Why some broadband providers will not survive the next wave

Broadband is growing fast but not everyone is keeping up.  In this episode of Connected Nation, industry veteran Scott Sampson breaks down the biggest mistakes ISPs are making and explains why AI, consolidation, and new funding are reshaping the market.  Find out what he thinks it will take to survive what comes next.

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Scott Sampson's LinkedIn

Transcript

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Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (00:07):

This is Connected Nation; an award-winning podcast focused on all things broadband. From closing the digital divide to improving your internet speeds, we talk technology topics that impact all of us, our families, and our neighborhoods.

(00:22):

 He's got 30 years of experience in the broadband space and has run multiple companies, including several startups.

(00:29):

 On this episode of Connected Nation, I talk with Scott Sampson about the mistakes ISPs are making, the future of technology, and avoiding the jitters. I'm Jessica Denson, and this is Connected Nation.

(00:46):

I'm at Fiber Connect 2026, taking place in Orlando, Florida, May 17th through the 20th. And, uh, I have a repeat guest that has joined us. He's one of my favorites to interview. I know I say that about some people, but this w- with him, I really, really mean it. It's Scott Sampson. Uh, welcome, Scott. <laugh>

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (01:06):

Thanks for having me. Again, Jessica. I love doing this. I, you know, I feel like I'm on Joe Rogan. <laugh>

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (01:12):

Except for I'm more interesting. I think- Yeah,

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (01:14):

A lot more interesting. And I tried to get on Joe Rogan and he didn't think I was interesting enough. So

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (01:19):

I- You're super in. Yes, you are. And you've got all the personality. It's always a pleasure to talk to you and see you. Um, last time we talked to you, you were heading up three companies, you had a whole bunch of things in the works, but since then, you've like, you've stepped away from some of that. Talk about it. I

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (01:36):

Did. It, you know, it was, it was nothing personal about the business. I love the business. I love the industry and I've been in it for so long that, you know, it was just, just finding what's right for me. Right. And so, you know, I, I had a, I had a company, it's called Powder Communications s and I've had it for years. Mm-hmm. And I just decided to spin it off and really do this myself. What am I doing? That is the big $10,000 question right now. <laugh>. If somebody just pay me $10,000, I'd probably go do that. But I'm, I'm, you know, really looking at ... I've been in the industry for so long. I've been doing this, you know, now 30 plus years. Uh-huh. Uh, mainly in the tech, all in tech, you know, but from everything from sales to being a CEO. So, and I've done the engineering, I've done design, I've worked with marketing and finance, you name it.

(02:20):

I've worked with every department. So, you know, the show's been very interesting for me because usually I'm just one of those guys that sit there and I have a plan. Uh-huh. And this time my plans are getting modified really fast. I've got a couple build projects that, you know, working with one group, trying to help them do another, do a project. I've got another pro- couple projects I'm looking at doing. Um, probably I'll do those just because one of them I can fund myself and do those personally. And they're good businesses for me, but I've got a couple bigger projects so we're looking for bigger investors. But I've got a lot of, lot of ISPs that are coming into bead and, and/or just tech and they just need help. You know, they're like, you know, we're doing okay. Uh-huh. You know, we're making okay money.

(03:01):

And, you know, and we got into conversations and I was like, "Well, you're doing this, this, this, this and this wrong, you know, and you need to do this to, and you could probably take it from, you know, making a couple million a year to like four or five." Mm-hmm. Just by what you have in place. So it, it's one of those, do I go help

(03:18):

And finish out my career- Uh-huh. ... or do I go build it again and die in the field? I, I, you know, I don't know.

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (03:25):

Whoa, we just got some music added. <laugh> We, we

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (03:28):

Got-

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (03:29):

I don't know why that music is playing, but suddenly- They

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (03:31):

Walked in through that door.

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (03:32):

Oh, there's some people walking- Wow.

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (03:35):

... loud.

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (03:35):

Yeah. So

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (03:36):

You want to pause it for a second.

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (03:37):

Yeah. We just had a little hiccup, little <laugh> we had some music interrupt us and so we had to start over a little bit. Come on,

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (03:42):

That was great. 80s piped in music. <laugh> I was happy for a second. I'm like, oh,

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (03:46):

That's going back the day when

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (03:47):

I had no worries. <laugh>

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (03:48):

They have me at the end of this hall in this room for the podcast because they said it would be quiet, but all I've heard is people setting up tables, now we just got the, uh, the, uh, soundtrack for lunch. Well, anyway, let's, let's pick up from there. You were talking about how Fiber Connect is really making you rethink or at least examine what you want to do next. And is that just that you're having these really good conversations with these ISPs or what? I'm having

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (04:11):

Phenomenal conversations. I mean, you know, I think it, this is, I think we're at this point, it was interesting, you know, being in the opening ceremony, one of the things I said, there's 1,500 ISPs.

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (04:21):

Uh-huh.

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (04:22):

And I mean, you know, and I worry about 1,500 ISPs. I, that's too many. And I mean, you, you know the carriers are going to come around in the next five, 10 years and just start buying them, you know, and building mop elegant, but-

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (04:33):

Uh-huh.

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (04:34):

... we look at that, how do we get from now to that point when you can sell or just have a nice lifestyle business and survive? And there's a lot of ISPs and they've been around, I mean, it's not like these guys have been around like two years. These guys have been around like 20 years or 30 years and they've just made some general mistakes. It's like they didn't pivot to go to the next level of what this industry's doing and where it's going. I mean, you know, they're, they're not looking into AI. Mm-hmm. You know, if you're not looking into AI today, you're missing the boat. Mm-hmm. I mean, yeah, do you trust it 100%? That was, I, it was funny, on our last conversation we talked about AI. Yeah. And I said, you know, AI, I don't 100% believe, but it does do some things very well.

(05:16):

Mm-hmm. It can help you with your business. It can help, uh, you know, ask after hours customer service, uh, you know, help with design, help you with marketing, help you, help you, help you. It's got all these great things, but it, there are companies that are just going, "Oh, well, this is the way we've always done it. " I, I was in, I was in, in West Virginia last week at an event and one of the gentlemen said, you know, "Well, I don't know if my team would want to switch pieces of equipment because my engineers are used to doing it this way." Mm-hmm. And in my mind, it's like, well, then hire new. <laugh> Yeah. You know, start to pivot because if you don't, you're going to be left behind. Mm-hmm. And that's like sitting there going, "Well, we're really good at dial up, so we're going to stick with it.

(05:55):

" Yeah. No, it's a dead product. Let's move on to the next level. And I really do look at that going, you know, is it, you know, in my life right now, it's, I'm more about helping than making money.

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (06:07):

Yeah.

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (06:08):

And that, not that I don't want to make

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (06:10):

Money. Making money's nice, right? <laugh> But,

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (06:11):

But I, you know, it's, it's how do I end out my career? And, you know, I made a comment and this was probably the, you know, the, the gentleman asked me, and it was another podcast and sorry, I cheated on you there.

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (06:23):

Oh my gosh. I know

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (06:24):

It's terrible,

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (06:24):

But- Joe Rogan's okay. That's on your top five, your list, but no one else. <laugh>

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (06:30):

Yeah, but it was interesting because he said, "What do you want your legacy to be? " And I said, "Well, legacy is always interesting because legacy, it's always my kids." Yeah. You know? And that's what I want, you know, my kids being great people, that's what I wanted to be remembered for. Mm-hmm. But when it came to business, it wasn't my name on the door. I said, and I, I asked him, I said, "I got a great question for you. Who started IBM?" Mm. And he looked at me just dazed, like, I don't know, and I said, huge company, founders, and nobody can tell you the legacy of the owner who started the company. And my dad worked there for, like, 40 years and-

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (07:05):

But it's still going, it's still affecting people, it's still helping, it's still doing so, yeah.

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (07:10):

Yeah. And I mean, you're, you're, the legacy of a business is a business- mm-hmm. ... is the business name. It's not the, your name, the founder. Yeah, they're on a painting somewhere in a back corner in a hallway that nobody ever looks at when they walk by a picture of a bunch of old people. <laugh> Yeah. You know, they just walk by them going, "Oh yeah, these are our founders, and these are the guys that start..." And nobody cares.

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (07:30):

Mm-hmm.

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (07:31):

And, you know, so I want my legacy to be in the aspect, if I'm not here tomorrow, people said, "Well, he helped me. " Yeah. "That's the guy I want to be. " And so it's really, what do I do? And so it has been, it's been sort of a toss because I've talked to investment bankers since I've been here. I've been talking to, you know, construction companies and looking at doing what I want to do and I love building, but then I've talked to a lot of ISPs and it's amazing, you know, "Well, what do you know about this? " And, you know, and I'll, we'll be eating lunch and I'll just, "Hey, well, call this guy or do this. " And, you know, and I said, or, "Here's my number. Give me a call- mm-hmm. ... and we'll go through this and, you know, and we'll just set up consulting and I'll just help consult for you for, you know, 100 hours or whatever." And it's what do you do?

(08:14):

I just, I, I honestly, it's weird in my life right now I don't know because there's almost too much opportunity and there's too many people that need to know where to go next. They, it, it's hard. It's a very hard industry right now. And you got bead coming in. I, I really worried about the bead guys because I think you got guy, companies that were running it, uh, that have used to, "Oh, we made a couple million a year of knife, nice lifestyle business. And we just got 120 million." <laugh>

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (08:42):

What do we do with that?

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (08:43):

Now what?

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (08:44):

Yeah.

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (08:44):

And I think there's so much confusion on what to do with BEAD so you're not bankrupt because you took all this money or you planned on these builds or you underbid it or whatever, you got to be looking at the future of how do you cash flow these. I mean, I always say internet service 101, it's not engineering, it's sales. You've got to sell the product because I, I, I've looked at so many companies over the last seven, eight years and it was amazing. It was like the first thing I've always asked is, well, they would tell me, "Oh, we got 20,000 passings and 15,000 miles of fiber." Well, how many subs you got? 800. And I'm like, "What? What are you doing?" This is, this is not a business. This is, this is a construction company.

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (09:28):

So do you think that a lot of these, especially the smaller ISPs is kind of what we're talking about are they, they understand the engineering side, but there's pieces missing. They need to understand some of the marketing side or the sales side or the customer service side even.

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (09:43):

Right. Well, it's, it's, it's about the customer. It's always about the sub. The, you know, in our industry right now, it's not about, you know, it's not about how much money you've spent, how much fiber you put in the ground. That, that does like long haul, you know, the middle mile stuff, that, yeah, that is all about what's in the ground. It's about who you're connecting to and how you can get connected from one location to another, but mainly it's about the sub that we ... When, in the M&A side, you don't look at how much money they've spent, you do look at their EBITDA, you do look at their cash flow, but you really look at how many subs they have.

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (10:14):

And sub you mean subscribers? Subscribers.

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (10:16):

And then, sorry, and yeah, sorry.

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (10:17):

I could say flux

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (10:18):

Capacitor here soon and see if I get anything.

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (10:20):

I know what that is. <laugh> That's, uh, uh, uh, that time travel maybe, uh- Yeah, all we

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (10:24):

Have to do is hit 88 miles per hour and we're doing well. <laugh> But it is, you know, when we look at companies and how we value them is based on subs. Mm-hmm. And we, you know, you can pay anywhere from, you know, WISP to, you know, a couple thousand maybe at the highest and fiber, you know, use probably lows sixes and sevens to, you know, Hotwire I think went for $23,000 a sub.

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (10:46):

Wow.

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (10:47):

I mean, but it's all based on that type of number. I, my guess is with Hotwire wasn't in the negotiations, you know, don't know how it all broke out. <laugh> But that's how it broke out when you did the math. But, you know, that was probably more on EBITDA because it was a large company. Mm-hmm.

(11:02):

But if you're a smaller company, they're just looking at how to take your subs and roll them into their business, you know, because they have an existing business, they want to roll them in and, you know, hate to say it, people do get laid off, they keep the best employees and they go for the next level, but they're trying to build up to the hot wire level so they get the payday at the end. You know, and I think that's what everybody's looking at, but if you're not selling to your customers, if you can't pay your debt, you don't have a business. Mm-hmm. And I've looked up too many that are just, I'm like seeing bankruptcy courts and I feel bad for these people because I've done it for five, 10, 15 years- mm-hmm. ... and they did really well in the beginning, but then they forgot or they just kept building, building, but, and the investors just kept dumping money into it thinking, "Oh, at some point they're going to sell to these 20,000, 30,000 passings." Mm-hmm.

(11:52):

And they don't do it and then the investor comes and takes the business and sells it off or brings in somebody to operate it.

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (11:57):

So you want to provide some of the solutions to help them deal with that landscape.

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (12:02):

That's one of the things I'm thinking.

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (12:03):

Mm-hmm.

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (12:03):

I, it, it really is looking at it going, how do you help this landscape and how do you make them better?

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (12:08):

And something you said at the start that I thought was very interesting, I don't want to gloss over is that you compared what could be happening in the next five years or so to Mobil that were larger ISPs by the smaller ISPs, uh, why do you think it's going to be that way?

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (12:23):

Cause it's always, that's, it's, this is not the first time we've done this.

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (12:26):

Mm-hmm.

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (12:27):

You know, AT&T, you know, CenturyLink or Lumen, Quantum, whatever they call themselves today, you know, Verizon, they always come back. They, they can't build fast enough. Mm-hmm. They, they just can't. I mean, uh, what was the number that 60 million that AT&T is going to try to get to by 2030? That's a very aggressive ... And, but that was what was said. That's the biggest number they've ever done. I mean, that is huge for them to actually do. So you really take a look at that number and going, "Okay, well, how do you get there?" Mm-hmm. "Do you build it or buy it? " Well, for them, they do both. They, they'll, but they don't want to buy the little mom and pops for one, 2,000 customers or 5,000 customers. They want to buy the hot wires of the world. Mm-hmm. They want to buy, hey, you got 100,000 subs, they're going to look at you.

(13:11):

They're going to, and they're going to make the best offers to buy you besides the, you know, the PE firms, you know, the BlackRock’s of the world that can afford it, you know, but you really look at that what they're doing is they will do this again. They, this, this is their washrooms and repeat. They, you guys go build, you go build the ones that we don't want to build right now, you go take the risk, you'll do the harder work and make it or not, we don't care. Mm-hmm. You know, if you're going to go bankrupt or you're making great money, we'll still buy it either out of the courts, make you a low ball offer, we'll make you a real offer because then we'll just roll it into our big, big conglomerate of a company and just m- monetize it and just make revenue and that's what they do and this doesn't change.

(13:54):

It, you know, everybody's like, "This is all new. Wild West, it's all different." No, this is like, what, the fourth, this is the fourth time we've done this. Mm-hmm. This isn't new. I mean, you know, I always love this, this is always the greatest thing to me. It's like, well, what we do is very technical. No, it's not. We build a head in, run some glass in the ground, run it to a CPE in the house, you know, not very tough. It's not, what we do is not tough. It's how we get the subscribers is what's tough. Mm-hmm. You know, because back in the day, you used to just throw an ad into, like, in Phoenix where I was at the time into new times with dial up, 1995, and my phone would ring off the hook. Mm-hmm.

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (14:28):

And

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (14:28):

The ad cost me like 200 bucks. Today, I'm doing door hangers. I got guys knocking doors, I'm doing Google ads, I'm doing Facebook, I'm doing all this marketing, and I can't guarantee anyone we're going to work, but back in the day, it was just, eh, pop up something, put a yard sign in front of my house. I got people sign up. <laugh> I mean, it was just, people say, "Who do you use for internet?" Me. Okay. Oh, oh, you do that. And, oh, here's my card, call my office, they'll hook you up. Mm-hmm. I mean, it was very simple. It's gotten harder a lot, but 1500 ISPs, you got competition.

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (15:00):

Yeah, that's some competition.

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (15:01):

You know, and I was in Phoenix. <laugh> We were a big market. Mm-hmm. And I think there were 300 ISPs in Phoenix at the time when I was there.

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (15:09):

Oh, wow.

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (15:09):

But there was everything from hosting to data center. We, everything was an ISP. Mm-hmm. Now the term ISP is so generalized to know it's fiber to the home or data centers or web hosting and, you know, but I, when I owned my ISP, uh, years ago we did everything. We had hosting, we had voice service, we did design work, database design. Mm-hmm. But we also lit up buildings and did dial up in DSL, you know, but so it, it's changing, pivoting, but it's still the same. Yeah.

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (15:37):

We

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (15:37):

Still run just a wire to a house. <laugh>

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (15:41):

So let's talk, before we started that, the interview, you said that you'd like to talk a little bit about the future of technology. So let's, let's delve into that. Where do you, where do you see things going? I know we talk AI is the big conversation, but where do you see that leading us?

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (15:55):

Well, in AI, I, you know, there are a couple of divisions that are really in, in corporations that I see some as some real fear for employees, um, uh, marketing. Marketing you can, you know, I, I do believe marketing is still needed because you-

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (16:11):

They can't do podcasts though.

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (16:12):

They

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (16:12):

Can't. <laugh> Just kidding. Maybe they can't.

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (16:16):

Give it time. Might be able to. But you look at like marketing. Uh-huh. Marketing, I still believe those people are needed. Mm-hmm. But you don't need a team of 20.

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (16:23):

Yeah.

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (16:23):

You, you can ma- maybe do this like two. Mm-hmm. I mean, that market's going to shrink because I mean, I built a website, now I've built websites for years. Mm-hmm. This is probably one of the best websites I've built in a long time. Why? I used AI to help me do the whole thing. Right. And I just, I said, "Hey, I need this and make me image day, da, da." I

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (16:43):

Slapped all together. Yeah. You can use AI to do your research, you could use AI to build you a strategy, a social calendar, you could use AI to, to do a budget, all of it. <laugh> You can

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (16:52):

Use AI to do customer service.

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (16:53):

Yeah, to do customers. Except for, I will say, and I've had these conversations with multiple people, if I call and I get an AI, I get really frustrated.

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (17:02):

Oh, so do I. <laugh> And that, that, I think that is,

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (17:04):

The

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (17:04):

Problem is, is-

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (17:05):

Maybe it's our high energy. <laugh>

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (17:07):

Well, I think we actually got used to press one- Oh yeah,

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (17:11):

Yeah. ... or, you know,

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (17:12):

Welcome to movie phone.

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (17:13):

Yeah. <laugh> You know,

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (17:14):

Press one to find a movie in your location. You know, I mean, but that's what, I mean, I think we got really those automated system, the auto attendance-

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (17:21):

Yes. ...

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (17:22):

We didn't like it.

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (17:23):

No, I hate it. And if you

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (17:24):

Actually I really get into a conversation with AI, if it's well done- mm-hmm. ... it can answer a lot of your questions.

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (17:30):

Yeah. Like- I have Cloud now. I've been using that and it's pretty awesome. I use Perplexity. Yeah. And

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (17:35):

I like that because it pulls from multiple AI systems.

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (17:37):

Yeah. I've been trying to, different kinds and exploring different kinds, so- I,

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (17:41):

I've used probably six or seven now.

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (17:42):

Yeah.

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (17:43):

And they're great. But so you, the, that side AI, I mean, you know, OSP design, I mean, there's a lot of designers down there and they're saying, "We're different, we're different." And I'm like going, "It's a map. We draw a line, literally follow electrical. It's not actually that tough." Mm-hmm. That is one that AI will take over, and it will, and I feel sorry for people. But-

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (18:02):

Do you see it as there'll be, though, that there'll be new opportunities that were created down the road that we don't even know about yet?

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (18:08):

100%. Mm-hmm. Cause now you're not waiting on the back office to get it done. Right. If I mentor quite a few kids, um, ranging from 18 to 35 years old. Mm-hmm. And I call them kids because yes, I'm old enough to be their parents. <laugh> And these aren't, oops, I had you with high school kids.

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (18:25):

I was about to check. Out of

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (18:26):

High school and I'm like, you know, it's sad when you get to that point and you realize you're that old But I, uh, you know, when you look at like AI and what it's going to take, construction, I tell these kids, look into construction. Go get, go, if you're over 21, go get, or whatever it takes in your, your state to get a CDL, go get your CDL and fiber splicing certificate. You will have a job tomorrow. I talked to like four guys down in there- mm-hmm. ... and I said, "How are you doing with fiber selects? We're always hiring." And they’ll start these kids and I'm saying 18, 19 years old that have fiber splicing experience, they'll start them at like 65 to 75,000 years-

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (19:05):

Oh, maybe I need to get a fiber splicing <laugh>.

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (19:08):

... for a few grand. I mean, it's not expensive. I mean, you'll have a job and most of those guys, you just say you want to be a fiber splicer, they'll train you and then you'll be up to 65, 75. It's a good job. You get a CDL, there's, you, you could be 100 to 125 at 23, 24 years old.

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (19:23):

Wow.

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (19:24):

I mean, it's real, real jobs. You know, like

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (19:27):

I said- And future proofed.

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (19:28):

But I like network engineering.

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (19:29):

Mm-hmm.

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (19:30):

It's not Gona be the network engineers are shifting. They're, those are some of the coders. Those guys are shifting the ones that are really ahead of the game. They're looking at how to be AI coders. They're looking at how to program AI to do what they want, you know, data lakes, customer service, uh, integrating finance, integrating to everything, uh, you know, OSP design, all this stuff, that's what's going to come around. I, we're not going to lose jobs. We're going to gain jobs. They, they, we don't have enough engineers still. Mm-hmm. And now you're throwing a whole new tech into them, they have to go learn. The upside is AI can help you learn it. Mm-hmm. So it's Gona create a whole new era of just jobs that we're going to be busy. I mean, we've got too much fiber to build in this world.

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (20:12):

Yeah. It's

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (20:12):

Still in our country. I mean, I love that, you know, bead is really for rural areas. Go look at the inner cities. They don't have fiber.

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (20:18):

Right.

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (20:19):

I mean, yeah, they're running on 200 mil cable or 500 meg cable, you know, I mean, I found a market that has DSL and two, 500 meg cable and I'm like, who are you kidding? <laugh> Yeah. I mean, the people don't like it and, you know, they're just like, "Well, why can't we get it? " Well, you're not getting bead money.

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (20:36):

Mm-hmm.

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (20:37):

Well, how do we get them? And that's where the PEs come into play. Mm-hmm. The private equity groups are really coming out and saying, "There's a lot of money to be spent out here." And the worst problem for, you know, smaller guys, it's like, you know, you go ask for like the big boys, they're like going, "Uh, you want 10 million?" No, we don't do that. <laugh> Uh, can you do 250? And they're like, no. <laugh>

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (21:00):

It's too much.

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (21:01):

No, I can't spend too it. And I, I always tell them, "Yeah, I can do that. I can spend 250." Yeah, can I get my whole team Ferraris? Yeah. So they get to the job sites really fast and then we'll have trucks on site they can drive around and they're just like, "No." Well, I said, "Well, you want me to spend that money, that's how I can do it.

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (21:16):

" Yeah.

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (21:16):

But that's where I really do see AI and tech and tech for like in the field, I mean, GPON's going to change again. Mm-hmm. I mean,

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (21:24):

We

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (21:24):

Went to X, you could go to 25. I think we skipped 25 altogether. I think we go straight to 50, but we don't need it for residential right now. We won't need that. I never need that for residential in my lifetime. Yeah. I just don't see, unless, I mean, AI is pulling bandwidth, but it's still not pulling that much. Mm-hmm. I mean, we don’t really use as much as we think. It's just nice to have better speeds and things like that. Yeah. I- it's really great.

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (21:50):

<laugh> You've got so much energy. It's hard to keep up sometimes. You should have your own podcast. Let me just say this. You should do and bring me on as a guest and and have like the latest thoughts with Scott Sampson or something because you always have insight and thoughts about where things are moving and how they're moving and you move at light speed, let me tell you. So- I,

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (22:11):

A lot of people look at me and go, "How do you do everything you do in a day?"

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (22:14):

Yeah, I find myself when you're talking, I'm just like, "Oh, okay, yeah." I,

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (22:17):

I go to bed at two o'clock in the morning and wake up at five.

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (22:20):

It's-

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (22:20):

So I don't sleep.

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (22:21):

Yeah.

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (22:21):

Um, actually a lot of my employees, when I was at Fiber Fast, thought they would always joke and say, "So when you sleep in a hotel, do you sleep hanging from your feet?" <laugh> And I'm like going, "You think I'm a vampire?" That, thank you, I appreciate that. Uh, except I'm not a blood sucking leech. <laugh>

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (22:37):

Now we-

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (22:38):

I did want to bring up, you know, I talked about the podcast, or not the podcast, the, the panel I was on yesterday,

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (22:42):

Gaming. Oh yeah. How did that go? I,

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (22:44):

I, you know, it's funny, I went in I don't think as positive as I should have, but I have to say it was a great, great

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (22:52):

Day. How, what was the big takeaway?

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (22:54):

Well, it, we really, uh, gaming was only probably about 10, 15% of the conversation. Ah. I mean, it really what catapulted talking about customer service and customer interaction and churn and things like that and how to make more revenue. And I actually really did enjoy it. I mean, the conversation was really good. We had great questions from, I mean, I probably had 30 or 40 people there. I mean, I was actually impressed with how many people were in the room because I thought gaming, most of these people are not young and they am not, they're not playing on their Xbox when they go home. <laugh> So I was like, I don't think this is going to be for this audience, but I wish they would have sold it a little more about latency and jitter. Yeah, I

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (23:35):

Was going to say because gaming latency is a huge thing for it,

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (23:37):

Right? Well, it's more actually jitter is what it's about. Jitter is actually what latency average is off of. Uh-huh. It's the speeds as they fluctuate up and down. And so that's where they really, we got into that conversation and how do you make the customer experience? You know, a lot of ISPs, a lot of the big boys sell, oh, we sell five gig, we sell 10 gig, we sell all these fast, fast pipes, but that's not really much faster than a one gig. Yeah. If they have one gig that has better jitter and lower latency, then they're better than the five gig. I used to do that back in the day. Uh-huh. I used to sell it that way to my data center that I had in Phoenix. We had a data center, and we had multiple carriers coming in and if you came into my network, my latency was sub 20.

(24:24):

I mean, and it was very consistent. We kept an eye on that with QOS, kept the speeds really fast. Now, I have to admit, a lot of T1s that for those people that don't know what a T1 is, that's 250 minutes or yeah, it's not, not, not 250. Geez, I'm losing my mind so long. <laugh> Oh.

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (24:43):

But you were talking yesterday about how you would beat these other people at gaming because you had the low latest <laugh>. Oh

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (24:51):

Yeah. Oh, that, that was always fun because yeah, but they went-

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (24:54):

Back in the day. I worked for a

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (24:54):

Company called Speed Choice.

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (24:56):

Yeah. We were

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (24:56):

Point to multipoint wireless company and I got seven meg at my house

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (25:01):

And I- So you would win all those games because- Oh,

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (25:03):

I mean, I would just watch people, and you'd see them literally jitter- Uh-huh <affirmative>

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (25:07):

Around

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (25:08):

And I'm like sitting there with a gun in their face going, "He will look at me by the time I shoot him." <laugh> Yeah. And I would just laugh and, but I got kicked off servers because they thought I was cheating.

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (25:16):

Oh. And

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (25:17):

I'm like, "I'm not cheating because I got better internet

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (25:19):

Then you. " Yeah, that's not your fault. Yeah. You know, there's this crazy horror film from the 80s called The Jitters where it's like weird vampires that hop around. I don't know why I keep thinking about that <laugh> Probably because I have the jitters today because I do all these things. I mean, too much caffeine already. Yeah, too much caffeine. Yeah. Yeah. I want to make sure that I go down to the vendor hall. Yep. So I'm going to wrap up our interview today and let's go down there and check it out, but, uh, I would love to revisit it and I can't wait. When you figure out where you're landing, give me a call and let's do a follow-up interview and find out where you are and what you're doing because I would love to hear it.

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (25:51):

I doubt you know I will.

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (25:52):

Yeah. And

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (25:53):

I'll run into you at least two, three more

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (25:54):

Times this year. And you will, you will. And Scott, everyone's Scott Sampson with Powder Communications s. I encourage you to look him up. I'll have his LinkedIn on, in the description of this podcast. If you want to know anything about ISP, the broadband world, he's a great person to talk to.

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (26:08):

Thanks. I always love being here. Thanks,

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (26:09):

Justin. I love it.

Scott Sampson, Founder & CEO, Powder Communications  (26:10):

Okay.

Jessica Denson, Podcast Host (26:10):

Bye. I'll continue my coverage from Fiber Connect 2026 in upcoming episodes of the Connected Nation Podcast. Until then, I'm Jessica Denson and this is Connect to Nation. If you want to know more about us, head to connectednation.org and you can find our latest episodes on your favorite podcast platform.