Get Real: Talking mental health & disability
Get Real presents frank and fearless conversations about mental health and disability, including people with lived experience, frontline workers in the sector, as well as policymakers and advocates. Get Real is produced and hosted by Emily Webb and co-hosted by Karenza Louis-Smith on behalf of ermha365 Complex Mental Health and Disability Services provider (https://www.ermha.org/).
Get Real: Talking mental health & disability
What are Restrictive Practices?
A restrictive Intervention is any practice or intervention that has the effect of restricting the rights or freedom of movement of a person with disability.
The Research Report Restrictive Practices: A Pathway to Elimination, which is available on the Disability Royal Commission website states: "Restrictive practices are at odds with the human rights of people with disability and represent a significant form of violence and coercion".
What are the obligations of NDIS providers and practitioners and the path to elimination?
Our guest is Maddy Bilal, who is a Behaviour Support Practitioner/Senior Clinician at ermha365.
ermha365 provides client-centred, evidence-based specialist behaviour support for people who experience a range of complex and high-risk presentations as a result of their disability and/or mental health condition.
INFO:
Regulated Restrictive Practices Guide (NDIS Commission)
Behaviour Support and Restrictive Practices
Recognising Restrictive Practices: Guide (National Disability Service)
ermha365 provides mental health and disability support for people in Victoria and the Northern Territory. Find out more about our services at our website.
Helplines (Australia):
Lifeline 13 11 14
QLIFE 1800 184 527
13 YARN 13 92 76
Suicide Callback Service 1300 659 467
ermha365 acknowledges that our work in the community takes place on the Traditional Lands of many Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples and therefore respectfully recognise their Elders, past and present, and the ongoing Custodianship of the Land and Water by all Members of these Communities.
We recognise people with lived experience who contribute to GET REAL podcast, and those who love, support and care for them. We recognise their strength, courage and unique perspective as a vital contribution so that we can learn, grow and achieve better outcomes together.
Get Real is recorded on the unceded lands of the Boon, Wurrung and Wurundjeri peoples of the Kulin Nation. We acknowledge and pay our respects to their elders, past and present. We also acknowledge that the First Peoples of Australia are the first storytellers, the first artists and the first creators of culture and we celebrate their enduring connections to country knowledge and stories. Celebrate their enduring connections to country knowledge and stories.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Get Real talking. Mental health and disability brought to you by the team at Burma 365.
Speaker 1:Join our hosts, Emily Webb and Carenza Louis-Smith, as we have frank and fearless conversations with special guests about all things mental health and complexity with special guests about all things mental health and complexity.
Speaker 3:We recognise people with lived experience of mental ill health and disability, as well as their families and carers. We recognise their strength, courage and unique perspective as a vital contribution to this podcast so we can learn, grow and achieve better outcomes together.
Speaker 4:Welcome to Get Real talking mental health and disability. I'm Emily Webb, erma 365 CEO. Corenza-louis-smith is here, too, and we're going to talk about restrictive practices. Corenza-louis Smith is here, too, and we're going to talk about restrictive practices, also known as restrictive interventions, in the context of the mental health and disability services sector and the pathway to reduce and ultimately eliminate their use. A restrictive intervention is any practice or intervention that has the effect of restricting the rights or freedom of movement of a person with disability. In Australia, we follow legislation that promotes and protects the rights of people with a disability, the overarching being the Convention of the Right of People with Disabilities. The National Disability Insurance Scheme Act 2013 outlines how NDIS providers like OMER 365 and behaviour support practitioners meet their obligations under this Act. Before we introduce our guest, carenza, this is not my area of expertise, so can you explain why we're talking about this really important topic? Because you suggested it and I think we're going to need a few episodes to cover all the issues.
Speaker 5:Oh, my word, that is such a huge question.
Speaker 5:Emily, it's great to be back on the podcast and I think talking about specialist behaviour support is really important, not least in light of what's happening at the moment in the NDIS.
Speaker 5:Specialist behaviour support is really here to help guide disability support workers.
Speaker 5:If we talk about the disability setting to understand a person's challenging behaviours and how to support them to live I guess you know their best lives. It's a really critical role that is played by practitioners and in fact, you know, emily, that when we talk about practitioners, when we think about behaviour support practitioners and occupational therapists, they are two of the five hardest jobs to recruit for right now in Australia, which is terrible when you think about how do disability services support people with complex and challenging behaviours when you can't get the staff who can come in and actually prepare really specialised and nuanced strategies that disability support workers can deliver quality services that help keep participants safe and keep workforce safe, keep the community safe, but also give participants the things that they need to really thrive. So I think this is a really interesting conversation. I'm really keen to, like you said, this could definitely be a series, but to be talking about this. It's such a topical issue at the moment. It's something that we should be really all across.
Speaker 4:Our guest is Maddy Bilal and we are very grateful to have her here. Maddy is a behaviour support practitioner, senior clinician with Therma 365, and she is very expert in this area and Carenza. You suggested Maddy as being the guest for us, so welcome Maddy. Thanks so much for your time.
Speaker 6:What a passionate start. Karenza and Emily. I absolutely share her sentiments. I would start with that I've been working as a behaviour support practitioner typically since 2021, but prior to working specifically in this role, I've had extensive experience in working in fields of disability case management, youth and family services, refugee settlement and training. Now, all these experience that expands over the course of 20 years has given me a very unique insight towards the importance of fostering inclusion and independence in our communities. Communities, specifically at IRMA 365,. I am providing clinical supervision and ad hoc advices to clinicians to ensure the delivery of high quality of positive behaviour support across the board, including all the stakeholders that are working with the participant. I'm also overlooking participants with complex needs myself. In addition to that, my role also entails clinical review of behaviour support plans, all the functional behaviour analysis reports, support letters and any other documentation to ensure clinical excellence and continued improvement.
Speaker 4:There's always a lot of frameworks, isn't there? I know, right, that's what I think. When I see the stuff that we do, I'm like, wow, there are a lot of frameworks to comply with. And yeah, I am really, really interested in hearing about this topic because, as I shared, you know, when we first met to talk about this, I'm not a disability or mental health practitioner. I work in communications and advocacy and, honestly, the first thing that came to my mind when restrictive practices is mentioned is, oh, actual physical restraints. And then, thinking more about it, you know, it's good, I think, for everyone to get an understanding. So, maddie, what are defined as restrictive practices? Because I think it's important to define these. As I said before, I had a very limited view of it. I've not had experience personally of having a family member or loved one who has had restrictive practices done to them or done to myself. So what are we talking about?
Speaker 6:Very good point that you've raised, emily. I think this is a very common theme of understanding of restrictive practices in the sector, especially when we're going out to a participant's family or meeting their care teams. We have to like redefine what restrictive practices actually entail and I would say that, although there is a lot more understanding around the restrictive practices which I might be referring to as RPs Now, when I started working as a PBS practitioner four years ago, I believe that there is a huge shift in the understanding. People are more aware of it. I would say actually more talking about it a bit more than actual awareness. In terms of the definition, ndis has given a very specific definition that a restrictive practices basically mean that any practices or interventions that has the effect of restricting the rights of freedom of movement of a person with disability. It is a very broad definition, but it is the true definition. So restrictive practices are typically categorized into two broad categories at this stage in the sector. So any restrictive practices that are regulated are called regulated restrictive practices. And then we have prohibited restrictive practices as well, and that happened in December 2019 because the Disability Reform Council endorsed prohibiting certain practices. I'm not going to go into detail of those but, just for the sake of example, practices like pinning down, practices like basket hold, takedown techniques, so any physical restraint that has a purpose or effect of restraining or inhibiting a person's respiratory or digestive functioning all those restrictive practices were deemed as prohibited. There is a long list. There's a disclaimer here and I will definitely be leaving links for Emily to share, but restrictive practices like that were prohibited in 2019. And you'll be surprised, emily, that how many times we actually go out there and we take a look at the way people are being handled and the responses to the behavior those restrictive practices are prohibited, illegal to use, and we go out there and try to educate and give some sort of capacity building around that for the teams who are implementing it or the family or carers.
Speaker 6:The second part of the restrictive practices that we say they are regulated are the restrictive practices that are used in the sector. There are five kinds of restrictive practices. It's not just physical restraint, as a lot of people assume. There are five and if you want, I'm happy to give a brief definition and example. Yes, please, fantastic.
Speaker 6:So I think the most common one that we use in the sector which is not deemed as a restrictive practice by a lot of people is seclusion. Now this is a sole confinement of a person with disability in a room or a physical space at any hour of the day or night, where voluntary exit is prevented or not facilitated. Now any example that you know how common it is to give people time out as a response of their behavior. When their access is actually limited, they can't go out of the room or there's an illusion that is created for them that unless you calm down, you are not going to be allowed to get out of that room. Now that is seclusion and it is a restrictive practice.
Speaker 6:The second most common thing, that restrictive practice type that we see, which is not deemed a restrictive practice, are the prescribed medication. Now those are called chemical restraint. Now, use of medication or any chemical substance for the primary purpose of influencing a person's behavior is an actual definition of a chemical restraint. It comes as a lot of surprise when we tell parents or the carers that the two milligram melatonin that you're giving to little Johnny is actually a restrictive practice.
Speaker 4:Wow, I'm sorry this is making my brain burst a bit hearing this.
Speaker 6:Yes, so you need to have an identified diagnosis to be able to administer melatonin as well, like sleeping disorder, but a lot of time. This medication and that's just an example this medication is being given just to make sure that you are a little bit more calm. People take some rest as well, so that it is modifying their behavior, so it is definitely deemed as restrictive practice in certain circumstances. However, it is also important to understand with chemical restraint that there are medications that are given for different purposes. If a medication is given as a result or as a consequence of a prescription to treat a disorder, then it is not deemed as a chemical restraint. But if the same medication is used to modify a behavior which is not related to that particular diagnosis, it is a chemical restraint. And, as I said before, we will be leaving some links for the listeners.
Speaker 6:The third kind of restraint that we talk about is a mechanical restraint. Now again, we haven't touched the physical restraint that you spoke about, emily. We haven't even gone there yet. Now, mechanical restraints are also quite interesting restraints that we see in this sector. Basically, it is defined as the use of a device to prevent, restrict or subdue a person's movement for the primary purpose of influencing a person's behavior, but that does not include the use of devices for therapeutic purposes, the use of splints or gloves or helmets to prevent a person from self-harming like headbanging or scratching themselves. These are all actually mechanical restraint, and this is also sometimes when we go to a person's house and the parents tell us are we be using this glove from last 20 years? And now you're telling us it's a restraint and we go yes, because have we tried strategies from the last 20 years to prevent him from using it.
Speaker 6:Then the fourth kind of restraint, which is also very, very interesting and I would say probably the most misunderstood kind of restraint, is an environmental restraint. Still not talking about physical restraints here. Now, the environmental restraints are the restrictive practices defined as restraints. That restricts a person's free access to all parts of the environment, not some, all parts of the environment, including items or activities.
Speaker 4:Okay. So we're talking about environment, as in everything like a house, public access and items Okay.
Speaker 6:Absolutely so. If, for example, little Billy is showing a lot of behaviours in a play centre and we say, you know what, we're not going to take Little Billy to a play centre, that is an environmental restraint. Okay. If Johnny is going to abscond in shopping centres, you know what, we're going to take shopping centres out of his environment of access. That is an environmental restraint, okay.
Speaker 5:Wow, I imagine, maddy, you know if you're a parent and you're listening to this like, these are the things like if you're a parent of a child with a disability like your, you know your primary concern is I don't want to take Johnny to the shopping centre because when that happens, want to do what's best for my child and keep them safe and look after them. So it's a really hard thing, isn't it, I think, for families at times to navigate and understand and think about.
Speaker 6:Absolutely, and this is why the behaviour support practitioner will go out there and try to give them, like, some sort of modifications. Let's keep the access to all the environments, whether it is certain power area within their environment, even like access control to the kitchen, that is also an environmental restraint. So, talking to them about how can we enrich the environment and how can we address the functions or the factors that are causing the behavior, rather than restricting their access to certain places. And then, last but not the least, the most used concept of restrictive practice the physical restraint.
Speaker 6:Now, physical restraint or restrictive practice is the use or action of physical force to prevent, restrict or subdue movement of a person's body or part of their body for the primary purpose of influencing their behavior. Again, it is very important to note that physical restraint does not include the use of hands-on-hand technique, so a lot of these techniques are used by OTs or physiotherapists, anything like that. This is not a restrictive practice. It's basically could be holding a person's hand down to prevent them from hitting themselves or grabbing someone, so that you know if they're moving towards ongoing traffic and you're grabbing their arm to pull them towards you or keep them in a safe way. That's a restrictive practice, so this is like the perception, but the reality is that there are way more than one kind of restrictive practices out there.
Speaker 5:Maddy, I think that's such an interesting thing, isn't it? Because I want to quote the research report Restrictive Practices a Pathway to Elimination, which is available on the Disability Royal Commission's website Now. The authors state that restrictive practices are at odds with the human rights of people with a disability and represent a significant form of violence and coercion. And yet, listening to the things that you're talking about, I would imagine there would be a bunch of listeners listening here that would actually not agree with that. I think this is a really interesting part of the conversation I'd love to have today. Can you talk a bit more in the context of the obligation, in particular about NDIS providers now and practitioners and the path to actually having the least possible amount of restrictive practices to support a person, because the Disability Royal Commission has heard so many instances whether it's statements and submissions about the use of restrictive practices on people with a disability that are just way too many, not appropriate, used to control, you know.
Speaker 5:So there's this big dilemma. I kind of sort of see these scales, you know, in my hand. On one hand, you know, here's the human rights and dignity of people, and then, on the other hand, here's the restrictive practices part of this debate. How do you strike this balance and get this right so that you have the least restrictive practices possible? Because obviously you don't want you know, karenza to step into the traffic and be hit by a car. Right, you're not going to stand back and say, oh sorry, karenza, I'm going to let you choose to do that. It's the balancing of these things, and how do NDIS providers, registered and unregistered, I guess, really understand this and balance that to get that balance right?
Speaker 6:That's an extremely important question that you've asked, karenza, because this is a question that is out there in the sector, especially when we go out there and we are telling the parents and the carers and the whole team that what you're doing is a restrictive practice, whether it's a prohibited restrictive practice or it's a restrictive practice that needs the regulation. My answer to this is we need to get the sector more educated and trained around that. Restrictive practices are regulated because we need to protect the rights of people. Restrictive practices are regulated also because we understand that in the sector, there are times that we will need those restrictive practices to keep the person with the disability safe and keep the community safe. So, yes, understanding this is really really important.
Speaker 6:I think I can commend NDIS around the fact that there are some very regulated and very well-documented guidelines that are being given. For example, there are some very key legislative guidelines that need to be followed by everyone who is involved in all the aspects of implementing restrictive practices, right from the one who are using the restrictive practice on the people with disability, the people who need to report the restrictive practices to the commission and the people who are there to fade out those restrictive practices, and we don't have enough time to go around all of that but just for the sake of the work that we do at Irma we have got excellent support workers working with a lot of clients with complex needs and we've got PBS, and PBS are here in positive behavior support PBS clinicians working on ground with those support workers to guide the use of restrictive practices as well. Now there are certain reporting obligations and authorization requirements by the NDIS, which means that all registered NDIS providers and NDIS PBS practitioners need to be aware of the reporting obligations. They need to follow their own state and territory authorization, consent and reporting requirements which are consistent with relevant legislation. And here we are following the Victorian guidelines. So a lot of times we have probably heard the portal called PRODA. That's where any behaviour support plan with the restrictive practices, whether it's implemented by registered or unregistered service provider or by family all those plans need to be uploaded. If the restrictive practices are implemented by a registered service provider, they need to get the authorization letter to get those restrictive practices implemented by their staff.
Speaker 6:And I'm making it sound very, very simple. It's not that simple. There is a lot of paperwork that goes into it. All the behavior support practitioners need to report a restrictive practice within 30 days of engagement when they identify a restrictive practice, and they need to develop an interim behavior support plan.
Speaker 6:And then there is another part, another layer to it, which is like within six months we need to develop a functional behavior analysis to identify the functions of the behavior and then say what kind of restrictive practices do we recommend or we can endorse as PBS practitioner, what kind of restrictive practices do we recommend or we can endorse as PBS practitioner? And then the cycle of getting those approved and getting those reported begins again. Look, I must say that we still have a long way to go, like we still have a long way to go to understand and eliminate and probably to fade out all the restrictive practices, but we're getting there. Personally, I do like the idea of reporting and continuous monitoring of the user restrictive practices and that's what we are implementing in the sector and I can say for sure that at Irma we are doing it.
Speaker 5:So I'm going to be a bit controversial. I think there are situations and circumstances that people find themselves in where a restrictive practice is crucial, and it might be that they're doing things that put their life at risk, for example, and so those restrictive practices are in place. It might be someone who has a behavior where they set fire to their home or burn things down. You know so you have those practices. So there's a place for restrictive practices. I don't know if there's an argument about that. Do you think that there are? And again I'm being slightly controversial do you think that restrictive practices over time can decrease, or does it depend on the person, or is it part of a bigger picture, in a way that you look at things?
Speaker 6:Absolutely. Again, a very good question, karenza, and I would say it's not as controversial as we think it is. It is like literally giving people their right of choice and right of movement back, and that's what we call, in technical term, a fade-out plan. So every behavior support plan with a restrictive practice should come with a fade-out plan that very clearly defines the time duration and all the aspects that goes into implementation, including the rationale, timeframe and bits and bobs that go into identifying what the restrictive practice is. What other strategies can be used prior to implementing.
Speaker 6:A restrictive practice is what could be a capacity building or skill building that could go towards the team, towards the staff, towards a person with a disability, to eventually reduce and, if safe sorry, it's very important to note in regards to your question if it is safe to remove a restrictive practice, then yes, we will remove it. I also like to make a very clear point here that, being a PBS practitioner, we always aim to reduce and eliminate. We come from a belief that restrictive practices can be avoided, if I must say it, but obviously this is not the reality of sector. Just to remind you here that prohibited restrictive practices were identified in 2019. So we are pretty fresh in identifying the restrictive practices as prohibited and illegal to now, moving towards reducing and eliminating, so we are pretty new to it.
Speaker 5:I would say and Maddy, that seems so recent, like 2019. I mean, like seriously, I just kind of put my hands in my head and just go. Are you kidding me? It's taken us that long to say what we're actually going to say is prohibited.
Speaker 6:Absolutely, Absolutely. It is mind baffling, I must say. But it's also the more awareness we're getting out in the sector, the more we are getting educated ourselves and the more we're getting trained around, that I think the awareness is definitely increasing, but we have a long way to go.
Speaker 4:When I hear the reference to registered NDIS providers have this rigorous reporting schedule around the use, it actually makes me really concerned about unregistered providers and the big question about how do you monitor and know what everyone's doing. You know, at the time of recording yesterday, I watched the National Press Club address and Bill Shorten was doing it and he had some really stark points about the NDIS in terms of some of the failings that had happened with the previous government. This isn't a political statement, this is just what he said. But you know, the fact is that all the criticism that the NDIS comes in for now the general public, like it's a rort, it's a money, you know, grabbing exercise, and the fact that he quoted that 90% of NDIS providers are unregistered, like I didn't even understand, like how that could be possible. So I guess my question is there's obviously a lot of scope for still the misuse of this, and Corenza is going to cover this a bit more in her question, but I just wondered your thoughts about that. Sure.
Speaker 6:Emily, I think you've asked a very, very important and relevant question. I have a very and I must say it's not as controversial as it could be, but I believe that, as we were talking about involvement of the whole sector, you know NDIS in itself is pretty new as opposed to the previous form of disability insurance. We have to understand that there are people with disabilities who have been working with unregistered providers for a very, very long time and there's a lot of trust and work that families have put in to find those people who are kind of like in a very great kind of trustworthy connection with people of disabilities. Personally, I would like all the disability service providers to be registered and there is a reason, there is a very solid reason behind that. I would believe that the registration process lot of disability service providers who are independent and working privately or working with a service who has been in the sector from the good odd 20 years but is just not educated or not well aware or, to be frank with you, are not advocating for use of any restrictive practice whatsoever, so they are refusing to get registered. So there's so many layers to it, it's not as simple. So I would believe that NDIS needs to, just like in any other way. They need to sit down with the people who are actually providing those services and understanding their viewpoint and then including them in the decision-making so that we can address this very important issue in the sector.
Speaker 6:Take a look at the stats. If it is actually 90% of the disability service workers out there who are unregistered, we are talking about a very big workforce. Here we are talking about exceptional workers who have got exceptional bond with their people with disabilities. We have to listen to their voice, invite them on the table of discussion and then make a policy. I was talking to a disability service provider and I was capacity building them around that how they need to get registered to be able to work with this particular family, and they said that they have put the application out from the last nine months without anyone getting back to them. We are talking about nine months that person with a disability without any support from a person that that person with disability can trust. They're working with registered providers, great providers, but not the people that they can trust. So I would like us to think about how it is impacting the quality of life of that person with disability.
Speaker 4:Corinne. So when we talk about registered NDIS providers and unregistered, what does that mean? Because I guess if you're not working in the space or you're using the service, to me it sounds like, oh well, it's not as good. That's just thinking generally. So what is the actual, the meaning?
Speaker 5:of it. Well, it's really interesting. Em I think you know I mean Em is a registered provider and as I can certainly talk about our experience as a registered provider, so we have to be accredited, we have to be audited. We have auditors that come in and will spend up to a week. They will talk to the people that we support. They will look at our systems, our policies, how well we quality and safeguard people.
Speaker 5:We have to report, as Maddy has said, all restrictive practices, including any unauthorised restrictive practices that might occur, and be accountable for those. And I think that certainly there are a lot of, you know, emphasis and onus on that with registered providers, but also we're a larger organisation. So we have some of the resources that support that. And I think Maddy's touched on a really important point how does the scheme create a better service, I think broadly, for people with disabilities? And you know I think the monitoring around restrictive practices is such an important issue. It should occur whether you're registered or unregistered, which kind of leads me to my next question. So obviously, behaviour support and specialist behaviour support, which is what we do at Irma, is a significant part of our work and we've certainly heard from the Disability Royal Commission and the Royal Commission into Victoria's mental health as well that systemic restrictive practices have been misused, abused and used as punitive measures in many areas of society and many and you know.
Speaker 5:The fact that, maddy, you're saying that there was only a list of bad restrictive practices, things that you can't do anymore that list only came into effect in 2019 just still blows my mind. How can we ensure that training and support for workers registered unregistered if we're talking specifically about the NDIS protects the human rights of people with a disability who display complex, at times challenging behaviours? You know families as well. You know how can we build and I think you're right build that narrative, build that understanding and build the awareness. I think, emily, just listening, you're as a lay person, you're going. Wow, I would never have considered some of those things of restrictive practice If I was keeping my child safe by not going to the shopping centre. I would do that. So how do we start to have some more of that dialogue?
Speaker 6:I would say whenever someone asks this question, my brain just goes into two things. One is more of a emotional side of the brain and the other one is more rational. The emotional side of the brain will say we need to have cultural change, we need to have these conversations, we need to challenge the status quo, we need to prioritise the dignity, autonomy and respect of the person with a disability. That's the foremost thing. And this can involve challenging the norms, practices that we think are going to keep us safe, but are they really keeping us safe or they're actually inhibiting the rights of the person with a disability? Once the culture change is happening within the organization, or you know the sector in a broader way, then the organization need to embrace a philosophy which is a bit more person-centered and support, and we do it perfectly at Irma Like. We're constantly having those conversations, we're constantly getting challenged within our policies and procedures and we constantly keep them updated.
Speaker 6:Our staff is currently going through trainings as well. Our previous practitioners do receive some regular clinical supervision to make sure that we are completely working within this framework of changing the culture. The second thing I think that is very important, it is training and education. I think comprehensive training for the staff, comprehensive training aimed towards the support staff in training them in alternative approaches, rather than restrictive practices, to manage challenging behaviours. It is very, very vital that we go through the pathway of training Now that can include the response strategies and that can also include the preventative strategies. That needs to be trained in order to prevent a behaviour of concern from happening, because all restrictive practices are typically just to address a behaviour of concern. So I think these two things are really, really critical to be implemented.
Speaker 4:You know this conversation is really opening my mind and thoughts to the fact that we are talking about restrictive practices in the context of the NDIS and disability support. But you know I'm reflecting back as a parent. My children don't access the NDIS. They both have ADHD, though, which was diagnosed later. But you know, just thinking about everyday life, there's a lot of stuff we do that are restrictive practices. So I think this is really going to make people think.
Speaker 6:I would say behaviour support practice is definitely not everyone's gig. You have to have your heart in it. You have to believe in the rights of people, you have to believe that behaviours have got reasons. There are functions of the behaviours. Every behaviour is communicating something. I would say that you know 20 years of my career. This is the most rewarding job that I'm in at the moment. Once you understand that every behavior serves a purpose and you are there for the right reason and you are there not just to give response strategies or the behavior support plans to the teams. You're there to make a difference and you're there to enhance the quality of that person's life. I would, however, say that for the new workforce that is planning to become a behaviour support practitioner, do your research. Make sure that you are actually joining a company where there is excellent clinical supervision available, where there is support available. Yes, we are definitely the one, but I would definitely encourage the people to consider these as a great rewarding addition to their work.
Speaker 4:This is specialist work, working with people with complex mental health and disability. It's not for everyone right, and the people who do it the people I've seen at Irma who do it are really passionate and they're very skilled and they know the people they're working with and that makes the people they're working with feel safe. And the little wins like the progress is, you know, to many people we think, well, that's not much, it's huge. It's like a reduce in the amount of incidents reported to RiskMan. It means that someone isn't going to hurt themselves. They've found a way to express themselves. And this has been such a great conversation and there's going to be more to talk about, because I think we've just scratched the surface. And, maddy and Corenza, it's a real privilege to hear you both talking about this and to have this podcast be available for people to listen to. So, maddy, have we got any final thoughts before we wrap up and we will be speaking to you again.
Speaker 6:Absolutely, Emily. I think the conversation is ongoing. The conversation is not going to stop. We will keep advocating for the rights of the people with disabilities. That primary goal of behaviour support is to improve the for the rights of the people with disabilities. That primary goal of behaviour support is to improve the quality of life of the person with disabilities. Reduction of the behaviours of concern is always a secondary goal.
Speaker 4:Thank you so much, maddy and Karenza, and we're going to put in some information in the show notes. So, listeners, if you want to hear more and I'll certainly be deep diving more There'll be links to some of the information referenced in this episode, as well as other resources that Maddie will provide. And please do share this episode because it's really important. There's the advocacy part and also it's really interesting information. So, thank you for listening and please share this episode with your friends and family, co-workers, and also rate and review, because it actually helps more people find us. So, thanks, corenza, thanks Maddie.
Speaker 2:You've been listening to Get Real talking mental health and disability, brought to you by the team at Irma365. Get Real is produced and presented by Emily Webb, with Corenza Louis-Smith and special guests. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next time.
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