bobby Donati. Right, okay.
SPEAKER_03Donati was a respected and feared member of the Patriarch Crime Family during a violent mafia power struggle in the early 90s. Unlike many suspects linked to the Dorchester Network, Donati had direct connections to experienced art thieves, leading some to believe he possessed both the knowledge and influence to orchestrate a robbery of this scale. The theory gained traction largely because of information. I'm about to throw a lot of names at you. You do not have to remember any of them. Just I realized when I was reading through this earlier, like there's a lot here, but not important. The theory gained traction largely because of information provided by Miles Connor Jr., a notorious New England art thief who was in prison at the time of the robbery. Connor claimed Donati and fellow criminal David Houghton had planned the theft together. According to Connor, Donati had shown prior interest in items later stolen from the museum, including the Napoleonic Eagle Finial, suggesting premeditated knowledge of the collection. Connor alleged Houghton later visited him in prison and admitted that he and Donati had organized the heist. In this version of events, the stolen artwork was not intended for sale on the open market, but as I very briefly mentioned earlier, was allegedly meant to function as leverage in negotiations to secure the release of imprisoned mafia figure, Vincent Ferrara. And was he released? I've no idea.
SPEAKER_00Brittany, this is not the level of research that I've come to expect.
SPEAKER_03Sorry, it's this one was thrown together in about 72 hours.
SPEAKER_02Because if he was released.
SPEAKER_03Can we look this up?
SPEAKER_02Then maybe it was used as leverage.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but you think they'd admit to it, or at least now. Well, I guess now.
SPEAKER_02But then you'd get the paintings back, and I'm starting to get the feeling we didn't get them back.
SPEAKER_00Right. So Unless they released him and then the paintings were never given over, and they so they were so embarrassed about having been hoodwinked, but That wouldn't surely not.
SPEAKER_02They'd they'd have a proper deal where they don't think it would fly. I think I I think I'm gonna I'm gonna listen to theory four, but I think I have a like a a formulated theory here.
SPEAKER_00Also, what do we think about Bobby Donati? Would he would he get it?
SPEAKER_02The first one.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Because I think he would.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah. He looks like a fuck boy. Instantly put off. No, very very Italian, very demure, very no one like that. Very mindful. Yeah, I was mindful of crime.
SPEAKER_03So Ferrara was released from prison on April 12th, 2005.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so only five years later.
SPEAKER_03No, fifteen.
SPEAKER_02I don't do myself any favors, do I? Okay, 15 years later, that's not short enough time for me to believe that that was used as leverage.
SPEAKER_00No, I mean what was that when he was going to be released anyway, or uh or was it like a don't make a lookup anymore. Okay, sorry. That's when he was gonna be released anyway. So probably we can rule that out.
SPEAKER_03Additional support for the theory emerged when investigative journalist Stephen Kirkshin, apologies if I've said that completely wrong, reported that an associate of Vincent Ferrara told him Donati had personally visited Ferrara in prison before the robbery and promised he was going to do something that would help secure his release. Eh, they might have said that.
SPEAKER_02They might, you know. Yeah, I mean you can go if you're part of the mafia and you've got your boss guy and you're gonna go, yeah, I'm gonna try everything I can to get you out.
SPEAKER_03After the theft, Donati allegedly confirmed his involvement and explained that the artwork would be hidden until pressure from law enforcement eased. However, those plans were never completed as Donati was murdered in 1991 during an internal mafia conflict. If Donati truly controlled the paintings, his sudden death could have disrupted the entire plan, leaving the works hidden and their location known only to a small circle of people.
SPEAKER_00Okay. I could by that. But uh would they not be have been found by now?
SPEAKER_03You'll have to wait and find out. Ooh, I don't know.
SPEAKER_02Oh god, I yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_03However, critics point out that neither Donati nor Houghton matched eyewitness descriptions of the intruders, suggesting they may have been planners rather than those who actually entered the building.
SPEAKER_02I feel like Donati as well has slightly stark uh slightly darker skin, and I think that would have been picked up by by one of the security guards, it would have been in the description. Yeah. But as far as I can tell, they were just identified as two ordinary white men. Not that having darker skin isn't ordinary.
SPEAKER_03No, no, no. Yes, you're right. It was assumed that these were white men, but we don't know. We don't a hundred percent know.
SPEAKER_02But we were if he had described them any different, it would have been known. And I'm so I'm suggesting it he wasn't because they weren't. They were white.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. There are other intriguing details. A friend of Robert Guarante, who we mentioned previously, reportedly claimed that Donati organized the robbery and later entrusted some of the work to Guarante when he became concerned about his own safety. Donati and Guarante were known to be close associates. The same source also claimed that shortly before the robbery, Donati and Guarante were seen carrying a bag containing police uniforms. In 1997, journalist Tom Mashburg was taken to a Brooklyn warehouse by antiques dealer William Youngworth, who claimed he could help recover the stolen art. There, Mashberg was shown what appeared to be Rembrandt's The Storm on the Sea of Galilee. Youngworth claimed that Donati had been one of the robbers and that Houghton helped move the artwork after. Federal authorities later questioned the authenticity of the evidence and found no paintings when they searched the warehouse.
SPEAKER_00I mean, if you'd just shown someone the paintings at a warehouse, you're immediately gonna remove them from the warehouse, right?
SPEAKER_03Mm-hmm. Right? Like you're not gonna keep them there. Can you remind me who it was who said they'd seen it? A journalist who was taken to the warehouse by an antique dealer who supposedly had the Rembrandt at this warehouse.
SPEAKER_02And what that journalist then went to the police. Mm-hmm. Not buying it.
SPEAKER_03And then when the police searched it, there was nothing there.
SPEAKER_02Not buying it, no.
SPEAKER_03Very weird, very like.
SPEAKER_02Why would anyone take a journalist of all people to their like why? No, if especially if this is the mafia, they are keeping this so underwrap. They know exactly who they're selling that to before they even do the robbery. They pro I mean it may even make sense as to why, because they have like an order. Do you know what I mean? They they have informed people that they're doing this to then. I actually don't think this is what happened, but like they're not they're not taking a random that it's just if we go back to the great train robbery, like yeah, it's just it's way more meticulously done than that.
SPEAKER_00See, I agree with you, but I'm interested you say you don't think that's what happened because it does sound like they're stealing things exactly, you know, they've mapped out exactly where they're going in each room, they're getting specific things. Like we need the goo, we need the whatever the flagpole. Yeah. Like why why the why the Chinese pot? That's what's getting me. Like they left something else behind because it was too awkward to carry, but they got a giant bronze pot, you know?
SPEAKER_01Right. Well, maybe they're planning to sell that Chinese gooey? Goo. Goo to to China.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And you know, like so they like, or you know, like you know how you know anti-America kind of uh countries, and the mafia is like selling that to um.
SPEAKER_03He might be onto something.
SPEAKER_01Ooh, hello. Right, so is it sugg right, is it suggesting so like kind of China kind of requested that and they went for it, like straight. I don't know about the the other like paintings and stuff.
SPEAKER_03But no, you're right, it's a very important thing.
SPEAKER_00So maybe these are like activists that are like getting rid of you know foreign treasures in uh in American museums. They got the goo, they got the Napoleonic flag, they've got the Rembrandts, they've sent those back to the Netherlands. They've got the uh what was the other one? Manet and a Mane. Like they didn't nick any American art. No. Not really any American artists worth watching, you know.
SPEAKER_01Watch yourself. And the eagle, is that is that American?
SPEAKER_03Like the eagle is No, it was from a Napoleonic flag.
SPEAKER_02Oh, okay. And it was gold, right?
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_02I was feeling like they could just melt left dog. Oh, yeah, that yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Easy done, that one.
SPEAKER_03Both men died shortly after the theft. Donati through murder and Hawton through illness. And investigators never had the opportunity to question them. So this is kind of we were in what theory three, and Bobby Donati was kind of like the first branch. We're now kind of going in a different direction, but still under theory three. Whitey Bulger and the Winter Hill Gang. We have a picture of Whitey Bulger.
SPEAKER_00It looks like Trump's mugshot.
SPEAKER_03It kept reminding me, it like it made me do a second, like what's it called? Like a double take, because when we did the Anglin Brothers and the Escape from Alcatraz, it looks like theirs, and I was like, have I googled the right thing? Like, it made me really question, but yeah, that's him.
SPEAKER_02His hair is standing on end.
SPEAKER_00He looks like like a cartoon werewolf, you know.
SPEAKER_03Oh, like from Scooby-Doo, right? Like that one with the werewolves on the island. Like the Yeah, that one. Thank you.
SPEAKER_00We've all seen it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I people, right, listeners, you know what I'm talking about. It's like the Louisiana, like the werewolves on the island, and they save the day, but That's good.
SPEAKER_00Anyway. I'm glad they didn't get eaten by werewolves.
SPEAKER_03Another theory placed the robbery within the sphere of Whitey Bulger. During the late 80s and early 90s, Bulger was the powerful leader of the Winter Hill Gang, a criminal organization involved in drug trafficking, extortion, loan sharking, and murder. Because Bulger exerted influence across much of the city's underworld, it's been questioned whether a crime of this scale could have even occurred without his knowledge. It emerged partly because the robbery took place within the within territory heavily influenced by Bulger's organization. According to FBI agent Thomas McShane, it was difficult to imagine thieves carrying out such a high-profile operation in Boston without attracting the attention of the city's most powerful crime boss.
SPEAKER_00See, I think you you could, you know, it's not like there was a huge, elaborate setup. They just went up to a museum and knocked on the door, you know?
SPEAKER_03Bulgar maintained extensive connections within Boston law enforcement, partly because he was secretly working as an FBI informant while simultaneously leading the gang.
SPEAKER_02Bulgar was.
SPEAKER_03He was an FBI informant.
SPEAKER_02Yup.
SPEAKER_00Fuck's sake. You can't trust these mafia types.
SPEAKER_02Nope.
SPEAKER_00So if he was an informant, why did he end up in Alcatraz?
SPEAKER_02I guess maybe maybe he was a prisoner of Alcatraz first, and maybe it was his part of his re early release or something to become an informant.
SPEAKER_03I do think how that photo was taken, it is definitely before the 90s. Right. He's younger, is he? Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Would you not be suspicious if your mate got let out of Alcatraz like 10 years early? It's like, hi guys, so what are you up to? What robberies are you doing in the next like few months?
SPEAKER_02Aye, but if he's the boss gangster, right? No one's gonna question him. Yeah, well, no one's gonna question him, and he can just say anything. He can say, Oh, they were so scared of me, or oh, I offered them loads of money, or oh, I told them I'd kill their wives, or whatever. Like, you can say what you like, right?
SPEAKER_04Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00I guess.
SPEAKER_02I'm so surprised that the the main guy though was an informant. That is surprising.
SPEAKER_03Right? Insane. I didn't know that until before I researched.
SPEAKER_02And we know that for sure.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_02God, that's so backward.
SPEAKER_04Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_03Investigators speculated that these connections could have helped the thieves acquire authentic-looking police uniforms or even insider knowledge about law enforcement procedures.
SPEAKER_00I don't buy it. Like if you're an FBI informant and you ask for some police uniforms, they're not gonna say yes.
SPEAKER_03Well, I don't think he asked. I think he knew where they were and got them. Or sent people to the.
SPEAKER_00Even if you're an informant, it doesn't give you knowledge of like where they keep your the the uniforms, does it?
SPEAKER_02I mean we'd need to know we'd need to have the uniforms to e the actual uniforms to even know that they were legit police uniforms. I think they were legit.
SPEAKER_00And also I agree with Jacob, like a 23-year-old is not gonna know the specifics of like police uniforms. You're just gonna see someone dressed vaguely like a policeman and be like, oh okay.
SPEAKER_02You're right. Yeah. It would need to like be have like a stamp on it where all the police uniforms are made to like know for sure.
SPEAKER_03True.
SPEAKER_02So we unless we find them.
SPEAKER_00Could we find them?
SPEAKER_03We just have to wait and find out.
SPEAKER_02Maybe they were or maybe they well, we could still have the police uniforms. Maybe they um got changed before they got in the van and someone did find them. Maybe you're going to tell us that, something like that later. But I feel like if if we never if they're never retrieved, we don't we can't possibly know they're real. So that just all I'm saying is it isn't factored into my evidence for it being him, I guess.
SPEAKER_03Some have also explored possible international connections.
SPEAKER_02I think this is the train Nuho was on, wasn't it?
SPEAKER_00And I agree with this. Well, I if you're gonna say what I think you're gonna say. What do you think I'm gonna say? Well, I'm thinking it's gonna be stolen to order by some sort of like international mastermind. Okay. Like some Russian oligarch or something like that. That's my theory.
SPEAKER_03The use of preemptive fire alarm disturbances has been compared to tactics associated with paramilitary groups such as the IRA and the Ulster Volunteer Force, both of which had historical ties, direct or indirect, to individuals in Boston during this period.
SPEAKER_02You don't have to. I mean, if you're a criminal gang, you're gonna know the tactics. You don't have to have direct like links with the gang that used those tactics. No.
SPEAKER_00But Boston is very Irish, actually.
SPEAKER_03I was about to say, I think outside of Ireland, Boston is considered like the place where it's the most Irish population. So it could potentially have that connection. This has led to speculation that the stolen art may have been transferred overseas and used as a bargaining asset beyond the US. Unlike Donati and the Dorchester gang theories, which are supported by witness statements and connections to known criminals, the Bulgur theory relies largely on circumstantial connections. No recovered documents, informants, or physical evidence has ever tied Bulgur directly to the stolen art. In 1994, museum director Anne Hawley received an anonymous message from someone claiming to represent intermediaries connected to the stolen art.
SPEAKER_00So not the people themselves, someone not even the intermediaries, someone representing the intermediaries.
SPEAKER_03It reminds me of the didn't this happen in the Jean Bonet case? In the letter that was found in the Jean Bonnet house. Yeah. We are a faction of blah blah blah blah blah. It reminds me of that.
SPEAKER_02Uh yeah, and that was a hoax. So But is this one?
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_03How do you know?
SPEAKER_00I don't know. You sound like you're gonna say it is.
SPEAKER_03The writer insisted they were not the thieves themselves, but a third party Asking for a friend. Would you give me money? The writer insisted they were not the thieves themselves, but a third party negotiator acting on behalf of those who had access to the missing pieces. From the beginning, the letter suggested the artworks were still intact and being carefully stored in a controlled environment outside the US.
SPEAKER_02I don't buy this at all. This is fake.
SPEAKER_03The message contained a proposal. Aw. Will you marry me? If the museum and authorities were willing to negotiate immunity for those involved, along with a multi-million dollar payment, the artworks would be returned. The writer described the pieces as being held in a non-common law country, implying they were hidden somewhere beyond easy legal reach. In exchange for the return, the negotiator demanded secrecy, financial compensation, and protection from prosecution for everyone involved. What made the letter compelling was the level of detail included. The writer referenced specific information that had not been made public at the time. That's big, that's big, that's big. Suggesting a possible connection to individuals close to the investigation.
SPEAKER_00Do we know what information it No. Oh sorry.
SPEAKER_02Well, yeah, because I guess it they didn't do it. They and it's ne still never been released to the public, this specific information. Oh, well, this I mean this this change this changes things because even detectives wait until for like a confession or whatever, they will wait until someone says things that hasn't been released to the press. And that still that validates someone's confession or someone's eyewitness report or anything. So that is the the most credible so far. I wonder what it was.
SPEAKER_03The museum took the letter seriously and contacted the FBI. Okay. After consultation with federal investigators, a coded response was arranged and published in the Boston Globe in an attempt to verify the sender's identity and continue negotiations. All right. Days later, a second letter arrived. I love how excited you are. Makes me so happy. The writer acknowledged that their message had been received and expressed cautious interest in continuing discussions. However, they also indicated growing fear that federal and state authorities were closing in too aggressively, and that revealing further information could endanger them or others connected to the case. After this exchange, all communication stopped and no further letters were ever received.
SPEAKER_02Well, did the and Well, but did they did the FBI and police put out another code or why did it stop? It just stopped.
SPEAKER_03Were they ghosted or did they never get back into it? I think they were ghosted. I think nothing like they never received anything else.
SPEAKER_00For fuck's sake.
unknownWhy?
SPEAKER_02Why would you even put out the coded stuff in the first place if you're just not gonna follow up later? Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00Do you think it was maybe like some students being like, lol, let's let's but then how would they know the information?
SPEAKER_03That is the key that is really that's what gets me. I thought it was a hoax, but then I was like, I have a theory.
SPEAKER_01Yes. So I think there was an internal conflict, right? And there was a bit of like well, they turned against each other, and uh they were like, you know, put in threats and you know, uh followed action after that on enhance the letters. Then after that it got resolved, then they were like, okay, never mind, we're alright. Huh. So in fighting amongst the mafia or gang? Yeah, organized crime. Well, that's what I think. I don't know.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_02Love it. Okay. Do you have any more to say on your last on your last theory? Because I I have I have I want to get into it a little bit. Go for it. Okay, so I think the most evidence that we have, the thing that makes most sense is that it's an organized criminal gang. I don't think as far as the mafia. Okay. Because I don't think it's like that.
SPEAKER_00You don't think 600 million is worth getting a mafia dropped?
SPEAKER_02Maybe. I'm just not totally buying the mafia one, but it could be. The only thing that puts me off with the criminalized gang thing is. Is that and I'm only saying this, I w I don't think I would be saying this if we hadn't done the railway robbery. But I think they would have sent more people in. Okay. The fact that these are.
SPEAKER_00I agree, because it looks like there's a lot that could have gone wrong.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00The fact that they've got to be like, if the guy had just pressed the padding button, they'd have been fucked.
SPEAKER_01Oh my god, yes. Unless they've like they had the people inside with them, like they bribed them so the guards were in on it. Yeah. So that's that's what I think. It was or like the people directing it were organized, like um from like they'll be I don't know if it's mafia, but it's international. There is an international side to it. Then they bought the people in the museum so that it'll be smooth, you know.
SPEAKER_02Okay, you've made an interesting point, and I am gonna say that all of the theories are right. All of the theories are right. So wait, if we go back to the railway robbery, well, maybe well, okay, so for example, Ronnie Biggs was paid to go and find the train conductor from outside. Maybe some of the gang were paid to go and talk to the guards. Maybe, you know how we had the Ulster man who it turned out that he actually worked for the post office his entire life and was really worried about travelling on trains because of the low security.
SPEAKER_00The consultant.
SPEAKER_02What if the security consultant guy that came in the night before was our Ulster man?
SPEAKER_04Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_02And then we have the big guys, but it still doesn't I mean, fair enough, if we've got the guards bribed, then maybe that does mean we need less people on the job. But I still think that if it was mafia or criminal gang, they would well, maybe they did. I was gonna say they would have people on watch. Maybe they did in bushes. We just didn't see them. The eyewitnesses didn't see the people who were on the outside holding watch. So that's why we don't necessarily know they're there because they weren't physically seen. So there could have actually been more people. Maybe that wait. Yeah, that maybe that's why it took 15 minutes at the beginning, because they were going out to them outside and going, right, we've got them. You stay there, you stay there, you come with us.
SPEAKER_03Maybe it wasn't only two people, maybe the own maybe there was two people at the beginning and then they switched, but then there was no record of the door opening again until they left at 240. Until they opened it at 240. There was no record of the door opening. I don't know. And other entrances? Um, yes, because that was a side entrance. So there are others, but as far as as far as I'm aware, nothing was ever recorded as anyone going in and out.
SPEAKER_02And we know that the side entrance had a recorder because we know that the security guard guy, yeah, like opened it. So we know that.
SPEAKER_01Okay, so maybe oh I don't know, windows? I mean it's my feelings. Windows could have been, yeah. We know like James Bond vibe, like, you know, like how the he does the glass like that, and just theory number five, James Bond. Yeah. Oh, never mind, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean, maybe that was what the 15 minutes took. It was getting more of them in through a window somewhere. Yeah. It could have been it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think there would have been motion detectors on the windows as well, though, right? I don't think.
SPEAKER_03I mean, look at the look at like the lack of security. Yes, they had infrared, yes, they had motion detectors and four CCTV cameras. But you can't cover every single angle of the outside of the building. Who knows if there's motion detectors on the windows?
SPEAKER_02Okay, so I was originally gonna say that there only being two perpetrators meant to me that it wasn't a criminalized gang, but I actually think there's room for there there were more people there. I mean, the security guards were put straight into the basement, so they don't know who was there.
SPEAKER_00Or were they, you know? Were they were they helping move the paintings and then we're right, we better tie you up now. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03There's no actual evidence besides their eyewitness testimony that yeah, we were tied up, we were taped to the pipes and everything, but we don't actually know when that happened.
SPEAKER_02Hmm. Okay, I think I think all of the theories are true. Okay. We've got the Ulsterman, we've got the the bribed people, we've got our gang, and we've got a meticulously pulled-off crime.
SPEAKER_03Well, you've kind of gone into my next point, which is great. That's why I didn't stop you, because I just want to quickly jump back to the letter. I forgot to say this. The letter writer never identified. So now I'm going to ask you, what do you think happened? Which of the theories do you think is true? Were the thieves carrying out a carefully planned mission for a powerful crime organization? Did the artworks disappear into a private collection hidden from the world? We have your answer. Or do you want to sum it up? Were you happy with what you said? I think that was pretty good. That was really good. What are your theories? What do you think happened?
SPEAKER_01I think I um second Jacoa. So I think it's a mix between an inside job and kind of highly organized international crime. But yeah, I think it's a mix of both. And now it's all private. And but I think it's a matter of like returning resources. So like the Chinese piece would go like two different like we have different clients here, not just like one one um one person taking the you know the stolen stuff. Okay.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think it would well obviously they were going through methodically and stealing specific pieces, right? So that's where I'm getting hung up on. Because if it was like, let's steal the most expensive stuff, they'd have just gone and stolen. So I'm thinking it was some sort of, like I say, a Russian oligarch or something like that. But I can't explain the letter to the newspaper. If that letter sorry, the letter to the to the museum stuff, because if that letter definitely held information that hadn't been released, then we're assuming it's authentic, right?
SPEAKER_02Mm-hmm. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Or it's some sort of like inside thing with it where the police guy that was on the job.
SPEAKER_02It would mean that anybody had put who had put their orders in didn't get their order because that stuff was being held. Why?
SPEAKER_00Why yeah, I just don't understand why it was those specific pieces, because yes, they were valuable, but then there was some weird stuff like the the the top of the flag, which I I probably wasn't gold, right? It was probably butt brass or something.
SPEAKER_03I I don't know. I had to work it out.
SPEAKER_02Unless it was being held because Dorothy had died and he was the main guy that was gonna get it all to the people who had ordered, and it could it like they couldn't. Maybe he was the only one that held the information of who'd ordered it, maybe, and no the other criminal gang didn't have access to that information, it was like classified almost, so they couldn't fulfil their part of the job.
SPEAKER_00So then they were like, Oh shit, we got loads of powerful people that want their art and we've got no idea who they are or how to get it to them. Let's just give it back and make a couple a few million out of it. Yeah. Oh wait, they've got back in touch with us, never mind.
SPEAKER_03After decades of investigation, millions of dollars spent, thousands of tips, and one of the largest rewards ever offered for stolen art. No one has ever been charged or convicted with the theft, nor a single one of the thirteen works has ever been recovered.
SPEAKER_00Ever been recovered?
SPEAKER_03Have there ever been sightings or like supposedly this journalist saw the Rembrandt? Right, apart from that, though. No, not that I'm aware of. Wow. Never been recovered. Man. Never been recovered. We're going on 40 years. Meanwhile, the Isabella Stewart Gardner Museum continues to welcome visitors from around the world. Many come to admire the collection that remains, but just as many come to see what isn't there. In accordance with Isabella Stuart Gardner's wishes, the empty frames still hang in their original places, unchanged since the night of the theft. You can now see a picture of her and two photos as well of the empty frames. The first one I believe is in the Dutch room. I don't know what was held there, but the second one I think was the Rembrandt. One of the Rembrandt. That's pretty cool.
SPEAKER_00I like that they've left the frames empty. Yeah. Also cheaper than filling them as well.
SPEAKER_01So economical and artsy. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I think those paintings will turn up one day.
SPEAKER_03I hope they do.
SPEAKER_02If it had been a hundred years, I'd say no, but it's only been four years. That doesn't feel like a long time.
SPEAKER_03More than three decades later, the FBI continues to treat the case as active, and the museum still offers a whopping $10 million reward for information leading to the recovery of the stolen works. Yet despite decades of investigation, the mystery remains unsolved. Somewhere, the missing masterpieces may still exist, hidden in a private collection, locked away in a warehouse, or concealed by people who have never revealed what they know. Or perhaps they've been lost forever. No one can say for certain. What we do know is that on a single night in March 1990, 13 works of art vanished without a trace. The thieves disappeared into history, the paintings disappeared into darkness, and the empty frames remain silent reminders of one of the greatest unsolved art heists of all time. There you go. Wow.
SPEAKER_02And with fingerprint, DNA available, CCTV, motions monitoring, two security guards, nothing.
SPEAKER_00I That's pretty crazy, isn't it, when you put it like that? Because it's not like it's one of these art heists you hear about in like 1910 where it's like, oh okay, fine.
SPEAKER_02That had to have been an inside job. I think it wasn't inside job. There are people alive today that know where those paintings are.
SPEAKER_03Yes, they know where it is, they know or they know where they are, they know what happened.
SPEAKER_00Amazing. I really enjoyed that one. Thank you.
SPEAKER_03You're welcome. My sources are thegardenermuseum.org, fbi.gov, very credible, crimereads.com, mainhistory.org, and Buzzfeed Unsolved.
SPEAKER_02Amazing.
unknownHere we go.
SPEAKER_02Tune in next week for a real good tale.