From Middle Mile to high stakes in the High Court: MCNC's leadership tackles connectivity in a unique way

On this episode of Connected Nation, we continue our coverage from the Broadband Community Summit, and we talk with the president and CEO of MCNC, about its role connecting schools and healthcare facilities across North Carolina.

We also talk about the importance of middle mile infrastructure and the high stakes of an upcoming court decision.

Recommended Links: 

• Microelectronics Center of North Carolina (MCNC) website
• Podcast: High Stakes in the High Court as Nation Awaits USF Decision
• Tracy Doaks LinkedIn

Transcript

Jessica Denson, Connected Nation  (00:05):
This is Connected Nation, an award-winning podcast focused on all things broadband from closing the digital divide to improving your internet speeds. We talk technology topics that impact all of us, our families, and our neighborhoods. On this episode, we continue our coverage from the Broadband Community Summit, and we talk with the president and CEO of MCNC, about its role connecting schools and healthcare facilities across North Carolina. Also about the importance of middle mile infrastructure and the high stakes of an upcoming court decision. I'm Jessica Desen, and this is Connected Nation. I'm now standing with Tracy Ds, who kindly waited to the side while we, I interviewed Greg Conte with the Texas State Broadband Office. Tracy is the president and CEO of MCNC. Um, uh, full disclosure, we started this interview and I had little technical problems. So she is the most patient, <laugh>. My MVP of all my interviews is Tracy dos. I just have to tell you that. Thank you very much. If I applause everyone, absolutely. Thank you. And if that's what it takes, then I'll take that. Oh, I really, I just wanna, I wanna acknowledge and appreciate that. Um, I'm by myself out here in the field, and so I appreciate you starting over. Um, we had such great conversations, so let's try to replicate with some of the, what we talked about. Yeah. I'd like to start with, tell us about MCNC and its 

Tracy Doaks, MCNC (01:32):
Mission. Yeah. So MCNC has been around for 45 years. This is our 45th year, actually, so it's our anniversary this year. And it, although it started as a super computing center in North Carolina in the eighties, um, now it is known for its network. So it's research and education network. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. That runs about, um, 4,500 miles of fiber infrastructure across the state of North Carolina. Um, mainly supporting education like K through 12, um, community colleges, higher ed, including public and independent. And we also run the telehealth network for North Carolina. And our role is to provide connectivity and technology services to assist our communities in, um, uh, in participating in the digital economy. So it's not just that education community, but those who are being educated. So it's not just the health providers for healthcare, but it's also the patients need those being served to, 

Jessica Denson, Connected Nation  (02:44):
Right. 

Tracy Doaks, MCNC (02:44):
Those who are being served. And so there's really important for us, we also provide cybersecurity, other technology services that sit on top of our network mm-hmm <affirmative>. What we call protected connectivity. So it's not just to be connected. It, it doesn't help. Right. Especially 

Jessica Denson, Connected Nation (03:03):
Now, 

Tracy Doaks, MCNC (03:04):
Nowadays. 

Jessica Denson (03:04):
Right. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. It's a very, very sensitive time. So, mc nc, tell me what it stands for again and talk about their supercomputer days that, that launch the company. 

Tracy Doaks (03:15):
So, mc, NC C is mm-hmm <affirmative>. Microelectronic Center of North Carolina <laugh>. I'll always have to pause and say I get it. I say that really slowly, <laugh>. Um, I've been at MCNC for five years, but I have worked with MCNC for many years as the state CIO for North Carolina, and the deputy state CIO for North Carolina. It started from a governor back then that wanted to build something in, um, an area called Research Triangle Park in North Carolina, uhhuh, which is pretty famous now for housing. Cisco, I, BM, a lot of the big companies, uhhuh. But initially it was created to draw some of those companies and, and the legislature. Um, it was a line item in the legislature, uhhuh, that funded MCNC. So it was supercomputing researchers that were, um, innovating and 

Jessica Denson (04:13):
Building. 

Tracy Doaks (04:13):
It was a really cool innovation hub there. Then it was, 

Jessica Denson (04:15):
Yeah, 

Tracy Doaks (04:16):
It was a really cool innovation hub. And, and now it's transformed into what it is today, which is a very extensive fiber network mm-hmm <affirmative>. That supports its communities. Yeah. And, um, you, you work with, um, universities, ca universities, all the smaller schools, uh, for, for North Carolina. Give us an idea of the layout. Is it, are there as small schools that, that serve just a couple hundred kids all the way up to big universities that are, you know, 25,000 and up and beyond? 

Tracy Doaks (04:49):
Absolutely. Uhhuh <affirmative>. Yeah. 

Jessica Denson (04:50):
Definitely. How do you, how do you, uh, handle that? How do you that the wide

Tracy Doaks (04:54):
Range <laugh>? Well, it's, we do a very good job, if I must say so myself mm-hmm <affirmative>. <laugh> in monitoring and analyzing the bandwidth needs of each of those groups, 

Jessica Denson (05:07):
Uhhuh. 

Tracy Doaks (05:08):
And so it's, it's really important that we do that. And, you know, for, uh, higher ed, we're talking about researchers that need connectivity, for example, for AI right now 

Jessica Denson (05:20):
Mm-hmm <affirmative>. 

Tracy Doaks (05:21):
Well, that's a different need than a K through 12 school who, you know, that that district that is just trying to service their students. They might have new technologies too, but they need, um, quick access to the internet so that they are able to teach kids in the manner that they need to mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so it's a wide range, but it's something that we're used to because we've been doing it for a long time mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so again, it's really based on our team's ability to analyze and research the needs of those communities and quickly, almost automatically, um, change and, uh, increase bandwidth when they need it. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And that's one of the benefits. 

Jessica Denson (06:05):
So like, when they're in school or when they're outta school or when, so how important, I wanna, I wanna touch on the healthcare stuff in a minute, but how important is it to have anchor institutions connected in different communities? Is that the place where it helps it, the idea of technology and connection spread through the community? 

Tracy Doaks (06:27):
It is 

Jessica Denson (06:28):
Uhhuh <affirmative>. 

Tracy Doaks (06:28):
It is. And in different, um, areas, community anchor institutions mean different things. 

(06:35)
Uhhuh. Right. And so in North Carolina, we view it as education. We view it as state government, um, public safety, um, healthcare. So there's lots of different components that make up, um, community anchor institutions. But here of late, we've been hearing more about fire stations mm-hmm <affirmative>. And other places that need to be connected. Of course, we connect libraries. Uh, I'd be remiss if I did not, uh, mention that as well. And those were really important institutions across the state. And when you think back on COVID, libraries were critical. Yeah. That's where people had to go to learn, even patients to get healthcare. And so that's why those anchor institutions are there for the community. But public education is, you know, educating our communities. And so they need to be there. And so our job is to connect them. And we are a private nonprofit, and so we're not making a profit, we're just covering costs. I 

Jessica Denson (07:40):
Was just gonna re reemphasize that, that you are a nonprofit is not a for-profit company, and you serve all of North Carolina. And you mentioned the schools, and we mentioned the libraries, but also talk about the telehealth 

Tracy Doaks (07:52):
Network. Yes. So the telehealth network, um, so North Carolina Telehealth Network Association mm-hmm <affirmative>. Is responsible for dealing with the subsidy piece of, um, of, of the equation, which includes USF uhhuh. Right. 

Jessica Denson (08:10):
Universal Service Fund, which has got some challenges right now, which we might find out this week, <laugh>. 

Tracy Doaks (08:14):
That's correct. 

Jessica Denson (08:15):
Right. Yeah. 

Tracy Doaks (08:15):
Yes. And I spend some time in Washington DC as has, uh, some of my staff advocating for USF funding for E-Rate for the schools, and, um, the healthcare connect mm-hmm <affirmative>. For those organizations. And so our role there is to connect, um, providers. You normally the rural healthcare providers mm-hmm <affirmative>. Across the state. Um, but you know, the interesting part, and I know we talked about this a little bit before, is, um, the broadband piece of the, uh, bead piece of this 

Jessica Denson (08:52):
Uhhuh 

Tracy Doaks (08:52):
Is what allows the recipients of the services that we provide mm-hmm <affirmative>. To engage and be a part of the digital economy. And that, that's a really big deal for us. 

Jessica Denson (09:04):
And in rural areas, there a, there's a lack of hospitals or specialists. So it's, I would say it's very, it's critical to have that connection for older people or for people who are dealing with specialty things that they might not be able to travel several hours to get to a, a specialist or a, a hospital or a, so, um, I just a point I wanna make <laugh> Oh, yes. About the importance of it. So in, in North Carolina, you said it's a telehealth network? Yes. So is that how all the hospitals are, are 

Tracy Doaks (09:33):
Connected? Yes. 

Jessica Denson (09:35):
And why is that? Is that a state thing or is it a, was it a, is that also a private organization? 

Tracy Doaks (09:40):
Uh, the North Carolina Telehealth Network Association is also a private nonprofit. Gotcha. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And you guys work together then on this? We do. We work together. Now, we are no longer a line item in the legislature. We are fee for service organization, as are they, but they do rely on USF to subsidize those services that they use that are ours. 

Jessica Denson (10:05):
Yeah. I talked to the head of Shelby Coalition earlier, and he was talking about how this is a critical time and how important it is to have these organizations, this U-C-U-S-F, um, continue <laugh> to fund this type of thing. Yeah. 

Tracy Doaks (10:19):
Yes. Yes. 100%. And if it doesn't, it will be detrimental. And that why the advocacy in Washington DC is important. So if this court case mm-hmm <affirmative>. Does not go our way, meaning the collective our way, uhhuh <affirmative>, um, we'll have to figure out what happens next, what's the gap funding between, you know, now and when that gets figured out. So there's, there's a lot to determine, um, if this doesn't go our way. 

Jessica Denson (10:49):
Now, earlier in our, in our practice interview is what I'm now calling that one <laugh>. I'm just kidding. Um, we talked about those who are living in rural areas and the impact on small towns. Talk about what you're seeing out in the rural areas and why it's important to connect these places and why that matters. 

Tracy Doaks (11:10):
Yeah. It matters because if you do not have thriving communities, and when I say thriving communities, I mean, they have access to healthcare, they have access to education, they have access to jobs. If, if nothing else, the, the applications mm-hmm <affirmative>. Um, those small towns tend to perish. Right. And then you also don't have economic development. You won't have companies that wanna go into those places. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Because it's not educated. They don't have the healthcare that they need. Um, they don't see thriving communities. And I think that is the biggest struggle here. And the biggest concern about not having the connectivity in those areas. And you mentioned a little bit about healthcare. You think about the farmers and how their lives have changed so extensively and mental health is a really big deal. So they're not gonna have access to mental health, um, providers where they are. So telehealth might be the main way that they access that if they do it all. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so, you know, them being able to have that kind of, um, digital access to those things are really important and we should all care about that. 

Jessica Denon (12:27):

And when you're connecting hospitals, schools, libraries, you're really connecting the whole community. That's right. In, in general. Um, also when I think about farmers, I think about all their autonomous, all the technologies that they have that they need connection for. It's crazy. It's what's going on now. It's, um, what about we, hurricane Helene? Um, I, I was told before this interview that I really should ask you about that and how MCNC responded, and, um, you know, how do you prepare for that? How do you go through that and how do you react to that? Like, how do you respond and, and get what people need at that time? 

Tracy Doaks (13:06):
Right. So Jessica, let's start with how do you prepare for that? Uhhuh? You don't, yeah, it's a 100 year flood that no one expected to happen in that part of our state. We're used to hurricanes on the beach. Right. Uhhuh on the eastern coast. We were prepared for those every year, but this one we were not. So we had fiber in the ground, we had aerial fiber, and all of it was washed away. Oh. Just completely washed away because so many areas were flooded. And so for us and our team, we had to quick, quickly, uh, come together to put in temporary solutions. And we just happened to be in a position to do that. But then there are others that needed our help. The regional providers that were not in that position, be it financially or technically that we were also helping, let's, let's figure out a way to support them too.

 
(14:02)
Mm-hmm <affirmative>. In order for them to at least get to a place temporarily to support the communities that they serve. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Um, we in North Carolina are still reeling from that. And our legislature just passed, um, an, I think it was $2 billion or planning to pass $2 billion in Helene funding to just continue to support that part of our state. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Be it for, um, the smaller businesses that are there, other types of things that are needed. I've been out there twice and just seeing the roads wash washed away. I think at one point I saw a semi in the river that hadn't even been pulled out yet. 

Jessica Denson (14:47):
Oh. 'cause there's just so much,

Tracy Doaks (14:48):
There's just so much and so much water, 

Jessica Denson (14:50):
Uhhuh. 

Tracy Doaks (14:50):
And I've been to places there where I, I wanted to go to one of the art gallery galleries that I frequented. It was gone. Wow. It was just completely gone. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And that, um, in Asheville in particular. Yeah, that's what it's that part. That's what it was kind of known for. 

Jessica Denson (15:07):
Yeah. Asheville with their restaurants and there's art restaurant. Yes. 

Tracy Doaks (15:11):
Art and all of those things. So that was part of their identity. And there's other parts in the western part of the state. Mm-hmm. And so we're continuing to build permanent solutions 

Jessica Denson (15:21):
Mm-hmm <affirmative>. 

Tracy Doaks (15:21):
To, um, replace our temporary solutions. And now figuring out with the legislature how MCNC can support those other regional providers who are really struggling still to get back to where they were and to support those communities. And by the way, we have a vested interest because we utilize them 

Jessica Denson (15:44):
Mm-hmm 

Tracy Doaks (15:45):
<affirmative>. In order to get to some of our community anchor institutions. So it's really important to us that they get back to where they were before somehow. 

Jessica Denson (15:55):
And it, it's, we at least at connected issue that I've found, and we've talked about my CEO talks about a lot, the importance of partnering because it's such a huge need. Not just responding to disaster, but also just the digital divide in general. So how critical is it not just for this, but for all things to partner with others in your mind? 

Tracy Doaks (16:15):
Um, you know, just like across the nation mm-hmm <affirmative>. When we've talked about bead funding, for example, you know that the first phase of that was the middle mile. So that, you know, we're all building Middle Mile mm-hmm <affirmative>. With open networks. So we partner with last mile providers to provide access to residents. And that is a partnership. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. It always has been. And it's really important. So MCNC received about $10 million, I'm probably getting the numbers wrong from NTIA to build another 200 miles mm-hmm <affirmative>. Of Middle Mile to connect more community anchor institutions, but to lay the groundwork for bead, laying the groundwork for bead funding 

Jessica Denson (16:59):
That we need to now come through on the other end of it. 

Tracy Doaks (17:01):
We do. Yeah. Yeah. 'cause 'cause that's the collaboration piece. Uhhuh, that's how we work together to serve these communities. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And without that, we have to find other ways to be able to collaborate outside of the government funding. 

Jessica Denson (17:15):
Yeah. 

Tracy Doaks (17:16):
In order to support, we can't not support them. Right. Regardless of what happens. Mm-hmm 

Jessica Denson (17:20):
<affirmative>. So are there other, I know you just serve North Carolina 

Tracy Doaks (17:24):
Mm-hmm <affirmative>. 

Jessica Denson (17:24):
But are there other organizations like yours operating across the US that you know of or that you're in contact with? 

Tracy Doaks (17:31):
Absolutely. Absolutely. And so what I'll say is, uh, I don't know if you're familiar with the quilt. So the quilt is just like, it sounds, it's a patchwork of all of us, Uhhuh all of the research and education networks across the country that do what we do. 

Jessica Denson (17:45):
Mm-hmm <affirmative>. 

Tracy Doaks (17:46):
And we come together and talk and share and 

Jessica Denson (17:49):
Oh, it's just the name of an organization, the quilt, 

Tracy Doaks (17:51):
It's the name of the organization. 

Jessica Denson (17:52):
Okay. I'll look it up. 

Tracy Doaks (17:53):
Um, run by the executive director, um, Jen Leisure, she's amazing by the way, and she's lovely to talk to. We, I work very closely with her. But, um, merit Network in Michigan, Uhhuh, 

Jessica Denson (18:08):
<affirmative>, 

Tracy Doaks (18:08):
Uh, I think the two of us are the longest running research and education networks across the country. And so there are others. Some are associated with broadband offices. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Others are associated with universities, but they do similar things. But we are the two largest and the longest running research and education networks across the country. That that's, 

Jessica Denson (18:31):
That's incredible and great. So before I let you go, and thank you for the double interview, <laugh> <laugh>, uh, why was it important for you to come to the Broadband Community Summit? 

Tracy Doaks (18:40):
So this is my first time coming to this summit, Uhhuh <affirmative>, and I'll admit, I went to, um, the Fiber Broadband conference, um, uh, I guess a couple of weeks ago, Uhhuh. And I did, um, one of the keynote notes, and it was really in Incre, incredible to be able to do that, Uhhuh to be able to speak my piece about what is happening across the country in broadband 

Jessica Denson (19:03):
Uhhuh. 

Tracy Doaks (19:03):
And so what I'm finding with my cohort, uh, Nestor, is that it is important for us to connect because this is where the collaboration happens. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. This is where we'll figure out and solve problems in ways that we wouldn't if we were all sitting in our states. That's true. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. 

Jessica Denson (19:21):
And so face something about face to face. 

Tracy Doaks (19:23):
It is, it's something about face to face. It's something about meeting haphazardly. Uhhuh, right? Yeah. Um, downstairs, or, you know, walking around in the exhibits, uhhuh, um, those relationships become really meaningful. And you may call upon somebody, um, later on where you think of an idea and say, Hey, I met somebody. I wonder if they would be interested in doing X mm-hmm <affirmative>. And that's why these kinds of communities are important. And I feel that's why it's important for us to be here, Uhhuh <affirmative>, um, even though we, we don't do this often, but we will start. 

Jessica Denson (19:57):
Yeah. 

Tracy Doaks (19:58):
Um, because it's important, especially in this day and time and what's happening in the world. 

Jessica Denson (20:03):
Yeah. The, um, what do you hope happens? What do you, where do you hope to see the state of North Carolina when it comes to connectivity in the next year, five years, 10 years down the road? 

Tracy Doaks (20:15):
I have said that my vision is just like the, um, governor and the legislature. I want North Carolina to be the most connected state in the nation. That's fantastic. Period. 

Jessica Denson (20:30):
End of sentence, 

Tracy Doaks (20:31):
End of the sentence. Fantastic. Especially because we have such a large percentage of rural communities mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so that's not an easy task. Some states don't have that complicated issue mm-hmm <affirmative>. The way we do. And so that's what I would like to see. I'd love to see the bead funding come through so that we can continue to, to, um, make those plans and execute on those plans. But that would be my wish for North Carolina. 

Jessica Denson (21:01):
Okay. It's a great place to leave it. Tracy Dos, who is with CNC, the President, and CEOI really appreciate your time. Times' two. I appreciate you <laugh>, 

Tracy Doaks (21:11):
<laugh>. Thank you, Jessica, for having me. 

Jessica Denson (21:19):
We'll continue our coverage from the Broadband Community Summit on our next episode of Connected Nation. I'm Jessica Sen. Thanks for listening. If you wanna know more about us, head to connected nation.org or find our latest episodes on your favorite podcast platforms.