Bonus Episode - Inside Switzerland’s Quiet Rise as a Longevity Hub

How did longevity go from a social media trend to a focus of serious science?
In this special bonus episode our host, Jo Fahy, is joined in the studio by pharmaceuticals and healthcare reporter, Jessica Davis Pluss. We trace how Switzerland was uniquely positioned to become a global hub for healthier ageing. We also compare lifespan and health span, examine why access to clinics is so tightly guarded, and discuss why the pharmaceutical industry is moving cautiously in this growing field.

SWI swissinfo.ch is a public service media company based in Bern, Switzerland. 

Transcript

Why Longevity, Why Now

Jo Fahy 0:52

Swiss Info Podcasts. Hello and welcome to a special bonus episode of the Swiss Connection Science Podcast. I'm Jo Fay, and I'm here in the studio today with our pharmaceuticals and healthcare reporter Jessica Davis Plus. It's going to be a very special bonus episode where we'll be finding out about how she did the reporting that you heard in our last season and also how Jessica found out about the many exciting topics that we reported on in this whole global movement of longevity that we've been discussing recently. Thanks for joining me, Jessica. Happy to be here. So, Jessica, you started researching longevity and the science of aging way back in 2024. Why did you decide to report on it then, at that specific moment in time?

Jessica Davis Plüss 1:46

Well, I have to say there's a lot of reasons. There were a lot of other people reporting on it, but a lot of attention was coming from a lot of social media influencers, of course. And I think Brian Johnson is one that many people know as well as Peter Atia. But there were also a few scientific books coming out about longevity. And I just started to become interested in this topic and the people behind it. But there were a few other, maybe more personal factors and some things that were very specific to Switzerland. So there were also conferences in Switzerland that started to pop up, longevity conferences, one in particular in Gestad, that was attracting a lot of investors. And then there were also clinics popping up even on my Instagram feed. There were different kinds of clinics being advertised, and I really wanted to know more about this movement. And then just on this personal side, I spent the summer in 2024 with my dad, with my father, and some of his friends. And I also started to notice there how different people age. So my dad is in his 70s, and many of his friends are in their 70s, and I noticed that some people were losing their memory, some people were having trouble walking, some people were getting very serious illnesses. And I wanted to understand a bit more why are we why do we all age differently? And is longevity and aging is this just this one monolithic thing, or um is there much more to it? And yeah, can we actually take a pill or go to a clinic and and will all our problems be solved? So I have to say those are a few things. And then just to end this, um, I decided, and luckily my editor said it was okay for me to go to a conference that was really focused on the science of aging, and there uh that really opened my mind, I have to say, because I really met the scientists, the people have been studying this for much longer than 2024, I mean for decades, and it was really interesting to see where we are in the science and what was exciting people there.

Gaining Access To Swiss Clinics

Jo Fahy 3:47

Yeah. And like you said, it's very interesting, isn't it, that once you start paying attention to specific topics or, you know, in this case, very specifically longevity, you start to see this stuff everywhere. I mentioned a few times to you that I saw things in films, maybe about the more kind of extreme idea people have of longevity. Um, but I've also seen lots of it on social media as well. So it's a very kind of noticeable trend at the moment, isn't it? And you mentioned there these clinics that we have in Switzerland, and they're clearly very exclusive, and privacy is understandably very important for clients as well. How did you get those clinics to speak to you?

Sorting Science From Hype

Jessica Davis Plüss 4:24

It's a really good question because I think just this concept of a clinic, um, I wanted to understand what we meant by a longevity clinic. Of course, there are health clinics where you can go and get uh treatment or advice, um, see a doctor, a consultation. But this concept of a longevity clinic, I really wanted to understand what it is and is it really something new, or is it something that we've had and we're just giving it a new name? Um, but as you said, it is, you know, many of the clinics, they really cater to a wealthy class, you know, uh higher income, as well as many VIPs, um, actors, um, singers, uh, politicians. And so I I knew it was going to be difficult to get in there. But I have to say that there were a few things that I wanted. One is I wanted to see a diversity of clinics. And there was one clinic that opened up in Zurich, and now there are a few more in Zurich that have opened up that are day clinics, and that was one I mentioned in the podcast called Ayun. And I wanted to see what are these day clinics that are actually appealing to a much more general population. So more people who are have busy lifestyles and they want to kind of pop in. And I thought that's interesting that you can just go in for the day, and then do you come out younger? What is it like? That would be amazing. Yeah, that would, right? Um, so I wanted to see a day clinic, but I also wanted to go to some of these more exclusive clinics, and I have to say, it took a lot of persistence, um, you know, continuous calls with the communications people at some of these clinics. Um, but I think especially for Clint La Praie, which was one of the clinics I really wanted to visit because it has the longest history in this space of longevity, and is also really trying to advance the knowledge and research in this area. That one of the things I think that helped was emphasizing Switzerland and the role of Switzerland and the fact that a lot of this started here and connected with nature and the quality of life and the quality of healthcare here. But I have to say doing video there was also very difficult. So many places didn't want to show what uh it looks like inside.

Jo Fahy 6:30

I think the really interesting part of this story is that Switzerland has this very long and traditional history of clinics. Although, of course, many years ago it was a different kind of clinic, but now we have longevity or healthier aging clinics. So I can see why Switzerland has come to be kind of associated with this idea of very specialized medical treatment. Um let's get to the science behind longevity and aging, because some of the topics that we spoke about uh in our last season were very specialized. Is it difficult to sort facts from pseudoscience? Because I think that must be a really key point that people need to know about.

Lifespan Versus Health Span

Jessica Davis Plüss 7:08

I think that it is it is very difficult, especially for something where there is so much hype, and now with social media, of course, things are promoted in longevity just as a word, is very easy to say, but what does it actually mean? The other factor in this question of pseudoscience is the fact that many people want to look and feel younger. And is looking younger actually being younger? And what does it actually mean, this idea of lifespan, extending lifespan, extending health span, and actually living a longer life? You know, women, for example, they often live longer than men, but they don't live in good health. And so it was a question of really how do we define longevity, how are they defining aging? So even some of those basic questions are much more difficult than they look on social media. And there was one really important paper and concept that came out in 2013, which was called the hallmarks of aging, and it really identified these different elements of aging. And I think that is a framework, you could say, that many of the scientists are using, and it really helped give me direction to think, okay, autophagy or different aspects of aging and of longevity, how far are we in really understanding these? And how far are we in actually being able to address them to be able to, you know, extend health span? And of course, speaking to experts really helps. And there were many people I spoke to, but I think people like Brian Kennedy, who's at um who's in Singapore at the longevity center there, he really helped kind of, you know, I could just ask him, how far are we and really being able to extend our lifespan, or how far are we in terms of understanding the science? Also, a woman named Evelyn Bischoff, who's in China and also spends time in other countries, she really helped kind of level set and help me feel, okay, no, we haven't solved all of the things despite what everyone's saying about longevity on social media. There's still a lot we don't know. Um, but we have to work with what we have, and we do know some things about the science of aging and um and how to extend our lifespan or health span in some way.

Jo Fahy 9:19

And in case somebody missed that episode last season where we talked about the difference between lifespan and health span, could you just explain that concept to us? Because that was something new to me when we talked about it then.

Switzerland’s Path To Longevity Leadership

Jessica Davis Plüss 9:30

Sure, I think life, I mean, in in simple terms, lifespan is really the number of years that you live. So um, you know, we've been able to um uh improve or increase our lifespan, um, let's say five, ten years or or something like that. And that's been happening uh uh a lot, and we've been able to measure that. What's a bit more difficult, and I think a lot of the clinics and a lot of the people in the space really want to focus on is extending our health span, which means the period of time, particularly at the end of life, where we live in good health. And that I think is you know, many people in older age would say, you know, maybe I don't, you know, of course it would be great to live until I'm 100, 110, 120, but if I have to live those years without being able to, you know, recognize my grandchildren or great-grandchildren, or be able to walk to my favorite park, then you know, maybe lifespan isn't so exciting. So those concepts I think have become really, really important in the longevity space. Great.

Jo Fahy 10:31

Thank you, Jessica. And I'd really like to come back to uh what we touched on briefly before was this idea of Switzerland's role in all of this, this tiny little country of Switzerland in the middle of Europe. How did it come to be significant in this very global trend of longevity and living healthier for longer?

Saudi Arabia Steps Into Longevity

Jessica Davis Plüss 10:49

Yeah, Switzerland played a really interesting role in the longevity movement. I mean, hundreds of actually even thousands of years ago, and it started with the thermal waters and this belief that the water itself had this kind of um uh youth cure, or that it could actually have these properties that could um extend your life or give you a youthful glow in some way, cure diseases and things like that. Of course, some of those things were myths, but they still kind of helped keep that mystique and this idea in Switzerland that it is a place to come for longevity and for these kinds of youth cures. And of course, you have the natural beauty, you have the mountain air, you have the thermal waters, but there were other things in Switzerland, and I think some of it was actually very much tied to the science and the research and technology that is here, and that people have been very open. And at Clinique La Prairie, for example, some of the first work on stem cells was done. Um, and I think Switzerland has always been quite open to new technology and research, and of course, has the money to be able to spend and does attract a lot of wealthy people who are interested coming from all over the world. So, actually, in working on the video for some of these articles, we went back and found so much archive footage of people coming from China, from Russia, from Saudi Arabia, from all over the world here to look for these kinds of youth cures or longevity treatments. And of course, the high-quality health care I should mention that people do also do just come for the quality of the devices, the hospitals, the doctors, and things like that. And I think all of this has helped Switzerland become a place. And lastly, I thought the other one was the last thing I wanted to say, but of course I should have spoken in threes in the beginning, was the privacy and exclusivity. So I think an important factor was people could come here and they felt that they could be left alone, they could seek their longevity cures or their youth cures without anyone prying into their business and knowing that they were here. And that's something that even to today at some of the clinics that I visited, um, they were very, very um conscious and concerned about any revelation or revealing who were some of their clients. And I think that is is definitely has been a draw to Switzerland for this kind of longevity space.

Jo Fahy 13:21

Yeah, I mean, Switzerland's got such a long-standing reputation for privacy, exclusivity, uh, and a kind of attracting wealthy people from around the world for a whole whole range of things from skiing to healthcare, as you said. So it was kind of ideally placed, I think, to step into this role, even. Um, you also mentioned Saudi Arabia there, and I'd like to come back to that because there were some stories that you worked on that we didn't bring into the podcast, and one of them was about Saudi Arabia's involvement in this field, for example. So it's not just a Western phenomenon, not at all. Can you tell us more about that?

Jessica Davis Plüss 13:53

Yes, so it was interesting. Doing the research for this, there were a couple of times, and even some of the clinics that I spoke to that said that they were building clinics. One of their next places they were going to build a clinic was going to be in um one of the Gulf countries. Saudi Arabia was mentioned a lot, on the one hand, for the interest of the population that have an interest, and some of it is tied to maybe um cosmetic treatments, but also kinds of preventative health care treatments or um interventions of some kind. But then on the other hand, the kingdom of Saudi Arabia, even the Crown Prince, has actually emphasized preventative health care and specifically this concept of health span and created a foundation called the Hevolution Foundation to invest in, you could say, drug development or other kinds of interventions, but we're not talking about interventions like go exercise. We're really talking about to invest in the science, potentially scientific treatments, uh, medical treatments, drugs themselves that extend lifespan and health span. And they've become a really big player because honestly, there aren't that many foundations that are willing to spend the kind of money on this kind of research that is very long term and we don't know where it's going to lead. So they became a really big player. And so, yeah, one of the articles that I wrote, and we didn't talk about it much on the podcast, is uh is Saudi Arabia.

Jo Fahy 15:26

And why do you think they specifically became involved in this field?

Why Big Pharma Hesitates

Jessica Davis Plüss 15:31

It's interesting. The more people I spoke to, some of it, of course, is the wealth, you know, and people interest in and spending on this, but I think um one of the things that was mentioned to me is just COVID. COVID was um a realization for a lot of people, one, how important health is, um, and two, that the countries who are leading in this area, meaning that investing in health is not only good for the population in terms of having a healthier population, but it also creates a lot of jobs. Um, it creates a lot of jobs and it creates a lot of um well-paid jobs, and you create technology that benefits your country, could benefit the world, and that reputational value is also really important. So I think there's there's a combination of factors. Um, and also, I mean, just recently read more articles about China also getting into this space. So it's uh I think it's a space where traditional pharmaceutical companies haven't been in as much, and it's almost like a gap that needs to be filled, and some of these countries are interested to fill it.

Jo Fahy 16:37

Yeah. And it does seem almost like a kind of obvious area for growth for pharmaceutical companies. But as you said, there aren't so many pharma companies that have stepped into this space. Why do you think that is? Why haven't they taken advantage of this opportunity? I guess if you want to call it that.

Jessica Davis Plüss 16:54

It's funny because at first I thought this seems like such a moneymaker. I don't understand why pharmaceutical companies wouldn't be in this. I mean, we've all been searching for that magic um, you know, pill, you know, immortality. Um, it seems that pharmaceutical companies would want to be in this space and develop something that honestly we see with obesity and with you know certain areas that many people thought, no, no, no, no one's gonna be interested in this, no one's gonna buy a drug for that. And now we see people are. And with longevity, I I I thought that this would be an area that pharmaceutical companies would want to be in. But there are quite a few factors and reasons why they're not in it. Um, and one is some have tried and they realize it's really complex and it's really difficult. The science of aging and trying to figure it out and what do you target, um, you know, since there's so many complex processes. I mean, I talked about these 12, I think, hallmarks of aging, but it's also the interactions between them. What exactly do you tackle if you're a drug company? But on top of this, longevity or aging, I should say, isn't a disease. And so when you are developing a drug and you want to get it approved, let's say Swiss Medic or the US Food and Drug Administration, they are specifically looking at treatments for a disease. And when aging isn't a disease, you're spending billions to develop a drug and it might never get approved. So I think that that is um that is a an important factor and probably one thing that has kept some of these companies away. But I did find, and I did research, for example, the Swiss pharma giant Novartis, which is doing more research in this space, that they are realizing that by understanding aging, they can understand the root causes of age-related diseases, like Alzheimer's, for example, or even some cancers. If they can understand how aging and some of these maybe hallmarks or other factors are driving age-related diseases, then maybe they can tackle the root cause instead of tackling the symptoms. So I think there is growing interest, and of course, AI gathering more data is going to help them understand all of this biology much better. So yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if uh pharmaceutical companies start talking about it. But there is also, because of all of the hype, there is a caution and a concern that um they'll fall into this and things will be hyped up when they're not ready to be hyped up. And so I think companies, they really want to focus on science and evidence, and that's really important. And it's it's difficult when everything is, you know, on social media and people are um are more focused on the hype than the than science sometimes.

Personal Lessons And Daily Habits

Jo Fahy 19:41

So it's almost like it's a little bit too soon for the pharmaceutical companies to jump in there and start investing in some kind of drug for aging, because as you said, and I think that was a really good thing to say, you know, aging is not a disease. So what do we need a drug for? Anyway, I think it's all about the healthy aging. That was something uh really interesting that we we talked about in our last season. Um, while you were doing this, Jessica, you found out so many things, which we've already talked about in this bonus episode, about living longer and living better, preventative medicine as well. I would be very interested to know if it had any impact on you personally.

Jessica Davis Plüss 20:17

You know, I talked about this in one of the podcast episodes, this entire series that I did on longevity and the research, it did have an impact on me in terms of how I view the aging process. And I honestly I notice things about myself as I'm getting older. I say, you know, there's a reason that this is happening to me. Um, and it goes back to the cellular level. It's not just uh because um, you know, because I'm a certain age that this is gonna happen to me. It's actually something really at the cellular level, you know. So what One of it is just this respect for the aging process, and then it happens to everyone, it happens in different ways. So I think I what I realized is that the area where there's the most evidence of benefits is in exercise and sport. And it sounds so, as one of the people I interviewed said, pedestrian. But the fact is that we often forget about it, especially in our job where we're often sitting the whole time. And sport and being active, even if it's just walking, is extremely important. And people kept talking about frailty and grip strength and these kinds of things that, you know, falling is one of the biggest dangers for people as they get older. And so I think that sport, exercise is extremely important for many different organs, and um it has been proven to extend health span and lifespan. It seems kind of obvious, but we don't really take it seriously. I think I'm also a person who doesn't really jump into supplements or some of these crazes. I like to have one more evidence that it's specifically good for me. But I think what has come out of this longevity is how important it is to measure things. And unfortunately, we don't do enough of it. I mean, some people are wearing, you know, uh a smartwatch or different things in.

Jo Fahy 22:11

I've got one on right now.

Jessica Davis Plüss 22:12

Yeah.

Jo Fahy 22:13

I'll need to stand up in a minute.

Measurement, Wearables, And Personalisation

Jessica Davis Plüss 22:14

Yeah. Exactly. That are very good, you know, measuring your heart rate and these kinds of things. But they're also things like measuring your hormone levels or um, you know, measuring the amount, for example, I found out that I had not enough B12, which is really important and something that's a problem as you as you grow older, and it can affect your memory, it can affect um, you know, cognitive abilities, but it can also have other physical dimensions to it. And I think for me, I think this measurement part has become much more important, and the longevity field and discussions have really helped drive that. And I think the more we measure, the more we'll understand. But I think that's, you know, it does become much more personalized medicine. And I think that's probably, you know, where we're gonna get the most benefit, and where I think I would get the most benefit is by looking at my personal needs and my personal aging, you know, trajectory or process.

Jo Fahy 23:11

I think this is really interesting, this idea of you know how much should you analyze yourself and analyze your body? Because, you know, at the one end you've got these, let's face it, expensive for most people clinics that are offering personalized medicine and they can examine every aspect of your body and maybe find out problems that you didn't even know you had yet. And then at the other end, there's people saying, you know, you just need to go out for a regular walk and get some exercise and eat a balanced diet and you're gonna be fine. Um, where do you think this whole field of longevity is going? Are we coming to a point where we know there's a kind of concrete future and science is going to be focusing on that specifically, or is it still wide open at the moment?

Where Longevity Science Is Heading

Closing And What’s Next

Jessica Davis Plüss 23:51

I think it is going to become a more credible scientific area. Michael Hall, one of the people I interviewed, this scientist, he was saying, you know, when he was looking into this, you know, decades ago, um, you know, it was a lot of wackos at these longevity conferences, you know, or these kinds of um aging conferences, and it really has changed. It's it's really strong scientists. Of course, you always have people who are peddling or kind of trying to sell you something, some kind of magic pill with very little evidence. But there are really credible scientists. There's more credible science, but it's a very complex process. So I think there is going to be more emphasis on longevity medicine as a specialty. There's going to be more emphasis on clinical trials and trying to actually generate real evidence of treatments. And I also think, you know, some other areas such as Alzheimer's, where there are treatments company, or an obesity, which is a huge factor and driver for diabetes and also a lot of age-related conditions, I think that those are also opening people's minds, scientists' minds, drug makers' minds, um, to really think about aging and its intersection with all of these kinds of uh diseases where honestly the pharmaceutical companies can make money. Um and so um I think, yeah, I think it's going to be really exciting. And as you know, you were saying, the measurement you might not want to measure, but I think the fact that we can get so much data and we can do something with it is going to become very uh very valuable and and hopefully uh bring the field forward.

Jo Fahy 25:31

Very exciting stuff. Thank you so much for talking to me today, Jessica. And if you're listening to this special bonus episode and you've heard something that has piqued your interest, you can scroll back in your podcast feed and you'll find episodes about lots and lots of different topics connected to longevity and living healthier and longer. Thanks. So before we go on to our new season of the Swiss Connection Science Podcast, coming soon we have a special second bonus episode. It's all about the big topics and trends that we see coming in 2026 for the pharmaceuticals industry. Today's episode was recorded and edited by our science and video journalist Michaeli Andina. For more content, visit our website, Swisinfo.ch. I'm Joe Fay. Thanks for listening.