Inside Golden State Politics

Covered California: Golden State Health Care Threatened

• Nancy Boyarsky

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Jessica Altman, executive director  of Covered Califormia, the state-based Obamacare marketplace, walks us through the current health care crisis.

host-4ha0_2_12-18-2025_133628:

Welcome to another episode of Inside Golden State Politics. I'm Bill Buki, former city editor and columnist for the Los Angeles Times, and with me is our producer director, Nancy Voki.

squadcaster-db8b_2_12-18-2025_133628:

I am Sherry Bibb, Jeffy political analyst and self-styled, medium even coming to you from struggling to put together an inside Golden State politics naughty list and a nice list to help Santa this year. When I realized that there isn't enough coal in this whole wide world to fill the stockings of each and every naughty I gave up. Happy holidays everybody. You are all on our nice list and over to you, bill.

host-4ha0_2_12-18-2025_133628:

Right. Bless you all our guest is Jessica Altman, who's the executive Director of Covered California, which implements Obamacare in this state we were the first state to, implement, Obamacare. Jessica, you've got your, finger on this whole healthcare quandary, miss,

squadcaster-db8b_2_12-18-2025_133628:

I say shenanigans.

host-4ha0_2_12-18-2025_133628:

Shenanigans. first of all, let's, let's give our listeners a, an idea of the extent of it. How many Californians are covered by covered California or Obamacare?

jessica-altman--she-her-_2_12-18-2025_133628:

It's a great starting point. And hi everyone. Thank you for having me. I'm very proud to be on Sherry's Nice list here today with all of you. yeah. So, cover California, right? We are the Obamacare health insurance marketplace. We provide health insurance to anyone that needs to buy it for themselves and their families. last year we, we smashed through our record enrollment and today sit at just under 2 million people in the state of California who are enrolled in covered California plans. It's also important to think about the way that Covered California operates. We often. Cover PE people for a period of time in between jobs while they start a small business, drop into the gig economy, go part-time, right? Many of these circumstances that are temporary. And so we've actually covered one in six Californians estimated since we opened our doors, just over a decade ago. And so it's obviously about the people we cover today, but this is also about the health and the, and the options that we have in our health insurance system more broadly going forward.

host-4ha0_2_12-18-2025_133628:

Suppose I, decide to change jobs or I, I get fired from my job and have to go into the gig economy. how do I get covered by covered California?

jessica-altman--she-her-_2_12-18-2025_133628:

Yeah, I mean this is, this is what we're here to do. This is why we exist. you can come to Covered California. We help you enroll really however you want to. So you can do the whole thing online@coveredca.com. You can call us and do it over the phone, and then we actually have. Over 14,000 enrollment partners. These are Californians across the state in clinics, insurance agents, community organizations who are there to help you answer your questions, navigate all of this to health insurance craziness and enroll. And they're, they're in communities across the state. They speak well over 40 languages so they can provide in-language support, right? We're really trying to meet Californians where they are and help them enroll.

squadcaster-db8b_2_12-18-2025_133628:

Well, Jennifer, let's talk a bit about the clash or the synergy between what we're doing here in California, California covered, and the debate. That's roiling Washington. What happens to, to cover California? Where are you given the debate, given that it's not yet been settled, given that you, you don't even really know, will you be able to maintain if and when the extended subsidies that were implemented during the COVID pandemic. Because the Republicans swear they're not gonna vote for anything that has those extended subsidies, and the Democrats are swearing. We're not gonna vote for anything. It doesn't have it. What does that do to you? What happens?

jessica-altman--she-her-_2_12-18-2025_133628:

So I think it's, it's helpful to start with just like the nuts and bolts of, what are we talking about here? These. These enhanced tax credits did, did two things. They, they took the people already receiving tax credits under the original sort of design of Obamacare and made them more generous. And there used to be this cap on income of, of who can get a tax credit and who can't, and they got rid of that cap and instead said. No one should pay more than 8.5% of their income on health insurance. And a whole bunch of middle income consumers we're talking an individual making 65,$70,000 a year, got tax credits for the first time. And so when you think about. Those enhancements expiring, the impact is felt really differently. So you have some people who are going to still be eligible for a tax credit, but it will be less generous. And then you have those people at what we call the cliff, that middle income level. Who are gonna lose their tax credit altogether to go back in time. we have grown from about a million and a half people enrolled in California again to close to 2 million, largely propelled by these enhanced tax credits. And so if you think about the impact of the expiration, we are expecting, that we could lose as many as 400,000 people effectively because their. They're priced out of coverage by this decision coming from the federal government. Now we're doing everything that we can do here as you sort of put forward. Sherry in California, we believe every single person in our state deserves access to affordable quality health insurance, and that job is harder when the federal government is working and moving things the other way. But our goals are still the same. So we do have some funding from the state budget to try and mitigate. Some of this impact, it's not nearly as much money as we're gonna lose, from, from the federal government if these enhanced tax credits stay, stay expired. But we're deploying that to help some people stay covered. and then right. We're a marketplace. And, and there are, most people can save money by shopping and thinking about what plan they're enrolled with and thinking about the trade-offs between the plan they may have today and plans that may come. With a lower monthly price tag and, and that's the complicated effort we're in the middle of, and that's all. Assuming Congress doesn't act to extend them, which of course I'm not saying it looks good, but they still could.

squadcaster-db8b_2_12-18-2025_133628:

Well, that's what I would call your plan B. Is that correct?

jessica-altman--she-her-_2_12-18-2025_133628:

I had love for that to be Plan A, but, we, we are ready. I mean, if Congress acts to deliver the enhanced tax credits or something similar, we will move any mountain to as quickly as we can deliver that greater affordability to to Californians.

squadcaster-db8b_2_12-18-2025_133628:

Yeah, but California has a humongous budget deficit. How does that play out?

jessica-altman--she-her-_2_12-18-2025_133628:

Yeah. I mean, and you can't, I mean, that is true. and then you can't really, as you think about this in the long term, separate covered California and the enhanced tax credits from other. Federal changes, other federal impacts in particular, the so-called one big beautiful bill act in the coming years will bring really large cuts to to Medi-Cal. And so we're looking at a situation where the federal government is giving a lot less money to states in general, particularly to core social services like healthcare and then also food assistance. And that's gonna mean a lot more people going uninsured. And to your point, I hear a lot. Well, can't California fill this hole? And the answer is, well, right now there, there isn't enough money to to do that. and that's a really hard conversation to have here in California. I think we have the right people and all the right goals, and all the right intents and all the right minds, but the federal government really is making our job very hard right now.

host-4ha0_2_12-18-2025_133628:

What can, Congress do to, keep the costs of medical care manageable?

jessica-altman--she-her-_2_12-18-2025_133628:

So in the short term with these, you know, headlines about skyrocketing premiums and what we've talked about today, what they really need to do. Is extend the enhanced premium tax credits. I mean, we are two weeks away from coverage starting and, and next month people starting to get their bills for the first month's premium. So the only thing they can do in the immediate to prevent the impacts of that is extend the enhanced premium tax credits. Now we need to have, and I think we are having here, here in California and could be more having nationally a conversation about how do we actually. Get healthcare costs, lower, get premiums, lower stop healthcare costs from rising unsustainably. Those are big, important complex conversations. But honestly, pulling a bunch of people out of coverage is not only a distraction, it makes it harder to have those conversations about lowering healthcare costs in these broader systemic ways.

squadcaster-db8b_2_12-18-2025_133628:

Why haven't we had them yet? I mean, we, we could see that healthcare costs were rising dramatically, but at least in terms of the feds speaking with the states, there's really been very little movement.

jessica-altman--she-her-_2_12-18-2025_133628:

Well, I, I actually would disagree with you, at least here in California, Sherry. I mean, in recent years, we saw landmark legislation to create the California Office of Healthcare Affordability. Who's very in charge is to look at how healthcare costs are growing in the state of California. Measure it. Hold health plans and providers and hospitals accountable and look to stem the growth in healthcare costs, as well as other policies like creating our own insulin that comes at a, at a lower cost and leading the nation in those ways. Now, I'm not saying that's that's all that we need to do, but we are moving down the pathway of those conversations and policies and creating an infrastructure to oversee that that is new and, and is nation leading here in California.

squadcaster-db8b_2_12-18-2025_133628:

Well, and it is a state program,

jessica-altman--she-her-_2_12-18-2025_133628:

That that is the California Office of Healthcare

squadcaster-db8b_2_12-18-2025_133628:

you go. Yes. And we are an independent marketplace under a CA. Are we? So, I mean, I just, I worry this. The first, the first opposition to a CA came just federally. As soon as that law was passed, that's what, 15 years ago.

jessica-altman--she-her-_2_12-18-2025_133628:

Yeah, I mean, I've been working on the Affordable Care Act since before it was called the Affordable Care Act. I was at federal HHS doing implementation as soon as the law was passed. I don't think there have been more political ups and downs and winds of change related to a federal healthcare law than than the Affordable Care Act. What I will say is. Even over doing this for, for 15 years, as you say, there's not been a time when consumers were so caught in the middle like they are during this open enrollment where they are trying to make real decisions, big decisions about their health care, how they work, how they can get their health insurance, and Congress hasn't given a final answer on such a. Fundamental thing. And so this is a particularly maybe even the most challenging open enrollment that that I've been through in that time.

host-4ha0_2_12-18-2025_133628:

Jessica, what's going to happen then is, in the next few weeks, people are going to get. Their new insurance bills, right? How much they're gonna have to pay.

jessica-altman--she-her-_2_12-18-2025_133628:

So we've told them how much they're gonna have to pay. We actually started, talking to our consumers back in, in June or July because we didn't want them to be surprised, but they have not actually received the bill or paid the check, if you will. and so that will happen throughout the month of January as our insurance companies send those bills to the consumers. And that is a pivotal moment in, in this conversation and in seeing how consumers will react to these changes.

squadcaster-db8b_2_12-18-2025_133628:

I've just read about a new, I guess it's a state implemented organization that will sort of get states in our region together. To work on these problems, to do some healthcare care, rethinking and reform. Can you tell, tell me a little bit about that and what it says. I mean, it really, it seems to me ironically that in pushing so hard in Washington, to pull away states, right? are destroying one of their foundational, ideas.

jessica-altman--she-her-_2_12-18-2025_133628:

Yeah, I mean, I'm not sure exactly, there could actually be a few things that you're talking about there, so I'm not quite sure how to respond specifically to this. You mean the, the Western Health Alliance.

squadcaster-db8b_2_12-18-2025_133628:

Yes, the Western

jessica-altman--she-her-_2_12-18-2025_133628:

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so, so one of the things that we're seeing really actually gets to, to a more fundamental question of what healthcare should people get. and a lot of our system is built around what have been historically national recommendations provided or facilitated by the federal government that say, Hey. These are the vaccines your children should get. These are the vaccines you should get. These are the preventive services you should get. And then the laws are built to translate that into insurance coverage. So for example, under the a CA, health plans have to cover nationally recommended preventive services at no cost to the patient. Well, if the national recommendations change. Your insurance coverage changes. And so as we've seen, particularly Secretary Kennedy in Washington, these new, bodies, he's pulling together or changing the people who are on these bodies that make these recommendations that aren't necessarily aligned with the consensus of the medical and scientific communities, that can create access issues. So, so the state of California in concert with our partners in other states, in the Western, in the Western, Coast have put together this alliance to say we're gonna make our own recommendations. And then California has passed its own laws saying, and we're gonna make sure that translates to insurance coverage. So then I can go to, to my 2 million enrollees, as can others, and say, yes, your health plan will continue to cover at no cost to you. All of the vaccines that are best recommended by the medical and scientific communities. so you can access those services and not worry about cost barriers.

squadcaster-db8b_2_12-18-2025_133628:

You mean Bobby Junior can't throw a monkey wrench into the whole situation. It's beyond his authority to have you function, which I think sounds very well.

jessica-altman--she-her-_2_12-18-2025_133628:

I mean, insurance is still a state regulated industry for the most part. So there is a lot of autonomy for states to set rules that govern insurance. Now, the a CA. Through some, some complications into that and ways that the federal government is sort of setting the baseline. But as of today, we can, and we are doing these things in California.

host-4ha0_2_12-18-2025_133628:

What you, you thought about, go ahead, Sherry.

squadcaster-db8b_2_12-18-2025_133628:

No, I was just gonna say it's a mess and I'm, I'm sitting here thinking it's hard for me to comprehend, and I've done some research on it. How do you communicate what is happening, what's going to happening, and how it's going to impact the individual? Who has the, a premium and, and the tiered premiums of a CA and and covered California. I'm very frustrated. What do you think Jessica?

jessica-altman--she-her-_2_12-18-2025_133628:

I mean it, it is very frustrating. The only thing I can say to that is. We are really honestly obsessed with how we best communicate to Californians about these things, and we thought really hard about when, what messages do our consumers need to hear? When do they need to hear them? Who are the best messengers? This is why I mentioned earlier, we started this conversation back in July with our members and we sent them a communication that said. You know, things could change because Congress has this decision to make and we don't yet know what they will decide, but we want you to understand your costs, and we really broke down for them, tailored to their individual situation. Here's what the insurance company is charging. Here's the tax credit that you're receiving. Here's how much of it is enhanced and how much of it isn't. And therefore, here's what's on the line for you. and then we come to open enrollment. They get a very tailored notice that says, here's the plan you're in. Here's how the cost is changing and why. Here's another option that's available to you that has a lower price point. Really trying to get Outlook, these headlines. Are really scary and I understand that, you know, premiums are skyr and premiums are doubling. but the individual circumstance is quite varied, especially in a state that has some of our own dollars to put forward here. And so it's so critical as best as we can to get people to take the time to say, what is my option and my cost? What is my family's options and our family's cost? and get out of the noise.

host-4ha0_2_12-18-2025_133628:

You know, I've, spent a, a, a, a bit of time, in community, health centers, that provide for the poor. St. John's is one I, they're all over the, the Southland, one that, Sherry's associated with, the Venice family. Clinic, which is does a, has for years done a marvelous job. And I've always been struck since I, I started going there to do my reporting at the changes that, Obamacare has made. For instance, I go over there and, there's a room where there's a dentist now, there wasn't a dentist that before, you know, specialists coming in. It's made a, a tremendous change in, medical care for, all kinds of angelenos, from poor to, to the more affluent. Can you talk a little bit about, how it's changed? How has it improved? What more do you have to do?

jessica-altman--she-her-_2_12-18-2025_133628:

I mean, we really, we do focus so much on the problems and the things that we have to fix in healthcare, and there are plenty of them, and we've talked about them today. But I do really appreciate this question because we have also made a lot of progress. And if you go back to before the Affordable Care Act, we had an over 17% rate of uninsured Californians. we have lowered that number more than any other state in the nation, six since to around 6%. And that of course, impacted. That 17% of the people in our state who weren't necessarily getting the care they needed and deserve. But it also shaped the way our system operated, where we had to build a provider system through our safety net, like our qua, our qualified health centers through our hospitals and our emergency rooms to recognize that many of the people. Coming in the door would have an insurance plan that could pay and many people would come in the door without insurance and not be able to pay. And the revenue models, right. Were built around that and as our coverage system has gotten better and we brought that uninsured lower, that has changed. I mean, as I travel to clinics around the state, I hear things like, it used to be 15 to 20% of people coming in our doors were uninsured and it's. 4% or it's 5%. and what does that let those clinics do? Invest in things like dental care, invest in things like behavioral healthcare services, invest in these services, that have brought more care and better care, to, to our most vulnerable communities as well as more broadly. And I do have to say. even though I said we should stop not always talking about the bad things, that when you then have policies coming from the federal government that are gonna move things the other way, whether it's these tax credits. Or the Medi-Cal cuts from the one big beautiful bill act, that, that, that can, at least to a degree, that progress can be rolled back. And that's something we should all be watching all be worried about. And it also means that you are impacted by these changes, whether you're a covered California enrollee or a Medi-Cal enrollee, or you get coverage from your employer or Medicare in these broader ways that this flows through our system.

squadcaster-db8b_2_12-18-2025_133628:

Yeah, but the, the statistics seem to indicate that. there will be a return to a higher percentage of uninsured because if, and because the, the price, the premium becomes much higher. What that,

jessica-altman--she-her-_2_12-18-2025_133628:

Yeah, no, exactly. And so that's when you have, you're gonna see uninsured rates increase uncompensated care, which is the term of our, we use in healthcare for people without insurance who go to the ER anyway, but can't pay that bill. and then the providers. Really having to rethink their revenue stream, their services, how many providers can they have, right? This is how that flows through our system and into our communities in the way that it impacts. Impacts everyone.

host-4ha0_2_12-18-2025_133628:

So the person who is, now, dental care from,

squadcaster-db8b_2_12-18-2025_133628:

I may not.

host-4ha0_2_12-18-2025_133628:

in his family clinic, and has been for, you know, some time. The impact on that person and that person's folks will be, they won't be getting that dental care, right?

jessica-altman--she-her-_2_12-18-2025_133628:

Yeah, I mean, I would never say what, what an individual clinic is gonna experience I definitely think there will be provi. I mean, there's been a lot of talk about will rural hospitals have to close, right? So, so there's that, but there's a lot of things in the middle of that, of Will, will a, a clinic or a hospital say, I have to reduce how many, providers and how many doctors I have and not be able to see as many patients. Or maybe that in order to stay open, I can no longer offer behavioral health or dental care. Right? These, these are how, the, the really. Less federal dollars flowing into the system will manifest in terms of reduced access over time.

host-4ha0_2_12-18-2025_133628:

What kind of people are, covered California, who do you cover? I mean, are they the very poor? I think there's a feeling that, oh, well this is something for poor people that really doesn't concern, middle class me, who's covered who's, who's affected?

jessica-altman--she-her-_2_12-18-2025_133628:

Yeah, so we, we don't have an income cap, on covered California. So we cover people just above eligibility for Medi-Cal. That's an individual making about$25,000 a year in income for an adult, up to, to anybody. It's just that the tax credits, the financial support, are available on a sliding scale. So the more you need, the more you get. And we have people who are enrolled and make enough money that they don't receive a tax credit, right? So we really are for everybody, but we're more for people who don't have access to health insurance from another source. People who generally speaking, are working, they're earning income, but they're working in a way that they don't have the privilege of an employer. Offering them stable benefits and stable health insurance. So one in four of our enrollees are sole proprietors, right operating their own business. Half of marketplace enrollees are small business affiliated across the country. More than one in four farmers and agricultural workers in the United States use the marketplace for their health insurance. We're talking about the gig economy. We're talking about. freelancers and, and people in Los Angeles who are in the arts, we're talking about hairdressers. Truckers. These are the types of people that look to covered California, for their coverage because they have the economic freedom to work the way they want or need to work and still have affordable health insurance. While we have a thriving and affordable health insurance marketplace here in California.

squadcaster-db8b_2_12-18-2025_133628:

And it sounds to me, and from reading that many of these people, not only in California but nationally are. Significantly in red states are significantly, Republican voters. But it doesn't seem to me that there is an outcry large enough at this point in time that that becomes something that, the Republican Conference realizes and moves to calm down. Where is the opposition to destroying all of this out in the hustings, shall we

host-4ha0_2_12-18-2025_133628:

Where's the pro Obamacare people? Why don't we hear from them?

jessica-altman--she-her-_2_12-18-2025_133628:

Well, so I hear, well, I hear from the pro Obamacare people all the time. You know, it is interesting, what you said about red states and or Republican states. and what has happened is under the a CA, ultimately after the Supreme Court weighed in, states had a choice of whether they were going to expand their Medicaid program, what we call Medi-Cal here in California or not. We of course, did here in California. Most states have. and then you have people up to a certain income level who are on Medicaid, but there are a handful of states that haven't including Texas. Florida, right? Some of the largest, more Republican states. And so there you have this whole swath of even lower income people we're talking people between like 15 and$25,000 a year in income for an individual who in California are on Medi-Cal, but in Texas and Florida, they're on the marketplace. And so that's why you see more people, in these more Republican states and how that's flowed through to this policy. Now I, I do think it's. Not an accident, not, not many things in Washington these days see any bipartisanship at all. and while we haven't gotten something to the finish line, we have seen now in both the House and the Senate votes on these enhanced tax credits where Republicans have joined Democrats in voting to support. And I do think that speaks to the political dynamics to a recognition. Of the importance of healthcare and affordability and an issue that intertwines healthcare and affordability fundamentally in, in sort of the rhetoric of this country right now. but whether that will translate to anything actually being signed by President Trump, is very, very hard to say and even hard to see at this point.

squadcaster-db8b_2_12-18-2025_133628:

That's a good point.

host-4ha0_2_12-18-2025_133628:

tax credit, you mean a subsidy, don't you?

jessica-altman--she-her-_2_12-18-2025_133628:

They are technically tax credits. people call them subsidies, but they're actually tax credits. And the reason they're tax credits is it gets trued up when you file your taxes. So, you tell us what your income is going to be, we give you a tax credit based on what you told us your income is going to be. But if your income ended up being different, it does get trued up. So if you. If you actually made less than you told us, you'll get money back at tax time. If you made a little more, we gave you too much tax credit and you'll have to give, the balance, the balance back at tax time. So it is actually a tax credit.

host-4ha0_2_12-18-2025_133628:

Okay.

squadcaster-db8b_2_12-18-2025_133628:

It's hard to live in a republic democracy these days, isn't it? It's the voter. It's the citizen who has. A significant responsibility in just sort of maintaining ones head above water and all of this. And I, I want you, you use two words that I think are going to be extremely important in all of this, and it is, well, I guess it's three actually, if you don't wanna put health care together, but healthcare and affordability. And I think I see that as the only dynamic possible to get anything done that will be a positive move for, marketplaces for California. And I think for, the Obama Care Act. I also think that, I'm not sure that the Republicans are really wanting to reform as much as to just kill. Obamacare, how do you deal with that

jessica-altman--she-her-_2_12-18-2025_133628:

how do I deal with that?

squadcaster-db8b_2_12-18-2025_133628:

does the universe

jessica-altman--she-her-_2_12-18-2025_133628:

Yeah.

squadcaster-db8b_2_12-18-2025_133628:

of healthcare, state marketplaces and programs

host-4ha0_2_12-18-2025_133628:

How do you negotiate with, somebody whose only goal is to eliminate the program?

squadcaster-db8b_2_12-18-2025_133628:

that's,

jessica-altman--she-her-_2_12-18-2025_133628:

I mean, I mean thankfully I, I am not an elect. I'm not a politician, so I'm not the one negotiating. I, you know, my job is to. Put the impact and the, and the human story behind this front and center, and it really is too often lost, in, in the debates in Washington. I do think the Affordable Care Act has. Survived a lot, and a lot of challenges and a lot of ups and downs, and it can feel like three steps forward, two steps back, at times. but I'm hoping we'll, we'll soon be at the point where we can once again take three steps forward, but only time will tell.

squadcaster-db8b_2_12-18-2025_133628:

Well, I have to say, You have been a very valuable guest. I hope I, our, our listeners are pretty savvy, and I hope even beyond those of us who are political and policy geeks, people begin to understand how critical this debate is and how much is at stake for California and for covered California in what is going on now within the healthcare debate. Bill.

host-4ha0_2_12-18-2025_133628:

Since Obamacare was first hatched, I always thought that, one day it would become like social security, an untouchable part of government. do you think that that's true or. Was I just, you know, screaming.

jessica-altman--she-her-_2_12-18-2025_133628:

hope it's true. And I guess what I'll say is maybe as someone who's a bit, a bit jade, more jaded than your average. Right. when President Trump came to office the first time, he came in on a platform of I am going to. Appeal this law and it will be entirely gone. And today he came into office with a second term saying. We're gonna make changes and reform the law and even how that plays out and that a lot of the intent is the same. The fact that that change in the rhetoric and the intent, has happened just over eight years. I do think that's meaningful. I do think there is a recognition that this is baked into our healthcare system and that giving people. Something is much easier than taking it away. And public opinion has shifted a lot, a lot since the days when they were trying to do a full repeal. Now there are a lot of things that aren't called repeal, but have a lot of effects that are similar to what a repeal would do. And this is where policy makers, people who are out there in the public need to speak up and call out those things, so that we don't have repeal. By another name. and that is what we're watching for in this era.

squadcaster-db8b_2_12-18-2025_133628:

It's funny you should mention by another name because I, I don't think it's impossible that what comes out of this will be a compromise and it will be enough like the a CA that people won't scream and yell, but it will not be Obamacare. It will be Trump care. I think this is a movement for the president that is just as personal as it is political, and I don't expect you to defend me or him, but I'd like people to think about that.

jessica-altman--she-her-_2_12-18-2025_133628:

I don't care what the name is, if I can give people affordable, quality health insurance regardless of a preexisting condition. So that's what I'm here for. I'll let you work on the labels.

squadcaster-db8b_2_12-18-2025_133628:

Thanks a lot.

host-4ha0_2_12-18-2025_133628:

And thank you very much for, spending the time with us. This is, this has really been a

squadcaster-db8b_2_12-18-2025_133628:

Hi, Jessica. It's been great.

jessica-altman--she-her-_2_12-18-2025_133628:

It's been fun.

squadcaster-db8b_2_12-18-2025_133628:

Bye-bye everyone. Cheers.

host-4ha0_2_12-18-2025_133628:

bye-Bye.