Ep 263: Fertility Docs Uncensored and Infertility AF: Meeting of the Minds

This exciting joint episode combines two of today's most popular fertility podcasts: Fertility Docs Uncensored and Infertile AF. Join Dr. Carrie Bedient Fertility Center of Las Vegas, Dr. Abby Eblen from Nashville Fertility Center, and Dr. Susan Hudson from Texas Fertility Center as they chat with Ali Prato from Infertile AF podcast.  In this crossover, the hosts from both shows join forces to discuss fertility from multiple perspectives—scientific, emotional, and personal. On the Fertility Docs Uncensored side, the docs discuss nuances to fertility treatments, the science behind the technology, and how it influences the fertility journey. On the Infertile AF side, Ali readily dives into her own fertility experience and the patient stories of families using fertility treatment to conceive. The dynamic between the expert docs and the candid host creates a great balance where listeners can pick up the detailed information and experiences surrounding IVF, with humor thrown in to lighten the load of what can otherwise be a heavy topic. Join us for this must-listen episode! Have questions about infertility?  Visit FertilityDocsUncensored.com to ask our docs. Selected questions will be answered anonymously in future episodes.

Today's episode is brought to you by Levy and Receptiva 

Transcript

Susan Hudson (00:01)

You're listening to the Fertility Docs Uncensored podcast, featuring insight on all things fertility from some of the top rated doctors around America. Whether you're struggling to conceive or just planning for your future family, we're here to guide you every step of the way.

Susan Hudson MD (00:22)

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Visit www.levy.health/fdu and use code FDU10 at checkout for 10 % off. Levy Health, decoding your fertility.

Carrie Bedient  MD (01:03)

Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Fertility Docs Uncensored. I am Dr. Carrie Bedient from the Fertility Center of Las Vegas, joined by my two sexy, stupendous, sensationally stellar co-hosts, Dr. Abby Eblen from Nashville Fertility Center and Dr. Susan Hudson from Texas Fertility Center.

Abby Eblen MD (01:19)

Hi everybody.

Susan Hudson MD (01:23)

Hello everyone.

Carrie Bedient  MD (01:25)

And this morning, we're, cause we are recording, guess across all three time zones, we are still legitimately eating morning for all three of us. We are recording with Ali Prato, who is the co-founder of Fertility Rally and the founder of the InfertileAF podcast. And so we are so excited to have you with us this morning, Ali.

Abby Eblen MD (01:30)

Yeah!

Ali Prato (01:45)

Hi, thank you so much for having me. I am such a fan of all three of yours and I love what you guys have been doing. And this is so cool to do this crossover episode. Thanks for having me.

So, Ali, how did you get into all of this?

Ali Prato (02:02)

Good question. So I'll give you kind of the Cliffs Notes, I guess. I am a journalist, so I worked in magazines for many, years, and I've always loved interviewing people and telling people's stories. I was working in a job where I wasn't feeling fulfilled, a handful of years ago, and I was at the same time going through my own infertility journey, secondary infertility.

So just to give people a little background in case they don't know, I had my first daughter without assisted reproductive technology. And then my son, after many, many miscarriages and a whole bunch of drama and all the things, I finally had him through IVF. So they're six years apart. She's 15 and he is nine now. So I was going through IVF. It's been like 10 years now, but I realized when I was going through it that I was so on an island, like I felt so alone. And as a writer and someone that's always told other people's stories, I was constantly like, where are the people that are going through this? How come no one's talking about this? You guys can probably attest a lot has changed in the last 10 years plus, thankfully, and it's not as taboo of a topic anymore, but I still like, we're still scratching the surface on infertility in general. And there's still people in the shadows that like don't want to talk about it.

My whole thing was where are these stories? I had my fourth miscarriage and I remember going to the bookstore looking for books about miscarriage or women that, I could relate to because that's how I get through stuff is just by relating to other people and sharing and, trying to be like, is this crazy? Am I normal? All those things. And I couldn't find any books on miscarriage. I mean, the section of the bookshelf was like three inches wide and there was like a couple of like random books and I was like why is no one talking about this? So long story short, I decided to start a podcast. And that podcast is InfertileAF. So I launched that in 2019. It was after I'd had my son, because it took me a couple of years to get through the trauma of everything I'd been through to able to talk about it again. But then I was like, you know what? I need to get these stories out there. So I started with my own story in episode one in March of 2019 and last week, the 311th episode came out. It's been so many different stories. They're all under the umbrella of ART. So it's not just infertility stories, but it's family building, same-sex couples, trans people. I try to be very inclusive. I want to tell all the different stories about people building their families in all these beautiful ways.

Abby Eblen MD (04:16)

Awesome.

Carrie Bedient  MD (04:32)

That's awesome.

Susan Hudson MD (04:36)

You started your podcast just about a year before we started our’s.

 Ali Prato (04:40)

Okay, yeah. And at the time there were some podcasts, but not that many. And they've kind of come and gone, over the years. But it's just been such a cool experience to not only meet so many interesting people like yourselves that are doing really amazing things and, spreading awareness and education, but just the stories, my God, there's so many, you know, amazing stories. 

Carrie Bedient  MD (05:01)

There's so many stories.

Abby Eblen MD (05:04)

So Ali, how do you find the people that you talk to?

Ali Prato (05:07)

So it's kind of a mix. At the beginning, I was going after people because I wasn't anything yet. Nobody had heard of my show. So I was asking friends. I put the word out. Does anybody know anybody who's gone through IVF or had an infertility story? And so it was word of mouth at first. And now it's kind of a mix. I'll go after names in our industry or celebrities. But a lot of people will come to me as well.

I like to do a big mix of just people like in Fertility Rally, for example, telling their stories. And then one of my recent episodes was this woman named Kelly Girardi, who's an astronaut. I don't know if you guys heard about her, but she's like big on TikTok and she's been sharing her whole fertility story. So she was on my show. So it's a mix of celebrities and not, and, just people going through all different things. Like as I said, I want everybody to be able to find an episode at least that they can be like, okay, that's me. I see myself in that one. can relate to that one.

Susan Hudson MD (06:06)

That's awesome. That's awesome. Yeah. We started our podcast in February of 2020 and all three of us were physicians that were affiliated with Ovation Fertility, which is now part of, US Fertility. And we were at a dinner and we're like, you know what? We should start a podcast. There needs to be more people out there spreading good solid information about the reality of infertility and what's actually out there? What does our alphabet soup mean?

Abby Eblen MD (06:38)

And what's truthful and what's not because in my experience, I'm old enough that I did fellowship and at that time there wasn't an internet. And I can remember one day when somebody brought me a stack of papers this big to tell me why they needed to be on something and it was pretty inaccurate information. And back then people didn't realize early on that the internet wasn't always truthful. And so, we get so much of like, well, why didn't you do this procedure? Why didn't you do this test? And many of those tests have fallen by the wayside like post-coital tests, antisperm antibodies and so people just you can't siphon or figure out what's true and what's not when you look at the internet So that's really one of the motivations for me to be part of this

Ali Prato (07:15)

Yeah. Did you guys always have chemistry right off the bat?

Abby Eblen MD (07:18)

Well, we just met, we didn't know each other.

Ali Prato (07:20)

You do and it's such a good mix of personalities.

Abby Eblen MD (07:23)

We got really lucky. Yeah, we hit it really lucky. We all like each other really well.

Susan Hudson MD (07:27)

We did. I mean, it was one of those things where our producer was a little worried because of having so many voices, but fortunately all three of us have very unique voices and accents and intonations that you can always tell who's talking. And we literally developed a friendship over Zoom.

Ali Prato (07:47)

And I'm sure you guys over the years have met again, so many incredible people as well. Do you guys have any like favorite episodes or things that you've talked about that stick out in your mind?

Susan Hudson MD (07:58)

I love it every time we have guests because we present things from the physician perspective. But a lot of times when we have guests, we're able to bring in an outside perspective, whether it's from acupuncture or people in the nutrition industry or in the supplement industry or people who help provide medications or people who are telling their own stories.

Because there's so many dimensions to infertility. The medical part is important and that's really the main service we provide is really trying to provide good solid information that you can take and be like, okay, let's apply this to our personal situation and go forward, but really tying in because infertility really affects your entire walk of life as you're going through it.

Ali Prato (08:52)

Right.

Susan Hudson MD (08:54)

And it honestly affects how you approach life from there on after as well.

Ali Prato (08:59)

100%. I would definitely say I'm so much of a changed person after going through my infertility journey. And, I'm sure you guys that have been through it can say the same. It does change you to your core.

Abby Eblen MD (09:06)

Mm-hmm. Yep.

Susan Hudson MD (09:13)

What were the best and worst memories of your fertility journey?

Ali Prato (09:16)

Oh my gosh, they're all bad. The best part is that IVF did work and we had a son and I still look at him every single night before he goes to bed and he's nine years old as I said now. So at a certain point he's gonna be like, okay, mom, stop. But I tell him every single day, I still can't believe you're here and I can't.

Abby Eblen MD (09:20)

Come up with those good ones.

Ali Prato (09:43)

It's just such a miracle that it worked because the gist of my story was that we did one round of IVF and I had five PGT tested embryos and only one of them came back normal. It was like a hail Mary one shot. I didn't even realize at the time how rare that was that that was going to work. I was still in the camp where I thought IVF was a guarantee. Cause again, like I didn't really know anybody yet. I hadn't started fertility. I hadn't started the podcast yet. So, I didn't know all these stories of people going after round after round or having to pivot because it wasn't working for them. So we got really, really lucky. And I knew we were lucky at the time, but I didn't realize how lucky we were. So that's probably the best part of the story. I mean, that's definitely the best part. The worst parts were my husband and I almost split up. We got really vocal about how hard this was on our marriage and our relationship.

Abby Eblen MD (10:20)

Yeah.

It's tough. Yeah.

Ali Prato (10:38)

It got to a certain point where he always wanted to have another kid after we had our daughter, but it got to a point where he was like, I think we're good. Like he didn't want to be going through it anymore. Cause he was seeing me, it was years and years, losses and depression and just stuff. And at a certain point, I think he was just worried about my mental health. Cause he was like, do we need to keep doing this? And I was like, we're not done yet. Like I'm not done. And I remember saying to him, I wish I could tell you I didn't want this so badly because I know I'm fucking up our marriage right now. Sorry. And I was like, but I can't, I can't tell you I don't want, I was listening to my heart and my gut. And it was the hardest thing that we've ever been through, but I was just like, we're not done. I want to do this again. I want to be a mom again. So that was really, really hard. We went to counseling and I went through a lot of therapy, but there was a point where we were like, are we going to make it? And he was like, I don't know. We really didn't know. It was really, really rough.

Abby Eblen MD (11:36)

Ali, I think what you went through, in my personal opinion, I didn't go through a bunch of miscarriages. I was one of the luckier ones. But I think going through multiple miscarriages, I think that is one of the hardest roller coasters for somebody that gets to IVF because it's just, you have so many ups and downs and you just see people after two or three miscarriages and a lot of them are just wrecked. I mean, it's hard to keep going through that. So I think that speaks to the resilience of you and your husband to be able to go through all that.

Still go through IVF and go through all those steps. It's hard, hard to do that. So I'm glad you guys made it through to the end. Nice sweet boy.

Ali Prato (12:08)

Yeah, I know. We've been together since we were 16, which is crazy. We went to high school together, but we always give a disclaimer that we went to two different colleges and we dated other people. So it's not that nerdy. But yeah, I mean, honestly though, that was another thing where I felt like people just weren't talking about the relationship piece of this and how, if you are in partnership, how hard it can be, especially if two people aren't on the same page. And, some of it was financial because we didn't have insurance coverage. So it was like, how much are we willing to pay? And I was like, I will pay 14 million trillion dollars. I don't care. I'll pay anything. And he was being more reasonable about it, which at the time I was like, how could you put a price on a human life? And I was just. Yeah.

Abby Eblen MD (12:38)

Yeah.

I mean, there's so many different layers of like, and it's rare, you know, I think it's pretty rare that you see a couple on the exact same page. So for all the people that are listening, if you and your husband are not on the exact same page, to me, that's more the norm than, you know, than, than, you know, everybody agreeing with everything, because there's so many different layers. And men, think, do tend to think more as a general than women about the financial piece of it. But, you know, because you're just going through all these hormones and emotions and all that. So it's hard to really kind of be on the same page on all those different layers.

Ali Prato (13:23)

Yeah, absolutely.

Susan Hudson MD (13:24)

I think one thing that really contributes to it, whether you have recurrent pregnancy loss where it's more logical and thinking about it this way, but even in people who have other types of infertility is you are constantly going through a grieving process and you have you recurrently, whether it's miscarriages or having a period because you didn't get pregnant in that you keep on having insults to your grieving process. And then you have two people, we all know there's a there's a normal set of actions you go through your grieving process, but people jump around. And when you have two people jumping around, and you're both trying to support each other, but also take care of your own mental and physical health, it's it's so so challenging. And that's the reason we've we've talked multiple times about getting outside help getting counseling, talking being parts of communities because it is isolating. When I did my IVF, even as a fertility doctor, mean, everybody in my office knew, but my family didn't know. And with a lot of my family, they didn't know for a long, long time that, that we actually did IVF. And so, even somebody within the system, I totally understand that, that isolation.

I was traveling back and forth across the country to do my IVF for various reasons. And I think a lot of those experiences have led me to be the type of physician I am and really make sure there were certain things that I never want to happen in my personal clinic where I did my IVF. definitely was kind of a cattle call type of situation where everybody showed up at six o'clock in the morning and you sat there and waited for two and a half hours until your name randomly got called. And, that was just for your blood work. And then you waited more for your ultrasound and that uncertainty. I think one of the most striking memories was being, I have a very, very, accurate auditory memory. And so I would have conversations with somebody at the clinic.

And then a couple days later, the story would change or the plan would change. And I'm like, this is not what I was told. And they're like, yes, it was. And I'm like, okay, we're not going to sit here and argue. But I was just like with the medical team and it was, it's that whole thing of being told one thing and then things changing and it not being the same story. That's something that I have no tolerance with my staff. I'm like, we always are consistent. We tell the same thing. You have a reason behind what you say. If you don't know an answer, ask somebody who knows the answer. Don't just make something up because I mean, I would get off the phone and be in tears and I know what's going on.

Ali Prato (15:56)

So yeah.

That's so interesting. And I think it's so interesting too. I've interviewed a lot of doctors on my show and they always say, like I remember Ruhi Jilani, who you guys probably know in our industry. She was like, I made the worst patient as a doctor. Did you guys, did you feel that way too?

Abby Eblen MD (16:24)

No, because I had to work with everybody. So I was in a small office. But I will say that from my perspective, what I felt with the thing that two things, one is I never thought that the egg retrieval will be as uncomfortable post-op as it was. So I'm probably the first one in my office. If somebody wants pain medicines, if they ask specifically, I'll give it to them. And the other thing was with all the poking and prodding that you do, you you have all these different injections you give. And as a physician, like, yeah, let's just add another 75 of HMG.

Ali Prato (16:26)

Okay.

Abby Eblen MD (16:53)

And some clinics that's a whole different shot or let's just add this, this and this and you get so many shots that you give yourself, then you get prodded with the vaginal probe, then you get stuck for blood draws and it just, it kind of makes on the edge after a while. Cause you day after day, mean, 12 days of that when you're not used to doing anything like that, it's a big deal. I mean, it's just, hard not to be cranky when you get poked and prodded every day for two weeks.

Ali Prato (17:19)

And I remember getting all the meds. Well, first of all, my meds got lost. And cause I was living in Brooklyn at the time and they were, was $4,000 out of pocket of all these meds. I was starting them the next morning and the package never arrived. But I got an email that was like, your package has been delivered. And I was like, Oh my God, it's not here. And we were literally going up and down, door to door on our street, different apartment buildings and houses and being like, did you get a package? We couldn't find it. I was hyperventilating into a paper bag.

All this money lost, I'm not going to be able to start tomorrow. I was panicked. And then literally at the 11th hour, some random neighbor rang our bell and was like, we got it. I remember I gave him the biggest hug and he's like, who are you? I was like, oh my God, thank you so much. But I'd called the pharmacy and they're like, yeah, they were delivered. And I was like, well, they're not here. So what do want me to do? Yeah. But in terms of the injections too, I wanted to say that it was so as a non-physician getting these meds and having to mix them. And then the stakes are so high. What if I screw this up? That's so nerve wracking too. And again, another thing that I didn't know about, cause nobody was talking about that.

Carrie Bedient  MD (18:26)

How do you think things have changed since you started going through your fertility journey, which you said was pretty isolating, and then the midpoint when you started the podcast and then Fertility Rally and today? How have you seen this world evolve?

Ali Prato (18:34)

Yeah. Okay.

Well, I think just the transparency, is the major thing is that people are finally coming out and sharing their stories. And I think it's because women are such badasses. And when we back up like this, it's like, it's okay to tell your story and it's not cute and it's not pretty. And it's, you might feel abnormal, but I think that people stepping up and I'm not saying that everyone has to share their story. If people aren't comfortable with that, that's totally cool too. But I think that just the giving each other a forum and as women, we've been lifting each other up. And I think that's so cool you're okay. I went through that too, and we're normalizing the conversation and we're not there yet. It's still really, like I said at the top, it's still really taboo in a lot of places or certain people just don't want to talk about this still. But I do think that that's the biggest change is that just the amount of people that are people who have like a big platform or people who are in the news and sharing their stories that that does make big difference.

Carrie Bedient  MD (19:45)

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Carrie Bedient  MD (20:13)

What do you think as you were going through miscarriages? So some of this is me being prompted by a couple of days ago, I was seeing a patient who is extraordinarily high achieving. She is smart, she is talented, she is beautiful, she is all of the adjectives. And she just had her first miscarriage and she feels like a complete and utter failure. And I can see it written all over her face. in her body language. It's how she and her partner interact. And I'm trying to gently nudge her to, hey, you don't have to do this by yourself. I always, I make a lot of my patients say, especially if they've had miscarriages, repeat after me, this is not my fault. And to a woman, always tears, always tears because they think it's their fault. And it's not.

It's really not. And so what things got you through as you were going through these miscarriages that we can tell our patients? Because I want nothing more than for them to have all of the backup and all of the support. And my staff is great. I love, I'm very fortunate with who I work with. But they're not in my office all the time.

Ali Prato (21:28)

Mm-hmm.

Carrie Bedient  MD (21:29)

And even when they are, I'm sure that's traumatic for them too. I have absolutely no doubt about that, no matter how good our intentions are. What else should I be offering my patients to help them through this?

Ali Prato (21:41)

First all, you have such a soothing voice to have you, Carrie, be like, it's not your fault. I just got the chills when you said that because I'm I wish I had said that.

Abby Eblen MD (21:49)

She's got the velvet voice.

Just don't make her mad. You'll never, you never believe the words sometimes that come out of that velvet mouth.

Ali Prato (21:54)

Well, here's the thing is I don't feel like I had that really when I was going through it, I didn't have anybody saying that to me. I didn't have a group of women that I could Zoom with on a weekly basis and talk about what we were going through. And that's why I ended up creating this stuff is because it's the stuff I wish I had when I was going through it. So, I remember having I can't remember if it was my second or third miscarriage, but calling the doctor and being like, I'm bleeding, I'm pregnant, and I remember them, I talk about an audio memory, Susan, I remember them being like, oh, you're probably having a miscarriage. And I was like, okay. It was just such a flippant, and I was like, need to come in? And they're like, no, this happens all the time. I felt so blown off and so not, and it was another female on this medical staff, I don't remember who, maybe whatever, doesn't matter, but I remember being like, well, shit, that doesn't make me feel any better. And so point being, I really didn't have a lot of resources to get through it myself. like I said, that's why I created the rally, which is just a community of women all over the country and other parts of the world too that come together. And we call it the worst club with the best members because it's just people that are going through all sorts of trauma, but it's people who are wonderful and wanna help each other. And so I guess the short answer to your question is, I think it's so wonderful that you guys are coming from a place of empathy and you're able to, having been through whatever your circumstances were and then applying that, I wanna make it better for the people coming after me. That's how I think we can all make a difference is like, I wouldn't wish this on anybody, but I'm glad that at least I having gone through it, I'm able to pay it forward and be this is what you need, or this is what I wish I had.

Susan Hudson MD (23:46)

So talking about additional resources, when we were talking a little bit before the show, it sounds like both of us, our entities have some exciting publishing information coming out this year.

Ali Prato (23:57)

Yes, sweet. Let's talk about yours first.

Susan Hudson MD (24:00)

So Abby, do you want to take this?

Abby Eblen MD (24:02)

Yeah, so when we started out, we, in the vein of really wanting to get useful information out there, one of the gaps that we really felt like out there were for people that do IVF. As physicians, we sit down for about 30 minutes and everything you ever gonna learn about IVF is in that 30 minutes from, why you should do it, how we give the injections, how the medicines are ordered, like IVF, PGT, PGT-M, all the genetics.

And at the end, and it's just gotten longer and longer and longer because there's more things that we have to tell people every year. And so at the end, you can just see it's like a deer in headlights. And I usually start out and go, listen, I know that you're going to be overwhelmed by the end, but I'm sorry. There's just one time I need to sit down and tell you about everything. And so we all thought it'd be a great idea if somebody essentially had a handbook written by people who do IVF, which we do every day. We do IVF, we do egg retrievals, we do embryo transfers. And so we feel like we know what people need to know. And I think a lot of people wish that after they talk to their doctor, that they have something that they can refer back to and go, oh, now let me, why am I taking that medicine? What's that for? And what, what, what am I going to feel like after the IVF egg retrieval? And what, does the egg retrieval work? And so basically it's from the very beginning before IVF, what you need to think about.

During the process, we go through the egg retrieval and all the people you may meet, what their roles are. And then at the very end, we talk about other reasons why people may want to do IVF, like if they want to do it for genetic testing or recurrent pregnancy loss or reasons that people wouldn't think you would want to do IVF. If you're able to get pregnant, why would you want to do IVF? There are lot of other reasons. So that was that's our makeup of our book, and it will be coming out in September of 2025. And we're really excited about it.

Ali Prato (25:37)

Absolutely.

That is something I wish that I had. I would have killed to have that. That's such a valuable resource. And I remember like all the acronyms. I was just like, I don't know what any of this stuff means. And it is so overwhelming. And it just adds to that layer of like shit that you have to deal with. It's like,

Abby Eblen MD (25:52)

Yeah.

Yeah, because you're like, okay, I think I've heard this one time, what is PGT-A again? I mean, you because usually, when you get started, you may meet with your doctor, but you don't truly get started for two or three months, at least after that. And by that point, how many of us would remember this really detailed conversation? And so it's just a big gap, in our medical field.

Ali Prato (26:04)

Yes, that's so awesome. Well, I can't wait to get my hands on that. That's really, really cool.

Susan Hudson MD (26:23)

Our book is called The IVF Blueprint. And I think it's so exciting because it literally shows our listeners and our readers, how we build the IVF process from the part of what are things you need to do for you before you get started? Health-wise, mental-wise, all those types of things. What are things you need to do to prepare? What's it like going through it? And really trying to give an inside view of all those details. I mean, when we sit there and we look at our book, and then we look at what we tried to explain in those 30 minutes that Abby was just talking about, it's like, how, how we're just touching the surface. And it's really exciting to hopefully be able to provide this information. So people can go back and look when they're having those moments of no, I don't remember. But I know there was something about this.

Ali Prato (27:11)

100%. And do you guys find that as you've been writing it, you have to keep updating it because things are changing?

Abby Eblen MD (27:17)

Yeah. Or somebody will ask us a question in the office and be like, we need to get that in the book.

Ali Prato (27:21)

Great, absolutely. That's so awesome. I can't wait to see it. Congrats, guys.

Susan Hudson MD (27:25)

So tell us about your upcoming book.

Abby Eblen MD (27:27)

Yes.

Carrie Bedient  MD (27:28)

I would say Ali, your first book is sitting on my shelf in my office.

Abby Eblen MD (27:33)

Me too.

Susan Hudson MD (27:33)

Me too.

Abby Eblen MD (27:34)

And I will tell you when people walk in my room, my office, I have it sitting so they can sit and like, wow, what is this? This is so cool. It's a great book.

Ali Prato (27:41)

You can't get the full body chills, because I was going to say, I'm going to send you all eat your copy. My God, thank you so much. That's awesome. That's really awesome. So yeah, I wrote a children's book last year called Work of Art. So play on the word, assisted reproductive technology. And it's basically me telling the story to my son of how he was born. He overhears me on the playground saying he was an IVF baby. And then this is something that actually happened in the car on the way home, he's like, what's IVF? And then I was like, do you want me to explain it to you? So it's a children's book and talking about normalizing the conversation, again, it was something that I was like, I wish I would have had this when I was going through it because it's a good way to introduce to kids and families and even kids who aren't IVF babies that this is a way that families are being created and it's beautiful and it's amazing that this technology, this medicine, science, you all the things exist. I never wanted my son to feel weird about the way that he was born because it's different than how his sister came into this world. He thinks it's cool or maybe he doesn't, but he thinks it's cool than a book. He's like, am I famous? Like a little book tour and he, I was doing all these story times at bookstores in Jersey and New York and one of them, I was like, do you want to read the book? So he read the book to the crowd.

Abby Eblen MD (28:48)

That's cute! That's so cute!

Ali Prato (29:01)

Yeah.

But anyway, the whole plan was to have Work of Art be a series. So my story was being told first. And then as you guys know, there's so many other different ways to tell these stories. So the next book has been written and it's a totally different family building story. It involves an IUI, single mom who is having a sperm donor. And it's actually my best friend's story and my godson. And so it's all the things, again, but a totally different Work of Art story. So that's book number two, and it's being illustrated right now. I actually just got the first batch of illustrations by illustrator. So that will come out this spring, hopefully. And then I've already got book number three, in my head, which will be an egg donor story. So yeah, yeah. Yeah. But the hopes is that

Abby Eblen MD (29:36)

Aww.

I was going say there's lots of, that's a great idea because there's lots of different stories you can tell. That'll be awesome.

Carrie Bedient  MD (29:49)

Yeah.

Ali Prato (29:52)

these books, normalize it. And, one of my favorite things that's happened so far is that the first Work of Art book is in my son's school library and the librarian emailed me. I was like, I just want you to know it keeps getting checked out by all these kids. because it's like, well, you guys have the book. Thank you. So, the cover, it's fun and it's cute and there's all and I think kids might see it and not really know what it's about. But I love the notion that they might take it home, read it with their parents and then they're like, I didn't know that that was even a thing. Cool, Sonny was made in a lab. I think it's so good for kids to be exposed to all these things. So there's no stigma.

Abby Eblen MD (30:30)

Well, I'll tell you as an adult son who's soon to be 23, who was my first IVF baby, he's always been very proud of the fact that he's an IVF baby. And in fact, the girl he's dating right now, somewhere in the conversations, she goes, yeah, Benjamin told me he's an IVF baby. I'm like, really? You talked about that?

Ali Prato (30:44)

My God, that's awesome.

Yeah, well that brings me to a question for you guys. How did you tell your kids who were born through IVF, for those of you that did that?

Abby Eblen MD (30:55)

I think it just came out organically. think based on what I do, it wasn't that big of a deal for my kids at all, because it's part of what I do. I don't really remember having a specific conversation, actually.

Ali Prato (31:05)

Mm-hmm.

Susan Hudson MD (31:05)

Yeah, I think it's so much of the nature of our dinner conversation.

Ali Prato (31:09)

It's just funny.

Abby Eblen MD (31:10)

I say more at dinner than anybody ever wants to hear about, so they usually just don't ask me questions.

Ali Prato (31:14)

Yeah, I mean, I think that's good. If it's just in the ether, it's just part of the conversation. That means it's, becoming more and more normalized. So that's awesome.

Susan Hudson MD (31:20)

And in other people's households, you're not talking about IVF on a regular basis on just a random day. So, what's normal in our houses is, those types of things and family building. I mean, I have to say, think my kids, the hardest thing for them is, I live in a smaller city than most fertility doctors. And so most fertility doctors live in cities that have over a million population, that type of thing. That's not the case for me.

And so they're pretty familiar with us being in the grocery store or out to dinner and somebody comes up and they're like, Dr. Hudson, you helped create my baby, da da da, and that type of thing. And so they're, they're always very prepared for that. But as my, kids are now teenagers, as they have gotten older, they have more interactions where they're on their own and they, they aren't prepared when they're on their own. They're like,

Ali Prato (32:14)

Mm-hmm.

Susan Hudson MD (32:15)

My mom's not here. it was, what is the movie where the girl is like, you know, I'm paired in my, Pretty Woman. The whole thing when she's like, you know, when Stucky comes and is like proposing her as a prostitute. And it's like. I can do it when I'm in my own clothes and in my normal situation. I think of it like that. If my mom's there, I expect somebody to come and talk to me about fertility issues and it's fine, but it's weird when I'm on my own and not in that protective environment.

Ali Prato (32:43)

Right, yeah, exactly.

Abby Eblen MD (32:52)

I will say on a side note, this is not quite on topic, but I thought back to one of the funniest times I had was when my daughter was probably about 11 or 12. And we were in Home Depot getting something, I don't know what it was. And this guy who I didn't initially recognize came up, had overalls, walked up and started asking me about his sperm count in Home Depot. And my daughter was mortified. Yeah.

Ali Prato (33:13)

My god. Cringy. I almost died. My gosh.

Abby Eblen MD (33:17)

You never know what you're going to encounter. So how did you tell your son about being an IVF baby?

Ali Prato (33:22)

Yeah. So it's basically like what happened in the book. He overheard me talking about it. And then I was like, let's talk about it before bed tonight. So, he got in his jammies and I crawled in bed with him. And I just said, we tried to have a baby, we loved your sister so much, that we wanted another baby so badly. And that's another thing I want to say that, with secondary infertility, feel like sometimes it gets a little misunderstood.

And I remember when I was going through it feeling like, my God, do people think I'm being greedy? I already have a kid, and even some people being like, can't you just be happy with what you have? Why are you putting yourself through this? And I remember saying, and this is important for me to include in the book or try to convey at least was like, I love being a mom so much, more than I ever thought that I would that it's coming from a place of love. I want to do it again.

And that's the best way that I can think to explain it. So I think that makes much sense. But that's what I basically said to Sonny was, his sister is, the best thing that ever happened to us. I just, I'm welling up because it's so emotional. She's the best thing that ever happened to us. And I just wanted to have another baby. I wanted to do it all again. And so I wanted you so badly. And, I tried to have other babies and they weren't healthy so they were never born and then we went to a doctor and you were made in the lab and he was like like a superhero? That's basically how I told him but you guys said it's just always been they hear me doing my podcast they hear me on the rally call they this has just always been in the vernacular and fertility stuff has always been in their their world so it wasn't a big know, dramatic thing was like, I need to tell you something.

Carrie Bedient  MD (34:58)

Do you think that your, and this is part a silly question, but part, I'm really kind of curious. So your 16 year old daughter, because every child knows that their parents only had sex once. Twice if you've got a sibling, three times if you've got two, but truly your parents only have ever had sex once. So has your daughter who was not born through IVF, has she ever had a cringe factor of like, aw crap, mom and dad actually did have sex, but Sonny didn't, and so he doesn't have to think about that. I'm kind of curious, is there that that visceral kid reaction of like, ew?

Abby Eblen MD (35:31)

Hahaha

Ali Prato (35:34)

Yeah. I mean, I think at this point, she's a teenage girl and I think everything I do is cringy. So I think the fact that I even have this podcast is probably embarrassing, for her talking about sex and if she ever listened to the first episode, I mean, I talk about having sex and being like, just stick it in, fighting with my husband during intercourse.

Abby Eblen MD (35:43)

Yeah. She shouldn't listen to the podcast.

Ali Prato (35:59)

They will die.

But again, it's like we have to be honest about this stuff. It's not pretty. But I do think it's important. So Carrie, yes, she I think she she just thinks I'm cringy top to bottom no matter what.

Abby Eblen MD (36:06)

Yeah.

Carrie Bedient  MD (36:15)

I feel like I hit a new parenting level high when I made my daughter cringe when it was just the two of us in a room alone in our own house. There was no one else around and she still cringed at me. So I feel like it's part of me. What was that? She is 11 right now. Yeah.

Ali Prato (36:35)

When they can look at you and cut you down to size with like a sideways glance. I've never felt so insecure as when my daughter will be shopping and I'm like, ooh, that's cute. And she'll go for you or for me. And I'm like, okay, I'll show you.

Abby Eblen MD (36:39)

Yeah, yeah, I would never wear that mom. Those are mom jeans.

Carrie Bedient  MD (36:51)

Yeah. And to think, we are trying to promote this particular experience for all of our patients. Like, hey, let's help you feel insecure. Let's help you feel like you're irrelevant. Let's help you feel like you are the tiniest speck of dust.

Ali Prato (37:02)

Yeah.

Absolutely. Yes. No, I know there's so many instances and irrelevant is such a good word because she uses that word too. And it's like, God, I swear I used to be cool. I used to work at Playboy. I was cool. they're like, was my first job out of college. worked at Playboy magazine. I was an editor there for 10 years. It was so fun.

Abby Eblen MD (37:20)

Wow. Now, why didn't you tell us that, Ali? We would started out with that.

Abby Eblen MD (37:26)

I've never met anybody that worked at Playboy. My gosh, the things you probably wrote and heard.

Ali Prato (37:37)

The stories the mansion party.

Yes. That's a whole new episode you guys will have to do a part two Yes, it was fun.

Abby Eblen MD (37:43)

Wow, that's quite a job.

Carrie Bedient  MD (37:44)

Yes, absolutely. well, we are so glad that we got the opportunity to talk with you and on air so we can introduce our audience to you because we're our podcast is very much the technical of like, you went through this and this is what your doctor's saying and this is what you're thinking about and da da da da da da like all of the tech parts of it. And so it's really wonderful to have another resource to send our patients to for the, you're not alone part.

Ali Prato (38:17)

Well, thank you and back at you. I'm so glad that we did this because I want people to, if they're not aware of you, I mean, the way that I learned about you all was through Fertility Rally people. like, you got to listen to this podcast. I think it's, rising tide lifts all ships. Is that the quote? There's room for all of us in what we're doing. And I love to link up with other women in particular in this space and be like, you're doing something awesome. Let's help each other out and let's spread the word because there's never enough resource.

Abby Eblen MD (38:45)

Ali, want to speak into that. I meant to ask you about Fertility Rally. For somebody that doesn't know about it, tell us about it real quick.

Ali Prato (38:52)

Okay.

So yeah, this is something we started on a woman named Blair Nelson and I co-founded this and it was during COVID. During the lockdown, we started having these Zoom calls. She and I had met, she was on my podcast episode number eight, cause she had emailed me and was like, I'm going through this. So she was on my show. We became friends. And then we started just being like, there's so many people in this Instagram community who are talking about, what they're going through. And so we started hosting Zoom calls just randomly during COVID.

And then they were getting really popular and I think this is a thing. So we created Fertility Rally, which is a community. It's a lot of support groups. We have four to five virtual support groups per week. Blair and I still host the Wednesday night call every single week. So we've been doing it since 2020. But we have the Sunday group. We have a Monday pregnancy after infertility group. We have a Tuesday motherhood after infertility group. We have a surrogacy support group. We've had over the years, we've had almost 5,000 members coming through the doors. We don't want people to stay because that, mean, we do. We believe we're like, okay, that's good. Cause you don't need us anymore. You know what I mean? So there's a lot of churn like in terms of members, but we've had some founding members that are still with us that just made their best friends. We did a fertility rally in Austin in last September. We did one in Chicago the year before that. And we've had like, 35 people come from different parts of the country and all spend the weekend together. We have a fertility rally live, which you guys have been a part of, which is an all-day virtual event. So it's basically, again, all under the umbrella of stuff that I wish I had had when I was going through it selfishly. So the rally is there. And like I said, we have all these different support groups. And we have a website full of videos and resources and things like that. We're on Instagram. If anybody listening wants to check out the rally and like come to a group and see if they like it, they can reach out to me at any point. We're happy to have anybody going through anything. We've members going through all sorts of different journeys. So it's been awesome. Like we've just met some most incredible people who are just, as you guys know, the bond is instant and these are friends for life.

Carrie Bedient  MD (40:50)

That's so awesome.

Abby Eblen MD (40:51)

Wow, you've made a lot of impact, I'm sure, with all of those different groups. That's amazing.

That's crazy. If you've been at war together.

Ali Prato (41:02)

Totally.

Yes, exactly. Yeah.

Carrie Bedient  MD (41:04)

Yeah. Well, awesome. Well, thank you so much, Ali. And to our audience, thank you so much for listening. Subscribe to Apple Podcasts to have the next episode pop up automatically for you. Be sure to subscribe to YouTube. That really helps us spread reliable information and help as many people as possible.

Susan Hudson MD (41:23)

Visit fertilitydocsuncensored.com and InfertileAFGroup.com to learn more about all of us.

Abby Eblen MD (41:30)

As always, this podcast is intended for entertainment. It's not a substitute for medical advice from your own physician. Subscribe, sign up for emails, and we'll talk to you soon. Bye.

Ali Prato (41:39)

Thank you. Bye.

Carrie Bedient  MD (41:40)

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