Adapting to Change: A Deep Dive into the Evolving Wedding Photography Industry

Long-time friend and acclaimed wedding photographer, Brian Callaway, joins me for a heartfelt stroll down memory lane. We reminisce about our kids growing up and our evolving businesses while focusing a lens on the wedding photography industry in the age of COVID-19. Brian and his wife Allison have reshaped their focus from being contest winners to prioritizing their clients and family. It's an eye-opening discussion that sheds light on the personal and professional shifts that many of us have been forced to make during these challenging times.

New priorities emerge in this post-pandemic world, and as parents, we've had to be agile and adaptive. We discover how having teenagers has not only brought us joy but also presented new revenue streams. Let's delve into the world of technology and services like Photoday and Got Photo that ease our tasks. We also talk about the high school senior market—a gold mine of potentials that is yet to be fully tapped. 

Our occupations, albeit fulfilling, can demand a toll on our bodies. I discuss my battle with knee and neck injuries, a familiar narrative among our peers like Chrissy Odom and Cliff Mauntner. The wedding industry has been hit hard by the pandemic, and the luxury market, our saving grace, has also felt the tremors. But, we aren't backing down just yet. We bring you strategies to attract new clients, the potential of creating a 'power deck' to engage luxury planners, and even a detour into the bustling world of TikTok. Despite the challenges that come with navigating social media platforms, we believe in authenticity and remaining true to who we are. 

Get ready for a journey filled with laughter, life lessons, and a whole lot of learnings about the changing face of the wedding photography industry. Listen, learn, and let's adapt together to this ever-changing world.

https://callawaygable.com/

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:01

Hey there, thanks for tuning in to Something New Every Week with your host, me, jason Group. Each week I'm going to give you something new that's happening in our photographic world just some great conversations with my friends and what's going on right now. Something New Every Week is sponsored by Miller's Lab. Miller's Professional Imaging is the largest professional lab organization in the United States. They provide professional prints and press products for professional photographers in all 50 states and Canada, and they're just a great company. If you don't know them, go check them out, millerslabcom. Alright, welcome back to another episode of Something New Every Week. This one's a super super duper. Something new for me because Brian and I have not talked, spoken, and in so long. So today I'm here with Brian Calloway, los Angeles based wedding photographer, with his wife Allison. Brian say hello, good to see you.

Speaker 2: 0:59

Hi, great to see you. It's been a decade.

Speaker 1: 1:06

Yeah, it might be, a decade.

Speaker 2: 1:08

I think when I first met you, our kids were babies, and now they're in high school. So there you go Right.

Speaker 1: 1:17

That definitely puts everything in perspective. So quick intro on Brian. Brian and his wife Allison started a wedding photography studio many, many, many years ago. They are super duper talented people and really fun people to be around. They've won countless awards with Fearless and ISPWP and they've been top 10 Fearless photographers and just super duper emotional photojournalistic type photographers. They've been involved with SLR Lounge and if you're not familiar with their work, we'll put a link to their website in the show notes and you definitely got to check them out, but definitely had a lot of fun. I haven't seen them at the last few WPPIs, probably because they're raising their family, like me, and they both have kids that are almost exactly the same age as of are. So we were just laughing that we're both getting kids in high school and we're pretty stoked. So welcome to the show.

Speaker 2: 2:22

Brian, thank you. Thank you for having me. Yeah, we haven't been to WPPI. We don't really submit to contests anymore because the kids take up so much time. It's just a full time job with the kids in the business. So we pretty much just take care of our clients and that's about as much as we can do with the business.

Speaker 1: 2:45

Yeah, and I feel like the teenagers. One of an old photography mentor of mine, when we first had Phoebe and we were just overwhelmed with being parents, I said to him gosh, does it get any better? It sucks right now. Phoebe was very colicky that's a real word anymore and just was a tough baby and I said no, no, it doesn't get any better, it just gets different.

Speaker 2: 3:14

Yeah, it gets different and it's so interesting. You said that Abby had a colleague for a full year. She literally cried all day and all night for a full year.

Speaker 1: 3:23

Yeah, that's pretty much where we were at and she still is at 15. It's the same thing. It's the same personality. I am amazed with the personality is the same when they're one month old as they are to being 16 years old. It's just a little more vocal and I've been saying that they're a little more fun now because they understand your jokes even though they don't like them, and they're a little more fun in the sense that they're. My daughter just started driving, so we've barely seen her this summer. Wow.

Speaker 2: 4:00

Yeah, we're studying for the driving test right now.

Speaker 1: 4:04

Ah yeah, they can get their permanent at 15 here in Missouri and yeah.

Speaker 2: 4:10

We go to Missouri once a year. We go to Kansas City for a volleyball tournament.

Speaker 1: 4:14

That's right. That's right. I've been seeing you, you've been doing that, so your daughter is very. Are they both involved in volleyball?

Speaker 2: 4:20

Yeah, they're both involved in volleyball.

Speaker 1: 4:22

Okay.

Speaker 2: 4:22

Abby is on track for D1 school.

Speaker 1: 4:26

Nice.

Speaker 2: 4:26

So a lot of interest.

Speaker 1: 4:28

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 4:29

And so that's our full-time job. Besides this is we do about 12 travel tournaments a year, wow, and we try to juggle that with weddings, which is really hard.

Speaker 1: 4:39

So yeah, that's a big tournament. I know the volleyball tournament you're talking about in Kansas City. They do that one in KC and then in India, I think is the other big one. Yeah, and maybe one of these years I'll meet you up there with Jason Dominguez and we'll go out for some drinks In fact, I was supposed to hang out with Jason last time, but the schedule just gets out of control.

Speaker 2: 5:02

It's so hard to meet people because you have no idea if they win, then you gotta stay and blah, blah, blah. But anyway, photography.

Speaker 1: 5:09

Photography. Yeah, so you guys have been in business, I think, about at least 15 years. Is that what you're talking about, ryan?

Speaker 2: 5:16

I had been making a living as a photographer for over 20 years. Callie Gable has been probably. I mean in the C17 years we were shooting weddings before she was pregnant with Abby and then while she was pregnant with Abby. Yeah, so sometimes so let me get a.

Speaker 1: 5:38

Yeah, I have a couple of questions for you on weddings in general. So my first question is and I have an interview to a wedding photographer in a while, and I think the last LA photographer is Michael Anthony that I interviewed it's been a while, I think it was during the pandemic, so talk me through. Well, let's start, let's work backwards. So how are things now? I mean, I'm hearing a lot of gripes on the West Coast that this is a shitty year and bookings are down and things are a little different.

Speaker 2: 6:08

What's your take? Yeah, I certainly think that since the pandemic, the industry has changed. For sure, yeah, we were literally having the best year of our career and then, all of a sudden, overnight, it stopped because of COVID. And then since that time, okay, so for us, our business, our bread and butter, was 70% of our work. We traveled around the country Mexico, Hawaii and so we developed relationships at the four, like the four seasons Hawaii like.

Speaker 2: 6:40

Mexico, like all these places, and when COVID happened, all of those people left, oh gosh, and so. And then a lot of the planners which is where we get a lot of our leads a lot of the planners also retired or their business changed, and so we lost a lot of that potential, that lead stream as well. And then the other thing that happened, I think, is, once everything came back on board, venues at least on the West Coast venues started charging probably 30, 40% more because they could, which left a lot less on the table for everybody else. So we've suffered a little bit that way as well.

Speaker 1: 7:20

And that's interesting, you're the first person that has talked about like the contacts and the especially on the luxury end, the higher end wedding photography business. It's all relationship based. Those referrals are coming from the wedding planners, they're coming from the vendors that you're working with, like bands and florists, and those are golden leads. And when gosh, I can't imagine when. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 7:48

So the people don't know. Our client tells a luxury client we service the high end luxury market. All of the leads came from planners or past clients. Generally with past clients, though, we usually got the most expensive person in the group, so usually the referrals wouldn't work out because it couldn't afford us.

Speaker 1: 8:07

Right.

Speaker 2: 8:09

So yeah, once COVID happened, we lost all of those relationships. A lot of those luxury planners went out of business or they just don't have the volume they had. And I think also the wedding industry has changed a little bit. Maybe you have your, maybe you know a little bit more about this, but I feel like luxury weddings aren't as popular right now, at least this year. Maybe once things politically and in recession and all that figure themselves out, maybe we'll be back on board with luxury weddings.

Speaker 1: 8:40

But yeah, and that's actually one of the other questions that I wanted to ask you, because you know my straw poll, which is just me talking to my friends, facebook messenger or whatever is that. And that's an interesting observation that the luxury weddings in general and I had made this comparison to somebody recently, like after the housing market crash in 2008 for me, where I had people writing checks, like the dads would come to the meetings and be like writing me checks out a HELOC account because the money was so cheap, right, and it was just easy for them to do that. And the housing market crash and that free money just kind of dried up, and then it was also kind of garish to be throwing these ridiculous weddings and some of them were ridiculous. I know, you know what I'm talking about. It was just not cool to do that. And I'm hearing the same thing right now because of what we're thinking is a pending recession, or maybe there's some of that from 2008 as well, from older people.

Speaker 2: 9:47

So that's yeah. I think people's priorities shifted after COVID as well. I don't need to spend this much money on linens and things that are gonna mean nothing to me in 15 years, so I think that shifted as well.

Speaker 1: 10:02

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 10:03

That being said, I mean we just hustle. I mean, one of the nice things about serving the luxury market is, you know, these are clients that come back and back and back and back. So we do a lot of, you know, family photography, birthday photography, and they spend the same amount on that stuff as they do on weddings. So that's saved us.

Speaker 1: 10:25

Right, and that's the advantage of having great clients that you've served well and now you could reach out to them for hey in this and that, like yourself and having teenagers, there's probably access to a lot of different families as well, where I've started shooting a lot more high school seniors because I can reach that audience now.

Speaker 2: 10:48

This is so interesting. You bring that up right. So you know we talk, allison, I talk so much about like are we just not relevant anymore, because now we're the old people and the brides are the same age. You know, because we have slowed down. We haven't slowed down to where we're being scared, but we've slowed down a little bit. But I think I attribute that more to just being busy with the kids and not like on Instagram and TikTok all day. I feel like we have slowed down just because we haven't been able to put as much attention as I used to.

Speaker 2: 11:19

That being said, as we've gotten older, I've noticed all of these potential revenue streams that you know, 10 years ago I never would have thought about doing. For example, we did at our kids' grade school. Someone said can you do the school photos? And we're like oh my gosh, why would you not? Okay, maybe you should. I had no idea how lucrative school photos were. I mean to the point where we're like I wanna pursue this full time because where we live, I feel like we could dominate the market and again, it's very lucrative. I had no idea. I had no idea.

Speaker 1: 12:00

And again, not having kids in school. You would have never known that. And I started doing it kind of during the pandemic with my kids' football team Nobody, they weren't talking about pictures. And I said I'll do them Like I'll upload them to galleries and you guys can buy the pictures and it's totally free, whatever. So they were stoked and I just knocked it out. I'd make these composites because we weren't even allowed to go any place to really shoot it. So I made these composites and blew them away and I wound up making so much money and during the pandemic that was very welcome to have that income.

Speaker 1: 12:37

But then I started reaching out to different sports leagues and stuff like that and I was like goddamn, this is really like I can make a lot of money doing this and it's been interesting. I started doing all of our high school senior banners for the sports and the band and the marching band here to like. Give you an example it's like 450 kids in the marching band but the seniors, but in the marching band seniors, it's 100 kids. So it's turned out to be a very, very different business. But and let me ask you this I personally feel like because of some of the technologies and companies out there that serve the technology is easier to do this kind of work, so I've been using Photo Day and not plugging them at all. But I've been using Photo Day and not having to use QR codes and stuff like that has made it much easier for me to do it. Otherwise, I never would have taken it.

Speaker 2: 13:34

I'll look into that. We use Got Photo.

Speaker 1: 13:36

Yeah, got Photo is really great too and a super easy system too. The main difference between the two is that Got Photo uses the QR codes and the Photo Day uses face technology. So, like when I check the kids in, I don't need I need to know who the kids are and I have a spreadsheet and I upload that to the site. So that's super easy. But then I use my iPhone and there's an app and I checked them and I asked them their name, I searched their name and then I take a picture of them and that checks them in and then when I upload their photos, it uses AI technology to match your photos to put it in the gallery.

Speaker 2: 14:11

Oh, that's awesome.

Speaker 1: 14:12

It's amazing.

Speaker 2: 14:13

And then somewhere. Can you hold that up? Can you get your hand off the? Yeah, there you go.

Speaker 1: 14:17

No, no it just automatically chooses them and the only time it fails is if the kid blinks or wearing sunglasses or something stupid like that. That's my fault. Other than that it's a completely flawless system. So I do think that that part is, and also the high school senior market. Here I'm curious like LA. I've heard it's growing, but it was never a market for it in New York.

Speaker 2: 14:45

Yeah, there's not a market here either. There's not the traditional senior photos where the kids in the middle of the stadium and there's smoke behind them and that kind of photo, but there's definitely a market for beautiful photographs of their kids. So it's so funny you mention all this because we're gonna explore all this. We have the next month off, so we're gonna explore, like we're gonna go into the kids' gym and start taking badass photos of our kids, and then the gym owners, like you know, that's I don't know how many kids 2000 kids at the volleyball there and so they've said, hey, you can go through all the kids and do that if you want so, and then that just leads to family photography, that leads to end of the year photography, and for us it's a no-brainer. Why not follow that revenue, why not?

Speaker 1: 15:39

No, I know, and for me I stopped shooting weddings over 10 years ago at this point, and I know as I get older I struggle with reaching that audience. And then how do I stay relevant in that audience and stuff like that and not to put you on the spot? But I'm curious and you're a little younger than me but you know, is there anything that you do as far as trying to stay relevant to a younger audience or as an older photographer in the wedding business?

Speaker 2: 16:19

So, as always, our clients have always found us. So we've done very little. We don't pay for marketing. It all comes from, like I said earlier, from planners. If they don't come from planners, they've found us. And our formula is super simple and it hasn't changed we just focus on the moments and we create out of control, beautiful, alive, enthusiastic portraits. So, and also, we're known for being able to shoot in dark venues. So in the beginning we grew our business because we were the only ones that could shoot ballrooms in nighttime, weddings, et cetera. So and we still get business from that too we get all the challenging venues usually come to us first.

Speaker 1: 17:06

And then you know it's so funny when you say that because I'm finding that, you know, as the camera systems get better and easier to shoot in lower light situations, I'm finding less and less people are learning how to actually shoot in anything other than available light. And part of my job in working with the Orion Photo Group, which is a nationwide wedding photography company, is interviewing some of these photographers sometimes and not to kind of put them on the spot, but some of the younger photographers. When I asked them about what do you do for lighting, what do you do for you know dark venues, and they say, oh well, I just turned the ISO up and I'm like, oh gosh, well, what does that light look like? And I can see it in their portfolios. But they're not learning it and that's really interesting. You know that your expertise in you know darker venues. The ironic part is that your venues, even though they're dark, are probably lit a lot better than some of the lower end venues, right?

Speaker 2: 18:14

Well, I don't know, I think it's all the same. We don't rely on any of the light that is in the venue, right, so we bring all of our own light. We use a combination of video light and flash photography. Yeah, but yeah. I mean, every time we book a wedding, the planner says, oh, we're going to have a light on them 1,000% of the time we walk into the ceremony and the light on them is not sufficient, so we have to light them ourselves.

Speaker 1: 18:39

And there's a lot of people walking into the venue just trying to figure it out, with maybe some on camera flash and stuff like that. So the fact that you've been able to you know kind of you know hold your career on stuff like that and you're shooting big weddings too Like I'm looking at your galleries you shoot a lot of Indian weddings and ethnic weddings as well. So there's tons and tons of people at these places like that and shooting at the Four Seasons is not. You know, I personally found that the nicer the venue, the worse you were treated and the harder you had to work to get the stuff that you needed to do.

Speaker 2: 19:18

And the worst vendor meal.

Speaker 1: 19:21

And the worst vendor meal. It's unbelievable that you can go to the Four Seasons and be served a turkey sandwich.

Speaker 2: 19:28

I know, isn't it hilarious? It's still to this time and we have it in our contract, so we have to have a guest meal. But we always remind people but we never get it.

Speaker 1: 19:37

Right, and I think that's an interesting point too, where, like, I hear people online like saying well, I put it in my contract that I get a hot meal, and it's HOT in capital letters. What are you going to do? Go to that person during their wedding that they've spent a million dollars on and then complain about getting a hot meal? You can't do it. You can't do it. It's not professional. So you try and deal with the venue, you ask nicely, but at the end of the day, like you know, it is what it is right.

Speaker 2: 20:09

Hot tip Just tell them you're vegan and they always make you fresh food.

Speaker 1: 20:13

That is actually a good point. And my assistant, who was vegan you always get these nice hot meals and I'd be like this is not fair she's like well, I just eat more vegetables, I like it.

Speaker 2: 20:27

It's a beautiful vegan meal and Ali's got this like rusty piece of meat that's been sitting there, not Bye.

Speaker 1: 20:35

All right, I'm gonna switch gears a little bit. You are running. Let's talk about exercise and running and getting older a little bit. I see you. I follow you on Strava. I see some of your runs. How is the running going?

Speaker 2: 20:49

So interesting you brought that up. I'm actually going in right after we got the phone to see what the results are my MRI on my left knee oh no, yeah, so that's great you brought that up. I mean, we've been doing this for 15, 16 years. I just had knee surgery on my right meniscus.

Speaker 1: 21:09

Oh, wow, I didn't know that Escus.

Speaker 2: 21:11

Yeah, and my left is also torn and the doctor is like it's not from running Interesting.

Speaker 1: 21:18

It's from your job.

Speaker 2: 21:20

It's from your job, it's from kneeling, squatting gear in your back, et cetera. So walking up and down stairs, jumping off things and Allison, I talk about all the time like there's gotta be a way to do this job and not do that, but it's impossible.

Speaker 1: 21:37

No.

Speaker 2: 21:38

I mean, you're tall because you have to shoot people in a dominant point of view. When it's like family photos or a power couple shot, right, you gotta be below their eye line, you know also just creating different perspectives, et cetera. So over the 15, 16 years that's actually destroyed my knees, and I'm not the only one. I have to actually talk to a few other people, like Chrissy Odom, who's starting to have knee issues as well, so it's just something to be aware of for the younger people out there.

Speaker 1: 22:04

Yeah, I know I talk to Cliff Mountner every now and again and he's like yeah, I'm going back in for more knee surgery or hip surgery or something like that. And you know, as Ben Ben Crispin used to always say, like if you don't come home filthy and disgusting because you're crawling around on the ground all day, you didn't do your job right. So you know, and that's the reason, and even you know, when I go out and shoot now I come home with all the exercise and yoga that I do, like I have a pinched nerve in my neck and after every shoot I can barely move my neck. And you know, of course, my kids love to make fun of me. They're super empathetic.

Speaker 2: 22:42

Yeah, they have your.

Speaker 1: 22:44

Yeah, all right. One last question that we're going to wrap up. So you know you got through the pandemic, which is awesome, and you know so many of our friends kind of pack things in, so congratulations on that. I've been hearing again and reading some articles that this lull that we're in right now is a bubble. It's all the weddings that were made up from after the pandemic. That's over and now we're into only people getting engaged. The people getting married now are only people getting engaged have gotten engaged post pandemic, so there's less of them and there's also a nationwide decline in people getting married in general. But I think that's a bullshit thing. Yeah, what is your prediction? Do we see the lull? Do you think it's a lull, is my first question. And do we see, you know, as the economy starts to? I think the economy is going to get better Inflation it seems to be gotten a hold of and things are going to get better. But what are your thoughts?

Speaker 2: 23:47

Well, I think the GDP number came out today, right. It, did it came out super positive.

Speaker 1: 23:51

It did.

Speaker 2: 23:52

So I think that, and I think Morgan Stanley or somebody rated said that the recession is not going to happen, correct, I'm not sure he said that, but man, I wish I knew. I wish I knew what's going to happen. It feels like things are changing a little bit right now. We've been leads of coming in a little bit more and I feel like it's going to be over. But, gosh, I wish I had a better handle on that. I just don't know.

Speaker 2: 24:15

I mean it has to. I've always said this business is like recession proof. It wasn't pandemic proof, but because people get married and they want photos, right. So I feel like it has to turn around.

Speaker 1: 24:33

I definitely want to be positive about it. I agree with you, I definitely think that things are going to turn around. But I feel like this is another one of those corrections that kind of weeds out our industry a little bit and then the people that survive are the benefactors of that and know how to survive in that. So one last follow-up question on that Regarding I know that you and Allison are very much people, people, people. So I think I know what the answer is. But is there anything you've done differently for marketing and reaching those planners again and reaching those new people?

Speaker 2: 25:12

Yeah, again, we don't do any of that, but I have thought about doing something I call the power deck, and the power deck is something I'm going to do with some of the luxury planners that we haven't worked with yet and that's just making a really tight seven page PDF of all of our detail shots and all of our portraits and just something that's sort of like wows them to get into their door. Otherwise, we're going to try to pick up TikTok. I've been trying to get the kids to go to the weddings to do the TikTok for it.

Speaker 1: 25:44

I definitely want to talk about that. Okay, go ahead. I'm sorry.

Speaker 2: 25:46

Yeah, and I've tried to. I feel like my parents now when they first had a computer, like I'm like, how does this thing work? No idea how it works and they're just all, they're fast with it.

Speaker 1: 25:59

And it's not like you're not, I'm still here. It's not like you were not kind of a hit person. You know we've gotten through this whole interview. You're like you've been in TV commercials. You've been on TV I heard like one of the like the most popular Super Bowl commercials on the planet and all of a sudden you've got this and you're good on social media and then all of a sudden this thing, tiktok, comes along and you're like, oh my God, I had a promise my daughter I would not post on TikTok. She was so like cringy, like worried about me embarrassing myself and it's only recently that I'm like what?

Speaker 2: 26:32

Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1: 26:33

Yeah, they don't. They don't want you to embarrass yourself and I'm like but with the high school senior stuff and marketing myself and placing ads and stuff like that, I'm like they, the only place that is worth anything is TikTok. So I've started diving into it and it's interesting that you said that you're going to bring your kids to it, because I think it's actually an awesome idea because they'll know what to do. But it is, it is, it's a challenge, right.

Speaker 2: 26:59

Yeah, it's a huge challenge. I mean, I have so many ideas on the, on the TikTok. It's just that I feel like I come to the game so late. It's like I don't want to be like hey guys, here we are. I'm in the car on the way to Malibu. That's the cards backed up. I'm ready to rock and roll. Guys, peace out. I don't, I can't do that. So I don't know how to like get into it with my humor and my style, and the only thing I can think of is like hiring somebody just to follow me around the camera so that I can just like take a picture and then look at it and go huh or, do you know, just make jokes while I'm working. I think that would be funny.

Speaker 1: 27:45

I totally agree with you and I think that in in you know just two or three months that I've been kind of playing around with it. I'm discovering that you know, just like all social media, you kind of got to be yourself and it'll resonate. And you do. You can't try and be a 16 year old girl, Just dance, that's going to fail.

Speaker 2: 28:11

My wife just off to the side just go, but you kind of are like a 60 year old.

Speaker 1: 28:17

No, no, you're right, allison, you're absolutely right, 100%.

Speaker 2: 28:21

By the way. By the way, I am in my kids' TikToks. All their Hall of Her Friends go. Your dad is so cool, so I have to say that, like that's a good thing, I think.

Speaker 1: 28:31

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but I truly believe that, like you know, metabusiness Suite is over and I don't know what they're going to do to get it back, but they're not reaching the audience.

Speaker 2: 28:42

So Like Graham and Facebook. Yeah, I think Facebook is dead.

Speaker 1: 28:47

Facebook is completely dead, especially for the high school senior market. Like, the parents aren't even on Facebook. Like they're younger than me and they're not even like I asked them. Are you, are you able to? Can I get you on Facebook? And they're like, I probably won't answer you.

Speaker 2: 29:01

What are they?

Speaker 1: 29:02

using. They're on Instagram and TikTok.

Speaker 2: 29:06

I mean I look at TikTok way more than Instagram or anything. That is yeah, it's just more entertaining.

Speaker 1: 29:13

It is, and you know you can scroll through things much quicker. So maybe we'll meet up again and see how that's going. But I definitely think, like you know, as far as reaching audiences on social media, that's really it, and if you do hit it right, you're just reaching so many people. The engagement is just so much higher. But anyway, anyway, it's great to catch up with you, you as well. Yeah, thank you for coming on this week and you know. Good luck out there and thanks for being on something new every week.

Speaker 2: 29:45

Thank you for having me, and I'd love to talk to you off camera later about your transition too, or maybe we can do another session about that, because I feel like we're in the same path.

Speaker 1: 29:54

Yeah, so don't go away. We're going to hang up and then we'll talk a little bit more now. So You've got me.

Speaker 2: 30:00

Yes.

Speaker 1: 30:01

You're welcome. Thank you All right, that's it for this week's episode of Something New Every Week. If you'd like to be on something new every week, we'd love to have you. Please reach out to me. I'm not hard to find. I'm not even going to talk about it, just reach out. I want to hear your story. It's a very casual conversation and we'll catch you on next week's episode. Take care, everyone. Thanks again for tuning into Something New Every Week. I hope you enjoyed this episode and if you do enjoy these episodes, I love it if you hit that subscribe button on. However, you're listening to this Again. We want to thank our sponsor, miller's Lab, miller's Labcom Great company. If you're not familiar with them, you should go check them out. Thanks again for tuning into Something New Every Week. We will see you back here next week.