STORY: Ryan’s Instinctive Gifts and What He's Taught Me with Chris Patay

Hello Brave Friends! Welcome to today's story episode, #221. These are true stories from a moment in the life of a caregiving parent. We hear a crafted story, and then have a conversation with our guests that goes deeper into their experience.

In this heartfelt conversation, Chris and Jessica Patay reflect on their journey as parents of a child with Prader-Willi syndrome. They discuss the challenges and joys of parenting, the importance of community support, and the lessons learned from their son Ryan. Chris shares insights on fatherhood, the shifting expectations of parenting, and the value of maintaining hope and engagement in the face of adversity. The conversation emphasizes the need for self-care and the beauty found in the unique traits of children with special needs.

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Transcript

 Welcome to Brave Together Parenting, an empowering and truly helpful podcast for the parents of children with disabilities and all unique needs. 

And the most important thing, you want your kids to be happy and healthy. Happy and healthy, and have fulfilling meaningful relationships. And Ryan has that. He has, you know, he's happy, he's healthy, and he has great relationships.

Hi, brave friends. I'm your host for this episode, Jessica Pate, brave Mom, and I'm the founder and executive director of the nonprofit organization. We are Brave Together. And this is a really special story, episode number 221, in which we hear a true story from a moment in the life of a caregiving parent.

Father's Day is coming up, and so today I invited my husband of 28 years and the father to our three children, Chris Pate on. The podcast, he's going to share a beautiful story he wrote about lessons he's learned from our son, Ryan, who has PR Willie Syndrome, and after his story, we have a conversation about his experience being a caregiving dad for 21 years.

As you'll hear, he's such an optimist and he has a real gift for seeing the really beautiful aspects of our son's personality and diagnosis. And just a little reminder here to subscribe to the podcast, leave us a review, share our podcast and episodes with friends, and follow us on Instagram at We Are Brave Together.

And if you wanna see the faces behind the podcast, look for clips from all of our episodes this season on YouTube. We thank you in advance for your support, and I will let Chris take it from here.

I treasure being a father. It is truly a gift, though it hasn't always been easy. When Ryan was diagnosed with Prada Willie Syndrome a few weeks after birth, it rocked my world, but over time, it also reshaped how I see the world. He's taught me countless lessons, but three, stand out the most. The value of contentment, the power of deep listening, and the importance of engaging with people without judgment.

One of the most profound lessons Ryan has taught me is about contentment and learning to adjust expectations. As parents, we often carry unspoken hopes about what our children's lives will look like, the milestones they'll hit, the activities they'll pursue. How they'll navigate school friendships and eventually independence.

But Ryan shown me that joy doesn't come from comparing our paths to others or chasing arbitrary standards. It comes from being fully present in the life we're actually living with Ryan. I've learned to measure success differently, to celebrate moments that might seem small from the outside, but are monumental in our world.

I cried happy tears when he took his first steps at age three. And years later, I was in awe when he hiked four miles on the hilly Palos Verde's trails. Just a year after scoliosis surgery. He'll complete his high school transition program at age 21, and I'll be just as proud as I was watching my oldest graduate from college last week.

So often the stress we feels parents comes from whether or not our kids meet our expectations. Some parents might panic about whether their child gets into Ivy League school. All because of a script they've written in their heads. But with Ryan, I've experienced a different kind of joy, a deeper contentment.

I've learned to recognize where he's at and what he's capable of, and to celebrate each milestone for what it truly is hard earned and deeply meaningful. Another lesson Ryan has taught me is the power of truly listening. He has this remarkable ability to remember details about people, things they've told him months or even years ago.

And bring them up in conversation with genuine care, whether he is asking about a favorite pet, a ification, or how someone's healing from an injury. He's laser focused and completely present. What's striking isn't just his memory, but his intention, Ryan doesn't listen to respond. He listens to connect.

Watching him has reminded me how rare that kind of a attentiveness is in our fast-paced, distracted world. He makes people feel seen and heard. He reminds me to put my phone down, to look people in the eye and to make them feel seen and heard. It takes effort and focus to deeply connect with others, and Ryan does that instinctively.

Finally, Ryan lives without prejudice. He meets everyone without filters. No concern for status, popularity, or appearances. He'll chat just as comfortably with a cashier at the grocery store, as with someone twice his age at a party and he's eager to connect with someone who has a disability just as much as someone who doesn't.

He doesn't care if a person looks like him, acts like him, or fits some mold. He simply wants to engage with everyone. He sees people for who they are and treats them with equal interest and respect. Through him, I've learned to slow down, to look closer, and to truly see people too. Ryan May face more challenges than most, but he also has extraordinary strengths, and he's taught me more than I ever could have imagined.

Chris is such a wonderful writer. And I am so grateful that he agreed to do this. It took a little bit of prompting, a little bit of pulling, 'cause he is such a busy guy, but I know he wanted to do this and then he sat down and out, it spilled and it was so beautiful. Let's dig into our conversation now.

Hi. 

Hi. 

Welcome to the show. 

Thank you. 

It has been. Four years since you were on the show? It was 2021. 

Wow. 

I know. It's been a long time. Yeah. Where have you been? All my life. I know. Aw, I'm so glad you agreed to do this Father's Day episode. 

Oh, of course. 

How are you feeling? 

Good. Excited. 

Well, I think our listeners are gonna love what you wrote and you know, you're a seasoned dad now, you have almost 22 years experience being a rare disease Dad, dad to Ryan.

So I think you have a lot to offer, hun. 

Oh, thanks. Thank you. 

So I was thinking, let's start with. Going back to the beginning, take us back 22 years. And do you remember how you felt? Do you remember how you felt when we were in the hospital? Do you remember how you felt the night that Dr. Flores called and kindly shared the news and those first weeks?

Yes. Yeah, it was, unfortunately, I remember because it was a very challenging. Time. It was, it was difficult. Um, yeah, I mean, you were right there with me in it. And, you know, no one wants to wake up, especially in a moment, you know, when your child's born and it's like, there's so much excitement and anticipation and, you know, thrill and, and the like, but.

To suddenly face and, you know, waking up to, you know, a challenge and a challenging situation and a child, you know, who you're learning has a disability and being told it's life only disability and being told there's no cure, that's devastating. And you know, it, it, it rocked. You know, my world rocked our world and, uh.

No one gives you a manual or prepares you for it. 

Mm-hmm. 

And you know, I know there's circumstances where, you know, people have tests are kind of forewarned, you know, this one's just a shock. And, uh, yeah, it was, uh, yeah, it was, it was hard. 

I wanna tell our listeners too, to give you some credit, Chris, that when we were in the hospital, and this was before smartphone, so I wasn't looking up anything and you were, you were Googling his symptoms, failure to thrive, hypotonia some of his medical issues and up popped Prodder, Willie Syndrome.

And so you asked, we asked, can we test for that? And three doctors said, well, he doesn't look. Like it, right? Because there is a look, not as significant as Down syndrome, but there is a look and you said, well test anyways. And I'm so grateful. I'm so grateful that you did Google, even though that can be scary and that you did push for testing.

Yeah, it was. I mean, we didn't know what was going on. It was sort of sleepless nights and, you know, I figured, you know, I'm, I'm gonna research, you know, there was, it was a long time ago in infancy of the internet. But, um, you know, that said, there were fortunately a lot of, a lot of information available online and, um, you know, I, I tried to look and find out every conceivable possibility and didn't want to have any stone unturned.

And, uh, yeah. And Prada, Willis syndrome came up and, uh, sure enough, that was the diagnosis. 

So, I don't remember at all asking you about PWS when we were doing the testing. I don't think I read anything and I think that was intentional. 'cause I didn't wanna fill my head with all the what ifs. Mm-hmm. Until we had a diagnosis.

Then I was gonna read, then I was gonna research, then I was gonna look it up. But I don't even remember discussing any of the symptoms or what you read about PWS and I. I'm really kind of glad that I didn't because it was such a worrisome time, emotional. Plus, I'm dealing with hormones and postpartum stuff.

Mm-hmm. You know, the, just the body physically recovering, and then the worry about Ryan. Thankfully I didn't have postpartum depression, which is shocking considering the circumstances, but I, I, I just really wanted to protect my, my head and my heart while I was living at the hospital. So take us to that night when Dr.

Flores called. Did you pick up the phone or did I pick up the phone? 

Gosh, I don't even remember. Um, 

the landline phone. Yeah. Yeah. For those of you, right, 

exactly. I think we just put 'em on speaker. I mean, I remember it was a short call. We knew they were running the test and he called and sort of in my heart, I had a feeling that was.

It because I think I, you know, some of the doctors sort of, uh, came around to, yeah, that was a distinct possibility and it, it was, it was challenging, but a relief sort of, there was, there's something odd about that in that, right? It was really, really hard to hear, but part of me was afraid, and if they said no and still didn't know what it was, you know, it just meant more stones unturned it, you know?

And that was a scary prospect. So it was hard. It was difficult, but at least we had. Answer. 

Mm-hmm. And 

try to figure out where do we go forward from there. 

Exactly. I remember being heartbroken and also, at least we now have a trajectory. Now we know what to do next. And thankfully, Dr. Flores connected us with Dr.

Rena Falk at Cedars a geneticist. Thankfully at the time, there was an expert. At UCLA, Dr. Philip Lee. So we got in to see him within a week or two. And all of that provided comfort. Like, okay, at least now we know what we're dealing with. At least we have some experts to go to. And we found Prada, really California Foundation, Prada Syndrome Association, and you know, at Lisa Graziano became my mentor and we met all the families.

And so it was both, it was heartbreaking and a relief that at least we had an answer and a place to go. 

Right. 

So I love what you wrote. I love that. These are the things that stand out to you that Ryan has taught you. Is there any one that you wanna highlight, particularly right now? You talked about contentment.

Mm-hmm. You talked about how Ryan has shown you that joy doesn't come from comparing our paths to others or chasing arbitrary standards. I love that, that with Ryan, you've learned. To measure success differently. Yeah. And, and then that Ryan has taught you the power of truly listening and that how Ryan lives without prejudice.

Is there any one of those you wanna talk about? 

I mean, I think, you know, given where we started in talking about the diagnosis, just the. That first piece I think is important because, you know, when we first got the diagnosis and it rocked the world, I, I honestly thought, I remember at a period of time it's gonna be miserable like forever, and it's just gonna be one disappointment after another as he kind of grows up.

And so I think, I think that was more the surprising thing. I mean, I, I. You know, as you know, share with you, share with others before you know, one sort of, there were several aha or kind of life-changing moments, you know, along the journey. And one of the first ones was, you know, a friend telling me in the early days when I was, you know, so miserable saying, you know, one of the hardest things right now is, you know, just kind of resetting some expectations and, and you know, that stuck with me.

And he was exactly right that one of the hardest. Things initially is just, like I said, you know, you have all this excitement, anticipation, and joy with a newborn, and suddenly to be, you know, told that you're. Child's gonna have a lifelong disability. You know, that's a huge expectation shift that was not in the cards.

Right. Um, 

and you know, with with Ryan along the way, you know, he's really understanding his unique abilities, his traits and everything. It's it, each day, you know, there's a whole different joy and, uh, you know, I. Can't wait and it's so excited. In a couple weeks he's gonna be transitioning outta the school district and that's gonna be like a great joyous moment.

Just, it was, you know, seeing our sons and daughters high school graduation and you know, our oldest sons, you know, recent college graduation and, you know, it makes me think about too, just, you know, this is a time of the year where everybody. Starts talking about where people are graduating from high school, where are they going to college.

And sometimes you hear about these like, you know, profound disappointments. Oh, it was like so heartbreaking. You know, didn't getting into this school or that school. And whenever I, I hear those stories, it makes me realize, you know, every, everybody sort of has these joys and disappointments all relative to sort of what their expectations are for their kid, you know?

Mm-hmm. If their kid's straight, a honor student, AP student, you know, if, if, uh, they don't get in top schools, it can be difficult because. That's suddenly their expectation. You know, Ryan, there's sort of a, you know, it's a different measure. He's, and the most important thing, you want your kids to be happy and healthy, right.

And happy and healthy, and have fulfilling meaningful relationships. And Ryan has that. He has, you know, he's happy, he's healthy, and he has great relationships, and each time he kind of moves along the journey, you know, we're able to celebrate. 

You know, I wanna say something. You said he has great relationships, and you know what, you're right.

He doesn't have the friendships and the peer relationships that we wish he could have or wish he did have, but he has other meaningful, loving relationships and I appreciate you bringing that up. 

Yeah. And for, for you or me, it might be like, that's not a real relationship, you know? And um, so when we put ourselves in his shoes, we think.

How it would feel for you or me, that is much different than how it actually feels for him. He was just sharing with you this morning about how much fun he has going over to Cecilia's place, one of his caregivers, and, uh, how, you know, she, he's learned all the house rules and you know, she, she doesn't have her.

Fridge locked and everything, but she monitors and he, he says he never takes food in there or anything. And he also said how, oh, and Cody, her son is, oh, he's my best friend. 

Oh, no. 

You know, and, and of course Cody's now almost 

five. Almost 

five. Almost five. Okay. Ryan is 21, you know, not many. 21-year-old say their best friend is five years old.

But, um, but he genuinely has. An absolutely loving relationship with Cecilia and Cody. Mm-hmm. True. And now it's not like the type 

that 

you or, and I would look at and say, wow, that's, uh, he's excited about that his, you know, relationship with his caregiver and her five-year-old son, but 

mm-hmm. 

Ryan, that's pure bliss.

And, uh. You know, and, and, and same with others. And so that's, that's what I mean that, you know, he's, he's happy in hell and in his eyes, you know, and the way he sees his relationships. Mm-hmm. You know, he, he views them as, you know, as wonderful and, and of course they are because they're people who love him and isn't that what's most important?

You know, knowing you're around people who actually really, genuinely love you. And that's what he has in his league is a lot of people that. Really absolutely love him. 

True. So true. So this is our Father's Day episode, and so I do wanna talk about dads and the fathering experience and also, you know, what do you wish all dads knew or understood or could hear at the start of their journey of altered parenting?

I think that that things will work out better than you anticipate. And I think just even on a personal level, aside from even a relationship with Ryan, just, you know, the people that we've become, I. Friends with that we wouldn't have met otherwise along the way. Just, you know, lifelong dear, you know, friends.

And that there, there's moments where certainly it's challenging and we have challenging times with him and, and we have things that are not, you know, you know, we haven't had the same type of vacations we, I think we would've anticipated. And you know, there's, you know, other little things you can look at and see that are maybe in some ways superficial, but, but there's other just absolute, you know.

Joys. And I think even with him too, you know, the relationship I have with him is so meaningful and the, you know, strengths I, I have with him are so meaningful. And I think, and that's the whole thing to hold onto is the journey. Certainly the journey's gonna be different, but in terms of heartfelt joy along the way, even if you don't feel in those initial moments, they will come.

I remember being struck by, I forgot, I can't even who it was. It was one time talking about his relationship with his son who had Down syndrome. And he said, oh, I don't call it Down syndrome. I call it UP syndrome. You know, because, uh, he had such a powerful relationship with his 

son and 

learned so much and was, got so much joy out of it along the way.

And is it, you know, challenging having a kid with down soon? Is it challenging having one with Provo Syndrome? Yes, but there's so much, you know, more joy and meaning. Life that come along the way. And there's so much, you know, we learn from, you know, so much I've learned from Ryan, which are the other points I shared in my story.

Do you think it changed the way you might parent Luke and Kate having Ryan? Oh gosh. Do you think you would've had more hard driving expectations for Luke and Kate? Do you think it relaxed you? Like I always say that. One of the gifts of this journey is that it gives you perspective, it helps you have a shift in priorities.

It, you know, it's, I think, you know, I say that Ryan has helped me recover from perfectionism. I don't know that I've fully recovered, but, you know, I think I'm a different mom because of Ryan. And what about you? 

Yeah, I, um, I don't know. I think. I'd say it could be yes and no. Like on the, on the expectations out of them.

I think, you know, on, on the flip side, there's part of me yeah, that has more understanding, having, you know, a child, but at the same time, maybe also then expecting more from them because they are typical, you know, and, and, uh. You know, and I, I don't know, I, you know, sometimes wonder whether the parent go, do I have, you know, some deep down higher expectations for them because I want more out of them to, you know, sort of make up for the challenges that Ryan has had.

Um, I, I, that's honest. 

That's honest. 

Yeah. Um, but, um, I think it, it, it's, it's definitely helped understand. That and maybe pause and think that I need to be sensitive to their, the own challenges they face growing up with a sibling with special needs and it mm-hmm. It adds some elements of stress and anxiety and, and hardship and even loss.

Um. Mm-hmm. You know, that, that they've had to face, you know, and, and be, you know, understanding where I need to have grace as a parent, you know, recognizing that. 

Something that we say and we are brave together. You know? If we could go back to the beginning, what do you think it would be helpful for Moms to hear and for me personally, I focus on.

The mental health aspect of a mother or a parent, practicing self-compassion, making sure you're engaging in true self-care. All these things that really pertain to you personally, even though I think, you know, a lot of parents want the perfect parenting techniques or you know, how to master the IEP process, you know, but I.

I would say you've got to take care of your own mental health from the beginning. 

Mm-hmm. 

And here's some practical, easy, free ways to do that. What would you say is most important to a dad? If you could sit down to dinner with a dad whose son just got a diagnosis mm-hmm. Or daughter, what would you say?

Like right now, what's most important for you to do or not to do is this? 

Gosh, that's a good question. I think a few things. One, you know, not lose hope because there is a lot of hope out out there, I think to stay. Engaged. You know, it can be easy to sort of retreat, you know, hide. And I, I remember being early on wondering, you know, do we, you know, broadcast it, do we, you know, share what's going on?

You know, don't hide, you know, there's, I. People really want to support. People really want to help. And it's important to, to, you know, stay engaged and, and then be engaged, you know, if you're a spouse too, because, you know, it's one that, you know, mom can't take on on her own too and needs an engaged husband.

So, I mean, I think be engaged with the process, be engaged with with others, um, and, um. You know, I think like you, you know, you mentioned taking care of your mental health. I think, um, uh, yes. You know, practicing self-care habits is important. Taking care of yourself and, and finding ways to, you know, support your partner and with, and, you know, to together to find ways to, to, uh.

Ensure both, both of you, you know, are, are taking care of yourselves because, you know, with a strong sense of self, you know, it's much easier to be there to be available for your child. 

Hmm. I like that. I like how you said that. That's so true. It really is true. If we're not taking care of ourselves, we can just, we're gonna spiral into.

Burnout or depression or despair. But if we have a strong sense of self, then we are gonna be better able to show up for each other and for our family. You said you used the word engaged, so it just makes me think about community. Do you feel like you have had enough community in the disability world, rare disease world with other parents or other dads over the last 22 years?

Yes. And you know, I think it different. It was really important I think in the early years. And I did, you know, fortunately I found it through California Foundation. You know, I had some fantastic, um, other couples who become lifelong friends and that was really important and, and helpful and also to hear about their own.

Journey along the way and, and experience together and, you know, and through other dads just in the school district, his, you know, children were, you know, part of the special day program as they had. That was very, very valuable. And over, over time, I mean, it's, I, I think in the early years it is very important.

And you know, of course several of those. Dad, early dads are, are still lifelong friends. We get together and it's important to stay together, but I think over time, just having community, just generally having, you know, relationships generally, it's all important. 

Would you encourage dads then to not retreat even though they might feel really burdened and then it be filled with worry and they might be, you know, feeling, you know.

Adjusting their expectations or feeling sad or grieving, just like what moms go through. Would you encourage them not to retreat and hide? Yes, 

absolutely. And, and I think, you know, guys can engage in different ways. I know one thing we, we did is, you know, guys, guys don't necessarily like, oh, I'm, I'm gonna just go to a support group with other guys.

Um, sometimes we just went out to like a, you know, sports bar and remember getting a bunch of guys together and, uh, and you know, some of whom had never met before, and. Sitting around and talking for hours and um, you know, initially just getting together to hang and, you know, have, have a few beers. But, you know, through that time you could tell that people are really kind of long just for some, you know, community.

You know, it's, it's very helpful. It can, I think, you know, sometimes you can be feeling or a sense, I don't, I, you know, if, if I hang around, other people have. Kids with special needs is just gonna be like, uh, de depressing, you know, share fest. But it's, you know, it's sort of the ends up being the, you know, the opposite.

It's, uh, it actually often comes with a lot of laughter. 

Mm-hmm. 

Hearing each other's, you know, stories or experiences and, uh, yeah. And sort of, uh, crazy experiences. But, you know, I think most important, just being able to relate to one another that's, you know, a powerful effect. Just having people, you can just really relate to.

And what do you think about, you know, our organization is so mom centric. 

Mm-hmm. 

Um, you know, we've done that because it's easier. Well, I, I won't get into the reasons why, but, um, it's just the lane that we've chosen is to focus on caregiving moms. But do you feel slighted? Do you feel like dads aren't getting the attention they.

Deserve. 

No, I don't. I don't think so. I don't, I think I mean it, you know, listen to you. Every organization can't be something to all, and I think yours serves a unique purpose, and I think it'd be challenging to dilute that a little bit unless you really have the, the resources to. To expand beyond it, but I think the, the needs are different.

Maybe that's stereotypical, but, uh, to say, but, you know, a lot does fall on moms in a different way than dads. And I think there are dads. Do you know, I, I relate, you know, a little bit differently, you know, I see. Than you do with some of your own girlfriends. And the, and the needs can vary. And I think there's something powerful about, you know, having a community of women and.

Like-minded moms really supporting each other. And of course, you know, dads do need it too, but I think 

yes, 

do probably need to be probably touched and relate in a slightly different way. 

Mm-hmm. What do you think would draw, because we know that dads need support, I. And we know that they need to feel seen, heard, and understood because they're experiencing an altered parenting journey just as well as their partners or wives.

How do we help more dads feel seen, heard, and understood? I don't mean just us as an organization, but just us as an society acknowledging disability debts. 

Yeah. You know, well, I, I mean, I think I'd say to, to those who, who don't have a child with disability, I think just, you know, being. Recognizing and interested and open and, and engaged and not, you know, afraid to talk about it.

I love it when, you know, people ask me about Ryan and want to hear about Ryan. You knows, some are almost like, oh, are you okay to talk about it? And of course I'm okay to talk about it. You know, it's therapeutic, it's helpful and it's, and it's, you know, wonderful to see people who are engaged. And I think for, you know, other fellow dads, you know, in that community of those who have children with special needs, it's, it is great to get to know and relate.

I mean, and there's of course, you know. Some who I may not see for a while, but just by having that connection, you, you, you feel like that extra special bond, like you're part of a little special fraternity, you know, you didn't sign up for, you didn't really wanna join the fraternity. Nope. Nope. But, but you're, uh, but you're, you're there and there is something sort of, uh.

Meaningful about that you can look, look in the eye and, and know, oh yeah, I, I get that. You know, and I, I understand. And um, and again, it doesn't even have to be through a support group setting, just, you know, just through, through being around and, and knowing and sharing and, and relating and that's meaningful.

So I think, uh, 

I agree, 

you know, fi finding those relationships and those connections are important. 

Chris, with Ryan, about to exit the school district. What does the future look and feel like for you? I know at times it's felt very, very daunting for me, and right now I'm kind of in the head space where I've chosen not to worry myself into an ulcer because you and I will figure it out.

We're a great team, you're a great partner, you're involved, you're invested, you're in this with me. So I don't feel as overwhelmed as I guess if I were trying to figure this out and navigate it on my own, but you know, with you as the main. Provider and knowing that Ryan is for, for his whole entire life will be dependent on us.

How do you feel about the future, especially about this, you know, change that's imminent? 

Yeah, I mean, it is, it is challenging and, and in the sense, you know, with the school, it's like there's a program, there's people re responsible for him for, you know, I don't know, six, seven hours, I dunno how many hours of the day.

You know, and, you know, he's, he's not gonna have that sort of. Support. But at the same time, you know, I do know there will be something else. It may not be easy, but I, I think every, every time along the journey, there's, there's bumps along the way, but things work out. You know, it felt like a, gosh, moving into, you know, elementary school, every, every step along the way, it felt like, oh, this is gonna be a big change.

How's it gonna work out? And. They can be a little bumps along the way, but they do work out. And the hardest thing is gonna be finding that, you know, finding the, those programs, finding the, the, the day programs, the, the work programs and that that'll take work. But 

mm-hmm. 

I'm confident it'll, it'll come and, you know, long term, you know, where's he gonna live?

Where's he, how long is he gonna live with us? Where, where's he gonna be longer term, you know, it is. It's daunting, but you know, I have kind of confidence that all along the way things settle into place. It takes work, it takes termination. But you know, I have that hope. I think from the years of experience thing, seeing that, you know what things work out along the journey and the beauty is like along the way, just finding so many people who've.

Just been willing to share that journey with us, particularly other caregiver givers too. Like I, you know, as I mentioned Cecilia and there's, you know, others, Cole and Jackie, and, you know, Jessica and, uh, you know, who've Jessica's caregiver, Jessica who've been in his life and just, uh, that we aren't alone.

And, um, that's been, uh, helpful and, and I know we won't be alone in the future too. 

I love your optimism. You've always been very, very glass half full, Chris. Very grateful. Any last thing that you wanna say to dads out there, or even moms out there who are listening before you go? 

I think if you're a younger mom, you know, it's like ha.

Have, continue to reach out for that hope that, you know, there is, I. A lot of joy in every moment in the future. And, and also I think a lot of people probably can't relate to you. You see things in your kids that really touch you in profound ways and you know, and I didn't have a chance to talk about the, you know, really the other things that I've seen in Ryan.

But like I mentioned in my story, just there isn't a really powerful, you know, and I've heard from many others who've. Spend time with him, whether some other fren he's run across or even taking him down. You, I've taken him down to local Taphouse and he's gotten to know people there and everybody comments on like, wow, what an amazing kid he is.

You know what? Amazing. Like, uh, you know, even though he just has his diet Coke, but, uh, you know, because he is so engaged, he loves to, he loves to sit down and just have a deep. Conversation with people. Mm-hmm. And with everybody, everybody just runs into, he just wants to have this really engaging, deep conversation and that that's something special.

And it, it, it's actually really paused me. Like, how, how, how does he, you know, able to. To kind of at a deep level touch and connect and, and when he comes back, he'll remember, he'll go back down to the he'll, remember everybody's dog's names and ask about them and what schools they went to, what their favorite, you know, teams were.

And, and ask him, yeah, no. Did you, uh, um, did you get to another Dodger game? You know, and he'll, he'll remember. And um mm-hmm. It shows he's really in tuned to people and, and I think that's something you can find out of every. Um, kid who has a developmental disability. There's, you know, something special in each one of them, um, that you don't always find elsewhere.

And, um, 

and 

those are, you know, sort of the special moments to 

mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. To 

enjoy and the special things to celebrate. 

I love that. And I don't really think I, until the last five years, appreciated more these aspects of Ryan. And I think, you know, for anyone listening, just have your eyes and ears and heart and soul open to seeing really profoundly beautiful traits, words, actions, you know, behaviors that are really unique.

And touching. Joyful. Mm-hmm. Beautiful about your child. It's so easy and I am guilty of like focusing on the challenging and heart and oh my gosh, the anxiety and the behaviors and here we go again. Just make sure every day, every week that you're beauty hunting, beauty hunting in your child. It's there.

It's there. It's there. 

For sure. Absolutely. Well, thank you. Aw, 

thanks Anne. Let's think of another topic and have you come back. 

Oh, yes, I'd love to. 

We should talk about marriage. We've married 28 years. 

Oh my goodness. Amazing. Yeah. 

Yeah. We'll have you back and Happy Father's Day to all the fathers who are listening, the mothers as well.

We see you and. We love you. 

Thank you.

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