Join me on a journey with Emmy-nominee Sonni Abatta as we unravel the media's influence! Get ready to challenge beliefs and embrace growth in this convo that dives deep into the power of media to 'trigger' us. This isn't just talk; it's a toolkit for building mental resilience in the digital age. Tune in to this lesson in learn to navigate personal beliefs in the public realm! From a neutral journalist to a media figure, Sonni shares her journey expressing stances amidst diverse perspectives. We break down cancel culture and dive into the difference between accountability and respectful, constructive conversation. Let's dive into a convo focused on growing empathy, understanding, and open hearts flourish, even in the face of differences.
Sonni Abatta has been featured in publications such as People, DailyMail, and Good Morning America. She’s hosted a panel on Mom 2.0 . You can find her podcast, We Gotta Talk, with guest interviews from Taylor Stecker from Taste of Taylor, Emma Dunwoody from The Human Design, Kate Talbert, and Dr. Carrie Jones!
Sonni's IG:
@sonniabatta
You can watch the full episodes on our Youtube
Youtube - Confessionsofawannabeitgirl
Confessions of A Wannabe It Girl’s TikTok:
@wannabeitgirlpodcast
Confessions of A Wannabe It Girl’s IG:
@confessionsofawannabeitgirl
Join me on a journey with Emmy-nominee Sonni Abatta as we unravel the media's influence! Get ready to challenge beliefs and embrace growth in this convo that dives deep into the power of media to 'trigger' us. This isn't just talk; it's a toolkit for building mental resilience in the digital age. Tune in to this lesson in learn to navigate personal beliefs in the public realm! From a neutral journalist to a media figure, Sonni shares her journey expressing stances amidst diverse perspectives. We break down cancel culture and dive into the difference between accountability and respectful, constructive conversation. Let's dive into a convo focused on growing empathy, understanding, and open hearts flourish, even in the face of differences.
Sonni Abatta has been featured in publications such as People, DailyMail, and Good Morning America. She’s hosted a panel on Mom 2.0 . You can find her podcast, We Gotta Talk, with guest interviews from Taylor Stecker from Taste of Taylor, Emma Dunwoody from The Human Design, Kate Talbert, and Dr. Carrie Jones!
Sonni's IG:
@sonniabatta
You can watch the full episodes on our Youtube
Youtube - Confessionsofawannabeitgirl
Confessions of A Wannabe It Girl’s TikTok:
@wannabeitgirlpodcast
Confessions of A Wannabe It Girl’s IG:
@confessionsofawannabeitgirl
Hi guys and welcome back to Confessions of a Wanna Be it Girl. In Wanna Be it Girl fashion, we are diving into a common term that we throw around these days, which is I am so triggered. There is so much weight around this conversation of being triggered, triggering people. Honestly, it goes on and on and in this conversation we are joined by Sunny, an Emmy nominated and AP award-winning journalist with 15 years of experience as a TV anchor and reporter, a lifestyle and mommy blogger and the host of we Gotta Talk podcast. In this episode, as I said, we're talking about being triggered, why we get so triggered, what that says about ourselves, what does that say about, maybe, the culture? At this point, we touch on cancel culture and we talk about really how to share our views, respectfully, opening the door to hearing other people's views. So let's dive in.
Speaker 1:Welcome to Confessions of a Wanna Be it Girl. I'm your host, marley Fraging, and I'm here to help you filter out all the bullshit and become the next thick girl. This podcast explores the reality of what it really takes to make it out there. As it turns out, it is way less Instagram-able than I thought it was going to be. I'm still very much a work in progress, but there's simply nothing else I'd rather be doing than chasing my dreams. So let's learn from my mistakes and work together to achieve our dreams with more confidence, clarity and direction. Let's get after it All right.
Speaker 1:Well, I am so excited to dive in to this topic with you, and this can be kind of a topic that is interesting because we're talking about being triggered, and so do you have a unique background, and that's why I think you can handle this topic so well. I mean, you've worked as a newscaster, you are a mom, you are a podcaster, you've been nominated for an Emmy, so you really have a large scope of handling uncomfortable topics. And also, I'm sure, as a newscaster, you would hear things and be like I don't want to take this home with me, but I need to hear it or I have an opinion and it's part of not saying it. So why are we so triggered by media?
Speaker 2:We could talk about this for hours. Okay, well, let's start by saying that I do, especially having been a working journalist in TV for 15 years, and I consider myself a journalist still, even in the digital space, which I've been in for like seven and a half-ish years. The role of good journalism is so important, and the thing about it, too, is, like you said, you really can't sugarcoat life, which is essentially what news is right, it's the best and the worst, it's keeping track of things, it's asking questions that need to be asked when things seem to be going wrong, and so I think my job gave me that unique perspective of being able to expose myself to different opinions, to truly live outside of an echo chamber, because it was my job for so long to interview, respectfully and professionally, people that I just really didn't agree with or understand a lot. I can remember doing tons of interviews with politicians that stood for things that I personally would not vote for, I personally would not support at the ballot, and what I learned is that when I was challenged to defend my own beliefs and in that case I was just defending them internally, because I would never unprofessionally I could ask them challenging questions, but I could never present my opinion in an unprofessional way when I was working as a professional. It taught me number one, that and this is a little glass half full, but bear with me we do have so much more in common than we do differently like as humans. Right, if we're taking it down to that level.
Speaker 2:And number two even if, at the end of the day, I'm not listing the same exact set of beliefs on my whatever list of priorities that you are, it's important for me to understand what my hypothetical opponents or philosophical opponents are thinking, because it helps me to affirm why I believe what I believe even more. And that's why, even on the podcast now, I seek out people whose opinions I don't always necessarily agree with, because we are all better for having our own beliefs challenged. We're forced to defend them, we're forced to stand stronger in them, and in rare cases people change their opinions. And how cool that we're at not for a difficult conversation that someone would never maybe have learned something that ends up benefiting them in some way or changing them in a way that they want to be changed. And so I mean when I say you know, you have to try to trigger yourself. I don't want people to.
Speaker 2:You know, scroll on social media and find they're like diametrically opposed. You know political representative and just like watch their content for two hours. But try to do a little bit of it. Try to watch the person you're not, you think you're not voting for. Or try to speak with someone in the other, on the other side of the political aisle.
Speaker 2:Or it can be as simple as speaking with someone who believes something differently than you, religiously and spiritually, and not with the goal of changing who you are, but helping you understand the world around you, because now more than ever, we're surrounded by people who have different belief systems, who have wildly different experiences, who've gotten to where they are in life in really different ways than us. And I think it's more important than ever to be able to interact with people respectfully and to not be the person that's always waving the like stop enough. Flag, like it. It's time to grow up, and I say that with love, because I was.
Speaker 2:I used to not be able to talk with people without like breaking out in a rash. You know and I didn't that I didn't fully agree with them, maybe not literally, but like getting so, and I realized the benefit that I got from seeking other opinions and beginning to engage with them respectfully and the growth that I saw and I just I think it's a gift to be able to do that. So I guess that's the basis of sort of one of the real big pillars of my podcast is just being able to be a better sort of global citizen in some way and have conversations, because not, we're all different, you know, at the end of the day, right?
Speaker 1:Well, and let's talk about what is media, because I mean, I think we used to say media and we'd say we'd mean television or we'd mean the newspaper, but now media spans to social media and Twitter and LinkedIn and all the things you know, where we are able to self publish, self share our own views and it's given us a lot to, you know, get up there and share, which I think is a maybe good and bad thing, you know, because we should maybe filter a little, but at the same time, I think you should be allowed to say whatever you want online and share. But why is there so many different, more mediums now affecting us? I feel like, you know, when I was a kid, we really were only maybe triggered by the news you know, and hearing about horrible things on your local news channel that are, you know, it felt very. I don't even think it was the word, but click baby for a new story, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, yeah, I know a pothole, it's just like it's just we murdered three people and you're like what, how's that happen?
Speaker 2:Why I must tune back. Yeah, you know, today's media calls on us to be more responsible than ever with our personal boundaries. Go have a burning story, and I wanted to tell you that that second day we did. What I think people are saying is that, speaking out for this, it is exactly what you said. It's both a blessing and a curse that we can access information from around the world in our fingertips, but it requires us to be and that's why remaining untriggered or accessing some of this information without feeling that physical reaction to it which ultimately is detrimental to your own health and well-being you have to set your personal boundaries with it and understand that the media you're consuming is not maybe not all of it's true. I hate that the burden is now on us more than ever, but I would rather the burden be on us than to be on the media companies. Right?
Speaker 2:I come from a traditional media world, so my background is in television journalism. I've covered everything from politics to business to health. I mean every type of interview that can be done. I have done presidential candidates and all the way down the line to local politics and sports and severe weather and trial. We did nonstop sort of court TV style coverage at the Casey Anthony trial and the George Zimmerman trial.
Speaker 2:And so I think, with the prevalence particularly of social media, the burden is on us to do several things. Number one try to expose yourself to other opinions. Number two understand that what you're getting might not be 100% accurate and then, if you feel strongly enough to have to go and sort of do your own research and look at that, it's easy for people to get on their phones and feel very strongly about something and put together a compelling reel or video that makes you think some sort of way. But if it's not based in fact, it's activating you in a direction that's sort of counterproductive in the end. So I think boundaries are really important and I know that's hard because all we want to do is mindlessly scroll, but I like to tell people just be aware of what you're consuming.
Speaker 2:Right, it used to be easy to tell what was opinion and what was news, because all the opinions if it was on after 7pm on a cable channel, it was opinion, and that was like the old fashioned way of it's, like when all the billow or eyelids or whoever come on. And now opinion is more infiltrated even in traditional media than it ever was before. It's very, very difficult to get a strict, straight source of news right, so that can either be really daunting or really emboldening. I choose to be emboldened by it and say, okay, I know what's out.
Speaker 2:There is really a wash in opinion now and it challenges me to seek out those objective sources as much as possible. And it can be as simple as if you're reading the New York Times, read the Wall Street Journal. If you're reading the Washington Post, read the exam. Like there are counterpoints, right, and I'm not saying you're going to get every opinion, but seeking out or even being aware that what you're reading might have a lean to it and trying to find its counterpoint out there and whatever space is helpful because all it'll do for you is make you a more educated citizen of the world, whether it's for voting or for just being a human, and that's not a bad thing.
Speaker 1:Okay, so I want to talk a little bit about social media, because I think triggering affects us in terms of the news all the way down to you seeing something on social media. You know, maybe it's the typical beautiful influencer who's well off. And how do we look at that information? Not be triggered by it and still, like you know, not need to tear that person down in our head or tear ourselves down for not being it, and like we're starting small, but like I think this applies to very big topics as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, that's all inner work, right, and one of the downsides of social media is that it makes things look really easy. But no matter how many restrict content restrictions we set or people we block or unfollow, there are always going to be things on our feed and in real life that are difficult or triggering or hard for us. And the benefit of it is that social media makes us see our weaknesses more than ever. It makes me really like when I look at something and I'm like, oh you know, I'm like, I look in the mirror for a second. I'm like what is making you feel some sort of way about this? Like, what is it in me?
Speaker 2:And so, again, using that trigger moment or that moment of annoyance, even like you said, something is innocuous, is following an influencer. That's like an aspiration. Like, what is it about me that makes me annoyed? When I see that girl in her like perfectly curated closet, it's probably it's on me. And so I and I say this even about kids in social media, I can, I can keep the phone away from my kids for 20 years, or I can tell them honey, what you see is not real.
Speaker 2:And let's talk about why. It's important for you to understand that none of this is real. I'm going to give you the. We're going to always have our phones. You're always going to be exposed to it. I'm always going to go outside and find someone who doesn't agree with me. What's important is that I feel foundationally strong in who I am and why I am how I am, that I can exist with those people and that when my kids scroll through or I scroll through, I can understand okay, this doesn't represent the whole picture. It's probably even filtered and even if not, god bless her. I hope she has a closet full of Louboutins.
Speaker 2:You know it's inner work and that's what's so funny about this is we're always looking for oh, what's Meta doing? Meta is like failing us because they're not having filter flags and we're seeing stuff. Well, do the work and remind yourself that what you're seeing is not we can't rely on. Technology is growing at a rate that we will never be able to keep up with. We, as the humans, need to have be the filter. We need to understand. What we're seeing could be AI, or is probably filtered, or might be misinformation.
Speaker 2:I hate that word, but let's use it. So the onus is on us now and it's scary, but it's empowering, and I think that's the attitude that I take as an individual. I use it as an opportunity to be like okay, sonny, check yourself for a minute. Do that work that makes you feel not, you know, annoyed or jealous, and to do that for our kids even too, because technology is not going to go anywhere. If anything, it's going to get more pervasive, and so, as a counterpart, we have to build up that human side to us right, that soul side, and be strong against it, for lack of a better word.
Speaker 1:It's, honestly, knowledge, knowledge of this, like you need to know, the knowledge of understanding what media is. You know we used to when I was, you know, in middle school or whatnot they would come and tell us that this was Photoshop, this ad, you know, this was removed and whatever. And you know they spent a lot of time explaining us about the world of advertisement. But now it's taking time to look at the world of social media and actually growing, maybe, your personal knowledge of understanding what goes into that being made, what does that look like and it. You know it's not so easy. Like I get triggered by social media on the daily and I love what you're saying about how it's, about looking at yourself and realizing why it's so you're so bothered by it. Because I think we hear the word triggered and we think like, oh, it's their fault that I'm I'm triggered, I'm bothered, but is it really more like it's my fault for being bothered by this?
Speaker 2:Right, I mean, and I hate that that's the case, because I do want to kick it right back and be like, no, it's on you, but it really is on us, and the cool part about that is that when you do that work, it benefits every part of your life and it has you show up as a stronger person in your relationships and a more affirmed person as an individual and, like you, you understand what you believe in and why. And I think the difference between our generation and generations past is that we just have much more opportunity to challenge ourselves than they ever did before. And it's hard, but it's also. It's also great, because now we know what we can do to grow.
Speaker 2:And you know, I try to take that approach to it because it's it's not going to change, and the thought of the world of deep fakes and AI and all of this very scary technology that's mimicking. I know right, that's like mimicking reality is, frankly, terrifying to me. And so it's like you control the controllables. So the only thing you can do is control the access that has to your core and and work on that. And it sounds so woo-woo, but really it ultimately comes down to that and by default, you become less triggered because you're working on yourself.
Speaker 1:I want to ask you how you would define the word triggered. It's so commonly thrown around these days. We kind of use it even like oh, that person cut me off, I'm so triggered, like it's very casual. How would you put words to being triggered? It really is.
Speaker 2:To me, being triggered is a visceral reaction we have to something someone is saying or even how they're existing in our space, and it can feel like that. It can feel physical, Like like your stomach is flipping and you just want to get out there and like defend yourself and be like wait, you're wrong because it can feel like that. Or it can feel like just what we said before, which is just like a ping of annoyance and just like, uh, you know that rolling your eyes kind of thing, yeah, and it's everywhere, Right, I mean, I'm not immune to it. I think what gives me the ability to recognize being triggered is having worked professionally in a space where all I did all day was interview people of every different belief system. So I learned how to control my reaction to people and I learned how to respectfully interact with people that I foundationally disagreed with and I saw the benefit from that. I saw how much better it was for me, for them. You begin to see in a broader picture and again, this is a little rose color glasses, but I believe this how that could even even impact policy. How great would it be if politicians could come together and focus on the things they agree on and use that as a foundation and build from there. I mean when I say this is a skill for life. It's for media, of course, and for anybody who's in this space and in this world, but it's it's for life.
Speaker 2:And the challenge we have with social media is that we can very easily live in an echo chamber where our belief system is validated and all we do is we search our little algorithm and it knows what to feed us. Sunny, you're thinking the right thing today. Look what a good person you are. And if you don't seek it out, you're living in essentially a false reality, because there's no 100% truth to anything.
Speaker 2:So while I always say I cover topics and do things to sort of not intentionally trigger but to expose people to different belief systems, it's not because I'm trying to change people and come over to my way of thinking, because listen, as much as I stand for both sides of an issue.
Speaker 2:I have very strong beliefs on many issues, but what people I hope will come to me for is being in a calm enough environment to hear someone out that they might not agree with and just hear them and understand them. You don't have to change your mind, you don't have to walk away a different person, you might have to vote differently or follow different social media accounts after you hear this interview, but what you're learning is that not every person who opposes you as a monster and there's a human behind it and they probably feel like they feel for a reason. And I'm still going to probably come back to a lot of my belief systems and that's okay, but it allows me to function better as a human with other people when I see what's in common rather than what's different.
Speaker 1:I love what you're saying about how we're kind of like broadening our community environment by looking at other things, because I remember when I was growing up I went to a middle school, high school that was very much the same thinking, like everybody's parents for the most part had the same political thinking, socially, very much thinking. And then when I went to college I was shocked to find out that was not the only way people thought and I was very confused because in my head I'm like these are bad people. I've never seen this. I never thought a university would have other people thinking this way and it was shocking and it is so similar to what we choose to consume, affecting what you see the world to be. As I love actually following other people that I don't agree with, just to see what they're saying, or at least watching the TikTok through, just to see it, that's a really good point.
Speaker 1:Just to see what's your point of view. I'd love to know. It's curiosity.
Speaker 2:It makes you itchy. Sometimes I'm like, oh, I don't want to watch this, but you do it and you're like, okay, and it either refirms you and helps you understand why you believe what you believe, or it opens you up to another point of view, and both of those are okay, thank you, and it's almost very interesting how you can vilify one side and then you are watching a TikTok and you're like wait, I actually like what you just said and I've never liked you before and I've thought you've said horrible things.
Speaker 1:It's flooring, I know, and, yeah, I think there's a lot more area in the gray.
Speaker 2:It's so it's such an emotional journey going on social media, isn't it great? Like I go on there and I'm following, you know, and I have unfollowed people. There have been people who have said things that have been so, so difficult for me to digest that I'm like even I can't handle this.
Speaker 2:But for the most, part my feed stays intact and sometimes I scroll through and I'm like like exhausted by the time I get to the end because I'm seeing so many things that are like this is like not at all what I think, and it's really hard and all I want to do is jump through the screen and be like, hey, but what about this? And maybe, and I, but you know, and it's important to have boundaries with it I would never advise someone who's like not feeling 100%, like mentally healthy, well, or 90%, you know, to go and Hard to ever.
Speaker 2:Right, I know right, maybe 50%, we'll take 50. But you know, I wouldn't say to make it a way of life where the only thing you're consuming are these. You know belief systems you disagree with, but you know the exercise of being present and understanding. I think trying to understand, I should say, only makes us better individuals, makes me a better journalist. It makes someone who's not in the space just a little more educated on something. Sometimes it's as simple as that.
Speaker 1:I wanted to ask you, like how you kind of, you know, manage your empathy and compassion and anger, like in these moments. You know, it's very often these days I feel like we are running into people that have different opinions and, you know, welcome that conversation with grace, but how do you control your emotions throughout it? It's not an easy scale, it's not.
Speaker 2:Years of forcing myself to engage in having to to earn a paycheck was a huge help, understanding that I don't have to betray who I am or how I spend my personal time advocating and being active in the community. Just, you know, I can do an interview and then, when I shot the microphone and professional Sunny is done, I still go out and support the causes I believe in and donate to them. Being a good, active, respectful listener and engager of conversation does not make me an inactive member of my community. So understanding that those things can coexist and it comes down to that foundational strength of knowing who you are Sounds so corny, but knowing who you are and, strangely enough, the more you engage with people, the more you begin to form who you are, and either it's someone providing you with information of what you don't want to be or represent, or someone who does, and it's life right. You go through, you take bits and pieces of what serves you emotionally, spiritually, professionally, and it all comes together and I listen. I have, really I have changed my mind on some big ticket topics, you know, over the course of my life, and I'm sure it'll happen again, and it wasn't because I stuck my head in the ground and was like I'm right, it's because I continued to engage with people and I just I think it's a gift I really do to be able to do that, and I say this quite a bit on my podcast, and I believe it to be true that there are people in the world who I call activators or agitators, like, in a positive sense, who's calling in life is to push the needle forward, to push the cart forward, right. That's where things like you know, civil rights movements come from and the American Revolution, right. Those are our activators, the founding fathers, like the people who push us.
Speaker 2:And then there are people who are the mediators or the peacemakers, and I have always just naturally fallen into more of a mediator.
Speaker 2:Let's understand both sides of an issue person, and I think part of this is just knowing who I am as a human. And so, while there is certainly space for people who consider themselves activists and activists, only my space in the world occupies more of an understander or the finding the common ground, and one can't exist without the other. Like if there were just a bunch of me's in the world, we would never, we would not do much right, we would, we would feel very validated and empathetic toward one another. But would much change? Maybe not, but if we were all activists and we were all pushing our agenda, and our agenda only, we wouldn't get far either. So the beauty of, I think, my show and the way that I try to approach some of this content is that it recognizes the need for both of these types of people in the world, and I think it's fun to discover new things together, whether or not people change in their minds.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's creating a space for a lot of openness that I think you know.
Speaker 1:Maybe we've been a little closed off to just even hearing other opinions, so I think you're asking us in a great way to just just open the door, like we're not saying come on in and sit down, maybe, but we're just saying, hey, you know, check out what's going on out there, right, in terms of people. We are kind of talking about activators and activists and you know, this is something that I don't know why my brain runs on all the time. I'm really curious about your feelings about cancel culture. You know there's definitely people out there in the world who deserve it and we know who the ones truly are. But you know, I think and I'm saying this from my personal opinion, you know, it's created a little bit of a fear of wish, of saying the wrong thing and giving a little bit of wish washy energy. Like you know, I get behind this podcast and I get nervous. I'm going to say something and I have and I've regret those things, but you know we're so scared of a quote, unquote, cancel.
Speaker 2:I'd just love to know what your thoughts are yeah, I generally think you don't believe in cancel culture. I think it is a. It is an exercise in futility and ignorance and I'm not saying the people who cancel people are ignorant, listen to me like trying to qualify everything within the bounds of what is quote, unquote unacceptable and acceptable in life. I think very few things fall, are outside of the center part of that Venn diagram, that are so egregious and so unforgivable that someone doesn't deserve a second chance. I'm a bit of an excessive humanist in that way, like I believe in second chances in nearly every realm of life not all. I think there's some inexcusable crimes and I think there things that have happened in history that can only be looked through one lens or can only be seen through one lens. That being said, cancel culture very rarely produces a productive outcome. To me, a productive outcome is a chance to engage and not understand, because if it's pure hate, that's not ever going to be understood. But so little falls into that category that to me it seems like a wasted opportunity to engage in some sort of a discussion. Now, I know people don't agree with that, but the bottom line is I think we have all said things that highly sensitive people, or maybe even not, could be so offended by that they would think we were in need of cancellation. And I don't think if it came to that, if we were on the other side of it, we would feel so strongly that other people need to be quote unquote canceled. It's like this is a great example.
Speaker 2:So I've covered a lot of trials in my career and I sat in a TV studio for eight hours at a time with these defense attorneys and we were covering the Casey Anthony trial and all I could keep asking them was like God, how could you ever defend someone accused of such a heinous crime? And she said to me Sunny, if you were accused of something and she's like you're right, probably it may be not what I'm not making a judgment call on that but in some cases you're right. Some people are just awful humans and they are probably guilty of the thing you know, an excellent percentage of time they're guilty of the thing that they're accused of.
Speaker 2:But what if you were that one percent?
Speaker 1:What if?
Speaker 2:you were the person that was canceled, would you want everyone to say, no, marley, I don't care, whatever you say can't redeem you. What if I were the criminal? What if I were? Like? There is a we have to leave space for human error. We have to leave space for systems to fail and we have to leave space for us to be human and mess up, and I would never want to advocate for something that I would feel like would deny someone that right. And it exists in our justice system for a reason, just as I believe second chances, for the most part, should exist in our daily interactions. So I'm not a generally a fan of cancel culture for that reason.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm not really either, because I just think it creates a lot of fear. And there are, there's, a lot of people that I think then you know, aren't showing the real colors or just walk in the middle line because that's what they've been told and I'm like, but they don't really believe it. So I just I worry it's creating a lot of falsity. Yeah, people, and you know it, it's. I think, seeing we're talking about media as well, in the social media world it's created a lot of performative posting and I'm like do you really know that? Do you really believe that? Or is it you are scared? If you don't post your view on this political matter, you will be canceled, and I'm just like I want to trust people more, that when they say things, they mean them Right, and that's why I'm kind of against it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know, and give people the space to arrive at the conclusions that they arrive at, maybe someone is not jumping on a post right away because they really want to understand it. Yeah, and that's OK too. You know, we're in such, a such a difficult time for this issue in particular because, yep, you know, yeah, people are all over social media these days posting their beliefs, and I respect that and I have very strong beliefs about things that are happening in the world and I have posted accordingly when I felt like it and stepped away when I felt like I shouldn't think and I want to give people the same freedom to sort of come to their conclusions. But I just think it's dangerous territory when we impose our belief system and what is quote, unquote, right and wrong on someone else.
Speaker 2:And it's weird because I did an episode a long time ago about cancel culture in particular, and I interviewed this journalist who studied a lot of these cases of sort of public shaming or cancel culture and rarely does anything productive come come out of anything. I mean, it's just it makes one side the arbiter of justice and good and makes the other the bad guy. We all know that we are all. We all contain a little bit of both of that. Let's not lie to ourselves and pretend like just because you're posting the acceptable things on social media that you stand for what's right in the world. Someone said to me and I posted something on Instagram in tandem with that episode and they're like I don't believe in cancel culture, I believe in accountability culture. And then I was like well, what's accountable to you?
Speaker 1:Different yeah.
Speaker 2:And we're. So. What does it say about us that we're so eager to publicly flog people for something they believe, and it's just? It's very weird and there, as a Libra, a strong sense of justice, and I don't believe that I need to be the person doling out online what is right and what is wrong, and you deserve to be canceled Because it's just, it's very sticky territory.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I couldn't agree more. And, like you know, with social media and I'm going all the way talking, I mean politics, politicians job is to talk about politics but you know, I feel like we've really called on actors, influencers and said you know you need to use your platform. And my question is do they do they really like I don't know? And then also we go micro technically if you have an Instagram, you have a platform. It's like that's a good point we always need to be sharing our opinions.
Speaker 1:I just I'd love to know. I love this. Oh, my gosh, I love this.
Speaker 2:So much OK. So, for example, what's happening now in the Middle East? Taylor Swift has been one of the people who's been criticized for not speaking up. Yes, it is my rule of thumb that if you feel strongly about something, it's post. Post about it, right, that, to me, shows me that her or she, or whoever else, may not have posted. I'm only using this as an example because it's it's topical. It's happening now.
Speaker 1:We all know who she is and we all know there's issues in the Middle East. And right, you need some help, right, exactly yeah. So I'm you know I don't want to go down this path.
Speaker 2:You know, don't extrapolate.
Speaker 2:All I'm saying is that people have criticized her, and that's a fact for not posting, but what that tells me, as a consumer, is she doesn't feel qualified for one reason or another, or and that's OK. Now, if I were Taylor Swift or a person of that magnitude and I believe very strongly, I would probably post. But that's my jam and that's my call, and that's on me. I think you post whatever it is. You post with the acknowledgement that what you do will be difficult for some people and will be applauded by others. And this is something that I'm really actually finessing on my feet and my podcast right now, because I have beliefs and think very strongly certain things about things that are happening in the world on many levels, in many arenas, and while it is my job to present both sides, which I always will, I also have found instances where I felt called to share my own personal beliefs, which is a departure.
Speaker 2:Having worked in journalism, I was not allowed to do that before.
Speaker 2:The beauty of new media is that you can put that out there and say, ok, this is your fact episode, and this is where you're hearing, and this is next one is going to be where you're going to be.
Speaker 2:Next one is going to be where you hear my thoughts on.
Speaker 2:You know, I did a whole series on the overturning of Roe versus Wade and it was a moment of sort of consideration for me where I thought, okay, do I want to come out publicly and say what I think? Because for many people it wouldn't be a big deal, but for a working journalist for 15 years it's difficult to come out and say, hey, I'm very pro-choice and here's why, and understand that I'm alienating people. So I keep that top of mind all the time is that there are times where I can approach things from a two-sided sort of factual, informational stance in their episodes and things that I can do where I can come at it from a more activist or opinionated stance. And the good thing is and I know you know this from hosting a show yourself is that your audience comes with you on that journey and if they feel offended by what I say, they're entitled to switch it off, they're entitled to unfollow, and that's what it is. You post your strong feelings, understanding that you're gonna lose some people. That's what happens.
Speaker 1:It's tough, and I think a lot of people look at social media, new media, as a very personal platform and so they take it personally. But you're putting it out there. You gotta learn to be okay with that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's hard, isn't it?
Speaker 1:It's tough build a swamp.
Speaker 1:I know, oh yeah, no, I'm actually horrible at it, so like very bad. But you know, at the same time, like I'm working, I'm growing too. What are you gonna do? Yeah, that's all it's about. So you do an excellent job hitting the streets, going up to people asking them their opinion, and I feel like in our day-to-day around the dinner table, we're running into it a lot more on a very grand scheme that maybe we don't agree with everybody we are close with friends with. I'd love to know a few easy tips or tactics that maybe you use to catch phrases, to politely open that conversation at the dinner table or whatnot.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 2:So I heard this recently and it's kind of a tweak on something I've always done, but the language is just a little more finessed and I love it. So when you're having a difficult conversation with someone whether it's at the holiday table or you know, it's just a group of friends on a random night and you hear them sort of explaining or saying what they think, and you're like, oh gosh, I don't agree, rather than be like why don't you get it like? Why, why do you feel that can feel? Speaking of being triggered, this is like so it can feel a little, it can put a person in a defensive stance. It's kind of can be hurting, it can be why do you think that Marl, like it can feel a little harsh. So I have, I heard this tip and I love it and I'm starting to use it, rather than ask someone well, tell me, why do you believe that? I'm starting to change it too. How did you come to feel that way? And it's a little less affronting and like tell me more. Like I can't believe you think that. Why do you feel it? It's more like hmm, how did you come to feel that way? Like what happened in your life that made you and it's a soft entry into difficult conversations. So I would say that's like one thing you can do. I would also just don't shy away from the conversations, like I'm interested in knowing the people around me for who they are. I've had plenty of uncomfortable conversations with friends lately about what's happening in the world and I again we may feel differently and you hear it out and respectfully and how did you come? Oh, tell me more. And again, it doesn't require you as a human to walk away. This changed person, wow, we now agree. But it gives that person the space and helps them to drop their defensiveness. So I always suggest entering conversations with that question and then just be human and understand that.
Speaker 2:What I try to keep in the back of my mind is that we ultimately, I do think, agree on so much more than we disagree on, even if you're talking about the most contentious of issues. I think. Ultimately people want here's what they want in life peace, health, happiness and love, like if we're boiling it down to the least common denominator in life, right? So people and everything is built on top, laws are built on top of that and borders are built on top of that and everything is built on top of these very basic foundational needs that all humans have, and we just interpret them differently, right? So life and health to me doesn't look the same as it does to someone else.
Speaker 2:So, understanding that there's probably a lot you have in common, that, even if you're not going to come to terms on this one issue, try to see that, because it helps you see the, it helps you keep your relationships intact. That being said, there could be some people who find something out about someone, a belief that they have and want to not be their friend anymore or want to cut communication, and I think we have to respect that too. But you know the boundary as a human and you know when it's time to stop looking for the common ground and start separating yourself. Listen to that, but there are many ways to engage with people and those are just some ways to just keep it human.
Speaker 1:Keep it human, keep it on the table. Keep it on the table. Sony you are so lovely and I'm just hoping you can tell all the listeners where to find you, where you're at your podcast and all the good things.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you very much for hosting this conversation. It was great, these questions were excellent and I feel like we got some really cool stuff today. My podcast is called we Got to Talk. It's on everywhere where you get podcasts, the website is wegottotalkcom and I do a lot of blogging, kind of breaking down some tips from our experts and guests, so you'll find that there and on Instagram. I'm at Sunny Abada, which is S-O-N-N-I-A-B-A-T-T-A, so thank you very much.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for listening to Confessions of a Want to Be it Girl. Don't forget to rate and subscribe to the show. As always, we'll see you next Tuesday. Bye.