Photo Happy Hour

Posing

June 04, 2020 Michael Mowbray, Carl Caylor, Dan Frievalt Season 1 Episode 13
Photo Happy Hour
Posing
Show Notes Transcript

The guys get together and give you great tips on being posers. Uh, I meant, great posing tips. Along they way they acknowledge the USA sending Bob and Doug into space (take off, eh?). Dan coins a new word: varely. Carl talks about the difficulty in laying pipe in the dark. And Michael breaks out his Batman voice.

Informative and entertaining, grab your favorite beverage and press "play".  And don't forget to subscribe!

Your Hosts:
Michael Mowbray, M. Photog., Cr., owns Beautiful Portraits by Michael in DeForest (Madison) Wisconsin and also owns MoLight. Learn more at:
www.beautifulportraits.com
www.gomolight.com

Dan Frievalt, M.Photog., M. Artist, Cr., owns Frievalt Photography in DePere (Green Bay) Wisconsin and also runs Seniors Unlocked. Learn more at
www.frievaltphotography.com
store.seniorsunlocked.com

Carl Caylor, M. Photog., Cr., ASP-Fellow, Kodak Alaris Mentor, owns Photo Images by Carl in Iron Mountain, Michigan and also runs Carl's Coaching Corner.  Learn more at:
www.photoimagesbycarl.net
www.ccphotocoach.com

MoLight offers more than 20 different MoLight -brand softboxes and modifiers.

Michael Mowbray :

Recorded live from the petting zoo at Neverland Ranch. It's the photo happy hour podcast. Hey, and welcome everybody. I'm your photo happy hour bartender Michael Mowbray I'm serving up a 16 ounce tallboy of delicious photography. Goodness, it's frothy. Joining me behind the bar are Dan Frievalt? He's not frothy and Carl Caylor I'm not sure about him. Don't ask.

Dan Frievalt :

Hey, what's up everyone? I have a minty muddled concoction of mindfulness. That's, I didn't I can't believe I got that out without stumbling. That was pretty good. Did you did you rehearse that? No, I did. So if I would have definitely would have stumbled if I tried to practice that.

Michael Mowbray :

What are you drinking Carl?

Carl Caylor :

This is a blueberry Moscow Mule a blueberries in respect to the fact that good Gosh, better has something harvestable sometime this year and I'm running over all kinds of blueberry plants out in the woods right now. So, blueberries it is today.

Michael Mowbray :

Sounds good. I'm going by standard summer drink right now I've got the the Citron flavored vodka with the lemonade.

Carl Caylor :

In my mate, again made for a nice photograph

Michael Mowbray :

by Yeti knockoff here which I'm thinking about buying. I'm thinking about getting some of these remote like,

Carl Caylor :

you should. Yeah.

Michael Mowbray :

I'm sure people would like these. I mean, I like these things. Yeah. So, in case it's the first time you're listening or if you totally forgot what we talked about. We are three photographers who have been in business For a little bit of time, and we get together and we drink and we talk about photography, and the more we drink, the smarter Dan gets. Anyway we have a we have a topic to try to keep us centered and most of the time we go off topic but that's actually okay. And our topic this week is posing. So we're going to be demonstrating all the different poses that you should be using. And we're have to describe them using audio.

Carl Caylor :

z.

Dan Frievalt :

Oh, posing Oh, I thought. I thought you said posers like a word.

Carl Caylor :

thought the same thing you pose. We could

Michael Mowbray :

talk about all the posers are out there.

Dan Frievalt :

Speaking of which did you see Bob and Doug made it? Yeah, SpaceX say, your dad was there take off.

Michael Mowbray :

My wife and I were watching that live and I turned her after I said, Bob and Doug, I turned to her and I said, Take off you hosers and she's like, nodded, nodded down. Well don't

Carl Caylor :

go watch their movie.

Michael Mowbray :

It's been a long time.

Dan Frievalt :

It really should be a sponsor.

Unknown Speaker :

Oh yeah,

Dan Frievalt :

yes.

Carl Caylor :

Strange brew. Sponsorships

Dan Frievalt :

by strange brew you dare yo hoser DeRose

Michael Mowbray :

I've got a good sponsor this week. We have to wait to the end of that one out of the bag but there's a good sponsor this week. Okay, one of the best ones yet. We'll see. So posing um, man, how do we how are we going to be talking about posing using audio?

Carl Caylor :

We'll need to visualize

Dan Frievalt :

what you came up with the topic.

Unknown Speaker :

Not taking responsibility

Michael Mowbray :

for this one. I never teach posing. I suck at posing. Well, that's it for this show.

Carl Caylor :

That's rap folks. Hey, just go stand over there. Hey, dude over there and do something I see a snapshot of you there a oser

Michael Mowbray :

I have I have gotten what I call more organic in my posing which is good and bad and I will do a little bit of that I will let them just go over and just kind of be themselves and then work something from there because sometimes when they're being themselves they get relaxed and they look good and I don't know I think a lot especially for the seniors a lot of them are looking at so much Instagram and so many influencers which you have good and bad posing both but sometimes they just naturally fall into some good poses and I'll shoot that and then guide from there Oh, and did did you just duck face me? Face Yeah,

Dan Frievalt :

you said influencer so that's right.

Carl Caylor :

That was like four years ago though. I mean, that's over that.

Michael Mowbray :

Oh, no. Oh, no, no still it's still it's Yeah,

Dan Frievalt :

so thing. Yeah. You know, but Michael, you bring up a good point about being organic and and what I'll add to that is, what I do is get my get my lighting setup, put them in the location. I want to photograph in, which is a pleasing location, get pleasing lighting. And let them know them just kind of getting the light set up and then kind of interact with them because then I don't have to look at the back of the camera or anything, I could just go click, click, click and know that everything is exposed correctly and kind of let them do their thing and then tweak it like Oh, I like that. But, you know, turn your hand or spin this way or, you know, sit down or stand up like, you know, so it's sometimes give vague instructions because they're just going to do something that looks natural. And what do we always hear the mom behind us? It says he or she always does that you you captured him. They're always doing that. It's like because you just let them Yeah, you've just recorded as Carl would say what was going on in front of you?

Michael Mowbray :

Oh, I'll even do that on purpose. I'll you know we'll work with them. And maybe they're they don't know how to just naturally pose so I'll guide them and you know, we'll do some shots and whatever. And I'll drop the camera and I'll look at the viewfinder. You know, look at the last couple of shots and just kind of peek over what they're doing and pop up bang and, you know, grab a shot of them being really natural. And because sometimes when they let their guard down, then they do have a good look, you know, and that's, that's a tip for anybody out there. Be sure you watch your your clients in between shots, because, you know, sometimes they put one look forward for a shock is that maybe they think that's what mom wants? Or it's going to be? It's going to be something that's going to be more I don't know. rigid? Is that the word I'm looking for? Sometimes to region?

Carl Caylor :

Yeah, this is funny. Yeah. Cuz I remember starting off in portrait world, you know, and looking at brochures of photographers with poses and they had opposed number one, pose number two post number 75. I'm going oh my gosh, you gotta be kidding me. And it's still funny because I still have guests asked me Well, can you can you show me some points Is that you might be using? Like, I don't know. And no, I don't know, I can't tell you because I don't know yet. And because here's the deal in euros, you already hit on it. I want you to be you hang out, do your do your thing, be yourself. Because when you record that, whether it's right or wrong for us as photographers is pro photographers, it is capturing who that person is and how people their family and friends see them every day. And it's that's a positive is a very good thing to capture. But you also need to be careful with that as well because i've i've photographed people doing some pretty I mean, sitting in strange ways I'm going how, how the heck do you even sit like that it looks like your legs are tight in a pretzel or something. And one one time I thought it was such a cool pose. And I I it was a really cool image. The background was really neat clothing just fit right with the the scene and and I made it to Display image of it had it in the gallery. And one day I happened to walk into the gallery when my next senior was out in there, and I overheard them telling their mom, oh my god, I hope he doesn't make me sit like this. And I thought, whoo, you know, it's a good lesson, you know, because what we think is cool. And for that one person might not be right for everybody else. And that's the The key to this is that and I tell people, this is a custom product, it is custom to you and what you like, and this is why I do like different things, what you like and your posing might not be what the next person likes, and vice versa. So and that's okay. I we want that we want to be personalized to you.

Michael Mowbray :

A lot of people got into that kind of flow posing there for a while, like you, you started to talk about pose number one post number 12 pose number 16. And I think that there's two problems with that and you touched on is is not going to be right for us. Everybody, and everything that you shoot is going to look the same. So every seniors got, you know, these 12 poses, and then you go to the next seniors same 12 poses, and ain't none of them that fit that particular senior. So right.

Carl Caylor :

Exactly. Now, I know we talk a lot about seniors but let's talk about kids for a second. You know, a lot of us know we photograph anything that comes through the doors. I mean, we like to specialize in certain things but we need to pay bills and you know, when when those little ones I know we do we got paid bills, they keep coming in the mailbox. I mean, locking it in

Michael Mowbray :

the mail,

Carl Caylor :

don't I scooted shut and he still put it far away. Get in there. Dang postmaster anyway. My kids, I let them get bored if I see them, trying to interact with mom too much and try to try to do the expression that mom is been practicing. I hate that. Oh, we got here. Okay, we're all ready guys. We've been practicing smiling for the last three days I'm going off God go home, we're gonna reschedule because this is going to be a disaster and a train wreck. So, but that's the that's the key those let them become myself again I let them get bored and I'll ignore them. I'll turn around and talk it completely ignore them and talk to mom or whoever else is there at the time. And it just, you know, peripherals. Just watch what they do. And Dan already hit on it. Watch you watch your clients. Watch what they do, and then record it.

Dan Frievalt :

Be careful. Be careful watching your seniors too closely, though. Yeah. I told him I told him a factor. Yeah, no, that's a good point. I do too, because I'll tell him it's like I'm analyzing the light and everything. So it looks like I'm staring at you. Well, I'm not I Am I it's the light inside of you kind of break that, you know, break the ice joke about Yeah, like, oh, okay, that's Yeah, that's fine then. But otherwise, if you're just like staring at him, they're like, What is he doing? Looking at me, he's looking into my soul like,

Carl Caylor :

looking at me. He's looking through me that sick little. Yeah, it's it's like again it's like

Dan Frievalt :

it's like when I was in high school I'd come home and my mom would look at me and be like, Yes, I was at the party. It's like, shoot. She's you have to say anything. You know, I'm the youngest of seven and you know, mostly boys. So she, she, she heard it and saw it alls. I'd come home and she'd be like, look at me like, shoot, I can't even I was working up like the whole story and everything and she's like, No, she is.

Michael Mowbray :

Back man. Jerry's basement

Carl Caylor :

YMCA and

Dan Frievalt :

with my Coca Cola shirt with a collar popped up.

Carl Caylor :

Right

Michael Mowbray :

full of mud from running through the field.

Dan Frievalt :

Yes, yeah. So there's there's your There's your 80s 90s visual for you,

Michael Mowbray :

Carl you left out the the favorite posing tool for kids

Unknown Speaker :

duct tape duct tape. Absolutely.

Carl Caylor :

Yep, I did that with my kid my son actually one of our my cousin got us a really cool outfit for him when he was little, little little and it was a kind of it was like an overall but like more of a traditional kind of fancy, you know, feel to it, you know, and dressy kind of feel to it and it just didn't look right. Laying down with it. So we tried setting them up in this chair and he couldn't sit up really so you kept sliding off slide. Yep, so I rolled up a little piece of duct tape. Put it on the chair from top to bottom. there and he decided my problem is that he kept sliding sideways you know that his shoulders and everything kept sliding out so Helen forward your duct tape stuck to the back chair film culture

Michael Mowbray :

as long as it's on the fabric and you're not touching the skin it's fine line I can see people go oh my

Unknown Speaker :

gosh as I've done that

Dan Frievalt :

so basically what you're saying is we need to bring duct tape to next sink conference. So then when Miko has too much scotch we just got to tape him in the chair. slouch Oh,

Carl Caylor :

you know I just saw a bunch of Velcro to his you know back of his shirt and then you know have Velcro on the chair and just Velcro on there. You could do that to

Michael Mowbray :

a man. Whatever works. expensive.

Dan Frievalt :

That's a that's above my paygrade

Michael Mowbray :

Oh yeah, I have like huge rolls of like industrial strength Velcro. Think about making windows Velcro walls. Oh, We should do that. That'd be a fun thing for a convention. You have a trampoline don't you Carl? I do you have a trampoline? I've got the Velcro we'll make a Velcro suit and a Velcro definitely

Carl Caylor :

we're totally doing that next time you guys come out shooting I mean coming out to solve the problems of the world brainstorm well brainstorm that's one yes brainstorming

Unknown Speaker :

Yeah.

Michael Mowbray :

All right so posing damn posing tips if anybody you know, here's here's a thought, here's one I was gonna throw out. And this is this is something I found I naturally did and then I, I ran across it in keep wanting to say Fernando Valens oil his book, but he was he was the pitcher for the Dodgers. Roberta valance, Willa must be his cousin. Absolutely. decreed, you know, the idea of creating energy in a shot and I ran across in his book is like, hey, that's a good way of putting it because it was kind of something I do anyway, but you take a look Look at which way their eyes their chin, and then he says collarbone I always say chest, but which direction they're pointing in. So you get to going one way and one goes the other way, it creates a lot more tension, a lot more energy. So I've got collarbone or chest, going to the left, Chien going to left and the eyes are cutting back to the right. That creates some energy, or you've got chest going this way. Chin going this way is coming back the left, same kind of thing where you mix things up. You take different combinations of those three to create some energy. If you've got them all going in the same direction, chest, chin and eyes. It's a more it's a much more placid and less energized. Look. It's a calmer look. There's no contrast.

Carl Caylor :

Yeah, that's contrast and misdirection. You know, have all the things going one way is going back the other you have to look at what's different, because we're human. You look at their eyes, and it creates depth and dimension and, you know, human figures, so absolutely You know, the easiest thing to think about posing, because I know we go visit my class every every week long classroom and say, by Wednesday like we still haven't talked about posing I'm like, yeah, we kind of have from day one it's posing is really composition is the composition of the body. And so, think of your each image, hello, think of each image is having several different compositions composition of the pose composition of the scene, and composition of the mixture of the two combination. And if you think about it that way, lines that we follow lines of the person appendages, run them on angles, find curves, just like you would find for leading lines within a scene. So think about the body as a compositional, thought process of all of its own, but it still needs to fit MIT meet match with what's there in the scene and then you need to lay it right there's

Michael Mowbray :

a lot to is that I was gonna say and then I always think of lighting is that third element of composition like you're saying Carl and posing you gotta light the bows, you've got the you've got the background, you've got shapes and form and color in the background, you got shapes and form and color with the with the subject. And where you decide to place light for light and shadow the highlight the shape and form and enhance the composition of the actual person you're, you're photographing to. That's where we're getting really complex. Otherwise, we're just out there taking some pictures. Yes, yes, I ran across. This was another side I ran across twice in the last two days. People on different forums complaining about and these were senior complaining about senior competitors who were doing $30 sessions $30 sessions. A lot of them was like a half hour session with 30 images $30

Unknown Speaker :

Oh, wow,

Carl Caylor :

yeah. Wow, why bother?

Michael Mowbray :

I can't even Yeah, we probably just lost 20% of our listenership

Carl Caylor :

Yeah. Getting paid for what you do folks

Michael Mowbray :

are gone now.

Carl Caylor :

Yeah, there's a lot to think about when you're creating portraits you know cuz you're dealing with light and posing and composition in several different facets like I just said you deal with the personality and the customization for that one specific person. And then the lighting and then colors and oh my gosh.

Michael Mowbray :

And it wraps

Dan Frievalt :

and hands on with doing my hands,

Carl Caylor :

hands hands.

Dan Frievalt :

But, you know, along the lines of $30 for a session or whatever, you know, I think that people I know that people just lack confidence in it in so you don't charge appropriately. So Don't take what we're saying is that we're ripping on you, we want to help you. And hopefully you're listening to these things that as it can educate you for posing and lighting and composition, like all the things we're talking about, and give you the confidence to charge more, because you're worth more and it's easy, like I've been doing this for a long time. And, you know, there's days I lack a lot of confidence and as well, but I don't under value it either. And there's other times like when you get to the price that I'm at, it's pressure to but that like, Well, hopefully, they see the value in what I'm doing because another enemy is to compare yourself to everyone. So it's easy to be on these groups and forums and see all you know the best of the best. But when you're putting yourself out there every single day, it's easy to compare yourself and like feel like oh, maybe I'm not good enough. So

Michael Mowbray :

we've said we've said it so many times in the show so far. Since we launched this, don't compare yourself to everybody else. I mean, don't don't set your pricing based on what everybody else is charging, don't shoot the same way that everybody else shoots. If you want to be successful in this business, you have to be different. You have to be different in how you how you shoot the experience in a good way, the quality of the images, and even what you offer and what you charge. If you're going to be trying to shoot the same thing everybody else is shooting and charging the same low price everybody else is shooting. You're a commodity and you'll never stand out. And I'm sorry, you won't be successful.

Carl Caylor :

Well, here's the other thing confidence or not, let's let's do this. Take confidence and experience right off the table for a minute. Okay, let's just say everybody is equal as far as once they have a camera in their hand. We're just going to make believe everybody's completely equal. All right. So think that thinking that how much cash how much in value camera equipment do you have with you on any given shoot you guys? So you camera bodies lenses lights? 10 Grand 10 grand Okay, usually so let's say 10 grand how many sessions Did you photograph last year? portrait sessions? Not commercial. How many portrait sessions? Did you photograph last year? Six. Let's, let's just go live, let's just say

Michael Mowbray :

a lot more than the session. I mean, I'm not. I'm not high volume by any means, right? But

Carl Caylor :

let's just just for fun, just so it's an easy number, let's say 100.

Michael Mowbray :

Sure, okay, that's a good number. How

Carl Caylor :

long is your camera going to last you let's say say it's going to last four years. Okay, so it's 400 sessions, do the math 10 grand divided or 4000 into 10,000 or 400 into 10,000 euro.

Michael Mowbray :

It's 25 By the way,

Carl Caylor :

There you go.

Unknown Speaker :

So

Carl Caylor :

you just covered your equipment. Right? That's it. You didn't cover any costs. You didn't cover any insurance or anything like that yet, so it's just Yeah, you got your computer, right, and the computer and everything else so which is five years either. So, you know, it's funny how and I had to had this discussion with my my second cousin she had called and asked about doing photography for, for weddings, not photographing weddings, but doing creating slideshows. And you said, Yeah, I'm going to charge hundred dollars apiece. And so a couple things. First of all, you know, you you need to deal with the copyright because you're going to be taking images from who knows who, for people's slideshows for their wedding day and Then you still need equipment. And you need to get there I said, Well, you know figure you need a projector projectors are a couple thousand dollars. You can buy equipment to copy all those slides and you know, good lens and him like that. So if you did you know, 100 of those, Oh, I can't do 100 I was thinking I'd get maybe 20 a year. I said, Okay, well, that's $2,000 you made or you took in but it cost you more than that tape and do it. As you know, at a point you got to do math with it causes us to drink or not. You got in business.

Michael Mowbray :

We're actually Okay, let's let's talk more about math.

Carl Caylor :

Yeah, no. Yeah, yeah, we can talk more about math. I'm losing my drink here. We're losing drink. Yeah, we're posing.

Dan Frievalt :

So back back to posing How about a few things like mistakes or things that you shouldn't do? Jose, NYC. Some things to watch out for and, you know, print competition will, or taking a week long class with Carl for instance, will point out a lot of things that you may not notice when you first started out or even if you've been doing it for a while be like, Oh, yeah, I need to bend that wrist or soften those hands or, you know, not shoot into the private area that isn't very pleasing the changing room, which

Carl Caylor :

definitely don't do that. Somebody's gotten over that.

Michael Mowbray :

So let's do that. Let's do this. This is this good score around the horn, who just throw out one posing mistake that we see all the time. And I'll start square to the camera.

Carl Caylor :

Square the camera,

Dan Frievalt :

square camera. Good one, Kira.

Carl Caylor :

You already mentioned it but more or less crotch shots or low angles with the leg closest to you being up. drives me nuts. It's just not appropriate or appealing.

Dan Frievalt :

And I'll say, maybe this is more advanced, maybe, maybe not, but anything closest to the camera is gonna look larger. So watch hands and different things that are close to the camera because they're gonna appear much larger as you know, when when someone points it out to be like, Oh my goodness, that hand looks humongous. Yeah. So you know, something along those lines. Now,

Michael Mowbray :

I was going to tag right on to that and in which way the hands shaped because if you bring your hand and look in the mirror, sometime, bring the hand up by your face, but bring it ahead of your face and show the back of the hand. The back of your hand as Bob as much skin as you as your face. Yeah. So it's going to maybe even be brighter. So it's going to pull more attention away from your face.

Dan Frievalt :

Not as bright as your legs though.

Michael Mowbray :

No, nothing's wrong. I've been out a little bit so they're, they're no longer zone. They're no longer zone 10 there Like,

Dan Frievalt :

math.

Michael Mowbray :

My goal is to get him down to like zone eight.

Dan Frievalt :

Anyways, yeah, yeah, I mean good point like color, you know, as well as far as you, especially for us in Wisconsin that don't get a lot of sun, you know, or at least if you you put their right arm forward because maybe at least that's the one that hung out the window for a few days when the sun was nice. That might be closer to their complexion, but

Carl Caylor :

almost they were driving, you know, there's your left arm, left arm. Yeah,

Dan Frievalt :

yeah, I'm sorry. I left. Yeah, I guess I have too much mohito. Boy.

Carl Caylor :

Well, here's the other thing you touched on before about, you know, posing is great, but then you have to light the pose. So I always tell people, okay, you see people leaning on their hands. Well, all right, which way are you going to light it? I'm gonna lay it away from the hand because otherwise the hand is closer to light than with the faces. So we don't want to make that break because of our life. source as as well so is all these things that you're thinking about in posing in the composition of the person as well as how it's going to relate to tonal values throughout it because of your lighting and I get a little more complicated but it's something to watch you know watch relates coming from pose so that the brightest thing because still becomes a face

Dan Frievalt :

and and yeah i agree 100% in Cairo maybe you will back me up on this maybe not but naturally, yeah, you know, as as a natural light photographer, which you were known for. And it kind of switched a little bit to hybrid or off camera flash as well as I had a

Carl Caylor :

Michael I blame. Yeah,

Dan Frievalt :

it was Michael's fault. Yeah. But it gives us that control because, you know, now I can before it's like we, the reflector had to be here and the light was coming this way and everything was worked out. I can't move the sun and the reflector and get the light. But I can maybe have them change the hand but maybe that doesn't work. So At least I could change the light like, okay, throw the light on the other side system picks it up. Did you do over sends it out? She makes that noise by the way,

Unknown Speaker :

is really odd. Yeah,

Dan Frievalt :

yeah, I pay extra for that. But

Carl Caylor :

I was just gonna ask her for that. Yes, yes, you have to do that. Can you like request different tones of it? I mean, can she in the next you know, because she

Dan Frievalt :

talented or not, but she is and if the sun is going down it Yeah, it's a whole different noise

Unknown Speaker :

like

Michael Mowbray :

here's one that drives me crazy and something I used to do a lot myself unfortunately was shooting right into a shoulder. You got you know, so one of the first things you learn is don't have the subject squared of the camera, square hips, square shoulders at you everything's on the same line. So you know you learn to turn them but then you're shooting right into the heavy part of the shoulder.

Carl Caylor :

Yeah, no and which is closer to the camera by far, I mean the length of your shoulder from your face. So, yep, two to two knocks against you right away, right there. So create angles,

Dan Frievalt :

great angles can Yeah, can we talk lens choice as well because they'll make a difference. You know, a lot of fad that was going around for a while is that which I do like this look, but just be known and be cautious with is the 50 millimeter 1.2. You know, you get these kind of wider shots with that shallow depth of field that beautiful creamy bokeh. But a 50 millimeter lens is a wide angle lens. So depending on where you position the person in that frame and how close you are, you're going to get some distortion. And the head might look larger than normal hands. Anything is going to be distorted.

Michael Mowbray :

You see a lot of people taking the 35 Oh gosh, getting up high. And it's like oh, whoa funhouse. Perfect.

Carl Caylor :

All those all you guys that go fishing, you know how to do this, you see, you catch a fish, what do you do? What do you do, Dan?

Dan Frievalt :

All that as far as you can in front of you, like

Carl Caylor :

Dan Harrison.

Dan Frievalt :

And if you're a muskie fisherman, like really what you kind of curl in you push the belly up a little bit, which, by the way, is also a trick if you're photographing a senior boy, and you do the finally you fold the arms, but you haven't pushed that muscle, you guys can't see what I'm doing. But you fold the arm and that pushes the bicep a little bit. And I also make them job and give me 20 push ups before we choose like, all right, yeah, I want to say Oh, and they're like, Oh, yeah, I was like for real get dropped. Give me 20 and I count them out and yeah, get the veins bulging a little bit and then you push that muscle out and they laugh but it it breaks the ice and then they don't like yeah, look at my muscles there. I'm ready.

Michael Mowbray :

Man, I used to do that for weddings but brides got pissed at me.

Carl Caylor :

You know what I had a bride once that was a bodybuilder in fact been photographed or at the old old St. Joe's at St. Norbert. And we have pictures of her just flexing with all the the women in the wedding party rolling

Dan Frievalt :

the bass man

Carl Caylor :

spinning around.

Unknown Speaker :

She was she was real.

Michael Mowbray :

I mean, holy crap. Unbelievable. But one thing we didn't talk about and to me it's it's like we're the post starts.

Dan Frievalt :

feet. Yeah, good point your phone David. Even especially if you're if you're even shooting a head and shoulder shot pose from head to toe. Because it does do something different all the way. You know, even if it's effects the posture Yeah. Or high heels. I tell. I tell when I do my clothing consultation I say bring. For every outfit either have high heels. We're gonna photograph barefoot.

Carl Caylor :

barefoot. I'm not doing heels man. I'm telling you right now.

Michael Mowbray :

We're talking about the client. Oh them

Carl Caylor :

okay.

Dan Frievalt :

Yeah, readiness weights. What it does is creates posture even though we're not photographing like I barely, barely have a drink.

Michael Mowbray :

Here barely. I barely I hear now.

Dan Frievalt :

Yeah, I created a new word I very rarely, which otherwise is barely photograph full length.

Carl Caylor :

We started early tonight you guys just in case you're wondering. Hey, by the way, this is really good information did. Are we recording this yet?

Michael Mowbray :

Oh, you scared the crap out of me. Yeah.

Carl Caylor :

I'm sorry. No, you're absolutely absolutely Good. Good. Thought. You know the foundation. You gotta have you where it all starts to base. And the thing is, it helps dictate what thought you're trying to get across to. So if there's a swing back, of course, it's more passive. If they're leaning forward onto that foot that's closer to you. It's more aggressive. So it comes down to psychology as well. So your foundation can dictate the story you're trying to tell throughout your portraits. Deep, I know we got a look, we got a lot to think about here.

Michael Mowbray :

One thing I do with, you know, I'm with you on the whole high heel and the wedge and stuff, they're going to go barefoot, and I'm going to do a full length. Let's say we're out in the lake and there's more on the pier. I make them get up on the balls of their feet or up on their toes a little bit, because and they're like, Well, why is like, Well, do you want to look shorter? Do you want to look taller? taller, it's like, do you want your legs look longer? Do you want your legs legs look shorter, you know, longer, okay? Get up on your toes, who's going to lengthen you? It's going to give you a better posture overall, and it's going to give you longer legs. Like, oh, so I hate seeing flat feet. I'm seeing a full length portrait. I hate seeing flat feet on girls guys be weird with the guy up on the balls of his feet but as I ordered high heels or high heels, but not that there's anything wrong with it.

Carl Caylor :

No, no, not at all. No, nothing wrong with that. So, you know, I think Dave Dave back home was one that really impressed me the last few years watching them pose for long legs to show long legs and I've been pretty entranced by that. I want to study a little bit more but great concept great thought behind his purposeful posing these young ladies to show the length of legs and that was pretty cool. So somebody you know, somebody to look at?

Michael Mowbray :

Yeah, and he kind of breaks rules. Some of the rules that we talked about, he'll do a low angle shot using a wide angle lens, because that does give length to the legs. No see that in some fashion shots too and it works long as you pose the other doctor in a row. You have to have the bows correct. Yes.

Dan Frievalt :

Yeah And one thing I do and I think we touched on this in another podcast who knows but is to get some safe shots you know, I start out every session with kind of the same kind of shots get the tenant in in the in the Can I guess? That doesn't sound right you don't want to get 10 shots in the camp but they

Carl Caylor :

all used to that was that was

Dan Frievalt :

the Cannes film canister. But for those those that don't know that terminology, get 10 good shots and your digital card and then start to experiment with breaking some rules in and flow posing or, or walk you know, walk and capture things that are more organic and flowy and natural because that is again I'm talking seniors because that's what I do. But Same thing with children and family like a lot of people want You know, it's funny because a lot of people think I want unpolished stuff, but then you get in front of the camera like walk and this and that and they, they they're stiff they don't know what to do like how

Michael Mowbray :

should I walk? Yeah. But one foot

Dan Frievalt :

or it's like I don't like the way I look you can't see my face it's like cuz I had you walking and talking to each other to see him non pose and yeah, that's not a portrait so that those are good things to have his album filled or fillers or, you know, other things that put on a wall collage. But you know, I always start with a foundation of posing and maybe that's just the way I was taught. Yeah,

Michael Mowbray :

no, I think. Yeah, makes sense. And you actually touched on one of my mantras, I have a new mantra every year one or two. You know, what's new thing Am I going to incorporate what am I going to work on? And I think it was two years ago and I want to do a little bit more again last year was incorporating motion and with today's mirrorless, with the Sony's and the AI autofocus tracking, it's a lot easier to do. So I've been trying to incorporate a lot more motion into every session where they're moving, they're walking, they're running, they're skipping, they're flipping their whatever they're doing.

Carl Caylor :

anticipate the best moment of that motion pose.

Unknown Speaker :

Or sometimes I'm just like, Is that

Dan Frievalt :

is that more Shin?

Unknown Speaker :

Mo's?

Michael Mowbray :

That's trademark Yes.

Dan Frievalt :

By my new book called mo Shin

Michael Mowbray :

Posey human, yeah, motion motion.

Dan Frievalt :

And, and, and that kind of leads me into another tip that I do, which is if I, if I, a lot of times I've been in a session, I'll kind of struggle like oh, I kind of I don't know what to do next. Like, shoot, what do I do? And they're looking at me like, well, how should I pose? One thing I do? was just like change it up. So if they're standing on display sit down, you know, and if for some reason in my mind, it breaks, it breaks the whatever, like, roadblock I have going on at the time. It's like sit down. It's like, oh, okay, I like how you just sat like that, okay? They're, they're shouting and turn this way and then lean that way. Okay? And now it's like, stand up walk over here. So, if you ever get stuck, just change something up, down, move to a different location. Think it through. Because Yeah, like, a lot of times, especially when I started it's like, they're looking at me, especially a couple and they're like, what do you want us to do next? I'm like, I have no idea. I did the five poses. I know. We're gonna do it. Let's just walk over here and talk why, hopefully something comes in my head or, or I'll have, you know, I've purchased posing guides, I have posing guides, I have Pinterest things. I'm not afraid to As we're going from location, location, or if they're changing, I'll pull it up and look on my phone and be like, Oh, yeah, and some of the things are my own images. But

Michael Mowbray :

you forget about what you did

Dan Frievalt :

you forget what you did, or the heat of the moment, like you got a million different things that are going on. You kind of forget what you what you're known for. And it's like, oh, that's pretty cool. You know? And if they can't do it, or if I try and show them, which amounts get a kick out, oh, by the way, they're like, Oh, I like how you pose. Like a girl. That looks so good. You know, I just show my phone and be like, do this.

Michael Mowbray :

You know, I'm going to pose you like one of my French girls. I've got a whole folder on my computer of my assistance. photographic, posing, girl.

Dan Frievalt :

Oh, so many behind the scenes shots. I see. The camera like I gotta get this. This is good. This is Dan Ben in his leg and poppin Yeah.

Michael Mowbray :

Yeah, holding the bow. Okay, yeah.

Carl Caylor :

So another pet peeve is because you talk about bare feet, and the foundation in toes pointing straight at us and fingers pointing straight at us. Because they foreshorten phalanges or appendages. And again, it's a psychology, psychological thing. We were taught mom and grandma always told us Don't ever point at people because it's not nice to point. And if you point somebody's finger at the camera or your photograph, and then with their finger pointed at the camera, they're always going to be pointing out whoever looks at them. So that's another rule to kind of keep in the back of your mind that you might be offending somebody but having fingers point at you at the camera.

Dan Frievalt :

Although I will say Thomas when does some amazing breaking the rules like things flipped upside down, pointing at that Camera wide angle low angle like he does some pretty amazing shots that way so it's done correctly. Yeah, really cool

Carl Caylor :

breaking rules but using lines I mean that's yeah and his stuff i mean i think that's the angle that he's using me to still show that and but they still look like fingers they still look like appendages so

Michael Mowbray :

well maybe this is time for us to take a break and hear a little something from one of our sponsors.

Carl Caylor :

To succeed in anything you need a good coach one that can evaluate your own work with professional advice as to how to improve coach Carl Carl's coaching corner gets to know your photography so that he can structure a custom learning platform that is ideal for you and your art. Check it out at cc photo coach calm. That's cc photo coach calm

Michael Mowbray :

And we're back. We just realized when we took a break that we really haven't talked too much about how to pose guys. And last I heard last I saw, and I may be wrong. Half of the people out there are guys. Wow. It could be a myth. I don't that's Mac

Carl Caylor :

I'm drinking. I'm drinking

Unknown Speaker :

jazz man.

Dan Frievalt :

I talked about flexing muscles. Oh, yeah, that's true.

Michael Mowbray :

Well, you know, I always I always joke with with my, with my male clients. And you know, it's kind of an icebreaker. It's like, hey, you're so lucky to be a guy as like if he didn't already know it, you know? But for guys, we have like four poses girls have 187 and it's a different number every time but it's in some ways it's true. Because guys, there's only so many different ways that they look. Guy appropriate, I guess. You can't break any of those rules to guy ish. But you know, strong poses, creating triangles, creating strong lines, not tipping the head to the high shoulder, things like that, you know where with girls, we can, we can do all that kind of stuff and it makes it softer, makes it feminine. Or we can come back and make it a little bit more masculine guys. We're kind of constrained in some ways, again, not that we can't break those rules, but in general, from a society standpoint, and you know, visual standpoint, we're kind of constrained

Carl Caylor :

well, and they don't care as much. There's so there's that. So their shows, Oh, I know. We're here until too late and we could be out fishing right now. So as we get up here anyway, but and I don't blame him cuz I want to be fishing too. But you know, the guys. Yeah. So now we can score them up more than the camera. So take that rule that you looked at before. Because what do we want to guys be more broad shouldered How do you get that well turn more more square not square but more square to the camera, you still want angles because you still want to create depth back to that composition thing that we talked about. But you know, you can light them from into the chest so that they look more broad. Larger, which we didn't talk about before with the young ladies. You're taught you already explained you know to turn more of an angle not square on Well, why? You know, there we always want to know the why the why is because you can make you look thinner than you really are. And why is it like you look thinner because you turn you lessen the mass that you're seeing of the body than if you light it right because like I said, you're gonna light the pose. If you light it so it skims across that in the face turns back that contrast of misdirection that Michael talked about with all the things going one way but they are one direction with the eyes coming back the other. Now the light is coming across the chest. His face does not hit the chest, the face is brighter and now our attention is drawn to the face. So all these things that make people look thinner or broader. Again, it's pose and light combinations. Man, we got to think about too many things. Yeah,

Dan Frievalt :

it's a lot and our job as photographers is to make them feel comfortable and to pose them and to create imagery that like highlights their best features or makes them look the most pleasing. So, you know, a lot of times people will look at images and be like, wow, why does that look so good? It's like because it was you know, posed and it was lit in the composition like all those things combined. Make what that image is and that's what makes a professional and that's what also makes people pay you is because if they can just get a shot like that with their iPhone, what what are they paying you for? So all these things that you can work on to improve as a professional will get you they high averages and people see You out to to pay you and book you for four sessions. So, yeah, those are all key elements that go into it. Like Carl said, there's a lot to this.

Carl Caylor :

True, really real minds, though, and talk about facial analysis. You know, everybody says, I'll get my good side. You know, everyone does have a good side.

Michael Mowbray :

Yeah, sometimes they're wrong.

Carl Caylor :

They are wrong. A lot of times

Michael Mowbray :

20% of the time is by guests.

Carl Caylor :

Yeah, well in their hair can mess with it too. Because, you know, sometimes your hairs flipped over half their face, and it should be lit from that side, but the hair is blocking it. So you gotta watch out for these things. It's funny, I always refer to it as my brother's a commercial diver. And He always talks about the engine, he's underwater, it's pitch black, and they're giving him directions as to where to walk and underwater, and we're lay the pipe or whatever he's doing that that particular job and they're like, Okay, I think about right but But what's the word of place this, the items that he's that he's working on, and the engineers up on top telling him where to go and he's done the blow going. But there's a great big rock here. We can't, we can't move right here, we can't put this right here. And so your face that you're looking at your subjects and you guys already hit on it, we stare at people we photograph, we don't even realize we're doing it. So make sure you tell them ahead of time that it's going to look like you're staring at them. And that will help with your posing because they'll look more they'll be more natural for you. If they're not subconscious but you staring at them. But look at their face. everybody's eyes and mouth are at different angles. So if you draw a line across somebody's eyes, you know, connect the dots and continue it on for infinity. And then you look at their lips, their mouth. Again, that is usually at an angle as well. And if you do line and go to infinity, the line from the face of the eyes and the line from the mouth will merge. That's the side that you should light from. And that will create a better a more appealing look to that particular face.

Unknown Speaker :

The close side of

Carl Caylor :

the face the close side of the face. Absolutely.

Michael Mowbray :

What about the open side of the face? Why am I Why am I talking like that man?

Carl Caylor :

I was just gonna ask you that.

Dan Frievalt :

Jen

Carl Caylor :

Oh my. But yeah, that's more complicated more

Unknown Speaker :

squat.

Carl Caylor :

My

Dan Frievalt :

protein shake. washed off the

Michael Mowbray :

dog Carl's making a great point. Well, it is an open side of the face but the light should come from the close.

Dan Frievalt :

Yeah, and I'll add to that, you know, using distortion or like we talked about earlier to your advantage. So, it's like for me for instance, when I smile, I want to I that closes more than the other so I kind of look like I'm drunk or like Popeye, but you're, I am. So if you notice that when you're photographing a lot of people, they that happens to a lot of people. So turn in the face so that you know you are kind of I don't want to say hiding it but making it more in the background helps. And a lot of times I don't catch it, I'll send it's like, oh man, I'll find it later as I'm calling down images like I should have turned that face the other way. There's that one I and now with Photoshop and Photoshop professional and stuff, you can kind of open it up a little bit. Yeah, but it's best to get it as we always say in camera, and so keep keep an eye out for that. Like we did there,

Michael Mowbray :

yeah, that's good. Pay attention is I've got a broken nose. Me too. And you know, somebody's got a bump on one side of their nose and I've got a big bump on this side. You know, where do you you know, where do you turn that? Do you turn that away from the camera? Do you turn towards the camera? Do you light into the bump? Depends you light away from the bump. There you go. Whoo. You know, here's the funny thing. A commercial photographer told her on the shadow though. No, he

Carl Caylor :

told me, you know, again, worried about lighting. I think we talked about this in one of the other podcasts. Or maybe it was another webinar we were on lately. But they said, in product photography, if we want the masses to see something, we want it to be appealing. We put light on it, if we don't want them to see if we want it to be kind of diminished in the background, we put dark on it. So think about it that way. If there's something that you want to hide, let it go into shadow a little bit or turn it so it goes To the shadow side or that it is not as close to the camera or to the lens, so it's not as important. All those little things really do make a difference.

Michael Mowbray :

They do. And what I was saying like with the bump on the nose, don't put that bump right on the transition line because it's going to emphasize the bump.

Carl Caylor :

Yeah, it is. It profiles it. Were profilers,

Michael Mowbray :

well, you know, you just the word you just used is actually a go to pose and has been a go to pose for me for more dramatic poses. And I used to do this a lot with brides. I'll do this a little bit with seniors to is a profile shot. Sure, you know, because it's a install. It's something you see all the time. And for brides because you could get the whole dress in their their turn profile, facing the groom. They get them both in the profile, you can you can see him interacting with each other. Versus Cameron caged is a little bit more emotion, a little bit more drama a little bit. More, you know, you just hit on something that we didn't talk about was posing more than one person. I know that's I it's I was dangling that out there saw that angle dangle, dangle dangle.

Carl Caylor :

So that's one of the things that a pet that pet peeve as much well it kind of is but something that's kind of a red flag when I see a bride and groom or engagement couple, whatever. And their standard gazing into each other's eyes so lovingly yet. The groom has his hands in his pockets, and he's staying there, flat foot,

Michael Mowbray :

standing straight up and

Carl Caylor :

straight up and down, have a little motion towards each other. Because that's, I mean, if you were to have drawn the couple if you were to paint if you weren't thinking of photography, if you were a painter, if you could paint whatever came to your head, and my heart and mind, would you have drawn them straight up and down? Or would you have them interact a little bit more and that's something to think about.

Michael Mowbray :

Along with that, too, is like I loved having, you know, wedding couples or engagement couples interacting, turning towards each other. And I always said, Here's a tip you can steal. Look, you have to get your heads uncomfortably close together. Because nobody as you look at your bride to be, you're never going to be three inches away from her because you're just going to look each other bug eyed, but I need you guys to get that close. So here's the tip. You can look at, look at her lips, you don't look don't look directly in her. If you look down at your lips, she looks at your lips. You can be uncomfortably close and it's kind of a moment and you can get your their heads very close together. I also called Give, give me an A. So instead of the groom standing straight up, I would have them stand further apart, they would both have to lean in and reach out and grab each other's hands and they'd make the letter A nice strong triangular shape and the peak of the a the heads coming together. gave you a lot more connection and drama that way.

Unknown Speaker :

There you go. You guys learned something so so

Dan Frievalt :

alphabet So since we're talking A's and Pyro mentioned triangles before, like maybe talk family posing and you know having, you know, the triangle of having one person generally the dad you know kind of higher up and then other members of family around to create that triangle kind of pose. So that you know, has a composition that looks nice as well.

Michael Mowbray :

I always build it around mom because mom's usually driving the process or grandma's driving the process, so make sure that she's whatever that that triangle we're building, she looks the best. Absolutely. But I thought you were going to go here um, how do you pose different body types in that family portrait, and I learned this from Hanson Fon we all do three times a day. by a bodies and B bodies, a bodies are you know thinner. The bodies are rounder. I'm a B body.

Carl Caylor :

body too.

Michael Mowbray :

Wouldn't you like to be a body too? So a bodies smaller thinner come forward, the bodies go behind and use the bodies to block the B bodies because the B bodies don't want their bodies to be to be

Unknown Speaker :

be seen.

Carl Caylor :

Well, so you're using body blocks, you're using the A's to block parts of bees. And right again, we're back to the fishing thing. He was officially bigger use put it forward and it's right to make the comparison. Bring the Acela farther forward, they appear large or in comparison to the bees, the bees compared to comparatively look smaller. So they ever everyone ends up being more uniform in size, especially head sizes, which is why again now lens selections important on the families Because you don't want those people in the front row those A's even though they're blocking people you want their heads to be great big and the people in the back little tiny heads. Yeah,

Michael Mowbray :

because that'll be bad people pull out a 35 millimeter lens and I'm going to use as long a lens as I can get away with absolutely if I can use a 135 absolutely 180 compress compress that space and bring them together Absolutely.

Dan Frievalt :

I'm a I'm a Peabody

Carl Caylor :

I'm not sure what

Michael Mowbray :

wasn't that dog the war the boat? That is the smart little bugger. Herman I'm bringing it Yeah,

Dan Frievalt :

I'm bringing it to the new world here the new century which is the peloton body.

Carl Caylor :

Oh, there you go. All right.

Dan Frievalt :

I'm not sponsored by peloton but if you want hit me up with a code and I will send you $100 on your peloton.

Carl Caylor :

peloton I could use a bike I'm not gonna lie but

Dan Frievalt :

yeah Carl Caylor was pretty impressed.

Carl Caylor :

It's impressive. It's nice and smooth. So hey, back to family posing, though. key thing you mentioned the group creating the base and the triangular composition. Remember, each person within that scene has to be posed that they would have been there without the rest of the group. In other words, each pose has to be okay for itself on its own merits as well. Otherwise, your attention will be drawn to that person, that's the odd person out in their pose. And then you won't see the full family for what it's worth anyhow. So

Michael Mowbray :

here's a tip for everybody who photographs families, if you don't do this already, ask how many people are going to be in the shot and how old they are? And how old they are? And if there are family subsets. Well, there's going to be 20 people. Okay, well, how many different families that's three different families or how many people are in each subset? How old are all the people in there? 31 yeah. Oh, yeah, that's right. I will I will sketch it out. Yeah, I'll before I shoot it, I will sketch a couple of different arrangements out. So I know because when you're dealing with dealing with that many people, they get bored. And if you're trying to figure things out there, have a sketch out ahead of time you go, here you go. Here you go here. I've got a 60 inch print hanging in my studio 25 people I photographed on the day after Thanksgiving. And the only way they could get all the dads who's like multiple different families. The only way they could get the dads that come in and agree, is if I could do it in 15 minutes or less, it's deer season dominoes. It was like a Domino's Pizza guarantee. So I said okay, same thing. How many different people in each breakout each family I sketched it out. I put up a 17 foot wide backdrop in my studio. I had them I had chairs and stools and like a little bill thanks for the background of stand on. I had to come in Boop boop boop boop boop already had a look Look at me. Look at me Be happy click click click click click Buy and the guys were Like what? Like

Carl Caylor :

we got it go back out the words go out and dude yeah, yeah, and did you hear him he could be your assistant to boop boop boop boop boop boop boo Oh

Michael Mowbray :

yeah, I make sound effects when I shoot I make sound effects by retouch as I find Okay, here's here's full disclosure when I'm working on a really like challenging project and I'm and I'm starting to you know really get in the groove. I start to hum the theme from Indiana Jones it'll help you get through that tough retouching project.

Dan Frievalt :

See you next time I retouch it that's what's gonna go through my head now. I think Damn it, Michael. So my drink is empty. Girls putting on the SAT in the Indy car. Nice.

Michael Mowbray :

Wow, you had that property. That's great. I just happen to have it down here from a couple weeks ago. So, um, Dan didn't hear this.

Unknown Speaker :

I got some news. Oh.

Michael Mowbray :

So for those of you who don't know this, only a couple of people knew this. I had a close acquaintance, good friends I play golf with on Wednesdays. Whose son? I found out got tested positive for COVID. Yeah, and I played golf with him last year, really, last Wednesday after his son had visited on Sunday and was showing symptoms and all that kind of stuff. He came in played golf and then we had dinner and we played cards. And then he told me Friday about this and then he got tested. So I'm been spending the last three or four days going. Am I feeling COVID he just heard back from him. He got a he got tested negative, so you're not gonna get Cody. Yay. Yay. Hey, that's good news. This goes, I licked all the forks at dinner. Oh, wow. Sorry. I just had to share. Good. Yes. So the side story on that guys is, you know, if you're spending time with family as we all should, and anybody showing symptoms, and they said, Wow, maybe it's just the flu. We're in a pandemic. Somebody's got a fever and a cough. Think it's COVID do the right thing. Because then I've spent the last four or five days wondering if I've got it. I'm wondering if I infected my family. And we do the other guys. We play golf with the people who work in the restaurant where we're at the people who, you know, clean the golf cards, you know, this is how many different people could have been affected by this. Just because somebody wasn't thinking it was like, well, it can't be me. No, it could be anybody. Be smart. There's your PSA. There's your damn PSA right there. Have a drink on that one.

Carl Caylor :

A lot of my drink. I gotta get another drink.

Dan Frievalt :

Yeah, so posing parting shots,

Michael Mowbray :

ooh, posing. Ah, the last thought I would have and as a pet peeve of mine and some mistake I make still is when you have somebody's not looking at the camera and they're looking off, their eyes are turned too far and you're seeing too much of the wider their eyes. Just notice that if you're seeing a lot of the sclera which is what's called the white of the eye, just zombie eyes, zombie eyes. Yeah, you'll have them just bring their eyes back until you know just keep bringing it back, bring it back doesn't still have to look at the camera. They can still be looking off camera, but don't be getting all the white of the eyes.

Carl Caylor :

Make sure your profile is actually a profile or record to her face. Not in between. Don't let the eye dangle off the cheek. That being said we had a lot of rules today. A lot of things that can help repose But to be honest, I'm trying to forget about all that. The last few years I found, I feel that I'm just too rigid and too structured. And I'm trying to back away a bit and trying to let people be themselves more and instil watch for things that anticipate things that could be issues, but I want to I want to see more emotion in my work and my, with my clients, I want to see more of their story. And sometimes if it means not being quote, unquote, photographically posed correct, then so be it. And that's fine. Just choose wisely where you're going to display those or just because it's something that you liked in the client like, doesn't mean it's well, right for print competition, right. So that's a different it's a whole different thing, a whole different And so but that's something I want to try to be more loose and more interacting more interactive with who I'm photographing instead of worrying about structure and rigidness. At this moment, so, learn the rules first, then break them.

Michael Mowbray :

Pardon? Shut down. Dan, are you gonna cover?

Dan Frievalt :

I would just say real quick. The law of choose which we didn't talk about, but basically, yeah, yeah. Anything that they have to have China have it on different angles. So shoulders, eyes, just different levels, different angels knees. Yeah. I'll give a little bit more dynamic posing and diamond dynamics to your images. So yeah, that's it.

Michael Mowbray :

All right, great, great parting shots. Every week we have a sponsor with a fake sponsor, I should have to say full full truth. And this week is brought to you by tactical nuclear penguin. From brew dog brewing in Scotland, this beer is bold. It's irreverent. And it's uncompromising. So bear with a soul and a purpose, a statement of intent, a modern day rebellion for the craft beer proletariat in our struggle to overthrow the faceless bourgeoisie oppression of corporate soulless beer. Oh my god on this one. But it's set a new world record after creating the strongest beer in the world weighing in ABV, which is alcohol by volume of 32%.

Carl Caylor :

I mean, that's almost, that's done. You're like flavored whiskey Thunder whiskey.

Michael Mowbray :

That's not darn near whiskey. That's tactical nuclear penguin. Oh.

Unknown Speaker :

Wow.

Michael Mowbray :

I mean, I've had I've had like a strong Porter that's been like 15% 32% Are you kidding? That's crazy on your butt. Wow as always, it was fun guys. Until next time, cheers to you. Cheers.

Unknown Speaker :

Cheers. Last call.

Michael Mowbray :

You've been listening to the photo happy hour podcast. Be sure to hit that subscribe button to not miss a single action packed episode and join our photo happy hour Facebook group where we'll post links to the stuff we all talk about. You can find my MoLight gear online@www.molight.com that's geo mo Li gh t comm you can find the Facebook page under MoLight store and I also run the Godox flash help group on Facebook. You can find Dan SR unlocked website at www dot seniors unlocked.com that's seniors with an S at the N unlocked.com and the Facebook group under seniors unlocked and you can find Carl's coaching corner@www.cc photo coach comm cc photo coach.com Till next time, cheers to you

Liam :

I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you want me to pay you to subscribe, I can tell you I don't have money. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills, skills I have acquired over a very long career skills that make me a nightmare if people like you, if you subscribe now, that will be the end of it. I will not look for you. I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you. I will find you and I will annoy you