NDIS Changes Part 1 with National Disability Services CEO Michael Perusco

The NDIS will be undergoing signifcant reform. The Disability Trust Group CEO Karenza Louis-Smith speaks with National Disability Services CEO Michael Perusco to unpack the newly announced NDIS reforms -  what is clear right now, what is still unknown, and how these changes could reshape eligibility, plans, and supports outside the scheme.

More info:

Information on the proposed reforms to the NDIS (Australian Government)

National Disability Services (NDS) 

How will the changes to the NDIS affect me? Five key takeaways from the government's planned overhaul (ABC News, 22 April 2026)

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Transcript

Acknowledgement And Reform Context

SPEAKER_00 0:00

GetRel is recorded on the unceded lands of the Boonerong and Warundari peoples of the Kulin Nation. We acknowledge and pay our respects to their elders, past and present. We also acknowledge that the first peoples of Australia are the first storytellers, the first artists, and the first creators of culture, and we celebrate their enduring connections to country, knowledge, and stories.

SPEAKER_02 0:28

Welcome to GetReal, talking mental health and disability. Brought to you by the team at Uber365.

SPEAKER_01 0:34

Join our hosts Emily Webb and Carinha Lewis Smith as we have frank and fearless conversations with special kids about mental health and disability.

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We recognize people with experience of mental health and disability as well as we recognize their strength, courage, and unique perspective as a vital contribution to this podcast so we can learn, grow, and achieve better outcomes together.

SPEAKER_05 1:10

Welcome to Get Real, Talking Mental Health and Disability. I'm Emily Webb. This is a special episode of Get Real to talk about the announced reforms to the NDIS, which came on Wednesday, the 22nd of April, by Minister Mark Butler in a national press club address. More details about these changes to the scheme will follow in the 2026-2027 federal budget to be delivered in a week's time. Here to talk about this with the Disability Trust Group CEO Karenza Louis Smith is National Disability Services CEO Michael Perusco. National Disability Services, known as NDS, is the peak national body for Australia's disability service organisations. Here's Kerenza and Michael.

SPEAKER_07 2:03

Michael, thank you so much for uh joining us today. I can imagine that things have been going at 100 miles an hour for you ever since the announcement was made. And also for our listeners, full disclosure, we are a member of NDS. I think the Disability Trust has actually been a member for many, many, many, many years.

SPEAKER_03 2:22

Yeah, I was at your site in the Illora presenting a 30-year membership milestone certificate at your cafe there. It was fantastic. Really nice.

Who NDS Represents And Why

SPEAKER_07 2:34

Very, very proud to be members. But first, can you just tell us a bit about NDS and its role as the pig body for, I guess, disability service organizations across the country? And we'd like to get to know the people that we're chatting to. So also a little bit about yourself as well.

SPEAKER_03 2:49

So I have run organisations for a long time now. Uh so St. Vincent of Paul Society in New South Wales, and then Berry Street here in Victoria, and a couple of others, a little bit of time in government, and been doing this role for 18 months. This is a fantastic role. It is so much fun. I have a lot of fun in this role. We represent about, well, there's a you know, a couple of hundred members, a few hundred members in each state and territory, and they're the quality providers in the NDIS and NDS's role, my role is to represent them in the policy discussion, but also support those organizations in in practical ways. And I think one of the reasons I love my job so much is I just absolutely passionately in it, every fibre of my being knows the NDIS is going to be much better if these organizations continue to be a part of the NDIS. And, you know, at times that's at risk, and for some organizations that's at risk. And certainly every organization is under financial, immense financial pressure. And I think that really needs to change if we're to get to a point where the NDIS is completely back on track. So, you know, I see us as having a really important role in the coming years, given what was announced on Wednesday.

SPEAKER_07 4:28

We're very, very, very lucky to have you. Because I said I as I said at the start, I imagine that you know your team are absolutely flat chat because these changes and reforms that are announced are huge. This is a very special podcast episode because we're really trying to unpack what some of these changes mean. And in particular, what do they mean for people that receive disability supports and their families and carers? And I think the thing that as a service provider we're hearing is that participants and families feel this is quite a scary time for them. You know, like there was a lot to take in, a lot to understand. I think you can see that as well and across the social media and people are saying, like, what does this mean? What does this mean for us? And I think, you know, you play a really unique role, the NDS. I mean, you get to, I think, as you said, you know, not only hear what those changes are, but hopefully influence them as well along the way. You know, from your perspective, if you were talking right now to people in the scheme, what do you think is the most important thing that people need to kind of understand about the changes that have been announced?

SPEAKER_03 5:35

I think the first thing to say is that it is a very unsettling time for people with disability. And you know, we certainly get that at NDS. I was in Canberra for the speech with Mark Butler, and it was a what was it? It was like a 24-minute speech with about 19 very chunky policy announcements, so a lot to absorb. And I think the key thing that people with disability in their families need to know, or the key things, I think the first one is that the intention of government very, very clearly is to return the scheme to its original intention. And if we look at what they say that means, it's people with significant and lifelong disability. I think the the second thing is that we're going to move to a situation where access to the scheme is going to be through a functional assessment, so how a person's disability impacts on their daily life, and that's a real shift. And I think the other big one is the minister focused a lot on social and community participation. And I I don't think he could have been clearer in saying that that is an area that is going to see a reduction in funding. Like I don't know how you would have you could hear it any other way, like very, very clear. So I think they were the main ones from a provider perspective. I there were some announcements around regulation of providers. And we think that's a good thing because I think it provides people with disability with assurance about where they're getting support from. I think the overarching piece that people with disability, their families need to know now is there is an enormous amount of detail that is to come and is not there. So I I think in these situations you assume that there is more to know than you know. And I guess I would want to assure your listeners that there isn't. That largely what was announced on Wednesday is you know, it was at a high level, and that is really where the thinking is at at the moment. It is at that high level. There were some fact sheets, and people should look at the fact sheets, but don't be surprised, or if you've already looked at them, you'll see there's not a lot of detail. That's where we're at. So a lot of detail come, and we're not going to expect any det any more detail until after the budget on the 12th of May, because these are all budget measures. So, Renza, a very long answer to your question.

SPEAKER_07 8:50

I think that was a really helpful answer because I think you've touched on a couple of really important things. I mean, you said returning the scheme back to what it was originally intended for. You've also said something really important about kind of tightening up who can provide services and what that looks like, because there's a lot of providers, aren't there, some of whom aren't necessarily regulated. And that's something that you think is good. And then I was curious as well about getting into the scheme as well. For people who aren't in the scheme, but getting into the scheme, that's going to change, isn't it? You touched on that when you talked about tightening eligibility. Because there's obviously going to be less people in the scheme in say 10 years' time than was originally forecast. So they're changing that.

SPEAKER_03 9:36

Even in four years' time. So there are going to be 160,000 less people on the scheme in 2030 than was previously forecast. And that is a very big number, given that there are about 720 odd thousand people on the scheme at the moment. Big, big number. And four years is not a very long time. Um, it's not.

SPEAKER_07 10:04

So if I was listening and as, you know, and I've got a plan now, I'd be thinking, am I gonna will my plan stay? Is my plan going to change? What's what's gonna happen to me? And you I I guess they probably I think what I'm hearing you say is right now the the details not there, so the answers aren't there yet.

SPEAKER_03 10:21

No. No, there are the the details are not there. What is clear is the the intention. So that significant and lifelong disability is the language that they've been using. So I think you know, we can take that as a very clear marker about what their intention is, and that is really gonna slow down access to the scheme. And I suspect that will start early next year because the tools aren't gonna be finalized until the end of this year if everything goes on track. So, but what's also gonna happen is as people are reviewed, as their plans are reviewed, then they will be assessed against this new criteria, which inevitably means people are gonna come off the scheme.

SPEAKER_06 11:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 11:19

And potentially people have been on the scheme for quite some time.

Eligibility Tool And ICANN Explained

SPEAKER_07 11:22

Yeah, they did talk a bit about, didn't they, Minister? But they did talk a bit about this tightening of eligibility and this new tool, but I think, am I right? It's called the ICANN, it has a name, I think.

SPEAKER_03 11:32

Oh no, that's that's actually this is something different. Oh, so there's a really, really good point. Okay, so what was announced on Wednesday was there's going to be a new tool called the Eligibility Assessment. And that is going to determine whether people will get access to the scheme or whether they will have will continue to get access to the scheme.

SPEAKER_06 11:55

I see.

SPEAKER_03 11:57

The eligibility assessment tool does not exist at the moment. That is going to be developed by government. So Minister Butler said in the questions by the end of this calendar year.

SPEAKER_07 12:09

Wow. So by Christmas, we'll have that completed.

SPEAKER_03 12:12

Yeah. And that is going to be a very, very, very important tool, very consequential tool. Alongside that, for people who get into the scheme using that eligibility assessment, their plans are going to be developed using a support needs assessment. And the tool used there is the ICANN.

SPEAKER_07 12:36

Oh, I see. So, Michael, well, the change is there's two steps then. So for people right now in the scheme, it would become different. So you have to be checked, are you eligible to come into the scheme? Yes, no. Yes, you're into the scheme. Then there's this new assessment that happens that says, okay, this will help us decide what are the things that go in your plan.

SPEAKER_03 12:56

Yes.

Foundational Supports Outside The NDIS

SPEAKER_07 12:57

Okay. So there's been a lot of conversation as well about people, this type of people who who go through their eligibility checker and they don't qualify for what the NDIS scheme looks like. Some people are probably hearing for the first time the term foundational supports, which is talked about the other pathways. And if you come along and at that first assessment, if you know, sorry, Karenzo, you know, your disability doesn't meet the threshold to come into the scheme. There is something else here that's going to support you. I think people have heard, some people have heard it's been this, it's been talked about for a while, but some people may hear this for the first time. What are foundational supports then? So if I don't get into the scheme, there might be this new pathway called foundational supports. What what's that?

SPEAKER_03 13:42

Yeah, it's a very unhealthy term, actually. It doesn't really give you any sense of what it is at all. Um look, it it's basically the supports for people with disability outside of the NDIS. And the thinking has been that they're largely going to be at the state and territory level. The first step in that was thriving kids. And the states and territories and the Australian government came up with an agreement where there was going to be four billion dollars over five years of federal funding, and that's all locked in. There is six billion dollars left in the fund that was initially set up by the Australian government, and it's unclear what that is going to be used for at this point. And it makes sense because what the minister did on Wednesday was really mark out for the first time who was going to be in and out of the scheme on an ongoing basis. So at a high level, I should say, at a high level. So using that as the marker, what do you need outside of the scheme? And that is a conversation that the Australian government needs to have with the states and territories. And the states and territories are saying, Well, we don't know what this should look like. We haven't really been given the detail from the Commonwealth, and we already do a lot in the states and territories, you know, we need a lot more money to do it, and this always happens in negotiations between the states and territories and the Australian government. They want more money from this Australian government, and the Australian government want the states and territories to do more. So what we can expect over the next few months is a hell of a lot of argy bargy, and then they'll agree on something. But I I it is very clearly going to be less than what people get on the scheme if they're currently on the scheme or think they might get onto the scheme. That what's available at the state and territory level is, I think, inevitably going to be less than what people would get on the scheme.

SPEAKER_07 16:06

Yeah. So thinking about that, Michael, so right at the very beginning, so I'm thinking about people that who are in the scheme who meet a term called psychosocial disability, which is basically another way of saying mental health, right? So that will be a bit of a change, won't it, then, from the eligibility criteria. Is there is isn't there a conversation ha happening, as I understand it, that psychosocial supports might also become part of foundational support. So you don't meet the disability criteria, but we've got a different pathway or place for supports for you.

SPEAKER_03 16:43

Look, I'm a little less clear about that after Wednesday. Minister Butler, in I think it was in answer to one of the questions, he was pretty clear that if you have a psychosocial disability, you should be on the scheme. And I think what he was saying was if you have a significant and lifelong psychosocial disability, then the assessment, the eligibility assessment tool should mark you as getting support from the NDIS.

SPEAKER_07 17:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 17:17

I think the the question is if there are lower levels of support needs, then what does that look like? And I guess how does that interface with the various mental health systems? But I think a really important point to take out of it, which I took out of it, was if you have a psychosocial disability, then what he said was you should be on the scan.

SPEAKER_07 17:46

Oh wow. So that's really interesting.

SPEAKER_03 17:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 17:49

I'm thinking questions to ask for our listeners because there's so much here to try and understand, Michael. It's like and I've I've been in this sector since the NGIS started, and I'm struggling to understand it all. It's quite complicated, isn't it?

SPEAKER_06 18:01

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 18:02

So so what from what you're describing, eligibility screening, some the majority of people will stay in the scheme, the biggest number stays in. A much smaller number of people won't meet the eligibility criteria. They will have a hopefully what you're describing, have a pathway to something else, but that pathway hasn't really been developed yet or defined. The states and territories have to battle it out with the government. They then have to work that out.

SPEAKER_06 18:29

Yeah.

Co-Design And Social Participation Funding

SPEAKER_07 18:30

I was reading LinkedIn over the weekend and listening to what people were saying. There were lots of calls from organizations saying, okay, understand what you're trying to do, but when you create this, you you really need to co-design it with people with lived and living experience. The whole nothing about us without us, you know, you shouldn't be designing something. You can work it out with the states and territories, but what it looks like, you need to have us as part of that conversation. Is that a view that NDS that you hold?

SPEAKER_03 18:58

Oh, yeah, for sure. I think that the perspectives of people with disability going to be so important in getting these settings right. Emma Bennison from the CEO of Dharna did a really good piece on her LinkedIn, I think it was at the end of last week, and just challenging this idea that we're going back to the n this nirvana that existed before the NDIS, and you know, it was anything but, and also what social community participation means for her personally as a as a person who's blind. And when I read her piece, I just thought, you know, the the senior people talking about social and community participation, I don't get what she just articulated. And it's not through any ill will, but Emma brings a really important perspective to what is social and community participation. And for her, it is not a disability support worker sitting on their phone while she's having a coffee, which you know was what was the example that was used by Minister Butler. And it it goes to the point that the targets that were announced last week were significant and they're going to have to be implemented in a short period of time. And the danger in doing that is that you make kind of blunt decisions. So that's what we're very attuned to, and we're very very clear that we need to be working with our colleagues in well, you know, I need to be working with Emma, I need to be working with Maeve at Inclusion Australia and others to make sure that we're on the same page and say to government, you know, giving our advice to government about the the way forward. Because I would equally say you need the perspectives of quality providers during this period as well. And it doesn't mean you have to listen to everything people with disabilities say, it doesn't need mean you have to listen to everything providers say, but my God, they're an important source of intelligence in this. Yeah. Um and have the deep knowledge. And they the view should be taken into, should be taken into account.

SPEAKER_07 21:43

Yeah, and you talked about the social and community participation piece. So let's go there. So this is the bit that you've said that Minister Butler said, we're actually going to change this. Like we're spending too much money here, we're going to spend less money here. It probably means that. People's plans are going to become smaller. And he gave some examples, didn't he, of plan sizes? Like I I think there was a plan that was, you know, a plan was from that would go from an average of 31,000 to 25,000. They talked about some specific numbers, didn't they? What does that mean practically for people? So have I received that? That's in my plan. I'm getting some help around social and community participation. I can expect to see that is going to become less, but how quickly?

SPEAKER_03 22:28

Once again, there is no detail. So I just want to make it clear that people aren't missing out on any detail. I think it is safe to assume that if you have a package, your budget for social and community participation is going to reduce by some level. I think we, along with the disability representative organizations, have we have a role in educating government about the transformational aspect of social and community participation funding, that it is not a waste of money and is a life-changing part of people's packages and connections. Now, that's not to say that it can't be used more effectively or more efficiently, but it is to say that it's not something that can be handled in a blunt way. And if it is, then that is gonna have a lot of really unintended consequences. And I think once again I'll point to Emma's piece because I just thought it was really powerful. She walks through an example and in in her own life. And I think you know, we need to be saying very clearly to government it's more complex than the way in which they're talking about it. We understand where they want to get to, but there's a lot of nuance there.

SPEAKER_07 24:14

Yes. Okay. So I think for people, because I think that's where there's a lot of angst, a lot of anxiety, a lot of what does this mean? The the detail's not there yet, but it is definitely going to change. Do you think people will have opportunities to influence that? Or is it just going to be this hard, blunt instrument, like you say? My plan today, here it is. It's come up for review. I used to have$31,000, now I've got 25, and I just have to suck it up. Or is there any any way that I can influence?

SPEAKER_03 24:47

We don't know. We don't know. And and I think that's why you know we're already thinking about how do we articulate the value of social and community participation to government to inform their thinking. I mentioned before the pace with which these reforms need to occur in order to get to 160,000 less participants in four years is you know is speedy. Really speedy. And it is, I think, really important as a part of this that consideration is given by government as to how the agency uh works at the moment. Because I think uh all of us really would agree there are many opportunities for the agency to engage with people with disability providers, etc., in a more constructive way. And they, as part of these reforms, are going to be making significant decisions. We know that there's a lot of inconsistency in the decisions that are made at the moment. We know it's hard to find someone to talk to. There's a whole lot of complexity in engaging with the NDIA, and I think what the government needs to think about is okay, there's a the the pace of these reforms to get to their target is fast. What needs to be expected of the agency to support that in a way that is different to the way it operates now, needs to be treated with the same urgency.

Consistency Guardrails And Provider Regulation

SPEAKER_07 26:33

Yes. It's interesting what you say then, Michael, because I think some of the criticisms of the scheme broadly have been, you know, I can go to Assessor A and I'll get a plan, I'll go to Assessor B and I'll get a very different plan. One of the changes that you're saying is if these two new pieces of criteria are exactly, you know, like everyone has the same benchmark. So this is the eligibility criteria. You're either in or you're not, no one else gets to decide that. This tool decides it. In some ways, that's a that's different. That's is that I think that's more positive. Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 27:05

I think it it'll I think lead to done well. It should lead to a more equitable scheme. Yes.

SPEAKER_07 27:13

And then with the new assessment tool that I can, the same thing. Everyone's using the same tool. We're not being subjective about this. We're being really, really clear. This is the tool, this is what we're using, this is what works your plan. So people should have a bit more certainty once you're in the scheme about what things look like and what sort of funds you can and can't have. One of the things that that was spoken about too is that the NDIS isn't like everything, you know, like there are other parts, other parts of things that government funds that people with disabilities should be able to have access to and have supports from. So that's some of the thinking, as I understood it as well, is like NDIS can pay for the most important things, but some of those things you might have to find from mainstream. Yeah, that that that do. And I'm assuming that some of that, some of the thinking, and this is just my hypothesis around that sort of social and community participation, is well, we'll do some of it, but we expect your providers to help connect you to other things in the community that help build that for you. Is that a good assumption? I think it is.

SPEAKER_03 28:23

I think it definitely is, and I think it's much more complicated than that as well. I think social and community participation kind of just goes to for many people on the scheme, how do you live your life? How do you get out of bed and do stuff? Yeah. And there are a lot of people on the scheme, and the scheme will largely focus on this group now, who need support to do that.

SPEAKER_07 28:49

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 28:49

And even if they're using something in the community, may need support to just get there, really.

SPEAKER_07 28:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:58

So that's what I was talking about earlier. We we need to be communicating that differently in partnership with the disability representative organizations, just to ensure there's a there's a proper understanding. But I just want to make another point. The announcements talk about returning the scheme to its original intention, putting the guardrails in that mean that it's quality providers who are in the scheme. It's about making sure the eligibility piece is right, and that means that the NDIS kind of bashing that we've seen over the past few years can stop. And I think there has to be a mind shift now in the Australian community that we once again embrace the NDIS for all its wonderful potential and impact. And you know, it's now, I think, uh incumbent upon all of us in leadership positions to just get on and talk it up again.

SPEAKER_07 30:18

Yeah, I agree with you. Because actually, when you look around the world, far out, there's nothing like the NDIS really, is there? There's nothing, and it is it's life-changing, actually. When you see you see this scheme do things that are incredibly amazing and wonderful, yeah. And then you've seen terrible things in the scheme too, haven't we? Like, you know, you you can open up the papers and there's terrible stories of abuse, neglect, rotting the system, crooks, you know. So I mean that the government's sort of saying we've got to clean this stuff up, right? Because we the the the premise is we want this to go back to the vision that we had, which was this world-class scheme where people with disabilities, people that need the most support, most day-to-day support because of their disability, get it. They get the right support, the right level of support, they get it where they need it, when they need it, they get it how they need it. But I also heard that it's become bigger. It's become bigger than we originally wanted it to be, and we don't have enough money to do that. And we also don't think it should be doing that. We should we think it should be doing this for people who most need it, which you know what you said has been quite reassuring because you said that's what, you know, that's what you at the press club, that's what you heard the minister say, which is a positive thing. But it means for some people, doesn't it, who have been getting supports, maybe a lighter touch, for want of a better word. Yeah, you know, outside of the scheme. Outside of the scheme it's gonna be. And for people in the scheme, providers, let's let's go there a bit.

SPEAKER_03 31:51

I just want to say all the talk about fraud, and it definitely does exist, all the talk about dodgy providers, etc., that existed because government enabled that to exist. So it didn't actually happen by accident. There were almost incentives in the scheme for that to occur. So it had nothing to do with the scheme itself, and definitely nothing to do with people with disability. It had everything to do with the lack of guardrails. And I think what the government announced on Wednesday, as well as some of the greater enforcement powers for the Commission that were passed through legislation recently, as well as some of the fraud work, you know, really we can draw a line as of Wednesday and say, okay, well, government is no longer enabling that to occur because all providers do now need to be regulated. There is an intention to have a digital payment system, so there's visibility of payments. I'm gonna stop reflecting on the lack of guardrails in the scheme and the crazy stuff that we see, drawing a line and saying, okay, well, we've got a scheme that's gonna focus on people with significant lifelong disability. This is our chance for it to be the best scheme. The absolute best scheme focused on that group of people, supported by quality providers, and that it is seen as a key plank in the social contract in Australia. So we have industrial relations, we have ASIC looking at fair markets, education system, health systems. The NDIS fits squarely in that. Yes, enough. I agree that they're running it down.

SPEAKER_07 33:47

Yeah. And I think what you're describing, you know, if people are looking, what what are the good things in this announcement? I think that's one of the good things, isn't it? Like, you know, you want to know that the providers that are providing supports to your son or your daughter or your brother or your sister or yourself are good. They're being regulated, they're not taking being, you know, not taking advantage of people. If they make mistakes or do something wrong, they're accountable for it. Those are positive things. Because I think you're right, we want to get this scheme back to being something that everyone is everyone, everybody is proud of. Yeah, you can see as working.

SPEAKER_03 34:22

Yeah, very much so. And we know that people with disability going out with a support worker were feeling like people were looking at them now and you know, with a view to taking advantage, you know, of public resources. I know when a taxi driver or an Uber driver asked me what I do, saying that I represent disability providers in the NDIS, you know, that racing them eyebrows.

SPEAKER_07 34:49

I read it. It's interesting, isn't it? Because someone actually said to Emily and I, it's felt over time that the media and the public have been waging a war against the NDIS. You know, all we've seen are the bad stories, the negative stories. Where are the stories that as I said, it truly is life-changing for people? You know, it it's it's incredible what it does.

SPEAKER_03 35:11

I totally agree with that. I I think though the stories up until now probably served a purpose, and that was to really push government to make the decision, decisions that they made on Wednesday. Because, you know, let's be honest, it's been around for 13 years, and governments haven't made tough decisions. Successive governments of oak persuasions have not made those tough decisions about particularly the guardrails in the scheme. And they desperately needed to be made for lots and lots of reasons, but at its heart people getting good support and safe support. And now that they have been put in place, let's move on.

What To Do Now And Where To Look

SPEAKER_07 36:03

So I'm gonna summarize a bit. So what I'm hearing is these announcements are pretty massive. You know, you know, there's change, it's coming, and it's coming quickly. In this next four years, we're gonna see a lot of things change. Some of those things are for the good, Michael, I think you're saying. So the guardrails around better services, regulated services, safe services, services that, you know, the dignity of care of people, all of those things changes that I think broadly, you know, most people are welcoming.

SPEAKER_06 36:33

Yeah. Tick.

SPEAKER_07 36:34

I suppose so. The other things I think that are are clearer now is that eligibility will be clear, really super clear. So there's, you know, I might say, oh yes, and you might say something different. That's going to change. The eligibility is the same across the board. So you and then when you're in, there's a new special tool again that can't be subjective. So it it would be much clearer in terms of what you will get if you're in the scheme. If you're not in the scheme, there's a new thing of foundational supports and more broader programs and services. That's still to be designed and worked on with the states and territories. But for some people who stay in the scheme, some things might change. So we might see social and participate community participation change. There was a talk about one-on-one supports potentially for some people, might reduce and become more group-based. But also for people who most need the supports, you're still going to keep getting those.

SPEAKER_06 37:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 37:28

So for families listening today and participants in the scheme listening today, there's a lot to digest. Is there anything that people could be doing now? You know, I'm in the scheme right now with a plan right now. You know, should I be talking to my provider? You talked a bit about some fact sheets, you've talked about different peak bodies for consumers and families. You know, as a family member, and I'm feeling overwhelmed. This is a lot, I don't know where to begin. So as I said, we both work in the sector, it's a lot to try and get your head to get your head around, but where could they start? What would you what would you suggest?

SPEAKER_03 38:06

I would actually recommend not starting now. So there is just so much detail that is still to come that I don't think it's worth investing any time at the moment in it because you just don't have the information available to make decisions. And I would just reassure people that they don't know enough because it's not available. Not that they haven't been able to find it. That's important to know.

SPEAKER_07 38:40

And so that so my plan's not going to change tomorrow morning. I'm not going to wake up tomorrow morning and my plan's going to be totally different.

SPEAKER_03 38:47

No, no, I don't think so based on all the announcements. There's a lot of a lot of work to be done to understand what these changes will look like in the way in which the NDIEA operates. Yeah, it's going to take some time to develop that detail. I mean, the the fact sheets are there. If people are interested, then they're on the Department of Health, Disability and Aging website.

SPEAKER_07 39:14

And we'll put those in the show notes as well to this podcast. So if you're listening, you're interested to know a bit more about what Michael's talking about, they will definitely be in the show notes here.

SPEAKER_03 39:23

But they're not going to be, they're not going to change your world. They're good for the for their for their purpose, what they are, but I also just want to reassure people that they're not, if they haven't looked at them, they're not missing a whole lot of detail. That's to come.

SPEAKER_07 39:40

Yeah, and I guess as the detail comes, we'll start to hear more about it, I guess, in the news, on the television, on the radio. There'll be lots more people starting to talk about that. And I suppose my other point, Michael, is you obviously work with some fantastic quality providers. I would imagine those providers would be talking to participants and families and sharing things as they know them too.

SPEAKER_03 40:03

That's right. And our job is to make sure that those providers understand what's going on, that we are giving them the right information, we are passing on everything that we know, we're doing it in different ways, different formats. Because we do know that for our members, there's a hell of a lot to get your head across. So we are very, very focused on that. And then undoubtedly, as you would know from, you know, your your work in the sector, people and their families probably do go to their providers quite a bit. So, you know, that's why we want to make sure that we're providing all the information that we can.

SPEAKER_07 40:53

Well, thank you, Michael, and thank you so much for your time this afternoon. Your insights have been tremendous. You and your team do a phenomenal job. You absolutely do. And it's it's been great to talk to you because I think, yeah, for anyone listening, hopefully there's a little bit more clarity about what some of these changes are. And it would be terrific to have you back again in a few months' time as things start to take a bit more shape. Because I think that you explain things in in a way that's really easy to understand. It was things are actually quite complex and really difficult. So thank you so much for your time today, Michael.

SPEAKER_03 41:25

Yeah, thanks, Kerenza.

SPEAKER_07 41:26

Cheers.

SPEAKER_02 41:29

You've been listening to Get Real, talking mental health and disability, brought to you by the team at Irma365. Get Real is produced and presented by Emily Webb with Karenza Louis Smith and special guests. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time.