Special edition: Two visionaries behind Kansas' digital leap

On this special edition of Connected Nation, we head BACK to Wichita, Kansas for an AI Interconnection Summit.

This time,  we talk with the woman many credit with greenlighting the FIRST EVER Internet Exchange Point in Kansas and with one CEO who is going to help make it a reality.

Recommended links:
AI Interconnection Summit website

Socket Fiber website

Jade Piros de Carvalho Linkedin profile 

iM Data Centers website

Mike Roark Linkedin profile 

Chapters

• 2:10 Jade's story
• 4:57 Reflections from the summit
• 7:46 Wichita being a global city
• 10:19 Mike Roark with iM Data Centers
• 17:07 Getting involved with CNIXP
• 20:12 Data center expansion

Transcript

Jessica Denson, Host (00:02):

This is Connected Nation, an award-winning podcast focused on all things broadband from closing the digital divide to improving your internet speeds. We talk technology topics that impact all of us, our families, and our neighborhoods.

(00:16):

On this special edition of Connected Nation, we head back to Wichita, Kansas for an AI interconnection summit. This time we talk with a woman mini credited with green lighting, the first ever internet exchange point in Kansas, and with one CEO who's going to help make it a reality. I'm Jessica Denson, and this is Connected Nation.

(00:45):

 I am in Wichita, Kansas. Uh, I was just here a few months ago for the groundbreaking of the C-N-I-X-P, which is a connected nation internet exchange point. And I'm back for an AI internet interconnection summit that just wrapped. And a lot of people at this summit, PO PO pointed, excuse me, pointed to the same person over and over again. Jade Piros de Carvalho

(01:09):

Did I say it right? You did. It's, it's a mouthful. My Texas accent is making it hard on me. <laugh>. So, Jade, welcome.

Jade Piros de Carvalho, Socket Fiber (01:16):

Thank you so much for having me.

Jessica Denson, Host (01:17):

Yeah, it was great to see your face. I, I see you at all the broadband conferences. Why do you think it's so important to come together?

Jade Piros de Carvalho, Socket Fiber (01:24):

Well, I think there are so many important leaders who attend these events and the opportunity to hear from subject matter experts understand the emerging trends in the industry mm-hmm <affirmative>. And, and really just network and build those connections. It's, it's priceless when you really think about it. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And a lot of the work that gets done at these events is based on these face-to-face meetings that happen outside of the formal presentations and panels. And yeah. It's just been, um, an opportunity to, to meet and learn from some of the best in the business.

Jessica Denson, Host (02:00):

Uh, you must have made a great impression over and over 'cause everybody was all smiles and excited to see you. And, um, we could talk about the dinner exchange point in just a minute, but talk a little bit about your past role and, um, kind of your role in helping shape to where we got to this place we are now.

Jade Piros de Carvalho, Socket Fiber (02:20):

Okay. Well, I, I think everyone was giving me way too much credit today, but that's okay. You, I'll say, I'll take it. Um, I ran the Kansas Office of Broadband Development for two years and had the opportunity to, um, kind of architect some of the American Rescue Plan Act dollars that went into the, um, you know, capital projects fund programs mm-hmm <affirmative>. That we administered through that office, one of which, um, was the IXP grant, uh, that allowed Wichita to be the first of its kind for Connected nation to build that facility here in Kansas. So, you know, I would say my only contribution was understanding the benefit of IPS for localizing traffic and reducing latency and

Speaker 3 (03:06):

Mm-hmm <affirmative>.

Jade Piros de Carvalho, Socket Fiber (03:07):

Um, so yeah, we, we had the first, I, I guess we had the first grant program that enabled IXP providers to apply for it mm-hmm <affirmative>. And, and that's, you guys were successful

Jessica Denson, Host (03:22):

<laugh>. And that's why we're here. So Wichita State University donated the land where this is gonna sit on for the next 40 years, and your office with the grant, uh, made things possible. Why do you think that, um, you saw opportunity and something there that maybe others haven't had yet to see?

Jade Piros de Carvalho, Socket Fiber (03:40):

Hmm. I mean, maybe just because I, I'm a, not, I, I wouldn't say I'm an expert in, um, the technical understanding of network architecture, but I do know enough to understand that latency is so critical to all of these emerging technologies. Ai, there's a lot of applications from telemedicine to, you know, machine manufacturing, agriculture, precision ag, that would require lower levels of latency that are, that would not be available without the advent of like an internet exchange point. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Um, in a state, like having more ips really reduces latency, which is not really talked about. Right. Uhhuh, like, everyone talks about bandwidth, but they don't understand that that round trip travel time is critical for everything we're talking about today. Whether that's like autonomous vehicles or, you know, doing surgery remotely. Like you're gonna have to have low latency and IPS can help facilitate that. Mm-hmm <affirmative>.

Jessica Denson, Host (04:40):

And that really just in layman's terms, is lag time.

Jade Piros de Carvalho, Socket Fiber (04:43):

Yeah. Lag time. Yes.

Jessica Denson, Host (04:44):

Yeah. The speed, the lag time it takes, the way it, how long it has to go to come back and, and shortening it by having an IXP here in Wichita. Uh, so today, let, let's fast forward today you did the, we did this grant, you came today. What is it that you really heard? Was there a, a theme or something that stuck with you about today that was really interesting? Or what did you, what did you get out of the summit?

Jade Piros de Carvalho, Socket Fiber (05:07):

What I thought was really interesting is how the program was designed to help attendees understand that all of this does not come from the ether.

Jessica Denson, Host (05:18):

Mm-hmm

Jade Piros de Carvalho, Socket Fiber (05:18):

<affirmative>. There's no magic wand. You have to really start at this real estate level and then this physical level with ducks and manholes and conduit and fiber and, and just building up to all these different levels of application, et cetera. And I think I, I didn't know what to expect when I came today, but I didn't expect to get such an education of the different levels it takes to get from a disease mm-hmm <affirmative>. With a project like this. Right.

Jessica Denson, Host (05:47):

Uh, me as well. And I, I work for Connected Nation. It was very interesting to see how it's layered. Yeah. Yeah. That was really, hunter Newbie deserves credit for that. He's like, Jessica, put them in order. Put this p the presenters in order like this because it'll make sense as we layer it through. Um, for you, what do you hope this leads to for Kansas?

Jade Piros de Carvalho, Socket Fiber (06:06):

Well, I guess I just hope that it accomplishes the goal that was originally set out with the design of this grant program, which is to enable Kansans to have the same level of access and speed and latency and, and really fully, um, get the benefit of the worldwide internet as is available in these super metro areas that have had IPS forever. Mm-hmm

Jessica Denson, Host (06:31):

<affirmative>.

Jade Piros de Carvalho, Socket Fiber (06:32):

So I also really hope that being on the campus of a university, which is a hub for research and innovation, that this IXP en enables Wichita State to continue to thrive and innovate and, and really be a leader in this field.

(06:50):

(06:50):

In, in technology and innovation. I'm, you know, I am a shocker <laugh>, this is my alma mater. So, um, I, I think that's gonna happen. Thrilled that, you know, this event happened, the groundbreaking happened, we're gonna see the fruits of the labor next spring

Jessica Denson, Host (06:50):

Jade Piros de Carvalho, Socket Fiber (07:06):

And Yeah. Excited that, um, we've had a lot of interest from companies here today, and we're gonna have interest from providers to locate in there as well.

Jessica Denson, Host (07:15):

I just have to say, you know, my first time in Wichita was the groundbreaking. Oh, really? And yeah, I'd never been here and I was really blown away how, what a great city it was and how much innovation is happening here. I didn't know the history with aviation. Uh, I was got a book,

Jade Piros de Carvalho, Socket Fiber (07:28):

Fair Capital

Jessica Denson, Host (07:29):

Baby. Super cool. Um, it is just a very interesting place and, um, you know, we always hear, but I grew up in, in Texas, so the middle of the country as well. So I always hear it's flyover country, but there's a lot of great things happening in the middle of the country Yes. That people are missing out on. And things like this, I feel like fuel that there were a lot of people from around the world that were here today. I was shocked by that. Yeah. It was cool to hear what they had to say about it. Um, do you really see Wichita being a, a global city? I, I do. And not just a US or a Kansas City.

Jade Piros de Carvalho, Socket Fiber (08:02):

You know, I always have because we are the air capital of the world.

Jessica Denson, Host (08:06):

Mm-hmm <affirmative>.

Jade Piros de Carvalho, Socket Fiber (08:06):

I feel like we have this global presence, but again, it's understated. We're humble people here, and we are seen as fly bird country, but I was so heartened to see so many people from other states and other countries visit here, because once you come to Kansas and you get to experience the kindness and empathy and welcomeness of all the people you meet mm-hmm <affirmative>. And it's just, it's more than what you think,

Jessica Denson, Host (08:31):

Right? Yes. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And

Jade Piros de Carvalho, Socket Fiber (08:32):

You step off that plane and, um, so yeah. It's, it was, it was a really fun day.

Jessica Denson, Host (08:37):

So tell us, tell our audience, uh, what you're up to now, what you're doing now.

Jade Piros de Carvalho, Socket Fiber (08:41):

Yeah. Well, I'm back in ISP land, so, um, prior to running the broadband office at Kansas, I worked for, um, a clec mm-hmm

(08:49):

<affirmative>.

(08:50):

Called Idea Tech. Um, I'm now working primarily for a CLEC called, um, socket Fiber in Missouri. But Idea Tech and Socket are sister companies both owned by, um, Oak Hill Capital, both, you know, were acquired in May. So I get to do market opening primarily in the St. Louis region. Uhhuh <affirmative>, I, uh, establish franchise agreements and, um, yeah, it's, it's a lot. That sounds

Jessica Denson, Host (09:12):

Cool.

Jade Piros de Carvalho, Socket Fiber (09:13):

It's a

Jessica Denson, Host (09:13):

Lot of fun. So, very exciting.

Jade Piros de Carvalho, Socket Fiber (09:14):

Yeah. Yeah. It really marries my experience, um, from being with a provider, being the broadband director, and also my tenure years, um, on a city council. So it's, it's, it's a nice, it's nice to like be in that game again and understand the workings and, and it's an exciting time, Jessica, in fiber, like, everyone's really freaked out about bead and, but there's so much, there's so much private capital being infused into expanding these networks. And then this conference talked about AI and the opportunity that that brings to, you know, build fiber to ips or data centers. So it's, it's a fun industry. Exciting time.

Jessica Denson, Host (09:53):

Well, I, I'm excited to talk to you. I, I know I'll see you at the next broadband conference, I'm sure <laugh> Broadband Nation, or BroadB or Calx or something down the road. But thank you so much, Jade. I really appreciate your time.

Jade Piros de Carvalho, Socket Fiber (10:04):

Well, thanks for, yeah, thanks for inviting me to

Jessica Denson, Host (10:05):

Chat. Yeah. Bye. I am at the AI interconnection Summit taking place in Wichita, Kansas. It just wrapped, we just wrapped the cocktail hour and I'm with Big Mike, Michael Rourke. <laugh>. Hi, Michael. Howdy. Hi. Tell him you're with I am Data centers. Or do you say it? I'm data centers.

Mike Roard, iM Data Centers (10:25):

No, just, I am data centers.

Jessica Denson, Host (10:26):

<laugh>. I like that even better.

Mike Roard, iM Data Centers (10:28):

And, uh, yeah, and I'm the founder and CEO

Jessica Denson, Host (10:31):

Founder and CEO. How long, tell me a little bit about the organization, how long you guys have been around.

Mike Roard, iM Data Centers (10:36):

Golly. Well, this is, this company is derivative of a construction company I've had for 38 years. And so we, um, uh, we started out building and, uh, building all manner of projects in the, in the mid nineties at the deregulation of telecommunications. Um, we started a specialty building for telecommunications companies and, and, uh, you know, mission critical facilities and data centers. And it sort of took over our lives, particularly when we realized in telecommunications, that oftentimes these deregulated companies, their biggest customer would be their biggest competitor, which meant they needed to ride together in the same fiber backbones, which meant they needed to reside within the same real estate. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. So consequently, we started developing carrier hotels. Uh, a seven story building that I developed in Miami, ended up selling to Digital Realty. And, uh, it was the first acquisition they ever made in 2002. So again, we started building and, um, data centers and telecom switch sites ultimately all over the Eastern US

Speaker 3 (11:44):

Mm-hmm <affirmative>.

Mike Roard, iM Data Centers (11:44):

And, um, and, uh, millions of square feet. And then, and then we were simultaneously developing carrier hotels and then always sort of learning enough to be dangerous <laugh>. We started to build our own data centers, you know, for co-location, retail, co-location within our own carrier hotels. And then that morphed into a business where we ultimately had seven large data centers, most of them in the New Jersey, New York area, and eventually selling that company. Which brings me to, IM data centers where, uh, most of my data centers back in the day were leasehold improvements, and, um, and we wanna own the dirt. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Currently what we're doing is we're developing another, we're building another portfolio of owned and operated data centers simultaneously. We manufacture modular data centers either for sale, for lease, or as our own facilities that we will own and operate

Jessica Denson, Host (12:45):

<laugh>.

Mike Roard, iM Data Centers (12:45):

Now, you know everything about me.

Jessica Denson, Host (12:46):

I know. Okay. Let's, we're done. Nice to talk to you, Michael. No, I'm just kidding. <laugh>. Um, when I got lots of questions, I'm still good. Yeah. Um, so when you first got into that, what was it that drew you to the telecommunications? I know you said that you saw that they needed a space for themselves a, a larger space where they could all be, but what led you to that? Because you were in the construction industry,

Mike Roard, iM Data Centers (13:07):

Right? Well, yeah. I was in the construction industry and I would build a, you know, a building and then some interiors, and then a renovation and a Civil Works projects. But it was sort of every Tom, Dick and Harry kind of project. And the thing that I liked about telecommunications and mission critical facility construction is that it was something we could take on the road. It was cookie cutter enough that we could replicate it in different markets. Um, and it became pretty easy to, um, build all over the eastern US, as it were.

Speaker 3 (13:39):

Mm-hmm <affirmative>.

Mike Roard, iM Data Centers (13:40):

So, and the margins, uh, people were in a hurry and, um, and they would pay for subject matter expertise. And mission critical facilities are a pretty involved, integrated set of systems where you have, you know, power which drives the cooling systems, and then the need for a lot of resiliency. And then there would be the specialized fire suppression systems, data center infrastructure management systems, access control

Jessica Denson, Host (14:08):

Mm-hmm <affirmative>.

Mike Roard, iM Data Centers (14:08):

You know, um,

Jessica Denson, Host (14:10):

C so you really got

Mike Roard, iM Data Centers (14:11):

To know it and what it needed. Yeah, yeah. With all of the inherent systems

Speaker 3 (14:15):

Mm-hmm <affirmative>.

Mike Roard, iM Data Centers (14:16):

And so what we did was very quickly is we took on design and engineering, and so we became a, a complete, you know, a turnkey design build shop to create facilities mm-hmm <affirmative>. And that gave us sort of speed to market and, and a lot of control over what we were doing. And it, and it helped our margins.

Jessica Denson, Host (14:35):

You, your face lit up when somebody, when we did the panel with the q and a, uh, where the audience could ask questions, and, uh, one person asked about data centers in which in Wichita you just lit up. Oh, wait. Now let me take that question. Yeah, yeah. So, oh, why were you so excited about that?

Mike Roard, iM Data Centers (14:50):

Well, that's our market. Yeah. I mean, we're doing this, uh, very specialized internet exchange, um, inter internet exchange for Connected Nation. Um, and you know, that's an exciting project, and it's a modular project and it's, uh, it's pretty cool. But most of what we're doing are is, uh, data centers. And most of what we're doing is high performance compute

Speaker 3 (15:12):

Mm-hmm <affirmative>.

Mike Roard, iM Data Centers (15:12):

And most of what we're doing currently is north of a hundred kw per rack involving a combination of direct to chip liquid cooling, as well as rear door heat exchange technology. And so that is something that we've really specialized in. Um, currently we have a customer in our data, in our Miami data center that's moving in GPUs that have never been installed anywhere in the world. And, uh, and they're going into our Miami data center first, and those are 120 KW per rack, um, uh, servers. So I, again, I like the specialization involved. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. I like the dramatic change of the form factor, which plays very well with modular data centers, meaning that popular wisdom, when you needed to cool with air, you would need huge volumes of space. And with direct to chip liquid cooling where your, your water lines are actually going in one side of the server and out the other, it's, um, uh, you don't need that volume of air. So this, you know, so, you know, 10 square feet would be condensed into, you know, a two inch diameter pipe effectively. And so that plays really well with the sort of the tight compact modular facilities that we design. And so I'm talking about the change of the form factor, uh, entailed with, um, a direct chip liquid cooling, and how you don't need this huge volume, you know, to move air to cool chiller, uh, to cool servers. What you need is you need a, a chill water pipe

Speaker 3 (16:52):

Mm-hmm <affirmative>.

Mike Roard, iM Data Centers (16:52):

You know, in, in a small diameter. And so it plays perfectly into the tight compartmentalized, um, um, you know, controlled volumes that are entailed with modular data center construction.

Jessica Denson, Host (17:08):

So why did you get involved with the C-N-I-X-P? Were you just excited about the idea or you just have a great relationship with Hunter? What, what

Mike Roard, iM Data Centers (17:15):

Was it? Oh, golly. We've built in the past 11 fac, uh, facilities for Hunter, and I've known Hunter for actually 25 years.

Jessica Denson, Host (17:23):

I feel like it's hard to say no to Hunter. Am I right?

Mike Roard, iM Data Centers (17:26):

<laugh>? Yeah, he's <laugh> Hunter. Hunter's compelling. He, um, he, um, he created a, a completely new business concept, um, around, uh, telex mm-hmm <affirmative>. And, uh, and the work that he did there. And I met him actually at the very first data center they had at 60 Hudson. And he met me right as I was acquiring the, uh, the Miami Old Miami Bell building that I subsequently sold to Digital Realty. So we collaborated, he was interested in mm-hmm <affirmative>. And actually the building, um, I helped the owners, uh, design the building that Telex ultimately bought in Atlanta, Georgia. So there's, there's sort of a one degree of separation mm-hmm <affirmative>. In much of what, um, hunter and I did

Jessica Denson, Host (18:11):

Over the years. You see, you saw a lot of that today, the collaboration and Yeah. The, the, the way that things built on top of each other. I thought it was very interesting. What is something that you took from today's summit that you found? Yeah, that's it.

Mike Roard, iM Data Centers (18:22):

Hmm. Well, I liked, I liked the setup where the speakers were sort of organized by layer mm-hmm <affirmative>. So I was on the physical infrastructure layer, and then there was James who was, you know, more on the network and the, but it more on the, the, the telecom or the comms network level. And then there was, um, um, you know, dks and, and uh, and, and, and moving on up to, uh, you know, the actual server systems that are gonna be, you know, in the facility. Um, so it's,

Jessica Denson, Host (18:59):

That was interesting the way it was layered. Yeah.

Mike Roard, iM Data Centers (19:01):

Yeah. And, and that's, that's always been something I've been fascinated with. I mean, I, I, I built a full stack architecture at Fiber Media before I sold the company. So meaning that we had the data center, we control the network and, and we actually build the cloud. And, uh, we sold cloud services as well.

Jessica Denson, Host (19:20):

Oh, wow.

Mike Roard, iM Data Centers (19:20):

So I've always been intrigued with the full stack. We've created a high performance compute as a service cloud ourselves, and we're not really in the marketplace with it yet. We've been more playing with it. But we've done, you know, Carnegie Mellon has done particle research, particle physics research related to the higson, uh, the Higgs boson, you know, on our, you know, HPC servers in our data center

Speaker 3 (19:43):

Mm-hmm <affirmative>.

Mike Roard, iM Data Centers (19:44):

So there's been a lot of interesting beta testing and applications. So I don't know where fire, where I am is gonna go with that, but, uh, I assume at some point we'll go somewhere with it.

Jessica Denson, Host (19:54):

There's some, a lot of potential there. Yeah. Yeah. <laugh>, you're giving me your eyebrows, like

Mike Roard, iM Data Centers (19:58):

Yeah. Got some ideas. But meanwhile, but meanwhile, you know, we're, we're trying to more or less stick to our knitting.

Jessica Denson, Host (20:03):

Yeah, gotcha.

Mike Roard, iM Data Centers (20:04):

And, uh, and focus on, um, uh, modular manufacturing and the owned and operated data centers side.

Jessica Denson, Host (20:11):

So what do you help come hopes come is next. I know we're going that we wanna open up the CNX piece scheduled for spring. Do you hope that you're putting these up all over the country?

Mike Roard, iM Data Centers (20:21):

I'm interested in, I've become very interested in Wichita as a potential location for another manufacturing plant. Mm-hmm

Speaker 3 (20:29):

<affirmative>.

Mike Roard, iM Data Centers (20:29):

Our existing manufacturing plant is down in the lower right section of the co the country in, in, um, Fort Lauderdale. And, uh, I think I need something in the center of the company country and, and then ultimately in the, uh, western part of the country.

Jessica Denson, Host (20:44):

That's exciting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Mike Roard, iM Data Centers (20:46):

So that would be, I think also Wichita, uh, needs a high performance compute data center mm-hmm <affirmative>. And I'm interested in, you know,

Jessica Denson, Host (20:54):

Like I said, eyes pitching in

Mike Roard, iM Data Centers (20:55):

Possibly

Jessica Denson, Host (20:56):

Lit up

Mike Roard, iM Data Centers (20:57):

Developing that <laugh>. Yeah. Because I'm a data center guy. Yeah. It, I'm not a, you know, I mean I, I, I don't know the internet exchange business particularly well. Uh, you know, we can build a great internet exchange point facility, uh, which is perfectly in line with everything we've done in the past, but I, um, but we're, we're high performance compute data center

Jessica Denson, Host (21:18):

People. Yeah. Um, I just wanna let the audience know, the reason I called you Big Mike at the start is 'cause other people called you Big Mike first.

Mike Roard, iM Data Centers (21:26):

Yeah.

Jessica Denson, Host (21:26):

And we just met

Mike Roard, iM Data Centers (21:28):

Because I'm six foot seven. Yeah,

Jessica Denson, Host (21:29):

You're very tough

Mike Roard, iM Data Centers (21:30):

<laugh>. Without my high heels.

Jessica Denson, Host (21:31):

Yeah. Without your high heels.

Mike Roard, iM Data Centers (21:32):

With my high heels. I might be seven foot two.

Jessica Denson, Host (21:34):

You're huge without you with your high heels. Yeah.

Mike Roard, iM Data Centers (21:36):

But it makes my calves look awesome,

Jessica Denson, Host (21:38):

<laugh>. It does. It's very attractive. <laugh>, what

Mike Roard, iM Data Centers (21:41):

Would, you know,

Jessica Denson, Host (21:42):

Uh, I might have peaked <laugh>. Um, Michael York, I really appreciate your time. Thank you. I know it grabs you right at the end. You're probably tired, so I appreciate your time so

Mike Roard, iM Data Centers (21:50):

Much. Okay, thanks.

Jessica Denson, Host (21:52):

Executive leadership from companies across the country either attended or presented at the summit. I sit down with two of them to ask why they felt it was critical to be in the room as they continue our special coverage of the AI interconnection Summit later this week. Until then, I'm Jessica Denson. If you like our show and wanna know more about us, head to connected nation.org and look for our latest episodes on all major podcast platforms.