“I do believe that God has a purpose for our lives beyond the mess, beyond the pain, beyond the brokenness of what we live in.”
On today’s show, Nicole talks with podcaster, author, and speaker, Anna Kettle. Anna has gone through the difficult journey of several miscarriages and shares how that tested her faith. By finding, and sharing her hope in the Lord, Anna supports other women who are going through that same grief. She is an inspiration to those who hear her story and encouragement to anyone walking through a period of pain and sorrow.
...
Anna Kettle is a published author, podcaster, speaker, and award-winning marketing professional. Her first book, ‘Sand Between Your Toes: Inspirations for a Slower, Simpler, More Soulful Life’ is out now under Tyndale House. She is also the co-founder of SPACE, a miscarriage and infertility support network that provides space for women to connect, grieve and heal together. Having experienced multiple miscarriages herself, Anna can now be found regularly writing and speaking about miscarriage, infertility, grieving, and holding onto hope when things are hard. Anna is married to husband Andy, and mum to their son Ben (aged 6). They live in the beautiful waterfront city of Liverpool, England.
www.annakettle.com
www.instagram.com/annakettlewrites
www.facebook.com/annakettlewrites www.thereisspaceforyouhere.com
T12 Collective Community A faith-based community group supporting women journeying through grief and loss.
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
00:00.00
twelve12ministries
Hey anna welcome to the podcast. Yes, ok you guys this is so cool that anna and I we just connected really because I follow you on Instagram just like all of your accounts think you are just super talented.
00:02.17
Anna Kettle
Hey Nicole Thanks for having me alone.
00:11.98
Anna Kettle
Ah, her.
00:17.95
twelve12ministries
And I just love your heart just for people and for God and just all of the things and I just love what you are doing and what you're sharing.
00:26.74
Anna Kettle
Oh. Thanks Nicole I I honestly feel the same about you and your podcast and what you're doing for your ministry as well. So yeah, it's it's been really cool to connect and I love how you know for all of all of the. Parts of social media. It's just such cool tool for connecting with people all around the world. He just wouldn't connect with ordinarily and yeah, just finding people with a similar heart and ministry and similar challenges and um, yeah I I just think that's amazing. How god brings people into your life and. Strange wonderful ways like instagram.
01:01.84
twelve12ministries
I know I think that that is so great and just you know Anna and I really you guys were you know, kind of just catching up and and connecting prior to hitting record and. You know, finding out that we just like have similar stories and kind of in same similar seasons of life and so I'm just so excited to have have this conversation but Anna before we jump in I would love for you to just share. You know a little bit about you.
01:29.32
Anna Kettle
Yeah, sure. So my name's Anna kettle and I live in liverpool in england he might have realized my accents not american um, so that's kind of in the north of the yeah uk and um, yeah I work full time in Marketing. And I'm also a part-time christian writer and I launched my first book earlier this year under tyndale house was like a devational about rest and slowing down and finding a more soulful way of life I'm also a mum of 1 I have a little boy who's 6 and a half coming up to 7 um, and I lead a and infertility a miscarriage support group here in the yeah uk called space. It's all about just giving women and our area space to talk to other women who are in a similar place and just to. Kind of process some of that grief and challenge like that walking through and so yeah I set that up about a year ago with a couple of other friends who were walking through similar things so that's been pretty cool and but yeah, that's a little bit about me.
02:39.71
twelve12ministries
Nice. Thank you for sharing that and again I'm like oh awful like I was like taking mental notes like okay as soon as we you know are offline I have so many questions to ask you you know because this podcast purpose Beyond motherhood. You know we ah partner with twelve twelve ministries which
02:56.11
Anna Kettle
Will you.
02:58.56
twelve12ministries
Ah, ministry that supports women walking through infertility and pregnancy loss and I think when you started to share a lot of those things I was like oh my goodness I was like someone is finally talking about the things that no 1 else wants to talk about you know.
03:11.70
Anna Kettle
Yeah.
03:14.31
twelve12ministries
It was like you you were sharing kind of those raw and real parts of of infertility and miscarry it just like all the things that nobody wants to talk about. Um you know which kind of teases up our our conversation for today is just like hey what happens when either that answer is no. You know from the Lord or. You know you don't have that rainbow baby or you know you know that maybe it's not going to happen like how do we move forward and how do we press on because I'm I'm in that season right now just like we just were like okay, cool. This is it. We're we're going to hang up this conversation in.
03:43.83
Anna Kettle
Four.
03:53.85
twelve12ministries
You know you mentioned something earlier like hey yes God can do anything However, in the meantime you know if that's not the plan for for the family like how do you move forward from there.
04:05.65
Anna Kettle
Yeah I I think it's such a big challenge isn't it and I know yeah when you're in that infertility or Ricarra miscarriage space. It's like living in limbo all the time Really like you're always like maybe we'll get pregnant again. Maybe we were.
04:20.56
twelve12ministries
Um, google.
04:24.60
Anna Kettle
Maybe this pregnancy will go for its full term. Maybe it won't and it's really hard to live in that space um of like not knowing and uncertainty and being kind of in limbo between 2 things for a long long time and I know a lot of women do live in that space. But um I think a point comes like. Said where you sort of have to say okay, if god's able god is able and if if it's his will then great, but in the meantime I kind of have to move on with my life like I've kind of got to that point as well. Nicole where I've turned forty 1 this year
04:55.53
twelve12ministries
Are.
05:03.30
Anna Kettle
Um, I've been pregnant four times I only have 1 child um like who's you know who's living and I um yeah I just got to the point really where it's like I think we're probably through the season.
05:19.75
twelve12ministries
Um, Booie are.
05:21.61
Anna Kettle
And nothing's really changing and we've spent you know several years trying to get pregnant again and nothing's really happened and we're like aging out of that kind of fertility those fertility years and yeah I feel like it's it's like a both and it's like holding in that tension in hand isn't it of like. God is able. But even if not I'm just gonna get on with it's like that that verse from daniel but I feel like I'm in that space a lot of the moment and and that's been a real life First to me, it's like I no god can do it. But even if not, um.
05:41.13
twelve12ministries
Oh yeah.
05:52.76
twelve12ministries
In.
05:55.81
Anna Kettle
I'm going to worship him'm going to honor him with my life I'm going to serve him with my life and also I'm Goingnna live I'm going to move on and live my life and if he does it great and if he does because I think I think you can spend so long in limbo and just being kind of it creates a sense of and like inertia and like.
06:14.39
twelve12ministries
You boo? yeah.
06:15.30
Anna Kettle
Of movement and like you can't move forwards because you're always waiting for something to change and I feel like I just got to a point I don't know about you but I got to a point where I was like I need to move on from this season and begin to heal. But I can't heal while I'm still in it. Um, and I.
06:29.88
twelve12ministries
Be here.
06:32.83
Anna Kettle
I am very much about things. Don't need to be all neat and packaged and like you said I blog a lot on this on my website and I have blogged throughout this kind of 4 year journey I've been on and or 12 year really if you count for when my first little boy was born. Um, but it. I've blogged on it a lot and it's kind of I've blog I liked blog in the messy middle and talk about like you say the real things and the fact that it's not all neat but over the last couple years I really wrestle with this thing of like what happens when god doesn't answer your prayers. What doesn't seem to answer the prayers in the way you want and.
06:55.79
twelve12ministries
Um, yeah.
07:07.11
twelve12ministries
E.
07:09.96
Anna Kettle
You know it's so much of the infertility world and um baby loss Community is very fixated on that end goal of having a baby or having a rainbow baby If you've already if you've had losses and I think.
07:21.67
twelve12ministries
Yes.
07:25.85
Anna Kettle
That's understandable. You know that's kind of your common ground but it can become such a idol I think where it's like we so idolize motherhood in these communities that is the be all and end all and I so I Just love the fact that your podcast is called Um, you know it's called um.
07:31.12
twelve12ministries
Yes, in.
07:42.68
twelve12ministries
Yeah, the purpose Beyond motherhood. Yeah.
07:44.65
Anna Kettle
Sorry yeah, that was just out on memory blank at the wrong moment. Yeah purpose Beyond motherhood because that whole idea of like there has to be more than just motherhood about all lives as women and like you get to this age. Don't you and like yes motherhood is a gift and you know we're both lucky to have. 1 child each but mother or motherhood journey hasn't and worked out the way we wanted it to it doesn't look the way we expected and that's difficult and there's some stuff to grieve in that and there's some stuff to let go of in that. But also yeah I love that idea of god you know god has a purpose and.
08:08.98
twelve12ministries
Um, in it.
08:24.28
Anna Kettle
I I don't think God's purpose. Is you know I don't think it was God's purpose that we would that. Ah, you know, certainly for me I don't think it's God's purpose that we lost babies I don't think that's part of God's plan for us I think Miscarriage isn't God's will you know is very clearly in scripture part of the fall. You know that women would have.
08:30.26
twelve12ministries
Um e.
08:40.23
twelve12ministries
Are the.
08:43.46
Anna Kettle
Problems with Childbirth and death is very definitely a result of sin and the fallenness of our world. Um, so I don't believe that is ever part of God's plan. But I do believe that God has purpose for our lives beyond the mess beyond the pain beyond the brokenness Of. We live in you know and that's me is the thing like it's holding both of them in hand like the both and the you know the yes God can. But even if not, you know what's next God then and and that's very much space that I'm in right now. Um, yeah, just kind of looking for.
09:06.60
twelve12ministries
Um.
09:21.44
Anna Kettle
Yeah God I I don't want to live looking backwards all the time I want to look forwards and believe that there's regardless of my motherhood journey. There's so much more that you have for me in my life. So many years ahead that are partly you know I am a mother but also beyond my role as a mother I have so many other roles too or my friend I'm a.
09:22.86
twelve12ministries
Um, yeah.
09:37.56
twelve12ministries
In.
09:40.35
Anna Kettle
Wife I'm a work colleague I'm a writer I'm a you know? um yeah, a support to with the women like the same many other roles I have and yeah so purpose is and such an important thing to lay hold of isn't it and to remember um see yeah.
09:56.98
twelve12ministries
And I just I loved all of that I was like you can keep going but but I mean so you said so many things that that I want to to kind of just pull out really quickly. But but first how did you? what did it look like though to get to that space of.
10:01.39
Anna Kettle
But.
10:08.96
Anna Kettle
Well so.
10:16.33
twelve12ministries
And even if if not you know God is still good and I'll be good. You know like what just what did that look like for you to get to that space.
10:24.10
Anna Kettle
Um I think it looked messy I think it took time I think it looked like a lot of me wrestling with God but this is what I want. Um, why not God and lots of questions I think it looked like a lot of honesty. So.
10:37.75
twelve12ministries
Yeah.
10:43.65
Anna Kettle
Don't think you can move to that space until you get really real with God and say God I'm really disappointed I'm really angry about what's happened I'm really hurt I don't understand I've got so many questions like why didn't this happen for me and why didn't you come through and answer my prayers. The way you have done some other people that I know and you know and I think it takes.
10:54.31
twelve12ministries
Who.
11:03.15
Anna Kettle
And it looked a lot of it looked like maybe getting on my own before God in my bedroom and shouting and screaming and using some not particularly nice language and you know and whatever it needed to get some of that emation out and get real with God and I think that's where healing begins when we're really real and.
11:07.11
twelve12ministries
Um, yeah, yeah.
11:22.76
Anna Kettle
Um, and I think it's a process. It looked messy and it looked like lots of ah ups and downs and to be fair I'm you know I'm still in that process in some ways I don't think it's spinish I think it looks like most days I'm good like you say and then some days I still have a off day like today as we're talking.
11:29.62
twelve12ministries
Um.
11:42.30
Anna Kettle
Like 4 years to the day since my first miscarriage and um so you know that's I've actually had quite a good day and I've not thought about it much. But you know I know this season coming into Christmas is is tough because it brings up a lot of stuff around I had a quite prolonged first miscarriage and.
11:43.39
twelve12ministries
Oh Wow. And it.
12:01.48
Anna Kettle
You know every year I kind of think oh you know it just it's just put a bit of a damner on this time of year and like carrying that kind of memory of loss and through it. It's like bittersweet and yeah so I'd say it's messy and it's not all neat and it doesn't look like telling.
12:06.57
twelve12ministries
Yeah. E.
12:18.76
Anna Kettle
Telling God What you think he wants to hear I think it looks like being really really honest before God and um, yeah, and and being okay with it being quite up and down that like some days will be good and some days will be harder and just being real with with God with yourself with others around you like. Husband and friends about where you are and where you're at and that it's okay to have down days and it's great If You have good days as well and you know right Now. It's mostly good days for me, you know like it's I feel like I've I've moved beyond the eye of the storm and things are getting a bit easier.
12:49.73
twelve12ministries
E.
12:57.30
Anna Kettle
And I'm kind of coming to terms with everything we've been through but um I'm not foolish enough to think that it's all done and it's all neatly packaged because I don't think that's how grief works and and loss works and leaving behind. Um yeah, unfulfilled dreams and hopes and.
13:03.89
twelve12ministries
Yeah.
13:12.52
twelve12ministries
Yeah, oh um I Definitely agree you know I I love that you you know it's almost like that collateral beauty like there's still like some really.
13:14.97
Anna Kettle
You know, disappointment takes time to process I Think how about you.
13:27.60
Anna Kettle
Over.
13:31.18
twelve12ministries
Yucky things about it. But then you know still finding joy in in the middle and it took it took a really long time for me to to find the joy because that was just my focus I was like how how do we expand our family and so even in seasons of you know I'm going to use the word drought.
13:40.14
Anna Kettle
Yeah.
13:48.26
Anna Kettle
A.
13:50.18
twelve12ministries
You know that still was something that was on my heart and so even maybe you know we're not trying or we're not even having the conversation that was still on my heart. It was still on my mind. Um in in just recently maybe 2 months ago I was like okay I'm fasting and I'm praying. For our family to expand for us to have another baby and I said after this date I'm letting it go because now this is like years I don't even know how long you know it's like years of just like hoping wishing praying you know doing all of the things and you know during that time.
14:08.90
Anna Kettle
Of us.
14:15.38
Anna Kettle
Yeah.
14:24.67
twelve12ministries
The lord really started to show me things about my business about the podcast about the ministry and I was like wait a second. He's answering my prayer in a different in a different way and and I think it took me a little bit still I mean still kind of just like okay lord.
14:34.11
Anna Kettle
Yeah.
14:44.22
twelve12ministries
I trust you I know that you know what's best for my life more than I do and I have to just move forward in obedience of what what you're asking me to do instead of just focusing on this 1 thing because even my prayer life has just opened up. You know is it like that was like.
14:47.27
Anna Kettle
A.
14:55.77
Anna Kettle
Um, yeah, yeah.
15:02.41
twelve12ministries
You know, not not to be childish. But I'm like dear Lord please let us get pregnant today. You know.
15:05.19
Anna Kettle
Yeah, yeah, exactly you can be come so fixated on that 1 thing dont either. It's like yeah, you're not listening to god about anything else that that's what I found at times. It's like I only want to talk to you about this 1 thing and like if we had any other relationship like that. It's ridiculous isn't it I'm only going to talk so like.
15:13.15
twelve12ministries
Right.
15:24.55
Anna Kettle
My husband about pregnancy nothing else like for weeks on end like is the only thing I want to ask people. It's like that's not a 2 wo-way relationship but I I also think you know it's yeah I just relate so much of it and for me I think the challenge has been to like so much of.
15:24.76
twelve12ministries
Yes, right? I know I mean.
15:44.47
Anna Kettle
Um, my experience of this and and the wider Infertility Community has been. It's so outcomes focused and it's so easy to become very outcome focused and that like all of your hope is stuffed into this idea of having another baby or having a baby and like what happens when that.
15:51.17
twelve12ministries
Um, yeah.
15:58.33
twelve12ministries
Here.
16:03.35
Anna Kettle
Doesn't happen like I I've had to really unpackage this idea of hope and like where is my hope and what's my hope actually in and like it's yeah it can't be like outcomes based like oh you know I trust God if he does what I want and you know actually it's like my hope isn't you know.
16:07.13
twelve12ministries
Yeah.
16:17.18
twelve12ministries
Lu fifth.
16:22.87
Anna Kettle
When you look at hope in the bible biblically hope is in god alone. It's in Christ alone. It's in what he's already done for us on the cross. That's our hope you know anything else that we get any other gifts is above and beyond. It's a bonus but actually that's the only hope that sha and solid and like a firm foundation between.
16:29.42
twelve12ministries
Yeah.
16:42.42
Anna Kettle
But you know beneath our feet and I that's what I keep coming back to it's like actually where is my hope my hopes and god alone and you know and work that Christ has already done for me on the cross. It can't anything else is just it's like pseudo. You know it's like a pseudo hope it's.
16:52.29
twelve12ministries
Okay.
17:00.23
twelve12ministries
Yes, yeah.
17:01.15
Anna Kettle
Like a false soap isn't it because it may or may not come. It may or may not happen and there's lots of things we can hope for and I'm not saying that's wrong's you know there's nothing wrong with hoping for a baby. There's nothing wrong with hoping for good things in your career or anything else, but it's like.
17:06.11
twelve12ministries
Um.
17:13.49
twelve12ministries
Right.
17:16.47
Anna Kettle
All shift shifting sands and what I've realized is that only anything that is found can be a foundation for my life and yeah, the only thing that's like a firm foundation is Christ's work alone and christ alone and. Yeah, for me, it's like been that revelation of coming back to that that actually I need a hope I can depend on you know, not a hope that moves around with my circumstance or feelings and and that's the only thing that doesn't change and I know that we know that like as christians it's like sounds so basic. But I think.
17:36.12
twelve12ministries
Um, yeah.
17:51.43
Anna Kettle
Part of this experience of what I've been through is realizing that it's 1 thing to say oh yeah I know you know god saw any hope and you know it's in Christ's work alone and it's easy to say and roll off but actually now I know it because I know it because I know it because I've had all the things stripped away and yeah.
17:57.45
twelve12ministries
The name.
18:04.42
twelve12ministries
Yeah.
18:10.12
Anna Kettle
There's something about that. That's very powerful.
18:14.24
twelve12ministries
I'm just like you're so great I Love talking you. Thank you again. I Just appreciate your honesty in in just your wisdom in in knowing where your hope comes from and you talked earlier when you were kind of sharing your story just about about the idols.
18:14.53
Anna Kettle
Ah, yeah.
18:31.54
twelve12ministries
You know and it's so easy for things just to become an idol in our life and really put our hope in that. But what is you know? what are we standing on like what is that firm foundation. So I'm I'm grateful for that. Thank you for sharing and you're so awesome. Okay.
18:32.73
Anna Kettle
The.
18:40.67
Anna Kettle
Um, or yeah, their worries.
18:50.71
twelve12ministries
And I know I'm like I can just continue to talk to you? Okay, so but tell everybody really quick because you know how can they find you online. How can they get? How can they get your book and just do all the things.
18:59.47
Anna Kettle
Yeah, so I'm um, I'm at Anna kettle dot com that's probably the easiest way to find me on my website and I'm also on Instagram and facebook quite a lot I'm pinterest a little bit but mainly instagram. And but all of my social feeds are on the website. It's the easiest saying it's just go to annakettle dot com my blogs there. My links to Instagram and all the other things are there and so that's there and also you can find my book on that website too. It's called sand between your toes and it's also available to buy in most good. Bookshops. It's on amazon and wherever you like to buy christian books really and so yeah, please do look me up I I love connecting with people.
19:40.16
twelve12ministries
Awesome. That's so great. Thank you for sharing and I'll definitely include that in the show notes but your book I Really want to not to get off topic but I'm looking forward to reading that because I am you know I would be a workaholic if if. Someone would just like just leave me a you know what? I mean like leave me alone and let me in my own mind and in world and just and not rest and take a sabbath and just be like go go go all the time. Um, and so you know and so in.
20:01.11
Anna Kettle
Yes.
20:08.70
Anna Kettle
Yeah I meant a little like that to.
20:15.71
twelve12ministries
In this new year and new season. You know that's something that I'm I'm really trying to do a deep dive on and just I mean like you said, where's my hope what? What are my feet standing on it and what's important and and what's an idol and so just grateful for the work that you do.
20:25.79
Anna Kettle
Um, oh thank you and as am I really grateful for you do or your ministry. It's so cool. Nicole.
20:35.60
twelve12ministries
Thank you? Okay anna I just have your final 2 before we jump off. Okay and so you know on this podcast just I love love love just sharing hope and sharing god's goodness and I truly believe that the Lord uses our stories to change the world.
20:51.91
Anna Kettle
Then.
20:53.74
twelve12ministries
Um, and so I would just love to know how did your puzzle pieces lead you to where you are today.
20:59.22
Anna Kettle
Um, I think that where I am today is um, just more more sure of my faith more sure of who god is in spite of the fact that I carry more questions and I think most of all. Where it's led me my story up till today where it's led me is to have more compassion for other people. So I think maybe up to up to this sort of challenge in my life like you know life wasn't perfect. But I'd never really had any major issues. Ah gone majorly wrong, nothing major had.
21:23.70
twelve12ministries
Um.
21:38.64
Anna Kettle
Been disrupted in my life life was pretty good I ticked along quite nicely and so yeah I think it's really tested my faith and but it's also given me much more of a compassion for the people who are hurting whether that's grief through pregnancy loss like me or infertility.
21:56.21
twelve12ministries
It.
21:58.33
Anna Kettle
Or it's ah, a different type of grief or pain you know, entirely like living with long-term illness or grieving relative who's died you know or lots of other things. It's It's just given me much more compassion and time for people who are hurting and um for people who don't have nice neat stories.
22:07.20
twelve12ministries
Yeah.
22:17.79
twelve12ministries
Yeah.
22:18.25
Anna Kettle
And don't have all the answers. It's made me realize I don't have them all. But actually what I do have is the ability to sit with people in their pain and to listen and to be there and and yeah and that's it really I think that's what that's what's. That's where it's brought me to and obviously part of that has been that I've set up this and pregnancy loss community in england as well and which is still its early days. You know it's only been running for a year or so but yeah, all of that has led all of what I've been through has led me up to this point where I think.
22:40.11
twelve12ministries
A.
22:53.76
Anna Kettle
Ah, wouldn't be doing these things and it wouldn't be the person that I am and I don't think I I don't therefore say oh God you know it's not. It's not not my fear that God therefore intended these things to happens to to teach me this. But I think that's the things I've learned through at.
23:08.79
twelve12ministries
E.
23:13.30
Anna Kettle
And that's been the good that has come out of it even though if I could rewrite my story I would still rather not have been through it all so just being purely honest. Yeah.
23:21.70
twelve12ministries
Ah, yeah, that's awesome and then I just think you do such a great job at just shining bright and not hiding your light and so have you always been that way in what can you share with us just to encourage us.
23:35.46
Anna Kettle
Um I don't know have I always been that way. I think I think I'm quite a quite an open person. You know like I've always been a riser I've always been a communicator and so I Think. Kind of what you see is what you get when it comes to me like I'm quite an out open person I'm an open book I Yeah so I suppose Yeah, my faith is part of who I am I've grown up as a Christian I've come from a Christian family. Um, and.
23:54.76
twelve12ministries
And.
24:10.25
Anna Kettle
You know Jesus has always been part of my life. So I guess that has always been there and because I'm vocal I've always been quite comfortable to talk about it in different ways and the good the bad and the hard stuff. You know it's yeah so but yeah, absolutely and ah you know.
24:17.48
twelve12ministries
E.
24:27.38
Anna Kettle
Thank you for saying that you think my light shines I yeah feel like it does some days more than others but don't we all I guess.
24:32.60
twelve12ministries
I Know that's for all of us. Well Anna I'm so grateful for you. Thank you so much for your time and you're just amazing continue just sharing all the things and then just doing all of the things just appreciate you so much huh.
24:45.78
Anna Kettle
Thanks Nicole! Thanks for having me on.
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