Episode 33: The Magic of the Orphic Hymns with Ronnie Pontiac

In this episode, the esoteric scholar Ronnie Pontiac returns to talk about his latest book: The Magic of the Orphic Hymns: A New Translation for the Modern Mystic.

Co-authored by Tamra Lucid, his wife, this brilliant collaboration takes the reader on a winding journey through history, striking a perfect balance between dense scholarship and poetic musing. And they conclude with their own renditions of the hymns, beautifully distilled with poetic skill and the finesse of musicians. 

Reading this book feels like uncorking a dusty bottle of ancient spirits. The history is allowed to breathe, inviting you to swirl things around and develop your own taste for the mysteries of Orpheus. 

Tamra and Ronnie present the Orphic Hymns as being much more than beautiful relics. The hymns are magical, invoking the past as the eternal present and inspiring a prismatic vision of the divine. 

Many decades of research and experiments inspired The Magic of the Orphic Hymns. In their early 20’s, Tamra and Ronnie were mentored by the legendary, Manly P. Hall. And when they were asked to help him with a republication of the Orphic Hymns, they fell in love with these ancient rituals. 

In this interview, Ronnie and I discuss:

• How an OG episode of Star Trek inspired Ronnie’s first religious experience. 
• Why the Orphic Hymns have been called “the most powerful form of magic.”
• Personal stories of real magical results from the Orphic hymns. 
• How Aeolian Heart was born from an Orphic ritual
• How the magic of the Orphic Hymns gave birth to the Renaissance
• The Orphic Hymns and Marsilio Ficino.
• Orpheus with a thousand faces: a savior, hero, coward and narcissist
• Orpheus' underworld journey and its symbolism.
• Orpheus' legacy and impact on written history. 
• How Orpheus has always been countercultural 
• How Orpheus inspired Christianity 
• What Orphic initiates believed about death and the after-life.
• Why the phrase: “I am the child of earth and starry-heaven” is the password to eternity.

Enjoy! 

If you want to learn more about Tamra and Ronnie, please listen to my other interviews with them. 

Click here to listen to Tamra and I discuss her exquisite memoir, Making the Ordinary Extraordinary. 

Click here to listen to Ronnie discuss his epic tome: American Metaphysical Religion: Esoteric and Mystical Traditions of the New World

 

Transcript

• The magic of Orphic hymns and their translations. 0:02
  • Ronnie Pontiac discusses his book on the magic of Orphic hymns, including his own translations, with host Rachel.
• Greek mythology and Orphic hymns. 2:11
  • Ronnie shares their personal connection to Greek mythology, mentioning a book they found as a child that sparked their interest and a memorable episode of Star Trek that moved them.
  • Ronnie and their partner Tamar worked together on a project for Manley Hall, including a republication of the hymns of Orpheus, with Ronnie contributing minor design and blurb elements.
  • Translator Thomas Taylor's work inspired a movement in the US, and the speaker studied ancient Greek to better understand the original hymns.
  • Tamra and the speaker dismantled and reassembled ancient Greek hymns for Orphic rituals, incorporating prohibitions like no meat, beans, or intoxicants.
  • The rituals were a magical experience that left them with a lot to think about, blending art and spirituality in a new way.
• Mythology and spirituality with a focus on Orpheus. 8:53
  • Childhood fascination with Greek mythology led to spiritual practice incorporating ancient wisdom.
  • Rachel appreciates distilled, poetic translations of Orpheus myth with respect for original language and culture.
• The power of Orphic hymns and their relevance in modern times. 12:35
  • Rachel: Quality of translations was timeless, despite new research and cultural changes.
  • Ronnie: Liberties were taken with interpretations to create a unique artistic representation of the hymns, while still conveying their relevance and power.
  • Orfeo's hymns to Cosmo Demma deechi were the beginning of the Platonic Academy of Florence, where he taught about love and magic.
  • Ronnie discusses the idea of "magic" in the context of Orphic hymns, emphasizing the importance of aligning one's will with the divine wisdom of the gods.
  • The speaker highlights the difference between this type of magic and the idea of "wishing" for something, emphasizing the need for spiritual alignment and the manifestation of things through the will of the gods.
• Using ancient hymns for manifestation and serendipity. 19:24
  • Ronnie shares experiences of using hymns to manifest things, including a horned owl appearing during a ritual for Athena.
  • Rachel reflects on the power of hymns, mentioning serendipitous events that occurred during rituals, such as wind rattling shutters and people kissing underneath them.
• Astrology, manifestation, and career change. 21:39
  • Rachel discovered the Orphic Hymns and combined them with their knowledge of astrology, transforming their approach to healing and illness.
  • Rachel and their partner, Andre, used the hymns in their traditional translations and also wrote their own, inspired by the spirit and way of feeling they convey.
  • The speaker struggles with finding a full-time teaching job due to the implementation of Common Core, leading them to pursue a master's degree and eventually start writing astrology online.
  • Rewriting a spell to Mercury in Virgo, launching a career in astrology and teaching.
• Writing hymns and getting married. 28:25
  • Rachel and Ronnie discuss writing their own hymns to Aphrodite for their wedding ceremony, seeking the goddess's help in uniting their union.
  • Rachel shares their experience of following a specific formula when writing hymns, including praising the planet and condemning what is against it.
  • Friend offers honeymoon suite designed by him, then marries couple in park.
• Orpheus myth and its interpretation. 32:36
  • Orpheus's love story with Eurydice is retold, with a twist involving a beekeeper and vipers.
  • Orpheus' backward glance at Persephone as he leaves the underworld is the moment his destiny is born, marking the beginning of his career as a singer of sacred songs.
  • Orpheus' failure to resist the temptation of looking back at Persephone results in her return to the underworld, symbolizing the power of fate and the inevitability of loss.
• Orphic myths and their origins. 37:59
  • Orphic movement in Greece may have originated from similar ideas in ancient Egyptian funerary texts and pyramids.
  • Orpheus's role in Egyptian mythology may have been influenced by Greek mercenaries and philosophers.
• Orpheus and Eurydice myth and its interpretations. 41:42
  • Persephone and Eurydice are connected in early Greek versions of the Orpheus and Eurydice myth, with Persephone as the judge of the dead and a feminine goddess power saving Orpheus.
  • Artists, musicians, and philosophers in ancient Greece were fascinated by the idea of romantic love and the loss that occurs in human life, which they saw as similar to dancing and making music.
  • Ronnie discusses the myth of Orpheus and Eurydice, highlighting the reduction of Eurydice to a mere object and the blame placed on her for Orpheus' grief.
  • A writer named HD gives voice to Eurydice, revealing the narcissistic nature of Orpheus and the lack of empathy he shows towards her.
• Orpheus myth and its various interpretations. 49:09
  • Ronnie discusses how women poets in the 20th century reinvented the myth of Orpheus and Eurydice, with examples from Caroline Duffy's poem "Orpheus and Eurydice" and other poets' interpretations of the myth.
  • Ronnie highlights the creative and diverse ways in which poets have reimagined the myth, including a version where Eurydice is in control and another where she is driving around underground New York City in the 1960s.
  • Rachel finds Plato's perspective on Orpheus's cowardice amusing and insightful, highlighting the natural law foundation of antiquated philosophy.
  • Rachel and Ronnie discuss the various interpretations of Orpheus's myth, including Plato's view that he violated natural law by trying to break the laws of the underworld to be with his wife.
• Orpheus' legacy and the impact of written history. 54:49
  • Orpheus, grandson of memory, represents the leap of consciousness into externalized artificial memory, which allows for collective remembering but sacrifices living memory.
  • Hades is moved by Orpheus' song and agrees to allow him to take Eurydice back to the world of the living, symbolizing the power of art to transcend even death itself.
• Orpheus' underworld journey and its symbolism. 58:00
  • Rachel: Orpheus's journey to the underworld represents the struggle to remember and forget, with his wife Eurydice symbolizing the sacrifice of internal memory.
  • Ronnie: Tamar's interpretation sees Orpheus as the soul and Eurydice as the body, highlighting the tension between the desire to hold onto the past and the need to move forward.
  • Orpheus introduces a counterculture in ancient Greece, rejecting animal sacrifice and promoting vegetarianism and reincarnation.
  • Plato and Plutarch criticize itinerant priests who exploit grieving families for profit, but Orpheus' ideas about the afterlife are a significant departure from the mainstream culture of ancient Greece.
• Ancient Greek religion and mythology. 1:04:31
  • Ronnie argues that ancient Greeks believed in a more harmonious relationship with the gods, showcasing gratitude through acts of good deeds, songs, and offerings rather than sacrificial animals and wars.
  • The orphic mysteries offer the possibility of becoming a star in the heavens, with the soul or spirit of Apollo ruling life on earth and bringing order, light, justice, beauty, and harmony everywhere.
• Orpheus and his influence in culture. 1:07:13
  • Orpheus' teachings challenge societal norms by offering a path to cosmic consciousness after death, implying that those who embrace the mysteries are superior to those who do not.
  • The Orphic perspective is countercultural, with a sense of superiority towards those who prioritize worldly responsibilities and normalcy, while the Orphics believe they hold the keys to understanding life and death.
  • Orpheus' mythological influence on artists and philosophers throughout history, including Jim Morrison and Neil Gaiman.
• Mythical beings and their impact on society. 1:12:52
  • Ronnie discusses the power of hymns and Egregores, with some people viewing them as dangerous and others as sources of serendipity.
  • Ronnie discusses the concept of "demons" as signifiers with related images and ideas, and their impact on society.
• The connection between Christianity and ancient pagan beliefs. 1:16:20
  • The speaker reflects on the importance of oral tradition and the impact of written records on human memory and understanding.
  • Rachel & Ronnie  discuss the importance of personal Gnosis in understanding ancient deities and their relevance in modern times.
  • The speaker sees the Orphic current in Christianity as a way to tap into the Holy Spirit, which represents the unifying essence of spirit within everything.
  • The speaker believes that exploring the multiplicity of the imagination to understand the many tones, colors, faces, and qualities of the divine is in alignment with the real message of Christ.
• The unity of gods across cultures and time. 1:23:41
  • Rachel argues that the many gods and goddesses in ancient cultures are not separate entities, but different aspects of the same divinity seen through different times and places.
  • Rachel also notes that Christianity was influenced by Orphism, and that some have compared Jesus to Orpheus, highlighting the connections between different religious traditions.
• Spirituality, religion, and self-awareness. 1:26:53
  • Ronnie discusses the diversity of religious practices and beliefs, emphasizing the value of understanding different perspectives.
  • Ronnie references various religious traditions, including Christianity and Buddhism, and highlights the common goal of achieving enlightenment or salvation.
  • Ronnie discusses the importance of recognizing the lower soul's role in running the universe and maintaining health, while also acknowledging the higher soul's connection to the true self and unobstructed consciousness.
  • The speaker highlights the danger of forgetting the higher soul and becoming obsessed with death and violence, leading to a desire for escape and freedom from the body.
  • Transformation from fear of annihilation to wonder and appreciation of life as a miraculous co-creation.