Rethinking Aging: Science, Society, And The Stories We Tell

Want a longer life that still feels like yours? We sit down with psychologist Christina Röcke of the University of Zurich’s Healthy Longevity Center to unpack what actually fuels healthy aging—and what’s just marketing noise. From blue-zone myths to AI-driven biohacking, we trace why the longevity boom exploded and where the evidence really points: consistent movement, quality relationships, realistic stress strategies, and communities that make healthy choices simple.

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Journalist: Jessica Davis Plüss
Host: Jo Fahy
Audio editor/video journalist: Michele Andina
Distribution and Marketing: Xin Zhang

SWI swissinfo.ch is a public service media company based in Bern, Switzerland.

Chapters

• 0:00 Setting The Longevity Stage
• 2:43 Why Longevity Interest Surged
• 5:45 Blue Zones And Oversimplified Narratives
• 9:18 Tech, Tracking, And Control Illusions
• 12:34 What Evidence Actually Supports Health
• 15:43 Beyond Individuals: Building Supportive Environments
• 19:22 Perceptions Of Aging Shape Health

Transcript

Jo Fahy: 1:06

Hello, I'm Jo Fahy, and this is a Swissinfo podcast. Swissinfo is the multilingual and international public media company of Switzerland. Breakthroughs in medicine and technology are opening possibilities for longer, healthier lives. But is it all good news? In our last episode of this season's Swiss Connection Science podcast, we hear from a psychologist about our quest for longer, healthier lives and what it could mean for society. In previous episodes, we talked a lot about new technologies, health clinics and treatments that promise to slow down aging and help us live longer. But the quality of life in old age is much more than this. It's also about our relationships with each other and how we perceive aging as well. Once again, we're joined by our healthcare reporter, Jessica Davis Plus. And in this episode, she's speaking with Christina Rucker, a psychologist at the Healthy Longevity Center at the University of Zurich.

Jessica Davis Plüss: 2:23

The Healthy Longevity Center works on a range of projects from studying how social stress and isolation affects aging to creating e-learning programs for seniors. The focus is really on improving our quality of life in our later years. I wanted to speak with Christina Rucke, who is the director of the center, to gain a broader perspective of the latest longevity trend. What do you think really has driven this interest in longevity in the last few years? There have always been waves, I guess, but.

Christina Röcke: 2:56

Right. I mean, I do think that there are a couple developments that probably, from my point of view, drove this. So one certainly is the research that, you know, sort of really made it seem possible to describe aging along the lines of a select set of indicators, such as these hallmarks of aging, coupled with an interest in how we have people in select regions of the world that seem to live very long. So these blue zones came in that seemed attractive, you know, interesting places, very diverse at first glance. There was Italy, and then you have Japan, and it's so, you know, what makes these places so special? And then you had this increasing um lifespan statistics that sort of transpired through in the media. And I think related to that, the question of, which is actually an old question, the revisiting the question, well, do we just add years to life or do we add life to years? And wouldn't we want the latter? Um, I think then we in parallel, all this technology innovation happened, new forms of data mining, really from very seemingly technical machine learning to suddenly it was called artificial intelligence. But then, you know, it suddenly artificial intelligence made it also seem possible to I think control something that a lot of people I think have long regarded as uncontrollable, such as aging. So I think with the advent of these kinds of tracking devices, you know, Fitbit and all that, it also made people more aware of certain how their behavior may suddenly be more accessible to them because they suddenly received more feedback. And that I think then sparked a strong interest that people have in shaping their own development and shaping you know their own behavior. So I think in part it was, I think, technology development with machine learning, artificial intelligence, data suddenly became a thing.

Jessica Davis Plüss: 5:21

As exciting as this all is, Rucke says that there's a lot of oversimplification in the communication around aging and longevity in order to appeal to consumers.

Christina Röcke: 5:31

I think oftentimes new developments work with extremes before they level to some sort of normal level. These blue zones, you know, it's like these people who live exceptionally long. You have these figures like Brian Johnson, or you have these hallmarks of aging. And I think people want to simplify stories. And I think that's also one of the dangers, to be honest, because aging is super complex. That's why I find some of the longevity communication and also these advocates who come from this investment background. Well, I am very critical of some of that, because they try to make something sound simple that is not simple. When you have something as complex as aging, that despite lots of developments and lots of knowledge gain, still, if you look into different areas, is still quite poorly understood in its entirety. And also how individual processes actually interact with one another. You cannot work on one little detail like one nutritional supplement, or you suddenly take cold showers every morning to actually think that this will have an impact, surely, for you or for me 30 years from now in our longevity.

Jessica Davis Plüss: 7:00

Ruke doesn't dismiss the entire longevity field, though. She says that the science just isn't there yet to know whether certain pills, supplements, or therapies improve healthy aging. There is solid evidence in some areas, like physical activity, but longevity is much more than this, she says.

Christina Röcke: 7:20

Trying to balance stress, I think it's not helpful to tell people not to be stressed because a lot of our, you know, work life or family life is not always, you know, totally chilled and smooth. But to try to find ways of individually dealing with stress. And I think from a psychological point of view, focusing on your social relations, not so much in terms of quantity, but in terms of quality. Every person is different. We know people who really need our social butterflies and they need a lot of people around them. And there's others who really need one trusted person. But I think we shouldn't underestimate the effect of social relations. That's also something that's been shown in the Harvard study, happiness study, over and over again. So I would say physical activity and social relations, among other things, that's the two key aspects that take you very far and that everybody can do. But now you will say, well, yeah, we know this and we know all this, and still people get sick. Yes, I think what we need to do much better, and that is also why I'm so critical of some of these longevity developments, is they tend to focus only on the person. So everybody is like an egocentric person, tries to maximize their own health, but we don't live in a vacuum. We live in a society, we live in a street, we live in a neighborhood, we have a family. So these environments also need to foster the ability to also deal with age-related changes and to uh spark your optimism. We know that a lot of people actually do very well in adjusting to age-related changes. They are very diverse. Not everybody loses their memory. And we see that the majority of older adults, quite into old age, are quite happy and satisfied. And that's not because they're completely delusional, but it's because they have found ways of effectively dealing with change. I think people need action or need to feel that they are in control. What I think is good about the longevity trend is that it reminds people that there is something you can do. You can become an active co-regulator of your health. We don't need to be sitting on the sofa eating chips, drinking beer, and Netflixing our way through life over years. We can take, you know, responsibility of our health. And we do. I mean, we brush our teeth because there have been, you know, public health. We buckle up in cars because I mean, there is so much people already do. But I think we also need the environment to support aging well, and we also need to enable people to actually learn how to accept we will die. I would wish that communities don't lose focus of also investing money into our structures, services, and societal environments of being there's pros and cons for this term age-friendly, because I think a lot of what is age-friendly is just human-friendly. I mean, having, you know, interaction zones, um, having enough benches to rest, having easy access to public transport is usually appreciated by everyone, not only older adults. Um, so I think if the longevity trend fosters people to be a reminder of their stuff, you can do. Aging is not just fate that comes over you, but to not leave people alone.

Jessica Davis Plüss: 11:48

How we deal with aging is very much tied to how we perceive aging individually and as a society. And one fear Rucke has is that all this talk about how not to die, how not to get old, could actually have a real negative effect on how we deal with the natural changes that happen as we age.

Christina Röcke: 12:08

So our perceptions of aging actually shape our health and our mortality risk, even because they influence, for instance, our behavior. You know, if you think aging will happen and it's all gonna go downhill, then you may not be so motivated to actually learn new things or try to consider how you can actively live your life past retirement, or you won't go regularly to doctor checkups because you think, well, you know what, I'm gonna lose it anyway. It also does influence our physical processes. So we know, for instance, cardiovascular stress responses and biomarkers in the brain that are predictive of dementia risk, all these are also influenced by perceptions of aging. So the longevity trends that that trend currently to me heavily lies on or relies on a very negative perception of aging, very deficit-oriented. That's why we have to avoid that and get rid of that. That is completely contraproductive because that we have very good evidence is harming people's health and lifespan. On the other hand, I think it's also not useful to replace a deficit focus on aging by a everybody needs to be super active because that is possible now.

Jessica Davis Plüss: 13:36

There's also a key concern that the current longevity trend is going to lead to less empathy and compassion for each other, and particularly for older people.

Christina Röcke: 13:45

So at 90, we run the marathon and we all do it. At 70, at 80, we're still fully emerged in work life. If that becomes the new norm, that also misses out an opportunity for those who are not capable, for those who are not as fit anymore, for those who may be tired of living. And it it hinders our ability to also learn acceptance of deficits that are coming. So I think there's a lot going on with perceptions of aging, and it would be very detrimental if the longevity trend, and that's I think is currently happening, that's what I criticize, is working with an anti-aging view that luckily, if this was targeting women or homosexuals or Jews or you name it, would no longer be acceptable. But being anti-aging is completely fine nowadays.

Jessica Davis Plüss: 14:44

Yeah, I mean, and that's a problem. It is uh no, I definitely I have a neighbor who's in her 80s, and you know, of course she's struggling, but she says, you know, getting older is also beautiful. Yeah, you know, there is something very liberating and everything. I guess my last question is really about Switzerland. And I mean, Swiss people do have high life expectancy. And I just wondered when you observe how Swiss people look at aging, and you know, obviously there's the obvious question is why do people who live long here? Um, but I guess my other question on top of that is some of it related to how aging is viewed and how older people are cared for.

Christina Röcke: 15:31

So I think there are a number of factors that so there is actually research on perceptions of aging in Switzerland. There's a recent study that has only looked at German-speaking Switzerland, I should say, but but it was a representative sample. And they found that overall the perception of the like the characteristics that are being ascribed to old age and to older adults are quite positive. In a lot of Swiss communities, there is quite an awareness in Switzerland that there are different phases in life that may have individual and specific needs. So very early on, a lot of communities or communities actually put like somebody in the city council in charge of this life phase old age to network.

Jessica Davis Plüss: 16:27

Swiss cities and cantons have specialized departments for the elderly. These departments offer a range of services to seniors, including advice about the best living situation and nutritional needs. Many of these departments are also responsible for developing and implementing a strategy for the elderly.

Christina Röcke: 16:45

For instance, there are several cities in Switzerland, and Zurich is one of them, that actually have an aging strategy that every department, from the Trump chauffeurs to the public uh, you know, cleaning company, uh, to the recycling offices, the electricity company, etc., they all work under a certain strategy. So I think Switzerland is quite good in giving a voice to older adults. Switzerland has done exceptionally well in fostering a healthy lifestyle. Yeah. I mean, I I'm from Berlin, Germany, originally, and when we moved here close to 20 years ago, I was amazed at how also how slim everybody seemed to be. So I think there is quite a lot of wealth in this country, obviously. But that is important to mention because it entails that people also have time to invest their free time into being physically active. There's also, as we both know, an excellent public transport system.

Jessica Davis Plüss: 17:59

I mean, people walk places, yeah.

Christina Röcke: 18:01

And then they walk places. I mean, and they do that in Germany as well, but here it's even more so. Then you have, of course, lots of outdoor leisure stuff very close by. I think the healthcare system, you know, is is is is obviously also very good, but it also supports taking responsibility. So I think all of these are little bits and pieces. Very early on, I think people are being taught that you have a responsibility, but also the world in which you exist helps you in, you know, being active, in brushing your teeth, the kids are being checked, etc. All of this, I think, fosters a high quality of life for people, but I think it's coupled with own responsibility and an infrastructure that really also makes being active a lifestyle here much more, much broader in terms of society.

Jessica Davis Plüss: 19:05

Thank you so much. I personally enjoyed this conversation so much.

Jo Fahy: 19:16

Once again, thanks, Jessica. So, in these last six episodes, we've learned a lot about new therapies for diseases like Alzheimer's or how AI could speed up drug development and different ways to look at aging and longevity. And I'd really love to know if there's anything that you've changed, Jessica, in your daily life after all of these reports that you've been making on healthier living in old age.

Jessica Davis Plüss: 19:41

I have made some changes to my sports and nutrition routine, but above all, I've actually gained more respect for the aging process. I've realized how complex it is and to be more sensitive to some of the big longevity marketing hype out there. But I've also gained a new appreciation for what my father, older neighbors, and friends are going through.

Jo Fahy: 20:04

Well, it's been a really fascinating season, so thank you so much, Jessica. And if anyone has missed any of our episodes this season on longevity, don't worry, you can go back and listen to any episode you like wherever you get your podcasts. And the Swiss Connection Science Podcast will be back soon with new science topics as well. Today's episode was recorded and edited by our science and video journalist Michaeli Andina. For more content, visit our website swisinfo.ch. I'm Joe Fay, thanks for listening.